View Full Version : So what did I miss???
Okay, the forum tells me it has been 420 days since I was last logged in... hehe. So its been a while.
I have sorta been keeping up with things, and I am looking forward to seeing what has changed.
One thing I havent kept up on is construction- have there been any new advances in terms of slots/slot chances in the past year?
Thanks in advance...
Strych9
previously Strych9/Pikachoad of Madji/Legion/AoE
Pure Construction PPU back when being a pure PPU sucked. :)
I dont know why, but for some reason your name is really familiar
LOL
I was in Beta, and then in retail from when it started. If you spent ANY time in the forums, then you may remember me. My previous name in the forums was Pikachoad.
I was real active, and was responsible... along with a Spy whose name escapes me... of doing the initial testing on construction and the roles that Int, Dex, and Const play in build quality and slot chances. Our work prompted Thanatos to actually confirm our findings.
Of course, Reef Smoker and his gang helped a lot with behind the scenes info. :)
I was also one of the only pure PPUs back when everyone else was a hybrid. It was like me, Carinth, and forgetmyname (I think that was his name, I forget) and maybe a few others.
I was always in Plaza 1 on Pluto constructing too.
So anyway, thats my story.
You no longer have to drag the parts into the processor for each cst or res job. :cool:
Welcome back Strych9......
And slots still suck, I think it's harder than ever to get a multi-slotted weapon these days......
Slot chances are much much worse than they were about four months ago, it is really hard to get slots. I have 220 constr skill (that is with bonus) and out of 20 Lighting Beams one had two slots and the others had nil - this as an example
On the lighter side, you can now get the Constructor Machina glove which gives you plus 15 towards construct, something to strive for as a constructor
QuantumDelta
14-11-03, 08:08
Enough's changed to make you need to nearly totally relearn everything :p
You cant use slotenhancers on rares anymore. Also i remember slotenhancers bein storebaught aswell. Well now they are rare drop. Course that was probably only in beta.
You will be suprised to see how many "blue monks" aka PPU's with monk powerarmors runs around .. and next to them runs orange/red monks with APU's powerarmors.
This is .. Monk-a-cron
Oh and forget about CST with your monk .. I think your the only one :D
MjukisDjur
14-11-03, 11:04
Originally posted by NeoChick
Slot chances are much much worse than they were about four months ago, it is really hard to get slots. I have 220 constr skill (that is with bonus) and out of 20 Lighting Beams one had two slots and the others had nil - this as an example
On the lighter side, you can now get the Constructor Machina glove which gives you plus 15 towards construct, something to strive for as a constructor
Skill does not really matter apparantly. Cap dex and int and use any + chip you got instead. Seems to help alot. Always get slots on the rares I have got built for me :)
But im no constructor so check Eric Dravens posts instead.
welcome back Strych9 your post where always very good.... I still see your monk run around. Think its a ppu/cst monk these days...
Cst work just as before... ie once you cap the quality on items its random... and higher tl = less slots...
robdekoning
14-11-03, 13:23
welcome back, think ive seen u before yes, you've missed alot of sexing.
Hey Deac, wattup
Originally posted by Strych9
I was real active, and was responsible... along with a Spy whose name escapes me... of doing the initial testing on construction and the roles that Int, Dex, and Const play in build quality and slot chances. Our work prompted Thanatos to actually confirm our findings.
It was Alexandros and yourself that figured it out.
Lo Pikachoad, I remember you and Tony Soprano used to boffle about constructing stats in plaza 1 on pluto all the time, I didnt care though you built me some nice guns :)
One thisg thats changed is KK released a skill guide you might want to see if all those calculations were right.
Originally posted by Strych9
Okay, the forum tells me it has been 420 days since I was last logged in... hehe. So its been a while.
I have sorta been keeping up with things, and I am looking forward to seeing what has changed.
One thing I havent kept up on is construction- have there been any new advances in terms of slots/slot chances in the past year?
Thanks in advance...
Strych9
previously Strych9/Pikachoad of Madji/Legion/AoE
Pure Construction PPU back when being a pure PPU sucked. :)
Hiya m8 - hows JG ?
