View Full Version : Poll: Undo shield on others and rez time nerfs, make damage cause spells to fail.
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 16:59
Idea is what thread title says. If a ppu can't escape fire he can't heal shelter or do anything. If he can, then he can. Makes skill the important factor again.
Same with apus. If they can dodge half decently then they can destroy people. If they can't, then they can't do their 3 times the normal damage without aiming.
Think about it... All monk spells have both High frequency and High impact per use. A holy heal fills an entire health bar in seconds, even underfire. A HL zap does avg 502 damage b4 resists.
EDIT: Poll means PENDING rez time nerfs.
since apus do double the damage of the second most damaging class in damage (The one that can't run with weapons out and aim for shit) and don't have to aim, and can run full speed with their weapons out, and can kill many player types before the other could kill the apu if they were both standing still.... Give them a unique disadvantage.
If you dodge the other persons shots you don't have a problem, and they can run full speed while casting HL. Melee tanks have point click aiming and they have to dodge most shots because they do crap damage and would die long before they killed the other player if they were repeatedly hit.
Apus on the other hand have the same aiming and do insane damage. Capped APU's have 105 frequency on their spells and can kill any non ppu in 6 shots. If they can dodge half decently then they can still attack. (1.75 seconds of dodging per attack)
let me get this straight, u want apus to be unable to fire while theyre getting shot?
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 17:14
Originally posted by Furion
let me get this straight, u want apus to be unable to fire while theyre getting shot?
Yes, WHEN they are hit, (1.75 second window for a hit to cancel an attack)
your kidding right that would kill the apu cause any pe with a lib or any tank with a speedy could assrape any apu or ppu without a sweat
ericdraven
15-11-03, 17:18
You want disadvantages for APUs?
Hmmm... what about low CON and unable to heal themselves nor using stealth or great range, nor using shelters/deflectors?
Shadow Dancer
15-11-03, 17:20
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
BTW capped APU's have 105 frequency on their spells and can kill any player in 6 shots.
BTW CS and LIB rapes APU.
BTW apus die extremely quickly.
BTW no one dodges 100%.
BTW if dodging was so easy to never get hit like you magically believe, then paralyse wouldn't be a problem.
BTW this idea is horrible and I vote no.
As usual people name all the perks of an apu and no downsides. Double damage of tanks without the aim. Yea you're right. Do we have tank defense or health? Nope. Can we get 500% on a TL 3 heal? Nope. Can we stealth when we're near death like PEs and come back and destroy the apu because he can't heal but pe's can? Can we hit a grim chaser's penis from 5 miles away like a spy? Nope. etc..... O_o
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 17:20
Originally posted by Lathuc
your kidding right that would kill the apu cause any pe with a lib or any tank with a speedy could assrape any apu or ppu without a sweat
omg...
A. Apus will always own medium distance combat
B. If you can DODGE SOMEWHAT, which isn't hard to do when you can run FULL SPEED while attacking then you can still attack fine. If anything it would bring their attack power to defense ratio down to near what other classes have.
If you can't dodge and aim, no you don't deserve to kill everyone else in the game just because you are playing a apu. Ive played a apu before I know this wouldn't kill it.
@ Others:
If you are getting hit by all 370 shots per minute of a speed gat then you don't deserve to win pvp just because you chose to play an APU. If you get hit every here and there then it isn't going to kill your attack ability. Think about it.. 105 attack frequency means that for every 1.75 seconds you dodge you get to attack. The attack that kills any non apu in avg 5 hits... They can also run to medium distance all the time and attack from there.
Using my melee tank I could kill CS tanks because they could ALMOST never hit me. They did some, but I had decent defense so a hit here and there didn't end it.
If you're playing an apu and you die to CS or speed gat it means you can't dodge for shit... And I have fought enough apus to know that a good one is unbalanced against a good tank. And as for libby, yeah that would be tougher. So don't fight PE's at point blank. A spy with a disruptor you could kill in a heartbeat if you get close.
An apus defenses aren't a disadvantage when they can kill someone AS quickly as the other person can kill them...
Maybe not tanks but tanks cant aim or run so effectively they can...
Stealthing sucks for everyone...
