View Full Version : THREADS MERGED - KK Cares!
Well, here's the final proof that KK does indeed not care about hacked accounts. They won't even say "we're looking into it" or that the smallest, most miniscule amount of effort is being put into trying to find the hacker.
Basically KK, thanks for turning right around, and telling us to go fuck ourselves for the loss. It's just a matter of time now before we find a new game, thanks again for not giving two shits.
Subject :
[Ticket#: 2003111211003437] Re: hacked account
Hi comie,
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71706
With kind regards,
Warren Ferguson
--
Neocron Support Team
www.neocron.com
REAKKTOR.COM
Building Better Worlds
www.reakktor.com
it sucks to be you doesn't it o_O :(
•Super|\|ova•
14-11-03, 03:18
I don't know what to say :( shit... :( I mean... shit :(
You actually expected them to do something......?
So they didnt give you the 100k like they normally do?
he expected prolly something like were working on a fix for our servers or were looking into it or something like that
@ Lathuc, yes, something to at least acknowledge there's a problem and that they are looking into it. But they're so 'high-and-mighty', they couldn't even take the time to type sorry. Send the link, flipped us off, and went on their merry way.
I love the new patch notes. That's why NC gets high ratings for me in many fields in the reviews I've been writing.
But this is the last straw. Customer Service has just officially hit 1. Can they be more callous and rude? Why don't you just delete our characters for us :mad:
MayhemMike
14-11-03, 03:23
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - trolling ]
[Edited for Flaming - Gungnir]
You're just as callous as them. I can only pray that your account is hacked and everything you've played for is stripped from you and tossed out like you never even spent months playing and PAYING for the game. Then I hope it happens to you again. Just so you'll shut the hell up when you understand how frustrating it is.
As people have said, hate me/us in game, that's fine. But when you take it out of game into the realm of hacking accounts and slandering IRL, you just need to grow the hell up.
kthxbye.
KK dont have customer support its a long established fact.
nonamebrandeggs
14-11-03, 03:30
/me flips KK the bird right back at them
This wasn't just at FN it was at all of us. If one of our accounts get hacked they won't give a shit just the same. Let's send KK a card.
MayhemMike
14-11-03, 04:09
OMFG MY ACCOUNT WAS JUST HACKED.
Originally posted by MayhemMike
OMFG MY ACCOUNT WAS JUST HACKED. AHH BAD LUCK TO EVEN READ THAT AHHH ;.; i hate see'ing that i really really dont like see'ing that ;.;
btw i found a trojan on my comp today after not dling anyfiles what so ever lately, and it jus got on my comp today. so im a bit confused about how it got on mah comp
just wait until a gm account is hacked or something.
or like half the community gets their accounts hacked and kk one by one, just tells em to fuck off..
KK if you can see this. You need to do something. Your game has gone to shit because you dont listen. Sure you put shit onto test server, but how long did that take? This isnt a flame, more of a wake up for kk. Being the miss cleo i am, I can see many people leaving if you dont fix these problems.
Cypher_Psy
14-11-03, 05:41
To reply to such a sensitive issue with what looks like an automated reply..... Go's beyond the realm of disbelief.
To sum up what happened there, It's like KK have just said ... hacked account? hahaha, you must be lying just like all the other people, security issue at our end? No, can't be us, damn lying users, our systems are infallable!.
It's almost as if, they don't WANT to find the hacker...
(any normal company would be busting a nut to search and destroy any hacking threat as serious as one that makes people leave their servers, and no longer pay)
Which brings me to the conspiricy theory...
Is it an insider doing this to get rid of "un-desirables"?
I WOULD LOVE TO BE PROVED WRONG ON THIS, I WOULD LOVE FOR THE HACKER TO BE CAUGHT AND PUBLICALLY NAMED.
BTW:: I shall copy this unedited post somewhere just incase it "mysteriously vanishes".
ZoneVortex
14-11-03, 05:53
I am seriously dissapointed in that sort of response from Reakktor. Communicate with us, or how can we trust anything. Wow, great, you sent an email. Cool, step one, now type something in the email saying professionally "We hear what has happened and realized this has happened to others as well. We are sorry we have no security or item identification in the game that would allow us to role back your account, giving a recovery of all items and not allowing anythin to be duped as is the worry. "
Shit, don't they get it? IT'S NOT FUCKING THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS THAT WE DOWNLOAD. It's NOT FUCKING HUMAN ERROR ON OUR PART. Fuck, why do I try?
we just should start expecting this from kk....
over and over he just slaps us in the face. I guess everyone should get used to this.
I rarely post on threads regarding this sort of matter, but KK's stance, and lack of official public response is inexcusable.
It seems to have escaped their notice that their customer base is barely more than a third of what it was at the beginning of the year.
If it's Reakktor's official policy to drive away those that remain ... well done.
Mission very nearly accomplished.
Bladepoint
14-11-03, 07:46
I love this because some people have allegedly lied about this [no proof given, but I suppose they wouldn't post all the details].... now we are all guilty before proven innocent. Oh and by the way we're not even given a chance to be proven innocent. So it all boils down to security is air-tight, the only way to lose a character is accident, 3rd party programs, or trojans... and even then this is apparently completely 100% our fault and KK has no responsiblity for any of this whatsoever or any interest in finding out who or what is behind this.
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KK Cares!
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LOL
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there is nothing better to play :(
And if suxor leaves pluto it will become even more boring :(
this sux :( , it cant be too hard to go to the forums and type: "were working on it". is it?
Instead of punishing people who play and pay for the game, how about finding the hackers and punish them instead? Good idea, no?
Nope, sounds too logical!
Martin J. Schwiezer
14-11-03, 23:57
Actually we DO CARE... but we do it on a different level. We are currently increasing the security defenses on the servers to REALLY be 120% sure that no one steals account data from the server.
As a next step, we will protect the pw section of the website against any brute force attacks.
On an individual basis, we simply don't have a chance to validate whether something has been a true hack or just "the little brother" playing around with your computer...
That's pretty much the whole issue about why we appear to react harshly upon these kind of requests. Please try to understand our point too.
With all due respect FN...
I know u and SXR have been experiencing a lot of shit recently, but what do you expect KK to do about it. If you read that bit on the forum It says what it says it's because there has been an alarming amount of blaggers knocking about over the last 6 months.
Basically KK were generous at one point but they have now opted for a policy of 1 rule for all. This can only mean fairness across the board.