Originally posted by Elric
It was Alexandros and yourself that figured it out. Indeed, thanks Elric.
When I was last active, you still couldnt use SEs on rares, and you couldnt buy them any more either. However, slots themselves were pretty easy to comeby I would say overall.
And yeah- I know not to be a monk constructor this time. Learned that the hard way before. ;)
I would like to be a pure PPU again, but I know just from reading what has been going on, that no longer has the same appeal as it had before.
And for the record, if you see Strych9 running around on Pluto (my original monk) its not me. Someone else runs that character now. I would HOPE that they maxed Int by now... o_O
Yay WB S9 :)
Oh yeh an if you see Berzerker running around on Saturn. He is an inposter.
A coming back thread, j()() made nid's day :D
N
P.S. That doesn't mean it's ok to spam in the Test Server forum.
P.P.S Hats suck.
hats dont suck!
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
A coming back thread, j()() made nid's day :D [/B]The 'choad has a page all to himself in my respect book - it's not just a "coming back thread".
N
P.S. Yes they do.
He built me a sweeet 4 slot Pocketblizzard and helped alot of noobs understand the subtlity of construction, but once he got going on the maths of it my brain function warning light turned on :wtf:
Thanks for the kind words Nid. :)
LOL @ El_MUERkO... yeah, I had some math intensive posts here.
I would love to see an old item that I had built back in the day. I would be stunned if any were still around though.
Now, I am torn between a tradeskillin' Spy or a Melee Tank (yes, as evidence by my previous pure ppu constructor monk, I am a glutton for punishment). :cool:
Go melee tank and just have fun for a while before you get burdened with constructing, hitting things with a big bat is quiet enjoyable.
I dont have the pocketblizzard any more someone got it from my belt at Tescom many moons ago, DAMN YOU NEGITIVE SOULLIGHT!!
go melee tank they are loads of fun, and theres a few of them about(check out the ND tank force on saturn, mayhem mike and Pub King to name but 2 of the melee user tanks about, oh and my other tanks as well)
Heavyporker
14-11-03, 17:42
You will want to be on Pluto, matey.
And PPU effects the RoF on ppu spells, so you wouldn't be *that* gimped.
And testserver patch notes say they will up melee damage, so melee gentank or PEs would be pretty viable.
That means, if you want self-inflicted punishment, become a kamikaze-chipped pistol spy. Pure lowtech? :p
QuantumDelta
14-11-03, 17:45
Originally posted by Heavyporker
And testserver patch notes say they will up melee damage, so melee gentank or PEs would be pretty viable.
You say things...
Do you ever check things before you say them?
Melee, is still, quite soundly
Useless.
Heavyporker
14-11-03, 17:53
wow quantumdelta... you usually blind yourself to modifers before you go and spew things?
and I've seen melee tanks in action. they can be pretty damn effective in their element. I think in your cavernous shadowy mind (mainly occupied by ego, but still, some respectable space left for higher brain functions), PvP consists of being out in the grasslands, no hills or trees, people just running straight at each other with long range weapons.
What I want to see is a meleeist square off with a pistolero in a room, say, the size of a level 1 apt. Still plenty of room for dueling. Let's see if melee is so gimped there.
Melee's already quite good for leveling. All it needs is a little boost to bring the PvP aspect more in line with other classes/skills.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
You say things...
Do you ever check things before you say them?
Melee, is still, quite soundly
Useless.
Hey, it was still boosted :p
At any rate, ya, all I can say is that slots are near impossible to get more than 3 on.
Example :
Out of 50 A&W Rapid Fire SMG224's I recieved 1 3 slotter, 14 2 slotters, 21 1 slotters, 14 0 slotters. Im TRYING to get a 5 slotter.
Out of 50 Ryker Napalm Plasma Pistols, Ive recieved 1 3 slotter, 12 2 slotters, 20 1 slotters, 17 0 slotters.
Out of 50 Tangent Automatic Pistols, I recieved 1 2 slotter, 27 1 slotters, 22 0 slotters
Out of 50 Blacksun Ray Pistols. 2 2 slotters, 12 1 slotters, 36 0 slotters
Out of 50 of the best Rocket Pistol, 1 3 slotter, 4 2 slotters, 7 1 slotters, 28 0 slotters
Out of 50 Tangetn Gatling Pistols, 1 2 slotter, 3 1 slotters, 46 0 slotters.
