View Full Version : Who owns the OutPost?
Eric Cobalt
16-11-03, 02:38
1 Year and 2 Month ago, I was a little stupid (pvp) nub playing monk on Jupiter. My first war and one of the best I ever experienced (I took part in hundreds of wars since these days)started one Month after I started playing NC. My Faction (TG) fought at Tezla every evening against Tangent, sometimes Biotech, sometimes Next. after 2 or 3 battles is was clear who owns the op. there was no contract between the nc facions and us to stop attacking after a couple of times. The looser accepted his defeat and retreated.
Times changed. First of all, the beltdrop disappeared. Skillfull pvp/pk clans like the 4 man army LR couldnt earn any money with killing ppl and selling "loot". But no one thought about the effect that the missing beltdrop would have on op fights. The first time I really saw the difference was at Eastgate. We hacked the op at 13:00 o'clock , we got 7 ppl online, the enemy 12. The enemy attacked, lost. Nice fight. one Hour later the enemy attacked again, lost. Nice fight again. one Hour later the enemy attacked again.. guess what. we got bored.
we where at eastgate till 20:00. The enemy attacked again and again with rotating teams. 5 ppl went frustrated offline, the rest of us left the op. 30 minutes later we received the hackwarning. We didnt returned to the op. this happened day by day, over 2 month. Coz of that and some other things one of the most powerful clans ever died slowly. His members went to different clans.
One Month after this, beltdrop returned to Jupiter. The Clan who took eastgate got bashed again and again by several clans and disappeared from Jupiter.
Now, other clans ruled the map. The clans who zerged even if they outnumber the enemy, just to make sure they wont drop anything that could be expensive. if even all allies arent enuff to win the fight, they started n8hacking, ninjahacking, offlinehacking and some other really l33t tactics. Coz of that, a lot of ppl who kept Jupiter vital left. Some are here, in =ZERG=.
Except a very big TG Clan, I never fought a clan here who is terrorhacking, or zerging. Fights were cool and remembered me of early Jupiter times.
So I ressurected =ZERG= on Pluto with some old and some new players. we lvled up, organized equipment, tried to make us part of Pluto. After all of that, we want what every pvp based clan wants - an own op. SXR made the offer to let us take Simmons and hold it against a big tsunami clan.
We hacked Simmons, and hold it 2 days long. then we received a hack warning. we took everything we got online (most were midlvls) and kicked a big TG and a big tsunami clan out of Simmons.
We defeated the 2 attack waves after that alone, after half of our ppl went offline, 5 NDA took part in the battle, and we won again. we waited something bout 45 minutes, nobody attacked simmons. we went in our club appartment to hav a party bout the first battles zerg dealed alone.
after 1 hour (4 ppl online) simmons got hacked. we fought a couple of times at simmons again in the next days, won every fight, but couldnt hold the op coz the attackers returned again and again and we dont really want to fight 24/7. So we decided to pick another enemy. We hacked Jeriko, defeated the opposing clan 3 times. After one of them told me that his clan will return the whole night, we left jeriko with a sad feeling, coz we knew we will loose this op too.
Today, we hacked hawkins, defeated the attackers 2 times, hacked drakkan and rockshore and defeated the same clan 3 times. After most of us went offline, the clan returned and hacked rockshore and drakkan back. One of them directed me and said an important sentence:
It isnt important who won the fights, it is important which clantag is on the op at the end of the day.
Is this the truth? Is a person, who accepts defeat after loosing a couple of battles, fair or just lazy? Is returning again and again to the same op brave or annoying?
Discuss it or Flame me and my evil english knowledge (sorry bout that, I hope anyone can read the thread o_O )
greetz
/EC
I totally agree that when a clan loses the battle over an op twice, they should lose the op for at least a few days before they can attack again, but how could this be "forced" into the game?
I guess the players aren't playing fair anymore.
On Uranus, we had multiple times now that we hacked an op, nobody showed up, hacked another op, nobody showed up, most of the clan went offline because of RL issues (our bodies do need sleep now and then) and the next day the ops were taken back again.
What can KK do against this? Or is this something that is purely up to the community...
