View Full Version : Make PSI Combat boost castable on self again!
since hybrids are nerfed to hell and back anywayz, making this boost castable on self would help the remaining hybrids who dont have an apu kami /mc5 ds a bit... it wouldnt "overpower" them cause its only a little buff, and they still have the 35% damage nerf (runcasting without pa is almost impossible).
it would help the not-so-uber-rich hybrids a lot, and it still doesnt overpower them
No, theres a reason why it was stopped, this reason is still valid.
Originally posted by Oath
No, theres a reason why it was stopped, this reason is still valid.
which is... ?
Well, its a hard concept to grasp i know............
Balancing, it was removed because it boosted hybrids far too much, also cos it wasnt fair on the pooooooor tankees :lol:
Monks.............smell.
I can see where your coming from however id have to say no, although it would help the poor among us who dont have huge clans to farm mc5 etc it will give those who do a even greater advantage, causing many hybrids to be overpowered again. Its unfortunate kk decide to make implants which could be argued are needed to be viable as a class, almost impossible to obtain without a huge amount of support, thus the powerful get more powerful and the rest dont have a chance to catch up. The least they could do would be to make kami mobs like y reps just spawn them everywhere, then leave the players to clean them up.
Originally posted by Oath
Well, its a hard concept to grasp i know............
Balancing, it was removed because it boosted hybrids far too much, also cos it wasnt fair on the pooooooor tankees :lol:
Monks.............smell.
that was before the "send-hybrids-to-hell-and-back-nerf" thingy :rolleyes:
have you ever tried an hybrid? if you dont you should try it.. you cant runcast most spells, unless you have DS and apu kami, which 90% of the server cant afford..
when people talk about Hybrids what do you mean?
are you on about a split APU/PPU monk?
If so what kind of levels of skill are you talking about?
Originally posted by garyu69
when people talk about Hybrids what do you mean?
are you on about a split APU/PPU monk?
If so what kind of levels of skill are you talking about?
APU/PPU
not capped / mid level / reguler pvp-er
Originally posted by Al3X
that was before the "send-hybrids-to-hell-and-back-nerf" thingy :rolleyes:
have you ever tried an hybrid? if you dont you should try it.. you cant runcast most spells, unless you have DS and apu kami, which 90% of the server cant afford.. yes, i have played hybrid, ive played kami hybrid too, wich is why oi dont feel its balancing.
Hybrids do not get the same offence or defence as pure monks, however they still kick arse, and yet you want to raise their attack power again by allowing them to self buff?
a Spy cant pistol 2 nor can a pistol pe, shit a tank can barley cast heavy 1 ffs, and you wanna boost your 'nerfed' class by allowing them an unfair advantage over others?
A good hybrid is near ppu defense and near apu offense without self cast booster.
Originally posted by Al3X
APU/PPU
not capped / mid level / reguler pvp-er unfortunatly kk cant look at balancing the game from that point of view, they have to balance it from the fully capped char point of view :( as if a handfull fo players get all the best equipment and work out a godlike setup again there will only be more nerfs.
Originally posted by Oath
yes, i have played hybrid, ive played kami hybrid too, wich is why oi dont feel its balancing.
Hybrids do not get the same offence or defence as pure monks, however they still kick arse, and yet you want to raise their attack power again by allowing them to self buff?
a Spy cant pistol 2 nor can a pistol pe, shit a tank can barley cast heavy 1 ffs, and you wanna boost your 'nerfed' class by allowing them an unfair advantage over others?
A good hybrid is near ppu defense and near apu offense without self cast booster.
you forget something... +20 apu means 35% nerf to ppu, so its not that you make them uber again... my point is that midlvl and/or high lvl hybrids WITHOUT kami chip/DS should be able to pvp too... cause they simply cant runcast their attack spells...
you dont overpower them with this... since its NERFS ppu damage..
Originally posted by Al3X
you forget something... +20 apu means 35% nerf to ppu
Slap on PSI PA when you need to and you can remove that nerf.
sure, so in the middle of combat i stop, take of my apu pa, put ppu pa on, cast blessed heal, put apu pa on, and fight on? :rolleyes:
that aint working... maybe in pepperpark but not in op fights or any other "not-so-pepperpark-like-fights"
Originally posted by Al3X
sure, so in the middle of combat i stop, take of my apu pa, put ppu pa on, cast blessed heal, put apu pa on, and fight on? :rolleyes:
that aint working... maybe in pepperpark but not in op fights or any other "not-so-pepperpark-like-fights"
Maybe you should practise more or prehaps APU/Hybrids get it easy.
