Purpose

[SnotNosedBrat]

Due to the recent threads on tanks and the ever present monkocron threads and a talk with a friend this got me thinking. I understand how the PPU imbalances small scale pvp (1v1, 2v2, etc.) however I don't feel KK meant the game to be played pvp Pepper Park style.

With that said, I feel the main purpose of pvp was group style op wars.

Now to the main point of this thread:

Purpose.

Each class has its own purpose at an op war

Monks- APUs are the attackers, high attack power, the ability to kill off other attackers who are buffed and debuff PPUs. PPUs rezz the fighters and generally work to keep them alive as well. Monks can also hack the outpost.

Spys/PE's- act as scouts and hackers at the op. Generally have no purpose in the fight, are last in the list of importance to a PPU rezz wise.

Tanks- support I guess, working in conjunction with an apu antibuffing they can help takeout apus and to an extent shitty PPUs.

In large scale op fights I don't see any imbalances, tanks are meatshields and can support an apu, honestly when i eat 5 holy lightning's and that allows Carniflex or some other apu to do what they have to do, I really don't care. PEs and spies are there to hack and scout the enemies position/numbers. They can fight to a degree as well.

Every class has a purpose which helps the clan/"army" take the op.

I think the game was intended to be played with a variety of classes represented in large scale fights (even if it wasn't), in this case there really aren't horrible imbalances, I have no complaints when I am at an op war as a tank, I am there to eat damage and aid in killing off the attackers, and yes I can do this.

Stop the whining already :lol:

[Richard Slade]

I can't anything but agree
BUT there's a small problem
This is not how it ended up
OP fights aren't the biggest things for the, what 300 ppl?

[LVirus]

Saying that spies has no fightining function beside hacking outpost shows how truly nubie you are :rolleyes:

[Wannabe]

Spies are not totally useless in op fights. As they can scout the area, then can also engage in long-distace combat (snipers, generally all rifle users and droners) and also in close-distance combat when supported by PPUs (pistols users generally).

Spies also have the ability to stealth, they can surprise a un-buffed apu/ppu/tank, draw attention to the direction and then re-stealth, hopefully alive and not too gimped by attacks he has received.

So, spies aren't useless in op fights.

Just my 2nc

// Wannabe

[Scikar]

I'm sorry, what was the tank's purpose again? Damage sponge? Nope, PPU is far better. Anti-PPU? Tanks can't scratch PPUs, you need APUs with antibuff. How about anti-APU then? With APUs having better range, and everyone parashocked anyway, tank doesn't stand a chance. AoE? Yeah because tank AoE is so effective. :rolleyes:

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by LVirus
Saying that spies has no fightining function beside hacking outpost shows how truly nubie you are :rolleyes:


as does saying they can scout - they have less defence than tanks etc and prolly less runspeed too

im not sayin spies have noob defences - i think i will out defend a (unbuffed) PE when i hit cap - maybe a buffed one if i drug to shelter

my resists definatly look better

[SnotNosedBrat]

as i said:

Spies are good for scouts as are PE's mainly (because they can stealth and cause some havok as a distraction) tanks are not, because they cannot stealth and are spotted even if they can get away.

But combat worthy in the main fight? No way, they are the first to die and the last to be rezzed, and even if they survive, they arent killing anyone, i can show you plenty of PE's etc. who get cut down at the end, you cant stealth away from moonstriker/poison/fire. Any GOOD PPU will tell you the rezz order: PPUs, APUs, tanks, pe/spies

As for tanks taking out PPUs, as i said IN CONJUNCTION with an APU antibuffing it is very possible and quite easy to knock off the attackers. PPUs is a different story, and can be done to shitty PPUs but a good ppu will get their shelter up right away (hence shit sheltering=death)

Tanks basically support the monks, only thing i think is that the Tanks need the monks while the monks don't really NEED the tanks.

As one of the ideas of this thread was: teamwork, every class is needed in some way or at least does have a function when used together.