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
The attack that kills any non apu in avg 5 hits...
If you're playing an apu and you die to CS or speed gat it means you can't dodge for shit... And I have fought enough apus to know that a good one is unbalanced against a good tank. And as for libby, yeah that would be tougher. So don't fight PE's at point blank. A spy with a disruptor you could kill in a heartbeat if you get close.
dude, u obviously have no clue. 5 hits?? lmao, says more about u then it does about APUs.....
and APUs cant die from CS? which is one of the guns with the easiest aim. seriously, if ur a tank which cant hit APUs, and u die in 5 shots, u dont deserve to play a tank....
Heavyporker
15-11-03, 17:35
what... the... fuck?
don't even think about bringing in maths slanted all wrong. That does NOT apply at all. WTF...
This gets an automatic "no and fuck off before I call the mormons and jevocah's witnesses on you"
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 17:40
Originally posted by Furion
dude, u obviously have no clue. 5 hits?? lmao, says more about u then it does about APUs.....
and APUs cant die from CS? which is one of the guns with the easiest aim. seriously, if ur a tank which cant hit APUs, and u die in 5 shots, u dont deserve to play a tank....
... Says the dude that just registered in october to the guy whose been playing since beta...
Yes brainiac HL can kill a tank in 5 hits avg... If you know how pvp damage works they do 502 damage avg b4 resists. If a tank specs specifically for fighting them and caps energy resist and Health thats 5 shots. And that leaves the tank vulnerable to everything else. This has been shown in game many many times.
A CS has the easiest aim? Dude are you fresh off the boat? Cannons have THE WORST aim in the game... everyone knows that...
@ Shadow, If a tank with 595 health can survive off of Medkits and recycle skill, so can a APU with 300 health or whatever you have... TL 3 heal does not affect PVP Im sorry.
Can we get some NON APUS in here plz?
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
... Says the dude that just registered in october to the guy whose been playing since beta...
Yes brainiac HL can kill a tank in 5 hits avg... If you know how pvp damage works they do 502 damage avg b4 resists. If a tank specs specifically for fighting them and caps energy resist and Health thats 5 shots. And that leaves the tank vulnerable to everything else. This has been shown in game many many times.
A CS has the easiest aim? Dude are you fresh off the boat? Cannons have THE WORST aim in the game... everyone knows that...
Can we get some NON APUS in here plz?
oh man, ive played since november last year, all classes. so plz, dont gimme that shit.
this is a crappy idea, face it. theres one "yes" and thats u sir.
and also, i dont play APU :rolleyes:
Im all for a disrupt spell type effect, but it needs work. For
starters i think there should be a chance of a spell failing
depending on how much damage you recieve during the cast
time, and depending on some stat that you can train, like resist
psi for example (altho renamed of course). Then we could work
from there, I think it would add more diversity and fun to the
game, and then certain overpowered aspects of monks wouldnt
be so bad. Of course it would need alot of balancing.
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 17:48
Originally posted by Furion
oh man, ive played since november last year, all classes. so plz, dont gimme that shit.
this is a crappy idea, face it. theres one "yes" and thats u sir.
and also, i dont play APU :rolleyes:
Yet you claim that CS is one of the best aiming guns in the game? And APUS dont kill tanks in 5 shots? Yes its obvious you don't know anything about APUs... I was talking about the other people in here.
That dude QD as a PE who spent forever testing resist setups IN GAME said He died to HL in like 6-7 shots fully buffed and drugged. Spies certainly do no better. And I said non PPU...
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Yet you claim that CS is one of the best aiming guns in the game? And APUS dont kill tanks in 5 shots? Yes its obvious you don't know anything about APUs... I was talking about the other people in here.
haha. APUs can seriously kill u in 5 shots?
my last char was APU, i now play a spy and a PPU, so i guess i got some knowledge afterall :confused:
i didnt wanna say this, but: learn to aim, get some skills.....
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 17:57
You have no clue what your talking about, and btw number of shots (We are talking shots that HIT here not missed shots) has no bearing on aiming skills...
And if you care to put your money where your mouth is come duel me on saturn sometime...
