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I just got out of the game after having fought with a PPU. (Although, it was more like do 30 damage here, 40 damage there, then watch him heal it all in less than two seconds.) Now, having done so, I want to pose a question to people.
Do or do not PPUs, regardless of whether they use paraspam (tm), rip out the fun of 1v1 and 2v2 PvP?
Now, my personal thought is yes, they do. Mainly because of their god damned para spells. But the heal is also another factor. I was seeing someone heal 40 HP per tick from a PPU's heal, which virtually negates all damage you do to someone if they have a decent resist setup, and if they have a shelter and/or deflector, you might as well spit at them, cause that's gonna do about as much damage.
I for one, refuse to fight with a PPU helping me (other than a rez) in 1v1 and 2v2 type Pepper Park battles because there's no enjoyment whatsoever in it. In most cases it's decided by which PPU is better. (Assuming that both sides have PPUs. If only one side has a PPU, then it's pretty damn obvious who's gonna win.)
I'm tired of PPU-o-cron, and BlueGlue (TM), and all the other little shit that's kinda simply built-up. DoY would be nice, but most of all, I want the fun put back in the game.
--Stryfe
As I'm trying not to have this be a biased poll, please post your reasons for voting the way you did.
I'm too tired. Can't spell worth a damn right now.
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 07:20
Yes I feel the same way.
I'm sure everyone knows how I feel. :p
-=Blasehase=-
06-11-03, 07:20
with a PPU even the MOST WORST PLAYER EVER comes up to a unkillable superhero...
and thats the most worst thing in this game...
in the past hybrids where strong... but not unkillable....
only the elite players had godmode...
and now?
give some n00bs a half skilled PPU and they rocks even they had no playerskill
if it dont get changed this will be the death of good PvP in neocron
Originally posted by -=Blasehase=-
if it dont get changed this will be the death of good PvP in neocron Heh... "will be"? It is already dead, my friend.
When a PPU comes into PP looking for a fight, I leave, simple as that.
--Stryfe
-=Blasehase=-
06-11-03, 07:29
SOMETIMES u get a good fight without PPUs...
so it isnt fully death yet ;)
Originally posted by -=Blasehase=-
SOMETIMES u get a good fight without PPUs...
so it isnt fully death yet ;) True, true. I guess I jumped the gun a little. Credits go out to Zokk for (usually) good fights, as long as no PPUs are around.
BTW, what the *hell* is your avatar, Blase?
--Stryfe
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 08:04
PvP is dead for me, which is why I cancelled my account and haven't logged in in a good while.
Like, 20 minutes ago there was the most interesting battle of teh PE's in Pepper Park.
It was real fun - but one event disturbed me.
Two pe's were emptying their libs into a monk who was outhealing it.
That's shotty - real shotty.
:(
superfresh
06-11-03, 09:09
I agree and I dont. I think it's a shame PvP has come down to toting PPU's around. I haven't really seen a good PvPer because there is no such thing when PPUs are factored in. So to that effect I agree with Stryfe.
On the other hand, PPU's can't do much of anything for damage, so I don't find 2 PE's having trouble killing one in PP all that troubling. It's not like a PPU could kill either of them...
without a ppu a fight lasts 30 seconds
with a ppu a fight can last to an hour
which is most fun to play? hmm lemme think ... :rolleyes:
without ppus there wouldnt even be any fun in pvp, you get 30 seconds of action and 10 minutes of yelling "NEED POKER"
worship your ppu, he is whats keeping pvp alive
Originally posted by Anna
worship your ppu, he is whats keeping pvp alive
Which is great if you have one, and sucks if you don't.
It doesn't come down to skill, it comes down to who has a ppu available at the time - and the ones who do will win hands down.
ericdraven
06-11-03, 09:42
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
PvP is dead for me, which is why I cancelled my account and haven't logged in in a good while.
I miss your "nerf PPUs!!" threads.... :( :p
I agree ... personaly i dont' think the healer should be some godlike being . . even if he can't really attack ... Healers should be sorta weak also ... but they should have some benifits to make them attractive to play ... and no I don't think being a superhuman is a good way to go . . it shoudl of stayed hybrid .. with maybe 4 schools of psi .. 2 aggressive and 2 passive ... where you have to choose 1 aggressive and 1 passive .. Like heals and boosters in 1 . .. .and sheilds, soulclusters, paraspam in the other .. ... fire and force <psi attack a fewother force psi spells would be good :D > in one aggressive and energy and poison in the other . . or whatever else .. i dont' know i'm babbling .. it should be the idea to PROTECT your healer .. not your healer protecting you the exact way that it's happening now ..
PPUs spoil the game in a large way. They give an unfair advantage that cannot be balanced without a PPU on the OTHER team.
The thing that blows my mind is the fact that the ppu is the HEALER CLASS, and also is invulnerable. In most games the HEALER is a weak class, and the group must PROTECT the healer in order to keep him/her alive and prosper from the buffs. The healer should in no way be invulnerable.
Its a tough problem to fix.
Oh yeah and....parashock doesnt do anything but ruin pvp. Root, Mezmerise, Stun, Etc... spells are all great in 'point-and-click' based mmorpgs such as everquest and asherons call, but these kinds of movement hinderances have no place in a FPS mmorpg such as Neocron.
