View Full Version : Worried about TH, TG, MB etc getting better defences..
I have a real sinking feeling that the whining my pay off, and TH MB and TG may get improved defences. Heres my reasons for why I think this is bad:
1) people complain I always have a ppu shoved up my ass. Like to know why? Because I would hit TH, own, and have fun. Then, after a few days, NoNo the ppu showed up constantly, and ruined my fun. I was always alone, but he had to come ppu 5 guys anyway to get me out. So, i started bringing ppus too. So, thank nono for why I always have a ppu. Now, you think 100/100 bots shooting pkers will make them bring less ppus or MORE ppus?
2) How many times have I owned TH for hours on end? zero? I come, I kill a lot of people, then get bored and leave, or im driven off. I know it takes you FA CM, or TG 3 - 1 odds but eventually you do it... so wheres the problem?
3) What about MY fun? I, and other pker need places to pk... if theres bots spammed all over, or cm guardss or whatever, what am I supopst to do for fun? what do other pkers do for fun? What about the FA, TG, CM who have FUN defending their HQs instead of being pussies about it? what will they do when nobody can raid anymore?
4) You compain tradeskillers cant use the place. What about making apts worth something other then storing techs? buy a bunch of parts lube etc with a buddy guarding you, take it to apt, and tradeskill there your regulars will know where to find you, and you can advetise over trade and faction.
Thats pretty much it. I just think KK should heavly consider improving hq defences, I dont know about other people, but CM, TG, and TH guards hurt like hell... and thats with capped force resist and defelctor. I dont think its fair to dump down tons of guards in these places.
At VERY least, give the guards a LONG respawn time, and im talking like 30 mins to an hour. At least then,m we can wipe out the npcs and have even odds to fight in.
A last point, just for TH. Something people dont realise, is at MB, I dont have to pk much inside... neither does anyone. most of the action happens outside MB and TG. theres a lot of hunters in the area, we kill em, and the defenders come out like bees in a hive... but TH, its desolite outside. we HAVE to pk inside,cause theres nothing and nobody outside. So riddling the place with turrets and bots inside is not fair to FA enemies.
ABANDON SHIP INCOMING EGO ABOUT TO CRASH LAND INTO US !!!!1111
Ya more carebear shit are you surprised? Almost everyone playing this game wants to see it go down the fucking drain because its boring as shit to play as a carebear.
No guards, no safezones, no defenses...who needs them? Carebears do because they got no skills. Its ruining the game, one carebear change at a time.
Gotterdammerung
12-11-03, 02:24
Someone else had posted someplace else a comparason of TH, MB & TG security
MB has 28 guards
TG has 17
TH has 6
Everyplace except TH has safe zones. Things will change. You'll need to find a way to adapt or go someplace else. My personal opinion is that all 3 of those places usually have so few people around them and whomever may actually be in there is most likely a new character, that pk'ing there isn't much of a challenge for anyone.
And if this thread is to continue, please lets keep the "Clash of the Titanic Ego's" to a minimum.
erm, where are the safezones in MB and TG?
Originally posted by Spex
erm, where are the safezones in MB and TG?
your apartments :p they have coppers in the walls :lol:
on jupiter both mb and tg are full of people with their own trade skillers etc everything we never goto nc for anything.
cm raid tg and tg raid mb both ways round its the factions who are at home in these places responsibility to defend their spot NOT the guard bots if tg complain about getting raided
perhaps they should start hanging out there instead of p1 and so would be available to defend the place.
and if fa complain about th getting raided perhaps they should keep their shit asses in th rather than in p1 and defend the place.
its not a matter of security bots its a matter of incapable players complaining.
the same reason hybrids are overnerfed incapable players whining
yeah i get the feeling from one of the GMs posts that the TH situation is going to change in terms of ease of PKing in there.
im sure Tech haven does get raided a lot, but so does the MB, now the MB has guards, but its not like theres loads of them, sure they do decent damage but what stops the pkers is the various runners around, at the MB you have CMs who are large faction and tangent who also large faction then other small factions, but there are a lot ofpeople around to aid against the pkers.
you go to TG, its defended by TG and on saturn anyway TG has most of the major name PvPers so are fully capable of defending TG on there own, but then there are also the odd crahnite and FA who hang around in the area hunting.
TG like MB attracts people because there are good hunting grounds in the areas, just outside MB is a whole area of warbys, J02 another good sector of people.
TG has decent hunting out side its base, then a lot of mobs at grant mine.
so always there is people to defend against the PKer.
TH is diffrent as Vet says you have to go inside to find people to fight.
and there is nothing outside the base on a 1 sector distance that would make people hunt there.
make some better hunting around the area and people will hunt there, and not those crappy hoverbots, its not like people hunt them really.
i think they should change the TH security so it is more mobile, maybe change the damage type since it is lame atm, but adding more is not the solution.
if FA was the most popular faction no-one whould be saying theres a problem, but as they are under staffed on the runner front, it seems like there is a big whole in there security.
make it more attractive for runners to go there, not make it a fortress, so that pkers have no chance.
if a pker started whining saying that say TG is to hard to PK at, they would get laughed at toldto fuck off whatever.
but cos its you people getting pkd all the threads come out saying give TH more security etcetc.
you gotta remember theres 2 sides to the story.
make it to hard and you kill of the Pker.
no bad guys mean less fun
You would make a better point if you didn't exaggerate. I can't believe someone with a resist setup capable of withstanding 3 CS clips is seriously hurt by TG guards. Not only do TG guards in fact do very little damage, they also very rarely fire at all. Remember the little child's phrase? "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Likewise, "Last warning. Get out of here NOW!" doesn't do a great deal of damage, does it?
[TgR]KILLER
12-11-03, 02:38
vet... come back to Pluto.. play as FA for a day or 2.. and i think u'll changed your mind..
the last 2 days.. we'v almost been camped @ 24/7 1 clan leaves the next one just comes.. TT BD CS.. i think they made up a timesheme or something lol.. we'v lost for a fat 2 / 2.5 mil on stuff last 2 days..
howcome ? well FA has about 20 active ppl.. if we'r lucky we got 10 ppl on @ the same time.. useually less.. and we'v got 20 ppl camping TH @ some points.. see a problem there ?
QuantumDelta
12-11-03, 02:41
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
MB has 28 guards
TG has 17
TH has 6
lol, compare the attack power of those NPCs too :/
[TgR]KILLER
12-11-03, 02:43
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
lol, compare the attack power of those NPCs too :/
u know.. tonight a PP PE was leveling dex.. on TH bots.. he just stoot here with 2 bots shooting him without armor without buffs and he was dmg boosted.. and he just outhealed them lol..
yes... thats what im saying. Im more afriad of faction guards then a tank with CS or a PE with pain easer. CS does around 60, pain easer does 40 if all 3 hit, and faction guards WITH ppu buffs tear me up.
Instead of increasing TH dfences to that of TG/MB, why not DECREASE them all down to 10 or so? Its up to the players to defend THIER hq. If they cant... die
Safezones in TG and mb? where exaclty? you mean apts?
If tg, th, and MB get actual safe ZONES, I may just leave. And keep saying adapt or leave, great attitude. How many people do we have now compaired to the pre tech part nerf, cave nerfs (remeber when good old stormy respawned over and over? nobody hunts gaya mines anymore) sl hits, and locked grs? We are the ones playing, and we keep telling KK what NOT to do in order not to lose players. DONT nerf droprate. They do, huge amount of people leave. DONT nerf lib and other pistols, they do, people leave. DONT lock GR's They do, people leave. again and again. Yes, keep doing the bad changes, and everyone will find a new game.
If anyone who doesnt think the bots hurt wants a duel, we can have one, and you can see the damage I take. Im telling you, the bots hurt ME a lot.
The reason why people want security is that noobs and low level chars can level in peace and tradeskillers can do there thing, not to stop raiding which can be fun for both sides.
If "uber pkers" like yourself stopped killing those who cant fight back or can fight back but have no chance people wouldnt want or need an increase in security but the way it is now with indiscriminant killing the extra security and if your going to start another whine thread dont start it about something that you caused yourself again.
[TgR]KILLER
12-11-03, 02:59
vet if u can just trow FA some capped players we'll defend TH.. we always defend TH.. but when outnumberd 1/2 or 1/3 thats kinda hard.. and nobody wanna join FA because they or have to much fun raiding it or don't wanna get ganked every 5 min.. and if the faction guards in TH are doing that much dmg to ya.. well they don't hurt me eighter lol.. sure the ones @ TG do but not in TH..
sanityislost
12-11-03, 03:01
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Someone else had posted someplace else a comparason of TH, MB & TG security
MB has 28 guards
TG has 17
TH has 6
Everyplace except TH has safe zones. Things will change. You'll need to find a way to adapt or go someplace else. My personal opinion is that all 3 of those places usually have so few people around them and whomever may actually be in there is most likely a new character, that pk'ing there isn't much of a challenge for anyone.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
sweet like the sound of that its about time th got some upgrades:D
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
your apartments :p they have coppers in the walls :lol:
NO NO NOT IN THE MB CLAN APTS :eek:
trigger hurt
12-11-03, 04:10
Originally posted by hinch
on jupiter both mb and tg are full of people with their own trade skillers etc everything we never goto nc for anything.
cm raid tg and tg raid mb both ways round its the factions who are at home in these places responsibility to defend their spot NOT the guard bots if tg complain about getting raided
perhaps they should start hanging out there instead of p1 and so would be available to defend the place.
and if fa complain about th getting raided perhaps they should keep their shit asses in th rather than in p1 and defend the place.
its not a matter of security bots its a matter of incapable players complaining.
the same reason hybrids are overnerfed incapable players whining
If it is the player charactars resposibility to defend their own city, why are stormbots and copbots being placed all over the city zones to oust the evil TG's?
they arent tehre for tg although that will be a nice side effect at a later date theyre there for defence against doy invasions a-la story line.
theres a perfectly sane reason no where outside of nc and doy should have defence only its a long explaniation and i cnt be arsed to explain it.
anyway personally pking at mb or th is boring as shit as theyre always empty on all servers
so i goto tg to pk just camp the canyon.
Originally posted by trigger hurt
If it is the player charactars resposibility to defend their own city, why are stormbots and copbots being placed all over the city zones to oust the evil TG's?
good point and what do you people expect tradeskillers to do? poke you to death, construct you to death, research you to death? I think it's quiet obvious how sad TH security is, come on striker, you know how bad it sucks :P
My simple view:
TH defenses need major upping.
Vet needs to stop finding minute things to moan about.
o_O
KRIMINAL99
12-11-03, 05:56
Oh please stop flattering yourself... I don't know who you are but most likely you are one of those lamers that runs to their apt as soon as more than one 0/2 n00b shows up and then steps out for 2 seconds and goes back up... then claims it takes "20" people to kill me just because there are 20 people there (all of which would probably wipe the floor with you 1v1) pissed that you are killing the n00bs.
I don't have anything against pking its just the people who always talk sh#t (which takes fun out of pvp) and have no concept of reality that get on my nerves.
Ok enough flaming... As far as the guards the important part is the guards are balanced between factions. As long as we are not playing on NEPTUNE and all the factions have to trade in their hq then TG should have good guards. (After TG are banned from city at least)
ResurgencE
12-11-03, 08:38
cm raid tg and tg raid mb both ways round its the factions who are at home in these places responsibility to defend their spot NOT the guard bots if tg complain about getting raided
TG raids MB. CM raids TG. They both have similar defenses. Absolutely fine.
TT raids TH. Where does FA go to hit back? What about OUR fun, hmm? You folks get all the safe zones, and to add insult to injury, the copbots are all 120/120, a level that isnt even required for an area in which you cant even unholster your weapon.
If you really do think you're elite, then vote to have all safe zones removed from the city if you are a Tangent runner, and nerf your defenses to OUR level.
