UBERcron

[Colt Starling]

Having been away from the game for some time, I've come back to the many many many changes and *class overhalls*.

WTF happened to the PE and why's he so damn uber?

I've seen so many PE's take an absolute beasting with self buffs and manage to slaughter the would be attackers. PP is so damn funny now it's .. well .. funny. The PE seems to be more uber than the tanks these days.

In a personal clash I had with one, from a distance, I cast my beam, over and over on a guy as he come running towards me. No ppu with him, I barely tickle him and he shoots me down in about 10 seconds with his pain erasor. How can my pure APU monk do so little damage to what was once the weakest class in the pack?

And hey, OMFG, I have had to switch religion! I now worship GOD, aka PPU monk.... Jeeezuz, cant I kill anyone these days?

Ach well, I suppose there's always the noobs in the aggy cellars... But hey, three of those feckers killed my an a gank tantrum when I downed their aggy in 2 swoops of my energy beam.

:lol:

If the APU monk has so little defence, why does he not do more damage?

Hey, mabey I'm totally wrong and just have to learn to pvp differently now, but am I the only one who feels like this?

[Dribble Joy]

Aside from the gods (PPUs) things are actually quite balanced at the moment.

PEs do have good defences, partially due to the new PA and the epic chips, but also people now know how to setup chars better than a while ago.
PE offence compared with that of tanks and monks is, quite frankly, pathetic. But their defence balances it. Tanks have decent armour (still way better than an unbuffed PE) and the CS :D APUs do indeed have weak hp but thier armour is quite good really, and the dmg a HL does is INSANE.

[Psycho Killa]

Lol apus are the "uberist" of the uber.

Your using a beam? Get holy lightning and the top of the top pes will be dead in about 8 shots with a damn good rate of fire when capped.

On ppus u have to use a holy anti shelter or antibuff. Removing there shield then immediately switch to a holy lightning and go nuts.

Edit: Um pes have better defense then tanks when (self)buffed....

[Roc-a-fella]

it isnt classes themselves its their imp/templete set ups. Seeing as youve been off neocron (as you said above) for sometime you probobly need a new imp setup and mabye even con setup

[Stigmata]

PE offence compared with that of tanks and monks is, quite frankly, pathetic

maybe monks but tanks ??????

either u have a shitty setup or your doing something wrong

PE's have very very nice dmg and on top of that run around like fucking idiots.

Tanks = stationary damage sponge that cant take much dmg

[Colt Starling]

Looks like I need HL then, and yes, I'm gonna have to look at my con... I just cant wait to start lomming :(

[Shadow Dancer]

Yea PEs are uber. Sometimes I think they have too much defense, sometimes I think they don't. I heard a PE standing can kill a tank standing if their both shooting at each other. I know PEs say that most shots miss, but don't tanks say the same? So what's wrong there?


Anyhow, PE's defense is so good they should have never gotten stealth IMO.


Also, APUs do horrific damage. TRUST me, they do lots of damage. And you should be able to take alot of bursts from pain easer.

[Zanathos]

A Private Eye cannot have as high of resistances as a tank. Smart Private Eyes usually max out piercing and force resistance and balance out fire, energy, x-ray around 90% resistance. Poison resist is 0 because a private eye can outheal poison. (Usually with heal/heal shelter, if needed, medkit)


A tank can have maximum resistances in all their stats except poison.

But they cant heal as fast

[Shadow Dancer]

Regardless, shelter puts their defense over tanks.

[Psycho Killa]

You forget buffs... sure tanks can have a whole 2 percent more natural absorption lol. Then you have heat or hazard boost 1. Not to mention shelter which absorbs twentyfive(not positive) percent of damage after resists i beleive. Not to mention the secret weapon psi shield. Pop pop pop some psi boosters and u got a nice little defensive boost. Pe's by far have better defense AFTER buffs.

[Zanathos]

I didnt debate that, just stated.

Yes Private Eyes can achieve more defence with deflector, shelter, basic resist booster 2.

tanks can cast deflector.

so after that, tanks defences are in fact, lower than a Private Eyes.

Private Eyes might as well be tanks and tanks private eyes.

