View Full Version : (Uranus) Belt Drops in Warzones
I want belt drops in warzones added on Uranus.
Please vote 'yes', 'no' or 'don't care'.
Why?
Because teams that win OP fights only to get ninja hacked, ganged up on, hacked the next day... and have no reward except spent ammo when they lose a fight.
At least if they get some belts they can say they won a little something in return and in my opinion there should be some consequence for losing an OP battle. It might make people think twice about starting a scrap without committing themselves to finishing it and accepting consequence.
They do it on Jupiter already and it works fine for them.
[EDIT] Poll didn't work like 5 times :/ pls just post your choice and opinion
as you know i dont play uranus anymore,but the large majority of the english community didnt want belt drops.
I do however agree since they were added its gotten ghey.........
but uranus doesnt need any more problems, however oif they get worked out and belt drops work again, i may come back.
Psycho Killa
25-11-03, 03:07
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51674&highlight=belt+drops+in+warzones
Probably cuz most people want it the way it is now.
Though that was along time ago maybe they have changed there mind...
I just feel there needs to be more consequence to fighting in what is meant to be the bread and butter of clan life.
I'm sorry there isn't enough loss in this game.
People dont get punished enough, or punished correctly for death or killing.
I'm no carebear. I like carnage.
I want to lose stuff because I deserved to lose it.
Dribble Joy
25-11-03, 03:16
The object of OP fights is to control OPs, not to loot peoples stuff.
If you want that, go to PP, MB or TH.
People will simply stop going to OP fights.
As outlined in this thread (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51674), and many others, the vast majority of people did not want the chages brought in.
Those who did, were mostly Jovians, and hence why the rules were indeed changed over there.
No, Uranus is already gank-based... If you add belt drop people (including myself) won't go to an op war unless they have a damn near guaranteed win.
Why bother to OP fight then?
Learn to lose or Learn to win.
Its that "i'm not dropping my stuff" attitude that makes OP fights seem so unrewarding. There should be something on the line. Even if it's not the OP which it invariably isn't... which i've already stated.
[SP]Ostrich
25-11-03, 03:23
keiron, if you cant handle losing a weapon, you dont deserve the op.
Originally posted by [SP]Ostrich
keiron, if you cant handle losing a weapon, you dont deserve the op.
So you're telling me running into a 15 vs. 1 fight with only you and turrets means I don't deserve the op because my clan is off-line? I agree something needs to be online, but risking Drop’ in my Pain Easer or Power armor isn't it.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
They do it on Jupiter already and it works fine for them.
Well... actually it doesn't really. People now come with lots of allies so they make sure they win OR they don't come at all. And Ninja hacking can be done still as well...
So only a simple beltdrop won't be a solution.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Learn to lose or Learn to win.
Err do you even play on uranus????
I ask this, cus when you go up against any of the OP's currently owned, you either get the clan that owns the OP, or 20 of their "allies" come to help them. Which in laymens (wrong spelling?) terms mean you<them. And this is wot Oath is trying to put accross in his post, the server doesnt need something to put people off OP fights, at the very most it could do with a couple of whole clans being removed from the server, to get more interest in taking them for the other clans oin the server.
**Rant mode off**
QuantumDelta
25-11-03, 04:43
And it doesn't matter which side you are on because both do it.
However only one side spills foul abuse over global........
And it might also add to the highly prevalent problem of Monkocron. There would most likely be more PPUs present to ensure that you don't die and drop your valuable (and nearly irreplaceable, depending on how many friends you don't have) items. Might also mean more APUs so you can obliterate people in a hurry and decrease the chance you'll die and lose important items.
[SP]Ostrich
25-11-03, 10:37
Not every one brings their allies. the only time we have brought an "ally" was an alternate character of a person in our clan. We win a fair few op wars. (op wars when we are evenly or outnumbered).
belt drops are fine by me.
i will fight for my op with or without belt drops.
Ppl will take opwars even more serious.
There will be even more monks to be sure to win. No more spies cause thats more fun, just monks to win.
More allies. Either ppl bring a huge team to be sure to waste all enemies or they don't fight back at all. No one will try to defend their op with the 3 ppl who are online.
Every tank will bring a cs and a tsg. Every Monk will bring HL. Every PE will bring a RolH or a Pain Easer. And every ppu will bring one rare spell. And we all know what spell that will be. Every spy will bring his hacktool and then log back his monk.
I don't like the idea. It`s one of the reasons i don't play jupiter.
Beltdrop on Uranus would make OP fights worse as it already is. Both sides would try to attack only when they have much more ppl online than the opponment.