[Jesterthegreat]

do you play on uranus? wanna fight my spy?

[SnotNosedBrat]

i play on saturn

[Jesterthegreat]

shame... i could have showed you how good a real spy is in combat O_o

[SnotNosedBrat]

im talking op wars anyways not 1v1s

there are exceptions, im talking in general the majority of spies=first to die

[ZoneVortex]

I agree with all that OP stuff in the original post, yet I feel that pepper park 2v2 3v3 SHOULD be more supported, so maybe there's a balance to be reached between 2v2 3v3 and 15v15.

[Jesterthegreat]

unbuffed i have better resists than any PE setup i have found, i have ROLH undrugged, i have a fair amount of health

1 drug = s/d, basic resist 2, pistol 1

i am far from useless in an op war (btw this WILL be my spec in 15 more dex and 15 more int :p)

[ZoneVortex]

Eh shuddup this isn't the "My spy > your PE" thread.

All in all, spies are still as useless when it comes to fighting APUs/tanks in an OP war as PEs are. I don't care if your spy can take 3,4,5 holy lightnings, he's still dead in 2.5 seconds.

Plus being able to self cast shelter has nothing to do with it since in an OP war (The topic of the thread) you always have a PPU to buff you anyways, and if you don't you lose the war.

[Jesterthegreat]

lol im not tryin to say im the best or anyhting... just tryin to say and offering to prove they are op war / combat viable

and im not talkin hiding and sniping / droning - i am a pistoler

[SnotNosedBrat]

that doesnt really prove they are op war combat viable since if your self casting your shelter with a ppu around your definitly dead :P

[Jesterthegreat]

no... it proves i can be self sufficiant - with ppu boosts im better

[KimmyG]

Originally posted by SnotNosedBrat
I think the game was intended to be played with a variety of classes represented in large scale fights (even if it wasn't), in this case there really aren't horrible imbalances, I have no complaints when I am at an op war as a tank, I am there to eat damage and aid in killing off the attackers, and yes I can do this.

Stop the whining already :lol:


Well that is part of it but small raid and street fights are also part of the game to.


Mix team is not great. A monk team is still way better and that is the problem.

[SnotNosedBrat]

in the absence of a ppu i think its fairly balanced

as Jester's been saying a well setup spy can be deadly as is a PE (especially add in stealth for both of them)

Small scale is definitely not balanced when you factor in a ppu but that isn't my point.

Im simply saying no matter what class you choose to play, at an op war there is a purpose for you being there and everyone is effective in some way

We have been thoroughly outnumbered monkwise and still come out on top in many op fights (against good clans as well)

[Richard Slade]

Hey Snot, you're mine when I find you
Anytime, anywhere
Op fight or outside
Four spies with SH's are NOT to be made fun of

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Richard Slade
Four spies with SH's are NOT to be made fun of
Four spies on the defending team are. Monks are just the better snipers in that case.
Except you've got a SH with a RoF of 105...

Monks are way too important atm. No chance for a good fight without a load of monks. Everyone thinks this way. And thats not balanced, thats far away from it. Snot just threw up some lame excuses. o_O

[-FN-]

It is purpose that created us.
Purpose that connects us.
Purpose that pulls us.
That guides us.
That drives us.
It is purpose that defines us.
Purpose that binds us.

We are here because of you, Mr Anderson. We're here to take from you what you tried to take from us.

I suck :( It's 5am and that's all I could think of when I read this thread *sigh*

[Richard Slade]

Originally posted by SorkZmok
Four spies on the defending team are. Monks are just the better snipers in that case.
Except you've got a SH with a RoF of 105...

Monks are way too important atm. No chance for a good fight without a load of monks. Everyone thinks this way. And thats not balanced, thats far away from it. Snot just threw up some lame excuses. o_O

Snipers find the monkeys first
Takes 6-7 seconds to bring down two monkeys
And add up another SH with a fire mod and they aint gonna find you ever
SH's own monkeys