View Full Version : FPS > PvP
Its true, your FPS is a fair indicator of how you will do at PvP. Take me for instance, I'm no slouch at PvP, but with my previous system, and about 10 FPS if I'm lucky, I'd end up not being able to hit the back side of a bus, probably because I'm missing 2/3'rds of the action.
With my new setup, my framerate goes between 30 in plaza 1, to 100 in some places, which is very nice, averaging about 40 in some duels today.
Today I fought binary, who is a lowtech Rifler, previously, he would have kicked my ass without even trying, my movements would have been poor because of my frame rate, and trying to target him, would also have been poor because of my framerate. Today, the match was pretty even, he would have won because my buffs dropped off, but I stopped the fight because someone holy healed me, so it was a draw hehehe.
Then I had a couple of scraps with Hinch, the first match, with my pain easer, i did okish, still got slammed by him (damn tanks *g*), the 2nd match, i switched to ROG, and it lasted so long both our buffs ran out, and, i lost, but not before doin some nice damage (though he gave me a chance).
So, with a little more practice, esp with kyle/killer/rade, PvP will be about 500% easier than before, simply because of a much higher FPS than before. In a FPS MMORPG, FPS should be of paramount importance, but not so much that it can be the difference between winning a fight, and losing a fight.
Been the case since doom 1.
Who cares...better system is definately an advantage but nothing you cant make up for.
Shadow Dancer
24-11-03, 03:34
Originally posted by g0rt
Who cares...better system is definately an advantage but nothing you cant make up for.
I disagree. You can't always make it up. How do I become uber and death-dealing in op wars? Skillz? Nope, lol. It was after I upgraded my system. Back when I used to fight NDA alot I had SHITTY fps. Like 7 per op fight. Sometimes worse. That's with force fog all the way to the max, where it looked like I was fighting in a "dream" or something. I sucked, it was so friggin hard to hit someone.
AFTER i upgraded it, omg a whole new world. Suddenly I was able to do in op fights what i've always wanted to do. With 30 fps with force fog OFF!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111oneone
Originally posted by g0rt
Been the case since doom 1.
Who cares...better system is definately an advantage but nothing you cant make up for.
depends really, some items can drop your FPS down to 3, and previously my system more than met the recommended specs for NC. running at 3 fps, you cant move, and by the time you have moved and gotten spacial awareness, your dead. This in itself seems very poor, that its along the lines of FPS>Weapon>resists>Skills. Person with the better FPS will always beat the person with better skills, but poor FPS.
Try it, find someone you "know" you can beat 100%, whack something on that sucks up 50% of your CPU, turn up every detail so you get 5-10 FPS, and see if you can win.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
depends really, some items can drop your FPS down to 3, and previously my system more than met the recommended specs for NC. running at 3 fps, you cant move, and by the time you have moved and gotten spacial awareness, your dead. This in itself seems very poor, that its along the lines of FPS>Weapon>resists>Skills. Person with the better FPS will always beat the person with better skills, but poor FPS.
Try it, find someone you "know" you can beat 100%, whack something on that sucks up 50% of your CPU, turn up every detail so you get 5-10 FPS, and see if you can win.
Very very very true. Part of the reason I don't like PvP aspects in this game. I have a moderate system, but it's outdated by today's standards. And still, this game has much simpler graphics than Quake3, yet I am able to play Quake3 matches with 32 players on the server with no lag (neither FPS nor ping) and in NC I get pretty serious lag (I've never seen my ping go below 200ms at best as opposed to 40-60ms I get in Quake3 for instance) and FPS that can get as low as 5 frames per second, or even totally freeze my machine for an instant during really severe OP battles. This is all with most of the options turned down to lowish. And my system is way above the recommended specs for the game.
* Lareolan walks away grumbling about poor engine optimizations and improper culling (Especially backface culling).
when i beat people and i tell them im on 56k they say thats an advantage..................... go figure?
i would agree with you lexx i think fps affects rof becuase ive seen speed cannons go spastic on some chars in chaos caves while mine is sadly left chugging away *cries*
ask fenyx hes got a gay ass mutha system, he doesnt seem to pvp better than anyone else becuase of it.
i dont think fps affects pvp much unless you are OPwarring or if you are dueling with 7 fps u wont be able to hit shit :D
arw poor lexxuk =/
i dont have myself more than 20 frames
:(
Psycho_Soldier
24-11-03, 10:36
Originally posted by REMUS
when i beat people and i tell them im on 56k they say thats an advantage..................... go figure?