If you want sympathy then I have it for you in droves. I pray something like this never happens to me (I have had problems but not to this extent and received no compensation). But at the end of the day you need to petition KK to get them interested in improving their security and also making your clan members aware of Home Computer Security.
GLHF
Richard Adregen
15-11-03, 00:12
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
On an individual basis, we simply don't have a chance to validate whether something has been a true hack or just "the little brother" playing around with your computer...
Well, you probably could if you logged every IP that used an account, but that's a LOT of logs... And a lot of trouble if someone has a dynamic IP.
I can see though, why you wouldn't reimburse someone that got hacked, but if it's a clan suffering from attacks? IMO something should be done... I just don't have any idea how :(
RA.
Disturbed021
15-11-03, 00:12
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
As a next step, we will protect the pw section of the website against any brute force attacks.
I think noone really cares all that much about getting their stuff back they just want to hear those EXACT words; we are working on making things more secure so this doesn't happen again, etc.....
Thanks.
Thank you for the reply MJS. Yes, I've been overly 'pissed off' on the forums lately, but it has been, I feel, for good reason. As a leader, I have a responsibility leading a great group of players on Pluto and when we are repeatedly kicked in the groin it's hard to retain any level of structure.
Then, to get the seeminly 'auto-reply' email regarding our latest loss, that has just about pushed me over the edge. As paying customers with accounts, why can we not get access to what IPs were logged onto our accounts and when? If any IP that we know that is not ours, we could surely investigate it ourselves. If KK cannot investigate these things on a case-to-case basis, which is somewhat understandable, why can't we? We pay for our accounts and our service, I think we deserve at least the smallest control over our 'security', don't you?
Some of the accounts that have been hacked in the past have foreseeable possible leaks, that's true. But the most recent one, as well as my own, were accounts where the password was not saved, not shared, and the only place it existed was in our heads. Other than that, we as players are completely helpless to defend ourselves. So when we *are* screwed in such a manner, KK is our ONLY place we can turn to when we reach this point... which leads me back to my first point, the 'Here's a link, too bad" email, is completely inappropriate. I am trying my best now (that I'm cooling off) to understand KK's point of view, but please see ours as well. We have no affordance to replace things that take literal weeks, maybe months, of play to acquire. You do (if you still play).
-- Addendum --
I'm not asking for anything to be done, no. But yes, it does feel like a clan attack. Attacking a clan in-game is one thing, but we are MMORPG shopping and on the verge of quitting NC because of these out-of-game attacks. Maybe what the hacker wants, but then again, he/she obviously cares nothing for the game. Something I'd like is the ability to pursue our own case-to-case basis on REAL attacks. If it's fake or 'your little brother', times and IP Addresses would reflect that. Bam, problem solved, I know what to fix. But we're left completely in the dark and pushed even further when we're given no options whatsoever.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Actually we DO CARE... but we do it on a different level. We are currently increasing the security defenses on the servers to REALLY be 120% sure that no one steals account data from the server.
As a next step, we will protect the pw section of the website against any brute force attacks.
On an individual basis, we simply don't have a chance to validate whether something has been a true hack or just "the little brother" playing around with your computer...
That's pretty much the whole issue about why we appear to react harshly upon these kind of requests. Please try to understand our point too. Martin I think if at the very least the support guy wrote what you wrote, instead of just linking to a policy on the web site, it would have eased their minds a lot more. That response is just plain cold. If my account was hacked through no fault of my own and I got pointed to a sticky thread with absolutely no reassurance whatsoever, then I would be highly dissapointed.
These guys are doing everything they can to be secure and yet still they get hacked. People have posted on their clan forums and even sent FN a malicious email through the hacked account. These guys are good guys and I highly doubt they would go to the trouble of 2 months worth of deleting their characters and lossing items just as an elaborate ruse to trick Tech Support. Maybe this can be seen as a special case and you can go outside of Reakktor policy and help them out.
If not, well then FN tell me what your members lost and I will help you replace everything. Im sure other people will help too.
Originally posted by Jest
If not, well then FN tell me what your members lost and I will help you replace everything. Im sure other people will help too.
Everything is easy to replace. We as a clan have become inherent pack rats and saving back up upon back up thanks to this BS. We can replace everything a character loses in a day or so, sans MC5 chips. The problem arises in that, why should we even try if
A) KK isn't willing to work WITH us on this (maybe FOR us, but they won't tell us much in the avenue of what that is)
B) Many of the accounts have been told so kindly by this hacker that they are "not safe" and can and will be rehacked. Rento Webex has been, twice. FN has been, twice. This is after going crazy-go-nuts security and paranoia after the first hack. So why even bother to play/rebuild if it could all be gone again tomorrow?
Thank you much tho Jest for the support :( Trust me, I would rather this NOT be happening to SXR and continue to push promoting NC all over the web. But these problems are not something that I would ever want anyone else to go through.
Yeah, maybe SXR leaves. Hacker "wins". What happens when some other clan or worse, maybe even newcomers hurt his little baby feelings? Or some other jackass finds out what the hacker is doing? It's a perpetuating problem that needs looked at and I think we as paying customers need more access to the information that is associated with our paid accounts.
I'm sorry Mr. Schweizer, I know you and your company honestly do care about the game and it's playerbase, but after receiving such a curt and dismissive reply, what would you think if you were in Comie's place? You simply cannot treat paying customers with such disdain and expect them to remain customers, whether he was genuinely hacked or not.
You are taking steps to beef up security at the game servers and web servers - this shows a) you take this sort of thing very seriously, and b) you are aware of potential problems, exploits, or security holes that could lead to this sort of situation. Since you are aware of this, would it not be wise to have your staff at least consider the possibility that some people have actually been hacked, as opposed to starting withthe assumption that the cause is people having holes/problems on their home systems, or just plain lying?
Edit: This incident is not reflecting well on ReaKKtor as a whole. Even though I am very soon to be leaving the game for good, I honestly hope this does not harm your negotiations with new publishers. Neocron is a very, very good game and deserves the second chance DoY and a rerelease would give it.
I always feel a bit hurt when people say there is no customer support, because I personally work my arse off to help people - not only between 8am-4pm but all day long, whenever I am around, weekends, nights, I do my best.
Having said that, we get a lot of bogus claims about hacked accounts. Ask the one fella who posted someone had hacked into his account only to find out his brother had done it. Or the post about a friend who's ex-roommate hacked his account. Or the guy who's angry ex girlfriend deleted all his characters...etc.