I know that some ppl are currently complaining about certain alliance and beltdrop would make such alliances become stronger.
No more apu/ppu kamikaze-actions when rushing a 15 ppl clan at an OP (greetz to sYn ;) )
In other words: beltdrop in warzones kills the fun completly
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 13:14
i agree with the people... leave as is >.<
I wouldn't be happy sending my troops to help another clan take an OP if this was changed.
I wouldn't want my guys to lose stuff over someone elses dispute.
That's why Alliances would fade out.
Don't give me BS about monks because they're gonna be nerfed to death soon.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 13:40
alliences are not a bad thing... its only really big ones that are.
tbh the community, the uranus playerbase, has already spoken on this issue. further discussion (read: attempting to force your views on others) is a waste of forum space
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
I wouldn't be happy sending my troops to help another clan take an OP if this was changed.
AT WOT POINT ARE YOU NOT GETTING THE POINT FFS
Uranus is full of "ALLIES", we dont need more allies to help other allies to help against the "alliance" FFS
This is the reason the server is borked and devoid of life, its been killed by the majority of uTs/Synchs regime, and they dont care if it has, cus now they get to do wot they want on the server. But this has made lots of people leave due to boredom :/
Originally posted by XanX
AT WOT POINT ARE YOU NOT GETTING THE POINT FFS
Uranus is full of "ALLIES", we dont need more allies to help other allies to help against the "alliance" FFS
This is the reason the server is borked and devoid of life, its been killed by the majority of uTs/Synchs regime, and they dont care if it has, cus now they get to do wot they want on the server. But this has made lots of people leave due to boredom :/ What he said. :p
agree with XanX. There is no room for small clans anymore. From what I have seen on Uranus there isn't even many OP fights anymore which is a shame as it's one of the things promoted by KK as high level content.
XanX?
Did you not read what I said.
I'm saying that if this proposed change happened the alliances would break up. Isn't that what the consensus want?
I regard what you said as a flame also and I am deeply offended.
I'm not trying to enforce my views on anyone Jester. That discussion took place a long time ago and now it's up for review. Its my right to post about what I want as long as it's within forum restrictions.
I really hate it when people post up links to historical threads. Don't they realise I was here too when the initial discussions happened? If I remember I was opposed to it initially but now I believe it's time to re-evaluate this topic. Especially with the political situation on our server.
QuantumDelta
25-11-03, 14:17
Sadly, I think most know that this would make the alliance problem worse, not better.
Obviously, as explained above because people would not want to lose at any cost.
They would bring all of their allies to every fight and not fight if they were out numbered making things worse and blehblehbleh o_O
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 14:31
well no its not your right... these are free forums - its your priveledge (but i wont push that as i have no more 'right' then you :D)
and yes you may of course speak about it. however i am feeling a negative reaction towards this... maybe you should accept that?
i mean no offense and i apologise if i caused any (I'm at work... god i hate it here).
I can't see a problem with belt drops, but I see a big problem with OP's at the moment.
The belt drop could make it worse, or make it better but I don't think anyone can predict that. Maybe some kind of test ? It can't be a hard thing to patch and then patch out after 7 days.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 14:42
7 days of everyone that dies in an op war losing an item... people bitch about the size of the alliance... how do you wanna take em on like this?
OP Rez Killing becomes a viable tactic.
the only advantage of this in my eyes is that it could prevent a dead char spying
Rez killing would go away as people would GR out if their team was losing.
Belt drops will also mean more veriety at OP wars as not everyone will be prepared to carry their most precious rares anymore.
TBH dieing anywhere else doesn't seem a problem so dieing at a war should be even less of a problem seeing as it is something you have most likely prepared for.
If you are worried about dropping something then doesn't matter what char you play, goto a PSI shop and buy a shit losd of PSI 3 boosters. Now you will more than likely drop one of them :)
Thats why I tend to carry high TL stuff from mobs...Implant k's etc...
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 14:53
lol OMG 3xpl01t3h!
er... yeah
lol
{MD}GeistDamnit
25-11-03, 14:57
Originally posted by Shurikn
Beltdrop on Uranus would make OP fights worse as it already is. Both sides would try to attack only when they have much more ppl online than the opponment.
I know that some ppl are currently complaining about certain alliance and beltdrop would make such alliances become stronger.
No more apu/ppu kamikaze-actions when rushing a 15 ppl clan at an OP (greetz to sYn ;) )
In other words: beltdrop in warzones kills the fun completly
yep well put man.
btw hello it's me golbez :D
no belt drops for my vote.
