View Full Version : Neocron rewards ganking.
How come groups of 6+ people, 5 attackers and a hacker, get all the loot...and those of us with enough balls to pk solo without hacking skill get nothing?
The entire belt system ENCOURAGES and REWARDS ganking.
Lose the belt crap. :angel:
Mumblyfish
22-11-03, 23:49
Then the game will still reward ganking. Erm... what's your point again?
nonamebrandeggs
22-11-03, 23:50
Ganking is good.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Then the game will still reward ganking. Erm... what's your point again?
No because then people on thier own will get the same loot as people who gank.
How does that reward ganking any more then soloing?
1 + 1 = 2 ....
Very good. Heh.
very interesting ---- never thought about it that way
the belt is definately good ---- no question about that
but your point is valid
and yeah, the group gangbang is lame
nonamebrandeggs
22-11-03, 23:53
Ganking is killing with 1 person, ganking is killing with pi persons.
Killing is killing with 1 person, Killing with lots of people is killing with > 1 person.
Mumblyfish
22-11-03, 23:54
Because, as you argue, the current system rewards people who go around in teams to kill, as they get all the loot due to having hackers available.
In YOUR system, sans the quickbelt drop, the game will reward people who kill in teams even more. A large group of attackers can mob single people, and grab the loot they drop. They don't even need to wait for a hack. And if they have a PPU for ressurection, they fear nothing.
Your point was..?
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Because, as you argue, the current system rewards people who go around in teams to kill, as they get all the loot due to having hackers available.
In YOUR system, sans the quickbelt drop, the game will reward people who kill in teams even more. A large group of attackers can mob single people, and grab the loot they drop. They don't even need to wait for a hack. And if they have a PPU for ressurection, they fear nothing.
Your point was..?
Wrong.
I am talking about balance.
Solo pk without hacker gets nothing.
Group pk will have a hacker and get everything.
If there was no belt drop...
Solo pk without hacker gets loot
Group pk gets loot.
Everyones on the same basis. Come on this is basic stuff here, it doesn't take much brain power to figure it out. Or are you the ganking type yourself?
Mumblyfish
22-11-03, 23:57
But why get rid of the hacker's primary use? Sure, hacking OPs is useful. AND OH GOD DON'T FORGET THE WARBOTS!
Don't eliminate a tradeskill, please. And without help, you shouldn't get anything. Make friends.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
But why get rid of the hacker's primary use? Sure, hacking OPs is useful. AND OH GOD DON'T FORGET THE WARBOTS!
Don't eliminate a tradeskill, please. And without help, you shouldn't get anything. Make friends.
I have plenty of friends. But unlike most biotechs and other city factions with no skill, I am also fully able to solo whenever possible...I also find it more fun because there is absolutely no challange in ganking.
I now see that you enjoy ganking or staying in a safe zone...I pity you...this thread is not for your type, its for those of us who have skills.
i agree g0rt, i go solo most the time, be it PP/MB or anywhere else out there.
as it was before people didnt like it cos they would drop there rares, well now you get a nice safe slot to store it.
so i see no reason not to remove the belt drop.
at most you might lose your armour, not to hard to replace.
if you drop a rare then you took the chance of putting it in a non safe slot, you made the choice.
if i kill people at the MB, they drop there item in a belt, but they more then likely get it back cos im a tank and unable to hack.
where as if i die in the MB i drop my belt and will get it hacked.
kinda seems stacked against the guy whos got the balls dont you think.
kinda seems stacked against the guy whos got the balls dont you think.
Thats what im saying. Or you could bring your hacker ppu friend with you and gank the crap out of everyone, el-no-skill style and hack the belts and get the loot.
Right there you were REWARDED for ganking the MB, instead of trying to do it on your own and actually having a challenge.
Its a shame.
Mumblyfish
23-11-03, 00:15
[edited] You want to reach a consensus on whether your idea is good or not? Then how about getting the opinions of people who aren't in your mindset, or your [edited] group of "skilled" players?
If you don't want people who don't agree with you (shock/horror) in this thread, then just say so. In doing that, your idea loses all credibility. I tried to be civil, and tried to provide some kind of counter-argument, but since you can't accept that... [edited].
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
[edited] You want to reach a consensus on whether your idea is good or not? Then how about getting the opinions of people who aren't in your mindset, or your [edited] group of "skilled" players?
If you don't want people who don't agree with you (shock/horror) in this thread, then just say so. In doing that, your idea loses all credibility. I tried to be civil, and tried to provide some kind of counter-argument, but since you can't accept that... [edited].
You're just a ganker, get off my thread...as i stated its for people with skills, like ezza here....we get the point, you dont.
Leave please.
Mumblyfish
23-11-03, 00:36
I don't PvP. Ganker?
I agree ... . .and as for hackers and tradeskills .. they should give hackers something that's really good and not this lame belt drop . . you don't need a hacker . you need lockpick skill :rolleyes: . . . how about make hackers get a better reward by being able to even hack the backpack . and if they do it fast enough .. they get ANOTHER item :eek: . . . make another dungeon area . .. only tech lvl setup like tech haven .. with hardcore turrents in the walls and bots . .. .. you have to fight to a cetain point . . and get the hacker to turn off certain defenses . ..like trip mines and such that no one would survive . . . . dont' make the hack correctly . . and it can trigger a countdown that sends explosions throughout the place killing everyone .. even PPUs :D . . . NOW that would be a good hacker use . . . especially if at the end where boxes that contained some new special rare parts or something . .
anyhow .. make either the belts non hackable .. or have item fall on ground like old days
One should be able to grab the belts into your inv, and for a hacker to hack it open, he should find a quiet location so he can drop the belt onto a table in his apt to hack it open for example.
Although id keep the belts and hold them ransom heheheh...