My two cents.
Amen brother g0rt .. show these hevens to the light or they shall be left to rot in the dark world of neocron .. oh wait they want to rot :D plz rot . . we need more players
Originally posted by amfest
Amen brother g0rt .. show these hevens to the light or they shall be left to rot in the dark world of neocron .. oh wait they want to rot :D plz rot . . we need more players
:)
I think most people who actively PVP can agree with us, having your movement speed cut takes the skill AND enjoyment out of pvp...and without pvp, whats left in Neocron? Please...anything but ANOTHER fire mob :o :D
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 13:55
IMO make all peeps hybrids, and remove shelter / deflecter
monks are aggressive / passive, but not god like
holy heal + HL is a force to fear, but they will be killable ^.^
and btw... my vote was yes :lol:
Junkie
This is why PPUs should not be able to outheal 2 opponents. With PPUs invincible in 2v2 fights, the fight doesn't last an hour. It lasts forever, because nobody dies. Or, if one team has a PPU and the other doesn't, it lasts less than 30 seconds due to parashock and damage boost. Which is more fun, 6 people running around each other, dodging, firing when they get the chance, trying to avoid each others shots and at the same time land as many as thery can, which usually lasts up to 10 minutes, or 10 people moving occasionally until they get frozen, blasting the shit out of each other but never actually doing any damage, lasting an hour? I'd take the first choice any day of the week.
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 14:11
Originally posted by Scikar
This is why PPUs should not be able to outheal 2 opponents. With PPUs invincible in 2v2 fights, the fight doesn't last an hour. It lasts forever, because nobody dies. Or, if one team has a PPU and the other doesn't, it lasts less than 30 seconds due to parashock and damage boost. Which is more fun, 6 people running around each other, dodging, firing when they get the chance, trying to avoid each others shots and at the same time land as many as thery can, which usually lasts up to 10 minutes, or 10 people moving occasionally until they get frozen, blasting the shit out of each other but never actually doing any damage, lasting an hour? I'd take the first choice any day of the week.
Amen to that
yup they ruin the fun real good, run into fight someone next thing you parad boosted then dead:(
not to mention the fact that you cant do damage to them, im sure there are people who will argue that they can take any PPU down:rolleyes: but the person with the PPU will always win if the other person aint got one, even if you kill the PPU boosted guy, they just res him and off he goes again.
when you got your own PPU you dont even have to try very hard, just stand there and shoot, cos dont worry MR PPU will make you better:p
when i kill someone i dont expect to have to do it all again 3 seconds later.
and as for fights lasting longer, well as much as i would like to duel the same person for a hour ive got other stuff to do, hell you can stop 1/2 way though go get a drink some food and your PPU should of kept you alive;)
gimme the fast action fights, its those short adreneline rushes you get from the fast action.
its not even exciting or interesting when theres ppus involved.
i never fight with one strapped to me, just doesnt feel right:eek: but as long as the game stands in its current state people will continue to fight with a ppu up there ass
PPU's have theyre place in the game. They heal and buff. BUT NOT FOR SMALL SCALE PVP!
PPU's involved in small scale PvP DESTROY all the enjoyable aspects of it.. which used to be the single most enjoyable part of the game.
PPU's have theyre place in large scale battles, OP fights, Faction wars.. (like that'll ever happen :rolleyes: ) but definately not raping the small scale end of things. Makes it pointless to even bother.
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 15:39
having problems with a ppu ???
Holy Antibuff is ur answer....
look for one in a store near u...........
u dont like fighting agaisnt a apu + ppu or whatever combo.... just get ur personal ppu and stick real deep up ur arse..... i do
fighting anyone with a ppu when u have ur self a ppu its really challenge kuz it requires team Skill wich is very harder then solo skill
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 15:41
no its not a challenge... be quiet.
its an hour long no one gets hurt, everyone is parashocked THING!
it is boring as hell
Dostan'Ilindith
06-11-03, 15:45
thats not true actually. i once as a PPU took a private eye into battle, about rank 55, gave him the whole kaboodle.
shelter, deflector, boosters, and constant heals...and for some reason..he still couldnt beat this other pe who was completely unbuffed.
i will not name this guy, cos i feel sorry for him...lol
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 15:45
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
no its not a challenge... be quiet.
its an hour long no one gets hurt, everyone is parashocked THING!
it is boring as hell
concentrated anti schock fluid or holy cathr sanctum should do the trick....
and besides its rare when a ppu can outheal a HL damage or a fire apoc stick combo.............hm yes problably apu damage but even a cs can somehow do decent damage
yes i agree it sucks when u are solo... but havent u got any friends..... ma defenition of roleplaying game to incrise fun, is playing with friends..... solo is only fun when u are new at the game......so go on and do some team work
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 16:03
oh i have friends... i have a RL mate who is a fully capped PPU...
however i am not gonna ask him to stop playing his tank in PP1 PvP and log his PPU cos its too hard!
i shouldnt have to. i am all for PvP, i love it. i am NOT all for 1 class (PPU) swinging the entire battle.
as for the PE story - he must have been REALLY badly spec'd or a terrible shot is all im gonna say (although PE buffs are almost as good as PPU buffs when cast on a PE)
i am not saying remove PPUs, im not askin to be able to kill one in a 1 on 1... all i would like is balance (and for some people to get their fingers out of KK's ass long enough to see this.
