View Full Version : PK Friendly games?
Anyone play some good PK-friendly games lately?
NC is too carebear for me now, the fact you need to devote all your int to hacking JUST TO LOOT SOMEONE is fucking stupid. Especially when you loot stuff like stamina boosters, crahn heals, et cetera.
Anyway, I'm kinda looking for something to take a break from NC or just leave completely, dunno yet.
But yeah... How's FFXI?
Psycho_Soldier
18-11-03, 07:41
Originally posted by t0rqu3
Anyone play some good PK-friendly games lately?
NC is too carebear for me now, the fact you need to devote all your int to hacking JUST TO LOOT SOMEONE is fucking stupid. Especially when you loot stuff like stamina boosters, crahn heals, et cetera.
Anyway, I'm kinda looking for something to take a break from NC or just leave completely, dunno yet.
But yeah... How's FFXI?
.. FFXI doesn't even have PvP. Soon though, but I doubt its the kind of PvP where you actually can kill the person. Why PK for items anyway? Items are easy as shit to get.
I know FFXI doesn't have PVP yet, I was asking how it was at the moment.
Getting items from pking is just a nice bonus really...
Oh items are fucking gay to get in this game btw. It's just as easy to get the best shit in EQ, sure getting a rare tech or two is easy, but actually getting six parts or whatever to your weapon that you need can take like 2-3 weeks depending on how much you play.
If I wanted to play a trading card game I'd go play one ;p
shadowbane is the only full out pvp game there is right now
and it has a ton of players in comparison to neocron, because it was made as a pvp game and it stuck with it. neocron tries to be in between and sucks because of it. kk has to decide what its gonna be...evercron or neocron
KRIMINAL99
18-11-03, 17:49
Originally posted by g0rt
shadowbane is the only full out pvp game there is right now
and it has a ton of players in comparison to neocron, because it was made as a pvp game and it stuck with it. neocron tries to be in between and sucks because of it. kk has to decide what its gonna be...evercron or neocron
Yup... Seems to me the game was designed to be completely pvp based and then the volunteer gm staff hung around all the new players only (not the experienced ones who adapted to the game the way it was) and convinced the new players it was terrible they were being attacked after removing the LE then misdirected KK into thinking it would ruin their sales if they didn't nerf pvp. Now the game is severely gimped...
Jesterthegreat
18-11-03, 17:54
Originally posted by g0rt
shadowbane is the only full out pvp game there is right now
and it has a ton of players in comparison to neocron, because it was made as a pvp game and it stuck with it. neocron tries to be in between and sucks because of it. kk has to decide what its gonna be...evercron or neocron
you just made my sig >.<
fuckin well put
Shadowbane is the only place worth pking now. You get everything thing but the armour off the guys back. So thats every item they have farm and all there gold you can get some good shit full pk you can lvl from 1-21 in the safe area after that there is 3 main safe citys but everywhere else is full pk. you can be 60 and kill a lvl 25 loot him dry and laugh. Plus loot is good at low lvls you can get some of ther best and most expensive stuff off a lvl 25 char when he is lvling. You are rewarded well for pking.
If you want to go now is the time they did what neo didn't they took all there server with piss poor populations that were being domonated and merged most into 1 server you brought your char but got nothing else. Then they made a brand new server were everyone could have a fresh start.
Were people pissed hell yea. But they were given the option this way or the highway some took they highway some didn't but were really pissed. But now after the fact they like it they went from a low pop server to a fully populated server.
Anyway right now groups on corrupution are mad there are tons of clans recruiting cause it new and everyone needs a zerg clan.
Well you didnt ask for a PvP MMORPG so.....
Planetside
Originally posted by 5150
Well you didnt ask for a PvP MMORPG so.....
Planetside
Planet side isn't a pk game
Originally posted by KimmyG
Planet side isn't a pk game
You must have missed the bit where the whole point of the game is to blow the enemy away then.....
Originally posted by 5150
You must have missed the bit where the whole point of the game is to blow the enemy away then.....
Oh yea I forgot most neocron players also think CS is a pk game to. UO was a pk game, Neocron was a PK game, Shadowbane is a PK game.
Planet isn't a pk game nither is CS. Just cause someones dies doesn't make it pk.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Just cause someones dies doesn't make it pk.
Care to elighten us then or what does?......
Originally posted by 5150
Care to elighten us then or what does?......
When dieing means something, when you get loot out of it. Shadowbane you are booted back to you city. You lost all your money and items from possible hours of fighting. You lost some and the pk gained something.
Not I got fraged I respawn.
When is someone gonna come in now and say the standered I dont have a pk problem I once pked somone in CS and looted a colt. :lol:
Originally posted by KimmyG
When dieing means something, when you get loot out of it. Shadowbane you are booted back to you city. You lost all your money and items from possible hours of fighting. You lost some and the pk gained something.
Not I got fraged I respawn.
Ah I get it so PK = Griefer friendly, glad we cleared that up.
What I always find amusing is how people always want more risk vs reward as long as its them getting the reward and the other guy taking the risk.....
Originally posted by 5150
What I always find amusing is how people always want more risk vs reward as long as its them getting the reward and the other guy taking the risk.....
No risk when you fuck with the wrong person and get a bunch of scouts tracking you down and you dont have many places to hide there is some risk in that.
Kreb Slyvian
18-11-03, 19:01
Originally posted by g0rt
shadowbane is the only full out pvp game there is right now
and it has a ton of players in comparison to neocron, because it was made as a pvp game and it stuck with it. neocron tries to be in between and sucks because of it. kk has to decide what its gonna be...evercron or neocron
Interesting perspective but it seems to be inconsistent with the position they take in their FAQ:
Game FAQ
Is this game only for PvP players?
Absolutely not - only at the higher levels. Players can learn the game without PvP by starting in a safe-hold city. Safe-hold cities allow players to level up solo or in groups through level 20 without PvP. We have added a lot of depth in the area of PvP, well beyond any other title out there. Kingdoms will be made up of all types of players: not just warriors and mercenaries, but merchants and ambassadors and noblemen, too. The goal of the game isn't just "kill people," it to build a massive virtual empire and participate in the strategic "game of thrones." There are many ways to make an impact on the World of Aerynth. Brute force is only one of them.
How does combat work? Is it FPS?
Kreb
If all you're after is the fact that you take stuff from your defeated opponent then Eve might fit your bill......but if they are cloned and insured (expensive) they dont stand to lose much and depending on what they are carrying you dont stand to gain much (which is why it pays to scan your targets)
Bottom line there just isnt alot of fun in having your hard work taken away from you by someone else. Which is why you'll often find that 'levelling' games (where you can beat up on someone lower level than you) end up having 'carebear' PvP (which is how NC got where it is) and that 'full on' PvP games (such as Planetside) dont have much in the way of character development (i.e. everyone is equal) or loot because no one wants to waste time getting their shit back after getting killed.
Originally posted by Kreb Slyvian
Absolutely not - only at the higher levels. Players can learn the game without PvP by starting in a safe-hold city. Safe-hold cities allow players to level up solo or in groups through level 20 without PvP. We have added a lot of depth in the area of PvP, well beyond any other title out there. Kingdoms will be made up of all types of players: not just warriors and mercenaries, but merchants and ambassadors and noblemen, too. The goal of the game isn't just "kill people," it to build a massive virtual empire and participate in the strategic "game of thrones." There are many ways to make an impact on the World of Aerynth. Brute force is only one of them.
Very ture u can make money and build yourself a merchant city you run the vendors people sell there items to your shops you make the profeit people buy your NPC craftsmans items you make the profeit you can lvl up your own trainers and when people come to train you make money lets just say this is the RPGer adminstratives dream game and a pvpers dream game and a pkers dream game. Just be sure to be allied with a powerful guild. Everything thing has a shot at being crafted and you can only train so high off neutral citys trainers.
@5150
Neocron is a nice UO type pvp system game was ment for large wars and pking assults on Neocron and aqssulats on out of city HQ's. But it is being run on a near EQ rule set. No loot and covered in safe zones and and ogthjer zone where assulats arn't viable.
Originally posted by KimmyG
No risk when you fuck with the wrong person and get a bunch of scouts tracking you down and you dont have many places to hide there is some risk in that.
ONOZ, BIG RISKEH!!11
O_o
Fighting some dude, risking death and losing your super sexed Vanquishing kryss...
Fighting some dude, risking death and losing your super sexed (insert rare name here)...
That is risk. Loss is the missing element in Neocron at the current. Safeslots are stupid - Quickbelts are doubly so. The only difference between Neocron and Planetside - is the Neocron player needs to get poked before he or she rushes back into combat while the planetside player doesn't.
Originally posted by Marx
ONOZ, BIG RISKEH!!11
Biggest risk about.
UO's day is over.
Repoked just wait 5 mins for a rez. Speaking of that release timmer time you have an aloted time to get rez after that insta send to main ap.
Kreb Slyvian
18-11-03, 19:51
Originally posted by Marx
ONOZ, BIG RISKEH!!11
The only difference between Neocron and Planetside - is the Neocron player needs to get poked before he or she rushes back into combat while the planetside player doesn't.
That's not the only difference between the two games. In planetside you can't become a tradeskiller, research and construct items, hunt MOBs instead of people if you like. You just go out and kill each other over and over and over. That's why a lot of people have gotten bored with Planetside already. It's the same old thing over and over.
Why should a game have to be all one way or the other? Either rampant, wanton PKing just for the sake of it, or pure RP? Seems to me like it would get boring pretty quickly just running around ganking lower level players to steal their stuff. What kind of challenge is that? In NC you can kill lower level players all you want if that's how you get your fun and you complain because you can't also take all their stuff. Is this what happened to all the schoolyard bullies when they grew up? Or maybe the PK bunch is still a bunch of schoolyard bullies who never grew up.
Neocron provides a balance between PvP and role play and provides something for everyone. Right, it's not all out PK but the PK element is there for those who want it and can be avoided by those who don't.
Kreb
UO's day is over
UO died the day Trammel was born.
And it's starting to look like Neocron is filling up rapidly with trammie n00bs.
:(
Do you want to PK? or just loot? If you want to loot then how about Team PK'ing? Have one PK and the other loot.
Or you could just hunt down red players (you know, those PK'ers with balls) and hack thier belts which requires very little if any hacking skill.
Fighting some dude, risking death and losing your super sexed Vanquishing kryss...
Fighting some dude, risking death and losing your super sexed (insert rare name here)...
Erm there is a huge difference in the loot drop. I had numerous Vanq weapons, failing that a nice 100 skill player made weapon did just as good (especially with poison on it). Some of the items you can loose in NC can take months to get unless your a serious powergamer.
Originally posted by Kreb Slyvian
Why should a game have to be all one way or the other? Either rampant, wanton PKing just for the sake of it, or pure RP? Seems to me like it would get boring pretty quickly just running around ganking lower level players to steal their stuff. What kind of challenge is that? In NC you can kill lower level players all you want if that's how you get your fun and you complain because you can't also take all their stuff. Is this what happened to all the schoolyard bullies when they grew up? Or maybe the PK bunch is still a bunch of schoolyard bullies who never grew up.
Neocron provides a balance between PvP and role play and provides something for everyone. Right, it's not all out PK but the PK element is there for those who want it and can be avoided by those who don't.
SB has that to full all out city seige. Get yourself some seige catapults some seige hammers and go bust a hole in the citys wall and run in and fight some equal lvls. Im just mentioning the part that im sure t0rqu3 is looking for.
and drop that pk is a schoolyard bulley 12 year old bullshit that is nothing more than enarged ingnoreance. Nothing more more pathetic than calling a pk some little kid or what ever else you would like to call them. PKs are not little kids the guild I run with in shadowbane are all 18-30+ they got jobs some have wifes and kids. They are normal people. Yet cause they pk they are immature little kids with 12 year old mentalitys cause thety like to go out and have fun.
There is nothing worng with pks dont talk about them like there handicaped. I pk someone and want to steal there shit so I have a problem and have a mind of a little kid. Hell no.
You wanna know who has a problem RPing fucks my life sucks so I will live it in a game and be cool and if the game is done I will run out with my buds put on cardboard armour and throw tenis ball lightning bolts at each other. That is the little kid mind fucked shit.
@Archeus
Red players I have rarely ever seen a full time red. Way cause no one here is 100% brain dead run a round risk loseing everything and ahve nothing to gain.