Cruzbroker
16-11-03, 03:26
Well, maybe, After a hack TRY, the op would get immunity after 60 mins for few days?
though this would prevent other clans too , and exploited (friendly hacking it once) .. . aww..
Eric Cobalt
16-11-03, 03:40
and offline hacking will rule the map.. hacking immunity for days cant be the solution :/
Big Tsunami Clan........ if by that you mean P.I.M.P. you well are hmmmmm how can i put this nicely....... a dumbass. All of pimp has pretty much quit, but if its some other tsunami clan meh.
Dribble Joy
16-11-03, 04:17
Players on Jupiter seem to have a different outlook on OP wars than the other servers.
The belt rules on Jupiter were changed back to the original rules, (I think this is right) after a few clans started complaining that the no drops in OP wars made a few other clans able to repeatedly attrack OPs for hours. The other clans didn't like this, so it was changed. People on the other servers felt that bringing back the old rules would stop OP fighting in it's tracks, no one would want to risk loosing equipment and by the time two or three fights had been fought, you had to get new guns. Also they felt that not willing to fight for an OP 24/7 was a sign that you didn't deserve that OP. If you want it, fight for it.
The concepts of fun/enjoyment seemed to be different. Jovians wanted the OP no matter what and for it to be left alone if you beat people off. On the other servers, fun and fighting, not the OP itself was more important. Like you said, you considered the name on the OP at the end of the day to be more important. To the others, the fighting was. (This appeared to be split between the German and English comunities respectively.)
When the belt drop changes were announced, there was a huge uproar in the Engilsh community, and the rules only changed on Jupiter.
If a clan(s) continue to come back again and again, it's because they love fighting, not to be annoying. If holding the OP is your primary aim, then hold it.
I dunno why these differences appeared between the two main communities, but they have, and both seem to be happy with the state of affairs as it is.
Bah, what do I know.
SnotNosedBrat
16-11-03, 04:42
this happens on saturn too
a fight with tg ends with whoever logs first
its boring and a pain in the ass
Agreed with everthing there ..... its just disheartening when you know that certain clans will always have more ppl on than you after the majority of yours has logged for the night, then that clan will just hack the OP back with no force to fight agaisnt them... :( Happened twice to us in the last 3 days ... Whats the point ? O_o
I dont like the beltdrop rules on jupiter. The only thing it leads to is that you dont just attack, you prepare forever, get more ppl then the defending team to be sure you'll win, it fucks smaller clans and new clans.
Also it totally limits the used weapons. Rifle PEs use Pain Easer, Pistol PEs use RolH, spies use SH, monks HL and tanks bring cs and tsg. PPUs are totally fucked, but no wait, they dont die anyway. o_O
If i`m the only one online and i get a hack warning, i go and check the op. Kill the poor little hacker if its just one idiot or die if its a big group of ppl. I would never even think about doing that on jupiter. I would just curse the attackers and wait for more ppl or call in allies to beat the shit out of the attackers.
Jupiter sucks :)
/edit: more thoughts...
And what about smaller clans or ppl who dont play that much. You prepare for a fight, take the op but then get overrun and you all die cause you dont play that much, you havent got the perfect setups and players and weapons. And now you lost half of your rare guns. Without a chance to get em back quick. And dont fucking tell me "Bleh, small clans just shouldnt participate in OPfights". Theres still ppl who play just for fun. ;)
I totally agree, the sort of attitude some people have when it
comes to OP ownership is just horrible. Some people will lose
forever and when they cant take it they just log off and ninja
hack it when no one is online. Something needs to be done to fix
this, imo location on citycom (with hacking restriction of some sort
or another) is a very good way. In the old days when we had
location on citycom clanwars wasnt just about gathering all your
people and going to a place no-one really cares about and battle
it out. It was also the small skirmishes out in leveling areas and
whatnot and to me those where the most fun, both when I was
the agressor and the victim. That made people pick their
enemies, you didnt want to be at war with the biggest clan
because then they would own your ass all over the map. Some
clans with more honor than others made agreements to spare
people with rank below /30 etc, or agreements over certain areas.