i have played every character to cap now, including PE unfortunatly (they are boring IMHO)
i find the most fun, and challenging is pistol spy, which is why he is my main character, and i have no other high level combat characters. however a pistol spy against a fully holy buffed APU is such a stupid battle... whats the point?
my spy (when he is capped) will be a match for any APU IMO, however PPU buffs make the battle stupidly one sided, or 2 PPU's make the battle boring. i hate batteling with PPU's and only use them when doing cae runs or (occasionally) when i know a RL mate is using one to hunt i will find him and join him
Junkie
Originally posted by Devils Grace
concentrated anti schock fluid or holy cathr sanctum should do the trick....
and besides its rare when a ppu can outheal a HL damage or a fire apoc stick combo.............hm yes problably apu damage but even a cs can somehow do decent damage
yes i agree it sucks when u are solo... but havent u got any friends..... ma defenition of roleplaying game to incrise fun, is playing with friends..... solo is only fun when u are new at the game......so go on and do some team work So...I can pop a 2k drug, be able to run around at full speed for about...3 seconds before the PPU notices and fucking glues me to the floor AND fucks up my aim beyond all belief AGAIN, or I can rely on my own PPU to have Cath Sanc up and running, or have a PPU on standby, waiting the cast Cath on me? How about, NO. I don't play simply to call out over buddy chat "Hey, anyone have a PPU so I can fight in PP?" I see a PPU, I'm gone. There's no point in fighting.
I don't want to have to find an APU to debuff the PPU just to kill him and have him be back in a few minutes, after having poked himself. Like a lot of other people around are putting in their sig, "HOW ABOUT A SOLUTION THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE MONKEYS?!?"
Monkocron royally sucks ass and I'm getting tired of it. Tired enough to maybe leave soon.
--Stryfe
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 16:29
spy o_O
why do ppl insist on close combat spys ?? yes its fun but against a good pvp player bufed or not buffed ur dead.
spys are made to trade skillerz and snipe, come on with that con how can u win any close combat, only against no skill player or if u are very good or use very well the stealth:lol:
i tought u were talking about one on one combat with tanks or pe's or apu
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 16:32
Originally posted by StryfeX
So...I can pop a 2k drug, be able to run around at full speed for about...3 seconds before the PPU notices and fucking glues me to the floor AND fucks up my aim beyond all belief AGAIN,
--Stryfe
if they can hit u that fast or that easy u must really suck...anyway i agree on some topics not on all of them
i like the ppu either way u play it
doesnt matter
maybe what ur saying is not remove monks, maybe wht ur saying is remove para
tahts another issue
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 16:35
Originally posted by Devils Grace
spy o_O
why do ppl insist on close combat spys ?? yes its fun but against a good pvp player bufed or not buffed ur dead.
spys are made to trade skillerz and snipe, come on with that con how can u win any close combat, only against no skill player or if u are very good or use very well the stealth:lol:
i tought u were talking about one on one combat with tanks or pe's or apu
i really hope you play uranus... cos you deserve to die by my hands repeatedly
1. my setup is (read will be in 15 more dex / int) 100% combat ready. it has better resists than any PE i have ever seen (before buffing i admit)
2. *sigh* i have a skill 187 unboosted / unlabbed / ungloved research spy, dont talk to me about tradeskills
3. please please be on Uranus? if not... make a tank / PE / APU and level hard... cos i want a nice fair duel with you (when i get my 15 dex / int :p)
tbh your posts make you sound like you are speaking out of your arse. do you even know what armour a combat ready spy wears? do you know what kind of damage my ROLH will do to you? you you know how well i heal with over 100 PSU and a capped 5 slot 120/120/120/94 heal? do you have any clue?
are you aware that with self buffs / heal / 1 medikit i outheal grim chasers? thats with a LIGHT fire belt on...
tbh this is a case of 'Put up or Shut up' :lol:
Junkie
ericdraven
06-11-03, 16:38
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
are you aware that with self buffs / heal / 1 medikit i outheal grim chasers? thats with a LIGHT fire belt on...
Can you show me this please?
I will come and watch it.. with my PPU... just in case... :p
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 16:41
dunno when im next on, but sure mate
are grim chasers lightweights on uranus or what:p :angel:
ericdraven
06-11-03, 16:45
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
dunno when im next on, but sure mate
Yes, let me know.. it's not that i don't believe it (didn't calculate it yet), but just from my feelings it seems unlikely.
I am not playing on Uranus anymore, so yes.. you should tell me when you are on and i will join again. :)
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 16:47
didnt you have 6 uranus chars? lol deleted them when you left the server? O_o
and this is with all buffs running (no shelter, not capped Psi yet, no heal sanct - dropped it lol, only resist booster 1) and a medikit going
you people do realise i wear a full inq 1 set right? O_o - its not great... but its about 50 extra fire resist (well not a full set, i wear PA still)
Originally posted by StryfeX
...Do or do not PPUs, regardless of whether they use paraspam (tm), rip out the fun of 1v1 and 2v2 PvP?
... [/Edit2]
theres a big different on one on on or more 2vs2 if PPU envolved.
its true that a 2+ team with a PPU "spoils" PvP fun because he can heal and rezz and is a hard target....