As MJS has said this is a dynamic environment where we have to continuously change and adapt to make things better.
You have to do your part as well - do not save your password on your computer, do not share your account names with clan members or friends. Scan often for keyloggers, trojans, and programs that are meant to seek and destroy, as it were. Update windows critical patches! Remember to you change your password regularly and use Caps, lowercase, letters, numbers, don't be predictable.
I hope you understand why somethings are done and said the way they are. I play the game too, and I do empathize believe it or not.
Originally posted by Danae
I always feel a bit hurt when people say there is no customer support, because I personally work my arse off to help people - not only between 8am-4pm but all day long, whenever I am around, weekends, nights, I do my best.
Having said that, we get a lot of bogus claims about hacked accounts. Ask the one fella who posted someone had hacked into his account only to find out his brother had done it. Or the post about a friend who's ex-roommate hacked his account. Or the guy who's angry ex girlfriend deleted all his characters...etc.
As MJS has said this is a dynamic environment where we have to continuously change and adapt to make things better.
You have to do your part as well - do not save your password on your computer, do not share your account names with clan members or friends. Scan often for keyloggers, trojans, and programs that are meant to seek and destroy, as it were. Update windows critical patches! Remember to you change your password regularly and use Caps, lowercase, letters, numbers, don't be predictable.
I hope you understand why somethings are done and said the way they are. I play the game too, and I do empathize believe it or not.
.......
tbh i've never had a problem with the helpdesk, in fact they've usually been really good with me.
I do hear the occasional horror story though, kinda sucks........for both sides.
ghandisfury
15-11-03, 02:03
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Actually we DO CARE... but we do it on a different level. We are currently increasing the security defenses on the servers to REALLY be 120% sure that no one steals account data from the server.
As a next step, we will protect the pw section of the website against any brute force attacks.
On an individual basis, we simply don't have a chance to validate whether something has been a true hack or just "the little brother" playing around with your computer...
That's pretty much the whole issue about why we appear to react harshly upon these kind of requests. Please try to understand our point too.
MJ, if you request that we "understand" your point of view, try to understand ours. I have personally been hacked 2 times (maybe three), and I have some of the best security out there.
Here's the problem with your point of view. You say "if one person lied to us, then ALL people lie to us". You don't investigate, you don't *try* to see where we are coming from, you just tell us to "deal with it". You have admitted in the past that there are security issues with your server, and you have also admitted in *this* post that security issues are still completely unresolved. Until you are 100% sure that a hacker cannot get information from your end of the world, then you MUST follow one simple rule............THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT................
You (and by you I mean KK) have destroyed one of the best games I've ever played. When I was hacked you did nothing. The second time hacked you laughed (yes, I actually got an "lol"). I lost all of my stuff, all of my implants, and over 60 MC5 chips. You called me a liar. You didn't even investigate. ...........and now after I've seen five of my friends hacked you ask me to understand. I'm sorry.........I don't.
It's all for not, I will be gone soon. I refuse to stay with a company (whether it be a game or a stock consulting firm) that has no respect for their costumers.
Ghandi.
Originally posted by Danae
I always feel a bit hurt when people say there is no customer support, because I personally work my arse off to help people - not only between 8am-4pm but all day long, whenever I am around, weekends, nights, I do my best.
/meh comforts Danae.. I think u doin great job :D
KRIMINAL99
15-11-03, 02:36
Originally posted by ghandisfury
MJ, if you request that we "understand" your point of view, try to understand ours. I have personally been hacked 2 times (maybe three), and I have some of the best security out there.
Here's the problem with your point of view. You say "if one person lied to us, then ALL people lie to us". You don't investigate, you don't *try* to see where we are coming from, you just tell us to "deal with it". You have admitted in the past that there are security issues with your server, and you have also admitted in *this* post that security issues are still completely unresolved. Until you are 100% sure that a hacker cannot get information from your end of the world, then you MUST follow one simple rule............THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT................
You (and by you I mean KK) have destroyed one of the best games I've ever played. When I was hacked you did nothing. The second time hacked you laughed (yes, I actually got an "lol"). I lost all of my stuff, all of my implants, and over 60 MC5 chips. You called me a liar. You didn't even investigate. ...........and now after I've seen five of my friends hacked you ask me to understand. I'm sorry.........I don't.
It's all for not, I will be gone soon. I refuse to stay with a company (whether it be a game or a stock consulting firm) that has no respect for their costumers.
Ghandi.
And whats worse they not only make everyone suffer for a few dummies mistakes, they come to the legitimate people with an attitude like "Well its YALLS fault because YALL did this"...
As if the people who get screwed over by it had ANY CONNECTION WHATSOEVER to the same people who misused the system before...
Why don't you just put a random six of your customers to death every time someone exploits or something...
I can understand about an inability to deal with something like that in any other way (assuming there isn't any other way to deal with it, which the attitude taken doesn't reassure us of) But why would you send a message like that to someone who lost ALL their stuff because someone hacked their account and they had no control over it....
KK customer support blows Danae, sorry but that reply might as well say 'Go F*** yourself', SXR learned its lessons when Rento Webex was hacked, we did everything in our power as users to protect our computers YET somehow someone gets passwords still.
To be honest I think its an employee of KK thats doing this.
The average tosser on this forum wouldnt have the knowledge or understanding to hack thru a fire wall to pull an encripted password from the neocron directory OR place a key logger and pull the password.
The simplest answer is often the correct answer, [ edited for violation of the forum rules - GMs can't access player accounts, but other than that, you're right, the simplest answers are often correct ]
I'm playing till SXR leave, then I go to.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
KK customer support blows Danae, sorry but that reply might as well say 'Go F*** yourself', SXR learned its lessons when Rento Webex was hacked, we did everything in our power as users to protect our computers YET somehow someone gets passwords still.
To be honest I think its an employee of KK thats doing this.
The average tosser on this forum wouldnt have the knowledge or understanding to hack thru a fire wall to pull an encripted password from the neocron directory OR place a key logger and pull the password.
The simplest answer is often the correct answer, [ edited ]
I'm playing till SXR leave, then I go to.
Corrupt GM's.
Nogravity.
My RL friend was a gm that decided to do some bad stuff. I don't talk to him anymore, but.....there are bad gm's. I'm sure of it.
