View Full Version : Tanks - Would you like to see...
I've seen a couple of tank threads surface recently because of the decline of the former Neocron superclass.
Tank-O-Cron as it was was worse than any PPU problem we have now (allegedly :-P ) but in the main before freezers were more prominent it was a really good class to play.
I've played a tank for a good while now and in fact i'm on my second one. Recent problems highlighted have been regarding the lack of choice in PvP weapons or the drawbacks from using PA and the subsequent boycott by a lot of Tanks in the game.
I'm proposing a change to suit the class a little more. Even tho I agree us tanks need a choice of PvP weapons (CS or... ) and maybe a lift in the PA stakes I feel if it was done it should only be minor tweaks for the PA and a similar Tech Level PvP weapon with a different style of attack, just to add variety.
Anyway here goes:
I'd settle personally for the RoF to be heavily increased on AOE weapons.
Why?
Well imagine firing a salvo of 6 rockets from your Moon Striker in quick succession. Pretty powerful you would agree? PPU buster it could be. It would look like a real weapon instead of a glorified RPG launcher. Having said that... I would then ask you to consider the following factors with regards to the downside for tanks:
- Massive increase on reload time (20-30 secs - essential)
- Runspeed nerf by PA would be justified (required if u don't have enough skill to use the high end weapons... so no fix required)
- AOE weapons are already highly innacurate
Anywayz... prolly loads of flaws there and no doubt you guys will point em all out to me. Enjoy :)
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
I'm proposing a change to suit the class a little more. Even tho I agree us tanks need a choice of PvP weapons (CS or... ) and maybe a lift in the PA stakes I feel if it was done it should only be minor tweaks for the PA and a similar Tech Level PvP weapon with a different style of attack, just to add variety.
I feel we should get a PA tweak or a new design since all other PA's just look cooler now, plus we've had this Tank PA model since the beginning of time.
There have been mad suggestions on other PvP weapons for a Tank besides the CS, like a direct ray gun cannon (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81269), rare flamer, rare gat, rare laser cannon, etc.
Anyway here goes:
I'd settle personally for the RoF to be heavily increased on AOE weapons.
Why?
Well imagine firing a salvo of 6 rockets from your Moon Striker in quick succession. Pretty powerful you would agree? PPU buster it could be. It would look like a real weapon instead of a glorified RPG launcher. Having said that... I would then ask you to consider the following factors with regards to the downside for tanks:
- Massive increase on reload time (20-30 secs - essential)
- Runspeed nerf by PA would be justified (required if u don't have enough skill to use the high end weapons... so no fix required)
- AOE weapons are already highly innacurate
Anywayz... prolly loads of flaws there and no doubt you guys will point em all out to me. Enjoy :)
20-30 second reload times!!? o_O
We already move slow as shit with a heavy weapon out so no change there.
Mal is very accurate with artifact handling, while MS and DB are a little less.
I just think AoE needs to be unnerfed without any consequences.
-Faster RoF would be cool
-barrel-like after effects for a few seconds
-damage upgrade by a lot
I think a clip increase on certain weapons (CS has 30 instead of 20) would make a big difference as well and when can we get *** like every other class!? :mad:
20-30 seconds? Dude, count that time out. It would make AoE even worse than it is now, and pointless. Try leveling in the Chaos Caves with a gun like that. I could get off more shots with my mal in 30 seconds than I would get if that was changed. Yea, I see where your going with the high damage over short time thing, but that's not really the way to do it. Just either up the damage on AoE or as you sugested up the RoF a bit.
Originally posted by Marzola
Just either up the damage on AoE or as you sugested up the RoF a bit.
I vote for both. :p
Tankacron was MUCH more fun that Monkacron. And as it stands now I think you have the right idea about boostinf AoE weapons. I think thats a large part of what sets tanks apart from the other classes and it would be cool to get a boost.
