View Full Version : Killing PPU's
Ok so we did a bit of op works last night, and on 2 ops only a ppu come out of the wood works....Fully buffed and all.
I agree it was a 2 minute job killing them, but they died. I was left with a sense similiar to that of Hary Potter when Finding the hurt / Dead Unicorn ... How can something so pure die ?
--Waits for the flames --
Just a feeling no more, no less
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 14:47
lol... i personally catch them when rezzing... got 2 in my last op war >.<
If you're lucky you catch a PPU when the heal spell won't cast.
It has happened to me a couple of times and you're basically screwed.
Went out to CRP on Pluto a week or two ago, bored, feeling like annoying some TG people.. so I found some, and stood there... 2 APUs and one Tank started their thing, so I healed and ran... sort of... away... Then I died cause my heal refused to fire....
It's annoying yes, but who am I to complain.. the FF APUs were very good nevertheless :)
..and I was less bored afterwards :)
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:02
that or be a cunt and heal him lol
s/d too if your really mean (although he shouldnt live long enough to self cast s/d)
I never have a problem killing most PPUs at OP fights, and dont know why people whine so much. I guess APU antibuffs help though...Theres just so many PPUs, thats the only problem O_o
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:08
against a prepaired PPU 1 on 1 i stand no chance >.< i know cos i have tried with a mates PPU (99 base Psi iirc)
btw im a pistol spy /w fully capped lib
however w/o heal it takes 3/4 of a clip lol
shodanjr_gr
25-11-03, 15:10
Well, from my personal experience as a PPU (rank 60/58) i have discovered that the only time when i have actually died was when all my buffs ran out at the same time. That left me with around 250hp and no S/D on. If u r hammered by enugh opponents, holy heal cant keep u alive long enugh to rebuff and u die pretty easily. Also i seem to be quite vulnerable to Force moded weapons (although that could be beacuse i had forgoten an XP controlelr 3 plug in mah head...)
Killing a PPU isnt the problem (not that its easy), rez and para are the problem.
You kill PPU 1, move onto PPU 2, PPU 3 rez's PPU 1, PPU 1 and 3 rez their entire team, oh look PPU 2 is down I'd better go rez him...
SigmaDraconis
25-11-03, 15:16
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
Killing a PPU isnt the problem (not that its easy), rez and para are the problem.
You kill PPU 1, move onto PPU 2, PPU 3 rez's PPU 1, PPU 1 and 3 rez their entire team, oh look PPU 2 is down I'd better go rez him...
lol so true..so true, anyway ive gotten past my previous complaints of rezzing..learned to deal with it..its easy to take care of if you pay attn... para is still 100% fucked.... and theyve really not killed it...yet killed the rez..figures
Never had a problem with PPU's rezzing mid fight HAB takes less than 3 seconds to cast rez takes 6 or 7 if i remember, plenty of time to antibuff and kill while they Rez
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:19
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Well, from my personal experience as a PPU (rank 60/58) i have discovered that the only time when i have actually died was when all my buffs ran out at the same time. That left me with around 250hp and no S/D on. If u r hammered by enugh opponents, holy heal cant keep u alive long enugh to rebuff and u die pretty easily. Also i seem to be quite vulnerable to Force moded weapons (although that could be beacuse i had forgoten an XP controlelr 3 plug in mah head...)
/me strokes his fully capped explosive liberator
I mainly hate that they can outheal most damage, and that it doesn't really matter if I kill anyone accompanied by a PPU because they'll just spring back to life when they get a ressurect...
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:26
dont let them heal... heal them... shoot them... do something :p
shodanjr_gr
25-11-03, 15:27
Originally posted by TheEnemy
I mainly hate that they can outheal most damage, and that it doesn't really matter if I kill anyone accompanied by a PPU because they'll just spring back to life when they get a ressurect...