Rather than edit that last post (which I should) I think it would be better to just tell you that GMs have absolutely no access to player's characters. Only KK employess can do that. Why would Odin or Danae (for example) have any interest whatsoever in your clan's politics enough to want to "hack" you? o_O
N
Originally posted by Nidhogg
Rather than edit that last post (which I should) I think it would be better to just tell you that GMs have absolutely no access to player's characters. Only KK employess can do that. Why would Odin or Danae (for example) have any interest whatsoever in your clan's politics enough to want to "hack" you? o_O
N
ahh sorry, didn't know i couldn't say that.
But yeah, he didn't hack peoples accounts.....They could just spawn whatever the hell they want.
However, i think if you're not what the gm's want, they could "weed out" the unwanted NC players...
Shadow Dancer
15-11-03, 03:22
Originally posted by Nidhogg
Why would Odin or Danae (for example) have any interest whatsoever in your clan's politics enough to want to "hack" you? o_O
N
Maybe they got paraspammed too much?
:p
Martin J. Schwiezer
15-11-03, 03:35
Originally posted by ghandisfury
MJ, if you request that we "understand" your point of view, try to understand ours. I have personally been hacked 2 times (maybe three), and I have some of the best security out there.
Here's the problem with your point of view. You say "if one person lied to us, then ALL people lie to us". You don't investigate, you don't *try* to see where we are coming from, you just tell us to "deal with it". Well Ghandi, then how do you expect us to investigate whether your little brother has been playing with your computer or not? We're not the FBI and I am not Fox Mulder (although some people call me "spooky") ;)
We do not say that players lie to us, but we say that we have no way to find out whether they do lie or not. We do everything to ensure serverside security, but you've asked for 100% security... which is simply not achievable. Neither client- nor serverside. Period. Whoever tells you his system is 100% safe, is lying (or, which is more likely, doesn't know better).
Also, as Danae already pointed out, improving security on both sides is an evolutionary process. It's not something you "install" and then everything is safe forever. A solution like this does not exist.
Again... to point out the main aspect of this post, I can only tell you that there is no way to investigate on which side an account has been hacked or "abused". All we can do is to constantly improve our security systems... and that's what we do all the time. So we actually do care.
We regret every inconvenience (sorry for the soft word) a player could possible experience when playing Neocron. Simple logic should tell you that we don't want people to feel annoyed or let down by the product or by KK or KK's support staff, because that might lead to a situation where the player simply quits his account. So why on earth do some of you assume that we have a "Go, F**k yourself!" attitude towards players who ask us for help with their problems? That simply doesn't make sense.
If you ever get an insulting or ridiculing email from one of our supporters, then feel free to forward it to me through this forum via PM and I promise that I will talk to that supporter and that you will get a written excuse from that very person within 7 days. But please don't say that the supporters or that KK does not care. You're actually damaging the reputation of those who really work their ass off to provide a good service. Thanks.
Yeah, you are right Martin. You honestly are doing your very best, and i'm sure people who say you aren't have to hurt you a bit everytime you read their insults.
I suppose both sides are frustrated in this issue. There is no right solution (or 100 percent security)
I suppose we can rest easy in the fact you may not have all the answers, but you're working damn hard finding them. :angel:
Peace. Sorry again to mention the name of the gm btw.
P.S. Nice to see you still posting nowadays MJS. Good to see.
It really is unfortunate when things like this happen.
I for one would be extremly pissed off.
Even more unfortunate that usually you only get 1oo,ooo CR back for this kind of thing, which, unfortunatly, whith the market on the servers today, gets you almost nothing.
Really its money to buy everything you need to get everything you lost. (armor, NON RARE weapon, etc...)
and to M.J.S.
did you get MY PM? Just curious, I dont except a straight answer from that, just numbers are good, gives the community an idea what to expect. Or is that infringing on the negotiations?
Originally posted by ghandisfury
MJ, if you request that we "understand" your point of view, try to understand ours. I have personally been hacked 2 times (maybe three), and I have some of the best security out there. like mjs said.
and someone, i think mjs, also stated in this thread that they have some ways to trace stuff but they are limited. and im pretty sure he said hes trying to increase security.
so what more can they investigate then what they have available to them?
they check what they can, and they cant goto everyones house when they are hacked.
but 1 thing they could and should do is check the emails out that you guys are saying your accounts were changed into.
they can do many things with that alone. contact hotmail / yahoo / whatever service and tell them who they are and why they are contacting them, and hotmail and all other services ( that i know of ) do log ips and any other information they can get in case of stuff like this.
when they have any information on them they can first check there database ( and i hope they log ips on logins )and check for the ip on any of the accounts. and if the ip matches up with anything, they have alot of info on who did it there.
ur account holds ur name, your home address, home phone everything.
and they can do 3 things, either call their local isp and report them, or call there local police office and tell them ( i doubt they'd care ;P ) or call the person themself. ( the person doing it is most likely living with his parents so tell his parents ;P )
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Well Ghandi, then how do you expect us to investigate whether your little brother has been playing with your computer or not? We're not the FBI and I am not Fox Mulder (although some people call me "spooky") ;)
We do not say that players lie to us, but we say that we have no way to find out whether they do lie or not. We do everything to ensure serverside security, but you've asked for 100% security... which is simply not achievable. Neither client- nor serverside. Period. Whoever tells you his system is 100% safe, is lying (or, which is more likely, doesn't know better).
Also, as Danae already pointed out, improving security on both sides is an evolutionary process. It's not something you "install" and then everything is safe forever. A solution like this does not exist.
Again... to point out the main aspect of this post, I can only tell you that there is no way to investigate on which side an account has been hacked or "abused". All we can do is to constantly improve our security systems... and that's what we do all the time. So we actually do care.
We regret every inconvenience (sorry for the soft word) a player could possible experience when playing Neocron. Simple logic should tell you that we don't want people to feel annoyed or let down by the product or by KK or KK's support staff, because that might lead to a situation where the player simply quits his account. So why on earth do some of you assume that we have a "Go, F**k yourself!" attitude towards players who ask us for help with their problems? That simply doesn't make sense.
If you ever get an insulting or ridiculing email from one of our supporters, then feel free to forward it to me through this forum via PM and I promise that I will talk to that supporter and that you will get a written excuse from that very person within 7 days. But please don't say that the supporters or that KK does not care. You're actually damaging the reputation of those who really work their ass off to provide a good service. Thanks.
WE WUBB J00
WE WUBB J00 T00 DANAE!
While I do understand your position Martin, and support it, I do think you should have been in contact with SXR right from the point they received messages from the hacker. I'm sure you've seen FN's screenshot of the message the hacker left for him, is that not evidence enough for a rollback?