No one has yet to define proper roleplay in Neocron. Hell in DAoC there's no fucking roleplay - and I play on one of the 'roleplay' servers. Their definition of roleplay is not talking about current events and such in public forums...
Sure, I wouldn't mind Neocron being a more violent place, I wouldn't mind losing shit when I die. Why? Because those that get the shit, sell the shit - Those that lost their shit; work at getting more shit. What does that make for? More shit in the market! Yes! As opposed to todays pro-capital hoarding.
Right now, the worlds of each server are lacking one true thing: villians.
And Just remember - with villians; come heroes.
Early retail - Seeing certain runners or clans in the sewers made you happy... They were there to take out anyone who might cause you problems. While they were there sometimes they'd help you out; they'd tell you stuff, help you get ahead.
Meanwhile, you also had to watch your back for those that were hostile, or you knew as rampant PKers'
This kept things interesting and lively...
Neocron is not like that anymore.
Originally posted by Kreb Slyvian
Interesting perspective but it seems to be inconsistent with the position they take in their FAQ:
Game FAQ
Is this game only for PvP players?
Absolutely not - only at the higher levels. Players can learn the game without PvP by starting in a safe-hold city. Safe-hold cities allow players to level up solo or in groups through level 20 without PvP. We have added a lot of depth in the area of PvP, well beyond any other title out there. Kingdoms will be made up of all types of players: not just warriors and mercenaries, but merchants and ambassadors and noblemen, too. The goal of the game isn't just "kill people," it to build a massive virtual empire and participate in the strategic "game of thrones." There are many ways to make an impact on the World of Aerynth. Brute force is only one of them.
How does combat work? Is it FPS?
Kreb
Meh....you can fool yourself and deny the fact that Neocron is a pvp game all day for all I care.
The facts are, theres no content. What do people do when thier characters are capped and they are bored? Quit. If there was a ton of content, people wouldn't be bored after capping. The idea is cap then pvp.
Unfortunately, pvp has been so nerfed that you spend a half hour finding a red guy in a zone that you can attack him in, or you say fuck it and just kill anyone anywhere then spend 3 hours doing missions to fix your sl. Oh yeah, or if you aren't a pvper you can go fight a 1,000,000th fire mob. Whoopee :rolleyes:
Either way its boring.
When I read neo history look at the system what do I see.
History of burtaly war gurriel warfare. I look at the city and see secrect passages tunnels in a sewer that if connected could be madness.
If i was running this game I would have banned all out of city, killed the safe zone in neocron made copbots like other guards pain in the ass but not the insta killers they are now.
I would have connected the passages in and the sewers up so u could run under the city. Pepper would have no copbots but would be the dangerous ghetto is should be ruled by BD and TS. It would have burtal street fights not this pepper line zone to safety crap.
With the passages and sewers the rebels could infiltrate and attack but it would be hard cause copbots would be good but not the once there on you its zone or die.
Now in my mind that shit is fun. Not sure about anyone else.
I really think these are along the lines KK wanted to go.
Spy<VS>Spy
18-11-03, 20:20
well its like this boys and girls. flat out neocron is a pretty deversed game. however being a jack of all trades and a master at none is a little bit of a draw back. neocron is obvoisly designed to be a cyberpunk based RPG where you can gank whoever really. but we have that slot one thing now, and hacking, and LE's with no draw backs...
anyways, yes...PvP lacks. because there are allot of other things to do. though not really enough compared to other RPG's out there.
FFXI is a good example, while its slated to have some sort of PvP right now, there is allot for a player to do...quests, missions, dungeons, loot, unlocking addition classes, unlocking sub classes. chocobo's, airships, rare items, gardening, partying...
its a REALLY good team based game, every class has a purpose The black mage cuts down battle times considerably and drasticly increases skill chain effects with elemental spells.
The warrior keeps the heat of the mages with their provoke ability
the red mage can fill in gaps, backing up the healer, warrior and black mage and even adding in a few unique spells of his own to supplement a team.
White mages do more then heal and enhance the party, they are skilled killers of the undead, eat cure 3 and banish Ghoul!
Thiefs not only give the party a bonus in loot and gil gained after each victory but hold the ability to do sneak attacks and trick attacks which suppliment allot of damages to monsters with difficult defences. A good thief can sneak by enemy's and steal more loot and gil off difficult opponents without trubbling the party in waisting time and down time recovering.
there are many many more...but you get my drift. however, while the party system is very good and the game world is beautiful and concise...it suffers from some hard cases that american players are simply NOT used to in online gaming.
!.) this game is hard, the first five levels are easy, after that it slows down. the game AI is harsh and even monsters in the newbie area pack tricks and surprises that can be EXTREAMLY harsh to new players. the cost of death is a high price...the loss of exp points. you can even go down a level as well as raise. making some nights make you feel...pretty frustated. The AI is relentless, it is intelligent. some mobs will track you by scent, some by sight. some will link together to help each other if attacked. Others will be brought apon you if your hit points are low, or you use magic...and ALWAYS every dungeon has a wide dispernce range of monsters, while the easy ones are good exp, there are powerful mobs guarding them.
2.) the control setup, its retarded. i've seen worse, but its really a disapointment. Good computer games...legendary games give you total control of layout and function.
3.) installation, its a trip and a half. nough said. though you only do it once, its forever in your mind, asking...why? why is this so.
Things are REALLY harsh on the newb player, i shit you not i havnt seen anything like this...ever. this RPG is not for the trigger happy feight of heart. the good news, the end game seems to be worthwhile, your suffering is GREATLY rewarded. powerful skills, subclasses, methods of transpotation, items...you become king of the world baby.
so uh...yeah, i dont think allot of neocron die hard vets, will like FFXI. but if you like RPG's, this is the best i have seen. when PvP comes into play early next yer, maybe that will change. who knows.
yanbybkipbbpbbp
18-11-03, 20:45
The ignorance is astounding among the NC community.
What does constitute being a pker, or even better, an all out outlaw pker who stops for nothing and destroys all in his path?
Strategy, Logic, Sense of adventure, an adrenaline rush from taking out groups of high lvl people, a hell of a lot of fun hiding, avoiding cities and running through the desert scared shitless (if you’re a droner, since you need to hide, like a sniper, or your dead, that’s what I did) and much more, a lot of mental skills are required to pursue the line of a full out pker (not pvper, pvps are simply those who get together and run around shooting stuff, those who get with their “buds” and rush outposts, where a pker would have a smaller group, or go alone and like in DeusEx go against the odds, or not, and try and kill as many people as possible), or even killing noobs’, what’s wrong with that? They wondered into the wrong place and for that they pay, with their lives, it’s a good lesson for them if I may say so, next time they should get some brains and level in a safe place, for then it would be a constant adrenaline rush for them, leveling, trying not to get caught and building their strength just so that later on they can finally find that pker and avenge themselves, loot his gun, his armor, his spells, his costume made tools……
What constitutes being a non pker character, who does not like the rush and does not have the skills required to go against those with a brain, also know as completely red pkers and outlaws?
Well you have to have shit for brains because all you do is play around with your pretend buds who you call your friends yet you have never even met them, killing thousand and thousands of mobs who’s patterns are already very well known, talking shit to pkers who killed you, calling them brainless yet being the one who died and did not have the mental capacity to actually either find that person and assassinate him, or simply have at least the brains of not getting killed or wandering into zones where death is possible. ……..
Its pathetic what kind of people play these games, especially the care bears, I mean you should be really sympathetic towards them, they have no lives, they spend hours upon hours playing the game trying to escape the reality of their shity existence. They are very sad, but then again it is for those people that the rares were created, so they can feel special, so that at least this imaginary existence would bring some community to them that will accept them, for the rest of the community is just as rejected, (in neocron case at least 98% now, was much less during beta days).
Anyways, the full blown PvP world of SB, and its population is proof enough that care bears ruin the game if you listen to them, for that what happened to neocron, which has a lesser population than SB, which was out for much less time than Evercron with its cyber norath atmosphere.
Oh yes, and every person who states that this game has a harsh and difficult mobs, or that the learning curve is too steep, dude, go back to high school, study something because you definitely need to further extend your mental capacity, this must be the simplest mmorpg game out there, then again most people who say that are, as expected, care bears.
Well I don’t have time to correct this essay; I have to leave for my Physics Lab/Conference. Mmmm Thermodynamics.
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
The ignorance is astounding among the NC community.
What does constitute being a pker, or even better, an all out outlaw pker who stops for nothing and destroys all in his path?
Strategy, Logic, Sense of adventure, an adrenaline rush from taking out groups of high lvl people, a hell of a lot of fun hiding, avoiding cities and running through the desert scared shitless (if you’re a droner, since you need to hide, like a sniper, or your dead, that’s what I did) and much more, a lot of mental skills are required to pursue the line of a full out pker (not pvper, pvps are simply those who get together and run around shooting stuff, those who get with their “buds” and rush outposts, where a pker would have a smaller group, or go alone and like in DeusEx go against the odds, or not, and try and kill as many people as possible), or even killing noobs’, what’s wrong with that? They wondered into the wrong place and for that they pay, with their lives, it’s a good lesson for them if I may say so, next time they should get some brains and level in a safe place, for then it would be a constant adrenaline rush for them, leveling, trying not to get caught and building their strength just so that later on they can finally find that pker and avenge themselves, loot his gun, his armor, his spells, his costume made tools……
What constitutes being a non pker character, who does not like the rush and does not have the skills required to go against those with a brain, also know as completely red pkers and outlaws?
Well you have to have shit for brains because all you do is play around with your pretend buds who you call your friends yet you have never even met them, killing thousand and thousands of mobs who’s patterns are already very well known, talking shit to pkers who killed you, calling them brainless yet being the one who died and did not have the mental capacity to actually either find that person and assassinate him, or simply have at least the brains of not getting killed or wandering into zones where death is possible. ……..
Its pathetic what kind of people play these games, especially the care bears, I mean you should be really sympathetic towards them, they have no lives, they spend hours upon hours playing the game trying to escape the reality of their shity existence. They are very sad, but then again it is for those people that the rares were created, so they can feel special, so that at least this imaginary existence would bring some community to them that will accept them, for the rest of the community is just as rejected, (in neocron case at least 98% now, was much less during beta days).
Anyways, the full blown PvP world of SB, and its population is proof enough that care bears ruin the game if you listen to them, for that what happened to neocron, which has a lesser population than SB, which was out for much less time than Evercron with its cyber norath atmosphere.
Oh yes, and every person who states that this game has a harsh and difficult mobs, or that the learning curve is too steep, dude, go back to high school, study something because you definitely need to further extend your mental capacity, this must be the simplest mmorpg game out there, then again most people who say that are, as expected, care bears.
Well I don’t have time to correct this essay; I have to leave for my Physics Lab/Conference. Mmmm Thermodynamics.
100% Dead On.
You wanna fight mobs without worrying about someone killing you? Go play single player and stop wasting the worlds bandwidth. The chance of dying at any time is what makes a game thrilling and fun, for both the pkers and non-pkers.
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
The ignorance is astounding among the NC community.
What does constitute being a pker, or even better, an all out outlaw pker who stops for nothing and destroys all in his path?
Strategy, Logic, Sense of adventure, an adrenaline rush from taking out groups of high lvl people, a hell of a lot of fun hiding, avoiding cities and running through the desert scared shitless (if you’re a droner, since you need to hide, like a sniper, or your dead, that’s what I did) and much more, a lot of mental skills are required to pursue the line of a full out pker (not pvper, pvps are simply those who get together and run around shooting stuff, those who get with their “buds” and rush outposts, where a pker would have a smaller group, or go alone and like in DeusEx go against the odds, or not, and try and kill as many people as possible), or even killing noobs’, what’s wrong with that? They wondered into the wrong place and for that they pay, with their lives, it’s a good lesson for them if I may say so, next time they should get some brains and level in a safe place, for then it would be a constant adrenaline rush for them, leveling, trying not to get caught and building their strength just so that later on they can finally find that pker and avenge themselves, loot his gun, his armor, his spells, his costume made tools……
What constitutes being a non pker character, who does not like the rush and does not have the skills required to go against those with a brain, also know as completely red pkers and outlaws?
Well you have to have shit for brains because all you do is play around with your pretend buds who you call your friends yet you have never even met them, killing thousand and thousands of mobs who’s patterns are already very well known, talking shit to pkers who killed you, calling them brainless yet being the one who died and did not have the mental capacity to actually either find that person and assassinate him, or simply have at least the brains of not getting killed or wandering into zones where death is possible. ……..