[Dribble Joy]

Some one has in thier sig a quote by QD, which is roughly as follows:

'It is total bullshit that tanks should have higher defences than PEs.'

Which is true. In order to be balanced with tanks, PEs must have higher defences, as thier offence, while maybe not pathetic compared with that of a tank, is still significantly less.
Tanks simply cannot have higher offence and defence than PEs.

In a straight fire fight, a CS tank vs a PE with libby/judge/blacksun (possibly RoLH, but I dunno), the tank will win, his fast amount of hp and damage that a CS can deal out will beat the PE.
Even with his/her defences a PE is still reliant on thier speed for survival.
I do agree that with the current PE setups, that stealth should either be made spy only or around TC 95-10 for the lvl 1.

An unbuffed PE caught off guard is quite frankly, fucked. tanks and APUs are ready from the get go, PEs have to buff and rebuff.

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Zanathos
A tank can have maximum resistances in all their stats except poison.


Erm, no, they can't. At best you can go 76% absorb on energy and ~72% on fire/xray. You cannot get 76% on all 3, and it is physically impossible for a tank to get higher than 176 armor, which is 75% absorb, on xray, and that is using all 5 gamma bones, shelter boots, medium energyfieldbelt, and 114 xray resist in CON, which will gimp your speed, your stamina, and your fire armor.


@ Dribble: The tank vs PE fight is only balanced when PEs don't use stealth. As soon as you make stealth an option, the PE wins. That means tank vs PE duel is a tank win, tank vs PE in a realistic fight is a PE win. Either make stealth spy only or PE defence has to come down. And I would much rather not have every PE have to fight like a spy. Also worth pointing out, is that PEs are extremely rarely unbuffed. The argument that an unbuffed PE is weaker than an unbuffed tank carries no weight since no self-respecting PE ever fights when he has no buffs, also a PE who doesn't constantly recast his buffs outside of a safezone is frankly stupid. If a PE gets caught off guard he should at least have his shelter and deflector on, which is ample time to stealth away. And PEs can also poke without gimping themselves.

[Psycho Killa]

I think pes should be able to keep the 10 second stealth. After all tanks do have aoe. Though i do think pes> tanks now and thats not how it should be.

Honestly if u put 100%!! of your characters points into fighting then I think that it should be

Tank = pe = spy = monk (Depending on different scenarios)

Example... spy beats tank snipering a mile away... tank gets close he obliterates spy.

Tanks armor needs a major beefing up and perhaps up the 76 cap up a bit maybe for tanks to like 84 there TANKS for crying out loud and pes have nastier d then them. Hell pes have nasty armor thanks to int bmuch better armor choices thanks to psi and int armor. (That idea might not work but something should be changed thats for sure.)

[Dribble Joy]

Did I not say I thought that stealth should be spy or gimped PE only?

Anyway, it's not so much the being caught of guard, it's that when the buffs run out the PE has virtually no option but to let it. And Tanks with thier gun away will run at least as fast as a PE, all the while taking pot shots. A monk can pic them off while they run with no problem.
But yes, being in a non-safety zone sans buffs is dumb, but you never know when they will fail on you.

Other than that I agree with you.
Only pistol PEs can poke as well.

//edit psyco, pe>tank is not how it is. A tank vs a PE, each with equal skill and setup, the tank will win the majority of the time. A PEs speed is not enough when the tank can aim.

[Scikar]

The problem is if you make PEs rely on their stealth then you turn them into spies, only spies will do the job better. Tank AoE is hardly anything to be proud of - "Hey look at me, I can shoot rockets which never land anywhere near where I'm aiming and can easily be outhealed by a PPU. You get to turn invisible, and by extension 95% invulnerable, for 10 seconds. Which one is better?"

[\\Fényx//]

Originally posted by stigmata
maybe monks but tanks ??????

either u have a shitty setup or your doing something wrong

PE's have very very nice dmg and on top of that run around like fucking idiots.

Tanks = stationary damage sponge that cant take much dmg

w0rd :p

Tanks are the suckiest of the lot IMO

[Psycho Killa]

Well the tanks aoe need fixing i neglected to mention that.