First of all I have to say Danae is helpful shes helped me out before and Im grateful for her for that.
But MJS how would you feel if you lost everything your character hard that you had spent weeks and months getting together got lost by bugs or hackers and basically being no fault of your own then you were told well theres nothing we can do here have 100k and run along? To me that seemed and would seem to be a slap in the face, it wouldnt be so bad but its an automated e-mail which just makes it worse since it seems that you dont even want to bother telling us yourself and makes the process seem so much more impersonal and that you really dont care.
•Super|\|ova•
15-11-03, 12:50
Ok... few things I gotta say.
<3 Danae :) you have been very kind and polite. I know I will get help every time I need it and just let you know what's the problem.
@MJS: Well, first of all. What happened here (and which is the topic of this thread after all) sucks. As many guys here before me have said that you SHOULD'VE let them know a bit more and in a bit polite way o_O I mean that was just sooooo cold way to tell them that. Which usually gives ppl the feeling that you don't care. Same thing on other things also... when ever I inform you guys about an exploiter/cheater or such I haven't got any reply about did he get punished or not and if so, then how did you punish him. Now there's one thing that sucks on your side atm. People who report about exploiter or cheater or such gets the feeling that there is no use to report anyone anymore since they don't know do they actually get punished or not and if so, then how do they punish him. Motivate us.
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
I am seriously dissapointed in that sort of response from Reakktor. Communicate with us, or how can we trust anything. Wow, great, you sent an email. Cool, step one, now type something in the email saying professionally "We hear what has happened and realized this has happened to others as well. We are sorry we have no security or item identification in the game that would allow us to role back your account, giving a recovery of all items and not allowing anythin to be duped as is the worry. "
Shit, don't they get it? IT'S NOT FUCKING THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS THAT WE DOWNLOAD. It's NOT FUCKING HUMAN ERROR ON OUR PART. Fuck, why do I try?
ok if u want to blame someone for this type of respence BLAME ARE ARSEHOLE WHO GOT KK TO RETRIEVE DELETED ACCOUNT TO DUPE THERE STUFF!!!!
before this happen KK retrieved account for PPl with no problem so if anyone is to black it yet again a few ppl to want unfair advantage and not KK
The peaple that this hacking is effecting are understandibly very frustrated. I have no doubt KK is frustrated with this situation also. That responce from Reactor is very cold though. I know it is dificult with out a publisher, but in the absence of a publisher, Reactor really need to look at there public relations. That sort of reply to frustrated customer is just a slap in the face.
Cypher_Psy
15-11-03, 13:49
I may have been quick to jump to conclusions earlier, just to clarify a few things...
I have no problem in general with support by KK, it is this particular reply that got FN (and quite a lot of others) annoyed by the way in which it was handled.
I have no gripes with the hard working and jolly 'Nae ;) (she rocks)
Just issue some guidelines for the support people on the hacked accounts issue in general, a little subtlety goes a long way ;)
As for security, I appreciate a *lot* your statement MJS that you are beefing up security, which I hope isn't just firewall and anti-brute force procedures, but to look also at *internal* security, to make it water-tight so there is no possible way (within reason) for someone to hack from the outside-in (or misuse anything from the inside).
IE, a rotating password scheme on account list access for one.
Also, as has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, some visible security measures that the clients can see - such as the IP that last accessed their account and the time it did so, so that the clients have something to act on themselfs.
Communication to your customers, this is what I and many others like to see, It's really good that you are still reading and posting on these forums.
It's such a shame that it has to happen in threads with a theme such as this.
ghandisfury
15-11-03, 15:35
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Well Ghandi, then how do you expect us to investigate whether your little brother has been playing with your computer or not? We're not the FBI and I am not Fox Mulder (although some people call me "spooky") ;)
My little brother died when I was 13. I understand that you are not an investigating firm, but at the same time I understand that there are certain messures you can take to find this person.....the information has been handed to you on a silver platter yet you wash your hands of the matter. It's unacceptable behavior no matter how you look at it.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
We do not say that players lie to us, but we say that we have no way to find out whether they do lie or not. We do everything to ensure serverside security, but you've asked for 100% security... which is simply not achievable. Neither client- nor serverside. Period. Whoever tells you his system is 100% safe, is lying (or, which is more likely, doesn't know better)
The moment you don't ask any questions at all and simply say "we don't recover deleted accounts" you are calling me a liar. The second you stop carring and start accusing (as you did in the last paragraph) you are calling me a liar. I am a 26 year old engineer with a $3000 dollar computer and the same team of people that protect a multi billion dollar corperation from computer attacks have helped me set up my system. I am 99% sure that it's not on my end (99% because 100 is unachivable as you so rightly wrote). But at the same time a person who would hack my system wouldn't be some two bit MMO thief, he would know EXACTLY what he was doing, and he wouldn't be looking for my character on Neocron.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Also, as Danae already pointed out, improving security on both sides is an evolutionary process. It's not something you "install" and then everything is safe forever. A solution like this does not exist
You are correct, 100% security isn't achivable however calling me a liar even though you yourself have security issues is (imo) a very bad descision.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Again... to point out the main aspect of this post, I can only tell you that there is no way to investigate on which side an account has been hacked or "abused". All we can do is to constantly improve our security systems... and that's what we do all the time. So we actually do care.
Ahh, I'm sorry I forgot that a reply to a person that just had a 4 months of work into a character *stolen* from him with a link to a page on this forum is good form.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
We regret every inconvenience (sorry for the soft word) a player could possible experience when playing Neocron. Simple logic should tell you that we don't want people to feel annoyed or let down by the product or by KK or KK's support staff, because that might lead to a situation where the player simply quits his account. So why on earth do some of you assume that we have a "Go, F**k yourself!" attitude towards players who ask us for help with their problems? That simply doesn't make sense.
MJ I have always said that I_love_this_game. I'm sure that others will agree with me. I don't understand why after a year this game is still the least stable game I've ever played. I don't understand why you don't (up until the recent post by Callash) ask players for their input and suggestions on character balancing. I don't understand you don't put more money into this product to make it the game it should be. And I will never understand why you let some of the most disrespectfull, and obtuse people (with the empathy of a pocketpen) run your customer service.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
But please don't say that the supporters or that KK does not care. You're actually damaging the reputation of those who really work their ass off to provide a good service. Thanks.