Do this, and ill fill your noggin with plasma to help make up for the lack of a brain.
Originally posted by VetteroX
We are the ones playing, and we keep telling KK what NOT to do in order not to lose players. DONT nerf droprate. They do, huge amount of people leave. DONT nerf lib and other pistols, they do, people leave. DONT lock GR's They do, people leave. again and again. Yes, keep doing the bad changes, and everyone will find a new game
Tho I dont feel inclined to agree about any pking aspect (because id really have to skill up a lot to go anywhere...(no madskillz see)) you got a really valid point about annoying changes like that.
Just get the feeling we arent listened to. IMO, I hated those changes, and thought they are all useless for nothing more than cheap, boring timesinks.
Originally posted by g0rt
No guards, no safezones, no defenses...who needs them? Carebears do because they got no skills. Its ruining the game, one carebear change at a time.
Replace 'no skills' with 'no inclinination or time to powerlevel' and that might be a little more accurate.
Why is 'carebear' becoming synomonous with 'fair'?
Vet, I got not sympathy for you, your previous whine thread showed quite clearly how you rape TH and now your fun is going to give way to someone else for a change (the good of the many etc etc). Reap what you sow and all that.
Botton line if 'skill' was an issue here, you guys would appreciate the challenge of some harder guards - the fact that you dont is telling enough......
This is about the dumbest thing ever.
Im so tired of city factions raiding TG an TH. the guys i the least mind raiding TG and FA is CM why ? Because you can raid them BACK.
please oh please let us raid them back. Plant the damn clan aps in the faction hq's so raiding the Hq actually means something.
rant
[insert various flames here ] Vet is ( mods edit this if you must but im still right) an egotisticall smartass.
For anything he says about raiding too be remotely true Remove all safezones in the citys and make the factions hq the only safezones. then lets see him slink from door too door With no copbots and shitty guards too help him ( of wait the plasma shooting freaks are some of the best guards ingame atm:rolleyes:) .
Jeesus this smuck really needs to try being in a faction THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE RAIDED:rolleyes:.
/rant
@hinch whatever another statement from a nda trying to annoy tgs.
If tg, th, and MB get actual safe ZONES, I may just leave
TG does not need an upgrade
MB does not need an upgrade
TH REALLY REALLY needs an upgrade
prays they upgrade it so whining cockmeister leaves forever.
Andy
TH get raided way to much so does MB... but it has nothing to do with guards it to do with content :)
My clan HQ has guards, never gets raided and I'm sure it would get defended if it did :)
TH needs more guards than less if it is to keep up with other HQs but i agree with Vet that Factions should have to guard there own HQ more.
And who was that guy that didn't know who Vet as? I thought every1 knew that :D
[TgR]KILLER
12-11-03, 11:24
hmm thought of something yesterday just as i was going to bed...
what u see if u GR to MB ? right 2 CM guards.. what u get if u GR to TG ? right a load of TG guards. and what u see if u GR to TH.. right.. nothing.. not a guard in the total zone.. u'll just run to a core level 3 and wait for si and there u go.. we need some guards in TH2 @ the GR's.. and some that can move.. and do some dmg.. not some twat 4 legged stationary turrets that do fuck all dmg..
ow and birkoff.. u din't protect your faction HQ that well.. i'v been getting some players symps up to switch to TH in there for a few hours.. never saw a cs around ;)
the whole thing is.. we live in TH we got our appy's there.. if we step out 1 appy and switch to another we'r getting our asses blown up.. u don't have that in like a CS or TT HQ.. right ?
WOuld be kewl, if like if u GR to your home u get 0 SI :)
Originally posted by stigmata
TG does not need an upgrade
MB does not need an upgrade
TH REALLY REALLY needs an upgrade
prays they upgrade it so whining cockmeister leaves forever.
Andy
What he said.
Maybe even another "REALLY" for good measure.
Elroy Jetson
12-11-03, 11:43
Come on ppl you read the numbers 6 frickin guards in all of TH and they are not even in sec 2 wich is where most of the noob killing goes on. Its just rediculous. When i had a next runner , i got my ass handed to me by TG guards they were not something you wanted to hang out around and they would shoot soon. Mb guards talk a little more , they don't hurt as much but there is an ass load of them in a small areas. and in key places like the GR ROOM ' and tg's got some where ? By the GR!
I'm not knocking the desition to go with a city faction , but you must realize how spineless you look coming to TH to pk. A merc invation of TG or vise versa , these are honerable, revegable raids. You have no anarchy zone out your front door. You have nothing to defend. I would love to see the guards in plaza turn into TH bots and the no weapon rule dropped for a couple of days. You guys would spend your days like some FA noobs. sitting in thier ap not being able to come out cause 20 TT (or BD depending on the time) are running around TH . I've seen bigger groups of TT and BD come to TH to pk than i've seen show up at an op war. 8| I'm not even joking.
IMO its not pking its griefing, and unless KK takes measures to stop it or at least make it more "challenging" it will countinue to dmg the game.:eek: :eek:
enigma_b17
12-11-03, 13:20
lol & lol
aye, i agree with elroy, come fa for a few days and c how long u last
Originally posted by Birkoff
WOuld be kewl, if like if u GR to your home u get 0 SI :)
That would be a great idea. Or have it that enemy factions to the zone get more SI then normal as well.
May I remind you carebears that FA is recommended for advanced players only or something when you start a new character. Why should you get more guards? If its too much trouble for you and you dont like getting PKd, move to another faction.
Any 0/2 runner that knows what he's doing can walk to NC, you've got all the safe zones, newbie levelling spots, and trade areas you can wish for there. Why should the PKers be punished just because people cant stick up for themselves? It's our game as much as it is yours.
If you had an exam comming up and you weren't sure if you were going to pass it or not, you wouldn't ask them to make it easier for you, you'd go away and study more. So why dont you get some backup and stick up for yourselves instead of asking for the game to be made easier for you...
If you want to put it like exams, it's more like you've got an exam coming up, but you have to get 70% to pass and everyone else needs 40%, while the city factions automatically pass. :rolleyes:
I hate how everyone assumes that everyone is some capped character with all the 5 slot rares they need. "sk1llziz" have nothing to do with it either.
The fact is this. Nearly all the people that pk in TH either pk newbies, or GR camp. Yeah, big challenge there. More like extreme cowardice. Add to that there simply aren't enough FA to defend TH 24/7 from TT and BD. Not to mention that anyone who dies there drops belts. If the tables were turned and FA and TG were raiding the shit out of BD or TT after the guards there were crippled, I can guarantee you they'd all be whining like little babies about how unfair it is.
Defenses need to be pumped up big time and fast. How much longer until these top secret defense plans go into effect? Its taking far too long.
Finally, anyone who uses the "carebear" term to justify their griefing needs to quit the game and leave for good. It won't happen, but I can dream.
If you want to put it like exams, it's more like you've got an exam coming up, but you have to get 70% to pass and everyone else needs 40%, while the city factions automatically pass
@ Gonk PWNED
I'd like to tell you a story if I may....
Last night, word comes in that a spy and PE are attacking TH. So, me and clanmate genrep there, wait for SI to wear off. Then, we come down, twat the spy (after she stealthed about like a coward) and cant find the PE. Next thing we know, theres AT LEAST 2 spys, PE, APU, 2PPUS, Tank. So understandably, I lose that one. We call for reinforcements. 4 people online. Great. So we sit in apartments with the TT's at the bottom and chat cos there's SOD ALL ELSE WE CAN DO!
If pkers REALLY like to pk, if they REALLY want a challenge, be FA. Show us your "L33T" skills. We obviously can't win 1-2 odds. And I wonder how many would leave their security to play a harder game? None, thats how many.
There was probably more in their clan than in our entire faction. Is it my fault there aren't many in FA?? No. So quit this "defend your own place" rant and understand. Maybe if faction guards were determined by how many people there are in your faction?
That would be fair.
And Vet, if you "own" people so much, why do the TH guards do so much damage to you? Noobs take them on regularly and win. You got something seriously wrong there....
Any 0/2 runner that knows what he's doing can walk to NC, you've got all the safe zones, newbie levelling spots, and trade areas you can wish for there. Why should the PKers be punished just because people cant stick up for themselves? It's our game as much as it is yours.
Dude - :lol:
TG's can go on rampant killing sprees in MB easy - though they have to be careful occasionally because of the bulk guard spawn.
CA's can go on rampant killing sprees in TG easy - Assuming anyone was ever there. They too have to be cautious due to the massive spawn of guards.
FA's get raped, because the fucking TH security drones are pathetic in terms of damage output - and whoever designed thier spawn placement direly needs to be manraped by a Yeti.
I've only seen them in TH 1 - Am I delusional?
Anyway, the idea is to get factions OUT of fucking neocron, its fucking gay when other factions run to neocron to do their leveling when in reality they shouldn't be there and they can do it in their own faction spot.
Anyway - FA's supposed to be full of disillusioned scientists who left all the massive neocron corperations... Is that bot the best they can come up with to protect themself?
I know at least on Pluto - where one can count the number of FA runners with their hands and one foot; they need better protection because they're the sex toy of 3 LARGE clans.
I'm suprised that player run buisnesses like Phoenix Ltd. have managed to stay afloat.
@ Lanigrav - well put.
Originally posted by Scikar
If you want to put it like exams, it's more like you've got an exam coming up, but you have to get 70% to pass and everyone else needs 40%, while the city factions automatically pass. :rolleyes:
Thats cos when you pick FA its like taking a harder exam, it even says so and thats what gonk was saying. City factions are for begginers FA, MB and TG are meant to be for experienced players that can handle the pace.
Whats there to handle?
They all run to Neocron to level anyway
o_O
Originally posted by Lecko
Is it my fault there aren't many in FA?? No. So quit this "defend your own place" rant and understand.
Why dont you hire some mercs or get your TG allies to help out?
Originally posted by Gonk
Why dont you hire some mercs or get your TG allies to help out?
Gonk, people only care about thier own backyard.
:rolleyes:
I know Pluto FA tried both over time...
And the defenders wouldn't come defend.
Anyway dude, killing nooblet FA's in their unguarded faction city is like kicking a fucking cripple.
He knows he's down.
You know he's down.
but you kick him anyway because you know no one will help.
o_O
But the thing is, its not our fault if they cant convince people to help them. They should maybe offer the mercs more money, or try and be a bit more diplomatic about asking TG for help, or even make an effort to recruit more FAs. This is whats required, an in game solution, instead of pleading for the game to be made easier for them.
Theres always been that amount of guards, its not a new thing, and it seems to me that people are only complaining about it recently due to the low number of FA (this may be a result of low player numbers server-wide). In the past when there were serious FA clans with a serious presence, nobody complained. So stick up for yourselves instead of asking for the game to be made easier, people managed it before.
Originally posted by Gonk
But the thing is, its not our fault if they cant convince people to help them. They should maybe offer the mercs more money, or try and be a bit more diplomatic about asking TG for help, or even make an effort to recruit more FAs. This is whats required, an in game solution, instead of pleading for the game to be made easier for them.
Theres always been that amount of guards, its not a new thing, and it seems to me that people are only complaining about it recently due to the low number of FA (this may be a result of low player numbers server-wide). In the past when there were serious FA clans with a serious presence, nobody complained. So stick up for yourselves instead of asking for the game to be made easier, people managed it before.
No, there used to be security bots in TH Sec-2. They were removed, seemingly for no reason. Now FA want them back. BD get evil guards with laser rifles, TT, CA etc all get those plasma pistol guards which HURT, CM get those gat rifle guards which aren't too friendly either, TG guards aren't too bad, yet in the main part of TH there's absolutely nothing? It's not a case of say CM asking for even more guards spawned because they can't cope, it's a case of FA asking for more than 0 guards.
How the fuck are we supposed to stick up for ourselves if we don't have enough players or large clans to do so? That's like asking us to go fight the Alamo and complaining why we don't win. Hell, even the Alamo had better defenses than TH does now.
