Spy too weak(i have a solution)

[Chic0]

Spy ARE WEAK thats for sure
I got soulotion to make the spy better
make a int armors like psi have that give fire and X-ray i dont mean 2 the belt and the vest
another soulotion is to give to the spy 5 more psi so they could use shelter and to give to the spy 5 more cons so a cs wont do to them like 110 dmg per burst

[Shadow Dancer]

I have an idea too, how about making duranit armor dex based?

[Chic0]

No it will make the PE over powerd

[\\Fényx//]

Originally posted by Chic0
No it will make the PE over powerd


/me looks at tanks...


And PEs arent overpower already ? o_O

[Darkborg]

a spys strenghts are in tradeskilling and long stealth.
Giving them good armor and resist would put PEs out of buisness. I think its pretty good as it is.

[Judge]

Originally posted by \\Fényx//
/me looks at tanks...


And PEs arent overpower already ? o_O

No.... no they aren't.

As i see it with their new PA spies are fine now, because they have all the X-ray they need from the PA and loads of energy from their belts. Of course I might be completely wrong because I don't play a spy, I'm just going on common sence.

[Oath]

Spys are fine, theyre the only balanced class, as for cs doing 110 per burst.............naw,more than 70 less than 110.......specially with shelter.

Dex based armor....... i liked the idea before the PAs, now im not so sure.

[Divide]

The some things that spies really need (err rifle spies that is) is a boost in power, or a decrease in endurance drain. And maybe a +3 bonus on the Distance Weapon3, and a bonus on down the line for that chip. Hell, why not even those out with the const imps, so they would give +5 (1) +10(2) +15 (3). Also making WPL effect freq on rifles like it does on pistols and heavy's that way people could make riflers without having to gimp themselves in their chosen profession (Personally, I hack). This will give Const's and Researchers the option to be rifles, and be effective in both combat and their tradeskills.
Lots of little tweaks can make spies much better, and will make spies a new avenue for a lot of people if these tweaks are made. People think they are too weak, it just depends on the setup. My spy has resists similar to most pe's, and I can also drug for a shelter. That and a capped damage, but very low rof FL make me a tough little bastard. All it takes is some thought to make a spy a rougher than average, and these bonuses will (I believe) make spies a more viable pvp character.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Chic0
No it will make the PE over powerd


A PE can already use duranit armor, how will it make them overpowered?



I also think that spies should be able to easier cap all their rifles.

[DarkFear]

Spy isnt too weak, its ok how he is.

Greets
storm
(spy/pe/apu)

[Richard Slade]

As the ub0r Spy I ppretend to be here's a thing for ya:

"Yes a spy is WEAK ... A spy is DAMN WEAK ... A spy is one of the weakest ... A good spy don't give shit ... A good spy never get hit"

How's that for a solution

[Oath]

Originally posted by Richard Slade
As the ub0r Spy I ppretend to be here's a thing for ya:

"Yes a spy is WEAK ... A spy is DAMN WEAK ... A spy is one of the weakest ... A good spy don't give shit ... A good spy never get hit"

How's that for a solution
Not a solution, its truth.

[Richard Slade]

"never get hit" is a solution to the weak part isn't it :p

[Shadow Dancer]

I also think spies sniping capabilities should be enhanced. Either with increased ROF or increased damage.


Also, maybe giving them PSI style aiming for sniper rifles.........

[Jesterthegreat]

all i would suggest for spies is a single armour drop (like titan armour) that is high dex based.

spies are fine - i am a pistol spy, im always in the thick of things... i have no problems. and no - im not even capped yet :p

[Lenard]

add an INT + TC based shield tool!

It would be easy.

Just make an item exactly like the stealth tools + obliterator and change the effects to a shelter type spell.

Presto chango you have less people crying about how they die in 4 shots.

[Elric]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I also think spies sniping capabilities should be enhanced. Either with increased ROF or increased damage.


Also, maybe giving them PSI style aiming for sniper rifles.........

On the note of weapon changes to Spies, the biggest boost any spy could wish for is to actually make the veiwing distance at least equal to the range of the majority of the rifles (normally around 700m+ if I'm not mistaken). The biggest advantage of sniping a target is the fact that you can do it from a distance that they cannot spot you easily from. With NC the shitty draw distance hampers that completely and basically negates the biggest advantage the rifles should have.


Originally posted by Lenard
add an INT + TC based shield tool!

It would be easy.

Just make an item exactly like the stealth tools + obliterator and change the effects to a shelter type spell.

Presto chango you have less people crying about how they die in 4 shots.

Nice Idea.

[Rade]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spies, if you setup a Spy
in a certain way they will be more or less _identical_ to a PE, the
only reason Spies are usually fragile is that they choose to not
wear inq armor so that they have good protection in all three
important fields but rather get a TL115 weapon try to get as
good stats as possible. With the right setup you can get as much
armor/resist as a PE, cap damage and have good RoF on a RoLH
or a RoG, use stealth 2 and if you want take one drug to use
shelter. So whats the point of being a PE really, if you can do the
exact same thing with a Spy?

No, spies are fine, they are very versatile now and can be
specced in many different ways, and a close combat specced spy
is nothing to be laughed at, they can indeed be very powerfull
but its very rare that people chose to spec that way.

[Oath]

Originally posted by Rade
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Spies, if you setup a Spy
in a certain way they will be more or less _identical_ to a PE, the
only reason Spies are usually fragile is that they choose to not
wear inq armor so that they have good protection in all three
important fields but rather get a TL115 weapon try to get as
good stats as possible. With the right setup you can get as much
armor/resist as a PE, cap damage and have good RoF on a RoLH
or a RoG, use stealth 2 and if you want take one drug to use
shelter. So whats the point of being a PE really, if you can do the
exact same thing with a Spy?