Notice the number of agree voters is going up... Considering that Apus are prolly board trolling to watch for nerfs now and their overpoweredness has been sitting for a while and so many ppl have rolled apus and are bias I would say that the idea isn't as bad as you wish it was.
@ Heavy porker... What are you talking about, how does what I said not apply? Thats the game...
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
You have no clue what your talking about, and btw number of shots (We are talking shots that HIT here not missed shots) has no bearing on aiming skills...
And if you care to put your money where your mouth is come duel me on saturn sometime...
Notice the number of agree voters is going up... Considering that Apus are prolly board trolling to watch for nerfs now and their overpoweredness has been sitting for a while and so many ppl have rolled apus and are bias I would say that the idea isn't as bad as you wish it was.
the numbers of people saying no is going up too, faster then yes.....
and i give up. ye ur right APUS R TEH OWAPOWA! MY TEANK IS SOO WEAKZ0R!!11 NERF NERF
Heavyporker
15-11-03, 18:02
I'd only remove my resistance to this idea if guns and melee stuff got the same feature - if a pistolero or something is getting whooped, then he can't shoot.
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 18:10
Originally posted by Heavyporker
I'd only remove my resistance to this idea if guns and melee stuff got the same feature - if a pistolero or something is getting whooped, then he can't shoot.
Why tho? Melee does like rediculously low damage atm... Pistoleros do less than half damage of apus... Tanks do less than half damage of apus and cant run or aim...
Melee would be exactly the same as APU in this form AS IS. Their low damage means they have to dodge 80% of shots in order to win.
When you look at the fact that an apus defenses to everyone else are the same as everyones defenses to an apu, APU has NO DISADVANTAGES atm.
@ RADE I like your ideas. But remember half of this would be to balance PPU's and there is only a 1.75 second window to do enough damage through his shields to cancel a holy heal.
QuantumDelta
15-11-03, 18:35
I tweaked my setup again.
8 shots, POSSIBLY 10.
Average random damage, on max random damage, still 7.
10 is including a moveon, which I don't actually have head room for.
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 18:39
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I tweaked my setup again.
8 shots, POSSIBLY 10.
Average random damage, on max random damage, still 7.
10 is including a moveon, which I don't actually have head room for.
Question: how many shots does it take you to kill a decent apu? or how much time rather?
And btw is that using psi shield or somehting? If you had 595 health, capped nrg resist, and capped tl 25 shelter wouldnt that still only be 8 shots avg?
595 hlth / .24 unresisted damage = 2479.166 , 2479.166 adjusted hlth / .65 unsheltered dam = 3814.10 adjusted for both , 3814.10 / 502 avg HL dam = aprox 7.5
HL dam and shelter values taken from neocron.ems.ru divided by 3 for pvp adjustment... Although I don't know if its possible to cap HL I never leveled an apu that high.
QuantumDelta
15-11-03, 19:01
To kill the APU... If I had GOD LIKE Aim with liberator, it would be very close... because of Liberator's damage and Rate of Fire it's possible I could kill him first especially if he misses a few shorts... However, it's easier to hit them with BlackSun for less damage and kill them that way.
Still, 99.9% of the time, an APU of my skill level, will beat me, when I'm on my PE.
I'm always generous in estimates of other classes.. and I tend to talk combat not math, though your math looks right...
it includes psi shield, paratemol forte, basic resist 3, shelter, moveon, but I don't currently have moveon in, nor am I likely to have it in until I get an SA...
Heh..
PEs suddenly don't look so overpowered when you look at APU damage...but, this idea isn't really the answer, APU damage can be toned down, and there are a few easy tweaks that can be made to the PPU to make it "more" killable, but I'm still in favour of PPUs being allowed to rezz under fire providing that rezzing under fire is an actual, not otherwise.
All that said... I was at an op fight yesterday on my PPU...and I actually had fun pushing my character to his maximum...
12 minutes and noob buffs is what it took 9 people (5 APUs ffs :p) to kill me, in that time I got a rezz on two people, one instantly died (..she didn't ppu herself, she was a ppu...), the other, an APU, I kept alive for 4 minutes..
So there is a balance issue, but still, it's not like PPUing doesn't require any skill.. :P
MST. Mental Steadiness ie, your ability to concentrate.