Its pathetic what kind of people play these games, especially the care bears, I mean you should be really sympathetic towards them, they have no lives, they spend hours upon hours playing the game trying to escape the reality of their shity existence. They are very sad, but then again it is for those people that the rares were created, so they can feel special, so that at least this imaginary existence would bring some community to them that will accept them, for the rest of the community is just as rejected, (in neocron case at least 98% now, was much less during beta days).
Anyways, the full blown PvP world of SB, and its population is proof enough that care bears ruin the game if you listen to them, for that what happened to neocron, which has a lesser population than SB, which was out for much less time than Evercron with its cyber norath atmosphere.
Oh yes, and every person who states that this game has a harsh and difficult mobs, or that the learning curve is too steep, dude, go back to high school, study something because you definitely need to further extend your mental capacity, this must be the simplest mmorpg game out there, then again most people who say that are, as expected, care bears.
Well I don’t have time to correct this essay; I have to leave for my Physics Lab/Conference. Mmmm Thermodynamics.
Quoted to make sure people read it.
:)
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
The ignorance is astounding among the NC community.
What does constitute being a pker, or even better, an all out outlaw pker who stops for nothing and destroys all in his path?
Strategy, Logic, Sense of adventure, an adrenaline rush from taking out groups of high lvl people,
and the total lack of relating reality to actual actions.
Seriously, 99.99% of PK'ers could give a toss about taking out groups of high level people. They GR in, whack mid-low level players prefeberly when the person is at a major disadvantage then run at the first sign of trouble into a safe zone.
avoiding cities and running through the desert scared shitless (if you’re a droner, since you need to hide, like a sniper, or your dead, that’s what I did) and much more, a lot of mental skills are required to pursue the line of a full out pker
And that is how a PK'er should be, but it isn't. If there wasn't so many idiots claiming they were PKs as you say they should be then there wouldn't the strict rules on PK'ing that there is now.
or even killing noobs’, what’s wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with it. Just don't brag about it as it will make you look like an idiot.
leveling, trying not to get caught and building their strength just so that later on they can finally find that pker and avenge themselves, loot his gun, his armor, his spells, his costume made tools……
Wow am I even playing the same game? If the player doesn't like combat WTF would they want to do that for? What would happen to you if every 10 minutes I killed and looted you and you had absolutly no way to fight back. I'm sure you will live the fantasy that you portray but for the majority of players they will just say "F' this" and move to another game.
The changes aren't to stop PK'ing, they are to stop wussies who think they are tough by pk'ing people who can't fight back.
Well you have to have shit for brains [rest of drivel ignored at this point]
Well you have made your point. You go on how PK'ers should be in the game, but I doubt very much you do that.
[except maybe this]
they spend hours upon hours playing the game trying to escape the reality of their shity existence. They are very sad,
Prehaps you should take a look at your life too.
Originally posted by Archeus
Prehaps you should take a look at your life too.
You seem more of an RPer type WTF give you the right to knock PKers?
Christ it's RPers vs PKers again...
See the RPers get pissed, because they act all carebearish and when they get fucked over by a PKer theres nothing they can really do to get back at them, other than to slag them off in their typical RP way...
Just because you roleplay, it doesn't make you anymore special and it won't protect you from the main core element of this game, which is PvP.
Unless you have an LE of course.
Kreb Slyvian
18-11-03, 22:28
Originally posted by g0rt
100% Dead On.
You wanna fight mobs without worrying about someone killing you? Go play single player and stop wasting the worlds bandwidth. The chance of dying at any time is what makes a game thrilling and fun, for both the pkers and non-pkers.
In NC you do stand the chance of someone killing you while fighting mobs. They just can't loot your body and take all the loot you've collected hunting as well as all your armor and all your weapons. If a noob is PKed and everything they own taken away every time they stick their head out of their apt it will be impossible for anyone to level and newcomers to the game will just give up and quit.
No doubt NC could use lots more content. This thread didn't start from someone complaining about lack of content or even about the fact that they can't kill other players. It started with whining because you can't kill low level players and take all their stuff. Oh and also whining about SL. You only get SL loss if you kill allies. If you kill allies you're an outlaw and stand to be eliminated whenever you enter a lawful zone. What's illogical about that?
So, whine "I want to kill other players and they should suffer the consequences but I don't expect any consequences for myself in return". Poor, poor pker's.
By the way, I'm not an RP or a PK. I do both. If I encounter someone from an enemy faction in my faction's territory I'll kill them if I can and I expect, and usually get, the same in return.
Kreb
Originally posted by KimmyG
You seem more of an RPer type WTF give you the right to knock PKers?
Way to go on thinking there are only two kinds. Actually I am sort of in between (I really don't roleplay that much if at all). I think PK'ing is a somewhat healthy part of the game, as is PvP and roleplay. None of these are mutally exclusive. I would say I am more Explorer type then social/RP/hunter killer type.
You can get a good RP who PKs or PvP or does all.
What I don't agree with is making PK'ing easy. It is not supposed to be easy. The people who moan about carebears are normally the ones who have absolutly no skill whatsoever and go running at the first sign of a challange and would be the first to cry like babies if they were getting whacked continaully while levelling up.
I've met red players in UO who were exceptional PK'ers, so much so they ended up getting banned (Which I didn't agree with). Not because they cheat or exploited, but because it was easier to ban one player then loose 20 who didn't like being whacked at every corner.
The current system in the game allows PKs. It also allows those who want to be bounty hunters (to give the PKs real challange) a reason for chasing them. They don't have to be even good fighters, but they get a reward for acting as police when they finally do whack the PK'er. If the PK'er really was as good as they say they were they would play with the restrictions.
Something that UO didn't have. A player got whacked the reward put on the PK'er was normally farmed off by a friend.
Just because you roleplay, it doesn't make you anymore special and it won't protect you from the main core element of this game, which is PvP.
RP and PK'ing are not opposites. You can be both, and PvP is not PK'ing (something PK'ers fail to realise).
Archeus.
Please - Your definition of RP.
As I mentioned before, people always bitch about the lack of it; yet they don't have a description of it.
Originally posted by Archeus
The current system in the game allows PKs. It also allows those who want to be bounty hunters (to give the PKs real challange) a reason for chasing them. They don't have to be even good fighters, but they get a reward for acting as police when they finally do whack the PK'er. If the PK'er really was as good as they say they were they would play with the restrictions.
In UO if I went down, I would go kill someone else and requip off them in neocron I get nothing.
KRIMINAL99
19-11-03, 01:26
Originally posted by 5150
Care to elighten us then or what does?......
I already explained this too you as well 5150... The difference is you have something at risk if you lose and you stand to gain something if you win. In planetside you don't really get anything meaningful for shooting someone and there really isn't much advancement in that game. Might as well be Q3 arena online where you get bored in 5 minutes.
I agree with you guys totally. Whining about pking is just something newbies in any pk enabled game are going to do. Your not supposed to actually listen to them and ruin the game for everyone by changing it to match what they THINK they want. You just let them adapt and eventually they will have fun in the competitive enviornment and be glad they did.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
2.) the control setup, its retarded. i've seen worse, but its really a disapointment. Good computer games...legendary games give you total control of layout and function.
Have you tried using a controller? I was warned about the controlls so got a ps2 controller adapter for my pc b4 i got the game :) Imo the game is made for a gamepad, the controlls work really well with it and terrible without :(
Also to answer the first post FFXI is the best mmoRPG atm, but to enjoy it you've really got to be wanting to play a rpg, if you're just wanting to level up so you can pvp at some point in the future you prob wont enjoy it. Also the pvp wont be pk style it will be consensual and linked to the conquest system.
As for nc, imo they went with the majority of the player bases oppinion at the time and made a compromise. If the system was changed to one which benefits pks more, there would prob be alot more complaints than there are now about the supposed "carebear" system.
EDIT:
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
Its pathetic what kind of people play these games, especially the care bears, I mean you should be really sympathetic towards them, they have no lives, they spend hours upon hours playing the game trying to escape the reality of their shity existence. They are very sad, but then again it is for those people that the rares were created, so they can feel special, so that at least this imaginary existence would bring some community to them that will accept them, for the rest of the community is just as rejected, (in neocron case at least 98% now, was much less during beta days).
lol and the people who spend their time leveling up characters and getting the same good equipment just to ruin peoples fun are alot less pathetic i suppose :rolleyes: :p
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
I agree with you guys totally. Whining about pking is just something newbies in any pk enabled game are going to do. Your not supposed to actually listen to them and ruin the game for everyone by changing it to match what they THINK they want. You just let them adapt and eventually they will have fun in the competitive enviornment and be glad they did.
Wrong Wrong Wrong.
The newbies dont cry half as much as some of these so called neocron vets.
Dribble Joy
19-11-03, 03:38
Either play the game, or don't.
Stop whinging. FFS. You lot as are a bad as the others.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Stop whinging. FFS. You lot as are a bad as the others.
Nobody wanted to sing that tune in the early days so why would I now?
KRIMINAL99
19-11-03, 08:12
Originally posted by KimmyG
Wrong Wrong Wrong.
The newbies dont cry half as much as some of these so called neocron vets.
Thats not what I see. I see mostly newbies complain about being pked and then once they get used to the game they pk themselves. As far as the vets that complain about it they seem to number in the 10's... and are just really outspoken.
There are people that might call you punk for killing them "while hunting" or something similar... but thats not the same thing as saying pking is bad.
@DJ Don't be rediculous. The game was originally the way everyone wanted it and was a million times more fun than it is now. It got nerfed because a temporary group of players demanded something out of emotional fits that was totally detrimental to the game and it got implemented. So don't knock us for repeatedly given our completely THOUGHT OUT and non emotional outburst ideas about the game.
Originally posted by KimmyG
In UO if I went down, I would go kill someone else and requip off them in neocron I get nothing.
Actually it must of been a while since you played UO as when you died red players recieved a massive skill hit. Unless your being a wuss and just oppertunity kills (going gray and waiting for someone to attack). Which is the pussy way of fighting. No skill at all.
If a PK'er dies they have suffer some form of punishment for thier crimes. It is all part of the challange.
Thats not what I see. I see mostly newbies complain about being pked and then once they get used to the game they pk themselves. As far as the vets that complain about it they seem to number in the 10's... and are just really outspoken.
Then you don't see very much. You probably see people coming back to hit you for you hitting them but real PKers are in the minority. No one I know has the balls to play one. They will kill 1 or 2 people then wait for thier SL to come back. That is not PK'ing, that is being a wuss.
Just some quick points as I dont have alot of time right now....
Why do newbies end up PKing? Well could be that theres bugger al else to do (as most of you agree with) could be thats what they end up thinking the game is about, could be they wants some payback. But dont assume thats what they planned to do all along.
You cant have it both ways though. You want to have a newbie harsh game where no one is safe, dont come crying on the boards when the player count is low and you cant get your Neptune because of it or theres no one to fight (and while I accept that many PvP/PK players will have left because NC is 'boring' I dont for one minute buy the fact that they would be enough to get the numbers high enough - casual players make game numbers and what you guys want is not a system that casual players will put up with). Bottom line - most players will consider item loss through PK looting a major fucking setback (regardless of the item) and they wont put up with it (and indeed thats why NC is where it is now)
Dont get me wrong, I dont for one minute think you shouldnt be able to play the bad guy in a MMORPG, I just think it should be much more difficult, constantly (not just at the outset) for the bad guy (but I bet you guys would cry about that) Eve did this and the pirates whined like hell (which was very satisfying, but at the end of the day those changes made sence and were fair) the problem is with most of you is you want to have your cake and eat it.
I said this in a recent thread. RP starts very basic and very small. A good check to see if you are even vaguely of the RP minset is this....
Do you give or accept pokes/tradeskills from/to enemy runners? If you do there aint no way in hell you RP (and no your RPK bullshit wont cut it now) you broke your factions fundamental rules and nothing you do or say will change that (and no I wont accept 'theres so few tradeskillers/pokers')
Originally posted by Archeus
Actually it must of been a while since you played UO as when you died red players recieved a massive skill hit. Unless your being a wuss and just oppertunity kills (going gray and waiting for someone to attack). Which is the pussy way of fighting. No skill at all.
If a PK'er dies they have suffer some form of punishment for thier crimes. It is all part of the challange.