I heard it makes the other person appear slower than they really are making it easier for you to hit. Some other similar bugs are like when you see someone at the top of grav lift and they really arent there, but if you shoot them (at the top of grav lift) it still hurts them.
I have a strong system so I get very good FPS but my PING is never less than 200. Even though I am on broadband, I live on the US West Coast so I am 9 (I think) time zones away from the damn servers. How important do you think PING is? I know that on other FPS games, PING makes a huge difference to me.
i'd like to see any of you PvP on my system when anything moves on my screen.
FPS registers as 0
however drop me in Half-life and give me shotty + LJ module and i'll show you PvP :p
No offence Lexx, i think thats bollocks. I have a shit FPS now, and hardly ever lose a fight.
Skill > FPS
QuantumDelta
24-11-03, 11:48
Originally posted by L0KI
No offence Lexx, i think thats bollocks. I have a shit FPS now, and hardly ever lose a fight.
Skill > FPS
Having the typical 10 FPS Max per duel and even down to 5 or (lowest stably...) 3 at an op fight, I agree with Fangers here.
Skill > FPS.
BUT It does make a huge difference...
I wish I could move like everyone else does, but I can't, so I make up for it by other means....
Shadow Dancer
24-11-03, 11:49
I get 125 fps in the city.
pwnd
FPS > skill.............
Naw, skill = fps.......
I've noticed whirth low FPS i was hitting people much more they seemed to be really slow on my old system, and i blasted the living shit out them, now i run on massive fps *cough* and everyones soooooo much faster heh, spose its improving my skill but its a pain in the arse.
Oath.
How do I become uber and death-dealing in op wars?
Easy, roll to an apu - point n click.
Speed of pc is a factor in pvp, as if you have 10 fps, you arent going to do as well as someone with 40 - althought damage is client side - so you can still do the damage with 10 fps.
Ping doesnt matter really, seems most of the 'hit calculations' are done client side.
Hence i have 30 ping, will often have hit my target and by then have run 20 miles away - but then i get hit as according to someone's lagged connection, i am still on their screen - and they scored a hit, so the server acts accordingly.
this is probably the most frustrating part of neocron - as if you are on the slower connection, combat is very much dicatated by you. If your conn is so slow (as it is for some) that im still on your screen for several seconds, and then i warp miles away - you had me on your screen damaging me for several seconds, and now im 20 miles away : i still take the damage.
this is why nearly every game has moved to server side attack/damage. If neocron moves to this everyone on a modem would be stuffed (well most - there will obviously be good high ping players)
As most games go, lower ping and higher fps gives a good advantage, and enables you to use your natural talent / praciticed skill to its fullest.
FPS skills due equate to some(read: not a great deal) of the pvp in Neocron.
Several classes, such as monks are pretty much point n click.
For this game to rewards FPS skill, they would have to
a) remove any auto hit weapons - so bye bye point n click spells
b) remove preprogrammed missing of weapons - i.e plasma bursts all go where you fire them
This game is far more RPG than FPS imo, and this game will not improve any skills related to FPS's.
FPS Skill does not translate from one game to another in nc's case.
If you are a UT/Q/HL god, you will not automatically be awesome here. Only your natural aim will help.(and even thats compromised due to preprogrammed misses) If you have a low ping, i think you may actually be disadvantaged compared to hpb's.
Same with NC, if you are a good pvp player - dont think you can jump in a true FPS game and own. You will most likely get slaughtered - especially true if on a high ping.
I know people like formula's here - so here you go
Good FPS player = low ping (20%) + hardware(15%) + natural skill (50%) + practiced skill (15%)
Good NC PvP'r = high ping (15%) + setup (45%) + hardware (10%) + natural skill (10%) + practiced skill (20%)
as always feel free to argue with me :)
@ Evs.
Im pretty good with FPS games in general, but im a lot better at NC. I havent always been good, id say it was 0% natural ability for myself. It took lots of practice figuring out where to shoot etc, how to move around, setups etc etc.
For example, i aim for the legs with my first 3 shots fired, then i hit the head and only the head, constantly moving about without using the "S" key (slower movement).
It's safe to say that a rarely lose a fight. My ping is incredibly low, as i have a 2mb/s connection.
I have an "average" FPS, of about 40ish, lots of ram, and good processor, but not too great a GFX card.
I seem to play equally well on my laptop which has an FPS of around 20.