Now as you can see, 3 slot Non Rare Weapons are EXTREMLY hard to get it seems.
Ill tell you this..... 5 slot rare weapons on saturn are gold mines.
QuantumDelta
14-11-03, 17:56
Originally posted by Heavyporker
wow quantumdelta... you usually blind yourself to modifers before you go and spew things?
and I've seen melee tanks in action. they can be pretty damn effective in their element. I think in your cavernous shadowy mind (mainly occupied by ego, but still, some respectable space left for higher brain functions), PvP consists of being out in the grasslands, no hills or trees, people just running straight at each other with long range weapons.
What I want to see is a meleeist square off with a pistolero in a room, say, the size of a level 1 apt. Still plenty of room for dueling. Let's see if melee is so gimped there.
Melee's already quite good for leveling. All it needs is a little boost to bring the PvP aspect more in line with other classes/skills.
If this room was devoid of most object, the Tank still couldn't hit me more often than not.
Even if it could, I can out heal (ON MY PE) most of the melee weapons when S/Ded.
Sorry I cant get in game yet to check- but what is the activity like on Saturn/Pluto? If I go Pluto it will be the Spy, as that to me allows for more variations in gameplay.
Sorry to hear about the slots... hehe. As long as people are realistic in their slot expectations, its never a problem. ;)
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
You say things...
Do you ever check things before you say them?
Melee, is still, quite soundly
Useless.
there not useless, but are vastly underpowered against "good" buffed Pes and PPUs.
1v1 against most tanks spys apus i can take down with my melee tank.
PEs are tougher, like say divides PE on saturn who is good PE.
your avarage over inflated ego PE who think there good without proof go down easy and i just laugh at them.
a melee against a ppu buffed runner has zero chance though end of story.
still they aint totally un playable.
my melee tank against 2 60+ spies and a capped PE, who won hmmm, me and i dont rate myself as uber.
QuantumDelta
14-11-03, 18:04
ezza...problem is melee has a solid flaw that I can use in open space to beat a melee user while taking hardly any damage no matter how good that melee user is....
As for that comment at the bottom, if that's fact I rate you as pretty uber, or those guys as pretty lame :p
Heavyporker
14-11-03, 18:05
QuantumDelta... you got your PE on Testserver? You going on the basis of your experience there?
Or heaven forbid, you're just using old memories of dueling meleeists on the retail servers?
Dude. Before you accuse me of going only on hearsay (which I never do, I always use modifiers my statements), make the distinction in your posts.
QuantumDelta
14-11-03, 18:07
I have a less combat-effective version of my PE on test.
It still applies...
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
ezza...problem is melee has a solid flaw that I can use in open space to beat a melee user while taking hardly any damage no matter how good that melee user is....
As for that comment at the bottom, if that's fact I rate you as pretty uber, or those guys as pretty lame :p
oh i know melee is flawed, hell has been long time, its just i dont really see what can be done to improve it, because against a tank i see it as fairly balanced, its only really when buffs that monks become underpowered.
i dunno maybe you have some ideas about what to do on the melee front, but tbh i cant really see what can be done, and i dont thik just boosting th edamage would work.
id love to see melee real viable, i have 2 tanks 1 melee 1 heavy, ive the melee was boosted, id play him all the time, cos there great for hunting messing about with etc etc.
and porker i may not agree with QD that often but hes normally got facts to back his comments up, so i normally listen to what he says even if it aint what you want to hear.
except if hes in tank bashing mode, in that case he can tell it to the birds:p
QuantumDelta
14-11-03, 18:15
Yes.
Make Melee Short Range Ballistic with no actually Ballistic Graphic effect..
As currently is there are.....loopholes that can be used to stop melee hitting... even if the melee user is in range of his target..