Well, outhealing is a trade of because we can be outdamage by a dead drom for all that matters. Also rezzing is part of our job. All u can do is to concentrate fire on the guy we are rezzing. Or if u concentrate enugh fire on the PPU while he is rezzing, u may detter him (he cant rezz and heal at the same time). So plz dont go screaming again asking KK to nerf our heals and stuff :-)
@NC_Junkie When the fick are we gona play some TS??? I dled it especially for u :-)
Well, they do die to 5 libbi's and a capped RolH though... But then again who doesnt?
Rezzing is a problem. When you're at an op fight for example, when you're dead you should be dead :)
Who will win is then actually dependent on team efforts and skill.
What about the rez times on the test server? How do they seem. I did only try my melee tank last time.
Rez should not by any means be taken out of the game. When you're mob hunting it's essential. The role of rezzing in fights should be toned down a lot however.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:31
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
@NC_Junkie When the fick are we gona play some TS??? I dled it especially for u :-)
not while im at work! lol
er... possibly at like 6 tonight if we are both on IRC :p
me and ste-x are the uber ppu killers.
admitedly we may have used lame tactics in the past but hey if it works it works. The 3 best tangent ppu's fell by my HL, FA and poison beam on sunday night.....with a little help from a bad crahn heal spell cast by none other than seer.
Alternatively rizzy's hybrid can take them down by giving them crahn heal and shelter then HL'in them
Master of Lame:D
MjukisDjur
25-11-03, 15:50
antibuff??
I'd like to quote someone who will remain nameless at TH last nite while i was running through THSC's never ending army of pe's and spy's
"NOOB BUFF HIM"
"NOOB BUFF HIM"
"NOOB BUFF HIM HE HATES THAT"
/set all pe's start casting standard shelter 1
/set time to leave 1
MjukisDjur
25-11-03, 16:17
Think everybody came to whack us :/
We were only there for a nice cup of hot coco but nooo, people had to start shooting everywhere we went...
damn english
APU Anti-buff's PPU. PPU casts holy heal. PE casts noobie shelter. Oh crap says Mr PPU, before falling to the floor stone cold dead.
I'm still trying to work out a defence to that one (assuming I'm on my own as the PPU). If you shelter first the holy lightning will get you, if you heal first you can't re-shelter before the PE casts theirs. Either way the PPU dies.
I don't object to noob buffs when I'm PPUing, it seems like a sensible use of the tools available...but it does annoy me that I can't find a way to beat them without resorting to the slightly underhand defence....
APU starts to cast anti-buff. PPU pulls out 5 slot nailgun. PPU uses said pistol to stop the anti-buff cast. PPU swaps to fully capped TL 20 pistol. PPU kills APU in about 16 rounds.
I don't like to use the nailgun to stop spell casts, it does seem a bit lame that a TL 5 (ish) pistol can push around a capped monkey. On the otherhand I hate to die.
When's the server back up, I can whitter on like this for hours.
ZoneVortex
25-11-03, 17:07
With my old fulleh capzed tank I killed numerous PPUs with the following strategery:
TL 3 Heal
Poison modded flame thrower point blank (More damge) for a few seconds
Finish them off with gat while they can't heal and are being fucked by poison.
Killed....atleast 5 in a week or two in PP battles with this.
Edit:
Oh oh and to kill PPUs with my PE...
basic store bought deflector sanctum
tl 3 heal if I can get it in, but not neccessary
damage boost
Explosive liberator up the ass
And if I have a buddy with me I have him/her use parashock ball or a nailgun to ruin the casting of spells (Yes it helps)
Im pretty damn impressed here right now. Not one super whiner so far :).
maby some ppl have realised the fact that with tactics a ppu can be taken down. It's not easy and the way ppu's work it should not be easy especially if the ppu knows what it's doing. 1on1 situations there should be a looooot of luck or spells fucking up if the ppu should be able to get killed in one of thoose situations.
Even harder if the para is removed and all that. cause then you have nothing to get you out of the situation, except moving to gr.