I would say its more like this:
30% setup > 50% practiced skill > 10 % Natural skill > 10% combination of lag & FPS
And of course, i expect people to argue with me :p
Originally posted by evs
If you are a UT/Q/HL god, you will not automatically be awesome here. Only your natural aim will help.(and even thats compromised due to preprogrammed misses) If you have a low ping, i think you may actually be disadvantaged compared to hpb's.
I can get myself near-death-drunk and still be able to aim; once i get my sight within the targetting reticule of the mob/player and got enough skill (WPL) - i will hit. Aiming exp from other FPS games wont matter much in NC but other skills will.
I think the clients must be doing damage checks, i ran in to the aggies a few times to get myself killed and every time i saw the dude shoot at me where i was 2-3 seconds ago (observing client1-> server -> client2 -> server -> Client1) and that did register as damage.
Shadow Dancer
24-11-03, 12:39
Originally posted by evs
Easy, roll to an apu - point n click.
ROFLMA............no.
Btw I was always apu.
ROFLMA............no.
Btw I was always apu.
sorry i admit that was a bit of a blatant troll for you shad :D
I think the clients must be doing damage checks, i ran in to the aggies a few times to get myself killed and every time i saw the dude shoot at me where i was 2-3 seconds ago (observing client1-> server -> client2 -> server -> Client1) and that did register as damage.
i agree with you.
if the game was changed from client side to server side - it would an unbelievably massive change.
you could no longer hit things you cant see, pings would make a huge difference etc
@ L0KI
Yeah i can see where you are coming from - still setup n practice are the 2 largest factors in good pvp.
oh and having a high ping helps ;)
No one play as well on 5fps as on 40, that's a fact.
Winning in PvP imo. is as follows:
30% hardware (including ping) - 40% setup - 30% skill (aiming and using your brain for tactics)
I disagree that NC PvP is very different from for instance, CS. The speed which you aim and your ability to multitask in a fight is enhanced by CS.
Most people I have meet on Uranus says I'm very good at aiming, but I have maybe played 20-30 duels in NC EVER? My skills come from other games (what skills you moronic n00b ;)).
my problem with the low frame rate, was purely aiming, i couldnt aim because my system couldnt keep up with the movements in neocron, having someone run around you, at 5 fps, in 5 seconds, thats 25 frames, if they are at 30 frames per second, thats 150 frames, and is the difference between seeing you every now and then, and seeing you constantly (human eye cant see faster than 30fps, just makes it look smoother @ higher fps).
Now i can actually shoot pistol pe's who are running around, cept with lag warp, blergh, i can shoot rifle pe's, tanks etc. simply because higher frame rates "lets" you see them, even 20fps is better than 5 fps or 10 frames per second, and that is the point, pvp is based on frame rates, when you reach a certain fps, it wont matter at all, then it will be pure resist/setup/skill, but where framerate is involved in the math, low fps = mucho harderer, and if you can win 90% of ur fights with 5 fps, then with 50fps, u'r gunna win even more.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
ROFLMA............no.
Btw I was always apu.
sorry shad but monks are point and click. get a reticle and if you still pwn i will be more impressed
Originally posted by L0KI
It's safe to say that a rarely lose a fight. My ping is incredibly low, as i have a 2mb/s connection.
I have an "average" FPS, of about 40ish, lots of ram, and good processor, but not too great a GFX card.
I seem to play equally well on my laptop which has an FPS of around 20.
There isn't all THAT much difference between 40FPS and 20FPS. When you get a problem is when you're like me who normally gets ~20 fps in the game, which is pretty playable in PvM. But in PvP situations it drops down to 10FPS for 1 on 1, and then even further to 3-5FPS with occasional (and sometimes frequent) freezes where the graphics don't update at all for a second or two in intense situations like a massive OP fight. So high ping or low ping, none of those really help when the person I'm trying to aim for is on my screen one frame and is gone the next frame. How can skill compensate for that exactly? I sure as heck don't see that happening.
Promethius
24-11-03, 20:22
What is everyone settings. Cuz atm i get the uber shitz for FPS. I go from 7 - 24 fps per fights generally around 12. Tho i got all my details up max cuz well i don't notice a FPS increase on anything i cahnge (including ressolution). Though I've tried window mode on an OP war. It helped a bit.
So wat do u all have for ur F11 settings?
umm, F11, all except veg at maximum (veg is at off) hardware T/L and full sky. nvidia settings r quality image, 2x antistropic thingy and 2x anti-alasing, running at 800x600@32bit on a Athlon XP2200 wiv 256MB ram and a geforce4 mx440
Dribble Joy
24-11-03, 20:35
For some reason fog vs no fog I get very little difference in fps.
