View Full Version : harrassment??
Where do you draw the line between one persons fun and another persons harrassment?
The past few days I have been raiding TH, mainly because it’s fun, and also because FA are enemy to my faction. So sometimes on this raid we decide to visit a certain player run shop, and if there is anyone there, and they are stupid enough to open the door, we kill them. Now this is all very well in my mind, I mean, they are faction enemies, and we are… merely playing the game as it is meant to be played.
So last night we were outside the appartment door sexing and doing various other harmless things, when one of the people inside started threatening to call a GM. We were like, yeah whatever, that’s never going to happen, this game is built around pvp and even encourages it. But to my amazement, today we were all warned, and threatened with a ban. WTF is this?? May I also remind you that this is the same clan that previously had help from the GMs by spawning special items for their shop, for example the extra cabinets etc that we saw last night. In contrast to this, a GM had previously told me after a similar incident, that it is OK to raid people appartment and PK them there. So…. What is different about this situation? And why are the GMs being favourable towards this clan?
After all this game encourages PVP, hence people being red etc, epic runs even encourage killing. So where do you draw the line between having fun and harrasing someone? I’ve probably died more times going to TH in the last week than any FA runner.. So why are they complaining? I was simply playing the role of my faction, and killing enemies, are we now saying that the game mechanics are wrong and we should be nice to enemy factions?
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:39
If you really are daily terrorising people and camping a player runshops entrance stopping them from doing their business I would take it as abuse, and harrassment.
I do not really complain about people invading TH on our server, when I'm on and it happens I either defend it or I ignore it until they get bored and go away (the people who attack TH on Uranus tend to not have the longest of attention spans...)
TH in itself is poorly defended compared to other faction HQs, you are in my oppinion exploiting that fact.
It should be fixed and then there would be little-to-no issue...
think the only thing you did wrong.. was to camp there... not illegal.. but still annoying to a runner that wants to go somewhere..
so if there is NOTHING more to it than what you wrote.. then i dont see anything wrong with what you did..
I was the second runner but I dont know the whole story so I aint gonna comment on it. By the way gonk where the hell is my pizza, tea, and side order of weed? And im not talking the cheap shit Tangent makes either.
But we weren't stopping them doing their business simply by standing outside.. they should have just left the door closed. When they opened the door, we went in, killed them, then left about 3 minutes later.
In comparison to this, a few months earlier, when i was in a certain TG clan, we raided some guys appartment and camped his body for ages, as his clan sent people up we fought them off. Now i spoke to a GM after this and he said it was perfectly ok... So what was different about this situation? In my opinion the thing at TH was a lot less harmless...
I forget it's name but when the server comes out where there are no safe zones then things will be even. As it is now the only place where a trade mecha can exsist is in the plaza where tradeskillers dont have to worry about being killed. The dynamics of this game allow it to mean different things to different people and who is to say any one of them is wrong as long as it goes along the game mechanics. Some people go around killing faction enemies and thats the game for them. Some people play the game to tradeskill and thats the game for them. Unfortunetly these two do conflict with one another but thus is the paradox.
All they have to do is change the password to their apartment - problem solved.
If my store (hypothetically) had a bunch of dudes with big looking cannon things and a fruity dude with a flame going in circles around his hand outside... I'd find someplace else to work until they were gone.
I wouldn't say its harassment - they can choose to work elsewhere; somewhere safer.
They choose to make a statement by continuing to work there.
Sometimes those who make the biggest statement die for thier cause.
*shrug*
Originally posted by Hippieman
I was the second runner but I dont know the whole story so I aint gonna comment on it. By the way gonk where the hell is my pizza, tea, and side order of weed? And im not talking the cheap shit Tangent makes either.
You woudln't open the door so we coudlnt' give you it:D
whifix that server's name is Neptune. Its coming out soon(TM)
Pete you tangent bastard I said I wanted the great quality stuff, not the Tangent stuff you make. Which is about as shitty as a Clint Eastwood movie.
Gonk I like it when you come to TH. Cute wittle tanky-poo.
see these guys dont mind, why do some people have to make such a big fuss about it.
I think someone has GM friend and that GM did a hasty decision.
I dont see anything wrong about this thing u (Gonk) just descriped...
Maybe if there is gonna be rules like this coming up.. they are not to be given to players like this.
...and by the way, if this behavior is inclueded to harrasments (like spaming dm or mail).. it sucks!!!
That sounds a bit shit mate, kinda takes away the whole point of raiding and pk'ing an enemy faction dont it..
And how does camping outside some1's shop/apt stop them moving around... if they had sense they could just rep out and open up later and besides its not like there are enough FA to make a shop worth running these days anyway.
Oh yeah and they are sooo worried about pk'ers taking away there business why not hire some goons to sort it out instead of crying about it to some GM... who is prolly a memeber of the clan anyway.
For me the PKing will continue and if that includes raiding shops so be it until there is an official announcement about it being bannable from KK,
Nuff said.
Well Gonk I dont mind people attacking TH, but yah I think camping some ones apartment like every night just might verge on harrasment. ;) The whole thing about the GM altered store is irrelevant. They aren't the subject of favoritism. Camping anyones clan apartment night after night would probably get you a warning. The fact that you and any one else in this thread are accusing them of GM favoritism is bull shit plain and simple.
Note the above only states my opinion on whether or not you were breaking the rule set in place, not whether or not I agree with the rule. :)
nonamebrandeggs
07-11-03, 00:04
:( because I missed it
:( because even though I wasn't there I'm still part of this pending ban
:) because MJS himself said PKing is the game
:) because this is going to get sorted out and we wont get banned or anything because this is all bullshit
:( because I'm a very unique goth who is going to killmyself
....So is it ok to kill them if they are outside their shop, or do they suddenly have immunity now?
Originally posted by Gonk
But we weren't stopping them doing their business simply by standing outside.. they should have just left the door closed. When they opened the door, we went in, killed them, then left about 3 minutes later.
In comparison to this, a few months earlier, when i was in a certain TG clan, we raided some guys appartment and camped his body for ages, as his clan sent people up we fought them off. Now i spoke to a GM after this and he said it was perfectly ok... So what was different about this situation? In my opinion the thing at TH was a lot less harmless...
we fought them off:lol: Naw we came and killed a few
Breaker was his name :p Now Xanthos ;)
And marx said change the pass:wtf: it was his primary apt:rolleyes:
I never camp the app night after night, thats not how it is. Once we've cleared sector 2 we go to the shop to see if anyone is there, if it is empty, then we leave. If it is not empty, we stand outside for a few minutes, then get bored when they dont open the door, and then leave OR they open the door, we go in and PK them, and then leave. I dont think that counts as camping.
Originally posted by Jest
Well Gonk I dont mind people attacking TH, but yah I think camping some ones apartment like every night just might verge on harrasment. ;) The whole thing about the GM altered store is irrelevant. They aren't the subject of favoritism. Camping anyones clan apartment night after night would probably get you a warning. The fact that you and any one else in this thread are accusing them of GM favoritism is bull shit plain and simple.
Note the above only states my opinion on whether or not you were breaking the rule set in place, not whether or not I agree with the rule. :)
We didn't camp anyones apt. All we did was go up to the phoenix store and ring the door bell. If no one was there we would just leave, but if there was someone there we would ask them to open the door and if they woudln't we would try to get them to open it. After a couple minutes if they still wodln't open the door we would leave. No camping, and if they didn't like us standing outside there apt they could just gr out or just not open the door.
Originally posted by Gonk
I never camp the app night after night, thats not how it is. Once we've cleared sector 2 we go to the shop to see if anyone is there, if it is empty, then we leave. If it is not empty, we stand outside for a few minutes, then get bored when they dont open the door, and then leave OR they open the door, we go in and PK them, and then leave. I dont think that counts as camping. Maybe, but my main point is that the accusations of favoritism are crap. I was a member of crackheads and NCAT too remember, its not like this is the first time you may have recieved a warning that you didnt think you deserved.
If they were truly being so favored by GMs then trust me, we'd have a fucking NPC guard in TH2 like we've been begging for. :lol:
In my mind the thread has nothing to do with whether or not you were "camping" (even though I talked about it). It has to do with GMs helping out players like the shop in question. I'd personally like to see MORE GM involvement in the game and for players, but threads like this won't help that. The GMs will only start thinking "well see thats what happens when we give extras to a player run shop."
I was never bothered that GMs had helped them and given them extra stuff for their shop, thats fine by me. I simply posed a question, that why is this case different to the previous one i described where a GM said what i was doing was OK?... I'm not outright accusing GMs of favoratism, I'm just presenting the evidence. If this isn't a case of GM corruption, then its a severe case of inconsistency.
Originally posted by Gonk
I was never bothered that GMs had helped them and given them extra stuff for their shop, thats fine by me. I simply posed a question, that why is this case different to the previous one i described where a GM said what i was doing was OK?... I'm not outright accusing GMs of favoratism, I'm just presenting the evidence. If this isn't a case of GM corruption, then its a severe case of inconsistency. GM inconsistency has always been a major problem. Hell I've been warned for shooting CA NPCs for sympathy before. The secretaries...
But I still think the fact that you go occasionally to this shop and attempt to kill people could be interpreted as harassment. That's one of those issues where it would probably differ depending on the GM. (Not on who is being harassed. :))
So how do you know where to draw the line? I said i wasn't harrassing them, they said I was... its one word against another, and interpretations vary where there is no clear rule set.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 00:30
I hate GM inconsistency, it was horrible in UO and is one of the reasons I left. I don't think there's anything with what gonk did, if the GM is that harsh then a whole lotta people could be banned.
There was a point when I raided gabanium several times a day and killed the same people several times a day. Does that mean I should be banned too?
It's BS, that's not harassment in my eyes, what gonk did.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
There was a point when I raided gabanium several times a day and killed the same people several times a day. Does that mean I should be banned too?