Then you don't see very much. You probably see people coming back to hit you for you hitting them but real PKers are in the minority. No one I know has the balls to play one. They will kill 1 or 2 people then wait for thier SL to come back. That is not PK'ing, that is being a wuss.
Im talking about way back and other places to play UO. But in recent times I dont recall seeing to many reds untill they made it so you could kill in dungeons and not take stat loss.
No Balls I think not anyone who pks and goes red has no brains and there are no reds cause you would have to be real stupid to be one.
@5150
Low population I recall back when the game was a little less pussy plutos players base was thru the roof hell the server couldn't even take the ammount of players online. I think one thing that needed to be done was the aggy cellar protection thanks to a few who over camped it. But they did not need to make those changes to almost every area in the game.
Bob Monkhouse
19-11-03, 19:21
Originally posted by 5150
I said this in a recent thread. RP starts very basic and very small. A good check to see if you are even vaguely of the RP minset is this....
Do you give or accept pokes/tradeskills from/to enemy runners? If you do there aint no way in hell you RP (and no your RPK bullshit wont cut it now) you broke your factions fundamental rules and nothing you do or say will change that (and no I wont accept 'theres so few tradeskillers/pokers')
That is a VERY narrow concept of RP. If I want a clear cut Black and White definition of enemies I will play a single player game. The whole point of a MMORPG is that you have a vast variety of people, some will become hated enemies, some will be respected foes, and some will be in a Red faction but will be decent and honourable and deserving of friendship.
You cannot "break" RP rules, since each player defines their own. I can justify giving and recieving pokes or tradeskills from "enemy" runners in many ways, so please do not presume to hold some high ground of roleplaying excellence. If YOUR character concept includes a stubborn dedication to the F6 page then fine, stick with it. Mine doesn't, and I am fed up hearing you lecture about what is or is not RP.
Kreb Slyvian
19-11-03, 19:54
I give pokes to enemy factions but I insult them and make them beg. I'm considering demanding a higher price up front as well. After all, anyone will forego their faction allegiance for a little bribe. At the same time I often refuse tips from faction members and do it for free for them. There are lots of ways to RP.
Kreb
Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
That is a VERY narrow concept of RP. If I want a clear cut Black and White definition of enemies I will play a single player game. The whole point of a MMORPG is that you have a vast variety of people, some will become hated enemies, some will be respected foes, and some will be in a Red faction but will be decent and honourable and deserving of friendship.
You cannot "break" RP rules, since each player defines their own. I can justify giving and recieving pokes or tradeskills from "enemy" runners in many ways, so please do not presume to hold some high ground of roleplaying excellence. If YOUR character concept includes a stubborn dedication to the F6 page then fine, stick with it. Mine doesn't, and I am fed up hearing you lecture about what is or is not RP.
Why have factions if you are free to break them (without changing faction)? What kind of structure or driver is there without this fundamental building block (not just in NC)
Why are they deserving of friendship? Nothing you say here explains _why_. The why is the key, if an enemy is a friend because they choose to save your life (for example), that is your why, but then we need to know why they did it.
Yes each player defines his own, and does so with respect to the framework the game provides for you to build on. Remove the framework and you have nothing to work with and then there is an excuse for any behaviour
I'm not stating my benchmark, and I have no moral high ground. I'm just giving a simple and easy reference to illustrating how few people actually play a character to a role, they use it when it suits them (OMG NME KOS!!!) and drop it the minute its a problem (NE1 POKE PLZ), if you cannot work within the boundaries of your faction then you do not RP unless you have the character background to back it up (and in Neocron no ones going to give a crap anyway) and given the history of the game I doubt you will have had such experiences to back it up.....
and if youre fed up of listening to me, I invite you to use the ignore function, thats what its there for! But since you are obviously defending your RP ability I challenge you to tell us your characters faction, background and current motivations so we all my see how you can blatantly assist those that would kill you and your allies and employer (assuming your a city faction) in a heartbeat given the chance
Bob Monkhouse
19-11-03, 21:11
I don't have to give you the story arcs for all my characters, for the simple reason that I don't lecture people about what does or does not constitute good role play.
I was not attacking your RP ability, I was pointing out that you have a personal vision of RP which seems bound very tightly to the narrow Faction based narrative. You constantly harp on about RP, and I was making the point that other people have RP styles and visions which trancend the "Me Tangent, You TG, Me Hate you" simplicity that comes from allowing the F6 screen to dictate your relationships to other characters.
How do you define yourself IRL? Purely by nationality? By what football team you support? By your gender? By your hair colour? Sexuality? Political views? Favourite music? No. Everyone is an individual, both IRL and in a virtual NC. To define a RP character firstly in terms of their faction, and then to ridgidly accept the enemies and allies that come with that faction without discrimination is oversimplistic IMHO. My runners are far more complex, and have motivations that involve having some allies in enemy factions, and some enemies in allied factions.
You make reference to hating "red=dead" players, yet your own view seems to be nothing more than a less violent abstraction of this standpoint.
For the record, I personally think "red=dead" is lazy roleplaying too. If one of my characters kills enemy faction runners on sight (and one of them does, albeit only ONE of the F6 enemy factions) I make sure that I have thought of the motivation for this, and give clues to the reasons for this behaviour.
I have been a keen roleplayer for over 18 years. I have played many good P&P RPGs, from the red box D&D right throught to more niche games such as Paranoia. I WOULD like to see more RP in NC, the difference is I don't condemn other players for playing in the style THEY choose.
I enjoy NC immensely. I have had to adapt to the mileu to maximise my Rping enjoyment. This means I have had to learn to live with being RPKed, being GR killed occassionally and rarely knowing why I have just been killed. The key to enjoying NC is to realise that the actions of the players define the context of the atmosphere. When I am randomly killed, I don't automatically assume that the killer is a pimply maladjusted teenager. I assume that there was a reason behind the death. Whether there was or not becomes immaterial. Sometimes there will have been, ( for example Scikar who has a consistent approach to faction enemies) sometimes there will not (a purely random Pker). My point is that if you accept that sometimes you will die without good reason, you are getting closer to understanding that the RP environment can only be defined by players, and if the majority are violent then the RP environment will be a violent one too.
Originally posted by 5150
Why have factions if you are free to break them (without changing faction)? What kind of structure or driver is there without this fundamental building block (not just in NC)
Well they should have tossed in a red to all or factionless a rouge killer or exile faction.
Originally posted by 5150
Just some quick points as I dont have alot of time right now....
Why do newbies end up PKing? Well could be that theres bugger al else to do (as most of you agree with) could be thats what they end up thinking the game is about, could be they wants some payback. But dont assume thats what they planned to do all along.
You cant have it both ways though. You want to have a newbie harsh game where no one is safe, dont come crying on the boards when the player count is low and you cant get your Neptune because of it or theres no one to fight (and while I accept that many PvP/PK players will have left because NC is 'boring' I dont for one minute buy the fact that they would be enough to get the numbers high enough - casual players make game numbers and what you guys want is not a system that casual players will put up with). Bottom line - most players will consider item loss through PK looting a major fucking setback (regardless of the item) and they wont put up with it (and indeed thats why NC is where it is now)
Dont get me wrong, I dont for one minute think you shouldnt be able to play the bad guy in a MMORPG, I just think it should be much more difficult, constantly (not just at the outset) for the bad guy (but I bet you guys would cry about that) Eve did this and the pirates whined like hell (which was very satisfying, but at the end of the day those changes made sence and were fair) the problem is with most of you is you want to have your cake and eat it.
First, how do you explain the success of ShadowBane? It's apparently much more harsh on item looting after PKs since you can steal everything but a person's armor after PKing them. Second, how can anyone be pissed about losing an item after being PKd in Neocron, when you don't lose anything after being PKd?
You seem to have the wrong idea about playing the bad guy. If you want to go completely against the game mechanics and kill everyone in sight then yes you should be penalised. But what about playing the bad guy as the game encourages you to? Black Dragon are supposed to be evil. TG are, according to city faction members, evil. They're supposed to attack and kill innocent runners. You're supposed to be a bit worried about going into Pepper because a BD could be hiding in the next alley waiting to jump out and kill you. Is anyone bothered? Of course not, they stand to lose nothing at all. Item drops improves the economy because items keep circulating around. Think of all the new players joining who need new Cursed Souls. The only way for them to get one is to go out and get shitloads of rare parts just to have a chance at trading for CS parts. Why shouldn't they be able to gang up with a bunch of friends, kill a high level enemy tank, and steal his CS off him?
Originally posted by Scikar
First, how do you explain the success of ShadowBane? It's apparently much more harsh on item looting after PKs since you can steal everything but a person's armor after PKing them. Second, how can anyone be pissed about losing an item after being PKd in Neocron, when you don't lose anything after being PKd?
You seem to have the wrong idea about playing the bad guy. If you want to go completely against the game mechanics and kill everyone in sight then yes you should be penalised. But what about playing the bad guy as the game encourages you to? Black Dragon are supposed to be evil. TG are, according to city faction members, evil. They're supposed to attack and kill innocent runners. You're supposed to be a bit worried about going into Pepper because a BD could be hiding in the next alley waiting to jump out and kill you. Is anyone bothered? Of course not, they stand to lose nothing at all. Item drops improves the economy because items keep circulating around. Think of all the new players joining who need new Cursed Souls. The only way for them to get one is to go out and get shitloads of rare parts just to have a chance at trading for CS parts. Why shouldn't they be able to gang up with a bunch of friends, kill a high level enemy tank, and steal his CS off him?
Very well put Sci.
:)
Clothing_Option
20-11-03, 02:24
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Yup... Seems to me the game was designed to be completely pvp based and then the volunteer gm staff hung around all the new players only (not the experienced ones who adapted to the game the way it was) and convinced the new players it was terrible they were being attacked after removing the LE then misdirected KK into thinking it would ruin their sales if they didn't nerf pvp. Now the game is severely gimped...
Yeah thers some truth to what u say but it takes a special kinda asshole thats lvl 60 who wants to kill some one thats lvl 21 all day which was common on pluto
Wheres the fucking challenge in that???
Originally posted by Scikar
Think of all the new players joining who need new Cursed Souls. The only way for them to get one is to go out and get shitloads of rare parts just to have a chance at trading for CS parts. Why shouldn't they be able to gang up with a bunch of friends, kill a high level enemy tank, and steal his CS off him?
YES!!!!@2222222222
I am talking about games like this.
ANYONE?
KRIMINAL99
20-11-03, 03:27
Originally posted by Archeus
Actually it must of been a while since you played UO as when you died red players recieved a massive skill hit. Unless your being a wuss and just oppertunity kills (going gray and waiting for someone to attack). Which is the pussy way of fighting. No skill at all.
If a PK'er dies they have suffer some form of punishment for thier crimes. It is all part of the challange.
Then you don't see very much. You probably see people coming back to hit you for you hitting them but real PKers are in the minority. No one I know has the balls to play one. They will kill 1 or 2 people then wait for thier SL to come back. That is not PK'ing, that is being a wuss.
Actually I was talking about the clan I ran on saturn for a few months specifically for fairly new players.. Although noone enjoyed being killed they all learned it was part of the game and later on enjoyed PVP and pking themselves. I might have had an influence on this since I was a clan leader, but that just goes to show that as long as you don't encourage people to whine and bitch about losing in a competive enviornment (which is what the carebear attitude is) they will just adapt and get better.
I am mostly talking about my members pking enemy faction members in non hunting zones.
As far as being a faction killing evil rpk character, it is very simply no longer viable. It has nothing to do with not being a wuss. That whole idea that its "just more challenging" is a lie made up by the Volunteer staff to suit their desires. There is just no fun, no point in being a pker any longer because there are too many arbitrary and unfair disadvantages to them and ABSOLUTELY nothing to motivate someone to do it.
And furthermore, even if someone was to do it anyways, EVEN though its boring as shit and pointless, the gm staff would just come out with another bs comment like "Oh there only doing it because its not enough of a challenge" and then make it even MORE difficult and not fun and pointless.
For instance why do you think Plaza 1 was totally spammed with copbots? I figured Id try again to play a evil pker even after they made it so I couldnt get any drops from it. I rolled a melee tank that could poke hisself in order to have easy to replace weapons where slots didnt matter so much. I snuck around plaza 1 killing loads of people in the aggies and the sewers as a low leveler. Other pkers prolly did this as well. Next thing I know there are copbots everywhere and a bs story in the NEMA.