I am routinely swapping out spells and armor in combat. Not PA as I'm a pure but certainly belts.
Shadow Dancer
24-11-03, 12:46
I'm so damn lazy and spoiled. I can't stand having to take any drugs, or having to swap any armor, or anything like that. lol :p
Originally posted by Archeus
Maybe you should practise more
don't judge my skills if you dont know me.. i can aim, i know how "it" works. but having to stand still half of your casting time is not-so-cool when you're getting hit by a liberator/pain easer/speedgun.
Originally posted by Archeus
or prehaps APU/Hybrids get it easy. errr do you really think that +20 [edit: if your able to use them at all, if your mid lvl] apu would make you uber? not really.. it still doesnt cap your spells... (except for ppl who are capped and have DS & Apu kami maybe, but thats the whole point.. not everyone has one of those chips and the mid-lvl hybrids are left in the dark...)
I've never played a monk before but without Imps or anything a Capped Monk could get these levels:
APU: 102
PPU: 102
MST: 71
POW: 70
That gives you enough skills to use the Crahn Holy Energy Barrel as a top APU spell and for PPU spells you can cast all level 2 boosts + other high ones.
Thats sounds like a strongish monk to me.
But as i don't know monks i'll shut up now
Originally posted by garyu69
I've never played a monk before but without Imps or anything a Capped Monk could get these levels:
APU: 102
PPU: 102
MST: 71
POW: 70
errrrr that would bring your damage really low (200% ?) that means you can only fire while standing still (and believe me, that truly sux cause standing still while in combat is suicide)
even with psi core you couldnt get above the 500% needed for runcasting..
so no, thats not a real good setup ;)
Thats sounds like a strongish monk to me.not really.. since you are a sitting duck
But as i don't know monks i'll shut up now good plan :p i suggest you try playing an hybrid WITHOUT mc5/apu kami before you post any new suggestions :) (no offence)
You all seem to have a problem with standing still to fire.
You'r all bloody at an advatage anyway by not having an aiming rectile.
i vote yes, the hybrid damage is so sucky, even with 4 damage boosts you still have to laugh at the damage caused.
i see no reason not to allow it to be self castable now, its not like hybrids are uber over powered is it now
Originally posted by garyu69
You'r all bloody at an advatage anyway by not having an aiming rectile. the reticle thingy is a different discussion.. even though i agree monks should have it to (only offensive spells though) but lets stay on topic :)
You all seem to have a problem with standing still to fire.
standing still = dead
The few non-kami hybrids that are around have already proved
that hybrids are stronger than any other class except for pure
monks, and you want to buff them up even more? Pures needs to
be toned down, and when they are we will probably see alot
more hybrids, and then people _will_ start whining about them
again because they are still very very powerfull.
Originally posted by Rade
The few non-kami hybrids that are around have already proved
that hybrids are stronger than any other class except for pure
monks, and you want to buff them up even more? Pures needs to
be toned down, and when they are we will probably see alot
more hybrids, and then people _will_ start whining about them
again because they are still very very powerfull.
well ppl whine about anything that kills them... you can find all sorts of nerf threads on this forum (even for the wyatt earp O_o)
"the majority usually means that all fools are on the same side" ;)
like i said before: its not impossible to find a good hybrid setup, but without DS/kami chip its pretty hard... this buff (hybrids can probly only use the lvl2 one) wouldnt overpower them, it might help them a bit in LETTING THEM RUNCAST instead of being gunmeat :rolleyes: (oh: im not talking bout capped chars but about the mid-lvl hybrids, which seem to be completly forgotten)
Originally posted by Rade
The few non-kami hybrids that are around have already proved
that hybrids are stronger than any other class except for pure
monks, and you want to buff them up even more? Pures needs to
be toned down, and when they are we will probably see alot
more hybrids, and then people _will_ start whining about them
again because they are still very very powerfull.
perhaps those monks are the cream of the crop though, people who knew how to setup a hybrid before everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
by the same score you could so just going off the best PEs that almost never loose a fight that there class is over powered(which isnt true) but it all depends on who your fighting.
and with the up coming nerfages to monks(like the range nerf on apu spells)hybrids could slip in to unviability
Well, as you know Ive only fought three hybrids so its hard to
say. Max Twilight had never played a monk before he did his
hybrid tho so I wouldnt say there were any exceptional
experience behind his setup or playstyle.