Hmmmz
Ok man... the ray gun idea I saw and I didn't really think it was viable cos the weapon would supercede the CS and make it less viable. Personally i think CS is shit and i don't use it for PvP, but it is a much liked weapon. Does this not punish tanks? I think it does cos it means if ur not capped ur gettin ur ass kicked by other tanks bue to sheer firepower. That's why I say lets have an alternative of the same or similar T/L. I saw on the test server forum a note from one of the devs who was thinking of changing the t/l of all weapons. He put the STORM laser at t/l 102 even in it's dropped state. That would make a very, very interesting alternative IMO.
I see where you are coming from with your thoughts for AOE but you don't give any downside. If things happen the way you say I envisage the balance of power shifting again instead of tanks only getting a fair deal, which was why i started this thread.
I tried to give tanks a bit of an edge without pushing them to the forefront again.
BTW the reload time isn't that bad cos u could draw another weapon and unload with that in the meantime. Would prolly have to be fixed so that the weapon switch bug doesn't affect the reload time.
FLAME MEH
QuantumDelta
13-11-03, 02:33
AoE - AE Range up.
AoE - AE and Direct impact damage up.
AoE - Leaves AE Barrel effect. (Fire Moonie/Energy Malediction/Xray Doomie)
*shrug*
edit;
wtf is with "less viable" if the weapon itself hasn't been touched?
it's like saying they ultra-boosted Slasher Damage now Liberator's useless O.o
QD i didn't think you would come up with such a thoughtless comment.
I said less viable because you can use a pistol at t/l 93 (libby) and PvP effectively. Effective to the point that it becomes the desired weapon to some people. Why do Tanks have to wait until t/l 103 nevermind t/l 115, which would become the new H-C benchmark?
Please.
Tanks will get a reduction of Stamina Use on Heavy Weapons and 2 new rares with the next Testserver Patch.
Originally posted by Callash
Tanks will get a reduction of Stamina Use on Heavy Weapons and 2 new rares with the next Testserver Patch.
i think this needs to be said
WE WUB U CALLASH <3
:D :) :) :D :D
some one told us something
woooooo
back on topic
tanks get some loveing :D at fecking last.....the new rares better not be more FECKING MELEE PARTS !!!!!!!!!!!!111111oneoneone
then again as a monk i would be laughing :lol: :lol:
Originally posted by Callash
Tanks will get a reduction of Stamina Use on Heavy Weapons and 2 new rares with the next Testserver Patch.
omg looks like its back to the testserver for me, to see how the new toys shape up;)
oh and sex@Callash:D
Shadow Dancer
13-11-03, 04:38
Originally posted by Callash
Tanks will get a reduction of Stamina Use on Heavy Weapons and 2 new rares with the next Testserver Patch.
Holy shit that's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm dying to know what the rares are.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Holy shit that's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm dying to know what the rares are.
i want to as well but im too lazt to install test server / work out whats requiered :o
QuantumDelta
13-11-03, 04:46
Knowing Callash the new rares will be very fun :p
I get images of pepper park right now that people are gonna love when they see them... :p
Originally posted by Callash
Tanks will get a reduction of Stamina Use on Heavy Weapons and 2 new rares with the next Testserver Patch.
YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shadow Dancer
13-11-03, 04:47
Don't tanks have 3 rare AOE?
OMG, It HAS to be a rare gat or flamer.
OMG rare gat, noooooooooo my apu won't stand a chance. :D
i almost peed in my pants...new things for tanks...:D great...now i must go take a piss...brb
QuantumDelta
13-11-03, 05:01
Actually
I think I'll add - If Tanks are getting a Reduction in STA usage of weapons can PEs have roughly the same reduction?
My PE can't even run and fire two clips of Lib without runnin outta breath, same goes for BlackSun o_O
Heh... :P
Originally posted by Callash
Tanks will get a reduction of Stamina Use on Heavy Weapons and 2 new rares with the next Testserver Patch.
This would get me playing my tank on pluto again, it's been a while
now.