Why dont you hire some mercs or get your TG allies to help out?
I don't know what the situation is on the other servers, but on Saturn that's just not possible. Hire the mercs and TG instantly become our enemies, compounding our problems tenfold. Break the NAP with CM and we'll get help from TG, but CM will be on our asses as well. FA is basically stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Another idea would be to fight fair instead of GR/n00b killing, or having 5 or so people take on an equal number of people instead of just one guy. I know, I know...perish the thought.
Originally posted by Scikar
No, there used to be security bots in TH Sec-2. They were removed, seemingly for no reason. Now FA want them back. BD get evil guards with laser rifles, TT, CA etc all get those plasma pistol guards which HURT, CM get those gat rifle guards which aren't too friendly either, TG guards aren't too bad, yet in the main part of TH there's absolutely nothing? It's not a case of say CM asking for even more guards spawned because they can't cope, it's a case of FA asking for more than 0 guards.
Even after the removal of the bots, there have still been clans that have managed to defend TH adequately. Also, there is more than 0 guards in TH 2, what about those turrets at the top of the ramp :lol:
I was going to say, didn't FA have a much larger presence in the past (at least on Saturn)? Its important not to mix up a need for increased defenses at TH (which I agree with to a certain extent) with a low FA population (which like any faction, comes and goes over time)
While this could be the reason for the calls for guard fixes, is it not also true that pking incidents of hunters has gone up generally over the last few months? I seem to get attacked much more than when I was first levelling up in the wastes earlier in the year. I would also put this down to a natural increase in capped/high level players over time, which eventually leads many to raid enemy factions to pk out of boredom / revenge.
What do you all think - have raids increased on the 3 main areas on all the servers in the last few months, thus, exacerbating the already weak defenses of the Tech Haven?
Alex The Great
12-11-03, 16:12
More Guards Means bigger Raiding Partys Your Fucked No Matter What.
At least more guards would mean they would have to put more effort into their raids, instead of just pking with impunity.
I don't think TH should be some sort of impenetrible fortress that no one could ever think of conquering, I just think that added defenses would really balance things out compared to the other 3 major cities.
Personally i think anyone who feels the guards situation in TH is currently ok is a coward, the faction sucks....and has sucked since the powerhouse clans left long ago. (Saturn)
saiyan are dead, NAT went TG, Fuzzy's are inactive, have i missed anyone ?
Now the highly skilled and well planned raids from not one factions but 5 factions...and you expect them not to complain, as i remember on pluto the situation is even worse with 1 maybe 2 clans on the server.
And all the "great" players whinge when the helpless FA's ask for some turrets to bring their base in line with the others.
THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR SAFEZONES
THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR IT TO HAVE 28 GUARDS LIKE MB
THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR IT TO HAVE 20 GUARDS LIKE TG
They simply want some guards/turrets/bots whatever to placed in and around TH2, remove the current spiderbots and replace them with afew Y guards like on venus...their not uber they have a shite weapon but they are less of a pushover than the current disgrace of a guard.
And finally @ Vet. i have never heard someone so full of shit in my entire life, you go TH becuase its fucking easy.
why dont you try MB or TG and stay their for "and hour or two or until you get bored or driven off"
i guarentee you wll be driven off in less than 15 minutes.
Andy
Originally posted by VetteroX
1) people complain I always have a ppu shoved up my ass. Like to know why? Because I would hit TH, own, and have fun. Then, after a few days, NoNo the ppu showed up constantly, and ruined my fun. I was always alone, but he had to come ppu 5 guys anyway to get me out. So, i started bringing ppus too. So, thank nono for why I always have a ppu. Now, you think 100/100 bots shooting pkers will make them bring less ppus or MORE ppus?
don't name names. no one in this thread mentioned your chars name, and i also notice you tend not to either.
you complain that TH should be defended by FA, and then complain that a PPU is there defending TH, ruining "my fun". can you spell "irony"?
i note 5 uses of the word "I" here.
Originally posted by VetteroX
2) How many times have I owned TH for hours on end? zero? I come, I kill a lot of people, then get bored and leave, or im driven off. I know it takes you FA CM, or TG 3 - 1 odds but eventually you do it... so wheres the problem?
contrary to what you may believe the problem is not you personally, but the fact that ANYone can walk into TH and do the same thing. particulary when they have a PPU in tow, lol. the considerations as to whether TH security needs upping is a general one, not one aimed specifically at any single "PK".
i note 5 uses of the word "I". again.
Originally posted by VetteroX
3) What about MY fun? I, and other pker need places to pk... if theres bots spammed all over, or cm guardss or whatever, what am I supopst to do for fun? what do other pkers do for fun? What about the FA, TG, CM who have FUN defending their HQs instead of being pussies about it? what will they do when nobody can raid anymore?
this is my personal favourite. again you allude to "my fun" on no less than 2 occasions. this game was not solely designed with you, personally, in mind. and to answer the question, there are many other things to do for fun, and many other places that a BD faction member can find enemies. last i looked you have enemies other than FA. try cycrow lab, gabanium mine, indeed any of the popular canyon hunting areas. you'll find that most of the areas on the map that are that yellowish-green colour will/may contain enemies for you to hunt.
Originally posted by VetteroX
4) You compain tradeskillers cant use the place. What about making apts worth something other then storing techs? buy a bunch of parts lube etc with a buddy guarding you, take it to apt, and tradeskill there your regulars will know where to find you, and you can advetise over trade and faction.
that is a good idea. no one suggested TH should have safezones, or even copbots, just better defense. i would recommend your idea to TH tradeskillers even if there were Y Reps guarding the place as on venus.
Originally posted by VetteroX
[sniip]So riddling the place with turrets and bots inside is not fair to FA enemies.
again, i would point out that you have enemies all over the map. take time to explore and you will discover the common hunting grounds, hehe. yes - of course you knew that, i was being ironic. but it eludes me as to why you can't be a little more creative in the places you chose to hunt. and if that is already the case, you really have no grounds for complaint.
in total, you mentioned yourself, or your fun, about 22 times that i could count. i should like to point out that your continued fun depends far more on the continued fun of others, rather than features of the game that you derive fun from, but most others do not. therein balance lies.
so called "carebearish" rules only ever seem to be applied when the VAST majority of players are hurting for some reason, and only a very few are enjoying it.
if i were you, and i was a regular solo(ish) raider of TH, i would think to myself "hey ho - this is fun while it lasts, but DANG it's so fooking easy it's not gonna last long". so the world turns.
in relation to Sels post.
a few months ago on saturn FA were proberbly the biggest or near enough the biggest faction on the server, having at least 4 or 5 major clans.
the problem now has only appeared because a large number of those Fas are either in another faction or left game, leaving only a few runners to defend.
also i think a major problem has been the arrival of the PPU monk, before them there wasnt anyone to make the pkers godly, now unless the FA defenders are organised and have there own PPU its gonna end up a slaughter of the FA.
before that the Pkers could be stopped cos no god like ability giving class was on there back.
i think they need to replace the bots TH have atm cos they are utterly useless, they barely move and are slow to shoot, err or is that the merc guards im thinking off:p
If FA was the most popular faction would be we seeing this thread, no i dont think so.
also on the TH has less guards, the MB might have the most, but there easy to avoid, more so when most of the killing is done outside.
its easy to run past the guards at the genrep, normally the psi vender area is a decent place to stop off, then theres the hunting zone areas where you can head into when the guards become a bit much.
what you going to want next, MB guards at the bunker, maybe a increase of the guards at the CRP.
maybe a few more bots in TH would be ok, but if you increase it to much it wont be fun.
and once the pking stops, your gonna have a lot of bored runners and i dont just mean the pkers. as a merc i used to wait for the TG pkers to come, was great fun hunting them dueling them on the hill outside MB camping the lifts waiting for them to come out for some more etcetc, but despite the guards at the MB its still easy to PK.
if they increase the bots in TH which they will do, i want to see done right, not over kill like some FAs would have it done.
oh and remove the TG guards there annoying,spamming my chat screen:lol:
Well if you click my idea on meh sig, its an idea that will make everything almost good, a happy medium for tradeskillers and 1337 pkers. Except Ice Cream.
Originally posted by stigmata
Personally i think anyone who feels the guards situation in TH is currently ok is a coward, the faction sucks....and has sucked since the powerhouse clans left long ago. (Saturn)
saiyan are dead, NAT went TG, Fuzzy's are inactive, have i missed anyone ?
Smokin' Fools. ;)
Smokin' Fools is where a good chunk of the former Saiyans are now. Saiyan IS still around though, although not nearly at the capacity we used to be. We're aiming to become a pure tradeskilling clan, but the lack of clanless FA tradeskillers is putting a bit of a hamper on that (along with Sh0 not being on as much).
you also missed out EOE who used to be a good FA clan
Didn't NeoGen go FA as well?
The best thing you could do is get SupremeC to come back from Venus (assuming he hasn't quit altogether) and get Battle Tide up again.
Originally posted by Duder
Well if you click my idea on meh sig, its an idea that will make everything almost good, a happy medium for tradeskillers and 1337 pkers. Except Ice Cream.
Yeah, like that idea. I don't think as a tradeskiller I'd EVER contemplate running a business from my own apartment as there are too many idiots out there who would come and kill me or my clients. A safe zone would be good and may even revive TH, MB and TG as places for tradeskillers to trade.
I would prefer to see the defenses around the GR be beefed up a lot. So enemy factions coming in/out of the Genreps are seriously injured.
This is to stop the GRs being easy entrance into Tech Haven. To be honest locking the GRs against hostile factions would cut down the messing a lot and the more serious raiding parties would have to come in via the TH entrances.
Originally posted by Archeus
I would prefer to see the defenses around the GR be beefed up a lot. So enemy factions coming in/out of the Genreps are seriously injured.
This is to stop the GRs being easy entrance into Tech Haven. To be honest locking the GRs against hostile factions would cut down the messing a lot and the more serious raiding parties would have to come in via the TH entrances.
when ever i go killing at TH, which i admit is not that often as i find enemies allover themap, i always come through one of the entrances anyway
Originally posted by Archeus
I would prefer to see the defenses around the GR be beefed up a lot. So enemy factions coming in/out of the Genreps are seriously injured.
This is to stop the GRs being easy entrance into Tech Haven. To be honest locking the GRs against hostile factions would cut down the messing a lot and the more serious raiding parties would have to come in via the TH entrances.
Cue the complaining.... :lol:
Good idea tho. If we are such great techs, the first thing we'd do is block the GRs.
But then why should pkers have to walk? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ezza
when ever i go killing at TH, which i admit is not that often as i find enemies allover themap, i always come through one of the entrances anyway
Granted but a lot of the raids, they hug the genreps like a new born baby to its mothers teat. At least this way we can offer up a fight better and means they can't run away easily when we get a force into position to repel them.
It won't stop raids but will make them more intresting.
in all honesty i dont really think more guards at the genrep would do that much.
take TG i can genrep in and then run to the corner past the guards and im safe to wait for the synap to run out.
MB just run past the guards and either head to the psi venders or go to therunner housing area, not much in the way of guards there.
so even if guards where stuck at genrep in TH, sure it might help a bit, but again pker runs past, and then proberbly down to the hunting zone to wait for synap to expire.
You need to add guards near the GRs and also lock the GRs to enemies. That way enemies have to run to get in in the first place, and if they try to GR out with low health after running away the guards will finish them off.
You put a massive Rail cannon (fires force/pierce/x-ray/heat/poison shell) facing the GR when they come in and another facing the exit area of the GR.
Don't want them to die if they can handle it, but softened up coming in and going out.
As much as I find Vettoroxs bleating comical, I don't want to see PK'ers removed. But I do want Tech Haven better defended. I want the casual gamer that says "Ooh I'm bored, lets just GR into TH and kill some people" gone. I don't mind a large scale raid where they are willing to stick around for a fight and don't cheat like some of the idiots we get.