Shadow Dancer
23-11-03, 00:48
The belt system is silly IMO. Safeslot AND Belt? Lame. Either one or the other but both? Pfftttt. With the rare drop rate the way it is, I think the safeslot should stay but the belt system should go. Either that or let us keep the belts so we could bring it to someone to get it hacked.
ah . . . picking up belts would be nice . . . but i can see it now .. hacker tradeskillers in plaza 1 . .
I love the idea of picking up the belt. That way, the loot is yours... whether you hack or not. Then you can either get a friend or tradeskill hacker to hack it for you, or you can hack it later instead of in the heat of combat if you hack yourself.
GREAT idea there.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
But why get rid of the hacker's primary use? Sure, hacking OPs is useful. AND OH GOD DON'T FORGET THE WARBOTS!
Don't eliminate a tradeskill, please. And without help, you shouldn't get anything. Make friends.
I still like the idea of picking up belts and taking them to a hacker to be haxed. Hacking is not a tradeskill as you put it, but would become one under that system. As it is, a lone tank for instance cannot take stuff from people he kills (unless he's dumb enough to hack + the belt is low sl), and a lone hacker goes to great risks in some areas to take 30 seconds to hack it.
Semi-OT: And can we PLEASE get rid of dogtags while we're on this morbid subject. All they serve to do is get in the way of targeting corpses, I very rarely see any bought or sold. Waste of space.
Shadow Dancer
23-11-03, 01:24
Maybe combine dog tags with Rade's idea of locating people via a citycom. That way it won't be used to grief non stop. If you have someone's dog tags you can insert it into a citycom via an option, and locate them. Then it'll be "used up". Perhaps involve hacking in it as well.
Haha that's fantastic, a continous cycle of gankage :)
Bob Monkhouse
23-11-03, 01:59
Belts should be openable by either the victim or the killer with no hacking, and hackable by everyone else.
That way, if you die to a mob, your item is relatively safe, but if a player kills you they get the spoils of victory.
I have to ask, when you get killed by a player, how often do you go back to get your belt straight away? Common sense tells me to stay away for a while or die again, so I tend to write off what I drop. ( and 9/10 times its something crap). Often by the time I get back to it, either the killer or a random hacker has opened it. I actually feel worse when its a random hacker, since they are getting MY item without having earned it.
Shadow Dancer
23-11-03, 02:00
That's a good idea too Bob.
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
Belts should be openable by either the victim or the killer with no hacking, and hackable by everyone else.
That way, if you die to a mob, your item is relatively safe, but if a player kills you they get the spoils of victory.
I have to ask, when you get killed by a player, how often do you go back to get your belt straight away? Common sense tells me to stay away for a while or die again, so I tend to write off what I drop. ( and 9/10 times its something crap). Often by the time I get back to it, either the killer or a random hacker has opened it. I actually feel worse when its a random hacker, since they are getting MY item without having earned it.
Yeah also a good idea
nice idea bob although i thought i posted that before too :)
bbut none like me :( so thay dont talk in my forums.
also i would liek some cash for ganking someone like adding 2 zeros to their rank for killing them and neg a certain % from impairment so peeps dont earn quick cash from gring and killing.
and rezzing should take cash away :) that might stop spys at ops and exploiting my idea :)
Originally posted by BombShell
nice idea bob although i thought i posted that before too :)
bbut none like me :( so thay dont talk in my forums.
also i would liek some cash for ganking someone like adding 2 zeros to their rank for killing them and neg a certain % from impairment so peeps dont earn quick cash from gring and killing.
and rezzing should take cash away :) that might stop spys at ops and exploiting my idea :)
How about you gank them , take their belt, and hold it ransom for an ammount of money?
Originally posted by Duder
How about you gank them , take their belt, and hold it ransom for an ammount of money?
i tried that once the guy ended up being a dick saying beep off and i got another one :) so i just tossed it.
if they kept the belts it would be nice to beable to pick em up to crack em open later.
atm the killer is in a no win situation, no matter how many people he kills, he'll still not get anything for his troubles, the risk is all one-sided
well I think it could be better if a cash cube dropped sometimes from the person you ganked .. . sorta like stealing their wallet ... with varying percents of your total amount of money
but really dont u guys think we should get cash for illing someone. becuase its just ur faction paying u off and maybe lose money for killing a allie instead of losing that damn -sl.
so lets say u hav a ass in the faction and u cant take it u can kill him and lose 7000 do to his rank being xx/70+00 = 7k cash and if u gank allies ot much ur broke and when ur out of cash u get like -20 sl so this way u can kill those allies from ganking u insterad of losing sl. i rathe rpay not to die wouldnt u :)
the cash cube option would be good, i think style had a thread about that.
edit: this was styles thread http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75278
OMG someone responded to my post
*HUGS*
err *cough* n/m :p
Originally posted by ezza
if they kept the belts it would be nice to beable to pick em up to crack em open later.
atm the killer is in a no win situation, no matter how many people he kills, he'll still not get anything for his troubles, the risk is all one-sided
nice idea i didnt think of that which is y i love it so much :)
pick it up and take it to a hacker like killing a mob and finding a rare part :)
and how about a vender looking for belts u sell them for like 20k and it stays in the venders window in abc order and u hav to make a decition would it be a rare or heal would it be worth to sell or wut. but then my extra thought wouldnt work since i can gnak nubs all day and sell belts for cash :(
but i love ur add on to it :) but then may as well live belts open
Originally posted by amfest
well I think it could be better if a cash cube dropped sometimes from the person you ganked .. . sorta like stealing their wallet ... with varying percents of your total amount of money
I think the ammount should be random, with the minimum 1k to max 1 million? heheh.
a million! . .lol ... we're not sueing bill gates here . . .lol ..
well they may as well leave the belt open, but then at least this way the hackers will still get something to do.
maybe hacking that way would be more proffitable, pick the belt up take it to the dodgy pepper park back street hacker dude, hack it open you get the loot he gets a nice bit of credit for his work
i dunno something along those lines.