YEAH BAN THAT ARSE it looks saggy anyway.:p
Originally posted by Gonk
So how do you know where to draw the line? I said i wasn't harrassing them, they said I was... its one word against another, and interpretations vary where there is no clear rule set. Simple enough. Contact a lead GM, which a mod will probably tell you to do anyways when they close this thread. :lol: Ask them and if they give the go ahead to do it then you are in the clear.
And Shadow I think a player run apartment is a little bit different that Gabanium. I doubt ANY GM would warn you for doing that. The same when I would kill any red to TG people at Cycrow back in the day. It's definitely a different issue.
Well the altered appartment was probably made by request of a bunch of RPers, there are others (like the constructor club).
And btw, if the guy is getting pissed off with you, asked you to stop and you dont, then it can be classed as harrasment. Read the RoC....
I don't see a problem with it. I die I die.. what pisses me off with the raids is how some friendly factions are using zoning to avoid getting the loss for killing people who they are green to, but if you manage to kill them they don't zone so as you make you more of a target.
The tossers knows who they are. I will taking screenies next time.
They never told us to stop.
And if they are roleplayers then why are they complaining? Surely this sort of thing would happen in a violence ridden world... especially between two enemy factions.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 00:55
Originally posted by Nasher
And btw, if the guy is getting pissed off with you, asked you to stop and you dont, then it can be classed as harrasment. Read the RoC....
huh?
So I can simply ask someone to stop killing me and get them banned if they don't stop?
Who needs LE then, just shout on trade channel for everyone to stop killing you.
Zu (Pluto)
07-11-03, 00:57
The problem here is they are trying to run a player shop. Now with anyone elses apartment, they can just change the password and that's it. But that won't work for their shop as no one would be able to find it them. Also, you only get a name when you ring their door bell. Unless they know who you are they can't tell you are a hostile faction until they open the door. People change factions all the time. These things are hard to keep track. Basically, I have no problem in theory with what you chose to do (kill them all), but in practice there are some problems due to limitations of the game and so I think people have to give-and-take a some.
However, I think the GM was a bit OTT here though. A polite request that you terrorize elsewhere would had been nice. There was no need to go straight to ban threats. Sometimes I feel that people just assume the worst of others and not give them a chance. I also feel that it would be better you camp downstairs rather than at the shop. Same effect, but less "on their doorstep and nothing they can do about it". They are the only player-run store in the game. Give them a little chance :)
Zu
....if they were real Roleplayers, theyd solve the problem with buying some goons or bodyguards, or pay a "protection" fee...
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 00:59
People are always talking about RP, and I loathe to use RP to try and justify what they did but what i'm about to say has a point. Doesn't this "shop" have any security?
And yes you're right, going straight to ban threats is a bit extreme.
Gotterdammerung
07-11-03, 00:59
You keep citing that "this clan gets favored by GM's" and that "they get GM help" now you know right there talk like that thats totally heresay usually gets edited and a 3-day forum ban, but I'll explain again the part that you know but are omiting. What they have in their apt. is the result of Role Play and direct interaction with their faction councellor. Yes people, every faction has a councellor but most don't avail themselves of it. If you had a RP clan like they do, and asked your FC, and it was ok'd by reakktor to further promote active roleplay in what is an mmoRPG then you too could avail yourselves of their services. None of this is favoritism by any GM's, it's simply smart players using the resources within the game to further their RP experience.
Now, about the apt. camping. Sitting in the vestibule, night after night for long periods of time and killing everyone who walks off the elevator not only smacks of harassing the players who get off the elevator but even further harassing the players inside the shop as you are denying to them THEIR rp experience. Plain and simple the only reason you go there night after night is because TH is poorly secured. If there were a real challenge I suspect you wouldn't be found there.
Now you have been warned in-game, your actions there will dictate what path you choose, so choose wisely.
Originally posted by Zu (Pluto)
However, I think the GM was a bit OTT here though. A polite request that you terrorize elsewhere would had been nice. There was no need to go straight to ban threats.
My guess is the GM didn't suddenly appear out of nowhere. they were probably standing there for a good 10 minutes or so watching and listening. At least based on other GM reports of people claiming they have been wronged when in fact they display a totally one sided aspect of the story.
So I don't think they are over the top.
Originally posted by Gotter-dude
*rains down fire and lightning*
pwned.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 01:02
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Now, about the apt. camping. Sitting in the vestibule, night after night for long periods of time and killing everyone who walks off .
How do you know it was for "long periods of time"?
Just curious. And why didn't their GM, or FC, or whoever just spawn a whole lot of security bots on top of the pkers?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
How do you know it was for "long periods of time"?
Because GM's dont make rash decisions, they actually watch and see what happens before acting.
Just curious. And why didn't their GM, or FC, or whoever just spawn a whole lot of security bots on top of the pkers?
Because (1) GMs cant do that, (2) Neither can FCs and (3) The TH bots are crap anyway.
You keep citing that "this clan gets favored by GM's" and that "they get GM help" now you know right there talk like that thats totally heresay usually gets edited and a 3-day forum ban, but I'll explain again the part that you know but are omiting. What they have in their apt. is the result of Role Play and direct interaction with their faction councellor. Yes people, every faction has a councellor but most don't avail themselves of it. If you had a RP clan like they do, and asked your FC, and it was ok'd by reakktor to further promote active roleplay in what is an mmoRPG then you too could avail yourselves of their services. None of this is favoritism by any GM's, it's simply smart players using the resources within the game to further their RP experience.
Now, about the apt. camping. Sitting in the vestibule, night after night for long periods of time and killing everyone who walks off the elevator not only smacks of harassing the players who get off the elevator but even further harassing the players inside the shop as you are denying to them THEIR rp experience. Plain and simple the only reason you go there night after night is because TH is poorly secured. If there were a real challenge I suspect you wouldn't be found there.
Now you have been warned in-game, your actions there will dictate what path you choose, so choose wisely.
Firstly, the fact that the GMs/FCs spawned items for the shop was never under question, that is not a problem in my eyes.
Secondly, we weren't sitting there "for long periods of time", and at no point did anyone come up in the elevator, so this didn't happen either. The security of TH isn't the reason either, we would PK at TG if there was actually people there.
Edit: I have already agreed not to go back to the shop again, it seems like the whiners got their wish, and although it pains me to give in, I do not really wish to be banned. However, these actions have made me want to PK TH even more, so i guess they shot themselves in the foot.
Another edit: How is this denying them their roleplaying experience? Surely it is only improving their roleplay experience, you know, enemy factions and all that, the stuff the game was built around?
Gotterdammerung
07-11-03, 01:07
"How do you know it was for "long periods of time"?
Just curious. And why didn't their GM, or FC, or whoever just spawn a whole lot of security bots on top of the pkers?"
Well, FC's have no power to do such things, and if a GM had spawned a whole lot of security there I suspect we'd be reading a thread that went along these lines
"OMFG GM H4x !!!!111oneoneone WTF??? GM's spawn stormbots and kill the 20 of us crammed into the lift vestibule. GM favoritism"
So you see, apparently you are damned if you do...and damned if you don't.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 01:08
Originally posted by Archeus
Because GM's dont make rash decisions,
That's a big generalization. :p
Not all Gms are patient, rational, clear thinking individuals.
Besides, Gotter wasn't the GM.
Originally posted by Archeus
Because (1) GMs cant do that, (2) Neither can FCs and (3) The TH bots are crap anyway.
1.?
2.? I heard of "someone" spawning mass TG guards when it was being PK raided before. I think I read complaints about that.
3.Ya well. :p How about city mercs? You could RP it that the shop "hired" these mercs for protection. But their offense also sucks right? :p
That's a big generalization.
True, but if you read the numerous earlier posts of GM's telling thier side of the story you find they tend to start off with something like "I was standing invisible for 10 minutes watching what was happening".
(1) Should be not all GMs can do that. They have limits too.
(2) FCs do in fact have limits. If they can spawn it would be by certain rules and the example cited to solve the problem would of just gotten the FC in trouble.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
"How do you know it was for "long periods of time"?
Just curious. And why didn't their GM, or FC, or whoever just spawn a whole lot of security bots on top of the pkers?"
Well, FC's have no power to do such things, and if a GM had spawned a whole lot of security there I suspect we'd be reading a thread that went along these lines
"OMFG GM H4x !!!!111oneoneone WTF??? GM's spawn stormbots and kill the 20 of us crammed into the lift vestibule. GM favoritism"
So you see, apparently you are damned if you do...and damned if you don't. Hehe well actually one time a GM spawned like 100 of those blue security turrets in TH while a 'pker' was in TH. It was probably the funniest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. It was a while back too.
On a side note every one needs to get over this roleplayer hatred thats pretty evident. You can't just stuff everything in roleplayers faces. It's a very difficult thing to roleplay every aspect of the game, especially when you feel cheated by forces outside your control like the lack of TH guards. Though I still think the best line you can use before you kill a roleplayer is "roleplay this beotch!" haha
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 01:25
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
"OMFG GM H4x !!!!111oneoneone WTF??? GM's spawn stormbots and kill the 20 of us crammed into the lift vestibule. GM favoritism"
So you see, apparently you are damned if you do...and damned if you don't.
:lol:
Well I still stand by my statement they shouldn't even have gotten a warning. :p
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
"OMFG GM H4x !!!!111oneoneone WTF??? GM's spawn stormbots and kill the 20 of us crammed into the lift vestibule. GM favoritism"
So you see, apparently you are damned if you do...and damned if you don't.
:lol:
Well I still stand by my statement they shouldn't even have gotten a warning. :p
Well, thats weird. eXo goes to phoenix sometimes nightly. We've never gotten a ban threat...