So..............you want to make a class that isnt supposed to exist, more powerful............theres a reason why you have such massive combat ranks, theres a reason why the apu/ppu split came into play.
Theres a reason why hybrids are getting unviable, they still own in pvp, and they dont need all the uber chips in the world.
Originally posted by ezza
and with the up coming nerfages to monks(like the range nerf on apu spells)hybrids could slip in to unviability indeed.. those upcoming nerfs will be a true slap in the face for hybrids...
but again back on topic.. with all the pro's and con's listed, i cant see a reason to not make it castable on self again.. it wont hurt anyone (we can probly still not runcast again O_o) but hey, its better then nothing
HELP THE MID-LVL HYBRIDS!
Originally posted by Oath
So..............you want to make a class that isnt supposed to exist, more powerful............never heard or anything like that, plz post a link of any official quote like that... they were supposed to be TONED DOWN not whiped away...
theres a reason why you have such massive combat ranks, theres a reason why the apu/ppu split came into play.yes, this is another way to nerf the hybrid thing, thats the price hybrid has to pay.
Theres a reason why hybrids are getting unviable, they still own in pvp, and they dont need all the uber chips in the world. ffs, go play a hybrid without DS and kami and i want to hear you saying that again.. those ppl who killed you in pp1 were capped, had kami chips and a ds... not everyone is like that.. think of the mid lvl hybrids without massive cash before you say anything stupid like that again... dont act like hybrids are overpowered cause thats complete BS, there are enough pe's who rule too, and are they nerfed? no... the original hybrids were overpowered, thats for sure.. but the 35% damage nerfs was a bit too much imo since the MID LVL HYBRIDS (like said before a 10000times) cant runcast
Well, the problem is that we cant balance it to cater for mid level
hybrids because then the capped ones would be back to insanely
overpowered again.
Originally posted by Al3X
(like said before a 10000times) cant runcast Seems to me that this topic should be renamed "i wanna be able to runcast and kill all"
Rade, for a kami hybrid having a psi boost 3 instead of melee 3 really can fuck up their defence.
The hybrid must be the hardest class to choose now no doubt about that so when they capp it at least you can let them runcast with a nrg halo it would be a nice balance if you give them the combat boost buff....
Dont worry bout making them overpowered again theres alot more to do when it comes to that i know that my apu is quite strong but a good pistol pe with a libby kill me before i even have a chance to do some damage dont worry itll be a little harder with hybrid but still an ez target...
and think about when theyre in combat they probly cant heal themselves when they combat buffed themselves because apu brings down ppu so it balances...
Like it would take you two seconds to choose which one youd
rather build a template around riz :p :rolleyes:
I am the lone "Maybe if..." voter.
WIN!
Anyway, they should make PSI Combat boost castable on self again... maybe if...
HYBRIDS WERE SUPPOSED TO EXIST AS GODLY RUNNERS
Silly n00bs. Hybrids were cool in their day, I was one of them, but no one player should be able to take on every class on their own 1v1 and be almost guaranteed victory. If you want to be some super well-rounded player who can do it all, go play some lame FPS where skills/stats aren't involved and be uber there. Here there are Character Limitations and half of the fun is learning what yours are, what your stregnths are, and how to set yourself up to be able to win more than lose. The other half is being an APU and killing everyone. er... shit, where are my pants.
I really was gonna go somewhere with that, I swear coach. Put me back in!!i!
Originally posted by Oath
So..............you want to make a class that isnt supposed to exist, more powerful............theres a reason why you have such massive combat ranks, theres a reason why the apu/ppu split came into play.
Theres a reason why hybrids are getting unviable, they still own in pvp, and they dont need all the uber chips in the world.
hybrids are supposed to be viable as much so as pure, they didnt say hybrids would be gone they nerfed them with the 30% thingy they slapped on.
imo they tried to take the easy way out on the monk front by splitting the class instead of blancing the hybrid, but they thats just my opinion.
Well, the problem is that we cant balance it to cater for mid level
true you do have to balance at the top end, but the hybrids i have recently fought were not ultra uber, no where near the old standard that they were.
and atm hybrids are not condicered when balancing the monks, when the nerfages to either class hit, it will hit hybrids just as hard.
out of interest Rade what weapon where you using on the hybrid, cos when i was fighting one with my tank i was doing good damage with my CS, when testing with speed gun, it would of took maybe 4 or 5 full rounds of speedgun to take one down, still a lot of ammo, but not godly, and compared to the damge they were giving out(ignoring what people state Kreol can do)i felt it was balanced.