Edit: to duders million credit cash kills thingy, maybe there should be a percentage based idea.
so you kill a clanned enemy of rank xx/60 you get say 10% of his cash.
while the allied noob you killed would only drop 1% of his cash.
maybe something along those lines could be implemented?
(the figures and %ages are just rough)
... almost anyone can spec hacking... don't want to... doesn't bother me.
I mean... it's not like you need a lot.. 100 hacking is enough to open almost anything with a few tries for high SL belts, that's 35 int levels in hacking alone - only a problem for tanks really. Only thing I can say is if you don't want to spend the points on hacking then don't complain about not being able to hack things. :rolleyes:
I like the current system - but wouldn't be bothered if the locked slot was open until the player had 50+ SL instead of being above -15.
I know specialization is important, but there really isn't much gain in having over say 110 weapon lore since you can get boosts of up to +85 from imps.
Allowing belts to be picked up and carried would be the same idea as the removal of the belts - 3 seconds later whatever was dropped is gone, this way people have the chance to come back and get their stuff, or have a team mate pick it up for them.
Hacking is pretty useless as a tradeskill, ops, belts [yes you can call a hacker to a belt] and warbots are about all there is, hackable doors are nice, but there are very few in the game and most are in very low level areas. While I'd love to see more use for the hacking skill, lets not try and circumvent a game mechanic with an idea to "improve" a tradeskill [which it really doesn't] with an idea that would be the same as the removal of that game mechanic.
Edit: For those tanks that DO find this to be a problem, let me ask if you also complain about not being able to self cast level 2/3 boosts or holy level spells. Hacking is an int skill, the cap is decided when you pick your class, not being able to have a high hack skill is something whomever chooses to play a tank decides the moment they create their char. Just like calling a hacker to a belt, so too do psi's need to be called on to give their support.
In my opinion they shouldn't have changed the way items dropped when someone dies.
They should have added something to the game to make hackers more valuble, not change the way that something works when its already in the game.
They should make belts lootable only by the person that dealt the killing blow, and make it lootable without having to hack it.
Originally posted by Ehyuko
... almost anyone can spec hacking... don't want to... doesn't bother me.
I mean... it's not like you need a lot.. 100 hacking is enough to open almost anything with a few tries for high SL belts, that's 35 int levels in hacking alone - only a problem for tanks really. Only thing I can say is if you don't want to spend the points on hacking then don't complain about not being able to hack things. :rolleyes:
I like the current system - but wouldn't be bothered if the locked slot was open until the player had 50+ SL instead of being above -15.
I know specialization is important, but there really isn't much gain in having over say 110 weapon lore since you can get boosts of up to +85 from imps.
Allowing belts to be picked up and carried would be the same idea as the removal of the belts - 3 seconds later whatever was dropped is gone, this way people have the chance to come back and get their stuff, or have a team mate pick it up for them.
Hacking is pretty useless as a tradeskill, ops, belts [yes you can call a hacker to a belt] and warbots are about all there is, hackable doors are nice, but there are very few in the game and most are in very low level areas. While I'd love to see more use for the hacking skill, lets not try and circumvent a game mechanic with an idea to "improve" a tradeskill [which it really doesn't] with an idea that would be the same as the removal of that game mechanic.
Edit: For those tanks that DO find this to be a problem, let me ask if you also complain about not being able to self cast level 2/3 boosts or holy level spells. Hacking is an int skill, the cap is decided when you pick your class, not being able to have a high hack skill is something whomever chooses to play a tank decides the moment they create their char. Just like calling a hacker to a belt, so too do psi's need to be called on to give their support.
if the belt remains, what does the killer get out of it? nothing.
and spells arnt needed, where as if you want the loot you have to be a hacker, oh right i forgot tanks cant be hackers, oh well fuck the tanks no loot for themo_O
i got the kill i should be able to get the loot, the one class breed for killing and they get the least out of it of all the classes.
Originally posted by Lenard
In my opinion they shouldn't have changed the way items dropped when someone dies.
They should have added something to the game to make hackers more valuble, not change the way that something works when its already in the game.
They should make belts lootable only by the person that dealt the killing blow, and make it lootable without having to hack it.
I agree, just like a mob
@Ehyuko - show me a tank that can be GOOD and hack all belts with self buffs...yes even those 100sl belts...oh wait, you cant...GG
Allow me to quote myself:
Edit: For those tanks that DO find this to be a problem, let me ask if you also complain about not being able to self cast level 2/3 boosts or holy level spells. Hacking is an int skill, the cap is decided when you pick your class, not being able to have a high hack skill is something whomever chooses to play a tank decides the moment they create their char. Just like calling a hacker to a belt, so too do psi's need to be called on to give their support.
So some people don't feel the need to be buffed, that's your choice - just like being a tank. As I have quoted, you're picking your stat and therefore skill limits at character creation, want to be a tank, fine, but no stealth or high level psi abilities/hacking for you! If you decide you want to research/construct will you complain about the unfairness of that too or roll a spy?
I don't see the point you're trying to make g0rt, if you want loot go kill mobs or make bets on duels, if you want to kill someone go ahead - but why complain about not getting loot? I see no reason for players to farm GRs to try to get items from others when it's already easy for players to get rareparts and cash.
Basicly you want a reward for killing someone... yay, you now have dogtags and omg if you bring a hacker you might get an item. But if you want items... why are you not trying to get them from places where you can actually do so [ie: mobs again], the thrill of pvp is in facing a skilled opponent and winning - not the TL3 heal you managed to get from them. :rolleyes:
Wait wait, i can see a counter arguement coming... the thrill of losing items, yep, sure. Seen that many times, nothing stopping you from throwing away your weapons when you die, but there is no reason to force everyone to just because a few people want it that way and decide because they want it, everyone else must also follow their lead.