So, yet another time, yet another reason; put runner location back
on the citycom! (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75168&highlight=hacking) Look at the poll KK, people wants this, in some way
or another.
dunno if its still the same shit that it used to be, but some clans belive they have a god given right to own a outpost.
so if your clan take it, dont matter how long it takes the enemy will get it back, even if it means ninja hacking.
ok i was part of the clan that lost the fite to ZERG and when we went for the first 3 fites we had severly less numbers than they did yet we kept going back even when they did drop turrets in the middle of the fite and our players getting fed up with keep dying when they had at least 4-5 players more than us and definately more ppu's.
We did not wait for them to log off infact we didn't even check the citycom we regrouped at a op waited for a couple more members to join us who were just logging on to come over to even up the numbers.
If u guys hack a op win a battle and then log off straight after that is not the clan who is trying to get their op backs fault everyone knows people come back for there core ops no matter what and thats what we did it was a break of about 15 mins till we regrouped and re-attacked it was not like we were watching the citycom for everyone to log off as eric is immplying
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
Except a very big TG Clan, I never fought a clan here who is terrorhacking, or zerging.
you allready explained it yourself, theres only one clan on pluto which uses such lameness, think you should find fair fights and sportsmanship with all other clans, even the other TG clans are more or less fair
Eric Cobalt
16-11-03, 14:08
Originally posted by Candaman
ok i was part of the clan that lost the fite to ZERG and when we went for the first 3 fites we had severly less numbers than they did yet we kept going back even when they did drop turrets in the middle of the fite and our players getting fed up with keep dying when they had at least 4-5 players more than us and definately more ppu's.
sorry, thats a lie. we didnt dropped turrets during the fight. We used turrets at hawkins, these turrets were the only we got on the whole evening.we got 12 ppl, u got 10 or 11.. but this isnt a thread to discuss why u lost all these fights against us.
Originally posted by Candaman
If u guys hack a op win a battle and then log off straight after that is not the clan who is trying to get their op backs fault everyone knows people come back for there core ops no matter what and thats what we did it was a break of about 15 mins till we regrouped and re-attacked it was not like we were watching the citycom for everyone to log off as eric is immplying
We hacked an op, won 2 battle, and no new attack waves arrived. after we left hawkins, a well known stealth spy from spirit wrecked the turrets to let dark hack the op. We logged after we hacked 3 ops and defeated everything u send against us. I talked u blazer12 and made the offer to continue the fights tomorrow and stop hacking for today. I thought he agreed. But u returned again and lost again o_O
After that, we left the op. Our goal was to make sure who is the strongest. After 5 battles at different ops we know it. Thats my statement to the fights yesterday.. and I hope this is the last post bout it. I repeat:
this isnt a thread to discuss why u lost all these fights against us.
@ Topicstarter... Excellent Thread.
Yeah this does need discussion there should be a penalty to the defeated clan, which brings me back to believing that OP fights should be an organised Event with referees and stuff. Only way to stop the arguments and settle the outcome fairly.
Well maybe next time u should speak to someone higher rank in the clan than blazer and we would be able to give u a proper answer.
And we had two tanks, 1 ppu, 2 spys that was at hawkins
Eric Cobalt
16-11-03, 14:28
Originally posted by Candaman
And we had two tanks, 1 ppu, 2 spys that was at hawkins
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
this isnt a thread to discuss why u lost all these fights against us.
ok so what u saying is when u have a lot of guys online and u outnumber the enemy a lot u take the op and they fight back u win
BUT when u have some log and no longer outnumber the enemy they cannot have another try for a fmore fair fight ?
i dont mind a fight but u only fighting when outnumbering sounds bad
Eric Cobalt
16-11-03, 15:34
Originally posted by solling
ok so what u saying is when u have a lot of guys online and u outnumber the enemy a lot u take the op and they fight back u win
BUT when u have some log and no longer outnumber the enemy they cannot have another try for a fmore fair fight ?