Originally posted by 2ply
Well, thats weird. eXo goes to phoenix sometimes nightly. We've never gotten a ban threat... Thats cause you end up dying horribly. Haha. j/k...mostly...
are FA on pluto totally helpless to stop the pkers or something and have to call in GMs to stop them?o_O
personally i see no problem with what was done.
pk them twice as hard next time so they dont have time to call a GM in to there aid:p
Originally posted by ezza
are FA on pluto totally helpless to stop the pkers or something and have to call in GMs to stop them?o_O
Not really, Ive killed over 30 TH attackers and have actually only died twice in TH since I've been back at FA. It's just the fact that we pretty much get attacked every hour on the hour.
Originally posted by Jest
Hehe well actually one time a GM spawned like 100 of those blue security turrets in TH while a 'pker' was in TH. It was probably the funniest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. It was a while back too.
What I don't get is, why don't they have those blue security turrets in TH still, They have them outside, but not on the inside.
I thought they were ok back in beta(in the latter stages of beta4 GM's spawned a ton of them in TH), just make them shoot FA enemies and not just anyone who draws a weapon...
I just can't figure out why there's not more NPC security in TH, besides those wimpy bots....:confused:
*EDIT*
I know there are some of those blue turrets currently, but not in the numbers and locations they were in beta..
turrets = monks leveling. nuff said.
Originally posted by enablerbr
turrets = monks leveling. nuff said.
yeah, i remember the turrets spawning in TH, and then me going through and lvling my dex offa them...good times, good times...^^
Originally posted by enablerbr
turrets = monks leveling. nuff said.
I kinda figured it had something to do with that, you think KK could make so you don't get EXP off of certain NPC's.......
Cypher_Psy
07-11-03, 02:56
Being able to plant turrets in the appt ceiling and walls would solve this :p
[TgR]KILLER
07-11-03, 03:01
Originally posted by ezza
are FA on pluto totally helpless to stop the pkers or something and have to call in GMs to stop them?o_O
personally i see no problem with what was done.
pk them twice as hard next time so they dont have time to call a GM in to there aid:p
this night alone we'v been fighting for 4 hours straight lol..
first some BD then more BD then other BD then TT then CS then we dit an OP war and now i logged off and about 20 TT and CS were camping every exit and lift in TH.. and just 5 FA or so online haha.. see a problem there ? FA is lacking fighters big time.. we'r recruiting but who's wanna join a faction that loses.. because they don't have the manpower?
FA just needs the like of megaman defending TH again. then your troubles would be over.:D
hmm thats a real bad situation you have there, not the Pkers but the lack of runners. [edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 03:03
Sounds like CS, TT and BD are full of very insecure people over there.....
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Sounds like CS, TT and BD are full of very insecure people over there..... what makes you say that?o_O
[TgR]KILLER
07-11-03, 03:05
Originally posted by ezza
hmm thats a real bad situation you have there, not the Pkers but the lack of runners. [edited for consistency]
its because phoenix have their buisness there and they attracked PKers it seems haha :p to camp the store ( no shit )
and we'r trying to defend TH.. alot has happend past days tho.. even some "new" TG clan is attacking FA.. we'r getting fucked over good.. and [TgR] with 15 members can't defend it all.. want to lent us a hand ? :)
well not even got any chars on pluto*, so not likely to get any help from me anytime soon.
would be interesting playing the FA runner on pluto since im BD on saturn
*well unless you count a 0/2 noob tank :D
[TgR]KILLER
07-11-03, 03:12
contact any of us ingame we'll sign u up.. had 1 good comment from CC tonight (crypto) when he came out of the UG from the OP we were attacking he screamed SPYoCRON haha.. since we'r not overloaded with monks.. but rather with spy's :p
we got erm.. about 5 spys i think.. 6 even..
Keyol45743241
07-11-03, 03:53
Make the appartment a safezone... or even better, label it "a levling zone." If you PK there, you loose SL. If you want to test damage, you can make a team, no problem. And if PKing there goes too far, copbots will start shooting at you - but that's what every PKer is deathly afraid of :rolleyes:
That would also prevent those wankers fom PKing who exploit the "synced into wrong appartment" Bug by syncing up and down, hoping for an unlucky victim :rolleyes:
P.S.: I'd love to have negative SL, just for the looks - but then, the disadvantages are just too great, even for a droner. To easy to hack your belt and you loose too much stuff :(. I could live (even enjoy) Copbots shooting me on sight... maybe they should add a bonus to negative SL, like easier belthacks the lower your own SL is..... :D. But that would only make sense for hackers.....
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 03:55
I would love to have NEG sl as well.
I wish they changed the penalty from "i lose all my rares and inventory" to something a little more manageable.
How about making people with Red SL, UNABLE to recieve 3rd party buffs?
I'm still waiting for a reply from the clan in question, as to why they had to go so over the top on this one...
i was playing my brothers character and caught the tail end of this fight, the only reason i didnt get ganked to bits was because my own character is friends with most of the guys that were raiding TH.
People raid tech haven, people raid military base, people raid TT HQ, people raid NCPD................
it happens to most factions and alignments, so it all seems like a storm in a teacup to me.
slap some y replicant guards into TH that will sort the men from the boys :D
[edited for violation of the forum rules)
expect an e-mail
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 05:30
Originally posted by Lenard
[edited for consistency]
LoL, I know right.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 05:47
Well I wouldn't call the GM retarded either.
Also I think you can get in trouble for calling a specific GM crooked on the boards.
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 06:02
Sad stereotypes on both sides of that argument make it a pathetic but funny thing to watch...
I'm curious: What level were the people you were ganking and what classes were they? How many of you were there and how many of them? What classes were you?
Answering those questions will make it easier to determine if you were harassing or actually playing the game.
If you were, for instance, a group composed of five capped apu's and ppu's, and they were rank 20 tradeskill spies, then that's harassment.
If they don't want PKing in the shop, why doesn't someone just change the shop to a safezone zone like the apartments at MB and TG? Then the problem will be getting TO the shop, not doing business in it, and that seems to be acceptable - it's ok to raid TH, but not to raid their homes/shops...
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 06:26
Unfortunately, GMs nor Devs can do that without patches to that effect, and even then I think it would be a case of "All TH Apts" and not just the one TH Shop apt if they did...
Originally posted by emoticon
If you were, for instance, a group composed of five capped apu's and ppu's, and they were rank 20 tradeskill spies, then that's harassment.
Would probably be close to the mark. They will killing while they zone too.
I don't have a problem with the fights in TH, or people for that matter. Camping zone points/GRs is lame though.
They should make the whole of Tech Haven into a warzone so its population can be allowed whack Friendly/neutral clans who are helping our enemies.
Gonk, you admit that this player-run shop is on your regular TH PKing route, and that every time you raid the place you hang around outside it.
And you don't call this harassment?
I would, and I'd call it fairly blatant, too.
How often to you make your TH PK runs? Once a day? More often? Less often? And every time you do, this player-run shop has to endure at best a complete absence of custom for your camping duration, and at worst a 100% death rate.
The problem is that there are too many people who are suffering on those raids.
We actually have some new FA recruits on pluto, and as you probably know, they arrive at TH. So tell me how can they lvl if TH is raided by bunch of capped bullies for like every two hours?
That is the problem and that is the harrasment - some people can't fight back, some people don't know how to avoid fight, some people don't know what to do. Untill yesterday Phoenix store was considered as a kind of safe heaven for all (not only FA runners - since you are killing everyone in your path, phoenix clients too) runners who want to avoid fight. Yeah they usually couldn't go back to TH because all lifts entrances were camped, but they could mind their business and eventually GRed out of TH. Yet now it seems that TH should be a place for high lvl warriors only, because low lvl runners or tradeskillers have apparently nowhere to hide. And you think this is fair? (yes it is the problem of TH security but since we don't have security...)
FA newbies have pretty hard life here in TH, they have two choice - levelling outside of TH (which usually ends moving to another faction) or stay here and got ganked every two hours/7days a week (heck, he cannot even *leave* his app cause you're usually camping ALL GR's and lifts entrances). Not to mention you are happily hacking their belts and probably throw away their noob equipment.
Very sporting eh?
We are trying to help our newbies but it's pretty hard as it seems our enemies are spending more time in TH than we... which is of course because lack of FA players. But as killer said, it's hard to get new players if they are constantly ganked by some capped bullies...
but on the other hand, it's just a major neocron problem again - newbie killing... but i won't go into that topic again... waste of time
az
Originally posted by Xylaz
The problem is that there are too many people who are suffering on those raids.
We actually have some new FA recruits on pluto, and as you probably know, they arrive at TH. So tell me how can they lvl if TH is raided by bunch of capped bullies for like every two hours?
That is the problem and that is the harrasment - some people can't fight back, some people don't know how to avoid fight, some people don't know what to do. Untill yesterday Phoenix store was considered as a kind of safe heaven for all (not only FA runners - since you are killing everyone in your path, phoenix clients too) runners who want to avoid fight. Yeah they usually couldn't go back to TH because all lifts entrances were camped, but they could mind their business and eventually GRed out of TH. Yet now it seems that TH should be a place for high lvl warriors only, because low lvl runners or tradeskillers have apparently nowhere to hide. And you think this is fair? (yes it is the problem of TH security but since we don't have security...)
FA newbies have pretty hard life here in TH, they have two choice - levelling outside of TH (which usually ends moving to another faction) or stay here and got ganked every two hours/7days a week (heck, he cannot even *leave* his app cause you're usually camping ALL GR's and lifts entrances). Not to mention you are happily hacking their belts and probably throw away their noob equipment.
Very sporting eh?