There wasnt that much problems in op wars maby with ppu's ressing but it was a problem in skirmish fights and so on 2on1 situations. so the longer ress time is to ease that up. I would rather see a change like ppu cant have heal on while ressing except for heal sanct so you get some health back when pvm ressing. That way a capped lib could hurt so much that a ress isnt worth the risk maby.
And the para needs to get tweaked or totaly removed. Cause the lower rof dont help the folks that gets frozen, and it dont help much in team vs fucking flapper birds that annoys you.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 17:12
hard? pfft... shove a moonie into his legs and a lib into his temple and watch him buckle!
The second you see a PPU rezzing in an op fight do this:
1. Abandon your fighting
2. Start running towards the PPU
3. Scream: "ALL PIERCING ATTACK PPU NOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!1 in your voicecomm.
4. TL3 heal the PPU
5. Begin shooting him while all your friends come running blazing with lib/PE/Gat/HL/whatever
6. Say in TradeNC: "I KILLED A PPU YOU N0000B!3S!!!"
7. Look at your hp and realise you have none left
8. Drop dead because all your friends focused the PPU and forgetting they were getting killed hard by 10+ APUs and serveral other PPUs paraspamming them
9. Look around in "dead-mode" to see all your friends lying on the floor.
10. Look around again seeing a PPU rezzing you while 2 APUs start flexing their HL
11. GR
Or whatever..I'm bored, NC back on plz ;)
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 17:24
lol its back i think (im at work though)
shodanjr_gr
25-11-03, 18:23
OK ill rant :-)
I consider TL3 healing a ppu to be a lame tactic (i also consider paraspaming a lame tactict though).
And i have this to ask. If the ability to paraspam was removed (increase spell cost, decrease ROF, reduce paraspam damage) would u guys give up ur ability to TL3 Heal PPUs???And noob shelter/deflect em that is...
Since we are gona have no-offence at all, we should get /set god_mode 1
All im asking for is the ability to cast my buffs over other buffs peeps give me.
<edit> hm...that Needle gun/Uzi tactic sounds nice. Seems its time to lom :-)
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Well, outhealing is a trade of because we can be outdamage by a dead drom for all that matters. Also rezzing is part of our job. All u can do is to concentrate fire on the guy we are rezzing. Or if u concentrate enugh fire on the PPU while he is rezzing, u may detter him (he cant rezz and heal at the same time). So plz dont go screaming again asking KK to nerf our heals and stuff :-)
Rezzing is fine as long as I can kill the rezzer so he can't bring his mates back to life right in front of me after I kill them... easier said than done.
Holy Antibuff + Tl 25 shelter = dead ppu :P
why does everybody believe that pierce/force is a ppus/apus weakness?
actually monks who don't rely on transport/exp psi 3 have better pierce/force resists
than fire/xray (unbuffed)
when buffed those resists are about equal
i know, holy deflector absorbs a little bit less damage than holy shelter, but energy
weapons dish out more damage than projectile ones
most tactics described here require the ppu to stand still and wait for his doom 8|
The ideal PPU killing team is a PPU+APU+PE. PPU dmg boost+para spams, PE tl-3 heals and shelters, APU de-buffs and does primary dmg.
I think the antibuff / antiheal etc should have a lasting effect at least for a few seconds, otherwise the PPU just casts the spell again in no time, resulting in the need for low TL versions of the spells which seems illogical to me (healing/shielding a PPU in order to kill them).
Originally posted by TheEnemy
I think the antibuff / antiheal etc should have a lasting effect at least for a few seconds, otherwise the PPU just casts the spell again in no time, resulting in the need for low TL versions of the spells which seems illogical to me (healing/shielding a PPU in order to kill them).
In return the APU throwing the spell can not cast another spell for a few second, else class imbalance.
My understanding is apu vs ppu PPU should be able to survive a single apu attack, in return the PPU cant attack .....
So if a PPU meets an apu in a dark ally, they would do some dancing and both walk out happy....