No, spies are fine, they are very versatile now and can be
specced in many different ways, and a close combat specced spy
is nothing to be laughed at, they can indeed be very powerfull
but its very rare that people chose to spec that way.

I wondered when you were gonna show up, YAY!!!!

spys r fine.

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Elric
On the note of weapon changes to Spies, the biggest boost any spy could wish for is to actually make the veiwing distance at least equal to the range of the majority of the rifles (normally around 700m+ if I'm not mistaken).

...


RIFLE spies :p

as a pistol / droner this is no advantage (well... it would be an advantage to anyone with a decent PC - to see peeps further off, but no big advantage)

personally i say leave us spies alone!

Capped stats (off the top of my head):

100 (about that) INT
49 STR
43 CON
109 DEX (the PA changes will affect this though)
20 PSI (druggin for shelter obv)

thats fine... look like a good setup to me. thats stats w/o drugs (but with PA) and also without MC5 chips


:edit: bah Rade beat me too it :p

[Elric]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
...


RIFLE spies :p

as a pistol / droner this is no advantage (well... it would be an advantage to anyone with a decent PC - to see peeps further off, but no big advantage)


True enough, specifically rifle spies. For droners it would give the advantage of actually being able to see where the person your chasing has gone. Usually with the ever-so-slighty dodgy view updates on droners (aka, lag) people vanish past the view point before you finish shooting at them. Also being able to scout from extreme heights before moving in for a kill would be EXTREMELY useful. I see yer point about pistol Spies tho, I cant see any huge changes that would make for them... Have to think of something else for them i guess...

[Rade]

@jester: Thats more or less exactly the setup Im talking about, it
does sacrifice some offence.. nay rather lowers the amount of
available weapons, most of them arent necesary, but the defence
is on par with a PE if you drug up for a shelter, without the drug
its of course a little lower however.

[Jesterthegreat]

yup >.< - plus it has the option for either a filter heart 2 or exp heart 1, and exp foot (but unfortunatly not exp leg :()

[Scikar]

Rade, the difference is the PE doesn't need to drug to use shelter, he gets blessed deflector and he is much easier to cap.

[Richard Slade]

Originally posted by Scikar
Rade, the difference is the PE doesn't need to drug to use shelter, he gets blessed deflector and he is much easier to cap.

That VS the fact that Spies weaponry will be better.

[Jesterthegreat]

but he gets lower dmg% on blessed deflector. trust - when my spy is capped (15 dex, 15 int, 8 psi) i will give any PE a run for his money. im not sayin im best, not sayin i would kill everytime... but i would be a challenge (i also need more PvP praccy before this :p)


:edit:

i believe with an SA a PE can use a ROLH without drugs? i may be wrong on this of course as PE's arethe only class i havent capped before

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Richard Slade
That VS the fact that Spies weaponry will be better.

Well that's the point. If the spy gets PE defence then he ends up with PE offence. If he wants to get high offence and get good RoF on FL etc then he has to sacrifice inq armor, and then he's weak.

@Jester: I think PEs with SA can use RoLH without drugs, but that's using PA4, which in the next patch will go up to 105 DEX, so I think they'll need their drugs again. ;)

[Jesterthegreat]

yeah... and the PA patch will mess up spies too. iirc my combat spy setup was based on drugging into PA3

not much of a change though, i just have to live with PA2 again.

oh and dont tanks get 124 str capped (with herc) without PA? gl gettin tinto PA4 again now

oh and isnt psi PA 4 impossible to get into now too?


(by now i mean with TS patch)

[Richard Slade]

Originally posted by Scikar
Well that's the point. If the spy gets PE defence then he ends up with PE offence. If he wants to get high offence and get good RoF on FL etc then he has to sacrifice inq armor, and then he's weak.

@Jester: I think PEs with SA can use RoLH without drugs, but that's using PA4, which in the next patch will go up to 105 DEX, so I think they'll need their drugs again. ;)

Wtf?! What stupid spy would use the FL and what stupid spy would NOT use Inq?! BAH! Stupid spy

[Jesterthegreat]

lol i know... this patch makes combat spies only viable in PA 2 with a RoLH / RoG


so thats 2 useless PA's for us lol

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Richard Slade
Wtf?! What stupid spy would use the FL and what stupid spy would NOT use Inq?! BAH! Stupid spy

Perhaps the one who doesn't want to be a cookie cutter? If you use RoG and Inq armor you're a PE. You might as well reroll as a PE so that you don't have to use drugs to shelter. The theory is that spies who go for high stats on FL and disruptor should have weaker defence, fair enough. The way this works in practice is that as soon as you go for those stats, you take a huge defence hit which is out of proportion.

[Jesterthegreat]

its not about being cookie cutter... its about being affective. who would want to stand there with fuck all resists when a few obvious changes will make his char infinatly better? besides... if i cant out damage a FL i come damn close with my RoLH


:edit: i didnt wanna be a normal char - so i made a pistol spy. i have met a whooping 3 pistol spies on Uranus before me. however i wont refuse to use real armour cos you think it's cookie cutter...

[Oath]

Originally posted by Scikar
Perhaps the one who doesn't want to be a cookie cutter? If you use RoG and Inq armor you're a PE. You might as well reroll as a PE so that you don't have to use drugs to shelter. The theory is that spies who go for high stats on FL and disruptor should have weaker defence, fair enough. The way this works in practice is that as soon as you go for those stats, you take a huge defence hit which is out of proportion. A spy in INQ armor, is certainly not just a pe.......its an entirely different playin style, aside form the obvious, PEs have a massive defensive advantage over spys.