My feelings exactly BM.
I have to ask QD too...
Would you send SSC to go help uTs or Synchs get an OP back from sYn, knowing that on their day they could trounce the lot of you? As leader could you make the decision for your runners to lose their Items on your sayso? Do you not feel that there would be resistance from within your own clan as to go helping them?
You'd definately think twice if they said sYn had the Regs and Underworld with them. But... shoe on the otehr foot now... wpuld Doc or Cerbi ask their lads to turn out and help knowing that all of 9 clans could decend on them at any minute?
I'd hope that this change would encourage clans to go do things for themselves instead of relying on numbers to win scraps. Even though I agree that in certain circumstances a big fight is a good fight... there needs to be consequences to consider.
Maybe my idea is not the perfect solution to what is a big problem of consequence and reward in an OP fight situation, but it's a small step towards it.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:04
in ssc it tends to be a group decision. we do not get ordered around by QD...
and btw - this would make all allies stick together every fight... why would any clan wanna do it alone? alliences would grow closer, maybe even merge into a HUGE clan
My point is, there are seasoned Uranus players who have posted wot would happen, cus they have seen it already. I do see how you can see this, unless you are new to the server.
Golbezzzzz !!!
Everyone listen to my m8 Golbez coz he's always right! :)
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:15
Mort? out of curiosity - who are you on Uranus?
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
Mort? out of curiosity - who are you on Uranus?
*uses telepathic ability*
KOS!!!!!
:lol:
{MD}GeistDamnit
25-11-03, 15:18
Originally posted by Shurikn
Golbezzzzz !!!
Everyone listen to my m8 Golbez coz he's always right! :)
so so true ;)
and mortice is named mortice on uranus isn't he? i dunno just sounds familiar.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 15:21
could be... hes someone who can name leaders of clans lol
hey golbez? how ya doin anyway? long time no see and all that
@ XerX
I've been playing since Beta 4. I had my own clan on Neptune... seasoned enough for you?
@ Jester
If you don't know who I am then you should... because there's a very good reason why you should.
If you guys in SSC make group decisions... would the possibility of losing equipment figure in your decision? Would it affect your alliances? I think so.
Anywayz... I said it's not the best idea but none of you guys have come up with anything better even tho this problem is even more prominent on our server than the monks situation. You're not too shy at posting Ideas at how to nerf monks... start coming up with ways to help our political situation. If anything senior members of the community should be trying to shy away from half-server wide alliances but it is just not possible anymore on Uranus. Its stick together or die in some circumstances unfortunately.
Like I said... maybe changing the rules on Belt-Drops isn't the answer and I'm not stupid enough to believe it would fix the problems in one shot. The problem I have at the moment is that at OP fights you are either with Alliance A or Alliance B and the whole dispute becomes a drop-in centre for every runner who fancies a scrap that evening. And what happens if they lose? Go get poked and off we go again. Hardly any reason to discourage alliances there. Its not like gettin poked and losing a bit of condition on your IMPs make a great difference to your game. To some people it is how they live their Neocron life :)
PS: My in-game nick is not Mortice btw.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 16:11
this wouldnt make me think 'hmm i might die, ill not go' this will make us ALL think 'hmm better get the lads together - if we get enough people we will win AND get l00t!'
not a solution.
i admit it MAY do it your way, but it may do it my way. until its in we wont know. and if it makes it worse then its a bit late for turning back
Load_HeavyLoad
25-11-03, 16:15
As an idea maybe not have the whole server to test out the belt drop in watrzones but only in certain ops, like Fortresses so the owning clan could get an advantage over the attackers adding to the RP of a fortreeses havign places to hide and shoot in IRL or, Failing that try it out on Pluto heh :p
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 16:16
or just play jupi to try it? O_o
{MD}GeistDamnit
25-11-03, 16:18
damnit now I wanna know who mortice is, was I right? I see so many names a day when I'm on.
and hi jester, I still play, but I been working a lot lately, and when I log it's usually to my spy wong ;)
Jest I did say it wasn't a solution myself.
But it's an Idea.
If you don't like it fine. As long as we've identified there is a problem we can find different ways to form a solution.
Way back when... you used to drop whatever was in your hand regardless of where you were killed be it an unlabelled pinfire or a 5 slot TPC and no safeslots.