MST should have a deciding factor when casting under fire. The higher the MST, the less likely the spell will fail. Simple isnt it.
Shadow Dancer
15-11-03, 20:22
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
That dude QD as a PE who spent forever testing resist setups IN GAME said He died to HL in like 6-7 shots fully buffed and drugged.
And?
Who cares? That's luck. With my CAPPED HL I dueled Rade, ask her how many hits she took. Or he. It was like 7-9. You keep picking the loweest possible number and acts like it happens all the time.
That's like me basing CS damage on all 4 blobs hitting all the time. It's NOT REALISTIC.
Also, why don't you test how fast an apu goes down to EXPLOSIVE lib? Why don't you test how fast an apu can kill a PE both standing still like you said. Seriously, go aheead and TEST it. I guarantee the PE will kill the apu first in that scenario. And the apu can't stealth btw or heal as good as PE.
Originally posted by Rade
Im all for a disrupt spell type effect, but it needs work. For
starters i think there should be a chance of a spell failing
depending on how much damage you recieve during the cast
time,
How much damage you recieve? Right, so ppus will never be disrupted and solo apus will always be disrupted. No thanks. Solo apus aren't even that bad, there's no need to overnerf and fuck them or introduce new rules to screw them. Let's not forget the overpowered aspects of an apu can be easily balanced, unlike a PPU who CANNOT be EASILY balanced.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
... Says the dude that just registered in october to the guy whose been playing since beta...
Yes brainiac HL can kill a tank in 5 hits avg
Not not average. Average would be like 7.
Sometimes it takes 10 sometimes you get lucky and do it in 5.
Hence the term RANDOM damage.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
.
@ Shadow, If a tank with 595 health can survive off of Medkits and recycle skill, so can a APU with 300 health or whatever you have... TL 3 heal does not affect PVP Im sorry.
Can we get some NON APUS in here plz?
TL 3 heal DOES factor into the equation. Not everything is fucking retarded duel style fights. For example a PE can fuck up an apu to half health, stealth away, HEAL really fast, then come back and rape the apu who has healed 5 HP from a medkit.
EVERYTHING about a class factors into it's balance.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
HL dam and shelter values taken from neocron.ems.ru divided by 3 for pvp adjustment... Although I don't know if its possible to cap HL I never leveled an apu that high.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
EDIT: As I said in the other thread, I think an apu is very close to balance when alone and facing a tank or pe. The only "staggering" imbalance I see is apu vs spy. Unless the spy snipes, but if he's in apu range.................stealth is good. :p
Lol this is funny , there gonne nerf the range on the beam spells and this guy wants a apu unable to cast while he is shooting at? That would be cool a lib fires insanely fast that would mean apu wouldnt cast anything at all etc....Try an apu before u bring down these idea's...doenst make sence. Whats next remove runcast from monk?
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
blabla
No.
Originally posted by Oath
No.
:D
lol
Anyways, here's my informative opinion on this matter that has plagued our fair NC long enough.
*ahem*
DAMN j00 MONKZZ TEY ARE OVERPOWERED TEY SHOT ATME WHEN I WUZ 0/2 AND HE WAS CAPPUT BUUUUUT I SHOULD WINZ CUZ I R TANK!@!!!!
I rest my case.
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 23:27
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And?
Not not average. Average would be like 7.
Sometimes it takes 10 sometimes you get lucky and do it in 5.
Hence the term RANDOM damage.
TL 3 heal DOES factor into the equation. Not everything is fucking retarded duel style fights. For example a PE can fuck up an apu to half health, stealth away, HEAL really fast, then come back and rape the apu who has healed 5 HP from a medkit.
EVERYTHING about a class factors into it's balance.
First of all you are wrong. Its 5 AVERAGE for a tank IF THEY ARE MAXED SPECED FOR FIGTHING APU. and 7 AVERAGE FOR A PPU for the same type of setup, not taking into account psi shield. And the tank 5 is from my experience, QD says like around that for a PE and hes played pe forever...
Btw what were you laughing about... I have been told HL is cappable by people I just wasn't counting that for 100% sure because I hadn't capped it myself.