Hiya, welcome back! The world of the ppu's.. has changed quite drasticly since you left. Our defensive abiltiies have multiplied, our responsibilities have skyrocketed, and everyone hates us. Nc is run by ppu's now, they are the deciding factor in any fight. To take on the monsters with the better loot, you need a ppu. To fight against other players, you need a ppu because they will bring a ppu against you. Because of how important ppu's are, apu's have become the second most important class. Their job is mainly to kill ppu's, which they can do very effectively. They have quite a nasty spell called Holy AntiBuff, which strips shelter, deflector, and heal off of the target. Lots of people, myself included, have lost interest in NC because of this. Fights are now determined by how many ppus and apus you bring. It gets really boring when you know your enemy has more monks then you. Oh well guess we can't win now, we'll have to come back later. This leads to the even more boring ninja hacking routine. So thanks to this, ppu's are public enemy number one. Just like Hybrids were previously, I forsee much nerfing until we're made useless.
Shadow Dancer
14-11-03, 18:26
lol Carinth is totally right.
Yeah, I have been reading the forums for a while, and the PPU sentiment is exactly the same as the hybrid sentiment used to be.
Its funny- I wonder how many people realize that the PPUs are a product of players complaining about hybrids, and demanding that monks be made to specialize in PPU or APU, but not both???
But its because of how PPUs are viewed that I would never consider playing one now. I really had fun building for people and then hitting the caves and keeping everyone alive... but that was back when 99.999987% of monks where hybrid and didnt have the ultra high end heal spells, so a PPU monk was of use. :p
Did they ever raise the Int levelling speed of the monks?
Originally posted by Strych9
Did they ever raise the Int levelling speed of the monks?
they raised it a little bit
Shadow Dancer
14-11-03, 18:38
Originally posted by Strych9
Yeah, I have been reading the forums for a while, and the PPU sentiment is exactly the same as the hybrid sentiment used to be.
Its funny- I wonder how many people realize that the PPUs are a product of players complaining about hybrids, and demanding that monks be made to specialize in PPU or APU, but not both???
No, you can't generalize like that. Some people(like me) asked for hybrids to be BALANCED. Some people wanted hybrids totally destroyed. ULTIMATELY it's KK's "fault" that the PPu turned out the way they did, because KK was the one to make them. And hybrids WERE overpowered, so something had to be done about them.
And the INT gain was raised .0000000000000000009%. :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
No, you can't generalize like that. Some people(like me) asked for hybrids to be BALANCED. Some people wanted hybrids totally destroyed. ULTIMATELY it's KK's "fault" that the PPu turned out the way they did, because KK was the one to make them. And hybrids WERE overpowered, so something had to be done about them.I understand what you are saying, but while KK is the one that "made" them there was a huge outcry in the forums. And it wasnt KK that was doing the complaining.
If you recall, its not that hybrids werent balanced... its that 100% capped hybrid monks (of which there were VERY few) seemed unbalanced to the tanks that were used to dominating PvP up until that point. Trust me, back then I worked all of the numbes, and in order to be "uber" as a hybrid you really had to be totally capped out. What in the forums sounded like a widespread epidemic was actually a much smaller issue.
Inasmuch as we expect... if not demand... that KK listen to what the players want, we can only dish so much responsibility on KK for how things turn out.
Yes, KK is the one that pushed the button. No denying that. :cool:
And the INT gain was raised .0000000000000000009%. :p Hehe. That was the one thing I consistently lobbied for. If not for the brief period where monks had that group heal exploit, I dont think anyone would have ever capped Int as a monk.
Shadow Dancer
14-11-03, 18:57
Originally posted by Strych9
I understand what you are saying, but while KK is the one that "made" them there was a huge outcry in the forums. And it wasnt KK that was doing the complaining.
If you recall, its not that hybrids werent balanced... its that 100% capped hybrid monks (of which there were VERY few) seemed unbalanced to the tanks that were used to dominating PvP up until that point.
I disagree. I lommed to hybrid to test it out, and after fixing my con setup and practising a bit, I was dominating left and right. Beating some of the best tanks, and even multiple tanks at once. And my aim SUCKED. It's rediculous, sometimes I would miss ALOT and they would hit me each time and it doesn't matter because I could run circles around them while healing and whittle them down. And this was without DS or capped int, and just an energy beam. How do you explain that? THAT is overpowered.