For that matter, YOU are lying as well. You really have no real belief that a pker letting himself get red makes him any more of a pker than he was before. You know damn well that pkers die more than anyone else because everyone is against them and noone can fight an infinite number of people for an infinite amount of time and not die no matter how good they are. Your goal, is to make people who pk you will lose all their stuff and you can be relieved that the world does not encourage people who emotionally harm you. Because if it does, than that indirectly means that the world does not care about you, and you are somehow an unworthy person.
@ CLothing Optional, nothing is challeging or good about high level players killing low levelers all day, but the truth is it usually doesn't happen like that. Most of the time mid levelers (This is what i call 20 - 35 rankers) are just kinda fodder in the midst of fights between higher levelers... If your pking they might not pose a threat alone, but if you let them live they may team up with the high levelers you fight in which case they can turn the odds against you. Also they may hack your belt if you die, when they wouldnt have been able to if you killed them. And most pkers aren't even discerning enough to care... THey just kill EVERYONE they run into. Learning how to survive as a low leveler is not the easies thing to do, but the game provides some havens for them even beyond the protection of other players.
If I as a pker can level a tank while attacking EVERYONE I always run into, always dieing and losing items, and STILL find ways to make progress, then newbies can survive despite being pked now and again.
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
Yeah thers some truth to what u say but it takes a special kinda asshole thats lvl 60 who wants to kill some one thats lvl 21 all day which was common on pluto
Wheres the fucking challenge in that???
Why not
Lvl up and kill them not that hard.
When I am lvling gettnig pked just me incentive to lvl faster
Shadow Dancer
20-11-03, 03:59
Originally posted by KimmyG
Why not
Lvl up and kill them not that hard.
When I am lvling gettnig pked just me incentive to lvl faster
Unless they quit before you finish leveling up. :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Unless they quit before you finish leveling up. :p
Thats why they should go like in shadowbane make nib mc5 dam good with lots of vendor maybe some decent percentage weapons give some aggy cellar type rooms and maybe some mutant pool like cellars.
Then kick people out at a certain rank.
In other make it so you can lvl well in mc5 till you get your legs.
If thats not enough this kind of game is not for you.
If anything would make someone quit though its not pking its starting a tank out with a rifle and having them think that might be the way to go till they relize its only HC once you higher.
interesting point I never really delt the random attacks on the aggy cellar nibs pre-SL like I do now.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Then kick people out at a certain rank.
In other make it so you can lvl well in mc5 till you get your legs.
If thats not enough this kind of game is not for you.
In MC5 You can level up to level 15 (The point I got kicked out last time) pretty fast even without a team.
All you would be is delaying the point when they quit after getting ganked continually. Although the majority of the idiot PK'ers just made new characters in MC5 and told the newbies to take out thier LE so they could kill them.
At what point does a player get thier legs? It is not based on rank.
Originally posted by KimmyG
If thats not enough this kind of game is not for you.
And if loads of people decide this game isnt for them, then them rules will help alot :rolleyes:
The game is already dieing, mabey slowly, but the last thing it needs right now is a controversial change in the rules which could cost a loss in custom and put newbies off joining. Rather than trying to change rules in the game kk need to look at fixing the bugs! and finishing off all the uncomplete content (epics, terminator run etc).
This game desnt need hit with more major changes which will cause some of the few players still here to leave!
Edit: Oh and hasnt this thread got somewhat off-topic :p o_O :eek:
Ok, back to the roots.
PK-friendly games? How about
UNREAL TOURNAMENT, I recommend it.
PKers can feel right away like being at home. You encounter a brave new world with lots of other peeps, really wanting to get you known,... closely.
Playing this, you'll get pretty fast known, that PK isn't just PK. Because you'll get your pants pulled down that fast and being raped at the same time the pants are down, without knowing you've just being buttloved.
In my NC time, those swashbuckling PK's running around there, would have had any chance in UT.
PK's should go there and get raped. Those, wo PK in MMORPG without sence are only playing lottery. Courious about what they might get, having pulled the poor victims pants over its head. That's all.
PKers, go home!
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Actually I was talking about the clan I ran on saturn for a few months specifically for fairly new players.. Although noone enjoyed being killed they all learned it was part of the game and later on enjoyed PVP and pking themselves.
Birds of a feather. There is world of difference between telling people about the combat in the game and just sweeping through a newbie dungeon whacking people who are trying to level up.
which is what the carebear attitude is
It is true there is a certain level of carebears which cause negative effects to the game (likewise with PK'ing), however you defination is probably no where near that.
I am mostly talking about my members pking enemy faction members in non hunting zones.
Again this is totally different to actual PK'ing, that is more FK'ing which acceptable in the game as a means to stay green.
As far as being a faction killing evil rpk character, it is very simply no longer viable.
Please explain how Faction killing is no longer viable (outside of Hunt Zones). Nothing has changed in that regards.
For instance why do you think Plaza 1 was totally spammed with copbots?
Because they plan to remove the safe zone from Plaza I soon.
I snuck around plaza 1 killing loads of people in the aggies and the sewers as a low leveler. Other pkers prolly did this as well. Next thing I know there are copbots everywhere and a bs story in the NEMA.
The copbots are there for a reason coming. Attacking in Plaza 1 levelling spots is about as lame as PK'ing someone can get. It is no challange to kill anyone and at the first sign of trouble they can run to a safe zone.
For that matter, YOU are lying as well. You really have no real belief that a pker letting himself get red makes him any more of a pker than he was before.
A PK'er is a person who murders regardless of thier faction (for the most part people who cannot fight back). It is basically a crime in the game. Those who hunt those people should be rewarded for doing so, and for being a real criminal you take real risks for your business.
The problem is that people want all the fun without any actual real risk.
You know damn well that pkers die more than anyone else because everyone is against them and noone can fight an infinite number of people for an infinite amount of time and not die no matter how good they are.
True, but if you were anyway an actual good fighter you would of aquired enough goods to keep you kitted up. Or formed alliances with others who share your method of combat. Failing that I am sure you would have an extra character or an alt happly doing the farming for you to kit up and kill.
PK'ing should be hard. You should be the baddest of the baddest to PK and put your money (your stuff) where your mouth is. The rules do that. They seperate the men from the boys.
Your goal, is to make people who pk you will lose all their stuff and you can be relieved that the world does not encourage people who emotionally harm you.
You feel emotionally upset? I have no idea what you are going on about.
I am saying you want reward you take risk. You want to play a hard character you shouldn't whine when you can't handle playing that type of character. There is already an easy system of killing put in place called Faction killing. Stick to that.
nothing is challeging or good about high level players killing low levelers all day, but the truth is it usually doesn't happen like that.
Actually it happens a lot like that. Not as bad before the SL/drop changes but it still goes on. The changes help curb to an acceptable level. A level 20-30 character can actually still be a very low character by the way.
THey just kill EVERYONE they run into. Learning how to survive as a low leveler is not the easies thing to do, but the game provides some havens for them even beyond the protection of other players.
Likewise for those who want to kill other people.
If I as a pker can level a tank while attacking EVERYONE I always run into, always dieing and losing items, and STILL find ways to make progress, then newbies can survive despite being pked now and again.
Yea I am sure you have a maxed out constructor on your player list doing it for you. That person you are whacking may or may not.
Originally posted by Deighton
Ok, back to the roots.
PK-friendly games? How about
UNREAL TOURNAMENT, I recommend it.
PKers can feel right away like being at home. You encounter a brave new world with lots of other peeps, really wanting to get you known,... closely.
Playing this, you'll get pretty fast known, that PK isn't just PK. Because you'll get your pants pulled down that fast and being raped at the same time the pants are down, without knowing you've just being buttloved.
In my NC time, those swashbuckling PK's running around there, would have had any chance in UT.
PK's should go there and get raped. Those, wo PK in MMORPG without sence are only playing lottery. Courious about what they might get, having pulled the poor victims pants over its head. That's all.
PKers, go home!
I used to play UT2k3 religously. FPS games get boring when you can enter with like 5 minutes left of a game and come out on top, though.
That isn't PKing, by the way... Someone already explained PKing so I won't bother. I like how you think every PKer plays MMOs because they suck at FPS though, nice generalization.
Originally posted by t0rqu3
That isn't PKing, by the way... Someone already explained PKing so I won't bother. I like how you think every PKer plays MMOs because they suck at FPS though, nice generalization.
As i used to play NC, I came over many Pkers. Most of them I remember as rude "just walk along and kill everything buddies".
I did not ask everyone of those, but the most common answer I got was like,
"I was bored, wanted some action"
"just for fun"
"Needed to test my new weapon"
"One of your clan killed me in beta"
an bullshit like this.
however a PK is defined, I do not care. In an MMORPG it is so natural that you got enemies and allied. But shooting or hunting somebody down, for just nothing, in any case, sucks.
Not ONE acted like a RPG dude. Ok here we go. The classical problem!
But this problem is like a neverending story or the question "what was first, the egg or the chicken?"
Sorry, my english is to bad. Otherwise i would have written down better and detailed thoughts.
D
@archeus make it so you can go a little higher than and make it a true newbie zone no pvp. Plus once your past mutant pool that should get you near the point were you should be able to lvl without ever seeing a PK or anyone else for that matter.
@Cyphor You make this game a ture pvp game and others may not want it however other may decide they do want it. Same way if they make no pvp prue content type game. Right now it is not either one but a cross breed and I really dont think that is working. Plus fixing the sync bugs and adding 5 more epics wont changed the common I have done it all im bored quiting posts.
@ all fucknuts who think Quake,CS or UT is a pk game go get your heads checked. PK is from mmorpg games.
Originally posted by KimmyG
@archeus make it so you can go a little higher than and make it a true newbie zone no pvp. Plus once your past mutant pool that should get you near the point were you should be able to lvl without ever seeing a PK or anyone else for that matter.
It just raises the bar. Doesn't remove it. Granted nearly everyone here can avoid being PK'ed easily in game (even with an LE in out) but most new players don't, and people getting whacked day after day won't find it fun.
before the changes on average I would get PK'ed at least 1 every hour (sometimes more). Not that big a deal to me but you go on about having to loose 5 items if you die. That is a hell of a lot less a new player looses from muppets who think they are a turkey shoot. Plus low level items are to new players as important as a CS or HL to a high level character.
@ all fucknuts who think Quake,CS or UT is a pk game go get your heads checked. PK is from mmorpg games.
They are making a point that attacking people without reason is basically equates to Quake or UT. The only difference is that 99% of the idiots who do it in a MMORPG would probably get owned by anyone else on a level footing against them.
Originally posted by Archeus
They are making a point that attacking people without reason is basically equates to Quake or UT. The only difference is that 99% of the idiots who do it in a MMORPG would probably get owned by anyone else on a level footing against them.
Wrong, the only difference is that it's a lot more fun when the kill actually disables the other player somewhat (Either synaptic, loot, skill losses), and you have something to risk/put on the line.
Originally posted by t0rqu3
Wrong, the only difference is that it's a lot more fun when the kill actually disables the other player somewhat (Either synaptic, loot, skill losses), and you have something to risk/put on the line.
Then play Q3/UT/HL with a mod then. There are plently out there. It is nothing to do with the other player loosing, it is you not loosing anything.
If that is not the case, and you say it is about risk then why do PK'ers whine when they risk loosing items to play the way they play?
Originally posted by Archeus
It just raises the bar. Doesn't remove it. Granted nearly everyone here can avoid being PK'ed easily in game (even with an LE in out) but most new players don't, and people getting whacked day after day won't find it fun.
before the changes on average I would get PK'ed at least 1 every hour (sometimes more). Not that big a deal to me but you go on about having to loose 5 items if you die. That is a hell of a lot less a new player looses from muppets who think they are a turkey shoot. Plus low level items are to new players as important as a CS or HL to a high level character.
They are making a point that attacking people without reason is basically equates to Quake or UT. The only difference is that 99% of the idiots who do it in a MMORPG would probably get owned by anyone else on a level footing against them.
1100 people on the big sb server right now that get wacked all the time get whacked and lvl up some more. Its neocron overall pussieness that hindered controler pks something more could be done if all safe zones where removed.