FBI
just to say somethin about the thread starters post...i dont really like the ideas...as the AOE weapons seem fine as is...it's the lack of non-aoe weapons...which hopefully the 2 new ones that are coming are non-aoe...
oh and 20-30sec reload times o_O
also i didnt know what the second option meant...(i assumed it meant like disagree)...but i still clicked teh 3rd option...lol :lol:
KRIMINAL99
13-11-03, 05:45
About stamina usage- I think the problem is with high rate of fire weapons... Its like weapons of the same tl and type use the same amount of stamina per shot regardless of rof. So if your using a speedgat, it eats all your stamina in 2 seconds flat. (Running around that is, it doesn't out do regen from crouching)
Originally posted by gostly
just to say somethin about the thread starters post...i dont really like the ideas...as the AOE weapons seem fine as is...
His ideas weren't that great but I think everyone would agree they need a bit of a boost in damage and a few other small things. Like someone else said it's the AoE weapons that make Tanks unique in a way, and they really don't do enough.
His ideas weren't that great but I think everyone would agree they need a bit of a boost in damage and a few other small things. Like someone else said it's the AoE weapons that make Tanks unique in a way, and they really don't do enough.
ah...indeed, i think the current aoe weaps need boosting also...was just trying to say that having new non-aoe weapons would make things more fun...atleast if they're good...lets just wait and hope so
Originally posted by gostly
ah...indeed, i think the current aoe weaps need boosting also...was just trying to say that having new non-aoe weapons would make things more fun...atleast if they're good...lets just wait and hope so
I can't wait!
Obviously they won't be AoE (it would be ridiculous to have another), so I'm hoping for that infamous rare gat and maybe a rare flamer/ray gun. :)
lol...i think it's time for me to make a new GIF for my sig...since now i can be proud to be a tank...lol gotta find my photoshop cd and download a gif animator...but stay-tuned....my sig's always pwn... :lol:
Shadow Dancer
13-11-03, 07:45
Who wants to be one of the rares is a rare flamer?
I sooooooooooooooooooooooooo think that's one of them. I hope the devs make the new rares on par with the CS. Devs if you read this, please don't make tanks' new rares like fire apocalypse. Basically always being outshined by Holy Lightning and just a plain 2nd rate rare.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Who wants to be one of the rares is a rare flamer?
One HAS to be a rare gat..it's only be wanted since like, forever.
The other one can be a toss up, but I'd piss my pants if it was a flamer. :D
rare flamer and rare gat...lol...those would be fun...
ot: i think my new sig is temporary...i dunno if i like it yet...maybe ill try tomorrow when i have better ideas...
I'll probably get laughed at for this, but I assume that is H-C rares and not M-C rares.
Damnit, highest M-C rare is TL 103. All other weapon classes tops at TL 115.
Can melee tanks at least get a higher RoF then?
PoB is good.. against non buffed monks with for prc/frc armour.. but that's it... it even somewhat sucks against spies... what's that about...
:D
No, the ROF on the AOE weapons is fine, after about amonth of testing my tank out *and regaining my previous skill levels* tanks are good, they are underpowered granted, but its only a very good tank pe or monk that beat me now, and i have to say, my posts in other threads, while warranted and true, should have been phrased better.
The only problem i have with my tank now is, lack of variety, i use a CS for PVP, thats it, sure i got a moonstirker malediction doombeamer, but they suck, it doesnt take a great deal of inteligence to realise yout gonna pwn yourself with em too, they're reserved only for upcoming Opwars, right now tanks have got 1 pvp worthy weapon, speedgun is ok, but the stamina hit from it makes it unviable.
Give tanks more variety, yes.
Give AOE weapons a ROF boost, no.
Dont get me wrong tanks are still very underpowered, in fact :lol: my pistol spy beat one of my best mates tanks.............see the problem? and he uses a similair setup to me, so he's certainly not shit.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Actually
I think I'll add - If Tanks are getting a Reduction in STA usage of weapons can PEs have roughly the same reduction?
My PE can't even run and fire two clips of Lib without runnin outta breath, same goes for BlackSun o_O
Heh... :P
Pistols don't drain your stamina, it's only the running that does. Tanks have the running AND losing 10 stamina every time a burst starts.