ALSO
The ideal PPU killing team is a PPU+APU+PE. PPU dmg boost+para spams, PE tl-3 heals and shelters, APU de-buffs and does primary dmg. ...
The PE can be replaced by a tank too, as he can also throw tl 3 heals
Originally posted by Crest
In return the APU throwing the spell can not cast another spell for a few second, else class imbalance.
My understanding is apu vs ppu PPU should be able to survive a single apu attack, in return the PPU cant attack .....
So if a PPU meets an apu in a dark ally, they would do some dancing and both walk out happy....
ALSO
The ideal PPU killing team is a PPU+APU+PE. PPU dmg boost+para spams, PE tl-3 heals and shelters, APU de-buffs and does primary dmg. ...
The PE can be replaced by a tank too, as he can also throw tl 3 heals
or just use apu x2 and one ppu for paraspam... no need to toy with shelters and such shit
Lads theres lots of ideas here when they should be in the monk balancing thread in the Test forum. Right now all I see is germans there, if we end up with some borked monks in a couple of months cause of what the germans said you cant complain cause you didnt post there when asked.
I'd suggest all those with ideas on how to fix some of the issues with PPUs copy and past into a reply here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81821).
I just want to see monks nerfed (yes even my beloved PPU), I don't much care about the details of how they do it :)
Four of us went to the Apparition caves, just me as PPU and 3 tanks. We cleared it 3 times running without any real effort. It was cool the first time (as the last time I'd gone there several months ago I'd got my ass handed to me), a bit dull the second, and patently silly the 3rd. No way should four people be able to clear a cave like that.
Nerf the PPU! :p
Just make sure you nerf the apu at the same time. Or just create a balanced hybrid, then being a pure ppu would be a rarity and people would actually be pleased to see one as opposed to just expecting them to drop everything and help them hunt/level/etc. :mad:
Originally posted by MrChumble
Four of us went to the Apparition caves, just me as PPU and 3 tanks. We cleared it 3 times running without any real effort.
You a capped PPU? How about the tanks? I wasn't able to get into the cave long enough for my buffs to protect me. How are you able to get from the water tunnel inside so safely?
The point everyone is missing that once a PPU has thier buffs removed (or thier ability to put them back) they are just a meatsack waiting to die.
PPU should be hard to kill by thier very nature (they also shouldn't be able to hurt other players to the point where they are easy to be killed, just warned off), however they should not be able to extend that hardness onto others (at least not to the same level). Para adjustments and the Rez adjust both seem to take this into account.
Jesterthegreat
26-11-03, 15:48
Originally posted by Archeus
PPU should be hard to kill by thier very nature
i realise KK have gone the route of PPU's doin little damage... however plz name one other MMORPG where healers are near unkillable? seriouslly... cos i must be missing whatever other games have that setup...
MjukisDjur
26-11-03, 15:57
I hope we all could agree that it shouldnt take 3+ people and low lvl buffs to kill a ppu though :)
As it is now you can outheal hmm is it 3 or 4 copbots and that is a bit much imop.
2 capped players with maximum damage should be able to scratch the damn thing
last time my ppu died PvP...was a fatal run time error:rolleyes:
Jesterthegreat
26-11-03, 16:11
lol
where i think PPUs should be hard to kill... i dont think they should be unkillable by 1 or 2 people.
PPU's outheal my capped lib. now while i wouldnt say they should be shit - i think they should be soloable. this is my personal opinion and every PPU out there will hate it.
i am NOT saying give them APU defences. i am saying leave them as best defence in the game! however IMHO they should be killable by a single person - even if it takes a long time. besides they can easily HP me and run :p
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
lol
where i think PPUs should be hard to kill... i dont think they should be unkillable by 1 or 2 people.
PPU's outheal my capped lib. now while i wouldnt say they should be shit - i think they should be soloable. this is my personal opinion and every PPU out there will hate it.
i am NOT saying give them APU defences. i am saying leave them as best defence in the game! however IMHO they should be killable by a single person - even if it takes a long time. besides they can easily HP me and run :p
And In return if you kill a PPU ... Since he cant kill you, mebbe you just comit suicide ?