If thats those people points they should get off neocron and go play EQ same fucking sense there. Neocron started as a PvP so they have no bizness here they should be playing the Co-op daoc server or an EQ server.
yanbybkipbbpbbp
21-11-03, 01:44
Archeus pardon me for not quoting you but I wish not to waste space. Look at how you decided to attack me, yet you know me not. I should take my advice regarding having a life you say? Hmm, let us ponder upon this statement.
You post everyday, at least 6 times, I post almost never. At the rate that I’m going now I shall have a PHD in physics by the age of 25, do you have any degree at all? Have you even finished high school?
You play this game all day, I log on once every 3 weeks for less than an hour.
This game is your life, for me it is where I can have fun killing noobs like yourself, for they are easier to kill than droms.
But let us go back to the argument. If PKs do really spoil the game, then how is it so that after the punishment for PKing increased, and the rules of combat engagement became more Everquestish that people started to leave? And population declined.
Also you periodically and relentlessly state that PKers have no brains, then explain this to me, if they do destroy everything in their path, and killing care bears is their favorite game, is it perhaps because care bears are much easier to hunt than war bots? Because these care bears have less skill than a 2 line code that the war bot is running on? So than who is dumber, someone who is more predictable than a war bot, or a PKer who kills such filth? for care bears are more predictable, and hence are easier to kill.
Ok, so what if some PKers kill noobs? Or do not follow my philosophy of killing Deus Ex style? Do these noobs posses no LE? Why did they take it out? Perhaps this is the problem; perhaps it is time for the game developers to divide the fools and the strategists.
I suggest that they remove all servers, and create instead, 2 new ones.
Heaven and Hell.
Heaven for fools, and Hell for the strategists.
Heaven with no PK at all, and Hell with no LE, no safe zones, and no belts, to the victor go the spoils.
I think that this shall solve the problem, but this is what resonates in the back of my mind, you care bears have spoiled every game, will you be satisfied with Heaven? Or will you enter Hell and once again begin bashing others when they kill you? What argument will you bring forth? Will you say that you wanted to RP and they killed you? Will you say you were just hunting and some guy just ran over and started killing you, then went to your apartment hacked the door, and began killing you every time you tried to GR?
I just hope that if this is to be implemented that your kind stays out of our domain, and keeps its diseased “reasoning” far away from our thrill seeking, logical, fun seeking, and strategic minds.
Now having been indulged in your form of posting, I shall put you on ignore, you have nothing of value for me to reap from the posts you put forth.
Kreb Slyvian
21-11-03, 02:18
Wow dude! You got some serious issues.
Kreb
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
Ok, so what if some PKers kill noobs? Or do not follow my philosophy of killing Deus Ex style? Do these noobs posses no LE? Why did they take it out? Perhaps this is the problem; perhaps it is time for the game developers to divide the fools and the strategists.
I suggest that they remove all servers, and create instead, 2 new ones.
Heaven and Hell.
Heaven for fools, and Hell for the strategists.
Heaven with no PK at all, and Hell with no LE, no safe zones, and no belts, to the victor go the spoils.
Why don't people like you work for KK? This is the best idea I've heard in a very long time.
Play SB troqu3 right now im in a 70 man strike force about to cleanse a city.
Kill noobs, kill l33ts its all good and when there is 1500 people on there is a plenty to slay.
Ill agree with whats his name. How does pking mean u have no life? How is it any differn't than summon who lvls and farms all day?
Heaven and Hell.
sounds too much like what happened to UO for my comfort.
:(
Originally posted by KimmyG
Play SB troqu3 right now im in a 70 man strike force about to cleanse a city.
Kill noobs, kill l33ts its all good and when there is 1500 people on there is a plenty to slay.
Ill agree with whats his name. How does pking mean u have no life? How is it any differn't than summon who lvls and farms all day?
I left SB when no one leveled at freeports anymore, and the only way to PK was to run for 20-30 minutes to some spawn close to an enemy city, pk like 5 people, then run some more...
Are freeports alive again, with that server delete/merge?
Originally posted by t0rqu3
I left SB when no one leveled at freeports anymore, and the only way to PK was to run for 20-30 minutes to some spawn close to an enemy city, pk like 5 people, then run some more...
Are freeports alive again, with that server delete/merge?
IM not sure what to tell you.
More people 1500 around now. New map power is alot more spread out. Its not just 1 big domonateing force on corruption. As of now there are several open towns to tele to.
Shadow Dancer
21-11-03, 04:37
1500 people on one server?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
1500 people on one server?
Yes one server
1606 right now. Full PK but no one likes a pk game. Everyone likes it like neocron with its grand ol total of 1000 people online over all there servers
Kimmy what's.... chaos like? Haha I almost forgot what server I played...
Wait, I played dread, then either chaos or some other server that started with a C
All my shit was on Chaos, I'm pretty sure. Which servers were deleted?
(BTW are healer channelers/prelates/the other uber healer class way overpowered still or no?)
Originally posted by t0rqu3
Kimmy what's.... chaos like? Haha I almost forgot what server I played...
Wait, I played dread, then either chaos or some other server that started with a C
All my shit was on Chaos, I'm pretty sure. Which servers were deleted?
(BTW are healer channelers/prelates/the other uber healer class way overpowered still or no?)
everywhere is low population.
PLace to be vengence where you can move your chars pop is good there. But the place to be is corruption new server everyone had a fresh start.
They nerfed block rates. Changed some heal stuff
I like NC the way it is set-up now *gasp*
I just think they need to think up some things that will keep high lvl players happy without making the low lvl newbies mad.
For example. Dont have all loot drop. I have been playing for several months now...and If I dropped all my stuff when I was killed It would take ages to get it all back each time.
Maybe have a system when you get "points" everytime you kill someone of equal lvl or higher. Therefore people can compete to see who has the most points.
This would probably only happen if more people were playing. Only then do I think that the old "outlaw pk'ers vs. bounty hunters" could work. Even when I started playing last year this kind of gameplay existed....it has since faded greatly.
IMO...people need to be more constructive. Instead of complaining about the current situation think of a way to improve it. And try to think of a solution that will please everyone, yet doesnt make the game something it isnt.
KRIMINAL99
21-11-03, 06:05
Originally posted by Archeus
Birds of a feather. There is world of difference between telling people about the combat in the game and just sweeping through a newbie dungeon whacking people who are trying to level up.
It is true there is a certain level of carebears which cause negative effects to the game (likewise with PK'ing), however you defination is probably no where near that.
The copbots are there for a reason coming. Attacking in Plaza 1 levelling spots is about as lame as PK'ing someone can get. It is no challange to kill anyone and at the first sign of trouble they can run to a safe zone.
A PK'er is a person who murders regardless of thier faction (for the most part people who cannot fight back). It is basically a crime in the game. Those who hunt those people should be rewarded for doing so, and for being a real criminal you take real risks for your business.
The problem is that people want all the fun without any actual real risk.
True, but if you were anyway an actual good fighter you would of aquired enough goods to keep you kitted up. Or formed alliances with others who share your method of combat. Failing that I am sure you would have an extra character or an alt happly doing the farming for you to kit up and kill.
PK'ing should be hard. You should be the baddest of the baddest to PK and put your money (your stuff) where your mouth is. The rules do that. They seperate the men from the boys.
You feel emotionally upset? I have no idea what you are going on about.
I am saying you want reward you take risk. You want to play a hard character you shouldn't whine when you can't handle playing that type of character. There is already an easy system of killing put in place called Faction killing. Stick to that.
Well lets see here.. First my clanmates were not birds of any feather... They were newbies of all types. Some even had adversions to pking from other games. I just explained to them how things in the game work, how pking is part of the game, how its just competition and the only thing really bad is when people lie and talk bs... All it takes is someone to help the newbie adapt instead of encouraging them to bitch and all the sudden new players problems with pking suddenly dissapear...
And yes, ALL except maybe 1% of carebears are complete, total, and utter HYPOCRITES. The 1% which are not and you will almost never run into is the player who when pked, talks to the pker and politely asks something like " hey Im new to the game, or Im just trying to level could you not kill me please". Most pkers will not pk these people anyway. The other 99% are total bs.
A. They are playing the game to gain respect for defeating other players. If they REALLY believed that they only lost because they had some kind of disadvantage then they wouldn't get mad. They get mad and start spewing insults and "you only won because" when they are afraid they might have lost partially due to lack of ability.
B. The only thing that anyone could construe to be wrong about pking someone is that you are taking an aggressive act against someone else unprovoked. HOWEVER.. Almost everyone does this to some degree. If youve ever talked bad about someone behind their back, made fun of someone, tried to make someone look stupid etc. then you are no better and most likely the pker is relieving stress that people just like you have caused them. (And by the way pking someone in a video game is not as bad as any of those, its about there with stealing the ball in a basketball game...) Think of it as karma. If you get flaming mad and curse out the pker when he kills you then its a good sign you haven't a leg to stand on.
Attacking in plaza 1 leveling spots is not lame at all when you are that level yourself... Think about it People playing the game are either hunting/leveling or looking to participate in pvp. If its a pk enabled game then the whole idea is people can participate in pvp at ANY time not just when they want to (which pretty much means exactly while leveling/hunting since thats the other mmorpg activity). Here you are making it blatantly obvious that you despise pking of all types(Howevever since there is no logic in your argument it is more like you despise when YOU get pked), YET you claim to have legitimate ideas about what is "good" pking and what is "bad" pking and your idea of good pking is what screws them over the most... Coincidence? I think not...
Like I said before you just want to goad people who have killed your desires of being the best player in the game ever into doing things that will harm them in order to gain some relief.
The TRUE disadvantage of a pker is having everyone against you. If you had a huge group of friends that shared beliefs then you would be just like a faction. If you are a psycho hose beast that just wants to see everyone dead than you have NO friends and it is the world vs you. Under the old rules IT WAS very challenging, and further more that was EXACTLY WHY people like me did it. I was always fighting 2 - 3 people at a time and frequently running into huge groups and losing items often when I died. I already had to frequently remake weapons simply because I spent all my time PVPing and whenever I died I could lose a weapon. No implants because noone would poke me, and plus I died alot too. All of these disadvantages were NATURAL to having everyone against you (and hence are the only ones that are justified). BUT there was always the chance of getting an awesome item from someone I killed - THATS RISK/REWARD on a somewhat reasonable level.
The Copbot sl KOS was there originally, and frankly this is lame because they are just arbitrarilly 10x more power ful than a player and back up some players against other players with an incredibly unfair advantage. IMO it should just be left up to the players to fight each other and how many friends/enemies you make should determine the strength against you.
But other than this the game allowed evil characters, and in fact to this day the OFFICIAL FAQ STILL SAYS: " Soulight is not a penalty system, it is a way of life"
Then one day they add a patch that completely destroyed anyones ability to play this type of character, under the guise that they were just making it more difficult. (When really hated pkers and wanted them to suffer as much as possible... It was the gms who pushed all these changes and ruined the game)
First off, they took away ALL motivation for this type of play. (And most motivation for all PVP at the same time) By locking quickbelts they ensured that no pker would ever be able to gain from his actions unless he was REALLY lucky. That is a hacker pker (which entails giving up some combat ability and cant be a tank.. the best pk class) who just happened to run into a SINGLE person in the middle of nowhere where it would be safe to hack the item.. AND it just so happens that the person dropped something good.
Second, They gave the pker a million ARBITRARY disadvantages in comparison to everyone else. Arbitrary means it was obviously done out of total spite, there was no rhyme or reason, and most importantly it was done with the specific intention of ruining an aspect of the game it had been advertised for and many people had bought the game for - NOT making it more difficult as they said. Basically it was the equivalent of giving a 2 year old child with mass temper tantrums the ability to change the world anyway he wanted.
A pker loses from 5 to all of his items every time he dies, and has no safeslot while other players do, AND his quickbelt is more easily hacked. That means A: You must replace most of your armour every time you die. Thats about 150k per death. B: You are likely to lose your weapons every time you die. That means any weapon you have you will not keep for more than 30 minutes (or you will spend most of your time AVOIDING combat which is more likely and probably the effect they were going for) which means the only ones worth worrying about are just generic 1-3 slot (whatever gets made) non rare weapons.
Now lets say best case you have a constructor and resser and can rebuild all this stuff. Considering ALL the stuff you have to build, its probably going to take you a good 30-45 minutes per 5-10 minutes of pking. If you don't and you just look at it in terms of money, you have to pay around 200k just to be able to pk through one death. PLUS if you are a full time pker, you have NO way to really make money anymore once you die. Considering you no longer have anything to gain from pvp, this would be absolute stupiditity to do when you can just load UT and fps PVP or AT LEAST just pk faction enemies instead of everyone(Both of which are boring as shit after more than 5 min btw because they have no meaning).. without any stupid timeout penalties (which is basically what the pker drop rules are).