And wtf PE's Yeah a PE's tl 3 heal helps them because they have 35 levels of psi to cap it with and have shelter to lessen damage so that it actually matters... Tanks and spies do not so don't talk as if you should have mid range healing abilities just because one other class does...
btw.. Im saying the defenses are close... anotherwords its not like APU's really have crap defenses in 1v1 when you consider the fact that everyone elses defenses are crap to them. If you are talking about the difficulty of fighting several people alone, well then thats a different matter...
And btw I play all classes and have OP fought with APUs b4 they had rares and thought it was overpowered then...
Anyways You people are drastically overexaggerating the effect this would have on the game. It would be a slight reduction of ROF for Apus. At one point their miscast took longer than the spell normally would itself I don't know if its there at this point because I havent played them in a while but thats not what I am talking about. I mean if you get hit then that spell just stops and you can cast again.
Liquid_Ice
15-11-03, 23:51
I voted no for the simple reason of legs shots.. A good burst to the legs and an APU can no loger dodge like Jackie chan( or however you think they can dodge).. Also for this type of thing to be put on monks only isn't right also.. If this were implemented it should also affect your guns like a recoil.. Not to mention the never missing Ray weapons that would keep the apus in a perminant fizzle.. I must say if your falling over dead from 5 HLs I am sorry for you .. Then again I am super spy supreme and we are in a class all to ourselves..
Get your super spy supreme at NC Taco Bell, run for the boarder !!!!
Spectra260
16-11-03, 00:29
APU's can kill tanks in 5 hits, but tanks can kill an APU in 3 hits... without buffs...
CS is the slowest locking weapon in game, i think pain easers and rifles in general are fast, pistols are probably the fastest though, that would only make sence....but then again this is neocrono_O
EDIT: i still voted no though, because honostly i think its a horrible idea, and would make being an APU/PPU pointless, especially a PPU, since during an OP battle almost everyone shoots at the PPU's....if not them then the APU's...
would you like it for if your a tank, or any other class that shoots in bursts to have your burst stop short if you get shot, or make it so when u get shot u cant shoot for 1.75 seconds? no? because tis lame.
it would kill the game worse than freezers
Shadow Dancer
16-11-03, 00:43
Right Spectra.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
First of all you are wrong. Its 5 AVERAGE for a tank IF THEY ARE MAXED SPECED FOR FIGTHING APU. and 7 AVERAGE FOR A PPU for the same type of setup, not taking into account psi shield. And the tank 5 is from my experience, QD says like around that for a PE and hes played pe forever...
5 for tank is NOT the average. I've played apu since forever. And only sometimes did I kill a tank in 5 hits and I would say "whoa". Sometimes it would take 7-8 hits. QQQQ
Also, QD says like that for a PE? That's BS. I WISH PEs went down in 5 hits. I dueled Kramer, Maximus, and Rade several times. And when I duel I count hits. And I can tell you around 7-8 was the average, not 5.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
And wtf PE's Yeah a PE's tl 3 heal helps them because they have 35 levels of psi to cap it with and have shelter to lessen damage so that it actually matters... Tanks and spies do not so don't talk as if you should have mid range healing abilities just because one other class does...
Pes can TL 3 heal and it helps because they have 35 levels of psi to cap it. Um ok? What's your point? Tanks can use CS because they can put ammo into the gun. So? The point is PEs have a good heal. And I never even said apus should get healing. Spies can cap TL 3 heal, and tanks can get like 500%. So yes they can heal alot better than apu. And why don't you mention the PE or SPY's stealth advantage? hrmmm??
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
btw.. Im saying the defenses are close... anotherwords its not like APU's really have crap defenses in 1v1 when you consider the fact that everyone elses defenses are crap to them.
Because you're incorrectly judge the apu's defense. Your only judging it on one side. You say apu's defense is the same as a tank's defense when fighting that apu. That makes no sense. A tank can take more HLs from an apu that an apu can take. A tank has more health period. That's like me saying pistols do too much damage because explosive lib does alot to me. lol
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
And btw I play all classes and have OP fought with APUs b4 they had rares and thought it was overpowered then...
You fought with apus b4 they had rares? Huh?
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Anyways You people are drastically overexaggerating the effect this would have on the game.