MacenzieWolf
23-11-03, 08:32
Solo hackers dont get it any easier anway, when im soloing MB I dont want to open myself up for a ganking by standing there hacking a belt, would be better if you could still actualy SEE whats going on around you when hacking.
Anyway on the belt thing i'm still undecided, i mean yeah i would like loot when soloing but then again I dont want my stuff lost so easy. Then again if i die in MB then im certinaly never going to get that loot back.
Ehyuko - a trade skill is one thing. Denying a class access to reward for killing thier enemy is pure bullshit, and you know it.
If there was belt pickup then it should only be allowed with...
1. If you killed a faction enemy (not allied/neutral)
2. Only the PK'er can pick up the belt
3. The belts weigh a lot so there is a limit to the amount they can carry.
There should also be some kind of broadcast on stolen belts so you get something like "Runner xxxx has just hacked your belt" (not for on the floor ones, only stolen). Otherwise the hacker is getting more protected then they should be.
Also the belt can only be handed off to the hacker in a trade window. If the belt is dropped it cannot be hacked or picked up (if the belt is dropped in a different zone only). Only the owner can open it at that stage. This is to stop alt character handoffs.
Also the belt can only be handed off to the hacker in a trade window. If the belt is dropped it cannot be hacked or picked up (if the belt is dropped in a different zone only). Only the owner can open it at that stage. This is to stop alt character handoffs.
Good idea though it wont' stop people with multiple accounts and have 2 computers at least hooked up to the net . . but ah well .. . cant' win em all
I heard D2 just got an update, why don't you go back to playing it, if you want to farm other players......
Originally posted by Spoon
I heard D2 just got an update, why don't you go back to playing it, if you want to farm other players......
Because I want to farm other players in Neocron. Its fun. Its called pvp. Its why you play an online game. If you wanted to fight monsters you can do it for 0$/month, and save your bandwidth in a single player game.
Originally posted by ezza
as it was before people didnt like it cos they would drop there rares, well now you get a nice safe slot to store it.
so i see no reason not to remove the belt drop.
at most you might lose your armour, not to hard to replace.
if you drop a rare then you took the chance of putting it in a non safe slot, you made the choice.
Rares aren't the only things that are valuable. Let's look at a PPU. Holy Paralysis. rare. Holy Catharsis/Sanctum. rare. Holy heal, Holy Shelter and Holy Deflector, non rare but they need high slots to be effective, therefore they are expensive. Power armor. expensive. That's at least 6 things you don't want to lose. Out of the top 10 most valuable items that drop, those are bad odds. Then the rest of the PPU's inventory is 20-30k costing spells.
PPUs aren't the only ones... For me, a pistol PE, I carry around 2 rares (ray of last hope and liberator), stealth 2, PA lvl 4, and 3 spells that need constructing (shelter, blessed deflector, damage boost). Again, 6 / 10 possible items that I really would not like to be dropped. Yes, i need all that crap, the 2 guns for different situations because ray of last hope does 0 damage to monks, and monks make up at least 50% of pluto.
Just because tanks only needs a CS, a tangent speed gun (which doesnt drop), and armor doesn't mean all classes are like that. For tanks... the only thing that can drop is power armor, and what do you know, tanks are the only class that can just walk up and buy it. PEs and Spies have to do a quest, or if they skip it they have to GR to foster, an OP zone, that's mostly closed off to everyone but 1 faction. And the NPCs are always dead or broken. Monks have to collect parts and buy the tank armor. Their NPC is often dead or broken as well.
Anyway......
I think... they should take out the item drop completely, but make money drop based on the difference in combat level at the end of the fight. Also increase the synaptic imparement after death, and add some after resurrection, so someone can't just spring back and fight again.
If belts do still drop, how about making weapons have an activation, like apartments. When it is first made, you have to activate it, and it gets your name on it. For example: Artifact X-Heated Cursed Soul constructed by Zai, registered to Varaem . If you own the weapon, you can deactivate it and trade it so people can use it. If you don't deactivate it, then if someone somehow gets it (by accident or in a belt or something), they'd have to hack the weapon to deactivate it. Difficulty would be based on the weapon's TL.
Maybe only high-tech weapons would have this? Maybe armor and spells too?
RP reason: Weapons in the future would have sensors in the grip that detect who the user of the weapon is, so that if it is stolen, it won't work. Police in modern times are investing in something similar, so if a criminal grabs their sidearm they can't be shot by their own gun.
Originally posted by g0rt
Because I want to farm other players in Neocron. Its fun. Its called pvp. Its why you play an online game. If you wanted to fight monsters you can do it for 0$/month, and save your bandwidth in a single player game.
If you wan to play an lonely psychopath (i.e. serial killer), then do it, but don't expect anyone or the game system to support you. Why make a game fun for 1% of the people while the remaining 99% should suffer for this? Besides there is already too much ganking going on due to this silly faction/SL-system.
Originally posted by g0rt
Because I want to farm other players in Neocron. Its fun. Its called pvp. Its why you play an online game. If you wanted to fight monsters you can do it for 0$/month, and save your bandwidth in a single player game.
That's rather bull. If this game was strictly all about PvP there wouldn't be any mobs to hunt, you'd simply shoot every other player you see.
Whether you like it or not, some people like the game for its fun mob hunting, and the occasional faction based PvP. It has nothing to do with "skillz" or being a carebear, so don't go that route either. Everyone likes a game for their own reasons, and its horribly unfair to ruin what a person finds fun in the game just to make your fun better.
The system for "ganking" (or rather, cowardly PvP) is fine as it is. People work hard for their rare weapons and to lose something that can take upwards of a month to get to some dickhole who pk's you while you're hunting a warbot is just wrong. Not everyone is PvP ready in the game with the uberest resists and rares either, so what you propose would make it even worse.
If you want an uber pking server than just wait for Neptune and go have a field day. Leave the current servers as they are.