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 16:54
Originally posted by msdong
theres a big different on one on on or more 2vs2 if PPU envolved.
huh?
ericdraven
06-11-03, 17:00
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
didnt you have 6 uranus chars? lol deleted them when you left the server? O_o
and this is with all buffs running (no shelter, not capped Psi yet, no heal sanct - dropped it lol, only resist booster 1) and a medikit going
you people do realise i wear a full inq 1 set right? O_o - its not great... but its about 50 extra fire resist (well not a full set, i wear PA still)
I have 11 chars on Uranus. :p But why should i delete them, hehe.
Yes but even with Inq1 armor.. and now you say even without shelter.. i really wanna see this.. "outheal Grim Chaser" means for me - using NO COVER at all.. just in case we are talking about different things... otherwise i can say i outheal a Grim with my APU as well..
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 17:09
as i said... as long as my heal is on, when it runs out i have to find cover obv :p i can only out heal it while healing :p
Originally posted by Devils Grace
if they can hit u that fast or that easy u must really suck...Yeah... I suck alright. Just ask that tank who unloaded half a clip of his CS into my back then proceeded to get his ass kicked out of Pepper, BY ME, MYSELF, AND I. No one else, just me. o_O :rolleyes: Just a little clarification, my PE kicked his ass, not my tank.
And as far as the Monkie being able to hit me... All you have to do is point and click. Even a fucking lombotomized chimpanzee can point and click effectively enough to use a PSI Monk (or at least a PPU). o_O 8|
--Stryfe
Jesterthegreat
06-11-03, 17:39
yup... tanks are piss easy to level / play... but monks are point and click...
its like playing somehing older than doom... like a Doom beta O_o
:disclaimer: this is not a dig at Doom... i played and completed all Doom / Wolfenstien games (well not played Doom 3 yet :p)
You know... the Unfortunate part is.....
The most recent Test Server patch has no balancing for PPU monks in it.
I think its long overdue. Monkocron is killing Neocron as well as the supposed DoY "hoax" which I might add is not a "hoax"
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 19:25
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
i really hope you play uranus... cos you deserve to die by my hands repeatedly
3. please please be on Uranus? if not... make a tank / PE / APU and level hard... cos i want a nice fair duel with you (when i get my 15 dex / int :p)
and a capped 5 slot 120/120/120/94 heal? do you have any clue?
are you aware that with self buffs / heal / 1 medikit i outheal grim chasers? thats with a LIGHT fire belt on...
tbh this is a case of 'Put up or Shut up' :lol:
Junkie
i problably am
im not a very smart man i admit, or im to lazy to go to the bottom of things...but i know enough to setup ma chars well
so...u can outheal a grim chaser.....right... ill put ma money where my mouth is... unlucky i play saturn not uranus.... unless u have patiente to escort ma 10/20 melee tank to anywhere the grims are.....
even if u could that means (and correct me if im wrong ) all ur con setup will be directed to fire.... and all energy weapons will kick ur but so fast that u will spend weeks to find it again...
yes RoLH is a good pistol and does good damage...but HL does a lot more u cant even compare.....thats with ma apu without buffs....still if u want i got a melee tank and i even wont cast ma own buffs and ill kick ur little spy ass.....
"better con then PE's" come on, if u are u are gimped on some factores for sure u cant have a balanced setup, so u can change armor to face diferent situations
what i hope is that like most uranus players u got some char on saturn.....its easy to find me there.......
kill grims in open field with a tl 3 heal on even if caped and 100 psu:lol:
Amen to that.... i will apologise public if i see some proff of this (and i only take ericdraven or QD word on that (for me the 2 best minds in this game)
Dead Bodies
06-11-03, 19:26
Originally posted by -=Blasehase=-
with a PPU even the MOST WORST PLAYER EVER comes up to a unkillable superhero...
and thats the most worst thing in this game...
in the past hybrids where strong... but not unkillable....
only the elite players had godmode...
and now?
give some n00bs a half skilled PPU and they rocks even they had no playerskill
if it dont get changed this will be the death of good PvP in neocron
dont know hwy i quoted u just to make sure u know who i was talkign to .. but dood u have the uglyest mother freakgin picture i have ever seen :)
Anyone who has truely mastered this game can fight and kill a Grim Chaser without getting hit at all.
Its not hard. Fighting mobs in Neocron is rediculously easy.... another reason why its a pvp game, not a coop game.
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 19:53
Originally posted by g0rt
Anyone who has truely mastered this game can fight and kill a Grim Chaser without getting hit at all.
Its not hard. Fighting mobs in Neocron is rediculously easy.... another reason why its a pvp game, not a coop game.
ouch, watch what are u saying son....haha
yes we all know that, and its called exploit:lol:
i dont use it, do u use it ?:angel: 8|
we are talking about standing in front of a grim whitout any hills, clifs, trees whatever betwen teh char and the grim, with self bufs medi kit and tl 3 heal caped, and the char is a spy.............
Originally posted by Devils Grace
ouch, watch what are u saying son....haha
yes we all know that, and its called exploit:lol:
i dont use it, do u use it ?:angel: 8|
we are talking about standing in front of a grim whitout any hills, clifs, trees whatever betwen teh char and the grim, with self bufs medi kit and tl 3 heal caped, and the char is a spy.............