i dont mind a fight but u only fighting when outnumbering sounds bad
no, we dont only fight when we outnumber the enemy. Its hard to say befor an op fight who got more ppl online. Some of us log on with 2 pcs , but only 1 player. some are afk, some are active in teamspeak/irc and go online if an op gets hacked. we checked darks online activity and saw 9 ppl online. after they lost the first fight, we saw 14 ppl online, and the numbers we saw at hawkins/drakkan/rockshore were fair. Killing a few ppl with masses is absolut boring o_O
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
Killing a few ppl with masses is absolut boring o_O
I couldnt agree more, beating people due to vastly superior
numbers means absolutely nothing. Beating some through skill or
tactics is what counts and what is fun.
thats neocron but stop whining n1ne u told me and some friends how fair and different pluto is(no zergs no terrorhackers ...)
well and now? hum ,... nearly the same like on jupiter....with one difference to jupiter on jupiter you got less terrorhacks an no chances to zerg a clan more then one time ...
samethingy with beltdrop u told me nahhh we dont need beltdrop on pluto everyone is fair .....sure funy thingy now u`re crying 4 beltdrops to stop the evil never ending zergfights.
mfg
wtf is a zerg, or a terrorhack? why cant people use small words O_o
anyway, simple solution, when you lose an Op, you cant hack that op back for 48 hours, gives the clan that hacked it a chance to keep the Op, except from other clans who might decide to attack and take that Op.
Good idea Lexx, lets reward the ninja hackers :p
Just leave it how it is, holding an OP is a 24 hour responsibility. You gotta be prepared to defend 5 times in a row or when you only have 1 member on. It might not be fair but its the way it is.
Originally posted by Nexxy
Good idea Lexx, lets reward the ninja hackers :p
not really, cause another clan could just take it from the ninja hackers straight away, but the ninja's couldnt get it back for 48 hours, but as soon as the OP has been hacked again, its open season for all except the losin clan, so the initial losin clan could just take it back again, but as soon as you lose that Op, you lost it for 48 hours, givin incentive to a) take em, and b) keep em ;)
MjukisDjur
16-11-03, 19:54
I think you guys should thank us for the big fat action. We got smacked over and over and we still kept the mood up and tried again. It wasn't like we called for more and more and more reinforcements like most clans do. Atleast not when I left.
Todays RL news:
My cat became champion yesterday and was best in show today. Yey :)
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
We hacked an op, won 2 battle, and no new attack waves arrived. after we left hawkins, a well known stealth spy from spirit wrecked the turrets to let dark hack the op. That would be me :D
And just to correct a small point ...
I happened to be doing my normal routine of wandering around enemy held OPs looking for enemies to kill.
Started off with the SxR block to the south.
Couldn't find anyone, so headed for the BRTF held OPs further north, co-incidentally passing through Hawkings zone.
I happened to get there just in time to see your Rhino arrive, (which shot at me first, incidentally) so stuck around for some fun. ;)
(Yes - it was just me sniping you for the first half hour)
Eventually some Dark arrived, but they were outnumbered so I decided to stay and continue killing.
The fights eventually moved off to a couple of the north shore OPs, and I followed.
I don't really care about the outposts themselves - I'm in it for the bodycount.
Result for the night ...
Kurai : 23
Zerg: 2
A good night's work :D
Eric Cobalt
16-11-03, 21:21
Originally posted by kurai
Kurai : 23
Zerg: 2
A good night's work :D
23? :wtf: ;) :lol: not really, kurai.. think about how much times the ppl u killed and u had to backpack :D I dont really understand u. That u help DarK during fights is ur own decision. What I dont understand is the fact that u also help FF (u remember, we met at tezla, u flew with 4 poisons from me..), I read some posts of u and thought u dont really like them..
Sayoko: We didnt got zerged. Theres only 1 clan really using terrorhacking, and the fights were all fun, I still think pluto ownz Jupiter badly. Just ask the zergs which played on Jupiter and Pluto which server is better o_O
Kurai u should count the people u killed not that u shot at....
Well Pluto was different months ago it just becomes like jupiter or stuff like on uranus:rolleyes:
Anyways fights are fun and i enjoy the fights with equal numbers... i dont care about the OPs on that server :angel:
we came and took back OP's because more people had logged on. we were fighting constantly. your players decided to log, that isnt our problem.
you cannot force a rule such as the one that was siguested because people log at different times. otherwise people would only fight when they they have alot of people online. decideding not to fight when they only have a few online. we decide to fight no matter the numbers so the honerable are punished? lolz
What if you got Defence Points for holding an OP? You get points for holding the OP for a certain amount of time, and you also get points for killing enemies in the OP zone. The more points you have at a particular OP, the more turrets you can place. Then you can also add faction guards, gates etc which would cost so many points. This way if you just keep coming back to the OP then it gets harder and harder.