No, you're overexaggerating the ability to dodge. Maybe all the enemies you fight have shitty aim. Also, it's not just about the effect this can have it's also about whether someone thinks apus deserve this in the first place. You have so much trouble against solo apus that you think they deserve this? Perhaps you should look at your skills then........no offense
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
I voted no for the simple reason of legs shots.. A good burst to the legs and an APU can no loger dodge like Jackie chan( or however you think they can dodge).. Also for this type of thing to be put on monks only isn't right also.. If this were implemented it should also affect your guns like a recoil.. Not to mention the never missing Ray weapons that would keep the apus in a perminant fizzle.. I must say if your falling over dead from 5 HLs I am sorry for you ..
EXACTLY!
KRIMINAL99
16-11-03, 00:54
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
I voted no for the simple reason of legs shots.. A good burst to the legs and an APU can no loger dodge like Jackie chan( or however you think they can dodge).. Also for this type of thing to be put on monks only isn't right also.. If this were implemented it should also affect your guns like a recoil.. Not to mention the never missing Ray weapons that would keep the apus in a perminant fizzle.. I must say if your falling over dead from 5 HLs I am sorry for you .. Then again I am super spy supreme and we are in a class all to ourselves..
Get your super spy supreme at NC Taco Bell, run for the boarder !!!!
Id say thats a good point but that would be no different than it is now... if you can shoot their legs out now they are just as dead as if they couldnt shoot back when being hit.
@ spectra 3 hits of what would kill a apu ? You mean 3 bursts? Compare the time on those two...
Anyways I dont know where the heck I got 1.75 seconds because it takes .59 seconds for an apu attack. Notice how all the apus trolling this thread didnt correct me on that...
Anyways thats pratically nothing. Think about it if you could hit with every attack (yes I know you cant but neither can they) Thats a total of 2.95 seconds you would need to dodge to keep from being hit. If you can hit with 50% of your shots then thats still only freaking 5.9 seconds. (in seperate .59 second intervals) Yall are completely overexaggerating what this would do...
Most 1v1 duels last like 20-30 seconds....
Shadow Dancer
16-11-03, 00:55
Nevermind, not even worth it.
KRIMINAL99
16-11-03, 01:16
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Right Spectra.
5 for tank is NOT the average. I've played apu since forever. And only sometimes did I kill a tank in 5 hits and I would say "whoa". Sometimes it would take 7-8 hits. QQQQ
Also, QD says like that for a PE? That's BS. I WISH PEs went down in 5 hits. I dueled Kramer, Maximus, and Rade several times. And when I duel I count hits. And I can tell you around 7-8 was the average, not 5.
Pes can TL 3 heal and it helps because they have 35 levels of psi to cap it. Um ok? What's your point? Tanks can use CS because they can put ammo into the gun. So? The point is PEs have a good heal. And I never even said apus should get healing. Spies can cap TL 3 heal, and tanks can get like 500%. So yes they can heal alot better than apu. And why don't you mention the PE or SPY's stealth advantage? hrmmm??
Because you're incorrectly judge the apu's defense. Your only judging it on one side. You say apu's defense is the same as a tank's defense when fighting that apu. That makes no sense. A tank can take more HLs from an apu that an apu can take. A tank has more health period. That's like me saying pistols do too much damage because explosive lib does alot to me. lol
You fought with apus b4 they had rares? Huh?
No, you're overexaggerating the ability to dodge. Maybe all the enemies you fight have shitty aim. Also, it's not just about the effect this can have it's also about whether someone thinks apus deserve this in the first place. You have so much trouble against solo apus that you think they deserve this? Perhaps you should look at your skills then........no offense
How can you quote what someone said in HUGE type specifically so that you might actually read it before you respond and then completely ignore what is written in the quote box. I SAID 7 for PES. And you have no clue what you are talking about for tanks. Its 5 average for a tank speced specifically against apus. IF you dont have high dam % on your HL then dont compare your attacks to this thread to slant things.
If you say 7 for PEs then how in the heck can you say the same for tanks when PE's have shelter which takes away a percent of the damage AFTER everything else has been accounted for... and PES can have plenty of health and nrg resist as well.