I may make a hybrid on the test server to see how it goes on there
RoLH with capped dmg. Go figure.
Originally posted by garyu69
Seems to me that this topic should be renamed "i wanna be able to runcast and kill all" no im not aiming to become uber, no class should be able to kill all on their own.. and i get killed to when i get damage boosted + being shot with any force/pierce weapon. but i cant think of any class that is unable to fire their weapons while moving at mid lvl... yes im aware that we dont have a reticle, but that doesnt justify that non capped chars cant move in combat
If i try to fire my gun while running i get bullets flying all over the place,
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 15:45
Originally posted by garyu69
If i try to fire my gun while running i get bullets flying all over the place,
ditto... i hate lib's :(
Originally posted by garyu69
If i try to fire my gun while running i get bullets flying all over the place,
thats cos your aim sucks(not trying to get at you btw)ive seen Veterrox running full speed and seemingly hit every shot on the target
i'm a Rifle user and totally capped.
Only have 82 in Weapon lore as i like to have my 107 for hacking.
would that make me a mid level PE as i can't reach my peak? :confused:
Originally posted by garyu69
i'm a Rifle user and totally capped.
Only have 82 in Weapon lore as i like to have my 107 for hacking.
would that make me a mid level PE as i can't reach my peak? :confused:
82 including imps and buffs?
think i had a lot more just on my pistol PE and i still had 100 hack, but not at home so cant say for sure
Originally posted by garyu69
i'm a Rifle user and totally capped.
Only have 82 in Weapon lore as i like to have my 107 for hacking.
would that make me a mid level PE as i can't reach my peak? :confused:
no.. its your decission to gimp wpl for hacking... same as i would spend some points in poking instead of psi use... thats a personal decission. so if you want to be a rifle/hacker. then thats your choice, and that doesnt make you mid lvl.. mid lvl = mainskill around 50-80 *BASE* (not as a pe, pe would be around 50-70 mainskill)
Base levels are:
Hack 107
Weapon Lore 72
PSI use 1
i only get +10 from Imps.
I'm a Dex Whore on the Imps because i want to use my Redeemer as i like shooting things from 5 miles away :D
lol ah well, you have sacrificed aiming for the higher weapons id say, if you went for the max of ROG weapon id say you would get a lot better aiming, though i suppose well done for not cookie cutting yourPE;)
Cookie Cutting? You've lost me there
Originally posted by garyu69
Cookie Cutting? You've lost me there
cookie cutting = having same setup as everyone else
you and your redeemer = non cookie setup;)
QuantumDelta
24-11-03, 16:13
Originally posted by ezza
thats cos your aim sucks(not trying to get at you btw)ive seen Veterrox running full speed and seemingly hit every shot on the target
Impossible for a liberator.
Probably anyway :p
Some parts of every burst probably hit (and so the person who is taking the damage from the burst feels like they got hit by all four...because that's what the client does...) but no way in hell would every bullet hit, infact most of his bursts were probably two bullet hits, with a notable remaining being 3 bullet hits.
About 5-10% 1 bullet hits, and about 3% 4 bullet hits.
(...when a full Lib burst hits I go into shock, it's like seeing the holy grail...)
okey okey but when he attacked me i was taking a lot of hits, and when i watched him in action he downed enemy quick so with some skills it can be used real effectivly
Originally posted by ezza
cookie cutting = having same setup as everyone else
you and your redeemer = non cookie setup;) ahhhhh. I'm not a cookie then.
My setup is totally different to everyones i speak to.
They think i am mad in where i have spent some of the skill points.... well actually most of the skill points.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 16:18
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Impossible for a liberator.
Probably anyway :p
Some parts of every burst probably hit (and so the person who is taking the damage from the burst feels like they got hit by all four...because that's what the client does...) but no way in hell would every bullet hit, infact most of his bursts were probably two bullet hits, with a notable remaining being 3 bullet hits.
About 5-10% 1 bullet hits, and about 3% 4 bullet hits.
(...when a full Lib burst hits I go into shock, it's like seeing the holy grail...)
i noticed this with my spy even more at an op war last night... didnt stop me taking down 2 PPU's alone though >.<
QuantumDelta
24-11-03, 16:18
True Enough.
Vett, however, has one weakness when he does that.
Most people just panic too much to see it.
edit;
Liberatir, being the highest RoF vs TL pierce weapon in the game is a natural PPU killer :p
If you catch 'em when they ain't healin it's allllllllll over.