If you read the first post on this page, and honestly think that this person that responded to my friend acted responsibly than you're in more trouble that I thought. I have been in management for 4 years, and if one of my employees had written an email like this I would have assisted him with an appology letter, and put a note in his file for costumer abuse. I would have shipped him out to the nearest employee training.
Originally posted by Berzerker
The peaple that this hacking is effecting are understandibly very frustrated. I have no doubt KK is frustrated with this situation also. That responce from Reactor is very cold though. I know it is dificult with out a publisher, but in the absence of a publisher, Reactor really need to look at there public relations. That sort of reply to frustrated customer is just a slap in the face.
you had me wondering who "Reactor" was then..... and what they had to do with this problem.
Its Reakktor lol, Thus the KK as its in the middle of the word.
Try www.reakktor.com :)
Right I just want to clarify a few things.
Can you rollback *selected* characters?
If so, say someone gave a rare part to someone...then you rolled that account back an hour would the other person still have that part or would it have disappeared due to the previous player being rolled back. If it does...then why doesnt it matter if you do roll *supposedly deleted* players back! (if you can of course).
NOTE: You can probably ignore this post if the above doesnt happen, coz as you said its cheating.
If it takes time...then so be it...we pay for this game/service. Keep your customers happy its what wins you *great* feedback and as a result more players. Ive been out to several MMORPG websites, as a result of FN and the love for the game, to post some great ratings for this game.
Like what has been said, just some feedback from you guys from the start would have prevented all this because we would have not felt the need to publically state it.
all trades stay, meaning the item gets duped on a roll-back, thus why it isn't done, ever.
which is fair.
Thanks, just checking it was more along *UNABLE TO* not time related.
People dupe,
people ruin it for others,
people whine at kk,
kk defend it,
people cant see that its their mates that caused this policy,
people whine at kk.
My account got hacked, luckily i got my char back, they (kk) wiped my appartments, must have lost around 300 + ressed rares, some allready made rares, and some weapons, did i complain? hell no.
Items are replacable people, get over it, time is irreplacable, remember that.
oath.
Originally posted by Oath
Items are replacable people, get over it, time is irreplacable, remember that.
oath.
How much time do you think it takes to replace lost items? Starting from absolute scratch (No money, weapons, armour, empty apartments etc), how long would it take you to replace, say, a PP Resistor, a Moveon, an SF, a Distance 3, a Pain Easer, and a Silent Hunter?
Now imagine going through all that, finally getting everything back, then WHAM! It happens again. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be best pleased.
It's not the fact that these guys have been hacked and have to rrplace their items that's the point of this thread (though it is a factor), it's the insultingly dismissive response of KK's customer service representative, and the fact that KK haven't been keeping the victims (or anyone else) informed of what they're doing to resolve these security holes until now.
Edit: Typos
Shadow Dancer
15-11-03, 16:47
Originally posted by Oath
time is irreplacable, remember that.
oath.
You mean like the time that Ghandi and his friends put into rebuilding their accounts only to be hacked again? Yes you're right that is irreplacable. You mean like the mc5 chips they lost that take weeks of frustrating and BORING hunting in mc5? Yes that time is irreplacable. You mean like all the MONTHS of hard work they EACH put into the chars only to have it reset multiple times because of a hacker? Yes you're right, that time is irreplacable.
It's not just money or items. It's the fact that they don't know what the hell to do now because it seems the hacker won't stop. It's not a ONE time thing anymore, hell it's not a TWO time thing anymore. It's about the PRINCIPAL of it, of KK's callous response as well as them SEEMINGLY not doing anything about it. THAT"S what SXR is complaining about.
well, you shouldnt put "hard-work" into a GAME.....
it should be played not struggled at, get a job if you want to do "hard-work".
/me expects flames.
Originally posted by Ren
you had me wondering who "Reactor" was then..... and what they had to do with this problem.
Its Reakktor lol, Thus the KK as its in the middle of the word.
Try www.reakktor.com :)
Well woopy fucking do. Attack my spelling even though you odviusly know who the fuck I was writing about.
Shadow Dancer
15-11-03, 17:25
Originally posted by Ren
well, you shouldnt put "hard-work" into a GAME.....
it should be played not struggled at, get a job if you want to do "hard-work".
/me expects flames.
Right........................this is a mmorpg dude.
Perhaps the mmorpg with the least amount of "work" you have to put in.
Go tell EQ players or Ultima players what you just said. :lol:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Right........................this is a mmorpg dude.
Perhaps the mmorpg with the least amount of "work" you have to put in.
Go tell EQ players or Ultima players what you just said. :lol:
That still does not defeat his argument Shadow. No one tells these people to put so much effort and time into these games.
Ok i offended some people........so i apologise for my wording.
when i got hacked, as you all know i was fucking mad, ive spent the longest time leveling my tank to level where hes pvp worthy, luckily i have a very large group of friends, and they helped me out a lot.
The fact that they are being hacked continously is a problem, im not a god, i dont have all the answers, it seems as though you all picked only one part of my post to pick out and whine about.
I also lost most of my items, luckily oath was restored with his inventory so i still had a cannon.
I never said it didnt suck, far from it, i can only sympathise with them and hope i didnt offend them too much.
The hacker has to be dealt with, i agree, even if its just ip logging *wich i assume the server does automatically?*
When i said that items were replaceable, i meant it.
When i said time was not, i meant that, in both the aspects, this is an arguement to both sides, as both you and shadow pickup only on the negative aspect of this i thought id explain it.
Time..........to level your char.
Time..........to find all the rares n shit.
Time..........to tweak your 1337 setup.
Time..........to mind numbingly do MC5.
Time..........to replace clan stature/funds.
Unless their chars were deleted *i dunno?* then they still have some of that, and the items, while time consuming, lame, dull, generally shite, ARE replaceable.
I agree with KKs policys, i always have, regardless wether we see it or not they are trying to impartially moderate our game, somtime they look callous, mean, or sometimes downright malicious........theyre doing theyre job, while SXR getting hacked several times is fucking lame, you can really have dual standards, i dint know why oath got returned, in any form, as i said to steven bast, id hand al my items over, the most important thing for me was the xp i'd lose, i simply dont have the time or will to relevel another char.
Im unsure of the total situation with sxr, but beleive me, i think it sucks, the fact that its happened twice is even worse.