It doesn't matter if only a few hybrids were like that, the point is the potential was there. And if someone with horrible aim like me can take down multiple good tanks, then please tell me how that is balanced?
Originally posted by Strych9
Trust me, back then I worked all of the numbes, and in order to be "uber" as a hybrid you really had to be totally capped out. What in the forums sounded like a widespread epidemic was actually a much smaller issue.
I disagree. ;)
The fact is a good X(pe, tank, apu, spy) should have a "realistic" chance of taking down a good hybrid.
Originally posted by Strych9
Inasmuch as we expect... if not demand... that KK listen to what the players want, we can only dish so much responsibility on KK for how things turn out.
When did players ask for PPus to be this important? It's KK's fault for not knowing what they wanted monks to be, in the first place. KK was the one who introduced the monk and left them imbalanced for such a long time. They let the problem grow and grow and grow and grow that rational "balance them please" statements were being drowned out by "wtf DESTROY THEM" statements, due to such a long period of time dealing with an overpowered class.
We had no part in how pures were going to be implemented, I wish we did.
Originally posted by Strych9
Hehe. That was the one thing I consistently lobbied for. If not for the brief period where monks had that group heal exploit, I dont think anyone would have ever capped Int as a monk.
Details, details. :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
When did players ask for PPus to be this important? It's KK's fault for not knowing what they wanted monks to be, in the first place. KK was the one who introduced the monk and left them imbalanced for such a long time. They let the problem grow and grow and grow and grow that rational "balance them please" statements were being drowned out by "wtf DESTROY THEM" statements, due to such a long period of time dealing with an overpowered class.First, as you sure we are talking about the same period of time here?
I had a monk with like 90 Int and 100 Psi... not counting imps... and that was one of the best around back then. And he couldn't go hybrid and cast the Holy versions of the PPU spells and the rare APU spells at the same time (which in most people's mind was the problem back then ). So maybe you and I are talking about two different times in the evolution of the game. I know that since then there have been more imps introduced that would allow that to happen more easily- but for me, it was Psi Core...and thats it. I of course used the Psi Defensive chips which took away from APU since I didnt have APU anyway, but hybrids couldnt use those chips.
Regarding 'when did players ask for PPUs to be this important?" I can answer that one... all the time. There is a reason there were only a handful of PPUs back in the day- because being a PPU was absolutely a drag. PPUs where cherished, but no one played one because levelling was so absolutely slow, and the effectiveness of the PPU is nothing like what it apparently is now.
So yes, players did want the PPU to be worth playing. Players begged for that, especially players that tried to be a PPU.
Non-PPU players begged for monks to have to specialize in one or the other, but not APU and PPU at the same time.
So the demand was there. Again, we may be talking about two different periods of time here...
And I am not saying that KK handled the monk situation perfectly. I am *only* saying that back before monks had to specialize (which is now the problem) there were a lot of players calling for specialization as the answer to the hybrid problem. It was known back then that the alternative to hybrids was having ultra PPU and ultra APU monks, and people wanted that. Back then.
Shadow Dancer
14-11-03, 19:22
Originally posted by Strych9
First, as you sure we are talking about the same period of time here?
I had a monk with like 90 Int and 100 Psi... not counting imps... and that was one of the best around back then. And he couldn't go hybrid and cast the Holy versions of the PPU spells and the rare APU spells at the same time (which in most people's mind was the problem back then ). So maybe you and I are talking about two different times in the evolution of the game. I know that since then there have been more imps introduced that would allow that to happen more easily- but for me, it was Psi Core...and thats it. I of course used the Psi Defensive chips which took away from APU since I didnt have APU anyway, but hybrids couldnt use those chips.
lol
Well I know that when DS was introduced, more hybrids came into the fray because it allowed holy spells with rare apu spells. But I didn't have DS, so I used energy beam with holy spells. My base int was 85.
Originally posted by Strych9
Regarding 'when did players ask for PPUs to be this important?" I can answer that one... all the time. There is a reason there were only a handful of PPUs back in the day- because being a PPU was absolutely a drag. PPUs where cherished, but no one played one because levelling was so absolutely slow, and the effectiveness of the PPU is nothing like what it apparently is now.