Taking TG as your example. There is only one Genrep and you are on the low ground. It is easy for people to see you come in long before you can be a threat to them.
I can't remember the last time I saw a raid in Canyon that wasn't part of the storyline.
dunno about pluto but i know BD and CM raid TG, N30 what ever you think about his tactics is a regular BD raider of the TG
well i like the idea of TG,TH and MB GRs being locked. sept for a small problem with the MB GR. unlike TG and TH faction HQs. MB has the bunker sat outside its doorstep. now seeing as people currently b!tch about CRP. the TG and BD who level at the bunker with LEs in. are not gonna like that the only spawn GR near the bunker is gonna be off limits.
Originally posted by enablerbr
well i like the idea of TG,TH and MB GRs being locked. sept for a small problem with the MB GR. unlike TG and TH faction HQs. MB has the bunker sat outside its doorstep. now seeing as people currently b!tch about CRP. the TG and BD who level at the bunker with LEs in. are not gonna like that the only spawn GR near the bunker is gonna be off limits.
yeah but thats the point regardless of LE or not there still enemy they shouldnt be leveling at the bunker
N30 doesn't technically raid TG though, he wanders round on his TG alt until there's only low levels around, then he GRs into his TG apt on his tank, waits for synap, and comes out to kill them. As soon as he gets hit he runs back into his apt to heal. At least when Vet raids TH he sticks around to fight.
You do know that launchers spawn in OZ, and numerous other places on the map. Static spawns too.
Failing that TG/BD could just GR in from a nearby Outpost.
Archeus i'm CM on all servers.:p
i'm just pointing out that people will b!tch at MB GR lockdown like the currently b!tch about CRP GR lockdown.
Originally posted by Scikar
N30 doesn't technically raid TG though, he wanders round on his TG alt until there's only low levels around, then he GRs into his TG apt on his tank, waits for synap, and comes out to kill them. As soon as he gets hit he runs back into his apt to heal. At least when Vet raids TH he sticks around to fight.
i watched n30 kill around 10-15 FAs on his own at a fight once, and not low level, so we have differing opinions on that subject, but there you go your a freedom fighter where as im just a gangster;)
Originally posted by enablerbr
Archeus i'm CM on all servers.:p
i'm just pointing out that people will b!tch at MB GR lockdown like the currently b!tch about CRP GR lockdown.
If a TG complains about not being able to level at the bunker he doesn't deserve to be TG. ;)
@ Ezza: N30 has never been a problem for me in a fight, the only time he's ever killed me was when I FRE'd in the middle of a fight. Every other fight I've had with him has ended with him scurrying off to his apartment.
Originally posted by ezza
...but there you go your a freedom fighter where as im just a gangster;)
hmm.. are TG freedom fighters or Ganksters.:D
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 17:24
FA on saturn have a decent number of players. At the very least enough to defend against raids (which at most, from Templars is a ppu, a spy, and 3 tanks). When we fight NeoGen in op fights they seem to have a fair number of monks/tanks etc.
But what do you see in TH?
Jerry Maguire and the occasional high level character, maybe a bunch of tradeskilling spies, and some lowbies.
I agree Tech Haven needs some bots in sec-2, maybe 1 up top and 1 below in both the A genrep and the B genrep. Personally i see the faction guards as only being a discouragement to the lone runner or two.
When we raid TG canyon are the guards a problem? Not really. The difference is TG come to defend.
Your faction assistant (or whatever jerry is) openly states on faction chat for people to all just hide in their apartments until the PKers leave. Grow some balls, get the clans like NeoGen, who are active, to defend TH.
I agree they need a few more bots, but if they go overkill your just going to see the raiding parties get bigger and bigger and PPUs will almost always be there.
I've said it before, if TG go to TT hq to level etc. and we know about it, we organize and kill them or at the very least go and fight them.
We don't stand outside calling them meanies
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
Your faction assistant (or whatever jerry is) openly states on faction chat for people to all just hide in their apartments until the PKers leave.
lol umm shouldnt he be rallying the troops instead of cowering in their apartments
I've said it before, if TG go to TT hq to level etc. and we know about it, we organize and kill them or at the very least go and fight them.
We don't stand outside calling them meanies
you clearly dont play on saturn.
Andy
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 17:29
lol
We've kicked ABC Soup out recently
I've personally only known about it being done once and we did go kill them.
Originally posted by ezza
lol umm shouldnt he be rallying the troops instead of cowering in their apartments
I dont know but its possible that hes actually role playing the 'neutral pacifist scientist' that FA are supposed to be and encouraging the runners to follow suit (yes I know they have enemies but that really because people hate FA for one reason or another, not because FA started a problem with them)
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 18:15
so people can't roleplay as the insane psycho killer of all!?@
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
so people can't roleplay as the insane psycho killer of all!?@
yeah but there seem to be alot of people doing that most of the time
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 18:34
so? :P
KRIMINAL99
12-11-03, 18:39
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
so people can't roleplay as the insane psycho killer of all!?@
oh you can you just have to remake all your weapons and armour for everytime you die, you cant use rares since they would be lost really quickly, and since insane psycho killers dont hang out in groups thats going to be pretty often since ppus cant be killed without 3 people at least when they are not afk, and uh whatelse oh yeah everytime you find a way to succesfully do it anyways (and don't get bored out of your freaking mind rebuilding shit) then the volunteer staff will claim "your only doing it because its not enough of a challenge" (as if having everyone in the game against you alone isn't enough of a challenge and as if thats not the exact reason you ARE doing it) and then find some other way to nerf you that hasn't been thought of yet (Like placing a gazillion copbots everywhere so you can't sneak around or making MC5 a hunting zone) or misdirect KK into thinking its a problem so they nerf you and then still lie through their teeth that they are just trying to make it more of a challenge and not eliminate it.. (Since it was a major theme of the game since inception)
Hows that for a run-on sentence?
Anyways I said before that all the guards should be equal but on second thought I think they should just all be removed... I mean think about it:
They arent going to pvp a player and win because of skill. That is the job of other players. Either they will kill someone because they are wayy overpowered or there is too many of them (which ruins the fun of raiding hqs) or they really don't do much of anything. Either way they aren't going to add any fun challenge to anyone.
If people want to level up in safe zones they should play a city faction. But even then imo copbots should be removed and just have LE's be the only way of protecting newbies... Then every faction would tradeskill out of their hqs, and they would have to defend it to keep their production going.
Cryotchekk
12-11-03, 18:45
Originally posted by VetteroX
I have a real sinking feeling that the whining my pay off, and TH MB and TG may get improved defences. Heres my reasons for why I think this is bad:
1) people complain I always have a ppu shoved up my ass. Like to know why? Because I would hit TH, own, and have fun. Then, after a few days, NoNo the ppu showed up constantly, and ruined my fun. I was always alone, but he had to come ppu 5 guys anyway to get me out. So, i started bringing ppus too. So, thank nono for why I always have a ppu. Now, you think 100/100 bots shooting pkers will make them bring less ppus or MORE ppus?
2) How many times have I owned TH for hours on end? zero? I come, I kill a lot of people, then get bored and leave, or im driven off. I know it takes you FA CM, or TG 3 - 1 odds but eventually you do it... so wheres the problem?
3) What about MY fun? I, and other pker need places to pk... if theres bots spammed all over, or cm guardss or whatever, what am I supopst to do for fun? what do other pkers do for fun? What about the FA, TG, CM who have FUN defending their HQs instead of being pussies about it? what will they do when nobody can raid anymore?
4) You compain tradeskillers cant use the place. What about making apts worth something other then storing techs? buy a bunch of parts lube etc with a buddy guarding you, take it to apt, and tradeskill there your regulars will know where to find you, and you can advetise over trade and faction.
Thats pretty much it. I just think KK should heavly consider improving hq defences, I dont know about other people, but CM, TG, and TH guards hurt like hell... and thats with capped force resist and defelctor. I dont think its fair to dump down tons of guards in these places.
At VERY least, give the guards a LONG respawn time, and im talking like 30 mins to an hour. At least then,m we can wipe out the npcs and have even odds to fight in.
A last point, just for TH. Something people dont realise, is at MB, I dont have to pk much inside... neither does anyone. most of the action happens outside MB and TG. theres a lot of hunters in the area, we kill em, and the defenders come out like bees in a hive... but TH, its desolite outside. we HAVE to pk inside,cause theres nothing and nobody outside. So riddling the place with turrets and bots inside is not fair to FA enemies.
Dear Mr/Mss/Miss/Ms/Sir/Dr VettroX
You seem to advertise yourself as a pk'er, but yet you also seem afraid of the consequences. I have no intention of flaming or harassing you, but i feel compelled to ask if there 'pker' part of you is a need to kill those who cant fight back. I have heard that you (and a few others) who are just ego's on leg's who mostly kill people lower rank and stop when you hit -16 SL. From reading a thread you made a little while ago, you were talking about making a all pk clan on saturn (i think). This, at first, appealed to me but as soon as you said you were going to stop pking when you hit -16 made me feel if you are just a 'wannabe' pker. Now that i have read this post i have started to feel that you are.
Your's faithfully
God
Originally posted by 5150
I dont know but its possible that hes actually role playing the 'neutral pacifist scientist' that FA are supposed to be and encouraging the runners to follow suit (yes I know they have enemies but that really because people hate FA for one reason or another, not because FA started a problem with them)
Or it could be that not to give the PK'ers easy targets to hit. They get bored and leave. Simple as that. They want cheap easy kills. If they don't get them they move on.
If they hang around well... they are not pk'ing others then elsewhere. So its all a bonus.
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
so? :P
There is no 'so'
I'm just saying that not eveyone plays the 'psycho killer' part and IMO far too many people do
The fact is that most people use that 'reason' to explain their playstyle (PvP/PK) but in the context of the NC story there just wouldnt be the sheer number of 'psycho killers' around that we seem to have in the game. Justice is absolute and Rezza doesnt like people who break the law...... (and mercilessly killing his loyal citizens repeatedly constitutes breaking the law)
Which brings me back to my suggestion that the FA FC _may_ have simply been playing to the FA character when he advised people to hide in their apartments until the raid was over, because not everyone plays the 'psycho killer' and some people do actually put some thought into the character and play it considering their factions background, goals and motivations.
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 19:05
Originally posted by 5150
There is no 'so'
I'm just saying that not eveyone plays the 'psycho killer' part and IMO far too many people do
The fact is that most people use that 'reason' to explain their playstyle (PvP/PK) but in the context of the NC story there just wouldnt be the sheer number of 'psycho killers' around that we seem to have in the game. Justice is absolute and Rezza doesnt like people who break the law...... (and mercilessly killing his loyal citizens repeatedly constitutes breaking the law)
Which brings me back to my suggestion that the FA FC _may_ have simply been playing to the FA character when he advised people to hide in their apartments until the raid was over, because not everyone plays the 'psycho killer' and some people do actually put some thought into the character and play it considering their factions background, goals and motivations.
people with -16 soullight are shot - any other mechanics would have to be coded into the game and can't be faulted by the player himself
and since when are FA loyal reeza citizens?
They are neutral to CityAdmin - meaning reeza may not advocate ganking FA to no end, but he may also not care that you do
edit: and besides, since when do NC's laws extend outside of NC - if i kill someone in Russia i can't be prosecuted in the US
while FA is a dwindling faction, mainly composed of tradeskillers, there ARE enough people to defend TH. They simply don't/don't organize very well. This is also evidenced by the fact that FA attempts to take our ops on a daily basis and generally is only able to hack them if we are off fighting elsewhere and even if they hack it its held for about 3 hours.
Perhaps the layout of tech haven is also a problem? Sec-1 is literally only apt's. So basically just being in sec-1=you get labeled and apt camper. Sec-2 is basically the gr's, labeled a gr camper. Sec-3= i think i've seen 1 to 2 people max there in months of pking at th.