I know i seem to be a dick, but until kk fuck up massively ill agree with their policies...............its kinda typical that the people leading it seem cold faced towards things like this, but, from what i see, im sure MJS is pretty pissed that
a) it happened again.
b) the servers are still unsafe.
c) the shittiness of what happened to sxr.
d) not being really able to be seen bending the rules to fix it.
while i dont doubt for a second Sxr got shafted, the last thing i wanna see is everyone and their mom logging on claiming they got hacked, again i restate, I HAVE NO DOUBT SXR GOT FUCKED, their are always people waiting to take advantage of the misfortune of others.
Even though its shitty, i'd take the same line.
sorry........i know this is gonna offend more people :( .
probably something to do with the server downgrade
Subject :
[Ticket#: 2003111211004321] Re: hacked account
Hi,
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71706
With kind regards,
Warren Ferguson
--
Neocron Support Team
www.neocron.com
REAKKTOR.COM
Building Better Worlds
www.reakktor.com
(not my email btw this is quoted)
and we ask where all the players go when this is the level of help that KK can offer us. if i was running a game like this i'd spend a lot more time worring about players problems and what the players want rather than telling them what they are going to have and deciding what the game needs done to it.
i challenge you. i need 5 good reasons not to cancel
Richard Adregen
15-11-03, 22:56
How about you actually READ the rest of that thread? That should give you some reasons... MJS himself has graced that thread. it may be a cold and harsh response from helpdesk, but that's ONE employee. It's not ALL helpdesk employees that are like that.
RA.
sry was meant to be a reply not new topic
Hah, I just read the hacker's post on the SXR forums.
Pretty sure I know the method he used to haxor though I wouldnt really call it hacking. Have a fairly good idea who taught him too.
Oh the drama.
Martin J. Schwiezer
16-11-03, 04:38
Originally posted by Lenard
Pretty sure I know the method he used to haxor though I wouldnt really call it hacking. Have a fairly good idea who taught him too. Okay, I expect a PM from you, where you "teach" me the method, too. If I don't get a PM from you, you will have to face the consequences. If this only was a "smart ass remark", then I can only advise you to think before you type.
Well, to give an evidence that I am not only talking to calm everybody down: Today (a Saturday) we've checked the server's db logs to find out whether there has been an attempt to get into our stuff and either that "hacker" did a _really_ good job (by e.g. changing the logs, too) or there simply hasn't been anybody playing around with the db.
As I promised yesterday, we also protected the PW management on the Neocron.com homepage against any brute force attacks, by limiting the amount of trials you have to enter your password. AGAIN: We did this on a Saturday... you can go to the account management and check it out right now. This really should give you at least some indication that we actually DO CARE!!!
We will continue to increase security measures on the servers... since, as said before, this is always a evolutionary process, rather than a quick install of some safe-guard system.
Shadow Dancer
16-11-03, 06:19
Originally posted by Lenard
That still does not defeat his argument Shadow. No one tells these people to put so much effort and time into these games.
Defeat his arguement? O_o? He's simply stating an OPINION that you shouldn't put so much time into a mmorpg, and I'm disagreeing with that. That's it.
If someone says they dislike chicken how can I "defeat" that arguement? Doesn't really make sense. :p
Who the heck cares why they put so much time into it?
My point is that REGARDLESS OF WHY or whether or not they should have put all that time in, the point is that they DID and LOST it. That's the point. IMHO.
Also even if you play casually for a mmorpg, and play for a few months you're still going to rack up "alot of time and hard work" just by the amount of months. And if everyone stopped playing a mmorpg after 2 months just because of some unwritten rule that for some odd reason you shouldn't put work into it, then mmorpgs wouldn't make money.
You wanna capture an op? Take it. How do you take it? You need a skilled and POWERFUL team. Does everyone start with capped chars? Um NO. You can't really "casually" cap a character. It's very boring and long at high levels and many people consider it work. But they have to do it if they want to PvP. And many clans help their newbie mates level and help collect rare by "working" towards. If you shouldn't work hard in a mmorpg, the mmorpg would reflect that. But it doesn't. MC5 is NOT a place that a design with "you shouldn't put too much work or time in a mmorpg" in his mind, would design. In UO it did take HARD ass work to "GM" a few stats, but you had to do it to effectively partcipate in PvP.
Let's be REAL.
EDIT: I'm not attacking you or anything lol. I just argue passionately. :p
It's a game. Games that require time and work for should at least be fun to play, or else you're wasting your time. THE END.
I enjoy(ed) neocron before i got banned, and am willing to do whatever to get back. Even if that means i'm going to have to camp mc5 for years, i'll still have fun doing it dammit. If the account gets hacked because of what i did or what happened server side...i don't give a flying fuck because i play games that i ENJOY PLAYING...
You people are missing the point here.
And yes, i know how it feels to lose your shit.
When i was stupid early retail i gave out my password and was hacked. Not really hacked...i was just really stupid.
Some guy directed me and said that there was a problem with the databases, and he needed my account information to fix it quick. He could do it without me giving the info, but it'd take longer. I didn't believe him, but some guy with a gm tag and FULL storm bot armor showed up and began to talk like a gm to me. I gave him the information...(yeah yeah, but before you tell me i'm fucking stupid, remember hindsight is 20/20) and sure enough all my shit was hacked, all i had left was a poketool, and apparently i insulted, and told all my clan members HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THINGS. I didn't care i lost my shit, i cared because my clannies even after readmitting me to MC, they were personally offended....because i called them ************'s, whatever when the hacker was on my account.
These are things you run into. I never reported it. I never really cared...it's just another excuse to go back to hunting again (and i don't really mind :) ) just look on the bright side...and you're not at work or anything when you play this GAME.
If you feel like it IS work, and you hate doing "blah blah blah"...just think of me. I'm banned, and would love to be doing that right now.... :( because of a shitty shitty stupid thing i did.
Peace. Greets to MJS again. And oh hey mjc, these people wouldn't complain if they didn't love this game so much. :p No matter how much we bitch, we do it cause we care. ^_^
ZoneVortex
16-11-03, 10:12
Originally posted by Lenard
Hah, I just read the hacker's post on the SXR forums.
Pretty sure I know the method he used to haxor though I wouldnt really call it hacking. Have a fairly good idea who taught him too.
Oh the drama.
Yeah if you know...please...share the wealth and help out.
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
Yeah if you know...please...share the wealth and help out.
Indeedy.
I already submitted it to Snow and Codi and even Dirk the terminal guy a while back.