See, the problem is you keep generalizing. There's a difference between ALL players and a few/some players. I don't remember asking for ppus to be this important. The effectiveness of the ppu was the same back then. They still had psi mods and their spells were the same. As a matter of fact, their shields on other players were stronger back then. So ppus weren't boosted. Their effectiveness is the same. So what are you talking about? They were still worth playing, it's only that the OVERPOWERED hybrid outshined pure monks. I recall alot of people simply wanting hybrids to be balanced. TO say that all players wanted pures to be the only ones or all players wanted ppus to be important is beyond silly.
Originally posted by Strych9
Non-PPU players begged for monks to have to specialize in one or the other, but not APU and PPU at the same time.
Another generalization.
Originally posted by Strych9
It was known back then that the alternative to hybrids was having ultra PPU and ultra APU monks, and people wanted that. Back then.
People wanted ULTRA ppus and apus? Yea ok. I guess there's nothign left to argue since I just totally disagree with your generalizations and your claims of what people wanted.
EDIT: At one point 99% of monks were just hybrids. This was obviously when they were still overpowered. And instead of balancing hybrids FIRST, KK introduced pure monks. So once again you can blame KK for not looking ahead more carefully.
That I can recall, there have been pretty much 3 big periods for ppu's. Each period had the ppu play a different role, especialy in how ppu's effected other players.
Newborn PPU: I forget what patch it was, but they got rid of EPU, introduced MST and created the purely passive monk. This is back when there were only a few diehard ppu's, who wanted to test the new class. We were weak, we died easily, couldn't level very well, were royaly fustrated at how much work ppu's had to do and how little we got in return. Other monks laughed at us for being pure, how ridiculous is the idea of a pure monk? FMN, Strych9, me, and some others were the silly ppu monks of this time.
The Few, The Proud, The PPU's: Finnaly they started improving ppu's, with many subtle and behind the scene changes. There still weren't many ppu's around at this time, but we started to learn. In addition to new spells and other modifications, the players behind the ppu's started to figure out how ppu's work. Now you have a few ppu's walking around like gods and totaly wrecking pvp combat. A couple clans easily dominate the scene by each having one of these super ppu's. People are starting to become concerned about how powerful these ppu's are, but they were so few that it wasn't a big problem. This is the age of Polarity, aka Pittspawn. He pretty well summed up what an uber ppu was.
The Bandwagon PPU's: The general population finnaly caught on to what the few uber ppu's were doing and suddenly we were inundated with a wave of decent ppu's. The uber's are still around but their impact isn't nearly as big. Everyone and their mother has a ppu now. It's nolonger enough to bring a ppu, you have to bring several ppu's to outdo your enemies. The ppu has so far eclipsed the other classes (aside from apu, which is really only important because they kill ppu's), that it's just not fun.
That's the history of the ppu's in a nutshell, if you think about it this pretty well parallels what happened to hybrids. Shadow and Strych9, you are indeed talking about different periods. At first only a few hybrids reigned supreme, people like Muumi, eRAZOR, Kazper, just to name a few. They were the hybrids that could single handedly take on 5 enemies and win. I was a hybrid at the time, but I sucked horribly. Gradualy though people learn, myself included. More and more people go hybrid and find it fairly easy to create an uber setup. I even got better, and took the infamous MegaMan down in a duel at TH. I switched back to ppu, but this is when the hybrids took off. You could hand a fully setup hybrid to nearly anyone and they would be able to kick butt. Skill of course made you even better, but you didn't need it. So hybrids sprung up everywhere and dominated the scene. The backlash from this brought us to the current fiasco.
Edit: Had a lot to say, but decided it wasnt worth it given my response in the next post.
If we are talking about different time periods, which I suspected and Shadow Dancer never responded about- then that explains everything.
Originally posted by Carinth
Shadow and Strych9, you are indeed talking about different periods. ... So hybrids sprung up everywhere and dominated the scene. The backlash from this brought us to the current fiasco. Thanks for the clarification Carinth.
I apologize for not clarifying what period I was in fact referring to. I didnt have a clear enough memory to be able to fully explain exactly what time period it was.
Shadow Dancer
14-11-03, 23:27
nevermind
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