Stealthing is a pain but it can be easily dealt with by anyone with some tactics and isnt a main combat factor its like hacking or something... If someone stealths away from me I use AOE to try and get them then go find a single entry space then AOE spam the entrance while I wait for heal.
Ok guess Ill have to type a little slower just for you... IF an apu can kill a tank almost as fast as the tank can kill the apu when they are BOTH STANDING STILL, then it doesn't matter what APU's or the tank's defense is on paper. Factor into that that the tank cant hit from more than 2 ft away, takes a second or two to aim before he can shoot, and runs slow as shit and APUS defense owns tanks defense.
Yes when I had a APU their rares hadn't been implemented yet, probably because they were never intended to have rares to begin with by the original designers because their damage was so high... But then they put them in.
My assesment of APU dodging comes from when I play them not the ones I fight.
Shadow Dancer
16-11-03, 01:26
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
How can you quote what someone said in HUGE type specifically so that you might actually read it before you respond and then completely ignore what is written in the quote box. I SAID 7 for PES.
In your other posts, but in your last one you said "5 average for a tank, and that QD guy said around the same for a PE"
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
IF you dont have high dam % on your HL then dont compare your attacks to this thread to slant things.
You're right sorry. I'll try to get higher than 648% next time. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
If you say 7 for PEs then how in the heck can you say the same for tanks when PE's have shelter which takes away a percent of the damage AFTER everything else has been accounted for...
I didn't say they have the same AVG. I'm saying that 5 is not the avg for a tank, and 7-9(big margin) is the avg for a PE. I've never seen a tank take 9 though from a capped HL.......
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Stealthing is a pain but it can be easily dealt with by anyone with some tactics and isnt a main combat factor its like hacking or something... If someone stealths away from me I use AOE to try and get them then go find a single entry space then AOE spam the entrance while I wait for heal.
That's nice. I'm simply stating that you are ignoring the other classes' advantages as well as the apu's disadvantages.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Ok guess Ill have to type a little slower just for you.
That's so fucking immature, that's why I shouldn't even waste time with you. You claim I troll yet all your posts are filled with insults like this.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Ok guess Ill have to type a little slower just for you... IF an apu can kill a tank almost as fast as the tank can kill the apu when they are BOTH STANDING STILL, then it doesn't matter what APU's or the tank's defense is on paper.
This just shows that you didn't understand what I said. And you say type slow for me. :rolleyes:
I said you're incorrectly judging the apu's defense. You're comparing the amount of CS bursts an apu takes to the amount of HL a tank takes. You should be comparing the amount of CS bursts a tank takes to what an apu can take, and the amount of HLs a tank can take as well as the amount an apu can take.
I'm saying their are other factors to defense. Not just fuckin duel style fights.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Factor into that that the tank cant hit from more than 2 ft away, takes a second or two to aim before he can shoot, and runs slow as shit
He can't hit from 2 ft and runs "slow as shit"? Yea alrighty then. I'm not even gonna bother with your obvious exaggeration.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Yes when I had a APU their rares hadn't been implemented yet, probably because they were never intended to have rares to begin with by the original designers because their damage was so high... But then they put them in.
Oh you mean when the damage cap was 378% for monks? And you're saying a 378% energy beam apu was still overpowered?
Oh my lord.
:rolleyes:
Remember Shadow, just say
Originally posted by Oath
No.
QuantumDelta
16-11-03, 01:55
5 depends on max damage, it's happened to me a few times.
But you know what I'm like with random damage Arc :p
6-7 is the average, 8 or more is lucky.
So if you are lucky, and buffed as a PE, and meet a APU who is weilding HL and has good aim, you have 4.57 seconds in which to kill him, "if you're lucky." or longer if he misses.
Ahem. :rolleyes:
Ya know, the more I do the math the more I think all the APUs in NC are shit o_O
Shadow Dancer
16-11-03, 06:31
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Ya know, the more I do the math the more I think all the APUs in NC are shit o_O
Because the math doesn't match the reality.
The math is based on the apu never missing and hitting asap after each shot. In other words unrealistic godly aim. How often does that happen? Apus aren't mobs. :p
Didn't you say with godly aim you could tear an apu apart with the liberator?