Give them a few addition security bots, thats about it - out in the open they do enough damage to assist FA in dropping the lone pker. Groups, well even with 120/120's that will just mean ppu's and larger groups, i dont think any guard type will stop groups from coming to pk.
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
FA on saturn have a decent number of players. At the very least enough to defend against raids (which at most, from Templars is a ppu, a spy, and 3 tanks). When we fight NeoGen in op fights they seem to have a fair number of monks/tanks etc.
Um....didnt you read my post? 4 players on faction last night. And NeoGen never seem to be on faction ever. Maybe its the timezones (the game is sooo different at different times, its wierd). A PPU, spy and 3 tanks is more than enough for me - 1 tank. Instant death. No point on wasting ma belt to the lurking spy....
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
Jerry Maguire and the occasional high level character, maybe a bunch of tradeskilling spies, and some lowbies.
Yep. It's a bit of a bummer, but like i said, what can I do about it huh??? We try and recruit, but noone really wants to change faction do they. So why do pkers come then? What exactly do they expect to find in TH. You said yourself "not much".
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
Your faction assistant (or whatever jerry is) openly states on faction chat for people to all just hide in their apartments until the PKers leave. Grow some balls, get the clans like NeoGen, who are active, to defend TH.
Never heard Jerry say that. And how would you know either?
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
I agree they need a few more bots, but if they go overkill your just going to see the raiding parties get bigger and bigger and PPUs will almost always be there.
Um. Well, thats better than it happening every minute of every fuckin day isnt it. One leaves, another arrives. It only takes a couple of pkers to literally capture TH. It's sad, but true. If we turn up, they just call in more reinforcements and then we're outnumbered.
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
I've said it before, if TG go to TT hq to level etc. and we know about it, we organize and kill them or at the very least go and fight them.
Nope. Been in there plenty of times killing all the NPC's. Do any TT's care or notice? Maybe. But then why should they as they don't live there or level there or buy stuff there or socialise there....
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
We don't stand outside calling them meanies
:lol: Now i have seen that one....
Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
people with -16 soullight are shot - any other mechanics would have to be coded into the game and can't be faulted by the player himself
and since when are FA loyal reeza citizens?
They are neutral to CityAdmin - meaning reeza may not advocate ganking FA to no end, but he may also not care that you do
Dont confuse my comments as being solely relating to this issue. The things I speak of are prevalent in the whole game. This thread is just another example of them being brought sharply into focus.
The city is full of 'psycho killers' (by rezas standards anyone with a TG flag for a start) SL is not enough, SL is transient. If you are an outlaw you stay and outlaw, society doesnt 'forget' your transgressions over time (or because you shot up a few mutants). Subsequently if you choose the life of the Outlaw you should accept that the authorities will hunt you for the rest of your days.
FA chose science over everything else, and they make great pains not the rub people up the wrong way (in the story sence) Tangent hate them because they are mostly defectors from Tangent, FA doesnt necessarily have a reason to hate Tangent beyond Tangent hating them.
KRIMINAL99
12-11-03, 19:20
Originally posted by 5150
Dont confuse my comments as being solely relating to this issue. The things I speak of are prevalent in the whole game. This thread is just another example of them being brought sharply into focus.
The city is full of 'psycho killers' (by rezas standards anyone with a TG flag for a start) SL is not enough, SL is transient. If you are an outlaw you stay and outlaw, society doesnt 'forget' your transgressions over time (or because you shot up a few mutants). Subsequently if you choose the life of the Outlaw you should accept that the authorities will hunt you for the rest of your days.
FA chose science over everything else, and they make great pains not the rub people up the wrong way (in the story sence) Tangent hate them because they are mostly defectors from Tangent, FA doesnt necessarily have a reason to hate Tangent beyond Tangent hating them.
Video games aren't based on reality... If they were I could perma kill someone for pissing me off enough and it wouldnt matter how harsh the penalties were to the victim cause hed already have lost everything. That might be a fun scenario to try but 100 % realisticness is not fun else we wouldnt be playing a video game for even a second as opposed to living our lives...
Video games are changed to whatever makes them fun. And this game has always been PVP based, gritty cyberpunk, and was originally supposed to support evil as a play style (not killing faction enemies, evil as in being against everyone but yourself and maybe your friends) The only reason it ever deviated from that is because of misinterpretation of a few small problems in the design of the game.
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 19:21
Originally posted by 5150
Dont confuse my comments as being solely relating to this issue. The things I speak of are prevalent in the whole game. This thread is just another example of them being brought sharply into focus.
The city is full of 'psycho killers' (by rezas standards anyone with a TG flag for a start) SL is not enough, SL is transient. If you are an outlaw you stay and outlaw, society doesnt 'forget' your transgressions over time (or because you shot up a few mutants). Subsequently if you choose the life of the Outlaw you should accept that the authorities will hunt you for the rest of your days.
FA chose science over everything else, and they make great pains not the rub people up the wrong way (in the story sence) Tangent hate them because they are mostly defectors from Tangent, FA doesnt necessarily have a reason to hate Tangent beyond Tangent hating them.
Personally I don't play this game to RP but....
as i said, all that about remaining an outlaw etc. cannot be faulted by the player. It isn't a part of the game, there is no justice system other than a copbot and soullight - therefore a player being an "outlaw" (pker) would simply be the views of the player or his own RPing. Since authorities won't hunt you (unless soullight) perhaps there is no outlaw in neocron? Or simply there aren't game mechanics which match those set in the storyline.
Which again, you can't fault the player.....
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 19:22
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Video games aren't based on reality... If they were I could perma kill someone for pissing me off enough and it wouldnt matter how harsh the penalties were to the victim cause hed already have lost everything. That might be a fun scenario to try but 100 % realisticness is not fun else we wouldnt be playing a video game for even a second as opposed to living our lives...
Video games are changed to whatever makes them fun. And this game has always been PVP based, gritty cyberpunk, and was originally supposed to support evil as a play style (not killing faction enemies, evil as in being against everyone but yourself and maybe your friends) The only reason it ever deviated from that is because of misinterpretation of a few small problems in the design of the game.
agreed
SnotNosedBrat
12-11-03, 19:26
Originally posted by Lecko
Um. Well, thats better than it happening every minute of every fuckin day isnt it. One leaves, another arrives. It only takes a couple of pkers to literally capture TH. It's sad, but true. If we turn up, they just call in more reinforcements and then we're outnumbered.
Nope. Been in there plenty of times killing all the NPC's. Do any TT's care or notice? Maybe. But then why should they as they don't live there or level there or buy stuff there or socialise there....
:lol: Now i have seen that one....
heh well it isn't me :O
Yea i agree, there are probably a ton of times we just don't know about it - maybe alerts over faction chats when npcs are killed? :O
I would go just for a fight, its something to do :)
Ok, ill shoot off a bunch of points here.
Again, I belive its up to the players to defend an HQ, TG and CM guard should be cut down. Its lame to have guards right at the damn GR.
Stig, Ive seen other TG and ND defend TG from me, but never you, nor have you fought me in NF. Your a wuss, I dont care what you say.
More guards will just mean more ppus and more pkers comming, all it means is I cant come alone or without a ppu if there are guards.
CM and TG are both cowards, when I come with myself and 1 other person it takes 10+ people to get us out. Ill start a screen shot collection if youi dont belive me. However cowardly using 10 vs 2 is, at least it gets us out, FA can do the same, and they DO have the numbers, Ive seen it.
Getting red sl as a pker just means your a moron. Red SL's have donated many rares to me, I cant understand how anyone could be so dumb, but they do it...
I can mention nonos name, did a mod edit? im not allowed to accuse him of cheating or something, but names get mentioned all the time here. He is the first coward to log his ppu constantly to stop me ALONE, so I brought my ppu.. complain to him.
@Krim & Brat
Its not really a case of basing it on reality, its more a case of basing the game on the story written to support the game by the same company that made the game. Its the story that tells us what NC is _supposed_ to be like - reality doesnt really enter into it.
However........
With regards to what is and isnt a fault of the player (as brought up by Brat)
Exploits by your example are also the fault of the game mechanics and not the player, yet the player still knows its wrong, and they are held accountable.
If (by the same token) you _choose_ to pk at TH, knowing its lightly defended and knowing you could legitimately pk somewhere better defended (and to top it off from an RP standpoint the best you can come up with is 'I'm a psycho killer'), you are _choosing_ to exploit that aspect of the game mechanics (lightly defended) as as such you cant blame the game for your actions. What the FA's are asking for (I'm not FA BTW) is parity, TH as well defended as the other HQ's
Actually when all is said and done 'defend your HQ' is bullshit. This aint CTF, the whole point of your raid is to fight/kill players. Saying the players need to defend is actually playing right into your hands and into your playstyle (and out of theirs and away from their fun - since its obvious they are currently choosing not to be party to this). They are better off going somewhere other than TH (or staying in their apartments) thus denying the 'raiding party' the whole point of going (and the downside is that Vet doesnt get to have any fun) and from a story standpoint is stupid that those people that wanted independance run back to the very city they left just to be left alone. Which is probably a contributing factor to why there are few FA's
You have the choice of where you pk - so why dont you just choose to go somewhere else? (I suspect the _real_ answer is that everywhere else is more of a challenge and you just arent up to it) or if you prefer me to rephrase the question what would you do if all the FA changed faction and there were no FA left?
While you may try and dodge the 'light defence' issue I notice that none of you are disputing that you pk lower rank runners during these raid - that alone makes you pretty low IMO. I'd have though that 'ubar PKars' would have had a little more pride in their achievments than attacking those with little to no chance of defending themselves - but then maybe you (the royal 'you') are all a bunch or skill less losers as some people postulate
Im taking it vet is a BD then, and btw BD are the noob pker faction you shouldnt be in a faction because you dont get sl for pking you should be in a faction because the storyline or faction ethics not because more people are red for you which seems in your case means more noob tradeskillers to gank in TH TG or MB.
Have to agree that a pker that gets red SL is stupid or sloppy but with the stupid SL system that they have now its easy to do if your not paying attention.
TH is ridiculusly defended even on venus with the funky redeemer bots the defenses are ridiculusly under-powered, I know this cos I went there with my ppu and an apu mate and killed all the bots and 1 or 2 fa that hung around.
And saying that a faction should defend its home is true to an extent but if your camping grs and dont say use their apartments, Ive got 7 FA chars on Uranus and only 1 has a TH apartment.
KRIMINAL99
12-11-03, 21:33
Originally posted by 5150
@Krim & Brat
Its not really a case of basing it on reality, its more a case of basing the game on the story written to support the game by the same company that made the game. Its the story that tells us what NC is _supposed_ to be like - reality doesnt really enter into it.
However........
With regards to what is and isnt a fault of the player (as brought up by Brat)
Exploits by your example are also the fault of the game mechanics and not the player, yet the player still knows its wrong, and they are held accountable.
If (by the same token) you _choose_ to pk at TH, knowing its lightly defended and knowing you could legitimately pk somewhere better defended (and to top it off from an RP standpoint the best you can come up with is 'I'm a psycho killer'), you are _choosing_ to exploit that aspect of the game mechanics (lightly defended) as as such you cant blame the game for your actions. What the FA's are asking for (I'm not FA BTW) is parity, TH as well defended as the other HQ's
Actually when all is said and done 'defend your HQ' is bullshit. This aint CTF, the whole point of your raid is to fight/kill players. Saying the players need to defend is actually playing right into your hands and into your playstyle (and out of theirs and away from their fun - since its obvious they are currently choosing not to be party to this). They are better off going somewhere other than TH (or staying in their apartments) thus denying the 'raiding party' the whole point of going (and the downside is that Vet doesnt get to have any fun) and from a story standpoint is stupid that those people that wanted independance run back to the very city they left just to be left alone. Which is probably a contributing factor to why there are few FA's
You have the choice of where you pk - so why dont you just choose to go somewhere else? (I suspect the _real_ answer is that everywhere else is more of a challenge and you just arent up to it) or if you prefer me to rephrase the question what would you do if all the FA changed faction and there were no FA left?