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
i am NOT saying give them APU defences. i am saying leave them as best defence in the game! however IMHO they should be killable by a single person - even if it takes a long time. besides they can easily HP me and run :p
Yeah, I think they should have no choice but to run off eventually if left without any damage dealing people to support them. Right now they can just stand still and out-heal the damage that anyone does to them.
Jesterthegreat
26-11-03, 16:25
Originally posted by Crest
And In return if you kill a PPU ... Since he cant kill you, mebbe you just comit suicide ?
a 0/2 tank hc tank cant kill me with his grenades... but i dont expect HIM to have god mode O_o
of course the best option would to make hybrids viable and balanced
DAoC -
Albian - Clerics (heal, buff, smite)
Midgard - Shamans (heal, buff, cave magic)
Hibernia - Bard - (heal, buff, crowd control / DD [direct damage - APU])
there are 3 healie classes per realm but i dont remember them all :p
now im not saying make this game a daoc clone at all... but making PPU's god like is just stupid! why cant APU's shoot bullets out of the air? why can monks only manage either PAU or PPU effectively?
ok its a bitch to master multiple things... but wouldnt that mean choosing buffs or healing? Fire magic (psi) or energy magic (psi)? if anyone uses this forced specialisation as an arguement they gotta take it the whole way
I am so sick of seeing the bull shit
Tl3 heal / Noob shelter + xyz = dead PPU
The proper answer is:
Antibuff and some tactics/skill = DEAD PPU.
No lame ass noob buffing bullshit. Its so weak - why is there a TL 100+ spell to debuff if a noob spell works better, answer is its a mistake that KK needs to fix. I say fix this game bug where higher TL spells dont over write lower spells and axe the lamer game play before any PPU nerfs are done. And for the record i am not a PPU and dont have a PPU on any account at all.
I do however believe that gaming should be about fun not winning by any means.
Sako
its much harder to kill a ppu with newb buffs than with anti buff soo dont feed us that shit
Jesterthegreat
26-11-03, 16:33
Originally posted by Sako
I am so sick of seeing the bull shit
Tl3 heal / Noob shelter + xyz = dead PPU
The proper answer is:
Antibuff and some tactics/skill = DEAD PPU.
No lame ass noob buffing bullshit. Its so weak - why is there a TL 100+ spell to debuff if a noob spell works better, answer is its a mistake that KK needs to fix. I say fix this game bug where higher TL spells dont over write lower spells and axe the lamer game play before any PPU nerfs are done. And for the record i am not a PPU and dont have a PPU on any account at all.
I do however believe that gaming should be about fun not winning by any means.
Sako
so you should need an APU to kill a PPU?
oh yay... bring on PPU's stalking the hunting spots with an uzi and being unkillable to all but APU's O_o
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
but making PPU's god like is just stupid!
A capped pure PPU should be almost godlike, certainly not killable by one person. However when capped they should not be able to do any damage to the attacker whatsoever. So some kind of serious penalty for PPUs that dilute thier skills to include combat (like pistols).
Para/Rez already addressed. So the other other thing is Soul Clusters. Have them for monsters that they can attack them, but for players they have random effects like..
- Very Minor damage.
- Throws the victim around the place (like a souped up nail gun round)
- Causes minor drug effects
- Swirls around the victim closely absorbing any attacks they are trying to do.
These aren't fatal but does warn off the attacker from pissing the PPU off and makes it harder to kill them.