Originally posted by Scikar
What if you got Defence Points for holding an OP? You get points for holding the OP for a certain amount of time, and you also get points for killing enemies in the OP zone. The more points you have at a particular OP, the more turrets you can place. Then you can also add faction guards, gates etc which would cost so many points. This way if you just keep coming back to the OP then it gets harder and harder.
Very very neat, needs work but neat. After a while you would be
able to place so much guards and turrets and weird shit that it
would be more or less imposible to take even without players
defending. Of course these guards and turrets would have to
deteriorate over time.
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
23? :wtf: ;) :lol: not really, kurai.. think about how much times the ppl u killed and u had to backpack :D I dont really understand u. That u help DarK during fights is ur own decision. What I dont understand is the fact that u also help FF (u remember, we met at tezla, u flew with 4 poisons from me..), I read some posts of u and thought u dont really like them.. Since I work practically 99% of the time completely without PPU support and I am killing people *with* PPU support that's not such a great mystery. To me a kill, is a kill, is a kill, regardless of wether they get rezzed or not ;)
I do my picking of enemies along faction lines ... they need to be clanned, and of a respectable rank (unless it's in an OP war situation, in that case I ignore the rank - if they show up, they are a valid target)
My feelings about FF are largely irrelevant - if I arrive at a zone and find they are already mass-rushing, then I won't take part, but if I am there first, and they happen along later, I will just carry on doing my thing regardless.
Originally posted by XaNToR
Kurai u should count the people u killed not that u shot at.... That *is* kills, not shots. :D
I got through somewhere around 120 boxes of ammo last night, so there's an awful lot of "assists" to add to that total too, if you want to ;)
Eric Cobalt
17-11-03, 00:45
Originally posted by Scikar
What if you got Defence Points for holding an OP? You get points for holding the OP for a certain amount of time, and you also get points for killing enemies in the OP zone. The more points you have at a particular OP, the more turrets you can place. Then you can also add faction guards, gates etc which would cost so many points. This way if you just keep coming back to the OP then it gets harder and harder.
omg I love this Idea...
Originally posted by Sayoko
thats neocron but stop whining n1ne u told me and some friends how fair and different pluto is(no zergs no terrorhackers ...)
well and now? hum ,... nearly the same like on jupiter....with one difference to jupiter on jupiter you got less terrorhacks an no chances to zerg a clan more then one time ...
samethingy with beltdrop u told me nahhh we dont need beltdrop on pluto everyone is fair .....sure funy thingy now u`re crying 4 beltdrops to stop the evil never ending zergfights.
mfg
agree...one word. Whin0r :p he will never stop crying if things don't work as he wants to....:D should i speak more english? Hm :rolleyes:
Eric Cobalt
17-11-03, 01:31
Würden sich die Jupitaner, die keine Ahnung von Pluto haben, bitte aus dem Thread raushalten? Danke.. Typen wie Coma sollen bitte beim german board bleiben, der Schaden da ist schon gross genug.
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
Würden sich die Jupitaner, die keine Ahnung von Pluto haben, bitte aus dem Thread raushalten? Danke.. Typen wie Coma sollen bitte beim german board bleiben, der Schaden da ist schon gross genug.
pwned :lol: :lol:
and yea i agree... im gettin sick of it too
i love scikars idea :)
i dunno if it would be possible to code tho o.O
.cy
/e ach coma.. hab grad deinen thread im german forum gelesen..
du hast null ahnung was auf pluto los ist .. also STFU
kthxbye
n1n3 it would have been easier to say "fk off back to the german forum where you all talk bullshit anyway"
but then i suppose you have manners unlike me :)
Right of way goes to the guys with the biggest guns, the most persistence, or the political savvy to arrange alliances/pacts and carve up the landscape. There's no reason this should change. If the game intended static op holdings, there would be a 40-clan limit on the servers.