While you may try and dodge the 'light defence' issue I notice that none of you are disputing that you pk lower rank runners during these raid - that alone makes you pretty low IMO. I'd have though that 'ubar PKars' would have had a little more pride in their achievments than attacking those with little to no chance of defending themselves - but then maybe you (the royal 'you') are all a bunch or skill less losers as some people postulate
But the story as far as dealing with issues like pking etc only follows what is done to balance the game... IE if the gms spawn a bunch of copbots everywhere its because they think criminals should be stopped from sneaking around the copbots... And then they just make up some lame story excuse to cater to their beliefs. Just as easily they could remove all the copbots and safezones because they think it would make the game more fun and then twist the story around that...
I agree that exploiting a bug (and only a bug not design oversights or anything "you" think is unfair) in the program code is obviously something a player knows not to do.. only because it is part of the agreement they made with KK when they paid to play the game. And its there only because that kind of thing can obviously ruin a MMORPG, but thats not up to the gamer to control its up to the designer... which is why they put that condition into the agreement.
Mass random pking is caused by the designers placing the incentives behind it. (intentional or not) People who pay to play the game are just going to do whatever is fun. Don't blame them for problems for really anything- I mean if your the game designer its YOUR goal to create a world where people can all have fun and enjoy the world and everything works right. The players goal is to pay money and in return have fun playing the game. Not control themselves in order to help the other players have fun.
Your idea that any pking anywhere where the pker wont die very quickly is "exploiting game mechanics" is a smoldering pile of horse manuer and I think its obvious..
Lastly about low rank runners... The only players that can be ignored in a pk situation are players that are so rediculously low that they couldnt kill you even if you were afk for 20 min. People call themselves "newbies" when attacked at like rank 20/40, but then when friends arrive they help gang up on the pker if they are left alive. Or if its a hacker if your killed they hack your quickbelt. The ONLY non 0/2 rank player I would ever leave alive in a PK run is one that I specifically knew to be a REAL pacifist and had asked me not to kill them. But you wouldn't know about that because your not a PKer... Yet you make judgements about it as if you had any clue what you are talking about. In fact didn't you say that you play with an LE chip?
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Im taking it vet is a BD then, and btw BD are the noob pker faction you shouldnt be in a faction because you dont get sl for pking you should be in a faction because the storyline or faction ethics not because more people are red for you which seems in your case means more noob tradeskillers to gank in TH TG or MB.
Have to agree that a pker that gets red SL is stupid or sloppy but with the stupid SL system that they have now its easy to do if your not paying attention.
TH is ridiculusly defended even on venus with the funky redeemer bots the defenses are ridiculusly under-powered, I know this cos I went there with my ppu and an apu mate and killed all the bots and 1 or 2 fa that hung around.
And saying that a faction should defend its home is true to an extent but if your camping grs and dont say use their apartments, Ive got 7 FA chars on Uranus and only 1 has a TH apartment.
suppose TG are the serious Pker faction if BD are noob pkers:rolleyes:
stfu some people arent in black dragon simply for the pking, i actually like the idea of blackdragon and concidering the fact that BD have more numerous enemies( on saturn anyway) id hardly call them a noob faction
Stig, Ive seen other TG and ND defend TG from me, but never you, nor have you fought me in NF. Your a wuss, I dont care what you say.
i defend TG when ever there is a raid....if you have not come across me its purely down to you not being there when i have.
and secondly i dont duel people that often, i play the game for fun, i enjoy op wars, and large scale pvp, i do duel from time to time but i dont live in Nf like yourself.
it appears you want it really easy, "oh lets go raid a base with no skilled players and no bots to stop us"
The eternal big man
Andy
Not saying all BD are there for the pking but you have to admit there are alot of juvenile pkers in BD on all servers and no I dont particularly like the TG faction and have never been a member of TG.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Not saying all BD are there for the pking but you have to admit there are alot of juvenile pkers in BD on all servers and no I dont particularly like the TG faction and have never been a member of TG.
ok just dont like people having a pop at my faction just cos of some members init
but BD are a umm suppose dangerous faction, a no shit kinda street faction, so we are gonna get violent members and those that go on 24/7 pkathons:rolleyes:
the pkers are going to be drawn to BD cos of the number of enemies.
I have nothing against pkers myself but dont like the red=dead pkers and if people play BD right its a funky faction to play.
Look, i really don't see the prob. Who cares if they get better defenses? Don't you think it would be a little more interesting? I have to admit, i dont' know why you have to spam the forums with your pking adventures, I know a lot of Rpkers on Saturn, but you are the only one that posts on the forum trying to tell everyone how great you are :rolleyes: Just play the game man and have fun, nobody in the forum cares because they don't know your ingame chars. Just tell them everyone who your ingame chars are, and then they won't have to take your word for your claims.
Tamara D.S-L
12-11-03, 22:53
Hi Guyz !!!!!
OMG, what a tempest in a teacup this iz huh ?
I just got my forum access today so this is my first time to pipe up but i wanted to post a few photos to show ya what I'm talking about
Twilight Guardian canyon
#1
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0159crop.JPG
#2
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0160crop.JPG
#3
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0161crop.JPG (He's a real Hunky one, he reminds me of the guy I wish was my boyfriend)
#4
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0162crop.JPG
#5
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0164crop.JPG
#6
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0165crop.JPG
#7
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0166crop.JPG
#8
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0167crop.JPG
#9
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0168crop.JPG
#10
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0169crop.JPG
#11
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0170crop.JPG
Military base iz commin' up next
Shadow Dancer
12-11-03, 22:54
WoW, female monks look pretty good from behind. I should start one.
Tamara D.S-L
12-11-03, 23:01
Here iz the Military base
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0144crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0145crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0146crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0147crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0148crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0149crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0150crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0151crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0152crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0153crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0154crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0155crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0157crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/7/shot0158crop.JPG
Wow, those soldier boyz sure have lots of security. There are more 2 & 3 star's there but I don't know if they start shootin' at ya.
Next is my lonely & forlorn home, Tech Haven.
Heh this is rediculous beyond belief.
Some of these guys should
1Realise this as a Multiplayer game and not just You are the maincharacter game.
2 try being in a raidable faction.
These guys Bitch because their enemys up their defenses after they have raided them nonstop for eternities without as much as having to worry the least bit about guards.
Im very happy KK ignores dumbasses like these guys and are apparently upping the defenses.
In my oppinion the Clan Apps should be in Faction HQs so you could raid a faction hq and bog down the clans app ( just like a raid on TH/CM/TG do).
These guys are weak they obviously doesent want a challenge, And they wonder at the fact that theres 10 people ousting them ?? that because they are annoying the faction and the faction doesent want a fight they want them gone. Faction Npcs should be responsible for the HQ Security.
These guys are ridiculous never have i heard soo much crap here as these guys have spilled. Its just unbelievably dumb egotistical and well .. its the whole im the center of the world and it should revolve around me BS .
get the better security running please so the FA guys actually stand a chance.
Tamara D.S-L
12-11-03, 23:09
Now here iz my home :(
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0138crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0139crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0141crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0142crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0143crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0171crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0172crop.JPG
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/6/shot0173crop.JPG
Ok, now it's real plain to see that my home, huge as it is, has almost no security there AND it's got no safe zones. All I can say iz that I looooovvvvvvveeeee my faction soooooo much and that they deserve alot better then what they have. It's my goal to be active,proactive & reactive for my fellow factionites and I'm sorry if sum of the city folks don't like it, but it's my home too and I'm gonna do the best I can.
Tammy :)
Em Tamara under your name it says that your the Crahn Faction counciller not the FA one.
The only thing your pointing out is TG and MB are OVER protected. Guards arent the dam answer. Its not a challenge or fun to fight fucking guards. its just annoying. And FA's already zone into the core like coawards to escape me, now if they get guards they will just run to the guards instead of fighting me.
I do pk in other places, such as MB, TG, and other spots, but TH is a prime spot, and I dont wanna lose it. I gun down noobs yes, and THEN the big fish come, so I can gun them down. And YES... its fun fighting on even terms without god damn guards attacking me.
Again, REMEMBER In TG, and MB most of the PKing goes on OUTSIDE the base, away from thoes horrible unfair guards, in TH, theres nothing outside, so we have tyo pk INSIDE.
Shadow Dancer
12-11-03, 23:13
Generally when I stalked enemy clan members in the past, I never fought inside MB. Only because the damn doors take too long to open in the heat of a battle. TG guards weren't too bad as long as I stalked the upper levels and played with the stairs.
QuantumDelta
12-11-03, 23:15
Snow - Beat me to it :p
Tamara, we need to talk sometime, about a few issues, TH defence obviously being one...
unfair guards lol too you maybe heh.
then raid somewhere else .
Sheesh you just dont get it.
This game is not about your fun its about OUR fun.
And many people find it fun fighting. Pkin raids on Hqs is mostly just ambushing people and running when theres a lot of them. ( not city hqs though theres no reason too raid em NOBODY ever defends them. I must admit that some city factions actually rises to the challenge and does. not bd though). then why not pk in a Warzone ( ie cycrow, oh wait people there are high lvl and kill you... ah thats why)
Try going too an op fight there youll see some people with real pvp skill and teamwork.
Tamara D.S-L
12-11-03, 23:22
BTW, I'm the Fa-FC for Saturn & Uranus. I seem to be having a problem hooking up and finding people to help me out on uranus though, so I'd be like soooooooo grateful to hear from people there.
thx guyz
Vettero if they up the guards then dont pk there and even better learn to roleplay and if your unable to do that go play counterstrike or planetside that all you do is kill people and dont have to worry about the RPG in mmoRPG.
If you dont want to go away and stop annoying people deal with the game changes otherwise go back to pking noobs while you still can because the uber TH bots will hurt when FA get more.
Tamara talk to QD hes from one of the biggest if not the biggest FA clan on Uranus, he also has links to the other FA clans.
Bad Snow no double posting.
Snow kicks himself to save nidhogg the pleasure.
In reality an increase in guards might not do much. All the times I ever went pking at MB I dont think I got shot at by an NPC a single time. But just the thought of the Fallen Angels having an unprotected GR right in the heart of the outpost is absolutely ridiculous. I mean come on, you can come to TH all you want for I care, Id just be happy if they allowed the Faction Council Leader to set the GR like it was an outpost. (Friend, All, Faction, etc...)
Vet I know this probably doesn't apply to you personally but quite a bit of the people who areas like TG/MB/TH do so but they hide behind the safe zones of Neocron. In fact I would challenge BD people to not hide in Plaza. Hang out in Pepper Park for a week. Spend almost all of your time in those 3 zones when you are in Neocron. You might be thinking that is an absurd comparison, and granted it would be harder to do, but thats practically what living in Tech Haven is like. Ive never logged on a single night where TH hasnt been invaded.
I'm serious, it would be a good experience. Thinking it over I never did that when I was BD and it almost makes me want to go back to BD. If I didnt have an FA clan Id do this in a heartbeat. (And even thinking about the possibility of BD being KoS to Copbots is enough to make me splouge my pants with glee at being a Black Dragon). It would be nice for BDs to not hide in Plaza 1. After all Vet I want MY fun too. ;) And hunting BDs is second only to hunting Tangents.
i make sure every time i log on i run through the pepper zones... i dont like sitting in plaza and would much rather be in a non-safe zone than plaza any time.
and for saying PKers arnt RPers.... someone has to be the evil guy. if everyone was freindly then this game wouldnt be fun at all. you need to worry about who could be in your area and whos name is in local. it makes you try to be that much better so you can defend your home against the enemy invaders. you cant honestly log on and hunt all day and never have an incounter with an enemy.... we should be fighting, its more RP than shooting launchers all day long. i dont know how other clans and servers do it, but we only kill red claned enemies for the most part. because if your clanned, then your part of a group of people who should be able to defend your own home. there are exceptions, but not many
Haha pepper park based factions tradeskillers in pepper park are you insane they might get killed by a evil CA or something dont be ridiculus.