[Jesterthegreat]

Oath... i was just startin to think you knew what you were talkin about then O_o lol

will people stop bitchin about spies? i dont have my setup saved on my work PC or i would post it so peeps can see my resists...

infact... gimme 2 mins and ill find it :p

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
its not about being cookie cutter... its about being affective. who would want to stand there with fuck all resists when a few obvious changes will make his char infinatly better? besides... if i cant out damage a FL i come damn close with my RoLH


Well that's what I mean. Look at Divide's spy, caps damage on FL but has crap RoF, since he has to use Inq armor. FL without capped RoF isn't anything special, but capping RoF on it isn't viable. APUs can aim to cap their weapons without gimping themselves, tanks can, PEs can, but a spy tries to cap his weapons and suddenly he's stupidly gimped and gets screwed.

[Oath]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
Oath... i was just startin to think you knew what you were talkin about then O_o lol

will people stop bitchin about spies? i dont have my setup saved on my work PC or i would post it so peeps can see my resists...

infact... gimme 2 mins and ill find it :p hey im not bitchin


my spy pwns, his dex n int a re low thougih l;ol

[ericdraven]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
lol i know... this patch makes combat spies only viable in PA 2 with a RoLH / RoG

so thats 2 useless PA's for us lol
Hmm.. did i miss something? The reqs for the PAs didn't change on the TS, except for the PA4 (+5).

[Jesterthegreat]

*sigh* a spy aims to cap his BEST weapon and he will have to sacrifice yes. i have yet to see a single tank cap RoF and aiming on a CS so plz dont bring all this crap up...

oh and my pic of my setup has been deleted by the host hehe - ill post it again when i get home

@eric i wasnt lookin too closely... but i was under the impression all PA's went up 5?

oh and i would test it if i could get any fuckin spy PA on TS... O_o

[ericdraven]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
@eric i wasnt lookin too closely... but i was under the impression all PA's went up 5?

oh and i would test it if i could get any fuckin spy PA on TS... O_o
No, only the PA4.
PA3 is at DEX115, and that's how it is in retail as well, IIRC. :p

And yes - where the hell do you get the spy PA on the TS? I went to D11 but no one is there. o_O

[Jesterthegreat]

you dont... they dont allow you to actually TEST things there... O_o

its like how anti gama bones were on retail before the test server... O_o wtf is the point of a test server?

i get more and more bored of it everyday lol... i refuse to do 2 epics and beg a GM to spawn my pistol spy PA 2&3 just so i can see how viable they are (NOT perfect my setup - see what patched do what to them)

spies are a delicate class to play - and alot of changes will make a difference to them

[Richard Slade]

Bah I'm outta this discussion,
Rade'll tell you how it works I suppose

[Jesterthegreat]

how what works? O_o

[Oath]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
how what works? O_o
The chaos theory.

[Richard Slade]

The Spy in INQ > Assraped PE's issue that Scikar keeps denying

[Jesterthegreat]

lol I've ta;lked to Rade and QD and a few other well known peeps on here about my setup - all have suggested improvements so mine is far from perfect.

however it is shaping up well and will prolly always evolve

[SorkZmok]

Spies are fine. Dropping shelter to TL 20 would be nice but isnt really neccesary.
Actually theres 2 things i like being changed.
1. Drop inqui1 armor by 3 str each.
2. Fix the fucking First Love. One clip emptys my whole stamina pool, its got pure shit aiming for a TL 115 gun and the clip size is too small. But they already enlarged plasma rifles to 20 shots on test server, so they're on the right way.

And finally, don't forget about the fact that spies are not made for close combat. A good spie just never gets hit.
Besides that, it is possible to setup spies for close combat and they can actually be very scary then.

[Jesterthegreat]

inq armour dropping by 3 would be sweet... but not 100% needed. if that happened i could dump my zerk 2, get some dex and actually use high level weapons lol

[Dribble Joy]

How do you manage to get str 49 on a spy?
moveon
zerk2
str booster2/harden2?

[Jesterthegreat]

yup, moveon, str 2, zerk 2

+3 +3 +3

that and a PP chip really... leaves 1 Dex imp slot

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
yup, moveon, str 2, zerk 2

I'm using 2 of em only plus a drug. It just sucks you have to wear 3 str imps to access inqui1. And if you participate in Opfights without that you're dead all the time....

"Oh no, FA! ONOZ it stacks!!11"
*spy dies before he even gets his stealthtool out*

[Lethys]

Here is what I think needs to be done

1. EITHER

Make Inq/Duranit 1 reqs same as Battle 3 reqs.
OR
Reduce Shelter reqs so spies can use it w/o drugs.

2. Some rifles need vast improvements (I'm talking plasma rifles, sniper rifles, and pulse rifles to an extent.)

3. Give spies more gadgets. A stealth vision tool would be nice (as oppose to taking stealth away from PEs which has been suggested), a tracking device that requires hack skill, etc.

4. Drones need to be un-fucked.

That will be all.

[Parappa]

SA, SF, zerk2, move on, str booster 2.

INQ 1 armors, rifle pa3 and a heavy energy belt.

Add l33t con setup and a shelter. That's a very scary spy right there.

[Chic0]

spies need a fire pents with like +100 fire -5 int -15Wpl

[Ozambabbaz]

drop Inq1 set to 36-40 str=teh win

[wolfwood]

unfortunatly i had this idea previously and you would have to take 10 points out of a different skill in order to add 5 to psi and con. As for duranit armor, ill stick to spy pa 3 and 4.

[SnotNosedBrat]

ive seen ROG do very close damage to a CS

spies are viable for duels/pking if setup right

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Parappa
SA, SF, zerk2, move on, str booster 2.

INQ 1 armors, rifle pa3 and a heavy energy belt.

Add l33t con setup and a shelter. That's a very scary spy right there.


Yes, but you don't get decent stats on FL. Spies are supposed to have a damage advantage over PEs.

I don't really have a problem TBH, spies are fairly balanced when properly setup. But I do think they should have more options than the cookie cutter imp for inq 1 setup.