Though it is in my experience (depending on place) that a smart pe will win. The pe can heal easily during fight they can practicaly runcast heal (not at top speed). Also its not hard to recast shelter either. Only problem is if u lost all ur buffs around the same time then ur in a world of trouble.

[dmon99]

lets look at those dj oh by the way this is jack torse



tanks have the cs and gat
nothing else matters


pes have the black sun,ray of god
pain easer, ray of last hope, beam of hell

and even the non rare pulse laser pistol and laser pistol
all thes i have seen are viable options in pvp


with weapons drawn pe's dance and tanks sing the turret song
unless they are melee then the just die a little slower


so for offense i think the pe wins as the can quickly avoid the tanks aim while hitting him with almost every shot.

in my opinion the tank is carrying a cannon right next to his face basically looking down the side of his weapon that reticle should close almost instantly when a target is aquired


defense: sure a pes resists donk go as high as a tanks but with the abilities to shelter and deflector and runcast blessed heal and stealth yes i believe the pe also has more options in the defense area as well
PE'S = The new unholy hybrid

rifle pe's especially as that ray of god does insane damage in 2-3 shots they just have more versatility in combat


with a tank this is what its like:


ok he's shooting me , he's shooting me, he's shooting me, ok i got aim lock, shit i lost it, running, running, spam a few shots without aim lock, hit a stamina booster, ok now i got em, i hit em, i hit em,dammat he's runcasting heal ,shit im dead,


also another thing that is just stupid annoying is the hit to athl with hc-pa on thats just stooooooopid... we already get that hit when we draw our weapons why the hell do we have to take an athl hit they either need to take out the athl hit or take out the weapon drawn runspeed hit with all the para spam out there its just insane tanx just need to have a serious look taken at them by kk not just with weapons but also the balancing if we have to be that damn slow then at least boost our defenses a bit to match our inability to heal quickly

[Spectra260]

rofl, sorry i stoped reading everything after this

"the PE seems to be more uber than the tanks these days(or how ever you said it)


im still laughing:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


tanks are one of the worst classes now, its funny it went from tankocron to this....


yea, you can tell youve been away for some time now...:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
And Tanks with thier gun away will run at least as fast as a PE, all the while taking pot shots.


Read this sentence again Dribble.



Anyways, I do think PEs>Tanks right now and it shouldn't be that way. But statements like "Tanks suck right now" or "their not viable" or "their the worst class ATM" is beyond exaggeration.

[Dribble Joy]

Jack, Tanks arn't as slow as people make out, movement and dodging are more important anyway.
Djingo, slut and all the good tanks on Uranus can make any good PE really have to focus to try and hit them.
Yes PEs have more diversity (they will be loosing the RoLH soon as a serious weapon for anything other than a utter druggie in nf)
But it doenst give them anything, why have 10 guns when you can use 2?

Tank aim isn't that bad, They dont loose mouse sensitivity, just run speed.
Tanks can aim just a well as PEs and the CS recticle lock once gained is virtually imposible to shake off.
A tank with good aim will shred any PE that comes his way.
Again, I'll say that I think stealth is not a PE item.
Tanks can heal too btw.
Don't wear PA in combat :p They should put it back to -dex and AGl anyway.

[Dribble Joy]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Read this sentence again Dribble.


hahahahahahaha sorry, yeah, my mistake. :p

[rubaduckythug]

I got to say PE's are quite godly these days, and i agree with the whole -ath + - runspeed with wep drawn on top of that having monks para you its just sad, tanks are now no more then a sentry gun with a cs, alhtough a sentry gun dosnt miss shots... with my shitty 8 FPS :( i spend most my fights trying to follow my oponent with my mouse while being blasted to oblivion, tanks have pretty nice resist but PE's are right up there these days with the new PE armor and buffs ect... Also wut good would a 1 shot kill be if you cant even scroll your mouse around fast enough to catch your aponent :(

[Colt Starling]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Some one has in thier sig a quote by QD, which is roughly as follows:

'It is total bullshit that tanks should have higher defences than PEs.'

Which is true. In order to be balanced with tanks, PEs must have higher defences, as thier offence, while maybe not pathetic compared with that of a tank, is still significantly less.
Tanks simply cannot have higher offence and defence than PEs.