Seriously they think they are uber raiding TH TG and MB with their combat chars and a ppu on a leash but they would never hang out in PP because there is a chance of them getting killed themselves, I dont count waiting at the p3 zoneline waiting for people to get stuck in sync as hanging around in PP.the closest Ive seen to a clan actually hanging out in PP is a Tsunami clan whos tradeskillers pokers etc hang out in p3 but they would never tradeskill in PP as its too dangerous and you drop belts( scary thought) but then they expect people to do that in TH TG MB and thank the people who pked them for the honour of being pked by them in their home city which is undefended and tradeskillers generally cant fight back.
what server do you play on? cause we keep pp1 occupied on uranus when we are online... if we arnt at MB/TG/TH
Fatwreck you go looking for fights in PP and cartel arent exactly active these days and you dont exactly have a lot of tradeskillers except for marts and another dudes tradeskill accounts but they dont hang around PP doing their tradeskills when they are on they do that in P1 like nearly everyone else.
QuantumDelta
13-11-03, 00:08
Mr_Snow is the dude snow dude :p
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Fatwreck you go looking for fights in PP and cartel arent exactly active these days and you dont exactly have a lot of tradeskillers except for marts and another dudes tradeskill accounts but they dont hang around PP doing their tradeskills when they are on they do that in P1 like nearly everyone else.
ahh yeah tradeskillers... iver herd of those.
yeah we dont log on much anymore... i think we're all busy with life, and only really log on to do raids and get our daily pvp need in
WaaaaaaaH! Mommy mommy they want to stop my having fun!!!! Never mind that my fun ruins the fun for alot of others (who more often than not are newbies) but the whole world and this game revolve around me!!! Waaaaaaaaaaaah!
Thats what you sound like.
what about BD, TT, and Chran who have a good time attacking TH and the FA who arent pussies and defend it? they can just go to hell, screw them right? stfu.
Vettero most people dont have fun when they are killed levelling just because you have fun killing them and killing afk noobs doesnt mean that its fun for them since the game is meant to appeal to the most people and more people think there should be more security TH I think that they should provide a game that most people enjoy not a small few.
Oh and how about trying to pvp instead of pking its actually more fun and more rewarding even if you do actually risk dying rather then killing a few noobs then seeing a high level player and running to a gr shouting how uber you are.
Clownst0pper
13-11-03, 02:02
What a silly thread, that could have been sumed up in afew words...
Improve gaurds offensive abilitys in Tech Haven and The Military Base.
:cool:
Hey presto
Originally posted by VetteroX
I have a real sinking feeling that the whining my pay off, and TH MB and TG may get improved defences. Heres my reasons for why I think this is bad:
1) people complain I always have a ppu shoved up my ass. Like to know why? Because I would hit TH, own, and have fun. Then, after a few days, NoNo the ppu showed up constantly, and ruined my fun. I was always alone, but he had to come ppu 5 guys anyway to get me out. So, i started bringing ppus too. So, thank nono for why I always have a ppu. Now, you think 100/100 bots shooting pkers will make them bring less ppus or MORE ppus?
2) How many times have I owned TH for hours on end? zero? I come, I kill a lot of people, then get bored and leave, or im driven off. I know it takes you FA CM, or TG 3 - 1 odds but eventually you do it... so wheres the problem?
3) What about MY fun? I, and other pker need places to pk... if theres bots spammed all over, or cm guardss or whatever, what am I supopst to do for fun? what do other pkers do for fun? What about the FA, TG, CM who have FUN defending their HQs instead of being pussies about it? what will they do when nobody can raid anymore?
4) You compain tradeskillers cant use the place. What about making apts worth something other then storing techs? buy a bunch of parts lube etc with a buddy guarding you, take it to apt, and tradeskill there your regulars will know where to find you, and you can advetise over trade and faction.
Thats pretty much it. I just think KK should heavly consider improving hq defences, I dont know about other people, but CM, TG, and TH guards hurt like hell... and thats with capped force resist and defelctor. I dont think its fair to dump down tons of guards in these places.
At VERY least, give the guards a LONG respawn time, and im talking like 30 mins to an hour. At least then,m we can wipe out the npcs and have even odds to fight in.
A last point, just for TH. Something people dont realise, is at MB, I dont have to pk much inside... neither does anyone. most of the action happens outside MB and TG. theres a lot of hunters in the area, we kill em, and the defenders come out like bees in a hive... but TH, its desolite outside. we HAVE to pk inside,cause theres nothing and nobody outside. So riddling the place with turrets and bots inside is not fair to FA enemies.
cough cough ego cough cough
no offense, not knowing who you are and all, but does anyone besides the few people u mentioned really care?
Originally posted by VetteroX
what about BD, TT, and Chran who have a good time attacking TH and the FA who arent pussies and defend it? they can just go to hell, screw them right? stfu. What about the majority of people who dont even stand a chance against pker's and just want to level or pass through an area. Its okay to ruin their fun just because you need to satisfy your already overinflated ego?
I dont care about base raids. I expect them in fact (despite the fact I think its pathetic people like you have to make yourselves feel better by killing newbs or tradeskillers who have no real way of defending themselves). I've taken part in a few base raids myself in MB which thanks to the more numerous and no so sh1t guards is alot more fun than raiding somewere like TH. Raiding TH at the best of times it like beating a man with no limbs. He cant do much but bite at your heels but hey' you can still keep kicking him while he's down.
You dont want more defenses at TH cause you might actually have to work a bit more, think a bit more, plan a bit more. You took the time to sit and work out the perfect resist setup? The you shouldnt have a problem against a few more spiderbot guards (which kida suck ass anyway). This game isnt here to cater for a select few people. If the majority of players want defense at TH comparable with the other bases then too bad for you I guess. You arent Neocron. Deal with it.
see the problem on pluto is 5 n00b's of up to 1 or 2 cheverons are leveling in there dungeons one comes up for a mission and bam hes dead b4 he knows what hit him. faction chat is used to say pkr's but all our combat chars are usualy away elswere (all 2 of them that are online at one time ok maby exagerating ) so after 5 10 mins the combat chars arrive and the poor people in the cores are all dead sometimes over and over and over as they cannot go elsewere to level
go to the city u say why were anti city faction we dont like the city we dont wana use it but we are forced to. b4 i reroled i used the thcores all day to level in i also went topside to fight the wabits that spawn up there (malfunctioning ones). i rerol and am forced to go to the city to level ive played this new char for 3 days and have only been in the th cores once and that was untill i got kiled by the uber monk that snuck up on me with a hl (17/24 rank)
basicaly i want to fight you and if i see a red person in th i shoot even though i know im gona die i know im gona die fightin ( i ocasionaly do run but only if i see the person gr'ing in (cause i know i got a chance then) the thing that pisses me off is that once u kill me i gota spend 3k to get my pack back right and if i die say 20 times in a day (this is around average can be 10 15 have seen it go up to 35 40) it costs me 60k to get my pack back so obviousaly i run back to get it but most of the time someone is there to kill me again (even after 20 mins)
basicaly th needs a point were if someo one comes in to kill in th they can do it but must do it were they have to make a tactical desision were to fight like on the ramp n00b's can then run to the guards or have guards that may slow the atacker long enougth for them to get out
REMEMBER YOU ARE ATACKING THERFORE WE THE DEFENDER ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MORE PREPARED
i.e. u cant just gr in and kill any one u want any were in our hq like we could gr into viarossa and atack tt by standing in the top room killing everyone who came in
the defenders need love oh yeah and sex
Vet, all i got to say is that nobody really cares for your thinly veiled attemps to let everyone know how great you are. I have read enough boasting by you as I can take, but I do know who you are in game, and I do know you are pretty good. Why not just tell everyone your character's names so everyone will know exactly how good you are. Then you can save us the time of having to read about you going on about how good you are. Look, I know plenty of good PVPers, and you are the only one who goes on here about how good you are. Well, you and QD. Just give it a break.
QuantumDelta
13-11-03, 06:52
Nice.
Weak.
People can't read into stuff at all what's worse is when they think they know they always mess it up.
Give it a break?
Gimme a break.
Gotterdammerung
13-11-03, 07:18
I'm on the fence about this one, it's getting to be a big "Clash of the Titanic Egos" thread again and I can't see what redeeming value it has. Please try and keep it on topic of the actual security situation.
Agreed.
The simple fact is this. Far more people want TH defenses beefed up than those that don't.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
But the story as far as dealing with issues like pking etc only follows what is done to balance the game... IE if the gms spawn a bunch of copbots everywhere its because they think criminals should be stopped from sneaking around the copbots... And then they just make up some lame story excuse to cater to their beliefs. Just as easily they could remove all the copbots and safezones because they think it would make the game more fun and then twist the story around that...
Does it? One of the criticisms levelled at Nema (in the "What would it take to get you interested" thread) was that the stuff reported in NeMa _didnt_ happen in the game
Also I not refering to specific story elements since launch, I'm refering to generic story elements in the huge backstory (in this case anything relating to Rezza, crime and punishment)
I agree that exploiting a bug (and only a bug not design oversights or anything "you" think is unfair) in the program code is obviously something a player knows not to do.. only because it is part of the agreement they made with KK when they paid to play the game. And its there only because that kind of thing can obviously ruin a MMORPG, but thats not up to the gamer to control its up to the designer... which is why they put that condition into the agreement.
Mass random pking is caused by the designers placing the incentives behind it. (intentional or not) People who pay to play the game are just going to do whatever is fun. Don't blame them for problems for really anything- I mean if your the game designer its YOUR goal to create a world where people can all have fun and enjoy the world and everything works right. The players goal is to pay money and in return have fun playing the game. Not control themselves in order to help the other players have fun.
What incentives? We recently clashed over the fact that you guys wanted more risk vs reward - sounds to me like most PvP players dont think there is much incentive right now (which isnt actually the issue here, but there should _never_ be an incentive to PK newbies/low ranks)
Your idea that any pking anywhere where the pker wont die very quickly is "exploiting game mechanics" is a smoldering pile of horse manuer and I think its obvious..
Go read it again, I'm not saying every PK should be KOS, what I'm saying is that if you make _enough_ of a bad name for yourself (chain PKing) with one faction (or the whole city and this also applies to TH, MB and Canyon) then you shouldnt just be able to waltz in there whenever you feel like it (and this goes beyond faction hostilities) - the single easiest example is 'no TG in NC' the devs already said this was coming with DoY (because TG dont seem to be able to accept the fact that they can hang in their canyon already - no they want a city too!) I'm just saying that this 'outcasting' should also include anyone who breaks the law. Sure you can play a bad guy, but it shouldnt be a cakewalk (and in this respect I could call you a carebear for a change - you want hardcore, you should have to take it all!) the whole SL system doesnt really help because its relatively trivial to raise to a point where the CopBots leave you alone (or you can level some CON in the meantime)
Lastly about low rank runners... The only players that can be ignored in a pk situation are players that are so rediculously low that they couldnt kill you even if you were afk for 20 min. People call themselves "newbies" when attacked at like rank 20/40, but then when friends arrive they help gang up on the pker if they are left alive. Or if its a hacker if your killed they hack your quickbelt. The ONLY non 0/2 rank player I would ever leave alive in a PK run is one that I specifically knew to be a REAL pacifist and had asked me not to kill them. But you wouldn't know about that because your not a PKer... Yet you make judgements about it as if you had any clue what you are talking about. In fact didn't you say that you play with an LE chip?