Its not an exploit to kill a grim chaser when his right hand is behind a wall. Why? Because he can walk around the wall to get you. But you can out manuver him in order to stay safe.
Learn what an exploit is. If the Grim Chaser was running around back and forth not knowing what direction to go in, it would be an exploit.
Some people in this game honestly think if you are not standing in front of the mob looking it in the face you are exploiting. Ever heard of tactics?
i wont fight any ppu combo unless its someone i really hate, its horrendously stupid to even try without a ppu/apu to help you anyway since if you kill the sad twit then the ppu can useually rezz the person before any class appart from apu can kill them.
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 20:11
Originally posted by g0rt
Its not an exploit to kill a grim chaser when his right hand is behind a wall. Why? Because he can walk around the wall to get you. But you can out manuver him in order to stay safe.
Learn what an exploit is. If the Grim Chaser was running around back and forth not knowing what direction to go in, it would be an exploit.
Some people in this game honestly think if you are not standing in front of the mob looking it in the face you are exploiting. Ever heard of tactics?
if a grim is behind a wall and u can see only is hand u can only hit him with a apu spell (they dont riquere LoS) and that is a exploit.. there is a thread of QD about that ( i dont have time to look for it kuz im at work and im already loosing time on replys lol ). if u have a char that uses cannons rifles or pistols u cant hit them, tho u can exploit to but not that easy....
anyway look for the thread that is off topic and the discussion here is beeing good(dont close it pls) read up with jet said and tell if it is possible or if u like ppus or not in pvp
Originally posted by Devils Grace
if a grim is behind a wall and u can see only is hand u can only hit him with a apu spell (they dont riquere LoS) and that is a exploit.. there is a thread of QD about that ( i dont have time to look for it kuz im at work and im already loosing time on replys lol ). if u have a char that uses cannons rifles or pistols u cant hit them, tho u can exploit to but not that easy....
anyway look for the thread that is off topic and the discussion here is beeing good(dont close it pls) read up with jet said and tell if it is possible or if u like ppus or not in pvp
I can duel a Grim Chaser without getting hit with a tank, pe, spy or monk. The simple way is to keep its right hand out of view to you. Its not an exploit to strategically move out of the way of its fire.
Im sick of hearing about an exploit every two seconds on this board. Im changing my sig RIGHT NOW to point to my views on these "so-called" exploits, which are really just a pile of shit.
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 20:21
lol...
This is a tired topic.
Remove Parashocks (I support) and most of the whining will drop off.
After this one single change, all that really is required is tweaks.
IMHO, As a PPU, I will say that, drugs are not enough for Parashock Spells...
Devils Grace
06-11-03, 20:26
Originally posted by g0rt
I can duel a Grim Chaser without getting hit with a tank, pe, spy or monk. The simple way is to keep its right hand out of view to you. Its not an exploit to strategically move out of the way of its fire.
Im sick of hearing about an exploit every two seconds on this board. Im changing my sig RIGHT NOW to point to my views on these "so-called" exploits, which are really just a pile of shit.
k
got sometin to say about tyhe topic ???????????????????????
i wont even bother to explain the rest to u maybe a gm can clear my mind or urs then
k thx
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 20:40
Originally posted by ezza
not to mention the fact that you cant do damage to them, im sure there are people who will argue that they can take any PPU down:rolleyes:
Honestly, I took down some of the best ppus in the game. But it always involved antibuff. I rarely ever shot the ppu with his shelters on, i mean it was so damn futile. Then when I played a spy. OMFG. I could feel how useless I was in group battle. Just shooting the ppu with my piddly pain easer, doing like 12 damage. IT was pathetic.
Maybe I'm overestimating a ppu's power, but a PPU shouldn't ever die IMO if the opposing team doesn't have an apu. Maybe once in a while and if the team is large. And that's just wrong. A ppu shouldn't be that invincible IMO.
It's just crazy.
Originally posted by ericdraven
I miss your "nerf PPUs!!" threads.... :( :p
lol, I didn't stop making them because I was leaving. I stopped because everything that needed to be said has been said. All that's left is to wait.
:p
Originally posted by Devils Grace
having problems with a ppu ???
Holy Antibuff is ur answer....
look for one in a store near u...........
u dont like fighting agaisnt a apu + ppu or whatever combo.... just get ur personal ppu and stick real deep up ur arse..... i do
fighting anyone with a ppu when u have ur self a ppu its really challenge kuz it requires team Skill wich is very harder then solo skill
It's amazing how people can miss what the problem is, no matter how obvious.
O_o
Originally posted by Devils Grace
if they can hit u that fast or that easy u must really suck...
That makes no sense, hitting within 3 seconds is "really fast"?
Anyone with decent aim can hit multiple times quickly, ESPECIALLY monks of all people, since they have no reticle.
Btw Jester i'm gonna hafta agree with Devil's grace about apu vs pistol spy. Unless the apu sux, he ain't losing. HL simply does way more damage, without the aiming time, AND is locational.