We are trying to help our newbies but it's pretty hard as it seems our enemies are spending more time in TH than we... which is of course because lack of FA players. But as killer said, it's hard to get new players if they are constantly ganked by some capped bullies...
but on the other hand, it's just a major neocron problem again - newbie killing... but i won't go into that topic again... waste of time
az
so your saying raiding TH is harresment then?o_O cos thats what it sounds like, well it isnt there enemies they have every right to kill there, its FAs problem that they cant defend there own home, maybe you should get on better terms with your TG allies and get them to help, since from a story line point of view they are ment to be the muscle for FA.
and you say leveling is tough for FA, try leveling a BD, when your KOS to 3/4 of the server it can be interesing finding good spots to level since all the normal level spots are gone.
all i can say is that the shop in question made a mistake in the placement of the apartment and in also giving the password out, it would be nieve(spelling?) to not expect that enemies would go there to kill.
maybe the shop needs to hire themselves some security(and i dont mean getting GMs to place a guard outside the door)
i see no problem with that was done, but them thats just me, i see np with people getting killed from behind while hunting etc etc its a harsh world out there, were just seeing one part of it with this incident(maybe they could turn it into a peice for the next issue of NEMA;) )
Originally posted by ezza
maybe you should get on better terms with your TG allies
Pay attention, we are getting attacked by TG as well who are assisting those PK'ing. Even after some claim they are friendly. We are fighting back, we are taking SL hits trying to stop them.
I see no problem with that was done, but them thats just me,
The problem was a large group of people camping the lift, so anyone trying to zone has absolutly no chance of fighting or zoning back out before they are dead from the amount of firepower used.
Originally posted by Archeus
Pay attention, we are getting attacked by TG as well who are assisting those PK'ing. Even after some claim they are friendly. We are fighting back, we are taking SL hits trying to stop them.
The problem was a large group of people camping the lift, so anyone trying to zone has absolutly no chance of fighting or zoning back out before they are dead from the amount of firepower used.
i was paying attention thats why i said you should get on better terms with them.
I am running a "business" my own on Saturn. Like most "shops" opened by players, this "business" shall be a neutral place. No matter of faction and clan, a place for meeting equals and just relaxing.
It would be bad for everyones mood if we have a problem with PKs every day. This would destroy my kind of roleplay, even call it harrassment or grief-play.
And as you might notice, grief-play is against the rules of conduct.
There would be no problem if you PK one time or two times at the shop, but if you do it over and over again, and even camp at the entrance, I would call it grief-play.
Since start retail of NC I have been far from calling for a GM to solve my ingame-problems and ever time I was able to solve the problems on my own (may it be with weaponpower or by talking), but there are others which don't see PvP in their kind of playing. Their target is to run a shop to the benefit of everyone else and with camping and PKing at their shop you not only destroy their business (who do you think will come to the shop, if it gets known there are PKers every now and then?), no, you also destroy their whole gameplay and gamefun for them.
And that can't be the target of the game.
At the end you destroy the fun for yourself, because there will not be anyone left who you can play with.
So have your fun some, look how you can deal with various situations and locations, but as soon as someone says that he sees your behaviour as a kind of harrassment and grief-play, step away from it.
Or maybe just have a meeting. Maybe you can find an other solution.
Ever thought about surpression just like "Hey, we make sure your store will stay as nice as it is, if you pay a weekly fee of xxxxx NC, or this bully to my left will get realy pissed and trys to redecorate your shop with some blood."
Maybe think about it.
Better Terms? o_O
We are told by the FA heads that the TGs in question have agreed to not attack anyone except enemies. So explain why these same people were attacking anyone who was FA in Tech haven last night totally unprovoked.
Seriously.. no better then Tangents.
Originally posted by Archeus
Better Terms? o_O
We are told by the FA heads that the TGs in question have agreed to not attack anyone except enemies. So explain why these same people were attacking anyone who was FA in Tech haven last night totally unprovoked.
Seriously.. no better then Tangents.
well thats crap that TG are helping enemies, but i still stand by the fact that i see there was no wrong done my Gonk and co
its seems that TG dont value there allies on pluto.
there was once a time back in my TG days that some FA clans were very close with the TG clans(though this relates to saturn)
@ezza - no i wouldn't say raiding TH is a harrasment. But camping runner and phoenix store apps day after day isn't very fair don;t you think? And it *may* be called an harrasment (although i would rather find some other term to describe it) as it basically won't allow some people to play this game.
And heh, "from the storyline point of view" all seems little different then it is in real. Everybody knows that roleplaying in neocron is simply non existant, heck TH was actually raided by one of TG's clan...
And yes, i'll repeat that again - it's just a problem of TH security. Everyone agree on that yet everyone knows what can be made about it...
az
Originally posted by Artie
yeah, i remember the turrets spawning in TH, and then me going through and lvling my dex offa them...good times, good times...^^
That is what i had a chitchat with a GM about, it was "close" to an exploit. There are places you can stand to give the turret a very small (if any) chanse to kill you (you get zapped once in a while), and i also know a way of killing turrets without getting hit (No, i'm NOT gonna tell), anyway, i've stopped since it's borderline, some other GM may think differently and ban you for it. So it's not recommended leveling.
Originally posted by Shockwave
How often to you make your TH PK runs? Once a day? More often? Less often? And every time you do, this player-run shop has to endure at best a complete absence of custom for your camping duration, and at worst a 100% death rate.
Would you like me to say it again? All they had to do was leave the door closed. At no point when I have EVER been to this appartment, has a customer come up through the lifts, so that is out of the question too.
Originally posted by Xylax
The problem is that there are too many people who are suffering on those raids.
We actually have some new FA recruits on pluto, and as you probably know, they arrive at TH. So tell me how can they lvl if TH is raided by bunch of capped bullies for like every two hours?
By leaving their LE in.
That is the problem and that is the harrasment - some people can't fight back, some people don't know how to avoid fight, some people don't know what to do. Untill yesterday Phoenix store was considered as a kind of safe heaven for all (not only FA runners - since you are killing everyone in your path, phoenix clients too) runners who want to avoid fight. Yeah they usually couldn't go back to TH because all lifts entrances were camped, but they could mind their business and eventually GRed out of TH. Yet now it seems that TH should be a place for high lvl warriors only, because low lvl runners or tradeskillers have apparently nowhere to hide. And you think this is fair? (yes it is the problem of TH security but since we don't have security...)
It's not a question of whether its fair or not, my point is that it is not AGAINST THE RULES. This game is built around pvp, and PKing. The way the game works with regards to enemy factions, ENCOURAGES it. It's not up to me whether its fair or not, I'm just playing the game as it was designed to be played, and if you dont like it, put your LE in, level up, and then try and kill me. Or alternatively, dont open the door to the phoenix app.. THERE! Problem solved! Also for all your information, we never camped any genreps.
FA newbies have pretty hard life here in TH, they have two choice - levelling outside of TH (which usually ends moving to another faction) or stay here and got ganked every two hours/7days a week (heck, he cannot even *leave* his app cause you're usually camping ALL GR's and lifts entrances). Not to mention you are happily hacking their belts and probably throw away their noob equipment.
You do know that FA is meant for experienced players only, right?
Originally posted by Archeus
Pay attention, we are getting attacked by TG as well who are assisting those PK'ing. Even after some claim they are friendly. We are fighting back, we are taking SL hits trying to stop them.
We have never been assisted by TG. Also, last night when we raided TH, there were various other factions there too, this had nothing to do with us, it was just a coincidence that they decided to PK there too. Also, these various other factions did go up that lift to the phoenix store, and by all accounts actually spent a lot more time there... So where is their ban threat? Not another GM inconsistency... surely? ;)
The problem was a large group of people camping the lift, so anyone trying to zone has absolutly no chance of fighting or zoning back out before they are dead from the amount of firepower used.
There were only ever people on the other side of the appartment door, theres a thing called a GenRep in there as well you know. Or... they could have just left the door closed! :)
Originally posted by Invhunter
I am running a "business" my own on Saturn. Like most "shops" opened by players, this "business" shall be a neutral place. No matter of faction and clan, a place for meeting equals and just relaxing.
It would be bad for everyones mood if we have a problem with PKs every day. This would destroy my kind of roleplay, even call it harrassment or grief-play.
And as you might notice, grief-play is against the rules of conduct.
"My kind of roleplay"? But what if MY kind of roleplay is to kill enemy factions? Now I'm not a roleplayer, lets get that straight. However, the majority of the people I am killing ARE roleplayers, so why do they get to decide that its ok to roleplay when you're constructing weapons but its NOT ok to roleplay once an enemy is around? Also, as far as I know, the person that complained to the GM, it was the first time they had been involved in one of those visits, I would hardly call that griefing.
There would be no problem if you PK one time or two times at the shop, but if you do it over and over again, and even camp at the entrance, I would call it grief-play.
So where do you draw the line? If once/twice is ok... then why not three or four times? Why not five? Also, we never killed anyone over and over again, and there was only anyone at the app on about 3 sepperate visits, the rest of the time it was empty. Also, I've said this before but i guess it needs to be said again, we didn't camp the app, we stayed for a few minutes then left, thats all.
Since start retail of NC I have been far from calling for a GM to solve my ingame-problems and ever time I was able to solve the problems on my own (may it be with weaponpower or by talking), but there are others which don't see PvP in their kind of playing. Their target is to run a shop to the benefit of everyone else and with camping and PKing at their shop you not only destroy their business (who do you think will come to the shop, if it gets known there are PKers every now and then?), no, you also destroy their whole gameplay and gamefun for them.
Sadly, I dont think there was any business to destroy, as I have said before not once did a customer come up through the lift.
And that can't be the target of the game.
It is the target of the game, though. PKing is part of the game, or else you would be penalized for killing all runners, there wouldn't be such a thing as "red" factions.
And for these FAs I've come up with a solution. Why dont you move to TG? The canyon has TG guards to fight off offenders... The appartments are safe zones... Isn't this the perfect solution? :D
well, roleplaying does exist in neocron, it's just most fucktards that don't know how to do it.
\o/ to all you good roleplayers out there, ..|.. (o_O)..|.. to the rest of you.
[Edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
Did you not hear me the first, second or third time when I said that we didn't camp the shop? :lol:
quote:
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Originally posted by Xylaz
The problem is that there are too many people who are suffering on those raids.