I'll accept that enough low rank runners _might_ pose a threat in enough quantity, and I'll accept that low rank runners _might_ join in against a higher runner if other people (higher rank or not) were attacking, but the point here is that FA jst dont have numbers. Even so I just dont see how that justifies blowing them away when they are on their own - Vet said it himself, people only PK lowbies to try and get them to log on a higher rank runner or call in higher rank help
This is the most wank excuse I've ever read. If I'm playing a low rank alt I have made a desision _not_ to play my main - so why the hell would I want to then log it in to get revenge against some lowbie killing prick?
Likewise if my factions higher rank runners arent in the HQ then it possible (add sarcasm) that they have chosen to be somewhere else doing something else and why should I expect them to come and kill some lowbie killing prink whos only causing me a problem (and not them)
The thing with PvP is its 2 side (and therefore pretty much consentual) 2 parties _choose_ to fight one another. If you have to PK to try and force someone to come and PvP you its pretty plain that those people, at that point in time, are choosing _not_ to PvP (or they be waiting for a raid or raiding another HQ or trying to take an OP). Rather than be an asshole to other player people should go looking for PvP not looking to PK to try and create PvP
I know what I see with my own eyes and I've taken part in enough PvP (not in NC though) to have an opinion, so here I am (in fact it occurs to me that you guys _need_ someone on the 'other side' to tell you why people are getting pissed off with things like this, because most of the time you just cant see it). Yes I have my LE in, and thanks to players like Vet (never met him in game so this is a generalisation) its going to stay in because I like to make my own decisions on what I do when I'm online and have no intention of letting someone else fuck my gametime up (and therefore my fun) because they are bored and want to try and generate an incident, because just dont have the inclination or the intelligence (or the balls) to go and find an opponent who actually wants to PvP
Originally posted by VetteroX
Its not a challenge or fun to fight fucking guards. its just annoying. And FA's already zone into the core like coawards to escape me, now if they get guards they will just run to the guards instead of fighting me.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You've certainly hit the nail on the head there.... no fun. Just like it's NO FUN when you're new or a tradeskiller or just minding your own business shopping/lomming etc when some twat shoots you in the back after stealthing in and then stealths off again. You should be ashamed of your ego and blatant disregard for anything but your own sorry character... don't hide behind "I fight the noob to get the higher level charcters out!". That's bollox man. I know where to find high level TT characters, I don't stoop low enough to kill 0/2's.
</rant>
You people make the game boring for yourself...
First people moaned about dropping stuff so they put in belts and warzones
Then people moan about not being able to aim at people so they put the run speed cap in
Then people cry about getting PKed so these stupid SL rules are in place...
theres loads more too i just aint got the time to post em
Youll get your guards no doubt, KK always listen to the babies that cry. The game started off as a PvP game, man its a cyber punk world its how it should be. Now look at it now...
TH is the only place we can attack TH faction people on pluto. they dont own any OP's.
Originally posted by SovKhan
TH is the only place we can attack TH faction people on pluto. they dont own any OP's.
Best excuse so far. :rolleyes:
Does that not tell you something?
well after they attack our op's the next logical step for us is to go to TH to do a raid.
Well I thought it would tell you that currently there is not enough FA to hold ops to put up a fight.
Thats another thing that pisses a lot of the FA off. Doing a raid on TH because you got owned at an op. 9 times out of 10 the majority of TH don't even give a toss what ops are taken.
It is like "Waaa we can't take an op, lets go whack some people who can't fight to make it look like we can actually fight".
actually we dont get owned by FA at op's we kill them then go raid TH. we are CS afterall.
and we treet all of FA as a whole because we get LE's spying in UG's and members from several FA clans attacking us at once. its called karma.
Originally posted by SovKhan
TH is the only place we can attack TH faction people on pluto. they dont own any OP's.
That's because FA (like some smaller factions) don't have the power to hold onto OPs. I'd love for the map to be a bit more colourful and more diverse, but the powerhold of the larger factions is indeed very strong. Hats off to them too. It's what I would want as FA - to cover the map in FA OPs. We used to hold a lot of OPs, but with the waning numbers, have let go. Strange to see that BD hold no OPs. They seem to have a large faction, but the clans seem diverse and mostly hold pkers. Strange that they dont put more effort into OP fighting (which would be a testing of skills) and less into random pking. Just a thought.
Originally posted by SovKhan
actually we dont get owned by FA at op's we kill them then go raid TH. we are CS afterall.
and we treet all of FA as a whole because we get LE's spying in UG's and members from several FA clans attacking us at once. its called karma.
emmm if u only got atacked bye one th clan at a time u would be fight only one person at a time cause we have no players left and more leave every day cause they cant put up with geting ganked for the full time they play
its about fun u reduce our fun of the game and dont care why would we give a fuck if we decrease your fun?
WE DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR FUN WE CARE ABOUT OURS
you can get fun else were in nc
OR we can have fun in TH.
OK, again a bunch of points.
People constantly say stop inflating your ego... how else You want me to say it? We go to TH and have a huge kill ratio vs other high level players. facts are facts. It takes a huge number of FA/CM/TG to get us out, want screen shots?
How about give TH ONE guard on each side of 2, and 1 in each hallway in sec 1 and 3. then remove some of TG and MB guards. This is a dangerous world, if you cant defend your home, YOUR DEAD, YOUR FINNISHED, GOODBYE!
Ill gank 0/2 newbs and 84/66 monks, because they are my ENEMIES. And, as someone said, you have leave anyone alive. they can a) spy on you abd b) hurt you. A low level ppu can db you. A spy with a tangent assulr rifle can do some damage, and ANY damage, even if its 10 hp, is dangerous to lose when your pking.
How can you think you should be able to go afk in an anarchy zone or lom there? you do, do die... go afk or lom in your apt, are you that stupid?
FA are for ADVANCED players. Its SUPPOST to be hard and dangerous. heres a guide to leveling if you want it easy: step one choose protopharm. step 2, level. step 3, turn to fac of choise. Being protophrm is almost as good as having an LE, 99.9% of players wont bother you. If you go FA or a faction like that to start, be prepaired to die over and over, simple as that.
Nexxy is right, this game used to be pvp, and now its just getting more and more carebearish. I was thinking a few days ago why I like NC so much, and its for one reason, just one: Its the ONLY mmorpg with a good combat system. The one and only. Other games have a lot to explore and loot and good char building, but you can only do real pvp in NC, thats whats cool about NC, and you freaking carebears from your carebear mmorpgs are taking that away from the game.
Theres a lot of BD, TT, and Chran that love to raid TH, and I just dont think its fair to ruin their fun. Low level FA's should understand the risk they are taking, high levels should defend their home or die trying. And trust me, Id love it if BD had a place for you to raid, (looks like kk building it) cause im gonna love you comming to my base and getting shredded by me. Only thing is, Im sure you FA/TG are too afraid to come with just 2 (max 4) people like I do. Prove me wrong, I doubt you will.
Making excuses for killing noobs then running when opposition comes and man you are arrogance personified and man you could fit a small city in your ego.
Shadow Dancer
13-11-03, 20:28
I bet FA wouldn't get raided so much if PKers didn't have to deal with locked GRs to other juicy spots. :p
Originally posted by VetteroX
People constantly say stop inflating your ego... how else You want me to say it? We go to TH and have a huge kill ratio vs other high level players. facts are facts. It takes a huge number of FA/CM/TG to get us out, want screen shots?
Kill ratios mean nothing if those points are racked up on players who can't or won't fight.
If anything the more points racked up that way makes you look more sad and desperate to look good.
actually we dont get owned by FA at op's we kill them then go raid TH. we are CS afterall.
So you are getting FAs at ops? Kinds of pokes holes in your other argument? o_O
It's supposed to be dangerous, but no more so than MB or TG. FA are supposed to have high tech defences, during the CA epic even claims that TH guards are superior to CopBots. What guards? Some people may be asking to coat the area in security bots and Ys with Redeemers. That I don't support. But at least make it even. You claim to have no problems PKing in MB or TG, so surely you wouldn't have a problem with the same resistance in TH? I agree that it should not be impossible to PK there, but surely the people defending TH should have an advantage?
but as I pointed out, I pk OUTSIDE in mb and tg. Lemme give an example of me pking at mb, alone or with people:
if possible, a scout non hostile to to cm grs in, making sure cm isnt camping gr, as the often are. If no scout is avalible (most often the case), we take out chances. We gr in, making sure we are light, and run as fast as we can to an apt, or the sewer. get rid of SI, buff up, run outside, start pking. If we see hostiles inside, we pk em of course, but I persoanly have made a rule, I get my ass outide away from guards asap.
TH you CANT fo that. Theres nobody outside, and they wont come outside after us. WE HAVE to be inside in TH, so if there 2 spider bots at ever corner, it will making pking there near impossible, even with a ppu.
at VERY least, PLEASE if you are gonna cram guards in TH, make a nice hunting zone outside, warbots or whatever. This will make FA be there, and they can have something outside thier hq to hunt, and we can happily pk them, away from stupid guards.
So you are seriously arguing that a faction HQ should be left unprotected for the sole reason of making it easier for PKers? Alright then, but we've got to be fair now, so we'll remove the BD guards from BD HQ, and we'll make all BD runners rely on a drug which you can only buy in BD in HQ, you can't take the drugs out of the HQ, but you have to take one every hour, so people will be in BD HQ for others to PK. Sound fair?
Originally posted by Scikar
So you are seriously arguing that a faction HQ should be left unprotected for the sole reason of making it easier for PKers? Alright then, but we've got to be fair now, so we'll remove the BD guards from BD HQ, and we'll make all BD runners rely on a drug which you can only buy in BD in HQ, you can't take the drugs out of the HQ, but you have to take one every hour, so people will be in BD HQ for others to PK. Sound fair?
HAHHAHAHAHA sounds like a plan :eek:
LOL the more you go on the worse you sound. I'd stop now.
You take even less of a chance of dying in MB then you do in TH. Kudos for you.
Btw, check out the new TH bots on test server. :D
thats stupid. I said if they make a BD HQ (which they are) I'll be glad to kill you when you come. Only thing is TG, CM etc are wimps and will come with 10 people or more. Its so funny in PP when TG think they are tough because that have 2 ppus, 3 apus, 2 tanks 2 pes and think they are good because they can stop like 1 BD and 2 TT's or something from pushing them out. Anyway, It will still be a fun place to fight, and if you com with 2-1 odds or less, I will have fun fighting you.
Originally posted by VetteroX
thats stupid. I said if they make a BD HQ (which they are) I'll be glad to kill you when you come. Only thing is TG, CM etc are wimps and will come with 10 people or more. Its so funny in PP when TG think they are tough because that have 2 ppus, 3 apus, 2 tanks 2 pes and think they are good because they can stop like 1 BD and 2 TT's or something from pushing them out. Anyway, It will still be a fun place to fight, and if you com with 2-1 odds or less, I will have fun fighting you.
It's also funny when BDs think they are tough because they PK newbs in TG with a PPU stuck up their ass. It works both ways. I also have fun fighting people on even odds, and if it wasn't for the fact that every PKer needs to have a PPU since he's always having to come up against PPUs himself, then you might not need one and I might be able to have a good fight with you. As it is, I can almost never find a PPU to help out, I don't like asking for a PPU to come help me and prefer to fight on my own.
Originally posted by Archeus
LOL the more you go on the worse you sound. I'd stop now.
You take even less of a chance of dying in MB then you do in TH. Kudos for you.
Btw, check out the new TH bots on test server. :D
Yeah they are pretty damn sweet now.... though they still don't move much.... at all..... never.... oh well :p
Gotterdammerung
13-11-03, 23:40
This post hasn't been on topic for a while and it's really become nothing but an ego sniping thread. If you guys (and you know who I'm talking about) don't like each other so much then please take it to PM's.
Closed
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.