I've only lost to a spy 1v1 once in the last few months, and even then it was due to my own screw up.
im a ppu and i still say nerf para but in a pvp fight i dont help either side i only rezz and heal if i see another ppu start helpin the other guy then i will do sumthin. after i heal ad buff the guy i will para spam the other monk. opr just end the figh w/ a para barrel till the other monk is dead so the fight is far. then they classes will be even no matter what ppu is just there to heal and buff thats is it they should just make a new class for them. but tanks can take down anyclass w/ enough skill and the right weapon. ive seen a pistol pe and a tank go at it for like 10 min before the fight was over an most of the time it was a fair fight snipers r well set and apus need to stop explioting tactics ae fine. and ppus just need to stand and watch till a rezz or an op fight is goin on so they can just back off
BAAAAAH! Whankers...
I can agree with a 1on1 (a class+ppu vs a class without one) is unfair.. but WTF did you expect? The ppu is actually made to boost?? players playing with a ppu to the better. And dont give that crap of whatever person how shitty that person is at pvp will win vs a great pvp player cause that's not entierly true and Im pretty sure you know it too. But dont have any better argument.
A fight 1on1 (a class+ppu vs a class+ppu) might not be that unfair. But I must agree that it's more fun fighting 1on1 fights without ppu's.. And as a ppu i feel that 1on1's should mostly be made 1on1.
Some here said something about medic in other games isnt strong at all.. That might be, but I have a hard time figuring out how something like that would actually work in this game.
Parashocking has always taken the "skill" out of any fight, so I'd be happy too see them go over to pvm only.
OP wars and bigger battles is where the ppu should be and pvm. As someone else said and I've said it countless times before big battles last's longer with ppus on both sides. Longer fights mostly end up in more satisfaction for you ubar ppl with the leet skills. And you get to shoot alot and and get your satisfaction.
To stryfe and others that think alike.. You dont want a ppu arround other than ress.. Lets hope I meet you out somewhere dying.. thats gonna make my day.. and HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL no I wont bother to ress you.. lie there and rot for all I care.. Im starting to take notice of names I know of in game And im soo looking forward to the phrase heal plz, buff plz, shelter plz in cave or some other place. Gonna enjoy watching you die. If you dont want to die go lvl or gather parts or whatever else where where you dont need to get a heal. I dont play ppu to get shit from ppl like you and then expect to get favours like a ress or whatever from me.
Some of you might just do that (Taking on mobs that can be done without ppu help) and jay to you have fun. It doesnt bother me I'm not gonna force anyone to play with a ppu if they dont want it.
There have been this fucking discussion for too long now.. we have seen a billion suggestions on how to make things better, all ranging from remove ppu's to some that could actually work..
I can live with alot of the better idea's about ppu's getting implemented. But you really need to stop now. one stupid tank or one stupid mediocre Pe should not be able to kill a lone ppu.. If theese classes dont get one of wich I thought was a pretty decent idea about shelters and defs of ppu.. Some kinda discharge (emp thingy) to disable current shelter and def.. and heal.
But I fear that even if this idea gets implemented ppl will still whine cause there are some ppu's that are very talented and are extreemly good a timing shelters and shit. So more often the ppu will proably get the shelters and defs running again before one have killed it. And ppl will come whining here again about bohooo my mad skills cant kill the evil ppu NERF!
Originally posted by Anna
without a ppu a fight lasts 30 seconds
with a ppu a fight can last to an hour
which is most fun to play? hmm lemme think ... :rolleyes:
without ppus there wouldnt even be any fun in pvp, you get 30 seconds of action and 10 minutes of yelling "NEED POKER"
worship your ppu, he is whats keeping pvp alive
I agree to an extent.
Personally, when I go to pp or something, I *don't like* to para. If I get attacked while I'm just standing around, that person gets a para db and will continue to get it till they leave. If theres 2 people fighting, I don't intervene. I'll rezz the loser (granted they aren't red to me) and heal them. Otherwise they're on their own for buffs.
Op fights is a different story. I para the other sides ppu and db them. Simple as that. Mainly because I'm too busy healing and buffing everyone else.
When either side has no ppu, it's just a 2 minute battle, resulting in standing around yelling 'NEED POKES'. They have to be played by a, shall we say, level headed person. Not the kind of person that plays ppu just to be uber and para everyone to be a generally pain in the ass.
Thats my 2 cents.
ino...did you start playing this game before july of this year?...or is that just when you registered on the forum...cuz if you didnt...then you dunno what this game was like when it wasnt so goddamned dependant on PPU's...
anyways tho...
the fact that this game has become so dependant on the APU's/PPU's is what blows...you shouldnt have to depend on anyone else but yourself when it comes to pvp...
i still say get rid of the ppu's and apu's....make hybrids the only class a monk can be...and then take that and balance it with the other classes...balance doesnt seem to be KK's strong point...so it'll never happen...but it really should be taken into consideration...
Ghostly no I started playing this game back in beta 4 and then again in november 2002 so I do know what it was like before..
I've said it in another thread why some ppl thought op figths without ppus was more fun AND could last longer..
It's simply cause specilization wasnt an issue back then.. ppl didnt have the kind of con setups like they do now.. ppl didnt do the same amount of dmg they do now. You get the point? The game is in many ways aloot different than it was a long time ago.
but back then ppl whined.. ppl will forever whine it seems and it pisses me off.. Especially the kind of ppl who got that ugly double morale's.. fuck the ppus on the forums but they still loovem when they have something to gain.. fuck them..
