Neo LoneWolf
08-11-03, 16:05
Well, I think it's about time to get flamed again, so here goes:
I like things to be as they are in Neocron for a reason. In some respects, this could be said to be a desire for 'realism', but as many would probably point out, this is a game, and not a reality simulator. I hesitate to use the term, due to the pseudo-philosophical application of it in a certain film series recently, but it is the most appropriate for the issue at hand, so I will regardless - Causality.
For there to be an effect, there must be a corresponding affector, a cause. An answer to the question of 'why?' if it ever gets asked.
It also works the other way around. Everything has it's consequences. From the obvious and direct (applying force to mass results in acceleration in that mass), to the not-so-obvious and indirect (consider the quantum moth/butterfly).
Take, for example, safezones. If a sector is a safezone, it should be because it's a Cop-bot watched zone. ie, if I pull a weapon, my brains will be decorating the wall right next to me. I don't like the fact that it's physically impossible for me to raise my fist in Plaza 1 unless it has a poking tool or a Psi-glove on it.
Where is the cause for that?
But this post isn't about safezones.
It's about armour.
I'd like to start out by saying that this isn't a post desiring a nerf. It isn't a post borne out of a selfish desire to make my characters better, or others worse. It's borne out of a desire for causality. For consequences, and for options.
It's a simple suggestion from the outset - armour should slow you down.
As it is now, someone fully kitted up in duranium 4 will run at thge same speed as someone completely unarmoured (assuming they have the same Agl/Ath and the former hasn't used up his/her carrying capacity wearing the armour). I really can't explain just how . . . wrong this is. If anyone feels that this is right and proper, feel free to make your case as to why.
I've had a few thoughts on this, and the following is probably my most appropriate.
Give all Str-req'd armour a minus to Agl. The malus would increase proportionally with the defense the armour gives, of course - from a point or two per armour piece for the lowest levels, upto ten or twelve for the top-tier armour. That would give -30ish Agl for 3, and -40ish for four pieces of Duranium 4, for example. In compensation, it wouldn't seem inapproriate to increase the resist values for armour somewhat, to compensate.
Another point, is that if armour is slowing you down while you wear it, it really shouldn't contribute to your current weight carried - the slowing effect is already taken into account. Wearing != carrying.
The Power Armours would be exceptions to having an inherent -Agl, as they all have their own unique malus'. If you want more a better explanation, assume the poered-aspect of the armour counters the negative Agl.
Obvious Issues:
*Psi-Monks won't be affected - Giving Psi-armour -Agl just wouldn't be appropriate, but for ideas wrt this, see below.
*Tanks get an arse-raping - Tanks generally wear the highest levels of armour, so with the runspeed-cut from heavy weapons, tanks would move like snails on dope.
First - the runspeed-cut from heavy weapons drawn should be cut significantly. I don't think there's a H-C tank that likes the current situation. Second - virtually every tank overspecs Agl, because they can. Tanks have 70 dex, and little (necessary) to spend it on (T-C & Agl) - With the -Agl from armour, a standardly overspecced-Agl tank will come back to about what most other classes are at now.
*PEs get slapped like bitches - PEs don't have the spare dex to overspec Agl, so wearing heavier armour leads to a noticable speed-cut. PE players will have to balance speed versus defense. There are a lot of posts pointing out how a PE's defense is effectively higher than that of a tank - would there be so many complaints of that defense came at a cost to speed?
*Spies get away unscathed - Because a spy has difficulty getting any armour that gives decent protection, they won't take much of a runspeed cut, if any (nekkid spy syndrome). Fear the nekkid spy.
Some people have made posts saying something along the lines of "Of course spies should be fast, and tanks slow", without any real explanation as to why. There normally follows a response like "Why? Tanks are bred to be physically superior". Physically superior maybe, but being able to run faster than a naked spy even while armour fucking plated? *shrug*
Now, there are two types of armour that giving -Agl (or runspeed) to doesn't make a lot of sense - Psi-armour, and belts. In the interest of balance, all armours should get some form of malus, in order not to alienate some classes.