Originally posted by Scikar
What if you got Defence Points for holding an OP? You get points for holding the OP for a certain amount of time, and you also get points for killing enemies in the OP zone. The more points you have at a particular OP, the more turrets you can place. Then you can also add faction guards, gates etc which would cost so many points. This way if you just keep coming back to the OP then it gets harder and harder.
Omg .. excellent idea!! Better then any beltdrop or any locked GR imho.
But on the other hand, wouldnt it increase the motivation to ninjahack? Because if the OP doesnt change the owner in lets say 24 hours it would be impossible to take over normally?
Shadow Dancer
17-11-03, 02:47
Points for killing enemies at your op? God, that's an AWESOME idea.
That could lead to all sorts of fun.
omg
Scikar>sex
Originally posted by Chaplin
Omg .. excellent idea!! Better then any beltdrop or any locked GR imho.
But on the other hand, wouldnt it increase the motivation to ninjahack? Because if the OP doesnt change the owner in lets say 24 hours it would be impossible to take over normally?
The defence would have to deteriorate over time.
People say this thread is about encouraging PvP then agree the best idea is one that limits you to x number of fights and rewards people who wait till they have overwhelming odds to attack and ensure the op is take 1st time. Reward the big clans etc who can swap an OP with sheer numbers to guarantee a win. In addition it encourages AI to win your battles for you - MORE turrets, MORE AI controlled guards. WOOT.
The worst part of PvP in this day is dependance on Turrets. If you want to PvP fight players - you want to fight the games AI fight mobs - not turrets. Turrets take the Ps out of PvP.
Just my thoughts.
Eric Cobalt
17-11-03, 06:55
Originally posted by Rade
The defence would have to deteriorate over time.
yop, tru. And what if somebody starts his second account in a enemy faction to "lvl" with is his clanm8s in the warzone?
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
yop, tru. And what if somebody starts his second account in a enemy faction to "lvl" with is his clanm8s in the warzone?
Or how about this: Somebody starts up a second account to spy and LOOT enemy clan? w00t thats a brilliant idea! I must do that .. no wait someone already did it :rolleyes:
Originally posted by kurai
That would be me :D
And just to correct a small point ...
I happened to be doing my normal routine of wandering around enemy held OPs looking for enemies to kill.
hawr hawr how can you not love dedication like this?
always fun to see kurai in a zone :D
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
yop, tru. And what if somebody starts his second account in a enemy faction to "lvl" with is his clanm8s in the warzone?
The points should be awarded when the char releases and for
chars without SI and the point would be dependant on the chars
leve, so it would be a hassle to do it but yes, it could be a
problem. Not so much on pluto but maybe on the multichar
servers.
[TgR]KILLER
17-11-03, 12:49
thought of this for a while to there must be some way to limit the ammount of times an OP gets hacked.. mayby force the clan u are fighting to hack an OP back within 30 min or an hour or else they lose it for a day or something.. so if u can defend it for 30 min / a day the Op is yours..
Originally posted by Scikar
What if you got Defence Points for holding an OP? You get points for holding the OP for a certain amount of time, and you also get points for killing enemies in the OP zone. The more points you have at a particular OP, the more turrets you can place. Then you can also add faction guards, gates etc which would cost so many points. This way if you just keep coming back to the OP then it gets harder and harder.
Best
Idea
Ever
You should give it its own thread, alot of people will miss out on it if it stays here. With a few tweaks that would be great, like people said the alt problem would need to be sorted.
problem comes when a clan hold a op for a long time it becomes like a fortress more turrets than u can count and guards aswell.
There could still be limits i guess, to stop people going OTT. I dont like the idea of guards though, would get in the way when fighting. Turrets and OP doors would be cool. And different types of OP doors and stuff....
Originally posted by Candaman
problem comes when a clan hold a op for a long time it becomes like a fortress more turrets than u can count and guards aswell.