And I do hate the hybrid option.. well it should be more viable than it is now.. But it will only make monks into what pe's are now a solo only class.. I will not need someone else to help me..
It's fun to play that way at times. but thats whats going to happen to all monks in the future if they go hybrid. I dont like it.
Better to implement some of the more reasonale "nerfs's" to ppus than making hybrids again. and it will take atleast a year untill those fuckers are balanced again and untill that would be done ppl whould whine their fucking heads off and monk will be removed instead.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 00:35
Making PvP last longer should be worked on by KK, it should NOT be left up to one sub-class of a class.
They can reduce all pvp damage by a certain amount and boost everyeon's health by a certain amount. that can help.
ok wtf is evryone all nice to me in game and shit i was just standin in a corner and some fucker casted a pesolince and i was the only only left alive ok wtf is this when they come on the forum and says nerf the ppus i woldnt of ressed any of there gay asses if i wasnt a ppu io was one of the first and will probly be on of the last so fuck all of u who say nerf ppus i agree onone thing paras can be tamed a lil so ppl back the shit off
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 03:25
Originally posted by mr bobo
ok wtf is evryone all nice to me in game and shit i was just standin in a corner and some fucker casted a pesolince and i was the only only left alive ok wtf is this when they come on the forum and says nerf the ppus i woldnt of ressed any of there gay asses if i wasnt a ppu io was one of the first and will probly be on of the last so fuck all of u who say nerf ppus i agree onone thing paras can be tamed a lil so ppl back the shit off
what????????????
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 03:30
I think he was saying something about holy pesti killing everyone except him and he was a ppu so he had to rezz them, so he rezzed them and someone came to the forum and bitched about ppus, and that he thinks parashock is overpowered even though he's a ppu.
......I think......
Originally posted by Anna
without a ppu a fight lasts 30 seconds
with a ppu a fight can last to an hour
which is most fun to play? hmm lemme think ... :rolleyes:
without ppus there wouldnt even be any fun in pvp, you get 30 seconds of action and 10 minutes of yelling "NEED POKER"
worship your ppu, he is whats keeping pvp alive
n00b n00b DIE DIE IN RL
-=Blasehase=-
07-11-03, 05:51
Originally posted by Anna
without a ppu a fight lasts 30 seconds
with a ppu a fight can last to an hour
which is most fun to play? hmm lemme think ... :rolleyes:
without ppus there wouldnt even be any fun in pvp, you get 30 seconds of action and 10 minutes of yelling "NEED POKER"
worship your ppu, he is whats keeping pvp alive
isnt it better to loose/win a 30 second fight [roflmao... u sure that u had some PvP without PPU?] and depend it on ur skill than to loose/win a 10 minutes fight and depend it on the skill of ur ppu?
my opinion:
*lower the low TL ressurect to TL 35 with a VERY LOW frequency [like 2/min] with 90 MANA...
so PEs can ressurect too, and a monk isnt really needed in op fights
* make all monks baq to hybrids and remove the high tl shelter/def/heal [the low TL shelter is as good as the high tl in foreigncast]
* make PSU baq to increase dmg
* lower the reachable dmg % on apu & to 330% and remove the random dmg [the % need to be balanced] & the foreigncastnerf should be removed
*make the HP equal to the other freezer weapons
*bring baq EPU
*lower the requirements on the spells
a list with requirements which i find ok can be found here (http://home.pages.at/smoker/spells.htm)
with that they can be the big supporter and make some dmg... or they can be the big dmg dealer and support alot
this is just an idea and needs some changes to make it to a good idea ;)
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 06:00
ARGH EPU
I admit I like the other ideas but not EPU :|
Apart from maybe that APU Damage being a little too low unless you're forcing *Everyone* to go hybrid and have no APUs...
For hybrids to work boosters would also have to be changed a bit...
It's a vicious circle to my mind. A clan defends an Op and brings as many ppu's as they can muster. The number of ppu's is what's shaggoring everything up. The class needs to be made less desirable (essential) to have and not necessarily equal the enemy number of ppu's. Also less desirable to the player... ie more difficult to make have an enormous effect. I am one of the shittiest ppu's I know, but by being present I have a ridiculous effect. :(
SigmaDraconis
07-11-03, 19:12
No. only because a PPU is support class charactor..its yur own damn fault for thinking you could duel him :P
I got into a fight with a PPU today. I took me a little to kill him but he went down. The paraspam isnt that big a deal to me, it slows me down, but i keep antshick fluid in my belt so if i need to make a quick getaway i can.
He DB'd me, paraspammed, then would run off to re-buff, i just kept using my medkits and psi boosters, kept casting my fire beam and eventually he died.
He did however almost kill me, got me to like 75 health, but i just used a medkit, poped some antishock fluid, ran around a bit, then started cooking him again.
I voted yes.
This is because I agree with the Topic Starter in the way that PPUs do spoil 1v1 and 2v2 combat when it's PvP.
I do however believe that PPUs improve Combat on a larger scale as long as the PPUs are fairly even across both parties fighting.