Jesterthegreat
26-11-03, 16:50
how can anyone be for making a character almost god like?
this is a major imbalance. i know some people arent gonna like that term used here... but i dont care.
in no way is it balanced to have a god like character that can heal, buff, freeze and resserect.
in ANY game... give me god like defences and piss poor attack and i will never lose a fight. thats what imbalances it. the low attack does not make it dair cos in teams it means nothing.
hell in a 1 on 1 - PPU vs APU - PPU should always win. you can get heal / shelter / deflecter up before enough damages is caused... that or holy para him and hide for long enough to buff / heal. and you think this is right?
u can scratch freeze and rez with the new patch within a month.
well mostly
and if u are trying to completely kill a class such as ppu's then go ahead with ur make them as easy to kill as a spy and soloable.
It is only if u are a good ppu that u can survive lots of people. With my apu i can solo ppu's already its not tough if u know what ur doing and u and ur team have co-ordination.
As for noob buffing i am all for using tl3 heals they are a good tactic and only if ur a good ppu can u survive this. but when it comes to pe's running round with sanctums and enemy ppu's running round casting standard shelter on u and on all the people u rez i disagree with.
If u nerf ppu's ability to survive then u can also nerf pe's and spy's stealth and tanks ability to take dmg because in effect u want to take all defenses away from everyone.
Originally posted by Candaman
but when it comes to pe's running round with sanctums and enemy ppu's running round casting standard shelter on u and on all the people u rez i disagree with.
Casting tl3 heal or the noob shelter on people that aren't even a ppu is the only thing i don't like. On pluto you got this one clan that complains about not knowing how to kill ppus and the only way is to cast tl 3 or noob shelter on them, well fine I don't mind that. But going around and casting them on non ppus is what pisses me off. Especially when they have like 5 or 6 ppus and half of them just go running around casting shit spells on people after they get rezzed.
Jesterthegreat
26-11-03, 17:18
Originally posted by Candaman
u can scratch freeze and rez with the new patch within a month.
i havent been on the test server since that patch :([.quote]
and if u are trying to completely kill a class such as ppu's then go ahead with ur make them as easy to kill as a spy and soloable.
[/quote] *sigh* i said leave them hard to kill not make them easy to kill... and with a decent setup a spy is very hard to kill
It is only if u are a good ppu that u can survive lots of people. With my apu i can solo ppu's already its not tough if u know what ur doing and u and ur team have co-ordination.
you solo PPU's - its not hard with team coordination? do we have different opinions on what the word solo means here?
As for noob buffing i am all for using tl3 heals they are a good tactic and only if ur a good ppu can u survive this. but when it comes to pe's running round with sanctums and enemy ppu's running round casting standard shelter on u and on all the people u rez i disagree with.
personally i would like to see high tl spells override low tl spells. however although using a tl3 heal on a ppu may be seen as lame - so is using a piercing weapon on a PPU / kami'd class etc :p
If u nerf ppu's ability to survive then u can also nerf pe's and spy's stealth and tanks ability to take dmg because in effect u want to take all defenses away from everyone.
nerf a 10 second stealth? i agree there should be a reuse time of 10-15 seconds between stealths. nerf a tanks ability to take damage? 1. PE is better at this 2. its not like they have any real advantages except resists / health.
i am not talking about removing defences... i still want them to be the best... but this godlike stuff takes it too far IMHO
stealth needs a tweak such as re use timer - i am a spy before anyone asks, i am not biased. however PPU defence needs a tweak too (as does APU range - was that included on TS patch? so long since i read the notes)
Junkie
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
how can anyone be for making a character almost god like?
this is a major imbalance. i know some people arent gonna like that term used here... but i dont care.
You cannot compare PPUs to clerics in other MMORPGs as while the others were a support class they also had means to defend themselves. Currently the contention for PPUS now is that they can defend themselves (and hurt back). So you can either leave them the ability to hurt others (Para/Rez) while weakening thier shields or the reverse. To do both (which some people want) would mean to just throw the class away.
in no way is it balanced to have a god like character that can heal, buff, freeze and resserect.
PPUs are not godlike. They are hard to kill, but at the same time they can't fight back with anything that will kill quickly enough.
in ANY game... give me god like defences and piss poor attack and i will never lose a fight.