Especially if you can get a DB on'em...
Same goes for hybrids, or APUs.
Problem with hitting APUs is the aiming, of course because APUs can runcast, unlike PPUs or Hybrids.
It's somewhat balanced though..
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 16:20
does he run in a straight line or something... i dunno as i never even met him :p
:edit: my spy cant db... funny that :p
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
does he run in a straight line or something... i dunno as i never even met him :p
:edit: my spy cant db... funny that :p
no he doesnt
anyway think we have taken this off course now, so lets leave the lib and get back to overpowering the hybrids again :p
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 16:23
Originally posted by ezza
lets [snip] get back to overpowering the hybrids again :p
omg! he wants overpowered hybrids!
>.<
QuantumDelta
24-11-03, 16:25
Originally posted by ezza
no he doesnt
anyway think we have taken this off course now, so lets leave the lib and get back to overpowering the hybrids again :p Read my edit...
IMO Hybrids should never be allowed to runcast unless their offence and defence are directly comparable to Tanks or PEs (since Tanks = Great offence with decent defence... PEs = Great defence with decent offence... ).
Since it's already possible for certain kami hybrid configurations to runcast HL and have defence comparable to that of the PE, I would call it overpowered, but, it's weak against force/pierce and....
not many people skill for it :p
lol i dont....honest
i have a hybrid, though not capped still got 2 levels to go before i recap him, then i will need to work on his cons.
but i know id like to have the psi thingy self castable, and i wouldnt consider it overpowering.
but then if it does make the hybrids run cast, then i would say no leave it as it is.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Since it's already possible for certain kami hybrid configurations to runcast HL and have defence comparable to that of the PE, I would call it overpowered, but, it's weak against force/pierce and....
not many people skill for it :p
Imo the defense isnt a problem its the holy heal, its always going to be possible to make good con setups with any class and some work, however add holy heal on top of that and thats when the problems arise, i also completely agree hl shouldnt be runcastable by a hybrid, the only spell which should be fully runcastable with a hybrid is holy energy halo.
Just need to find out what the new hybrids can outheal to see if theres a problem.
The sad thing is if there is, there will most likely be a "fix" which will be bearable for the kami hybrids but those players not lucky enough to have a ds and kami will find themselves with a even more gimped setup than they have now :( Imo if hybrids are to be brought back in this form the DS and kami chips need to be more accessable to all players.
why is everyone AGAINST runcasting? hybrids are not viable for pvp without that.. i dont even care much about healing in combat or so, but i DO wanne be able to cast my halo's when fighting.. not stop-click-hit-catch 23415435235353 bullets-heal-run-fail fail fail fail fail fail fail-stand still-click-fire-catch 256143761537254325 bullets-die :rolleyes:
i dont use kami... i cant afford DS... but i DO wanna be hybrid... its great PvM atm, but pvp.. well.. it sux... not runcasting = dead me
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 16:59
well i wanna hit with every bullet with my lib... but its not gonna happen sunshine
who cares, these carebears think its gonna help anything? i just run with other monks and we cross cast psi3
they wont change it back...but if you know people, who cares, you can get a psi3 whenever you want
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:11
lol... people who dont wanna unbalance classes = carebears now?
well thats news to me...
'boost MY class or j00 are a carebear and ill KOS j00!!1!1!1'
Originally posted by Al3X
why is everyone AGAINST runcasting? hybrids are not viable for pvp without that.. i dont even care much about healing in combat or so, but i DO wanne be able to cast my halo's when fighting.. not stop-click-hit-catch 23415435235353 bullets-heal-run-fail fail fail fail fail fail fail-stand still-click-fire-catch 256143761537254325 bullets-die :rolleyes:
i dont use kami... i cant afford DS... but i DO wanna be hybrid... its great PvM atm, but pvp.. well.. it sux... not runcasting = dead me
If your not bothered about healing in combat be a apu you can fully runcast and dont have to worry about healing :)
Runcasting a hl is the prob as a) to be able to runcast you need high dmg on it so you are going to be hitting hard b) as your moving your heal will be more effective as less shots will hit from burst weapons etc.
They cant allow you to be able to runcast the halo at your lvl as to do that the hybrids using hl will have an even greater chance of runcasting it, which will make them overpowered. (being that they will also gain from the boost they give you). Mabey if u want to runcast try a lower lvl spell. In the same way a kami hybrid should only be able to truly runcast holy energy halo, possibly beam even though they can use hl. Hybrids are not ment to be comparable with apu's their lvl.
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