We actually have some new FA recruits on pluto, and as you probably know, they arrive at TH. So tell me how can they lvl if TH is raided by bunch of capped bullies for like every two hours?
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originally posted by gonk
By leaving their LE in.
jesus, you guys just can't push yourselves to think a tiny little bit? I'm talking about CLANNED people. If someone wants to join a clan he have to remove LE, and within TH it is almost neccesity to join some clan to get some resources as newbies are getting killed 10 times a day and robbed from their equipment.
yeah it's pretty easy to lvl with your LE in, but not all people wants to do that. I've lvled my char up to lvl 55 or so with LE and t was pretty fine, but most people are enjoying playing in groups, taking benefits from ppu's buffs and so on. Besides, many people nowadays are perfectly aware about potential flaws with LE chip so they can easily kill low lvl LE person...
and
uhm...
to be honest i have to admit that i've never seen gonk camping lifts (it doesn't mean you did not camp - i'm stating my personal experience), because there is other clan out there who *specialize* in such things, using all exploits they can to make life in TH as hard as it is possible. But that's quite another story...
az
Originally posted by NeoChick
Gonk I think you are a sorry excuse for a human being if your main fun of playing a game is to derive your fun out of making other people miserable and unable to play the game, what an incredibly selfish attitude.
He's just one fish in the ocean, there are more. It's really amazing to see the lameness of some players.
If all you want to do is kill, kill, kill other players go back to Quake you silly little worm
I dont think the high level people who do the LAME killings would last long enough in quake because their weapons and skills are not ubar to everyone else.
Originally posted by NeoChick
[Edited for consistency]
i dont think the issue is what level the people where its more that he was camping the lift(or suppoedly camped), i like killing but was never a FPS player.
if FA are going to be a tradeskill faction then they should of though about it, and as for the customers they take there own risk coming to TH, they know its a PK hot spot.
whos the bigger idiot the pker or the person who knowingly heads in to a pker zone
the [edited] comment made me laugh though:lol:
pretty soon were gonna end up like SWG where you can only fight in certain zones or worse also the do you want to fight message thingy
@gonk
If there was no business and nothing of interrest, so why have you gone there over and over again?
So you could just have left the shop as it was without any actions of you.
The sentence of me about "the target of the game" was aimed on "the destroying" fun of others on the game.
And what do you think why noone has come up the lift? Maybe because the app was camped by PKers?
You are so shortminded on your point of view. Your kind of thinking reminds me of some smokers.
Some smokers say, that the none-smokers should be more liberal to the smokers and allow them to smoke where they want.
But it is the point that with the "non-smoking" noone gets harmed, but with smoking even people which are not smoking get harmed just by the passive smoking.
PK is just like the same. The roleplayers with their shops don't destroy your kind of having fun with the game, because it is a passiv way of playing.
But you with killing others who don't want to and even disturbing them, destroy their fun. They are not willing to join your kind of playing and just leave you. So why don't you just leave them?
Go over and find some others who are interrested in PvP just like you and don't bother anyone who is not interrested in.
I think there is enough place for both kinds of gameplay side by side and so noone must be forced to move over to a different kind of gameplay.
This thread was getting along in quite a civil manner considering the subject matter, but I see now the flames have begun.
By the way, newbie killing was never part of the question, I'll attack anyone whatever rank they are, sometimes I die, but surely thats the risk i've gotta take for doing such things.
Also may I remind you that Fallen Angels is recommended for experienced players only. This is partly because its a long way out of the city for real newbies to begin, but also because it is not a safe zone and is subject to attack from FACTION ENEMIES.
The roleplayers with their shops don't destroy your kind of having fun with the game, because it is a passiv way of playing.
His style of playing is to kill rival faction members. Last I checked black dragon is enemy of FA.
Isn't black dragon full of like drug dealing bad guy types?
Now, if you think about it place yourself in the world of Neocron for just 1 second.
You are a X faction member.
An enemy faction is developing weapons of mass destruction!
What are you going to do? Are you just going to let them continue making these weapons and stuff just so they can get stronger and probably pwn you some day?
Of course not! You're going to fly in with everything you got to disable the weapon making facilities!
And thats exactly what these guys were doing. The action taken by support staff was rediculous imo.
* I also wanted to make 1 more point on this... If this type of thread would have been started by a not so revered clan. AkA the crackheads for example. I garantee you it would have been closed in less than 5 minutes with " Keep it in game" roofles
Originally posted by Gonk
Did you not hear me the first, second or third time when I said that we didn't camp the shop? :lol:
I'd go back and reread what you wrote then. Because that is what you said you did.
If someone wants to join a clan he have to remove LE
If they are really are new players they should be explained in detail what they are getting themselves into. Removing your LE to join a clan is no excuse. Removing it while clanless is a different story.
Likewise wandering around TH without an LE. We know the risks. I got whack a few times by Mike lastnight (thanks mike :)). All part of the course.
Tangent makes gunz, FA Tradeskillers, make guns? tangent goes to tradeskillers "store" to wipe out the competition, that could be seen as roleplay.
The tradeskillers openly give out their password, therefore inviting people into their place, they cant then say "sorry, we dont want you here coz u might kill us!" thats a risk they take.
on the other side, the tradeskillers want to ply their trade in TH, fair enough, they want to do it quietly, without any hassle, but if Gonk etc. had been there 24/7 (not that they were) that could be harrasment, if they pop in occasionally, thats not bad, its like a pk'er who goes into the sewers every day, kills 3 people, leaves, sits in a chair till 10 soul light, repeats, will that person now be told "stop killing people in the sewers, its harrasment?!".
From what I can see, there is no difference between the two, they dont have to open the door, at all, in fact, things like this could just make more constant raids on TH itself more prominent, people not going into the apartment, just stopping people from getting there maybe.
Something you learn in game, if you ask, you tend to get, I've dropped a 4 slot dmg booster (perfect heh) and my PPU PA, I asked "may I have them back?" and got them back, if Phoenix had asked nice to the clan in questions leader "can you please stop?" it could have resloved easily like that, as it is, there is now animosity between runners and gm's, runners and runners, and a massive can of worms on "where to kill, who to kill, can we kill, is this harrasment is that, is the other, can I call a GM if someone pk's me" has been opened, and still no official word, which in itself is worrying.
Originally posted by Gonk
Did you not hear me the first, second or third time when I said that we didn't camp the shop? :lol:
Originally posted by Gonk
Would you like me to say it again? All they had to do was leave the door closed. At no point when I have EVER been to this appartment, has a customer come up through the lifts, so that is out of the question too.
No?
So last night we were outside the appartment door sexing and doing various other harmless things, when one of the people inside started threatening to call a GM. We were like, yeah whatever, that’s never going to happen, this game is built around pvp and even encourages it. But to my amazement, today we were all warned, and threatened with a ban. WTF is this??
This sounds very much like camping someone's doorstep to me. And as I remember, Phoenix have a second entry buzzer that automatically opens the inner door no matter who you are, so keeping the door shut isn't an option.
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you've never met anyone coming up in the lift because either you camp the lower part of the lift too so people don't get that far, or word of your little TH Tent-a-thons spread quite quickly.
Originally posted by Lenard
Of course not! You're going to fly in with everything you got to disable the weapon making facilities!
Oh yeah! Let's go over and kill every noob no matter of faction! He might get stronger, he might change faction and later he might become able to kill me!
This is a game and should be fun for everyone. But all I say is, that this kind of gameplay might destroy the fun for others.
It is like a walk on the razors edge to play such a game where different gametypes get together.
But just remember the players which play a more "peacefull" way and let them play their game.
Jesterthegreat
07-11-03, 15:35
Originally posted by Xylaz
jesus, you guys just can't push yourselves to think a tiny little bit? I'm talking about CLANNED people. If someone wants to join a clan he have to remove LE, and within TH it is almost neccesity to join some clan to get some resources as newbies are getting killed 10 times a day and robbed from their equipment.
its like a paradox... they would only lose equipment if their LE is out... they would only have their LE out to join a clan cos they are losing equipment... O_o
Originally posted by Lexxuk
if Phoenix had asked nice to the clan in questions leader "can you please stop?" it could have resloved easily like that
You don't think that was tried? We are not talking a single incident. This has been going on for some while.
Originally posted by Shockwave
Phoenix have a second entry buzzer that automatically opens the inner door no matter who you are, so keeping the door shut isn't an option.
I was there last night, think it's been removed. But I was certainly met with firepower ready from Phoenix when I went to pick up my order. So it is not like they ran whining to a GM.
or word of your little TH Tent-a-thons spread quite quickly.
I can only vouch for a couple of factions, but FA has the best faction chat going. Reports are relayed on everything. So yes people would be warned to stay away.
In RL if a store is harassed i'm sure they would look into moving their business elsewhere.
Maybe thats what you should do instead of whinning about it.
It all comes do to there not being enough policing of TH and until that happens you shouldn't moan. Its part of the game.
Originally posted by Archeus
You don't think that was tried? We are not talking a single incident. This has been going on for some while.
I've no idea of what actually has been going on, pk'in runs dont interest me, I'm PPU, I go on healing runs :lol: thats probably why I can sit on the fence and go "this seems off to me" because it does seem off.
Every clan has a leader of some sort, some even have other leader type people, if your getting raided by 20 or 30 clans (ok, 2 or 3) and you can get 1 to stop raiding you, thats kewl, just leaves 2, then you can hire security, there are so many ways around "call a GM" that its hard to list, but this now has opened the can of worms, of what is now harrasment? Going into an apartment where the password is available for all to go into that apartment, and killing people? If that "was" against the rules, apartments (all of them) would be safe zones. Ach, to tired to think, so I'm gunna shut up hehehe :)
Originally posted by Shockwave
This sounds very much like camping someone's doorstep to me. And as I remember, Phoenix have a second entry buzzer that automatically opens the inner door no matter who you are, so keeping the door shut isn't an option.