There is only ONE reason anyone would pk now, and I actually did it for a while after the changes, (and am considering doing it more) specifically for this reason. And that is to PISS THE HYPOCRITE CAREBEARS and responsible Gms off.
Its not about being bad ass or not, most pkers could probably kill most non pkers simply cause they have more experience... It has nothing to do with putting your money where your mouth is either because a pker has NOTHING to gain if he wins.. and EVERYTHING to lose if he loses. The odds are already against him because there is more antipkers than pkers and besides that pkers pk each other too they don't team up unless they are friends.
Its the equivalent of offering to bet someone that he couldnt beat you and your 4 closest friends in say basketball alone... If you won he had to pay you 100 thousand dollars if he won he got nothing. Even if he was a professional player hed tell you to go fuck yourself cause it wouldn't be worth his time.
At best the better skill of a pker would allow him to have an equal chance of winning against the larger numbers pkers face, and any gambler knows the bet is supposed to be equal to the odds that that side will win to make it fair/worth it...
So enough already with the totally manipulated/illogical risk/reward argument...
Well if the only thing you want out of a game is to PK and then loot the bodies then your standards of what you want out of a game are not very demanding, I suppose. Probably you could go and play Diablo. But there you may also complain that whatever you kill are not 'real' people, so play CS or Quake or SOF, but again there you will complain that you also can't loot the bodies.
I love the way the system is at the moment at NC, even though there are some aspects that could be improved on, but PK is not one of them.
Anyway, there are so many better ways of making money in NC than PKing people and looting their bodies. I think you have not really 'played' NC except arrive on the scene like some noobs and the first question is, where can I PK? There are a lot of immature children playing this game a bit until they get bored and look for something else.
KRIMINAL99
21-11-03, 06:27
Originally posted by NeoChick
Well if the only thing you want out of a game is to PK and then loot the bodies then your standards of what you want out of a game are not very demanding, I suppose. Probably you could go and play Diablo. But there you may also complain that whatever you kill are not 'real' people, so play CS or Quake or SOF, but again there you will complain that you also can't loot the bodies.
I love the way the system is at the moment at NC, even though there are some aspects that could be improved on, but PK is not one of them.
Anyway, there are so many better ways of making money in NC than PKing people and looting their bodies. I think you have not really 'played' NC except arrive on the scene like some noobs and the first question is, where can I PK? There are a lot of immature children playing this game a bit until they get bored and look for something else.
When did anyone ever say the only thing they wanted out of a game was to pk and loot the bodies? Even if someone did say that AND even if they actually believed it they would still be wrong. Else they would be happy looting even a single stamina booster...
The conditions that would satisfy PVPERS (and would also make the game 10x more fun for many players who don't realize it) is that SOMETHING of PERCEIVED value is at risk on BOTH sides of a PK match. That is if you lose, oh my gosh I could lose my uber weapon, but if I win it would be so awesome cause I might get theirs. Suddenly pvp is meaningful and you are pumped with adrenaline ever time a fight comes up...
Its the difference between: The bases are loaded its the last inning, your up to bat, Will you win it for the team? and batting practice with a machine pitcher...
Percieved value means what players in the game consider valuable. Also a 1 in 10 chance of winning something worth maybe 100k is much better than assuredness of winning 2k...
The whole argument that people can gain weapons and money from pking is a side argument, a point that negates complaints people have about "but I don't want to risk losing my weapon" when they are newbies and still think the game has infinite challenges. The point is you may lose your weapon once you have it, but weapons are actually easier to get because many more of them are made and float around the system.
A) as backups that people might be willing to trade or give away at different times AND
B) as PVP aquired loot that the person cant use...
Don't bother dude, people don't want to lose thier stuff.
Trammelcron is here to stay.
:(
KRIMINAL99
21-11-03, 06:32
Originally posted by Marx
Don't bother dude, people don't want to lose thier stuff.
Trammelcron is here to stay.
:(
Actually the last time this issue was brought up the people who wanted qbs unlocked vastly outnumbered the other side. Dont give up so easily, especially when you know you are right. The reason I still talk about this stuff on the forums even so long after it was changed is because people reading it are forced to think weather they agree or disagree with it, and once they start thinking it is only a matter of time before they come to the same conclusions...
qupte
_____________________________________--
but weapons are actually easier to get because many more of them are made and float around the system.
____________________________________
I have been trying for 7 weeks to get the parts at least together for a Holy Lighting and have been unsuccessful, or even purchasing a made one
So if I loose the one I've got,or it wears out which it is close to, I can basically stop playing that char. In fact, I have stopped playing that char because until I have a spare I will not risk loosing the one HL I have due to perhaps a bug or something
On the other hand, if I run around PKing I may pick one up off somebody elses misery and then they will stop playing their char.......can't win
KRIMINAL99
21-11-03, 07:06
Originally posted by NeoChick
qupte
_____________________________________--
but weapons are actually easier to get because many more of them are made and float around the system.
____________________________________
I have been trying for 7 weeks to get the parts at least together for a Holy Lighting and have been unsuccessful, or even purchasing a made one
So if I loose the one I've got,or it wears out which it is close to, I can basically stop playing that char. In fact, I have stopped playing that char because until I have a spare I will not risk loosing the one HL I have due to perhaps a bug or something
On the other hand, if I run around PKing I may pick one up off somebody elses misery and then they will stop playing their char.......can't win
2 things wrong with your logic. One of the I just stated in the part right after where you quoted but ill try and break it down some more...
First its not just that you can get it from pking people. There would be more of them EVERYWHERE. They would sell for probably something like half the price they do now. Why? It takes a LONG time for a HL to be wrecked and repaired so many times that it is totally destroyed. And noone is going to throw it away... Very simply before were there was one HL in the system ( the one you had ) there will now be 2 - the one you had which is now in someones storage till they trade it - and the new one you go hunting for. AND what most people did was just to keep hunting for rares when they already had one to get AT LEAST one backup in case they lost their weapon. Oh... AND people hunting for other rares to back up their supply will find your parts in the meantime...
Net result is before unlocked quickbelts the entire Neocron community holds maybe 200 HL's, one for every capped APU. After the Neocron community holds more like 400... If you know supply and demand that means much cheaper prices and less difficulty to get one... even if you don't PK. The reason for this is everyone does just a little bit more to add to the HL's in the economy. At the same time the game is made more fun because there is an element of uncertainty to your position in the game.
The second problem with your point, is that it is self perpetuating. PKing and taking their weapon is only a terrible thing to do if its really THAT difficult to replace the weapon. If they could just pk someone and take their weapon (or buy one easier like I just explained) than its not a big deal... (And its only wrong to begin with if you consider beating someone in say a sport wrong...)
Originally posted by NeoChick
I have been trying for 7 weeks to get the parts at least together for a Holy Lighting and have been unsuccessful, or even purchasing a made one
an evening of part hunting I can get whatever I please. Items in this game are so easy to get its not even funny.
Shadow Dancer
21-11-03, 08:28
Originally posted by KimmyG
an evening of part hunting I can get whatever I please.
On saturn? O_O
Originally posted by yanbybkipbbpbbp
Look at how you decided to attack me, yet you know me not.
You appear to have some kind of persecution complex.
You post everyday, at least 6 times, I post almost never. At the rate that I’m going now I shall have a PHD in physics by the age of 25, do you have any degree at all? Have you even finished high school?
Long since finished thanks for asking. 6 posts a day = my life here? o_O In what timeframe is that then? Dog years?
You play this game all day, I log on once every 3 weeks for less than an hour.
No. I don't play the game all day. If anything I play the game probably as much as you if a little more.
But let us go back to the argument. If PKs do really spoil the game, then how is it so that after the punishment for PKing increased, and the rules of combat engagement became more Everquestish that people started to leave?
First up. I did not say PKs spoil the game. I prefer a game with PKers in it. What I did say is that the majority (note the word majority does not mean all) of PKers want an easy kill with no skill required.
The second there is any form of danger to them they come onto the board to whine about "Carebears ruining the game".
Secondly, you are equating 1 factor of the game as the cause of everything? o_O I'd get that PHD soon if I was you.
I would say the decline in server population would be due to (in order)...
- Poor advertisment.
- Low distribution of the game.
- Corrupted online installer
- Original MC5 for newbies (the new one is a lot better).
- Crash bugs
After that...
- Learning curve
- A saturated MMORPG market
I wouldn't put PK'ing even remotely to players leaving in the game. The current system works. If you want to PK to your hearts content you can but you take risks for doing it.
Also you periodically and relentlessly state that PKers have no brains, then explain this to me, if they do destroy everything in their path, and killing care bears is their favorite game, is it perhaps because care bears are much easier to hunt than war bots?
No brains? Hardly, I would say the majority of PKers have no balls though.
So your saying that warbots should be easy to kill? or that carebears (whatever that is) should be harder? Which is it?
How about this.
A carebear and a PK in a dungeon with the old rules. Who is taking the bigger risk?
Answer: The carebear. The PKer is showing in this instance they have absolutly no spine when it comes to taking a risk.
So new rules were put in place which tell the PK'er to put thier money where thier mouth is. What do most do? Whine about it.
Do these noobs posses no LE? Why did they take it out?
I have found dealing with new players that the majority are told to take them out by players in the game (mainly PK players). In fact when a PKer can't whack an LE'ed player most try to annoy them in another way if there is no other sport to whack in the area.
But yes, once a player understands what happens when taking out an LE they should accept that risk.
*snip*heaven... yadda yadda... hell*snip*
Pay attention. Your taking about the fabled neptune server. If you read the forum so well (seeing as you know how much I post) you would know I would be one of the first onto Neptune. I played on DarkTide in AC for quite some time. It is what Neptune would be like. Your average PKer we see in game would equate to the high level idiots who just sit at the newbie spawn points in Darktide and PK them as they leave.
You see Neptune is risk for everyone. Sure you can PK and get stuff, but when people start to finally level up in large numbers being a PKer is going to be a living hell.
Most PKers cannot hack hardcore servers. Like I said they prefer easy kills. When they find it is no longer easy they whine or leave, just like the new players they claim are ruining the game.
I just hope that if this is to be implemented that your kind stays out of our domain,
LOL our domain. Listen in a world of just PK'ers the majority of PKers on the servers would be the bitches of a handful of exceptionally skilled players (as it currently stands).
.. So I know how lots of text may upset you so in brief.
PKing = Part of the game, but PKer needs to take risks.
Current System = Works fine.
and other part...
Net result is before unlocked quickbelts the entire Neocron community holds maybe 200 HL's, one for every capped APU. After the Neocron community holds more like 400...
Where are you pulling these figures from? o_O
There will be no PK friendly game that will stay for long. Why?
Well, a PK friendly game means that the PKer gains something when he kills (as you define it). That puts him on top of the economic food chain and it would be quite fun to play such a char, granted. But if you have a top of a food chain you will have a buttom (or butt :)) of it too. And the players that are at the buttom of the food chain will leave the game cause it is no fun to have taken the things you worked hard for (collecting rares isn't pure fun) by another player within seconds and most likely by getting shot in the back. So the Buttom of the food chain leaves the game. At this point the incoming resources for the PKers will dry up so they have to victimise each other. That will create a new buttom of the food chain and these players (first other combat players then former PKers that lack the skills to stay on top) will get frustrated and leave. This cycle will go on till the server population is so low that the company will quit and pull the plug. Thats why KK did the right thing in curtailing PKing. It was a simple economic decision!
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
First its not just that you can get it from pking people. There would be more of them EVERYWHERE. They would sell for probably something like half the price they do now. Why? It takes a LONG time for a HL to be wrecked and repaired so many times that it is totally destroyed. And noone is going to throw it away... Very simply before were there was one HL in the system ( the one you had ) there will now be 2 - the one you had which is now in someones storage till they trade it - and the new one you go hunting for.
The second problem with your point, is that it is self perpetuating. PKing and taking their weapon is only a terrible thing to do if its really THAT difficult to replace the weapon. If they could just pk someone and take their weapon (or buy one easier like I just explained) than its not a big deal... (And its only wrong to begin with if you consider beating someone in say a sport wrong...)