At the end of the day. If you want 1v1 or 2v2 go to Neofrag. Pepper is a waste of time and its boring. People have done it for years and it's spoiled by Zoning and Copbots. In fact even the wastes is better to go fight right in the middle of an underpopulated map.
Who wants a 5 minute OP fight?
Certainly not me. You want to play round based PvP... go play CS.
PPUs certainly elongate your fun in OP fights as long as both sides are balanced. This is why I believe that all OP battles should be arranged events by the leaders of both sides agreeing on the number of PPUs the time and place etc and possible naming the runners involved so that 4 clans don't turn up half way thru.
Sorta like competitive matches.
@Stryfex:
You can't really use this example to illustrate your point as much as I agree with you. Simply because whoever you're fighting could bring 6 mates to jump you at any time and you would have no comebacks. If a PPU jumps into your fight then take it on the chin whether u like it or not. The game is not meant to be all friendly scraps and 1v1s, 2v2s etc. It's harsh and unfair 99.9% of the time. A PPU has as much right to be in PP1 as you and he can do what the hell he wants as long as it's within the laws of the game, physical or administrative. PP1 was never designed for the uses people have given it over the year and a bit it's been running. I did understand what you meant tho.
Oh and 1v1 vs a PPU is just dumb. PPUs are not meant to be killed easily.
I admire you for not relying on PPUs when you fight, it is admirable and it will improve your skills over time.
Your Friendly Neighbourhood PPU
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 19:49
Originally posted by Seezur001
I got into a fight with a PPU today. I took me a little to kill him but he went down. The paraspam isnt that big a deal to me, it slows me down, but i keep antshick fluid in my belt so if i need to make a quick getaway i can.
He DB'd me, paraspammed, then would run off to re-buff, i just kept using my medkits and psi boosters, kept casting my fire beam and eventually he died.
He did however almost kill me, got me to like 75 health, but i just used a medkit, poped some antishock fluid, ran around a bit, then started cooking him again.
heh no offense, but you cant' make a quick getaway if you're being paraSPAMMED.
Secondly, if a ppu dies to firebeam then he sucks horribly and really shouln't be a ppu or he's low level.
Firebeam is a weakass spell.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
I do however believe that PPUs improve Combat on a larger scale as long as the PPUs are fairly even across both parties fighting.
Which happens about as often as never.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
I voted yes.
This is because I agree with the Topic Starter in the way that PPUs do spoil 1v1 and 2v2 combat when it's PvP.
I do however believe that PPUs improve Combat on a larger scale as long as the PPUs are fairly even across both parties fighting.
At the end of the day. If you want 1v1 or 2v2 go to Neofrag. Pepper is a waste of time and its boring. People have done it for years and it's spoiled by Zoning and Copbots. In fact even the wastes is better to go fight right in the middle of an underpopulated map.
Who wants a 5 minute OP fight?
Certainly not me. You want to play round based PvP... go play CS.
PPUs certainly elongate your fun in OP fights as long as both sides are balanced. This is why I believe that all OP battles should be arranged events by the leaders of both sides agreeing on the number of PPUs the time and place etc and possible naming the runners involved so that 4 clans don't turn up half way thru.
Sorta like competitive matches.
@Stryfex:
You can't really use this example to illustrate your point as much as I agree with you. Simply because whoever you're fighting could bring 6 mates to jump you at any time and you would have no comebacks. If a PPU jumps into your fight then take it on the chin whether u like it or not. The game is not meant to be all friendly scraps and 1v1s, 2v2s etc. It's harsh and unfair 99.9% of the time. A PPU has as much right to be in PP1 as you and he can do what the hell he wants as long as it's within the laws of the game, physical or administrative. PP1 was never designed for the uses people have given it over the year and a bit it's been running. I did understand what you meant tho.
Oh and 1v1 vs a PPU is just dumb. PPUs are not meant to be killed easily.
I admire you for not relying on PPUs when you fight, it is admirable and it will improve your skills over time.
Your Friendly Neighbourhood PPU See...I can actually survive 4-5 attackers on my lonesome (as long as there's not a friggin APU) because I am fast, have good defense, and know how to fight. Add a PPU to the mix, and paraspam takes away my ability to be fast, DB takes away a lot of my defense, and para's nasty little side effect of making your mouse sluggish as hell and the fact that the others will likely have some pretty damn good shields takes away my ability to fight.
Being a lowtech rifle PE, I simply don't have enough damage output to take down a PPU unless they seriously screw up. I'm not necessarily complaining about that as much as the fact that a single PPU effectively negates my entire fighting ability.
--Stryfe
we were fighting at a zone line, so i could have poped the antishock when he was healing, then ran = quick getaway.
he was **/49 one star PPU, im 2 star 59/53 so not much difference in lvl and he probably had a shit resists setup. Seems to me he had alot of posion resists cause my poison beam wasent doing anything to him.
Maybee the fire beam is shit, but this is the second PPU ive taken down solo with it so it works for me.
[EDIT] he wasent using holy paralisys btw.
KRIMINAL99
07-11-03, 21:43
Yes, I hate the fact that ppus are like a brick wall that can't be defeated with tatical skills, strategy, or twitch skills. Make it so their sheilds are at least only as powerful as they are on others right now, nerf their heals a little.
At the very least they shouldnt be able to outheal anytype of damage from the same level player.
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