Originally posted by Chic0
spies need a fire pents with like +100 fire -5 int -15Wpl

Erm.. no. 100+ Xray armor, 100+ fire armor, and 70+ energy armor, before you even start with resists? Just a tad overpowered methinks.

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Parappa
SA, SF, zerk2, move on, str booster 2.

INQ 1 armors, rifle pa3 and a heavy energy belt.

Add l33t con setup and a shelter. That's a very scary spy right there.
And a lot of fun using 2 drugs to put on PA3 and one to keep it working. o_O

Also that setup fucks your r-c/p-c.

[Oath]

So............its this weeks big bitch.

First, apus, then ppus, then tanks then PEs and now spys.

Spys are in NO way overpowered.
Tanks are NOT overpowered
APU monks NEED fine tuning but arent overpowered
ppus are *shuddders* getting nerfed*
Pes are somewhat overpowered.


Whats next?

Nerf the warbot?? doesnt he do enough damage?

[Jesterthegreat]

*sigh* leave the spy as is... there is no problem with it.

lower reqs on duranit 1 / inq 1 would be nice... but its not needed tbh

just all stop suggestin changes before kk sees and puts them in O_o spies are the only balanced class IMO

[KimmyG]

Originally posted by Chic0
Spy ARE WEAK thats for sure
I got soulotion to make the spy better
make a int armors like psi have that give fire and X-ray i dont mean 2 the belt and the vest
another soulotion is to give to the spy 5 more psi so they could use shelter and to give to the spy 5 more cons so a cs wont do to them like 110 dmg per burst


I got a better soluation spec a combat spy there have been a few real good setups posted.

[Jest]

I think spies are fine as they are with the one exception already mentioned, the viewing distance being way shorter than the guns range. It would be nice for spies to actually shoot as far as they are capable of doing.

As for PEs I think the new PA restrictions are good. Personally I'd rather not see PEs using a Ray of God, I think the dex req should be raised on that.

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry I stand by the fact that spies are underpowered. I still haven't fought a spy to defeat me in a 1v1.


Maybe if they had a couple of other technological toys, then I would consider them "fine". But I don't think they are. And super duper gimpage just to cap their rifles, is silly.

[Liquid_Ice]

As a combat spies for now I can only ask for a 5 TL drop for shelter.. That would make me happy and help me kick my drug habbit..

[Divide]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Sorry I stand by the fact that spies are underpowered. I still haven't fought a spy to defeat me in a 1v1.


Maybe if they had a couple of other technological toys, then I would consider them "fine". But I don't think they are. And super duper gimpage just to cap their rifles, is silly.

I agree with the gimpage thing, but you need to fight some more spies, and an actual combat spy... come to saturn, even though I believe you are already there, and level a char and give me a dm.


And a lot of fun using 2 drugs to put on PA3 and one to keep it working.

that isnt true, it does need the 2 drugs to put on, but it does not need any more to keep on

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Divide
I agree with the gimpage thing, but you need to fight some more spies, and an actual combat spy... come to saturn, even though I believe you are already there, and level a char and give me a dm.



help me level :p

[Rade]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Sorry I stand by the fact that spies are underpowered. I still haven't fought a spy to defeat me in a 1v1.


Maybe if they had a couple of other technological toys, then I would consider them "fine". But I don't think they are. And super duper gimpage just to cap their rifles, is silly.

Fight k4f on pluto.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Rade
Fight k4f on pluto.


:lol:

No comment.

[Chic0]

i am a tank on pluto name roro and i would like 2 fight him and 2 show 2 u the Spy are weak !!

[Oath]

Originally posted by Chic0
i am a tank on pluto name roro and i would like 2 fight him and 2 show 2 u the Spy are weak !! Dude, if your trying to be uber, please dont use numbers for to, too and two..........


thats just 14M3,

1337 5P34K PWN5 j00

anyway, i hear k4f is good.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Oath
Dude, if your trying to be uber, please dont use numbers for to, too and two..........


thats just 14M3,

1337 5P34K PWN5 j00

.


hahahahha :lol:


Originally posted by Oath


anyway, i hear k4f is good.


w0t kind of a spy is he?

[Furion]

k4f is pistols.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Furion
k4f is pistols.



omg, a pistol spy.


Help

:rolleyes:




:p

[Furion]

he is kinda scary. one minute hes in front of u, the next hes behind u being all gay :p

[Rade]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
omg, a pistol spy.


Help

:rolleyes:




:p

Well, I have a harder time with him than I have with you.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Rade
Well, I have a harder time with him than I have with you.



Did you pop 555 drugs and precast DB sanctum on him?



:lol:



Please don't judge me based on a few battles either, otherwise I have a right to say you're a horrible FPS player based on your first 2 horrible performances against me in neofrag. K THX


"omg finally I got my aim back"

Right......... :lol:

[Jesterthegreat]

i gotta remember to post my setup here...

i got a personal setup and one im workin on with someone (which i will not disclose info on). both are looking similar (although tbh i prefer mine :p)

all i need to match my capped setup is a PP, 10 dex, 10 int, 8 psi and a whole lot of loms... O_o

[•Super|\|ova•]

Spies are weak. So what? They are supposed to be weaker than other classes. Spies are the best class if you want some tradeskills. No one can deny that. Well, ofcourse you CAN but if you do you're a retard :)

If you want a fighter that actually can fight in close range combat then make a tank or a PE. Spies are for scouting and sniping. Why should every damn class be able to be even decent in close range combat? o_O

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Spies are weak. So what? They are supposed to be weaker than other classes. Spies are the best class if you want some tradeskills. No one can deny that. Well, ofcourse you CAN but if you do you're a retard :)

If you want a fighter that actually can fight in close range combat then make a tank or a PE. Spies are for scouting and sniping. Why should every damn class be able to be even decent in close range combat? o_O


but they are not weak... thats what me and a few others here are trying to say. we are not tryin to make it an ego / best setup thread... but show that it is 100% possible to have a good close range spy.