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you've never met anyone coming up in the lift because either you camp the lower part of the lift too so people don't get that far, or word of your little TH Tent-a-thons spread quite quickly.
I class camping as staying in the same place for a long period of time, this altercation lasted approximately 5 minutes... not what I would call camping, but then I guess some people would disagree... so where do you draw the line? Can I please also make the point again that we just visit the app on our PKing route, and stay there for a few minutes at most. Also, the second buzzer that opens the door automatically is not there anymore, they have to open the door manually.
By the way, Lexxuk, Lenard, you summed it up perfectly
Originally posted by Gonk
Ithis altercation lasted approximately 5 minutes
Just curious. Add it all up and gives how many times you have done it each day and for how long will you?
You also say you were sexing, doing harmless stuff. What would of happened if someone had zoned into the area you were to/from the apartment (whichever side you were at).
... TH is the new pepper park.
Why? Because people actually try to trade/live there where as the idiots who like zone camping at PP know they can get some low level meat at TH instead standing around like sexing and other harmless stuff.
its like a paradox... they would only lose equipment if their LE is out... they would only have their LE out to join a clan cos they are losing equipment...
uhm, yeah. sorry... got mixed it up a bit...
Just wanted to say that new players need resources, esp. in places like TH so they wants to join a clan (and they want to remove their LE because they want to hunt in groups, with the help of ppu, for example). And if not - they will still got pkilled because of certain exploits... It's just that there is still many disadvantages for keeping LE in...
Tangent makes gunz, FA Tradeskillers, make guns? tangent goes to tradeskillers "store" to wipe out the competition, that could be seen as roleplay.
Youre telling me phoenix doesnt make guns? At all? Back when I used to play I asked one of them to make me a gun and they said they don't make guns for BD. So I cried and cried. So I logged on a friends account who is on FA and got the same dude to make me the gun roofles.
Also I dont think you got my point. You seem to think its some economy issue? It's strictly a power issue. BD isnt pwning that store so they can benefit money wise, they do it to cut off the supply of cars/guns/drones/ and whatever other equipment to their rival factions.
Countries do it in real life. Why shouldn't it be done in NC?
just out of curiosity, this shop, does it have a GR?
If yes then you could have just GR'ed out.
Originally posted by Gonk
Where do you draw the line between one persons fun and another persons harrassment?
The past few days I have been raiding TH, mainly because it’s fun, and also because FA are enemy to my faction. So sometimes on this raid we decide to visit a certain player run shop, and if there is anyone there, and they are stupid enough to open the door, we kill them. Now this is all very well in my mind, I mean, they are faction enemies, and we are… merely playing the game as it is meant to be played.
So last night we were outside the appartment door sexing and doing various other harmless things, when one of the people inside started threatening to call a GM. We were like, yeah whatever, that’s never going to happen, this game is built around pvp and even encourages it. But to my amazement, today we were all warned, and threatened with a ban. WTF is this?? May I also remind you that this is the same clan that previously had help from the GMs by spawning special items for their shop, for example the extra cabinets etc that we saw last night. In contrast to this, a GM had previously told me after a similar incident, that it is OK to raid people appartment and PK them there. So…. What is different about this situation? And why are the GMs being favourable towards this clan?
After all this game encourages PVP, hence people being red etc, epic runs even encourage killing. So where do you draw the line between having fun and harrasing someone? I’ve probably died more times going to TH in the last week than any FA runner.. So why are they complaining? I was simply playing the role of my faction, and killing enemies, are we now saying that the game mechanics are wrong and we should be nice to enemy factions?
Nothing wrong with what you did, but I do buy stuff from there so don't do whe I am there :) . Also that GM is a complet ass giving you a warning, but then again what can we do, I know I woulda told him where to shove it.
it does have a GR, i made them all GR out there while i was camping it one day...:p
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - if you want to complain about the GM system then please do so to the helpdesk ]
Originally posted by Archeus
I was there last night, think it's been removed. But I was certainly met with firepower ready from Phoenix when I went to pick up my order. So it is not like they ran whining to a GM.
We didn't visit the shop last night (and we probably wont be visiting it again), I think you must be thinking of another clan...
Just curious. Add it all up and gives how many times you have done it each day and for how long will you?
In all honestly, over the past week, I think we've been at the appartment at MOST for 15 minutes... spread over a week. I remember one time when I went there alone, and the guy opened the door, so i ganked him then left, another few times when there was nobody there so we left instantly, and then 2 or 3 times when there have been people there, we stayed for a few minutes then left when they didn't open the door.
next time you go along i wanna come. Sounds like fun.
where is the shop? i have a house up there, I wonder if they are my neighbours.
Originally posted by Lenard
Also I dont think you got my point. You seem to think its some economy issue? It's strictly a power issue. BD isnt pwning that store so they can benefit money wise, they do it to cut off the supply of cars/guns/drones/ and whatever other equipment to their rival factions.
That's not the reason at all. Gonk's already stated he's not a roleplayer, so the normal "justifications" for griefing have gone out of the window. No, this was done for no reason other than for the hell of it, by people with nothing better to do. It's pure boredom-induced, selfish, and mindless destruction, with no thought for how it will affect anyone or anything - please don't try to dress it up as anything else.
Originally posted by Gonk
We didn't visit the shop last night (and we probably wont be visiting it again), I think you must be thinking of another clan...
Nope it was Phoenix.
In all honestly, over the past week, I think we've been at the appartment at MOST for 15 minutes... spread over a week.
Find the number a bit lower then I expected. Don't assume your the only person doing this. Last night we had a number of attacks from various people in TH (dont think any managed to get to the shop though).
You sound like you play just to piss people off. Sorry but that is how you come across. You aren't intrested in challange at all, just easy kills. "I attack anything regardless of level" is a poor excuse. I am sure you would go running fast enough if you were offered a challange.
If you were intrested in a challange you would declare you were going to hit TH before doing it. That way you might actually meet someone who can challange you instead of ganking people who are trades people.
I meant another clan camping the app... It wasn't us last night.
And if other people are doing it then please can you not assume it is always us, that was an honest figure.
And surely the fact that I die sometimes when I go to TH means it is challenge enough...
Gonk is far from the problem.
He usualy just run in and kill 1 or 2 newbies,
and then flee at the first sign of trouble.
Camping isnt a problem either for me.
But what I hate is the amount of raids we get.
Currently were around 4 or 5 raids a day in average.
And it wasnt because of the Phoenix store that the amount of raids increased.
We made that huge mistake of fighting back.
So now we have every small clan that cant fight at op wars,
because of the current situation, looking for some PvP in TH.
So people if you want to have a fight.
Its fine with me and most of TgR.
But stop camping zone spots.
If you continue to do so,
We will only get another PP zone fight,
or no one shows up anymore.
All of you know by now that TH1 is the most bugged place to zone in to in all of NC.
Odds of you being able to see anyone... 50%
Odds that the enemy can see you no matter what 75%
And since you said we should call on allies,
well last time we did, we had PKers whining to us on direct,
They couldnt take being overrun by a stronger enemy.
They only like to do it to FA.
So please try and stay in TH2 so we atleast get a chance to fight back.
And KK with alll this raiding please change our zones to war zones.
Since its our spies and ppu monks that suffer the most from belt drops.
And god knows we have lots of spies.
Yea some solutions to the problems.
1. Turn TH into a warzone. The PK'ers tend not to hang around to belt steal anyway and it will allow us to fight those who give us SL hits for doing so.
2. Put Turrets down and soup them up. Copbot strength turrets in certain places. If you want I can even do up a map of where they should be placed. Is this something our FC is allowed canvess for?
3. Lock the Genreps to Faction only. Or allow the heads of the faction to control the Genreps so we can lock them down when a fight starts. I mean lock them down in and out going for enemies.
They want a fight, they shouldn't be allowed to hit easy targets and run. I would say allow this for other Faction areas too (So CM can control MB).
they will probably apartment camp to get away but will allow us to control the problem a lot more.
Warzone is probably the best short term solution.
For me at least, I dont think changing it to a warzone would make a difference. Since I'm a tank and I dont hack, I just leave the belts. If it was a warzone it may even encourage me to go there more often, since I do die there sometimes, and I'd like it if i didn't drop anything.
Just wondering... myself and a clan mate (we r BD if u didnt know) took a look at the shop rang the door etc and tried to convince the owner to give us access :) Then he says something on the lines "OCC Im taking screens of this and sending them to abuse@neocron.com" And ok we would of pk'ed him had he let us in but this is the first time we have ever gone in the shop to take a look what all the fuss is about... So whats the deal here its all BS, we can get warnd/banned by GM's for just playing the game how we wanna play it, if we wanna go in some1's apt and kill em then thats our right, at the end of the day we pay to play so that gives us the right to play how we want, as long as we are not exploiting etc. Also wtf do u class as abuse in the game? Id class it as some nob spamming my Direct saying personal things about me or spamming being racist comments etc , not PK'ing.
And ok people say its spoiling the game for them, but we are just simply acting out what out frikkin faction is meant to be doing. Id maybe agree to what the GM's said if Gonk was camping the shop 24/7 but he doesnt and like I said in an earlier post, if yer that botherd about being pk'ed hire FF or something instead of crying about it..
Ok I had my moan :D
Not harrassment not even close.
All your doing is hitting a main part of an area in an assualt if someone happend to be there more than other though shit. Is this harrasment NO.
What is harrassment I would label harrassment as this
Take Player A and Player B
A is regular Joe, B is a PK
If player B was to hit tech haven and kill player A there
-Then go to player A's Ap and kill him there
-Then find out where player A lvls and then kill him there
In other words single out 1 player and make it so he cant go anywhere and do anything for more than 5 mins without being killed and making it so that cant do anything other than sit in an ap and twidle there thumbs that is harrassment.