No.... Lets take away ressing and cst and pokeing to...
If we dont have that a solo runner on pluto can do anything without asking anyone!!!!! Yea.... To be honest this thread is a bad idea =) Tradeskill is a good way to interact with people ingame so keep on doing that.
Or just lom to hack.....
I think no one should carry any items with them then theres no loot for u problem Solved!! Also no belt drop or safe slot needed so SD will be happy or at be quiet for a bit
Originally posted by Varaem
Rares aren't the only things that are valuable. Let's look at a PPU. Holy Paralysis. rare. Holy Catharsis/Sanctum. rare. Holy heal, Holy Shelter and Holy Deflector, non rare but they need high slots to be effective, therefore they are expensive. Power armor. expensive. That's at least 6 things you don't want to lose. Out of the top 10 most valuable items that drop, those are bad odds. Then the rest of the PPU's inventory is 20-30k costing spells.
PPUs aren't the only ones... For me, a pistol PE, I carry around 2 rares (ray of last hope and liberator), stealth 2, PA lvl 4, and 3 spells that need constructing (shelter, blessed deflector, damage boost). Again, 6 / 10 possible items that I really would not like to be dropped. Yes, i need all that crap, the 2 guns for different situations because ray of last hope does 0 damage to monks, and monks make up at least 50% of pluto.
Just because tanks only needs a CS, a tangent speed gun (which doesnt drop), and armor doesn't mean all classes are like that. For tanks... the only thing that can drop is power armor, and what do you know, tanks are the only class that can just walk up and buy it. PEs and Spies have to do a quest, or if they skip it they have to GR to foster, an OP zone, that's mostly closed off to everyone but 1 faction. And the NPCs are always dead or broken. Monks have to collect parts and buy the tank armor. Their NPC is often dead or broken as well.
Anyway......
I think... they should take out the item drop completely, but make money drop based on the difference in combat level at the end of the fight. Also increase the synaptic imparement after death, and add some after resurrection, so someone can't just spring back and fight again.
If belts do still drop, how about making weapons have an activation, like apartments. When it is first made, you have to activate it, and it gets your name on it. For example: Artifact X-Heated Cursed Soul constructed by Zai, registered to Varaem . If you own the weapon, you can deactivate it and trade it so people can use it. If you don't deactivate it, then if someone somehow gets it (by accident or in a belt or something), they'd have to hack the weapon to deactivate it. Difficulty would be based on the weapon's TL.
Maybe only high-tech weapons would have this? Maybe armor and spells too?
RP reason: Weapons in the future would have sensors in the grip that detect who the user of the weapon is, so that if it is stolen, it won't work. Police in modern times are investing in something similar, so if a criminal grabs their sidearm they can't be shot by their own gun.
you use ppu as example, how often do they get killed hmm let me think not often.
if the PE is carrying 2 weapons then he has accepted the risk so if i get to steal it its tough luck on him
and i dont care what bullshit role play excuse you give the item wouldnt fall out in a belt
Originally posted by Lanigav
That's rather bull. If this game was strictly all about PvP there wouldn't be any mobs to hunt, you'd simply shoot every other player you see.
Whether you like it or not, some people like the game for its fun mob hunting, and the occasional faction based PvP. It has nothing to do with "skillz" or being a carebear, so don't go that route either. Everyone likes a game for their own reasons, and its horribly unfair to ruin what a person finds fun in the game just to make your fun better.
The system for "ganking" (or rather, cowardly PvP) is fine as it is. People work hard for their rare weapons and to lose something that can take upwards of a month to get to some dickhole who pk's you while you're hunting a warbot is just wrong. Not everyone is PvP ready in the game with the uberest resists and rares either, so what you propose would make it even worse.
If you want an uber pking server than just wait for Neptune and go have a field day. Leave the current servers as they are.
Noobs.
I can get a full rare of whatever i want usually in an hour or two.
Anyways, the belt system needs to change whether you think so or not..the only people that disagree are LE noobs or people who gank and want it to stay the way it is....no reward for having skills.
Shadow Dancer
24-11-03, 03:42
G0rt, how about a faction point system just for PvP?
You could use faction points to buy rare parts or other unique things.
It could be like cash for defeating your opponents in PvP. Like you get 10% of the faction points of the person you killed. And everyone starts with like 1000 and you can only get points by killing........
Could be tweaked, but what do you think?
Noobs.
I can get a full rare of whatever i want usually in an hour or two.
Anyways, the belt system needs to change whether you think so or not..the only people that disagree are LE noobs or people who gank and want it to stay the way it is....no reward for having skills.
Care to explain how someone that's in a very small clan is supposed to get a full rare in an hour or two? Last I checked warbots and fire mobs weren't dropping 30 techs per kill, and you need a huge collection to trade as well.
And no, the belt system doesn't need to change, because too many people will do cowardly pking (like killing people while hunting mobs, or those of a low rank), and they shouldn't be rewarded for that because that can hardly be considered "skillz". The whole reason it was implimented was to put a stopgap between people who mindlessly kill people for their items, so people won't shy away from PvP as much because they don't want to lose their hard earned items.
I'm curious how you can get a rare in an hour or two. I guess it is from trading with people or a clan?
I spent an hour warbie hunting and all I got was a PSI Resist 3 and a Adv Reflex 4. Everything else was junk.
I think it can depend a lot on the character.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 16:02
Originally posted by g0rt
Noobs.
I can get a full rare of whatever i want usually in an hour or two.
Anyways, the belt system needs to change whether you think so or not..the only people that disagree are LE noobs or people who gank and want it to stay the way it is....no reward for having skills.
well 99% of people bitch about rare drop rate... yet its amazing for you?
and strange... my spy doesnt have an LE or gank.... and i think this idea is lame...
I'm a Hacker.
I don't get the chance to make much from being a hacker. I am there to Hack OP's and occasionally i will come across a stray belt that i can hack and loot.