JustIn_Case
13-11-03, 14:09
Originally posted by Scikar
Pistols don't drain your stamina, it's only the running that does. Tanks have the running AND losing 10 stamina every time a burst starts.
Wrong, pistols do drain stamina. Liberator drains alot even.
Originally posted by JustIn_Case
Wrong, pistols do drain stamina. Liberator drains alot even.
I swear I never noticed any difference between running normally and running whilst firing. Surely it's not very serious though, specially compared to rifles. And I don't find rifles stamina drain too bad at all. But then I am a tank. :p
stamina drain...
hc tank... rifle pe....pistol pe....
pistols do have stamina drain but its nothing compared to the drain on gatlin cannon
oh, YES!!!
Please be an AoE flamer.....God yes! And maybe TL120 swinging ballses!!!!!!!!!11 Yes!
If you run out of stamina, put more points into it. Simple. That's what it's there for....:rolleyes:
Like 2 new rares.... wooo
Hopefully not another useless tazer, but a big gun Gakakakakkakakakakakakakakaka.
w00tage new toys for meh tankie :D
Ok let me re-iterate my earlier point for you guys cos i'm not sure people are getting it...
I want RoF increased insanely for AOE weapons... so it will fire all of that clip in one burst doing tremendous amounts of damage. Witha downside of a long reload time (20-30 seconds was not literal and only a suggestion, I said u can still switch weapons after you've fired. As long as the time for reload prevents you from using the cannon until it's ready again).
-----
On a side note my little experiment worked...
When I posted this poll I thought that if I don't have the question or the answers in the poll itself giving bland options such as yes, no and don't care... people would have to read what I said before voting.
Anyway look at the numbers of views in this topic and the number of votes. Just goes to show how many people actually read what people say here and/or give a fuck. thankyou to everyone who did vote and comment BTW.
Oh and big thanks to Callash for the little update :)
Rare Flamer!!!11oneone
I can't wait until I get an artifact capped one of those babies. :D
I'm a little less excited about this one. I don't really understand having another rare plasma cannon that's only 5 TL's under the CS. From what I've seen the CS is still superior (it should be with the extra 5 TL's). The only thing that might interest me is if the new plasma wave mods add some variety that CS's don't have (poison mod maybe?). Anyway, I'd much wanted to have the RARE GATLIN CANNON OVER THIS!!! :(
Rah I R Teh win teh poll!!!!!!11111111oneoneoneone
Anyone else got sumthin to say befor I let this poll die teh death?
@ Mortice
They would have to change a bit of NC for that to even work.
As it is now (Or when i played (2 months ago)) You could hit reload, change weapon, empty that weapon, hit reload then change back and you would even have to spend the time reloading (Did that make senseo_O ) So the high reload rate would easily be avoided.
Though i do like the idea of "Swarm Rocket Launchers"
Fire 6 rockets in 3 secs and then imobilize you for 5 secs? (Let the flaming begin):lol:
- Napalm (Like big radioactive rubber pants in my veins)
Originally posted by Napalm82
[BAs it is now (Or when i played (2 months ago)) You could hit reload, change weapon, empty that weapon, hit reload then change back and you would even have to spend the time reloading (Did that make senseo_O ) So the high reload rate would easily be avoided.[/B]
Good tactic for duels. Run out of CS ammo, click to reload and then switch to some spell real quick and when you hear the reload sound end switch back to your CS. :)
hehehe nice one Napalm.
I did mention about they would have to fix the reloading bug. As it stands you can just select anoither weapon while it reloads and the next time you select back its primed and ready to go. Doesn;t sound like much but it takes a little time for cannons to reload as opposed to rifles/pistols.
Sir ramic hobbs
27-11-03, 18:49
For your information kindly i dont know if it has been mentioned in the post but the 2 new tank rares are ravager (rare flamer) and Devourer (rare plasma wave)
Originally posted by Sir ramic hobbs
For your information kindly i dont know if it has been mentioned in the post but the 2 new tank rares are ravager (rare flamer) and Devourer (rare plasma wave)
you didnt read the thread did you ? :rolleyes:
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