Not attacking an enemy faction HQ continualy in this game there is zero need to sit about TH attacking wont prevent much of anything from other players.
About a GM saying something email or talk to one of the head honchos about your problem. I have been banned theartend by doing something that there was no rule about then later talked to one of the high end boys and they said it was fine.
Originally posted by Gonk
If it was a warzone it may even encourage me to go there more often, since I do die there sometimes, and I'd like it if i didn't drop anything.
You will find the TH people don't mind a fight, providing you leave the people who can't fight alone or don't sit outside peoples apartments. Actually we would prefer to see it as a neutral terroritory (however people bring fights to the place and then think we are taking sides by our action/inaction).
You are not the overall problem. We get raided often by various factions. Some are supposed to be friendly to us, some are but cause problems that we cannot intervene without taking a SL hit.
As for Dis, the fact he was talking about screenies is because all he sees is an enemy faction outside the door night after night. If you wanted to go in to have a look you might wanted to have contacted someone beforehand. You are just seeing a symptom of the over all problem.
Kimmyg, try playing in the FA faction for a month. see how long you can stick it. Odds on if you did you would just sit in Plaza I when you weren't fighting.
•Super|\|ova•
07-11-03, 17:43
Originally posted by garyu69
In RL if a store is harassed i'm sure they would look into moving their business elsewhere.
Maybe thats what you should do instead of whinning about it.
It all comes do to there not being enough policing of TH and until that happens you shouldn't moan. Its part of the game.
You have really weird image of RL then. I bet my damn computer that in RL the shopkeeper would call a police to deal with those narrowminded people and they would end up in jail.
Originally posted by DIS
Just wondering... myself and a clan mate (we r BD if u didnt know) took a look at the shop rang the door etc and tried to convince the owner to give us access :) Then he says something on the lines "OCC Im taking screens of this and sending them to abuse@neocron.com" And ok we would of pk'ed him had he let us in but this is the first time we have ever gone in the shop to take a look what all the fuss is about... So whats the deal here its all BS, we can get warnd/banned by GM's for just playing the game how we wanna play it, if we wanna go in some1's apt and kill em then thats our right, at the end of the day we pay to play so that gives us the right to play how we want, as long as we are not exploiting etc. Also wtf do u class as abuse in the game? Id class it as some nob spamming my Direct saying personal things about me or spamming being racist comments etc , not PK'ing.
And ok people say its spoiling the game for them, but we are just simply acting out what out frikkin faction is meant to be doing. Id maybe agree to what the GM's said if Gonk was camping the shop 24/7 but he doesnt and like I said in an earlier post, if yer that botherd about being pk'ed hire FF or something instead of crying about it..
Ok I had my moan :D
There are many, many ways to harass someone, and it doesn't have to be targetted at just one person either, it's perfectly possible for entire Clans to be harassed. I can't comment on the situation you mention because I wasn't there, but I'd say it depends entirely on what was said between the Crackheads and the person behind the door, and how many times previously you'd tried the same thing.
Yes, you can get warned or banned for playing the game as you would like to, if you're playing the game in a way that is against the rules set out by KK.
Think about it like this: Chances are you're not the first person to try to weasel your way into someone's house that day to redecorate their ceiling in a gooey shade of "Brainmatter Grey", especially if they're trying to run a shop. After the umpteenth PKer trying it on, whoever is behind the door is going to be so hacked off that whoever tries the same tired trick next is going to get reported (especially if it's not the first time by that PKer).
Edit: Removed a paragraph of Flamebait before it was done by the Mods. :)
if its a shop maybe you should hire some security instead on crying, bitching etc :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Shockwave
Yes, you can get warned or banned for playing the game as you would like to, if you're playing the game in a way that is against the rules set out by KK.
Could you show me these rules please?
Originally posted by Gonk
Could you show me these rules please?
You agreed to them when you joined the game. You did read them right?
http://www.neocron.com/index.php?name=NeoContent&op=modload&file=index&pageID=23
thanks for the link :)
1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.
I guess we're talking about this one then? In that case, every time I dont get poked in Plaza it causes me distress, ban them please.
I know, thats a totally over the top statement. But my point is where do you draw the line? Harassment to one person is not harassment to another...
Thats such an ambiguous (sp) rule that it could be interpreted any way you like in order to get your point accross. There are no clear rules as to whats allowed and whats not with regards to PKing, give me an official stance on that and I will abide by it.
If you make the apt password common knowledge you have to expect the harrasment, simple as.
Originally posted by Nexxy
If you make the apt password common knowledge you have to expect the harrasment, simple as.
"If you wear a short skirt you have to expect to be raped." o_O
Are you serious ?
Originally posted by Gonk
Could you show me these rules please?
I believe they are reffering to the rule that was impiosed in the early days that says you cant camp starter aps this is in place cause a noob with little cash and no marked gr may not be able go else where.
However this is not some new players starter ap it is a clan shop that makes it pass know.
Clans being harrased that is pure stupidity when you mark yourself and go to war with an other clan it means there most likely gonna kill your clan. What do you want a limit on how many times your aloud to kill a clan member? I dont believe that once you mark yourself with a clan that your under the same rules a solo guy just doing your own thing.
As for me being TH why would I want to hide under the neutral and allied faction list that TH has, TH is nothing mroe than I want to be a badass out of city faction but I dont want the enemys of other non city clans. But if I was TH I sure as hell wouldn't sit around one of the hotest hit zones in the game that is stupid just as stupid as lvlin at bunker.
Originally posted by Chaplin
"If you wear a short skirt you have to expect to be raped." o_O
Are you serious ?
[Edited - Flaming]
Yout cant compare an ingame situation to a real life one.
Originally posted by KimmyG
But if I was TH I sure as hell wouldn't sit around one of the hotest hit zones in the game that is stupid just as stupid as lvlin at bunker.
Thanks for proving a point. You couldn't handle being a Fallen Angel.
Originally posted by Gonk
I guess we're talking about this one then? In that case, every time I dont get poked in Plaza it causes me distress, ban them please.
I know, thats a totally over the top statement. But my point is where do you draw the line? Harassment to one person is not harassment to another...
Thats such an ambiguous (sp) rule that it could be interpreted any way you like in order to get your point accross. There are no clear rules as to whats allowed and whats not with regards to PKing, give me an official stance on that and I will abide by it.
The line is drawn on a case-by-case basis by the GM team. You HAVE been given an official stance, hence your warning. Oh, and a warning or an outright ban isn't something the GMs are going to do lightly, you know. They will be expected to have supporting evidence to back their actions up (KK are the only people with the power to ban people, and they aren't going to do that without definite proof).
Originally posted by Nexxy
If you make the apt password common knowledge you have to expect the harrasment, simple as.
As long as it doesn't go into the territory of Griefplay, yes. See above.
What it all comes down to is the ease at which TH can be raided. They can GR in with no problems for one. No security what-so-ever. Personally I think raiding TH is actually sort of a pussy thing to do compared to other places you can attack people. If you want an actual challenge then try ganking people in Tangent HQ with 5 or 6 guards shooting at you.
Then we have TG PPUs buffing and healing BD people. What the hell is up with that? Thats just bull shit. And the reason we are actually at war with TG is because they think they can just come in and kill any one.
Plain and simple FA is the shit hole of Neocron faction politics. Hire security? Who in the hell are we going to hire? Half our faction is friends with CA, the other half wants to war them, we get into constant fights with CM because they help Crahn all the time, TG fights us because they don't respect us, and you say hire some help? Screw the other factions. They can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. We can take care of our own problems.
I mean seriously come on guys? What you can't attack people else where? Are the big bad TGs too powerful for every one? Just don't attack TH on my watch cause you will die..unless you bring Pete with you. ;)
Originally posted by Shockwave
You HAVE been given an official stance, hence your warning.
No, I've been told by one GM that I'm being warned for harrassment, and I've been told by another GM previously that app killing is ok... Which one is the official stance?
Originally posted by Jest
What it all comes down to is the ease at which TH can be raided. They can GR in with no problems for one. No security what-so-ever. Personally I think raiding TH is actually sort of a pussy thing to do compared to other places you can attack people. If you want an actual challenge then try ganking people in Tangent HQ with 5 or 6 guards shooting at you.
...
mean seriously come on guys? What you can't attack people else where? Are the big bad TGs too powerful for every one? Just don't attack TH on my watch cause you will die..unless you bring Pete with you.
We do attack TG as well, its just that there is never as many people there, and when there is they dont complain about it :)
Originally posted by Gonk
No, I've been told by one GM that I'm being warned for harrassment, and I've been told by another GM previously that app killing is ok... Which one is the official stance?
Both.
Your smart. You work it out.
Originally posted by Jest
What it all comes down to is the ease at which TH can be raided. They can GR in with no problems for one. No security what-so-ever. Personally I think raiding TH is actually sort of a pussy thing to do compared to other places you can attack people. If you want an actual challenge then try ganking people in Tangent HQ with 5 or 6 guards shooting at you.
Then we have TG PPUs buffing and healing BD people. What the hell is up with that? Thats just bull shit. And the reason we are actually at war with TG is because they think they can just come in and kill any one.
Plain and simple FA is the shit hole of Neocron faction politics. Hire security? Who in the hell are we going to hire? Half our faction is friends with CA, the other half wants to war them, we get into constant fights with CM because they help Crahn all the time, TG fights us because they don't respect us, and you say hire some help? Screw the other factions. They can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. We can take care of our own problems.
I mean seriously come on guys? What you can't attack people else where? Are the big bad TGs too powerful for every one? Just don't attack TH on my watch cause you will die..unless you bring Pete with you. ;)
[Edited - Threatening]
If you dont wanna hire security or defend it then its your problem if people come and own all your newbs...
And you know how PKing works jest, just dont hit TH its like a little trip. PP-Gabanium-TH-Cycrow-TG-MB.