There is a slight problem in your logic, Kriminal. Why would anyone want to get a reward for pking when the reward is useless cause it is all over the game world? You want suspense in fights cause you can loose something but how much would you moan about the loss of a TL3 Heal spell? If HL or other rares are as common there will be no suspense cause it wouldn't matter if you loose one and the PK wouldn't be happy cause he looted HL 5000 times. At this point we can go back to Planetside. Loot is worthless so why even bother with a loot system.
Another problem with the logic of safe areas for noobs is, that this game is about fun and not leveling. The Aggi cellars have been one of KKs worst decisions. They are repetetive and quite boring. If you can level up very fast (even faster than now) there will be no point in bothering with leveling cause it will just be a time sink. Hello Planetside. Planetside took your logic to the point but take a look at this game and tell me if this is really fun? Don't think so or why are you still playing NC?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
On saturn? O_O
Yeah its so easy to trade on saturn I just got my good friend *Faded* (who owns you all at constructing I might add) to make me a good 6 or 7 rares....and it took me 2 days to trade for the parts I was missing to those rares.
Ooohhh so tough. The mistake people make is they only spam what they want on trade and wait for people to DM. Thats not how you do it. You watch trade-nc for people needing things, and if you got it, you msg them then demand the part you need. If they need hte part bad enough they will either cough it up or start asking friends/clanmates for the part.
Either way it works. Prime-time is good trading on Saturn.
So what was the attraction of Quake and other FPs' for all these years?.....
Wasnt it that you beat another person on skill (ping notwithstanding) alone?
Looting items and inbalancing PvP by introducing a level component never came into it
PvP always used to be its own reward. Obviously isnt anymore....
I dont have anything esle to add, others have covered why item looting just isnt going to acceptable to the masses
Shadow Dancer
21-11-03, 13:36
I would liek another reward to PvP. But it doesnt' have to be item looting. I would like some system where you earn faction points for killign enemies or PvPing.
However that can so easily be abused, alas.......:(
Well 0 pussifcation is better than a pussified game.
Look at the early days of pluto any old player should remeber the famous few that killed the aggy cellar.
They hung by the zone when the big guns game and would duke it out but if anything started going sourer they could zone to safety.
No suppose they removed safe zone instead of adding soullight what would they do when the big guns showed and the only safe spot was there ap?
Thats what shadowbane has yea full pk but chances are you are gonna be a long way from safety. So once that anti-pk crew gets on you your ina quite the bind.
KRIMINAL99
21-11-03, 17:10
Originally posted by Dark Mood
There will be no PK friendly game that will stay for long. Why?
Well, a PK friendly game means that the PKer gains something when he kills (as you define it). That puts him on top of the economic food chain and it would be quite fun to play such a char, granted. But if you have a top of a food chain you will have a buttom (or butt :)) of it too. And the players that are at the buttom of the food chain will leave the game cause it is no fun to have taken the things you worked hard for (collecting rares isn't pure fun) by another player within seconds and most likely by getting shot in the back. So the Buttom of the food chain leaves the game. At this point the incoming resources for the PKers will dry up so they have to victimise each other. That will create a new buttom of the food chain and these players (first other combat players then former PKers that lack the skills to stay on top) will get frustrated and leave. This cycle will go on till the server population is so low that the company will quit and pull the plug. Thats why KK did the right thing in curtailing PKing. It was a simple economic decision!
There is a slight problem in your logic, Kriminal. Why would anyone want to get a reward for pking when the reward is useless cause it is all over the game world? You want suspense in fights cause you can loose something but how much would you moan about the loss of a TL3 Heal spell? If HL or other rares are as common there will be no suspense cause it wouldn't matter if you loose one and the PK wouldn't be happy cause he looted HL 5000 times. At this point we can go back to Planetside. Loot is worthless so why even bother with a loot system.
well your last paragraph wansnt clear at all and didn't even seem to be directed at anything I said so Ill just skip it.
First of all... The game was already like this to begin with and there was no problem like what you said. I said there would be double the rares in the economy not some obscene number that it would take to make them valueless.. We are talking about a 3 Slot CS going from like 1 million to 500k... Not 5k...
Its a tradeoff... They are half as difficult to get but you can now lose them fairly easily. Thereby Neocron is changed from a long trek single player game where there is no challenge at the end, to a shorter trek to compete, neverending struggle.
Now about your first statement. That is rediculous. Basically what you are saying is there is some group that is either mentally retartded or has a really really bad connection and can never win pvp... which there isn't cause they wouldn't be here anyway. Everyone knows they win some and they lose some. As long as someone can win sometimes they aren't going to give up and leave the game. If they don't want to pvp at all then the LE is there (but thats what the game is about...)
@ Archaeus... Actually it was completely visible that the majority of people left after the qb changes because the adrenaline was taken out of pvp. And btw what you want is a game where pkers get totally screwed when they lose besides the fact that they have to face you against the odds so when you actually manage to kill one you can feel all warm and fuzzy.
Ill say it once more... THE ONLY justified risk/reward ratio is one which matches the odds. Otherwise people do not waste the time and this is the problem pkers have no motivation...
@5150 All those games get boring after 5 minutes once you are used to the game. At first its like "cool check out the cool graphix, the awesome weapons etc" and thats what justifies buying the game but most fps's get sickening really quickly. There is no feeling of there is something at risk, you are not adrenaline pumped. The only thing left that can make ppl continue to play is the self dillusion that they are the best, which only lasts as long as their hot streak or until someone better at the moment comes on the server. In Neocron people can just hide in safe zones all day and only fight when they know they will win and perpetuate this lie. But its still nowhere near as fun as when their in game wealth/position is at stake.
Originally posted by Archeus
Where are you pulling these figures from? o_O
Dude, any and all major clans stockpile weapons, I know of clans with tons of weapons like HL's.
A revised drop system would put that stockpile back into the market. Mix that with hunting, and guess what - all the weapons are suddenly cheaper, granted - not dirt cheap, because of the sheer amount of them.
Like Kriminal said; rare weapons, especially multislotted ones last an obscenely long time, so it's not like there's an issue of massive wreckage.
cause he looted HL 5000 times. At this point we can go back to Planetside. Loot is worthless so why even bother with a loot system.
I seem to remember a run that was arranged by a group of players for Crypto Chronic to get back a multi-slotted weapon after he dropped it...
I also remember MeGaMaN selling back weapons he looted to those he killed...
This makes the game a bit more interesting; and put's a new quark in the market.
... will get frustrated and leave.
Last time I checked, most people left after the game became what it is now.
o_O
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
@ Archaeus... Actually it was completely visible that the majority of people left after the qb changes because the adrenaline was taken out of pvp.
Maybe I was playing a different game but from what I remember of the forum there were tons of people screaming for a safe slot in the game before it changed.
The reasons I listed were for player retention but if I was to take a guess I would say the majority of players left when the LOMs were screwed up (so that you lost a level instead of small amount of XP).
Of course that and the numbers of HL's picked out of the air are just that. Speculation. Only KK have the real figures.
And btw what you want is a game where pkers get totally screwed when they lose besides the fact that they have to face you against the odds so when you actually manage to kill one you can feel all warm and fuzzy.
Erm, exactly what odds are against them? They whack easy targets. There is absolutly nothing to fear at all with the old system. With this system (or neptune) a person who PK's everything they see eventually get a challange. Just because you don't have the conhones for the challange is not my problem.
Ill say it once more... THE ONLY justified risk/reward ratio is one which matches the odds.
Correct. So when you have a level 1-20 non combat player levelling who is then faced up against a level 50-60 who is kitted out for combat, tell me who is taking the most risk and who is getting the best reward?
In Neocron people can just hide in safe zones all day and only fight when they know they will win and perpetuate this lie. But its still nowhere near as fun as when their in game wealth/position is at stake.
Except that the PKers don't want the risk. If they did they wouldn't whine so much now.
Or maybe I am wrong please explain what risk the PKer takes by whacking easy people and running away?
I also remember MeGaMaN selling back weapons he looted to those he killed...
Megaman at least two people behind the character at one point. The original one was never like that (actually the current incantation of megaman in game doesn't do it either).
Originally posted by NeoChick
Well if the only thing you want out of a game is to PK and then loot the bodies then your standards of what you want out of a game are not very demanding, I suppose. Probably you could go and play Diablo. But there you may also complain that whatever you kill are not 'real' people, so play CS or Quake or SOF, but again there you will complain that you also can't loot the bodies.
I love the way the system is at the moment at NC, even though there are some aspects that could be improved on, but PK is not one of them.
Anyway, there are so many better ways of making money in NC than PKing people and looting their bodies. I think you have not really 'played' NC except arrive on the scene like some noobs and the first question is, where can I PK? There are a lot of immature children playing this game a bit until they get bored and look for something else.
I've been playing this game since the summer of 2002. I think I have you beat for play-time. I've done everything you can in NC.
Fact is everything is super boring except PKing, and even that's a kick in the ass because unless you want to have 110 hack or whatever you need for belts, you gain nothing from it.
KRIMINAL99
21-11-03, 22:10
Originally posted by Archeus
Maybe I was playing a different game but from what I remember of the forum there were tons of people screaming for a safe slot in the game before it changed.
The reasons I listed were for player retention but if I was to take a guess I would say the majority of players left when the LOMs were screwed up (so that you lost a level instead of small amount of XP).
Of course that and the numbers of HL's picked out of the air are just that. Speculation. Only KK have the real figures.
Erm, exactly what odds are against them? They whack easy targets. There is absolutly nothing to fear at all with the old system. With this system (or neptune) a person who PK's everything they see eventually get a challange. Just because you don't have the conhones for the challange is not my problem.
Correct. So when you have a level 1-20 non combat player levelling who is then faced up against a level 50-60 who is kitted out for combat, tell me who is taking the most risk and who is getting the best reward?
Except that the PKers don't want the risk. If they did they wouldn't whine so much now.
Or maybe I am wrong please explain what risk the PKer takes by whacking easy people and running away?
Megaman at least two people behind the character at one point. The original one was never like that (actually the current incantation of megaman in game doesn't do it either).
What the hell are you talking about? Who the hell goes around all day killing only newbies? No pker cares about weather or not they can kill newbies they aren't a challenge and don't give anything worth worrying about anyways. What we are talking about here is the ability to pk IN GENERAL... Again you presume to talk about what pkers should/ should not deal with while making it perfectly obvious you are not in the emotional state of mind to rationally deal with this issue.... This time by casting all pkers as people that follow 0/2 'ers around killing them with CS'es. (Don't know anyone that does that...)
Yes some people were demanding safeslots, all the newbies who had just started the game and didn't understand it or that there would be no challenge at the end this way etc. and the GM's with them. It got changed and now those people are gone because the game got boring, or they realize what happened and are now with us.
The experienced players from beta loved the game the way it was and knew how to deal with open qbs. What was the differecne between these 2 groups? The noobs were inexperienced and didn't know how to play the game yet so they resorted to immature whining when they were pked. No post demanding/supporting locked safeslots ever has, and ever will make sense...
Anotherwords you are assuming that people that demanded the safeslot, and people that left because its addition made the game boring are mutually exclusive which they were not... Almost everyone who left said it was just because the game isn't fun anymore (and most of those specifically said PVP wasn't fun, there was no rush from it)
A PK run for me back in the day went something like this... Go to tech haven rush around, kill some PE with a pain easer, go around kill a spy at the shop, another char arrives and attacks me, kill him Then 2 or more chars/ higher levelers arrive while fighting him, maybe kill one or two of the last group then die.
The odds for this are like 1:1 for the first guy, maybe 2:1 for the spy cause they die quick when unexpectedly attacked, 1:1 for the next guy and then anything from 1:2 up for the last group... (Which is the most fun part when you have something to gain from it btw)
The qb rules place the bet like this: 5:0 for the first guy, 5:0 for the second.. third so on and so on. Because you don't have time to stop and hack even if you are a hacker. While the antipkers are a large group with many abilities and can defend one another. And even in the chance that the pker is in the wasteland AND a hacker then its just 5:1 instead of 5:0 which meanst totally not worth it. NOONE is 5 times better than anyone else... (which is basically what you are saying when you babble on about risk/reward)
Of course no PKER is going to take the risk, they have NOTHING TO GAIN. If you aren't going to argue against this point that is blatantly obvious to everyone else, then please stop running your trap about pkers "not wanting to take the risk"
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