The explosive lib hurts me bad, but the reason it doesn't bother me TOO much is because the enemy misses sometimes, because I move fast, etc....
Isn't it "technically" possible for a PPU to never die if he doesn't make a mistake? Anti-shelter and co seem so ineffective against the best PPUs sometimes, unless i'm determined and they MESS up.
Let's be real. :p
EDIT: Stupid spelling errors. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
So if you are lucky, and buffed as a PE, and meet a APU who is weilding HL and has good aim, you have 4.57 seconds in which to kill him, "if you're lucky." or longer if he misses.
Ahem. :rolleyes:
Ya know, the more I do the math the more I think all the APUs in NC are shit o_O
Ive been brying bo say bhab for a long bime now, bub for some
reason mosb APU monks have an aim far inferior bo mosb Banks
or PEs. On bhe rare occabion bhab I meeb an APU which acbually
has a really good aim ibs over fast and in a humiliabing fashion.
Ib feels a libble unfair acbually. Maybe going back bo bhe old
damage cap for all psi spells would be a sbep in bhe righb
direcbion?
KRIMINAL99
16-11-03, 17:44
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
In your other posts, but in your last one you said "5 average for a tank, and that QD guy said around the same for a PE"
I didn't say they have the same AVG. I'm saying that 5 is not the avg for a tank, and 7-9(big margin) is the avg for a PE. I've never seen a tank take 9 though from a capped HL.......
That's nice. I'm simply stating that you are ignoring the other classes' advantages as well as the apu's disadvantages.
That's so fucking immature, that's why I shouldn't even waste time with you. You claim I troll yet all your posts are filled with insults like this.
I said you're incorrectly judging the apu's defense. You're comparing the amount of CS bursts an apu takes to the amount of HL a tank takes. You should be comparing the amount of CS bursts a tank takes to what an apu can take, and the amount of HLs a tank can take as well as the amount an apu can take.
I'm saying their are other factors to defense. Not just fuckin duel style fights.
He can't hit from 2 ft and runs "slow as shit"? Yea alrighty then. I'm not even gonna bother with your obvious exaggeration.
Oh you mean when the damage cap was 378% for monks? And you're saying a 378% energy beam apu was still overpowered?
I said qd said about 7 for PE thats what it meant when right before what you quoted it says 5 for tank and 7 for PE..
And yes the math fits the reality... just not your reality.
5 is the MAX AVG for a tank... anotherwords if a tank is specifically specced to fight apus then its 5, otherwise 4..
Don't take a holier than thou attitude while you insult other people with all your posts and whats worse is you come into a thread like this, don't even read what anyone has written and start spamming with flamebait, made up bs and trying to change what people have said so that it doesn't make sense.
Now.. the problem here that you are having, is that you don't know how to SEPERATE 2 different factors and look at them seperately. Just because an apu can't take much punishment, and can be sniped easily, can't heal easily, whatever DOES NOT give the APU the right to be overpowered in 1v1 combat. That is somehting that needs to be dealt with seperately.
I am not an advocate of "dueling". Up until recently I was an rpker, and the reason I am talking about up close combat is because that is what 90% of combat in neocron is. If your far away from someone and don't manage to snipe the to death really fast they usually heal and run to in your face within 30 seconds.
And the reason Im talking about 1v1 combat, when maybe a apu is totally fucked in 2v1, is because again that is a seperate issue and has less importance than 1v1. No you shouldn't have to have 2 people fighting you just for it to be a fair fight... unless its because of your skill. After APU's were fixed then maybe other things about them should be looked at.
And about the tank that is in comparison to the other classes. In comparison they actually do run slow as shit and cant aim well.
Yes I had a pure apu back in the day... He still slaughtered people.. APU spells have been boosted several times in several ways when they didnt need to be or no longer need to be...
For example at one point their damage was raised because they could not be modded. Then their max damage % was raised, then rares came, then mods for them came too.
HL now does like from 2-2.5 times as much damage/sec as the other classes rares... And it doesnt take aiming. So if an APU's and other classes defenses relative to each other are almost the same YEAH AN APU IS OVERPOWERED.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.