[Edited - Flaming]
Originally posted by Jest
What it all comes down to is the ease at which TH can be raided. They can GR in with no problems for one. No security what-so-ever. Personally I think raiding TH is actually sort of a pussy thing to do compared to other places you can attack people. If you want an actual challenge then try ganking people in Tangent HQ with 5 or 6 guards shooting at you.
Then we have TG PPUs buffing and healing BD people. What the hell is up with that? Thats just bull shit. And the reason we are actually at war with TG is because they think they can just come in and kill any one.
Plain and simple FA is the shit hole of Neocron faction politics. Hire security? Who in the hell are we going to hire? Half our faction is friends with CA, the other half wants to war them, we get into constant fights with CM because they help Crahn all the time, TG fights us because they don't respect us, and you say hire some help? Screw the other factions. They can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. We can take care of our own problems.
I mean seriously come on guys? What you can't attack people else where? Are the big bad TGs too powerful for every one? Just don't attack TH on my watch cause you will die..unless you bring Pete with you. ;)
We don't only pk at TH, we pk everywhere. We usually goto TH first, after we killed everyone or theres no one to kill we move onto our next pking spot. It's just that TH seem to complain about it more then anyone else.
Originally posted by Jest
Then we have TG PPUs buffing and healing BD people. What the hell is up with that? Thats just bull shit. And the reason we are actually at war with TG is because they think they can just come in and kill any one.
umm thats not right when i logged my BD tank on last night he was Red to TG, is it diffrent on pluto or are TG to pussy to fight BD
those TG ppus should of been trying to put the BD down the moment they saw them
SigmaDraconis
07-11-03, 18:44
Hmm...MB has the most shit security of all the areas outside NC....even has the most people....ever wonder why TH is so often raided compared to the other faction HQ's?.................
What the hell are some of you going to do should DoY attract a large crowd and perhaps bring in a few big time clans that truley know how to rule a server and will redefine the meaning of the word ganked?
@whoever that TH is on me not being able to handle TH
Whenever I went to TH you sure has hell couldn't handle me.
Also lots of placeing get hit up on attacks TH is the only place that cry about it.
Originally posted by Archeus
Your smart. You work it out.
No I'm not, spell it out please.
Originally posted by ezza
umm thats not right when i logged my BD tank on last night he was Red to TG, is it diffrent on pluto or are TG to pussy to fight BD
Too pussy. Seriously the factions are all messed up. There is so much political fighting that a lot people are willing to take SL hits to settle scores (others exploit to do it -_- )
They should allow the faction leaders to choose who they are friendly/hostile with.
@whoever that TH is on me not being able to handle TH
Whenever I went to TH you sure has hell couldn't handle me.
So if you follow your flawed line of thinking, if you were FA then all the aggro would stop because you are so cool and stuff and l33t killer and people would just go "oooo!" when you went "Aaaarrghh" and the world would be a shiney happy place with you as its leader. :rolleyes:
You know full well TH is an easy target to hit, you lack the skill for any real challange or you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss FA.
Originally posted by Gonk
No, I've been told by one GM that I'm being warned for harrassment, and I've been told by another GM previously that app killing is ok... Which one is the official stance?
God almighty, it's like beating my head against a brick wall...
Ok. App killing is allowed by default. If, however, it devolves into griefing and harassment (As a GM ruled it has done this time), it is not allowed. It is not possible to set an exactly defined line in 10' stone tablets because it's not the sort of rule you can DO that with - it can only be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
Clearer?
And anyway, if there was an exact line I can guarentee you there would be people doing everything they can to keep JUST on the right side of a ban whilst still App Camping...
Originally posted by Shockwave
Clearer?
Nope.
There was no app camping. The one time I app camped someones body after I killed them (a long time ago), was when the GM said it was OK. Compare this to a much less harrassing act in TH, where we stayed for a few minutes, then no, I dont think it is any clearer.
1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.
Well, that rules out pvp in my opinion.
Originally posted by Gonk
Nope.
There was no app camping. The one time I app camped someones body after I killed them (a long time ago), was when the GM said it was OK. Compare this to a much less harrassing act in TH, where we stayed for a few minutes, then no, I dont think it is any clearer.
Ok, after this post I'm giving up on this thread. I'm having trouble finding even more ways of saying the same thing, and it's starting to get boring.
You were outside Phoenix, kicking about, and yelling at them to open the door. They screenied this and reported you. A GM investigated the allegation, and found you in contravention of the rules, because you had gone from basic App Killing to Loitering With Intent To Grief. You got a warning.
Live with it. And if you can't, there are any number of other games you can play. May I recommend Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament 2003, Planetside, or even Counter-Strike, all of which seem to suit your style of on-line play.
Shockwave out.
Originally posted by Shockwave
You were outside Phoenix, kicking about, and yelling at them to open the door. They screenied this and reported you. A GM investigated the allegation, and found you in contravention of the rules, because you had gone from basic App Killing to Loitering With Intent To Grief. You got a warning.
Live with it. And if you can't, there are any number of other games you can play. May I recommend Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament 2003, Planetside, or even Counter-Strike, all of which seem to suit your style of on-line play.
Shockwave out.
They went from ap camping to assulating a rival clans shop.
"Loitering with intent to grief" HJAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHhAH the the oddest thing I have ever heard.
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Hold out and maybe they will put an online feature to this exciting game and you can clan up and solve them mysterys.
Originally posted by Nexxy
You are so lucky im in a different time zone...
If you dont wanna hire security or defend it then its your problem if people come and own all your newbs...
And you know how PKing works jest, just dont hit TH its like a little trip. PP-Gabanium-TH-Cycrow-TG-MB.
My point wasnt that we dont want to hire security or defend. My point is that there is for one no one to hire. TG in TH only creates more problems than it solves and all the other factions attack us. We are truly the shit hole of politics.
And while TH may only be one on the list of places to go for you, that doesn't mean we aren't constantly getting bombared from other people too. SS, DarK, eXo (it's cute when eXo tries), and some other Euro clans who Ive never even actually seen raid TH personally.
I have 3 lowbies in my clan right now and they are getting pretty fed up with dying in TH because like I said before we get attacked every hour on the hour.
I always laugh when people accuse people of being in FA only because they dont want to be attacked by TG. My ass to that. I have been Tangent, I have been TG, I have been BD, and I assure you that FA is by far the hardest faction in the game. Which is why you see these threads pop up pretty often. Those other 3 factions are for pussies. :lol:
Thread re-opened. Lets cut out the flaming please.
Fafnir...
Originally posted by Jest
I have 3 lowbies in my clan right now and they are getting pretty fed up with dying in TH because like I said before we get attacked every hour on the hour.
So why lvl there? Everyone knows TH gets hit hard so go lvl some place else.
Originally posted by Nexxy
[Edited - Threatening]
Hahaha you got edited for threatening me. I was scared too. I thought you were really gonna try to hurt me in real life. It almost made me cry. :( Hehe.
Originally posted by KimmyG
So why lvl there? Everyone knows TH gets hit hard so go lvl some place else. Well they actually don't level there but they are FA after all. It's ironic. I think our enemies spend more time in TH than we do. :eek:
Maybe you should work hard to get all the TG outta Plaza 1 and into TH 2/3?
Just a thought.
Originally posted by Gonk
No I'm not, spell it out please.
Occation ganking/camping is accepted, doing it regularly is not.
Clear enough?
KRIMINAL99
07-11-03, 21:56
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - take up your issues with the helpdesk. The GM system and GMs in general are not acceptable topics for discussion ]
Personally I think raiding a enemy faction player run market is perfect roleplaying and its certainly not against the rules they already set up.... Harrasment is like when you pm people constantly and use racial slurs and stuff...
[ edited ]
JackScratch
07-11-03, 23:24
sounds like besides being a griefer, you [ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]. Why are you worried about GMs? Yopu are what I call a random (red=dead) PKer. I hate you people, you get some 0/2s on your big bad raids? You people suck, and are not participateing in the spirit of the game at all. You are participateing in the spirit of about 3 other games out there, why dont you go play them? Now Im not talking about PvP, Im talking about killing people you never even met. People who do what you are doing are why Saturn blows. You are screwing up a whole game for your own enjoyment and thats just rude.
Originally posted by JackScratch
sounds like besides being a griefer, [ edited ]. Why are you worried about GMs? Yopu are what I call a random (red=dead) PKer. I hate you people, you get some 0/2s on your big bad raids? You people suck, and are not participateing in the spirit of the game at all. You are participateing in the spirit of about 3 other games out there, why dont you go play them? Now Im not talking about PvP, Im talking about killing people you never even met. People who do what you are doing are why Saturn blows. You are screwing up a whole game for your own enjoyment and thats just rude.
Dude, it's a cyberpunk game. I used to pk EVERYONE...green, red, didn't matter before SL. I looted and sexed so many bodies for at least 8 months.
The only thing i can say is that after all of that, after killing people constantly, people still greet me and think i'm cool on the forums. How am i hurting them? OMG, i pk'd j00!! OMG OMG HAX! now you'll hafta hunt me down!! Bad bad pk'ar manz!!
Anyways, just try to look at it from our perspective. It's a cyberpunk game and noone's got the "scared" feeling anymore. Noone constantly looks behind their back. That's what it SHOULD be like (imho) and you need to realize this. Kthxbye. BTW, i'm trying not to flame you or anything...it's just you people have been the same type that got us the safe slot, nerfed my liberator, ruined op wars, and gave us those stupid belts. GRAHHH.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 23:44
Originally posted by zii
1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.
Well, that rules out pvp in my opinion.
Exactly, lmao.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Exactly, lmao.
the trick is to compliment them as you're killing them
Go "I LIKE YOUR OUTFIT!" while you shoot them with your libby :D. they don't know what to think and they freeze up.
Fafnir warned you. Thread closed.
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