In a duel I'm lucky to get above 20 fps, I can't even go to OP fights, just standing alone at escudor oasis gets me 7 fps.
Aside from th problems with aiming, fps still affects runspeed as-per vehicles previously. I might do a lot better in fights if I wasn't suck a slow poke.
In f11 I have all at middle apart from vegitation. full sky.
Ansitropic filtering I have at x16 (takes away precious cpu onto the GFX)
Antialiasing I haven't noticed much diffenence whether at x2 or 6, again probably because it's all handled by the GFX.
I have a 1.4 athlon with 512 ddr, radeon 9500.
Promethius
24-11-03, 20:38
Originally posted by Lexxuk
umm, F11, all except veg at maximum (veg is at off) hardware T/L and full sky. nvidia settings r quality image, 2x antistropic thingy and 2x anti-alasing, running at 800x600@32bit on a Athlon XP2200 wiv 256MB ram and a geforce4 mx440
Well i use same F11 settings. I run at 1280 x 1024 x 32 antistrpophic / antialasing off. nvidia geforce ti 4600. on 1.3 athlon with 768mb DDR ram.
plaza 1 = 10 fps =\
NEOCRON IS ALL A SCAM CREATED BY Micro$oft TO GET US TO BUY BETTER COMPS!!!!!111one
well my frames aren't the best either.. i get great frames when everyone is standing around.. even better when the whole server lags out.. and nothing moves..
but the problems for me is the op fights or monk fights.. if a monk starts tossin stuff i can't hit a thing..
and i have a great vid card and sound card.. the problem is the games bizarre way of not letting the graphics card actually render the graphics.. so the cpu does most of the work.. and well my cpu is only an amd athlon 1.4 gig..
CPU = FPS, on my old system, i went from Geforce 2 to 4, and noticed minimal change, the change between 2 and 4 *now* is the same as my geforce4 on my old system, so the game is very cpu intensive.
Shadow Dancer
25-11-03, 00:21
Originally posted by icarium
sorry shad but monks are point and click.
Is it really so hard to read? Have you lost that ability? I never said they weren't point and click.
Originally posted by icarium
get a reticle and if you still pwn i will be more impressed
Yes because i care about impressing you right? Actually no.
:rolleyes:
PLEASE somebody tell me the command to see Frame Rate and Ping?
Shadow Dancer
25-11-03, 00:27
Originally posted by NeoChick
PLEASE somebody tell me the command to see Frame Rate and Ping?
ALT+F
KRIMINAL99
25-11-03, 01:40
It depends what is causing your fps to go down. If you are low on memory (which for an mmorpg means like less than 500 mb alot of times lol) then your fps will drop to like 2 for a second whenever the game has to load something new... this is terrible for fights.
But if you just have a not so good video card but plenty of memory, a consistent 30 fps is probably not too big of a problem.
Shadow Dancer
25-11-03, 01:41
Isn't 30 fps good?
Cruzbroker
25-11-03, 01:43
No, 30 is on movies, it suckS! must be at least 40!.. SMOOTH FOR YOUR EYES.. (human eye sees about 25 fps)
btw. beautiful blue bird.
Some human eyes can see up to 30 fps, maybe, 19 is even fairly smooth but once you drop below 15 you're fighting a losing battle.
One of the reasons I like droning so much is the fact it's point and click, if someone is under the recticle [or has just left it] congrats you hit, otherwise you miss. Helps when I often get only 5-7 fps in fights of more then 8 people.
Seems once you are above 20 fps, you're fine. Much below that and you run into perma lag and warping.
Originally posted by REMUS
when i beat people and i tell them im on 56k they say thats an advantage..................... go figure?
i would agree with you lexx i think fps affects rof becuase ive seen speed cannons go spastic on some chars in chaos caves while mine is sadly left chugging away *cries*
ask fenyx hes got a gay ass mutha system, he doesnt seem to pvp better than anyone else becuase of it.
i dont think fps affects pvp much unless you are OPwarring or if you are dueling with 7 fps u wont be able to hit shit :D
yeah i agree about the speed cannon bug, was in the swamp caves and was having really bad lag spikes it happened twice once i was killing a bat the game paused and free'd up suddenly and i emptied a whole clip in like 3 seconds O_O
then with another bat happened just as an apu ran infront of me :D lag spike > 3 second clip > dead apu :( :lol:
was an accident but was amusing, lucky the apu forgave me after he got ressed :D:D
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