hell my spy is ** rank and hes no where near capped. and thats not with all Dex imps (which would boost my spy massivly - combat rank wise). my spy can only just use a lib, and hes ** rank with 180 pc, 95 tc and AFAIK capped or near capped run speed. i run as fast as capped melee tanks...

my resist setup is good. there is no way someone with over 100 xray and 70odd energy and 70odd fire resist just from armour is gonna be weak... unless you spec no resists at all!

my spy will only have about 300-350 health. however he wont need any drugs, and will have good resists, nice runspeed, and a RoLH

[•Super|\|ova•]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
but they are not weak... thats what me and a few others here are trying to say. we are not tryin to make it an ego / best setup thread... but show that it is 100% possible to have a good close range spy.

hell my spy is ** rank and hes no where near capped. and thats not with all Dex imps (which would boost my spy massivly - combat rank wise). my spy can only just use a lib, and hes ** rank with 180 pc, 95 tc and AFAIK capped or near capped run speed. i run as fast as capped melee tanks...

my resist setup is good. there is no way someone with over 100 xray and 70odd energy and 70odd fire resist just from armour is gonna be weak... unless you spec no resists at all!

my spy will only have about 300-350 health. however he wont need any drugs, and will have good resists, nice runspeed, and a RoLH

Do you play on Pluto? o_O I'm really not at my sharpest (haven't been for awhile since I played APU so long time as my alt) with my HC tank atm but I really want to see a spy who can beat a decent tank in a close range combat.

[Oath]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
but they are not weak... thats what me and a few others here are trying to say. we are not tryin to make it an ego / best setup thread... but show that it is 100% possible to have a good close range spy.
As with any-other class, played correctly / well. they pwn.

[Jesterthegreat]

i am Uranus. i am also 10 dex / int and 8 psi from capping, in need of lomming, AND in need of a PP chip.

however once thats done... i will be combat ready.

ill post setup tonight i hope. its on afew other threads, but the hosts all deleted the pics so you cant see :p lol



:edit: @Oath... exactly >.<

i know PPU's i can shred with a Wyatt Earp. i know APU's i prolly wouldnt even hit.

it all comes down to skill (which playing specialist improves vastly >.<)

[•Super|\|ova•]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
i am Uranus. i am also 10 dex / int and 8 psi from capping, in need of lomming, AND in need of a PP chip.

however once thats done... i will be combat ready.

ill post setup tonight i hope. its on afew other threads, but the hosts all deleted the pics so you cant see :p lol



:edit: @Oath... exactly >.<

i know PPU's i can shred with a Wyatt Earp. i know APU's i prolly wouldnt even hit.

it all comes down to skill (which playing specialist improves vastly >.<)

Fuck :mad: I don't want to see your set up. I want to fight you :) Does anyone know is k4f still playing on Pluto/at all? Since I've heard he's good I'd like to fight him then :)

[Oath]

yes he still plays

yes hes good

yes hes a drug abusing whore

yes hes fast

[Jesterthegreat]

come to uranus... by the time i bother to cap you will be capped / near capped lol

then we can fight >.<


im a << << << PPU (with Rez) on Pluto now days... still a noob heh

[•Super|\|ova•]

Hell no :lol: I have 2 characters on Pluto and a clan. I sure wont waste my time on Uranus :p sorry.

[Jesterthegreat]

lol... its attitudes like that that ruin the game :p

'OMG! my [insert class here] can pwn all spies!'
'OMG! all servers but pluto are noob servers!'

i would assume from the ':p' it was a joke... but its still pathetic...



:edit: and you do realise you wont lose your players / clan by playing Uranus? o.O

[•Super|\|ova•]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
lol... its attitudes like that that ruin the game :p

'OMG! my [insert class here] can pwn all spies!'
'OMG! all servers but pluto are noob servers!'

i would assume from the ':p' it was a joke... but its still pathetic...



:edit: and you do realise you wont lose your players / clan by playing Uranus? o.O

I meant what I said o_O I have really better things to do than cap a tank on Uranus just to duel you dude. Soooo... I won't waste my time on it.

[Jesterthegreat]

i love people who claim to be so good and yet wont make any effort to prove it >.<

[Oath]

/me grabs jester and nova by the ears...........


NOW YOU BOYS PLAY NICE, remember junkie, when i get on uraunus i got a tank that'll whupp your ass, so Dm me / pm me whatever

and ill try get on laters/

[•Super|\|ova•]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
i love people who claim to be so good and yet wont make any effort to prove it >.<

FFS dude, you come down here and take care of my studies and my 2 tanks on Pluto (other needs 3 more CON lvls to be totally capped and other one is like mid level tank and needs ALOT more) and pay for the fun THEN I will "make some effort to prove it >.<", ok?

//Edit: And I never said I'm good either!

[Jesterthegreat]

'take care of' your tanks? lol... all you gotta do is stop playin em for a few days, not like they will starve or something >.<

and it will take you a week to cap on uranus assuming you can get weapons made etc :p

and ok i admit you didnt say you were good... i take that back O_o however you say you wanna see a "spy who can beat a decent tank in a close range combat."

...

well it 100% depends on the skill level of the tank and spy!

personally i can name tanks i could beat, and tanks i would get shredded by. im not capped yet either


:edit:

lol @ Oath... you Vs. my spy? >.< i ph34r your melee nooblet not :p

[•Super|\|ova•]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
'take care of' your tanks? lol... all you gotta do is stop playin em for a few days, not like they will starve or something >.<

Well, they wont cap by theirselves either. Nor do they participate in politics without me. Nor do they participate in OPwars without me.

/me starts eating hot dogs and watching a movie

[Oath]

Well...........i actually meant my tank on uranus.........the heavy combat one? ring a bell?