Thats the only two + things that a hacker of my skill level gets. And now you want to take one of them away and make it so the only thing i am good for is to hack OP's?
No thanks.
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
well 99% of people bitch about rare drop rate... yet its amazing for you?
and strange... my spy doesnt have an LE or gank.... and i think this idea is lame...
Yeah it is. On my hybrid I can harvest fire mobs so fast, and the drop rate on fire mobs is great. I can come home with 30 rares in 2 or 3 hours of harvesting fire mobs usually without a problem?
If you can cut through fire mobs fast enough, rare parts flow...
I'm a Hacker.
I don't get the chance to make much from being a hacker. I am there to Hack OP's and occasionally i will come across a stray belt that i can hack and loot.
Thats the only two + things that a hacker of my skill level gets. And now you want to take one of them away and make it so the only thing i am good for is to hack OP's?
No thanks.
Just because you can pick up a belt and hack it later doesn't mean it doesn't have to be hacked at all you know? lol?
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:04
personally my spy with inq 1 set, 50 nat fire resist ans a med fire belt DOES cut through them fast with his lib... i could outheal a single grim (until i lost my 5 slot heal :() with heal / medikit / deflector
and yet i get about a third what you claim to get
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
personally my spy with inq 1 set, 50 nat fire resist ans a med fire belt DOES cut through them fast with his lib... i could outheal a single grim (until i lost my 5 slot heal :() with heal / medikit / deflector
and yet i get about a third what you claim to get
Well, with my apu kami in i cap holy lightning...so with a heavy fire belt, heat3, holy shelter and a capped holy lightning on a dmg boosted fire mob im sure i take them down in about 1/4 the time a liberator can.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:07
OMG GM H4X
:p
well how many people have your setup? and just cos you can do that doesnt mean the game should change...
infact you called people who cant do this noobs... O_o
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
OMG GM H4X
:p
well how many people have your setup? and just cos you can do that doesnt mean the game should change...
infact you called people who cant do this noobs... O_o
In all honesty, after playing games like daoc and eq neocron is a complete joke when it comes to getting "rares"...and yes i quote it.
Also, if rares could drop, it wouldn't really change much...except that sometimes you would lose yours, and sometimes you would gain others. It all cycles....right now its you dont lose yours, and you dont gain anyone elses either..and its just kinda boring like that, no cool loot, no risk, no adrenalin rush...blah
As for the noob remark, thats just me starting some shit...I know some chars can't do that...
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:13
maybe its boring for you... but loners, people in small clans, people who just got their first rare, people who need more than 1 rare in inv... think they will like the move as much as you?
from what i have been reading of your posts you are out to boost yourself, change the game to how you want it, and generally kick up a fuss when the game isnt what you want it to be
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
maybe its boring for you... but loners, people in small clans, people who just got their first rare, people who need more than 1 rare in inv... think they will like the move as much as you?
from what i have been reading of your posts you are out to boost yourself, change the game to how you want it, and generally kick up a fuss when the game isnt what you want it to be
Im trying to make the game what people want. Because all my friends left this game. Because it sucks right now. Thats why there are 300 people on at night. On the entire game, across 5 servers. And shit games like DAoC have 45,000 people on at a time on downtime, 60,000 people prime.
This game needs to be changed if we want to see client counts, its not just me that wants it. If you can't see that, I wanna know this magic server you are on thats populated.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:21
just because changes are needed doesnt mean what you suggest is what the entire community wants. try making a poll next time. then we will see the opinion of the (forum) community. but no you just call people who argue against you 'noobs'...
that is not the way to gauge the communities opinion, thats the way to try to force your opinions on others.
i am sorry if i was blunt in my last post, however i feel it had to be said
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
just because changes are needed doesnt mean what you suggest is what the entire community wants. try making a poll next time. then we will see the opinion of the (forum) community. but no you just call people who argue against you 'noobs'...
that is not the way to gauge the communities opinion, thats the way to try to force your opinions on others.
i am sorry if i was blunt in my last post, however i feel it had to be said
Who cares what the community wants? KK has done what hte community wants and client counts are lower then ever. Tell the community to take thier carebear shit and stuff it up thier asses.
This game needs to be changed to attract more players, not please the few hundred still playing.
Originally posted by g0rt
Tell the community to take thier carebear shit and stuff it up thier asses. Carebear shit, lol
Anyone who uses the Carebear term makes me chuckle.
:lol:
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:30
Originally posted by g0rt
Im trying to make the game what people want
Originally posted by g0rt
Who cares what the community wants?
lmfao...
do i really need to continue pointing out the errors here?
KK has not done what the people want. who asked for a rare tech droprate nerf? who asked for shit freezers but stupidly powerful para? who asked for monk'o'cron? who asked them not to fix the bugs that have been there since retail?
now as you can see from this post i am far from a fanboi, however i have been talkin to a member of KK staff alot recently and i know the hard work they do. IF they change the game because of what you want - people will leave. you said yourself
Tell the community to take thier carebear shit and stuff it up thier asses, so once all the carebears quit... that will boost server numbers?
Originally posted by g0rt
Who cares what the community wants? KK has done what hte community wants and client counts are lower then ever. Tell the community to take thier carebear shit and stuff it up thier asses.
Part of me wishes that KK would actually do these 'pro-PK/PvP' changes......
Just so that I could turn around and say 'I told you so' when the numbers dont increase (and I suspect they will get worse)
But then I guess KK already know this, which is why they wont do it
Go back and look at the 'PK friendly games' thread - how many PK friendly games were identified?
One - Shadowbane (and possibly Eve depending on your taste)
Thats got to tell you something right there
who asked for a rare tech droprate nerf? who asked for shit freezers but stupidly powerful para?
You're the one fixing errors? LoL @ that.