However, I'm really hungry, so instead of finish writing this, I'm going to get a sandwich.
I like things to be as they are in Neocron for a reason. In some respects, this could be said to be a desire for 'realism', but as many would probably point out, this is a game, and not a reality simulator. I hesitate to use the term, due to the pseudo-philosophical application of it in a certain film series recently, but it is the most appropriate for the issue at hand, so I will regardless - Causality.
For there to be an effect, there must be a corresponding affector, a cause. An answer to the question of 'why?' if it ever gets asked.
It also works the other way around. Everything has it's consequences. From the obvious and direct (applying force to mass results in acceleration in that mass), to the not-so-obvious and indirect (consider the quantum moth/butterfly).
Take, for example, safezones. If a sector is a safezone, it should be because it's a Cop-bot watched zone. ie, if I pull a weapon, my brains will be decorating the wall right next to me. I don't like the fact that it's physically impossible for me to raise my fist in Plaza 1 unless it has a poking tool or a Psi-glove on it.
Where is the cause for that?
But this post isn't about safezones.
It's about armour.
I'd like to start out by saying that this isn't a post desiring a nerf. It isn't a post borne out of a selfish desire to make my characters better, or others worse. It's borne out of a desire for causality. For consequences, and for options.
It's a simple suggestion from the outset - armour should slow you down.
As it is now, someone fully kitted up in duranium 4 will run at thge same speed as someone completely unarmoured (assuming they have the same Agl/Ath and the former hasn't used up his/her carrying capacity wearing the armour). I really can't explain just how . . . wrong this is. If anyone feels that this is right and proper, feel free to make your case as to why.
I've had a few thoughts on this, and the following is probably my most appropriate.
Give all Str-req'd armour a minus to Agl. The malus would increase proportionally with the defense the armour gives, of course - from a point or two per armour piece for the lowest levels, upto ten or twelve for the top-tier armour. That would give -30ish Agl for 3, and -40ish for four pieces of Duranium 4, for example. In compensation, it wouldn't seem inapproriate to increase the resist values for armour somewhat, to compensate.
Another point, is that if armour is slowing you down while you wear it, it really shouldn't contribute to your current weight carried - the slowing effect is already taken into account. Wearing != carrying.
The Power Armours would be exceptions to having an inherent -Agl, as they all have their own unique malus'. If you want more a better explanation, assume the poered-aspect of the armour counters the negative Agl.
Obvious Issues:
*Psi-Monks won't be affected - Giving Psi-armour -Agl just wouldn't be appropriate, but for ideas wrt this, see below.
*Tanks get an arse-raping - Tanks generally wear the highest levels of armour, so with the runspeed-cut from heavy weapons, tanks would move like snails on dope.
First - the runspeed-cut from heavy weapons drawn should be cut significantly. I don't think there's a H-C tank that likes the current situation. Second - virtually every tank overspecs Agl, because they can. Tanks have 70 dex, and little (necessary) to spend it on (T-C & Agl) - With the -Agl from armour, a standardly overspecced-Agl tank will come back to about what most other classes are at now.
*PEs get slapped like bitches - PEs don't have the spare dex to overspec Agl, so wearing heavier armour leads to a noticable speed-cut. PE players will have to balance speed versus defense. There are a lot of posts pointing out how a PE's defense is effectively higher than that of a tank - would there be so many complaints of that defense came at a cost to speed?
*Spies get away unscathed - Because a spy has difficulty getting any armour that gives decent protection, they won't take much of a runspeed cut, if any (nekkid spy syndrome). Fear the nekkid spy.
Some people have made posts saying something along the lines of "Of course spies should be fast, and tanks slow", without any real explanation as to why. There normally follows a response like "Why? Tanks are bred to be physically superior". Physically superior maybe, but being able to run faster than a naked spy even while armour fucking plated? *shrug*
Now, there are two types of armour that giving -Agl (or runspeed) to doesn't make a lot of sense - Psi-armour, and belts. In the interest of balance, all armours should get some form of malus, in order not to alienate some classes.
However, I'm really hungry, so instead of finish writing this, I'm going to get a sandwich.