I'll ring it alright, i'll clean your clock too :p

Anyway if i make it onto uranus later, Dm me, we'll go play NF :p

And stop the bashing..........or i wont give you a chance.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Spies are weak. So what? They are supposed to be weaker than other classes. Spies are the best class if you want some tradeskills. No one can deny that. Well, ofcourse you CAN but if you do you're a retard :)

If you want a fighter that actually can fight in close range combat then make a tank or a PE. Spies are for scouting and sniping. Why should every damn class be able to be even decent in close range combat? o_O



Well you're partially right. I just think in terms of combat each char shold be equal, but in a different way.


Equal but different. They should really imrpove the sniper capabilities of spies.

[Peeping Tom]

Originally posted by Furion
he is kinda scary. one minute hes in front of u, the next hes behind u being all gay :p
LoL hehe Viruz im not gay more havent you heard ? but im still femenine...
any way i got no chanse against apus i think.. since i still havent lomed and re caped for shelter use
K4F

[Magnazan]

Fight Ste-X's pistol spy and tell me they are weak

[Mirco]

The solution to spy weakness is:

Let the spy use inquisition armor 1. I have a setup I picked up here on the forum. With 3 pieces of inquisition 1 you got good energy, x-ray and you also got fire fairly covered. This setup is gimpin me to some degree and also requires some hard to get chips. Moveon, SF and SA(if you wanna use slasher) to be presise.
I havent checked the numbers before and after, but the difference is that it gives me just enough time to initate stealth when a monk goes elemental on my ass. Its nowhere near being overpowered. What you get is just that extra second or two to stealth away.

Fact is that it is known that most spies have only got 2 good resists and those usually being x-ray and energy you leave 2 open and then you are fubar no matter how you juggle them.

Edit: Oh this is an old post, sorry for the most useless post ever. Didnt read through it, but all I said had apparently been said before.

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Mirco
The solution to spy weakness is:

Let the spy use inquisition armor 1.

Thats all that spies really need. inqui1 and dura1 reqs dropped to 40 to 46 str. Less reqs would already be too much. With a good setup and some drugs a spy can already be very powerful. And that includes opfights! Just learn how to use drugs the right way.
And i'm dont mean "just 2 more seconds to stealth away"-powerful.
;)

[g0rt]

make duranit armor dex requirement

[Morris]

Originally posted by SorkZmok
Thats all that spies really need. inqui1 and dura1 reqs dropped to 40 to 46 str. Less reqs would already be too much.

Yes! With Inq 1 reqs from 40-46 str, those of us who currently imp for +9 str can choose to drop either the zerk 2 (for a pc/rc or +dex imp) or the str booster 2 (reflex 4 anyone?). Right now an Inq 1 spy (without drugs) has to choose to be either slow or majorly gimped for pc/rc :|

EDIT: I'm no expert, but what spy setup uses Duranit? Seems like Inq 1/PA x/nrg belt would give better all around protection, since duranit pieces only give +9-ish energy.

[Jesterthegreat]

no one uses duranit... unless they want loadsa trans and lower the resist force i guess?

yeah my spy is the new 'cookie cutter':

SF
MOVEON
PPR
Zerk 2
Str Booster 2


i also use:
Exp foot
Exp Heart 1

i think this is slightly different to most?

oh and of course its inq 1 / PA / NRG belt


so yeah... i like to think i did it before it became common though...

[Morris]

My current setup is pretty much the same, but I use SA instead of PPR, and Strengthen Hear 2 instead of Exp Heart. Since this gives me exactly 113 dex after PA2 I'm tempted to go back to pistols (since I LOOOOOVE Slasher), but imping for str has gimped my rc something fierce (which is the real problem with the spy IMO).

[L0KI]

Theres a spy in my clan who drugs for shelter, and takes around 38-42 dmg per burst from capped xray/fire CS.

Dont believe me, log into Uranus and DM Kid Brainiac. He will be more than happy to prove it ;)

[XanX]

How about changing the stats of shelter so that its only 50-52 ppu not 56 ppu, cus it puts it out of the range of drugging spies, something like basic resist 3 for PE's, they can drug and use it, so cant spies use it aswell???

[QuantumDelta]

Make shelter TL 18 :p

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by L0KI
Theres a spy in my clan who drugs for shelter, and takes around 38-42 dmg per burst from capped xray/fire CS.

Dont believe me, log into Uranus and DM Kid Brainiac. He will be more than happy to prove it ;)

yup... spies (when setup right) have superb defenses.

however they dont have good defenses + health+speed +damage... you gotta try to find a combo that works for you.

personally i will have good defence, 333 health with self buffs, 80/80 ath agi (iirc) and slightly lower defence.

i will also be setteling with stealth 1 rather than 2 (sorry i argued with ya about this QD >.<)


Originally posted by Quantum Delta
Make shelter TL 18

that would be sweet... and a viable solution too. however it would also raise effectiveness of it for PE's i would assume (i dont use one so i dunno if it caps easy already - afaik you cant use blessed shelter)

just a thought, i could be totally wrong :D

[Peeping Tom]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
yup... spies (when setup right) have superb defenses.

however they dont have good defenses + health+speed +damage... you gotta try to find a combo that works for you.

personally i will have good defence, 333 health with self buffs, 80/80 ath agi (iirc) and slightly lower defence.
:D
depends on how much drugs you want to eat :P
with Shades\Beast\Para forte\Destrol Forte\Whiteflash .. my spy got decent armour\shelter\Runspeed\fire pwr.. OMG YES ITS TRUE i lomed to shelter and it fucking pwns


that would be sweet... and a viable solution too. however it would also raise effectiveness of it for PE's i would assume (i dont use one so i dunno if it caps easy already - afaik you cant use blessed shelter)
hm i cant really decide for lower lv 1 armour and\or TL 18 shelter.. both seems kinda wrong.. for spies
but yeah for personaly gains i would say hell yeah..
but it seems kinda wrong for spies... oh well Drugs are my spy best friend
K4F