Its somewhat of a carebear attitude that we have thesedays i'm sad to say.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 17:17
]v[ortice... you know as well is i do that when it was the old drop rules people would stop on low health and empty their QB... im not a noob, i was there, plz dont treat me like one.
yes it was different... but if both peeps thought they would lose both would stop lol... that was a fun fight O_o
carebear seems to be the term for anyone who is against you. now im not talkin about YOU personally... but whenever anyone bitches about someone the word carebear comes into play...
personally no i dont like that idea. however ill also admit that i cant think of a very good alternative.
i understand that this is to break up alliences and make death have a meaning, this is something i personally would agree with (big clans anyway) however making it so little clans who ally risk as much as big clans who do doesnt seem right. you can call it carebear - but IMHO a noob losing his 2 slot TPC is worse off than a capped 'vet' losing a 2 slot CS
Tbh, im 50% for it, 50% against it..
For:
It Would make ninja hackers think twice.
It would feel like a great achievement to win an OP fight...
Against:
Uranus server needs to grow up firstly, which i dont think is gonna happen any time soon.
There would be way less OP fights...
Until the bugs/crashes where u tend to get stuck in synch at op fights dissapear, i dont think it will be too good. Imagine the complaints...
I'm more inclined to make warzones "full drop" areas. If you die in a warzone, there is no belt, you just drop an item straight there on the floor, like in Beta, it actually adds to the war, not removes from it.
Currently :
Runner A : ach, op's under attack, big clan, 15 of em, we got 10 people, lets go!!
GR in, fight, maybe win, maybe win, maybe lose
If they lose "ahh, we'll wait till they have 10 people and we have 15, and go back!"
With full belt drops
Runner A : ach, op's under attack, big clan, 15 of em, we got 10 people, lets see if "so n so" is on.
GR in, take down APU, APU drop's x item, x-item is grabbed by y runner, y runner gets taken down, drops item z.
End of the battle, the winner gets the op's, but loses some items, the loser loses the op, and loses some item
Both sides gain items that people have dropped
Mind you, in the past, after an op fight, the two sides would usualy end up meeting somewhere and exchanging weapons back, and slot 1 would still protect your swirly.
But, from what I remember on Uranus, it wouldnt really work for that server, the action is very limited to camping, and overwhelming with numbers, taking 4 or 5 different clans to fight two or three people, and multiple ninja hacks.
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 17:32
Originally posted by Lexxuk
But, from what I remember on Uranus, it wouldnt really work for that server, the action is very limited to camping, and overwhelming with numbers, taking 4 or 5 different clans to fight two or three people, and multiple ninja hacks.
unfortunatly that is accurate
Jest I wasn't trying to patronise you dude.
I did feel patronised when you became the second person to argue against me with something I'd already said in the same thread. *Looks at XerX*
Maybe if the stakes were higher for losing an OP and the rewards were higher for taking it etc.
I would be more comfortable if the stakes were higher for retaining an OP and the relative loss for losing an assault on an outpost was greater also.
I still think it's time we used OP Fights as events between clans. Leaders meet up and discuss the rules for the fight (IE number of PPUs/APUs total number of players on each side). Possibly with a GM as an Independant adjudicator or another runner of Neutral allegiances to make sure the rules are adhered to.
Then maybe the leaders can set up their own consequences. IE: OP remains theirs for a week.
Maybe everyone could go to Chez Sypher for a pint afterwards and a laugh after the fight.
This really all rests on clan leaders putting aside their differences and sitting down for a discussion about it. Maybe even make use of the War tab in the clan screen.
Its not going to happen, but if we wait for KK to give us a technical solution we'll be playing silly man's OP wars for months to come.
Mmmm. Sexy Patch, when do you think the other patch will be released?
Mmmm. Sexy Patch, when do you think the other patch will be released?:wtf:
LOL WTF?
Double post on the wrong thread?
no never... Jupiter sux0rs and will suck... and people will simply react similiar like on jupiter ninja hacking etc... forget about beltdropo_O
QuantumDelta
25-11-03, 19:37
Originally posted by XaNToR
no never... Jupiter sux0rs and will suck... and people will simply react similiar like on jupiter ninja hacking etc... forget about beltdropo_O
Ya know, I never really expected that o_O
I've certainly encouraged the exhalted ones to this thread.
So the Belt drops encourage Ninja Hacking :)
Spose it's as good a reason as any to not have em in.
I'm gonna go away and think of a better system for reward and penalty in OP fights.
Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Pls Close
Jesterthegreat
25-11-03, 20:31
personally i think if OP's were more usefull clans would be more inclined to defend them.
now im not talkin about upping the bonus... +50 RES is enough for a simple gr fee lol - i dunno what to suggest though
maybe even purchasing NPC guards? but this would need inproved AI
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