Why need balance? Is it not normal to assume that a tank is designed for battle and should be more powerful than a PE.

Why should the PE be balanced with a tank? If that was the case then there should be only tanks.

This fantasy that all classes should be equal is very waped.

[Dribble Joy]

Erm... why?

Without balance, no one would play any of the 'weak' classes.
This is a MMORPG, not a FPS.
All classes should be able to achieve the same things, but via different methods, those that suit you.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Colt Starling

This fantasy that all classes should be equal is very waped.



Why is that warped? You can be equal but different. No one said they had to be equal in the exact same way. Like a tank would have kickass offense and defense, and kick ass in combat that way. And the spy would have bad defense, but godly sniping capabilities(which they don't have ATM imo).


Well IMO.

[Psycho Killa]

WTF this is an rpg with 4 classes.

Why should one be better then the others? I just dont fucking get it.

They all should be better then one another in there own unique ways and strategies.

And the excuse that tanks where built for battle is fucking old. If it was that way there would be no reason to play another class.

[Colt Starling]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Erm... why?

Without balance, no one would play any of the 'weak' classes.
This is a MMORPG, not a FPS.
All classes should be able to achieve the same things, but via different methods, those that suit you.

Why's that then?

PE was designed to be a jack of all trades. Able to do a little of everything. They are our constructors, repair guys, ressers, etc etc.

And your absolutely right m8, this is a MMORGP FFS and not a FPS. most FPS's I know like CS etc, the players tend to have a same set up but with different weapons. In a 'role play' game, I expectr to erm *cough* role play a character. So if I chose to play a technical role, I go PE or spy, if I wanna fight pvp, I chose a combat related char

WTF should every class be same in combat?

The PE has stealth to get out of hot situations, and it's a great tool. Why do we need the PE to be uber pvp?

I speak from all sides of the fence here. I got monk, tank, and PE.

I juts dont see any reason for pvp balance. IMO, a tank should be able to kill a PE in a heart beat. That is just IMO of course

[Psycho Killa]

Lol yea right a pe constructing or ressing my ass. You know damn well thats not going to happen.

If one person takes a pe and one a tank. Each devotes every single skill point he has to being the best they can possibly be at pvp. Why then should one be that much better then the other. Yes pes have stealth this will help them win fights. This is what im talking about different classes should have different advantages. The pe can stealth when in danger cast a heal then go back into action. Where as the tank cant heal as good this will help balance the tanks natural superiority in face to face combat.

If a tank beats a pe in a heart beat WHY BE A FUCKING PE? Youll run into the problem we have now with monks. Everyone and there mother has a monk now. Do you really wanna play a game with all tanks and or all monks?

[Psycho Killa]

Stupid lagged forum...

[Dribble Joy]

You forget that PE are not 'normal' people.
Normal people are the lvl 20 weaklings behind the counter at A&W.
A capped PE is a kin to a member of the SAS, or an action hero from a film, they are BRICK SHIT HARD.
A tank stands, what? 7 feet tall, and can lift a car. He can heave a fucking cannon to his shoulder. Tanks are dumb, BEYOND dumb, they follow order blindly and were sent as massproduction, disposable waves of infantry.

[Colt Starling]

Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Lol yea right a pe constructing or ressing my ass. You know damn well thats not going to happen.

If one person takes a pe and one a tank. Each devotes every single skill point he has to being the best they can possibly be at pvp. Why then should one be that much better then the other. Yes pes have stealth this will help them win fights. This is what im talking about different classes should have different advantages. The pe can stealth when in danger cast a heal then go back into action. Where as the tank cant heal as good this will help balance the tanks natural superiority in face to face combat.

If a tank beats a pe in a heart beat WHY BE A FUCKING PE? Youll run into the problem we have now with monks. Everyone and there mother has a monk now. Do you really wanna play a game with all tanks and or all monks?

So the PE stealth out, Uber heals in a corner, returns and finishes of the tank who cant heal to save his own ass!

Now that's what I call balance. :D But of course, the little PE should be able to kick a tanks arse. Right?