You will never win one either. Seriously Unless I have firepower support I cannot do squat to another person unless I am well above thier level or they lack the two brain cells to think how to stop me. This will certainly be more the case when para is nerfed in the coming patch.
hell in a 1 on 1 - PPU vs APU - PPU should always win.
Depends on how you define winning. In a PPU vs APU they should cancel each other out, the APU unable to do enough damage to hurt the PPU and the PPU should be unable to kill the APU.
So PPU should be hard to kill, should not be able to extend that ability fully to others and should not be able to inflict critical damage to other players (this is a Pure PPU now). They should also get negative effects for classing away from a pure (eg. Gun Clerics).
Originally posted by Sako
I am so sick of seeing the bull shit
Tl3 heal / Noob shelter + xyz = dead PPU
The proper answer is:
Antibuff and some tactics/skill = DEAD PPU.
No lame ass noob buffing bullshit. Its so weak - why is there a TL 100+ spell to debuff if a noob spell works better, answer is its a mistake that KK needs to fix. I say fix this game bug where higher TL spells dont over write lower spells and axe the lamer game play before any PPU nerfs are done. And for the record i am not a PPU and dont have a PPU on any account at all.
I do however believe that gaming should be about fun not winning by any means.
Sako
Antibuff followed by a 50% shelter, even if its a holy shelter, is enough to kill a PPU. And getting that shelter off on the PPU before he does is well....using more skill (timing) then the PPU.
I still do think its rediculous that the healer class is virtually unkillable without an apu, though. Should be the other way around...huge asset to the team but extremely weak.
Shadow Dancer
26-11-03, 20:11
Originally posted by Ryuben
last time my ppu died PvP...was a fatal run time error:rolleyes:
I didn't know so many players on pluto were called Fatal Runtime Error.
ghandisfury
26-11-03, 23:32
Originally posted by g0rt
Antibuff followed by a 50% shelter, even if its a holy shelter, is enough to kill a PPU. And getting that shelter off on the PPU before he does is well....using more skill (timing) then the PPU.
This is a bunch of bullshit. I've gotton so good at the noob buffing that I can kill ANY PPU if I have an APU with me. I can land a shelter on the PPU before his screen shows that he's lost his own. This is wrong and needs to be fixed. And for the record.....lag does not = skill....
Originally posted by g0rt
I still do think its rediculous that the healer class is virtually unkillable without an apu, though. Should be the other way around...huge asset to the team but extremely weak.
I'm all for this, and I know where you're getting this from. (anybody say EQ/FFXI) The big difference in these games is the fact that it doesn't take two seconds to die in EQ or FFXI. Not only that but clarics have attack spells. They are able to do direct damage on any player (infact I knew a few that were fucking horribly hard to kill on the solen zeck server). If you want to make us an asset (like we already are) and make us "extreamly weak", then you're going to have to give us some VERY good offensive spells in return.
I'm pretty sick about how easy PPUs are to kill now. It makes me sad...I remember when they were basically unkillable, now I see them dropping like flies.....then these people that hate PPU/APU combo come and complain about something that they basically called for. (I was one of them). I used to agree with noob buffing, but now it's so damn easy to take down PPUs, I'm supprised I still play one.
Jesterthegreat
27-11-03, 11:49
everyone is going on about making them extremely weak... can you not read where i have repeatedly stated i still think they should be the best defencive char? also with an SC / DB / HP / Uzi combo they are far from defenceless. ok i know SC's are shitty... but show one to a kami'd runner :D besides its one more thing to pound them with.
and tbh i think rather than balancing them seperatly i think hybrids should be what everyone aims for... maybe a couple of changes need to be made though
i agree ppu's should not be able to do dmg and yes the patch will sort that out on para. The idea of having a massive negative if u have pistol combat on a pure ppu should be addressed say something like the hybrid nerf only NOT SO EXTREME.