Who asked for rare tech drop rate nerf? COMMUNITY DID. When the rares were dropping so fast that you would get 3 rares and 2 implants almost every WB, everyone cried NERF IT. Were you not here for that? I was...not with this forum acct, but I was here for it.
Who asked for shit freezers but stupidly pwoerful para? COMMUNITY DID. The community said to nerf freezers to hell, then said wait wait keep the monks para's ok since its the only attack spell that a PPU gets. Were you not here for that either?
Every fuckup in the game right now is the community's fault. This community is pathetic when it comes to asking for a nerf without thinking about it, then asking for it to be changed back after.
, so once all the carebears quit... that will boost server numbers?
Split up the carebears. Put them on thier own shitty server. Give us a real server to play on. That will boost numbers, no one plays this game anymore because of the bugs...and because htey cant have a bit of fun pvping without doing 3 hours of missions after it.
Go back and look at the 'PK friendly games' thread - how many PK friendly games were identified?
One - Shadowbane (and possibly Eve depending on your taste)
LoL yeah shadowbane...it has 2000+ people playing on the new server every day. So its doing something right. And that something is its a pvp game and thats it, you dont like pvp you can fuck off. And obviously people like that, it has 10 times the populations of Neocron servers. Coincidence?
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:40
im not even gonna quote any of that shit as i consider it flame bait... i have been here without break since beta 3. if you find me a link to a thread demanding these things you claim the community wanted then i will step down. out of curiosity for someone who is doing what the people want... why are there more people against this than for it? i see no one taking your side, yet 2 people against it
oh and for the record... shadowbane is a totally different game. FFXI has a shit load of players... how much PvP is in that? none
you are just ranting and stressing cos you cant have your way... maybe you thought this was a constructive solution... ill give you the benifit of the doubt... but learn to take critisizm rather than screaming 'STFU NOOB!!!1!1!'
Originally posted by g0rt
LoL yeah shadowbane...it has 2000+ people playing on the new server every day. So its doing something right. And that something is its a pvp game and thats it, you dont like pvp you can fuck off. And obviously people like that, it has 10 times the populations of Neocron servers. Coincidence?
err so go play Shadowbane then?......
or am I missing something here (i.e. theres got to be something you dont like about Shadowbane)
Originally posted by g0rt
no one plays this game anymore because of the bugs...and because htey cant have a bit of fun pvping without doing 3 hours of missions after it. I play? and according to the number there are people playing.
And maybe you should kill just enemy faction runnners instead and then you won't need missions :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
im not even gonna quote any of that shit as i consider it flame bait... i have been here without break since beta 3. if you find me a link to a thread demanding these things you claim the community wanted then i will step down. out of curiosity for someone who is doing what the people want... why are there more people against this than for it? i see no one taking your side, yet 2 people against it
General for this community. Anything that can help the game is looked down upon. This community is by far the worst of any online game.
Its unbelievable that people actually sit here and tell me to run checks on my PC to get neocron working right. Is that some kind of sick joke? Every other game that I play is as simple as Install and Play. No other shit. Neocron should be the same.
Something needs to be changed to get this game fun and get people playing it again. And any good ideas that come through this forum get frowned upon by this dumbshit community.
It has to be said.
And maybe you should kill just enemy faction runnners instead and then you won't need missions
My clan is at war with a tsunami clan. My clan is tg. The tsunami clan attacks me in anarchy zones. What can i do? Either die, run like a pussy, or lose SL. See? WRONG YOU ARE. 100% WRONG. I am at war with a clan and I cannot fight them without doing missions.
GOOD JOB.
Originally posted by g0rt
Its unbelievable that people actually sit here and tell me to run checks on my PC to get neocron working right. Is that some kind of sick joke? What unbelievable is that people tried to offer advice and you don't give a shit.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:46
i dont think anyone will disagree that the faction / SL system needs an overhaul...
and i have seen many good ideas be accepted by the community, however i see people refuse to believe their ideas arent good. people like you.
besides... how many good ideas make it into game? O_o
oh and if you have incompatibilities... dont expect kk to send a guyy out from germany to fix it... do it yourself O_o
Originally posted by garyu69
What unbelievable is that people tried to offer advice and you don't give a shit.
I don't need those idiots advice. They are probably a bunch of accountants pretending to know something they really have no clue about. My computer is fine, im not gonna sit here and tell anyone about it. My computer runs anyhting and everything fine. These problems are not MY problems, they are Neocron's problems. Plain and simple.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:49
/me has spent the last 2 years as the head ICT / network technician at a school for children who are physically and neurologically disabled.
/me has used more specialised equipment than you can think of.
/me has installed (hard and software) the current network and hundreds of computers.
/me cusomises software / hardware for a living.
/me builds PC's from scratch.
/me think some of this community are not idiots
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
/me has spent the last 2 years as the head ICT / network technician at a school for children who are physically and neurologically disabled.
/me has used more specialised equipment than you can think of.
/me has installed (hard and software) the current network and hundreds of computers.
/me cusomises software / hardware for a living.
/me builds PC's from scratch.
/me think some of this community are not idiots
The difference between you and me is I don't need to sit here and tell you about my education and work experiance in the IT industry. I have nothing to prove.
Neocron should run perfectly on my computer, and it doesn't, and people are trying to tell me that I should run a bunch of bullshit tests on my components. I know my system is fine, and I know my internet connection is fine...
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 17:53
good for you... i aint gotta prove shit to you... however i dont have to hide behind a computer and not say anyhting about the real me either!
now i gotta go home from work now :lol: so i am sure ill post at home in a few hours :p
Gort either you think the gameplay has driven people off or the bugs have - make up your mind
They either fix the bugs first or the PvP - make up your mind
Has it even crossed your mind that you may be the only person who thinks x/y/z need to be changed? While I imagine that some people might agree with some of your proposals I doubt youve even consider that not everyone (or even a majoritory) will agree with all your changes.