And so it should be. If a clan has held an OP for the last three months, you tend to think of it as that clan's OP. Think of it as their HQ, you'd expect good defences there. Imagine the size of the fight it would be when you get 5 clans all working together to break down the defences, imagine being sat inside the OP in a bunch of gat turrets, stun turrets, artillery turrets, and seeing hordes of enemies outside like Lord of the Rings or something. OK so maybe FPS would be a bit low but everyone will use AoE anyway so who cares? :p
Sadie Atkins
17-11-03, 15:31
Honestly, clans that occupy an outpost should spend most of their time defending that outpost. Outposts are meant to bring life into Neocron's PvP elements. Saying "we beat you, the op belongs to us"... well that does not meet the original purpose of outposts. I mean what do you think: "ah, nice we hacked that thingie, it's ours now, let's go find some rare parts or go to mc5...". I say no! It should be EITHER PvP / owning outposts OR mc5 / rare hunting or whatever else you might want op's give too much an advantage to rectify having both. Holding an outpost should become much more difficult in my eyes, beltdrop on Jupiter unfortunately acts very contraproductive to this.
There are several extremely negative results to this simplicity in op fights: outposts are mainly occupied by 2-3 factions on jupiter, whereas pluto's map looks totally different atm, next thing as mentioned here before: fights lose lots of potential with activated beltdrop due to the fact that no one really dares to carry all required equipment, except for big clans / factions.
Even now, there's almost no dynamic on jupiter's op situation just because no one dares attacking the ruling clans and factions (and right now, they are the ones who have op's and everything else one needs (rares, mc5 imps etc...), this fact, amongst others, is responsible for the extreme imbalance between Neocron's factions (at least on Jupiter that is...), which I consider annoyingly harmful to the game's atmosphere.
N1n3, you have been posting things like this on the german forum for quite a while, well though I respect you as a player who, in opposite to many others around here, knows a lot about the game an gives subjective feedback (with great ideas on some themes), I cannot agree to postings like this. Try to see the game in whole and then again judge about the situation. I know that some ppl are acting really lame, more than anywhere else that I know of, but if someone attack you op over and over again that means he wants that op and if you are not willing to defend it as often as required, well I'd say you don't deserve that op. It's weird, anyway, you want something to show around like "hey look, my clan holds an op" but you are not willing to fight for it as it is intended to, holding an op for several days/weeks is actually nothing more than a status symbol, therefore it's worthless, it's only purpose is to encourage fighting, next to that little bonusses (which, of course, you don't need 24/7) think about that.
Anyway, I am not actively playing on Pluto, but I hope you'll never get beltdrop in op zones.
Fight for your op's and do it every day, I personally would be glad if I had the opportunity to do that on Jupiter, as well as many other of my buddies there. This kind of fights is part of the game and in my oppinion they are very entertaining and fun.
Eric Cobalt
17-11-03, 16:07
Originally posted by LVirus
Or how about this: Somebody starts up a second account to spy and LOOT enemy clan? w00t thats a brilliant idea! I must do that .. no wait someone already did it :rolleyes:
Impossible, which clan would a) recrute a unknown player and b) give him access to clanapp which c) is filled with useful items? lol, or d) giving him access to teamspeak.. No one is that stupid..
;)
Back to Scikars idea: Maybe the points (or planted turrets/guards/gates) should disappear step by step , and after 1 or 2 days the op is empty.. and the enemy can attack again
/edit: Scikar, u should post this idea in the Brainport, I will link it into my sig..
@Sadi Atkins
What clan can fight for OPs 24/7? If you kill the enemies more than 3 times over several hours and they hack it back when you loged, its just not fair. There are clans that know and respect when they lost an OP and dont hack it back when there is no resistance anymore, but alot dont do that. Thats why the OP-war-system could need some changes.
@eric
Turrets already dissapear after some time, at least alot dissapeared without any message in clanchat already. ;)
there players decided to log not ours. we had gone back tons of times when we were outnumbered and when more people came online they decided to log. i fail to see how that is a fault on our part. but if eric wants to bitch let him bitch, cus it seems thats all people do on these forums anymore.