As for the noob buffing yes i think its a wikid idea to make higher tl spells replace lower tl ones this would fix this problem. The whole cast a shelter on whoever u rez no matter what class it is is just taking it to the extreme people say noob buffing is a good was to take a ppu down. NO its a extremely cheap method to take down a ppu but none the less it is atm a method which makes ppu's have to always keep a eye on their s/d something u have to adapt to.
And when i say solo i mean me on my kami apu on my own solo. I can't do this to the good ppu's (i won't name names cus ur heads are big enough already :P) but mediocre ppu's u can solo even pistol pe's using a simple tl3 can take down mediocre ppu's.
ghandisfury
27-11-03, 18:24
Originally posted by Candaman
i agree ppu's should not be able to do dmg and yes the patch will sort that out on para. The idea of having a massive negative if u have pistol combat on a pure ppu should be addressed say something like the hybrid nerf only NOT SO EXTREME.
NOt only no, but hell no....That means all PPUs will get nerfed. Mellee/hazard/spy means nerf? No way. Besides, without parashock it is litterally impossible to kill another runner (unless they want to die) with a TAR or an uzi.
JustIn_Case
27-11-03, 18:38
@ghandisfury
Hazard + Spy wont give negatives since they dont add to any combat skills, but Melee does.
There is an PSI-Combat buff, i would like to see an PSI-Defens buff, that can be selfcasted with an negative effect on APU skill. So if they make Melee useless for PPUs then i think they should add an PSI-Defense buff.
As an PPU i agree that we shouldnt be able to kill in PvP, though i would like to see an boost on SoulClusters for PvM use.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
This is a bunch of bullshit. I've gotton so good at the noob buffing that I can kill ANY PPU if I have an APU with me.
Oh for the anti-buff. Depends on the PPU if they are anyway good they will know the timing sequence between when the antibuff hits and when thier buff can kick in. Although you have heal/shield to throw on them and can tell which from the spell. So it is probably not that hard.
I'd like to see PPUS be able to override low level buffs but only on themselves.
and make us "extreamly weak", then you're going to have to give us some VERY good offensive spells in return.
Isn't that the whole point of the APU?
I'm supprised I still play one. [/B]
Depends how you play one. I don't play my PPU offensive, more a support role. So while I don't get into combat much I can do
- Cast all PPU spells
- Repair low TL (need to check actually)
- Recycle all Ammo types
- Drive everything up to a Rhino/APC
- Scout Drone an area
- Mod weapons (TL30)
- Research around the same level as CST
- Hack warbots
So it is a good all rounded support character. In actual combat I might have it hard but still good character to have.
personally -as a PPU- i gotta say Anti Buffs are a pain in t3h ass..
as a PPU.. always go in battle with your Trade disabled (some smart APUs have the idea to open ur Trade so u cant run away while second APU is casting some anti buffs on u..)
if they cast anti buffs run away real quick ^^ then turn around and cast SC and paralyse them.
2 APU's were hunting me @ CRP, Uranus (2 APUs from uTs btw :eek: )
they always PK n00bs at MB but now they were at CRP killing high ranking players o_O
they shouldnt have messed w/ me :rolleyes:
as a fully buffed PPU 83/62 (including holy cath sanc.) they tried poison and energy on me (while having all buffs on)
let's say if s/d would last 3 mins i would go downstairs, take a piss and slowly walk back upstairs, cast a heal and i would be fine...) they casted Anti Buff on me and i ran away... so it didnt work, cast heal, focus cast SC on those monks, holy para em so they cant run to GR...
(always hate APUs who attack a PPU, then when they cant win, run away towards GR...)
anyway they couldnt run, then get ur Parashock Bolt (yeah the famous lvl 8 spell which costs around 10 mana :D )
and kill em...
what im trying to say is :
1) PPUs: run away if they cast Anti Buff, then run back
2) APUs: use dirty tricks like opening trade and they anti buff and HL PPUs...
I l0v3 t3h PPU p0w4h :angel:
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