Patch 189 fixed it just fine. The only reasons i can think of that these current accts are being hacked still after 189 is that whoever did it looks to have changed their email address.
Either that or theres another way to get acct info that I dont know about.
Cypher_Psy
16-11-03, 12:46
A patch to the GAME fixed this :wtf:
There was an ingame method? or was this something else?
I know the password info was machine specifically encoded a little while back.... So was there something along the lines of a password stealing site?
I know i'm clutching at straws but since you say it has been fixed (and wouldn't work) It would be interesting to know.
Then again if that would expose something bad, then don't.
Bah!
The person who you suspect and the person who taught them....
If caught, the police should definately be involved to teach THEM "fucking with things they shouldn't be fucking with" is a very bad thing(tm).
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
...
Well, to give an evidence that I am not only talking to calm everybody down: Today (a Saturday) we've checked the server's db logs to find out whether there has been an attempt to get into our stuff and either that "hacker" did a _really_ good job (by e.g. changing the logs, too) or there simply hasn't been anybody playing around with the db.
...
We will continue to increase security measures on the servers... since, as said before, this is always a evolutionary process, rather than a quick install of some safe-guard system.
Sorry for the belated reply but this really is the best place for the comment. I also apologize if you have undertaken these steps already (no,putting a submission limiter on the password field doesn't count).
Martin,
I'm sorry, but if you think that checking the DB logs will definitively (or even not so definitively) tell you whether or not your system has been fucked with you are sorely mistaken.
Even more advanced techniques along the same lines such as checking processor time for the DB (ie. did it use more cycles last night as compared to a random night with approx the same amount of users? if so maybe some one was running some wacky transactions and if it wasnt an employee it may be time to worry) can be defeated even if the attacker is even semi-competent (above script kiddies who use their ubar r00t kits). NOT nessecarily "_really_" good.
You need an IDS.
You need a decent (this means stateful!) firewall.
You need trip wires on the obvious (and not so obvious) executables and the logging tools.
You need someone on staff with more than a cursory interest in secuirty, not nessecarily a dedicated security administrator (although this would be ideal).
Someone with formal training or at least a hell of a lot of experience (coders are not SA's)
This includes physical and electronic security. (although I seriously doubt this was a physical attack)
You need to properly train your staff on what "Best Practices" for secure computing are (let alone customer service:( ).
What you really need is a full blown, honest to god, security audit.
The whole nine yards from physical to electronic security. Your entire life basically (I'm assuming that Reakktor is a big part of it, maybe not) is based on your data on those servers.
If you lost it all tommorrow it probably (hopefully) would be a big deal thanks to the miracle of backups but if, through your inaction, lose the confidence of your customers and Neocron faded into nothingness than I'm pretty sure that would be a big deal.
Sure I realize security audits can be expensive, but thats the price of doing electronic business. In particular YOUR business, which lets face it tends to attract customers with a lot of free time on their hands. Yes, I do understand that the actual servers are hosted by (Level3, last time I checked, right?) but you must have in house systems that could provide insecure paths to these hosts. Ask for and go over, in detail, Level3's latest security audit. If they dont have one, maybe you should find a new host.
I challenge you to post a response in this thread or another showing us that you do care about security enough to a) undergo a thorough audit (and please dont post the results;) ) b) properly train your employees. Just because they are technical people doesnt mean they always follow best practices.
Thank You,
Lev
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Actually we DO CARE... but we do it on a different level. We are currently increasing the security defenses on the servers to REALLY be 120% sure that no one steals account data from the server.
As a next step, we will protect the pw section of the website against any brute force attacks.
On an individual basis, we simply don't have a chance to validate whether something has been a true hack or just "the little brother" playing around with your computer...
That's pretty much the whole issue about why we appear to react harshly upon these kind of requests. Please try to understand our point too.
Yes, great. That combined with the fact that as you said in this thread (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82832&perpage=30&pagenumber=4) there are apparently no bugs in the game either as most players don't get them.
Why are we all presumed gulty? Who the hell cares wether it was a little brother or a hacker? The fact is someone was PAYING good money for the service for a long time only to have their items stolen from them. And now all you can say is "Well, screw you. It's probably your fault and if it isn't, then you're lieing. And even if you are telling the truth, we are not going to do anything about it." That sounds great. Why don't you try that with your insurance company? How would you feel if someone broke into your house while you're on your Haitian vacation and stole your 5 Porche's, 50 Rolexes, your 5 big screen Plasma TVs and pretty much everything else you own. And when you went to your insurance agency, instead of at least sending in an agent and checking in with Police reports they would just say "Fuck off you liar." How would that make YOU feel?
Man, MJS just keeps proving to me that he is not fit to run a company. He cannot be professional even if he tried!
MJ! You are running a BUSINESS! If you WANT customers, then you have to have something called "customer service". A major part of that service is "Customer is always right". Look at the big stores like Sears for instance. You buy something, use it, then return it (no matter condition or reason), they WILL take it back. Why? Because that way the customer WILL come back for more products. And guess what! Every time someone returns a product they are actually LOSING money. What the HELL does KK have to lose from doing a character roll-back after a few investigations? Yes, some people could use it to cheat, but so what? Who cares? Cheaters aren't any good anyway if they have to cheat to get things. And odds are they will eventually get caught and banned. A little thought goes a long way and you, sir, do not know anything it seems about running a company!
And don't tell me not to flame your infallable "god". MJS is not god, and I can say whatever I want. This is after all my opinion and last time I checked, free speech was not yet outlawed.
Originally posted by F8i
Right I just want to clarify a few things.
Can you rollback *selected* characters?
If so, say someone gave a rare part to someone...then you rolled that account back an hour would the other person still have that part or would it have disappeared due to the previous player being rolled back. If it does...then why doesnt it matter if you do roll *supposedly deleted* players back! (if you can of course).
NOTE: You can probably ignore this post if the above doesnt happen, coz as you said its cheating.
If it takes time...then so be it...we pay for this game/service. Keep your customers happy its what wins you *great* feedback and as a result more players. Ive been out to several MMORPG websites, as a result of FN and the love for the game, to post some great ratings for this game.
Like what has been said, just some feedback from you guys from the start would have prevented all this because we would have not felt the need to publically state it.
Actually I read something a long time ago about them implementing a unique ID for all items to prevent item duplication. So yes, if they roll a character back, the other person would still have the item, but then it's easy to track down the fact that two people have an item with the same exact ID and can delete it from the inventory of the other person (The one who wasn't rolled back).
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