Cliffraiser
17-11-03, 16:52
Originally posted by Scikar
What if you got Defence Points for holding an OP? You get points for holding the OP for a certain amount of time, and you also get points for killing enemies in the OP zone. The more points you have at a particular OP, the more turrets you can place. Then you can also add faction guards, gates etc which would cost so many points. This way if you just keep coming back to the OP then it gets harder and harder.
kinda like this idea but then different :p
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70976
Now days its just like, if u lose then call in some allies. Lose again call in more and more allies until you win.
Heavyporker
17-11-03, 18:46
I think its rather stupid (well, not stupid, but the inequality is) that huge, vast clans can just swarm an OP again and again for hours on end or just taking the OP without resistance, totally locking out all the smaller clans from even seeing the light of their faction on the worldmap.
Yes, larger clans should have an advantage in OP warfare. But realistically, smaller clans NEED some sort of balance on their end to put them on a footing with another clan.
There needs to be an OP lockout for a short period of a time, say, 6 hours or something once all three layers are breached and held for, say, a hour. Call it a OP mainframe maintenance cycle or something. This would give smaller clans a chance to stand on their own... a chance for them to get some sleep, secure in the fact they got and held an Outpost. I consider this more than fair - hack and hold an outpost for 1 hour, it's secure for the next 6 hours.
SnotNosedBrat
17-11-03, 18:51
Originally posted by Heavyporker
I think its rather stupid (well, not stupid, but the inequality is) that huge, vast clans can just swarm an OP again and again for hours on end or just taking the OP without resistance, totally locking out all the smaller clans from even seeing the light of their faction on the worldmap.
Yes, larger clans should have an advantage in OP warfare. But realistically, smaller clans NEED some sort of balance on their end to put them on a footing with another clan.
There needs to be an OP lockout for a short period of a time, say, 6 hours or something once all three layers are breached and held for, say, a hour. Call it a OP mainframe maintenance cycle or something. This would give smaller clans a chance to stand on their own... a chance for them to get some sleep, secure in the fact they got and held an Outpost. I consider this more than fair - hack and hold an outpost for 1 hour, it's secure for the next 6 hours.
right now the best bet for a smaller clan is to ally with the larger clans, help the larger clans hold their ops and they will usually (at least we do) give/help them take an op of their own. If you can hold an op or two that also attracts people to your clan helping you grow until you can eventually defend your few ops on your own. If not, then you always have your allies.
This thread has gone awry. The initial post is who owns an OP - the answer is noone. They are a medium designed to facilitate PvP - no more no less. They do give bonuses and the like but really that is irrelavant.
What needs changing is players attitudes to OPs and ownership. Too many see it as a colouring in activity, and a way to show how big and hairy your clans balls are. Really the thing that shows this is actions not words or OPs. The fight matters the OP doesnt.
As for repeated fighting over the same op who cares - its the fight that matters. I dont want rules that discourage PvP and OP attacks like 6 hour lock outs etc. As someone posted this rewards Ninja Hackers not fighting clans.
Spirit and SS have had many nights of constant OP attacks and we all had fun, and learned respect for one another. Determination and the will to fight should be rewarded. Lame ass ninja hacks and attacking when opponents have no chance to respond is lame ass and should be the issue that is discouraged and penalised, as is excess turret use that so many incompetant clans seem to be resprting to these days. Is it not telling that a number of Posts in the OP dream team are "me and X number of turrets" - turrets == OP defence for many not Players. Dont encourage that with more turret slots adn Guards.
Spirit
Originally posted by Eric Cobalt
Impossible, which clan would a) recrute a unknown player and b) give him access to clanapp which c) is filled with useful items? lol, or d) giving him access to teamspeak.. No one is that stupid..
;)
And there I was, whining why I cannot connect to voice server .. no wonder they changed passwd :rolleyes:
Seriously, thats kinda ghay tactics if someone ever uses those kind of tactics :angel:
Eric Cobalt
18-11-03, 16:03
Originally posted by LVirus
Seriously, thats kinda ghay tactics if someone ever uses those kind of tactics :angel:
naaa.. If u want to see real ghay tactics then I can paste a console.log link in here from a clan who fights really ghay.. want to see it ? :angel:
Now days its just like, if u lose then call in some allies. Lose again call in more and more allies until you win.
sad but true
and limit a clan to 40 members sure lets make a clan called FFI make us look smaller:rolleyes:
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