Your proposals are motivated by _self_ we are therefore fortunate that KK have to look at the bigger picture
"I know my system is fine, and I know my internet connection is fine... "
Ignorance is a wonderful place to live, and I wish I could afford to live there - I _detest_ dealing with customers who have the same outlook as you have (you dont deserve to have your problems solved because you have a closed mind to the possibilities)
Originally posted by 5150
Gort either you think the gameplay has driven people off or the bugs have - make up your mind
They either fix the bugs first or the PvP - make up your mind
Has it even crossed your mind that you may be the only person who thinks x/y/z need to be changed? While I imagine that some people might agree with some of your proposals I doubt youve even consider that not everyone (or even a majoritory) will agree with all your changes.
Your proposals are motivated by _self_ we are therefore fortunate that KK have to look at the bigger picture
Both bugs and pvp need fixing. THe pvp is shit, no hardcore pvpers are hardly left in this game. The bugs are harsh, people want to play unbugged games.
THis community only wants shit changes. Thats the problem. And the crap this community wants isn't going to bring any more players to this game. So people like you need ot step down and stop driving the game into the ground.
Originally posted by g0rt
Both bugs and pvp need fixing. THe pvp is shit, no hardcore pvpers are hardly left in this game. The bugs are harsh, people want to play unbugged games.
THis community only wants shit changes. Thats the problem. And the crap this community wants isn't going to bring any more players to this game. So people like you need ot step down and stop driving the game into the ground.
...and did we ever find out why you dont play Shadowbane?
Originally posted by 5150
...and did we ever find out why you dont play Shadowbane?
Complete noskill pvp. Its all about clicking once on the player and booya....all your spells/debuffs/etc auto-aim onto the guy. No aiming, no real pvp skill...just got to know what to cast at what time.
Standard crap...this game has way more potential then shadowbane...but with the bugs, lag, syncouts, poor pvp rulesets and other problems it will never be half of what shadowbane is.
Its a shame.
Originally posted by g0rt
Complete noskill pvp. Its all about clicking once on the player and booya....all your spells/debuffs/etc auto-aim onto the guy. No aiming, no real pvp skill...just got to know what to cast at what time.
Standard crap...this game has way more potential then shadowbane...but with the bugs, lag, syncouts, poor pvp rulesets and other problems it will never be half of what shadowbane is.
Its a shame.
Ah so you really ought to be playing Planetside then........
personally i would like to see belt drops removed and have a random item from the quckbelt only drop. "keeping the safe slot"
So any item 2-10 in the quickbelt would drop.
or the other way which would be nice is.
No safeslot, belt drop in anarchy and hunting zones, so u could drop any item including the feared safe item but it drops in a belt that can be picked up.
or the other lastly
no quickbelts, no safeslot, any 1 item from your person drops random, not the current 9 outta 10 times i drop my shelter bs.
Or we can keep it the way it is and loose the players who make a return to the game.
How many people have you seen re-joining the comunity only to say goodbye again in a month due to the bugs, rules, complete game changes, monkacron etc etc
Originally posted by stigmata
How many people have you seen re-joining the comunity only to say goodbye again in a month due to the bugs, rules, complete game changes, monkacron etc etc
Aint that the truth? And yet...these people want to keep it the way it is, no one wants to make it a challenge or any kind of fun whatsoever.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-03, 20:39
did i say i liked it as it is? or did i say i didnt like your idea (or even that the general playerbase doesnlt like your idea)?
Complete noskill pvp. Its all about clicking once on the player and booya....all your spells/debuffs/etc auto-aim onto the guy. No aiming, no real pvp skill...just got to know what to cast at what time.
See, that's just it. If the changes you want to happen go through, all that will encourage is more no-skill PVP. People will camp GRs (Tech Haven and Military Base will become hell), people will kill others while they have a Grim Chaser or two on them, people will kill droners of any kind without a thought while they're hunting, and all those people will lose their items, possibly an item that will either be extremely difficult or even impossble for them to replace.
The only thing that this will aid is the cowardly gankers who have 0 skill and have to resort to this bullshit, and the huge clans because they'll make smaller clans even weaker by taking all their equipment.
You can't cater to only the hardcore audience in any game, and leave everyone else in the dust. I can guarantee you that a lot more people will leave with your changes than those that would if things stayed relatively the same. I remember just before qb's got implimented that a shitload of people I knew left because they kept losing expensive, important equipment because of dickheads with nothing better to do than pk everyone all day.
My clan is at war with a tsunami clan. My clan is tg. The tsunami clan attacks me in anarchy zones. What can i do? Either die, run like a pussy, or lose SL. See? WRONG YOU ARE. 100% WRONG. I am at war with a clan and I cannot fight them without doing missions.
This I have to agree with. Its horribly unfair to lose soul light just because a neutral or allied runner with too much time on his hands decides to attack you out of nowhere, and its either die or go yellow or red. Best solution to that would be to impliment some way to not lose SL when you kill a member of a clan you're at war with.
Rento Webex
25-11-03, 02:23
so what about a single ganger with the hack skill ? pwned bizzy biznatch !
I can't be arsed reading all that. The first 2 pages were just drivel and nonsense combined.
The Belt drop system shjould work as follows:
- Ganker gets rights to dropped belts for a short period of time (credit Bob Monkhouse but I was thinking about the same thing).
- Belts should drop everywhere. Its about time we followed Jupiter's example.
Why Jupiter?
The problem atm with OP fights is that people are complaining that when they win an OP fight and hack the OP they lose it as soon as they go offline or that night. At least the winning side would be able to reap the rewards of the dropped belts as some consolation.
Fuck warzones they're shit.
Consequence is removed.
In fact I'm gonna do a poll :)
PS: Do me a fucking favour and stop using that fucking buzzword "balance" its bullshit. People are now using it to justify their own ideas without reason. When it's balanced we'll all draw our PvP fights everytime.
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