So let me get this right in my head. NOT only can a PE inflict a great amount of damage now, but even, and i stress the word even, if you do happen to gain the advantage, the little feker can vanish into thin air. As I say m8.. nice balance



Lol yea right a pe constructing or ressing my ass.

Read the manual

[Dribble Joy]

Originally posted by Colt Starling
Read the manual

Can't believe you said that.
The manual is so totally out of date.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Colt Starling

Read the manual



That's the problem, you're reading the manual.

[Colt Starling]

What I refer to is what each class was supposed to be in this game.

PE's were not supposed to be pvp chars. Whether they are now or not is not the point.

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
You forget that PE are not 'normal' people.
Normal people are the lvl 20 weaklings behind the counter at A&W.
A capped PE is a kin to a member of the SAS, or an action hero from a film, they are BRICK SHIT HARD.
A tank stands, what? 7 feet tall, and can lift a car. He can heave a fucking cannon to his shoulder. Tanks are dumb, BEYOND dumb, they follow order blindly and were sent as massproduction, disposable waves of infantry.


That's from the manual too. You can't say in one breath that PEs aren't average citizens and then say tanks are only supposed to be good in large numbers.

If a capped PE is akin to an SAS soldier, then surely a capped tank is akin to a Terminator? How do you manage to equate that PEs are like SAS soldiers therefore they should be better armored than a 7 ft tall human tank built like a brick shithouse wearing 2 inch thick ceramic armor?

I'm not saying PEs shouldn't have the defence they have now (aside from stealth), but what you just said did not justify it one bit.

[Dribble Joy]

I was refering to colts comment that a tank should be able to break a PE in two with a flick of the wrist.
Which he could. But the PE is faster and much smarter than the tank.
PEs aren't better armoured than tanks, it's only Psi that does this.
Personally, I don't think that tanks are as 'uber' as people think if they were in RL. They are less than twice as strong as a normal person can be, same again with thier physical thoughness. They really are very dumb.


Originally posted by Scikar
That's from the manual too. You can't say in one breath that PEs aren't average citizens and then say tanks are only supposed to be good in large numbers

Why not? PEs/Spys would be used as infiltration/sabotage/ and other speciallist roles. Tanks are the replacable foot soldiers for a giant army juggernaught. And I didn't say that PEs are average citizens, I thought I made that clear O_o.

[Psycho Killa]

Basing game balance on a manual or storyline is fucking retarded no ifs and or buts.




According to the manual/storyline.

Cranh where thrown out by the citizens.... who where these citizens? Pes i would assume. So if they can storm cranh hq with plasma pistols in hand and force out the strong psionic monks why cant they compete with a tank?

And who the fuck said stealth away and use there uber heal. I was saying straight face to face yes the tank should beat the pe. Though using tactics like running away and healing up should make it so the pe has close to a 50 50 shot.

Not to mention a tank can heal. Whats this a tank cant heal for shit comment. A tank can heal just as well as a pe (Really close i havent used a tank in a while but im leveling a spy. I have 9 psi power and just a 2 slotter and i get close to 500 percent on my heal. So I kno with additional slots and another psi level i can damn well cap or come close to capping a heal meaning a tank can do the same.

If kk wanted pes to do other stuff then combat they would not have introduced speziliation.



ALSO Theyre redoing the manual completely since it is so redicuously out of date. There should be a new one with DOY.



Originally posted by Colt Starling
PE's were not supposed to be pvp chars. Whether they are now or not is not the point.
Where talking about game balance today and what kk enviosined when they first went about it is a moot point. They have obviously long since changed directions with the pe (Pre retail even)

[Dribble Joy]

Exactly.
I believe that at the moment, barring the PPU problems, game balance is fine/needs little tweaking.
If it aint broke don't fix it.
Lets concentrate on what does need our attention.

[Marzola]

Ok, saying that a PE's defense is weaker than a tank's defense because they have to buff up to get that defense is complete BS. What PE doesn't buff up for combat? That's like saying a PPU snaps like a twig because he has to buff up. Anyone who doesn't include psi buffs into a con setup is an idiot. And a well setup PE can have a better defenses than a tank including psi buffs, being able to runcast heal (or stagger cast atleast) and stealth.