[Jesterthegreat]

my char has no drugs - under 10% damage taken in all (except poison) according to the char planner - 333 health with self buffs - stealth 1 - 80/80 ath/agi - however slightly lower pc than i hoped for.

i am also planning a drugged char. beast / para forte / dest forte / redflash... MASSIVE speed - nice health - shelter. maybe lom some ath / agi and get better resists / health / pc

[Peeping Tom]

Forgot to say i got 430hp drugged\noob buff
i wouldnt do red flash or recomend my setup for other than dueling pourpus..
SS\SF\PP cpu\Move on\Reflex 4(or exp reflex 4) PA 3
combo of exp\bat\gamma bones
since i got like 40\30 atl\agl no drug :P shades+beast = boom i got 70\70++ atl\agl.. and good for 10 min
K4F

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
however they dont have good defenses + health+speed +damage... you gotta try to find a combo that works for you.
330 health, inqui 1, heavy enr belt, pa 3, 100/90 agl/alt and i think 196 r-c.

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by SorkZmok
330 health, inqui 1, heavy enr belt, pa 3, 100/90 agl/alt and i think 196 r-c.

quite an impressive setup... however whats your tc and what weapon / stealth is that?

by looking at that i would assume its a lowtech setup?

my setup (70 ath / agi - 86 tc [unboosted] - 166 pc [iirc]) has a slight offensive flaw :(

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
quite an impressive setup... however whats your tc and what weapon / stealth is that?

by looking at that i would assume its a lowtech setup?
I`m using Stealth2 and a Disruptor with capped dmg and 195 shots per minute

/edit
Imo stealth 2 is just great. Even stealth 3 already is a waste of points...

[Richard Slade]

Originally posted by SorkZmok
I`m using Stealth2 and a Disruptor with capped dmg and 195 shots per minute

/edit
Imo stealth 2 is just great. Even stealth 3 already is a waste of points...

Quote this:
"EVERYONE finds a moment in his or her life where 90sec of
stealth is the most important thing in his or her life."
Therefor go for oblit :D

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Richard Slade
Quote this:
"EVERYONE finds a moment in his or her life where 90sec of
stealth is the most important thing in his or her life."
Therefor go for oblit :D

Well i would like to use obli but i just dont wanna waste so much just for more stealthtime.
For me 30 secs (or 25? dunno exactly...) are great. In a big fight its way more than enough to pop a medikit and some drugs, change position or access the gogu. Also great to stealth in and kill the hackers. ;)

And with 90/100 atl/agl 30 seconds are way more than enough to run away unseen.

[necrocon]

Well I got bored of my spy no he was not capped just never was into the spy thing really. There long range islimited since all the scope does is just ind of blow the map up a little there fore cutting the edges out. it does not actualy increase the range. They are weak and it is hard for a spy to help in OP wars since you have a targeting square unlike many games you can just aim over someones shoulder. here you cant have to actualy wait till your buddy is out of they way totaly. but it is true a good spy doesnt get hit

If I remember correctly isnt athletics and agility capped I forget what the cap level is some say 70 others say 110. for each individual stat so 110 ath 110 agil

Armor would still be nice since the armor I think is only good for xray dont remember that either didnt play with spy armor much could maybe use heavy energy with the armor and put your con in energy and xray.

then again there is a guy feenix or something that can take 10+ CAPPED Holy Lightning hits (rare spell) and still live might want to talk to him that was a PE of his.

[Jesterthegreat]

sork? what is you rdex setup? cos AFAIK its not possible to have the stats you claim without masses of drugs?

or what are your imps? i suppose if you dont have PPR in you would get higher dex stats - but less defense

[Load_HeavyLoad]

Going Back To a Post i posted ages ago if you raise the Psi Cap of a Spy to Say enough to use the lvl 2 psi boots then psi armou, then minus the stats from STR i tihkn that would balance it out abit,
A: in the manual it says SpiesHave the secodn highest psi abilityO_o
B: A mix of psi and normal armou + Resist force to get the Right Pierce and force then for psui armour to add to fire and xray adn most importantly energy.

OR you could do it the other way lower Psi cap to i dunno say 10ish then put the extra into STR combined with a Zerk 1 or moveon a spy can use Duranit and inquistion One

Both Would Put the spy back ont he roster for Pvp

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
sork? what is you rdex setup? cos AFAIK its not possible to have the stats you claim without masses of drugs?

or what are your imps? i suppose if you dont have PPR in you would get higher dex stats - but less defense

I dont use a PP. I like to have more attack power than defense.
My setup is quite weird, needs capped dex, v high int, SA and SF to work. It also needs drugs:
Desostrol forte to cast shelter when i'm in duels or all alone in a fight.
Beast to access inqui1 and redflash for speed. Works fine cause in opfights i only need beast, im a bit slower then but ive got ppu support. Also beast and redflash last 5 minutes so you can use em quite a long time before the flash hits you hard.

And no, i wont tell my exact imp setup. o_O
Figure one out yourself. :)

[Oath]

Originally posted by Load_HeavyLoad
Going Back To a Post i posted ages ago if you raise the Psi Cap of a Spy to Say enough to use the lvl 2 psi boots then psi armou, then minus the stats from STR i tihkn that would balance it out abit,
A: in the manual it says SpiesHave the secodn highest psi abilityO_o
B: A mix of psi and normal armou + Resist force to get the Right Pierce and force then for psui armour to add to fire and xray adn most importantly energy.

OR you could do it the other way lower Psi cap to i dunno say 10ish then put the extra into STR combined with a Zerk 1 or moveon a spy can use Duranit and inquistion One

Both Would Put the spy back ont he roster for Pvp Spies already have access to it all, so why bother taking one thig away to add another, spys are the only balanced class in the whole game, lets be honest, they cant take a mass amount of damage, nor deal it, and theyre not the fastest, but theyre not supposed to be the 'combat' class, hte fact they can do it now is enough to make me happeh.

[Jesterthegreat]

lol i have one figured out no worries

and you use SA and SF and 2 drugs? well that would explain the setup then :p my setup involves no drugs, med - quick runspeed, 333 health (own buffs) and all pvp damage below 10% (according to char planner)

i use no drugs, inq 1 set (w/ PA) and heavy NRG belt

[Load_HeavyLoad]

it invovles a SA or Kami junkie, once i get on IRC ill discuss wit you, (i was he spy at Redrock who killed you :) but u manged to take 2 ppus lol )

[Jesterthegreat]

lol - who were those PPU's btw? :lol:

oh and btw i was drugging into a lib in that fight :p and you only killed me cos i missed my stealth tool and munched a stamana booster :p

:edit: although i no longer use i have a pistol kami so i can experiment with setups :p just need an SA lol

[Load_HeavyLoad]

Ay,
dunno which oens they were one was wolfcraft (caught her offgaurd) and i think the other was Wiseman L33 who its learnign the ways of the PPU :)

[Jesterthegreat]

omg lol i killed Lee! :p

and i cant discuss it on irc as i dont have access at work. all irc servers are blocked

[Load_HeavyLoad]

Balls PM then :) but what is the farking enterthegame. (whats next) .net and .com dont work on .net it timesout and .com jsut doesnt exist lol :p

[Jesterthegreat]

irc.enterthegame.com iirc


:edit: posted in SUKING thread

[Load_HeavyLoad]

pistols spies have it easy tho ROLH and Judge u only need 2 dex imps SA + SF Rest can be Kami, Dist 3 Zerkies Str back, Int watever a rifler is way harder tho

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Load_HeavyLoad
Going Back To a Post i posted ages ago if you raise the Psi Cap of a Spy to Say enough to use the lvl 2 psi boots then psi armou, then minus the stats from STR i tihkn that would balance it out abit,
A: in the manual it says SpiesHave the secodn highest psi abilityO_o
B: A mix of psi and normal armou + Resist force to get the Right Pierce and force then for psui armour to add to fire and xray adn most importantly energy.

OR you could do it the other way lower Psi cap to i dunno say 10ish then put the extra into STR combined with a Zerk 1 or moveon a spy can use Duranit and inquistion One

Both Would Put the spy back ont he roster for Pvp


only just noticed this...

NO no lowering str... no changing stats... leave it as it is lol

[Mirco]

How about a imp that goes in the hart spot, but really is a filther device to remove drug residues out of the body quicker. This lets the spy use more drugs with less hangover. Doesnt have to be much, but arent any of you drugguys being bothered by the hangover? I only use redflash atm to use rolh and when I stealth alot the hangover is unbearable. I can fight for 5 minutes and then it is waiting a long time to get well again. Sometimes I feel tempted for a teammate to kill me and get me ressed as that removes the effect.

I also wished that we had more refined drug devices. Lets say you can make drug coctails that can be suited to purpouse, length of effect, strength and hangovers.

[Jesterthegreat]

drugs are made for a temp boost - with bad side effects. this stops people depending on them (or it should) hence why my setup will not include a single one (except for duels - shelter)

i would disagree with it - and i wouldnt lose the heart i used for this anyway.

if this was to go in i would want it to reduce 'drugflash' but reduce the length too... good and bad effects

[SigmaDraconis]

spies are fine..you can reduce all damage types below 7% (bar POR) but its not _That_ big of an issue if you know how to use antidotes, use and cap (or near cap) RoLH..and by swapping one imp you can use and get good stats on an SH...this is with _one_ drug.. for shelter.. otherwise yur looking at 10% damages. which isnt bad considering spy is supposed to be the weakest class defensivly ;P


If u wanna be a true drug whore..spies can get unreal.. lol

[Jesterthegreat]

sounds extremely similar to my setup >.<

yeah my setup is shaping up nicely IMO, i have had a few of the people who know most about the game offer suggestions... and its improving constantly

[Rade]

Originally posted by Load_HeavyLoad
pistols spies have it easy tho ROLH and Judge u only need 2 dex imps SA + SF Rest can be Kami, Dist 3 Zerkies Str back, Int watever a rifler is way harder tho

What on earth are you talking about? RoG is the best rifle and
RoLH is the best pistol. RoG is dex 98 and RoLH is dex 108.

[Load_HeavyLoad]

Yeah But For my Spy warfare i need a SH, Dissie And FL Which are all around tl 115 whihc brigns me to my other poitn lower the Dex req on FL to 111 then SH at 113 then Dissie at 115 or SH at 113 and Dissie at 115...

[Jesterthegreat]

dude... thats like sayin i need the slasher... so now i need 113 dex :p

and besides... what pistol spy would use SF / SA? assuming you still have the str imps for inq 1 - that leaves NO room for PPR and NO room for kami :p

unless you wanna be a drug whore? personally i prefer to pvp without drugs (although you level quicker with them so i occasionally use them for this

[Rade]

What are you talking about? You said riflers have it hard and
pistolers have it easy, when its the other way around. dis is
almost useless anyway stealth 2 and RoG would be my choice for
a fighter spy.

**edit: and thats because you can use that, and still wear inq 1
without any drugs, very good setup which is easy on your playing
if you cant handle all the drugging.

[Shadow Dancer]

Um Jester, where's your avatar from?

[Roc-a-fella]

jESTER your effing spamming this thread

[SorkZmok]

I just owned NF. Now i cant even see straight. So its bedtime i think.

Onoz Pluto and Saturn kill my ass!