View Full Version : OP fights... Jupiter and Pluto
something that the germans noticed, too. (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80907)
there is a difference between jupiter op fights and pluto op fights. when i was doing an op fight on pluto, i was flabbergasted. i got pwned multiple times but thats not the point. i saw a tank donning a CS and shooting multiple spys and other (noob) tanks, then pulling out his speed gat shooting at a monk while pulling out his moon striker from time to time to shoot in the OP at them turrets. meanwhile, the hands of the monks were glowing in another color every minute, green, red, white... plus it started to really suck when we won (despite me dieing in the proces... hey, im a spy). everyone of the enemy team was laying dead on the ground. then, about 5 minutes later, a second team of them came over the hills, and knew exactly where we stood. so we didnt last one minute. they only stopped when the last of our stealthed spys was found.
so lets put it to small phrases:
- everyone brought all of his stuff
- everyone was staying down dead, giving info over teamspeak (im guessing) and waiting for the allmighty ppu
was it fun? nope. here is why.
there was nothing to make it fun. there was neither winning nor losing. there was nothing in the wager, nobody could loose anything (except for the op.... puh-leeze). there was no suspense. and there was no way to make the dead use the genrep.
in conclusion: bring back the goddamn beltdrop. with it you can win something and you can loose something. if you cant afford to loose anything, you should not op-fight. thats called "risk" and "suspense", my friend, and those are 2 factors that make a game fun. just fighting over and over again with nothing to win and nothing to lose simply isnt fun. plus the last bit of fun really dies when you kill the last opponent and a second army thats perfectly informed of all your moves comes back 5 minutes later. i can just imagine it on teamspeak "yo, we are all dead... could you lend us a hand?" "sure thing! and if we cant make it we can still hack their op when they are asleep!".
there is no competition no excitement and no fun if nobody wins and nobody looses.
Shadow Dancer
05-11-03, 01:31
I totally agree.
I was previously not for belt drop in war zones, but now I'm sort of changing my mind. Though I'm also for no safe zones...evar! :)
ohnoz ive only been asking for jupi belt drops for like ever
but theres nothing wrong with bringing all your stuff use it to check the weakness`s off your enemys if one gun doesnt work use another one
I always wanted belt drops everywhere and no safe slot.
Originally posted by Tazo
something that the germans noticed, too. (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80907)
in conclusion: bring back the goddamn beltdrop. with it you can win something and you can loose something. if you cant afford to loose anything, you should not op-fight. thats called "risk" and "suspense", my friend, and those are 2 factors that make a game fun. just fighting over and over again with nothing to win and nothing to lose simply isnt fun. plus the last bit of fun really dies when you kill the last opponent and a second army thats perfectly informed of all your moves comes back 5 minutes later. i can just imagine it on teamspeak "yo, we are all dead... could you lend us a hand?" "sure thing! and if we cant make it we can still hack their op when they are asleep!".
there is no competition no excitement and no fun if nobody wins and nobody looses.
NO
Not everyone is in a Clan and partisipates in OP wars......
You guys already fucked us on the Locked GR's, quit trying to fuck us even more....
[Edited for Flaming - Gungnir]
[Removed for Trolling - Gungnir]
Go play on Jupiter if you beltdrops in Warzones.......
thats the reason i left jupi. i died so much i would have nothing left in a week. :(
I'm quite happy with the current Pluto belt drop settings.
If you want Jupiter settings ... play on Jupiter.
Seems a fairly simple conclusion.
Originally posted by Spoon
Go play on Jupiter if you beltdrops in Warzones.......
I would but:
jupiter is a german server
my char and my friends are on pluto
Also I was under the impression for some reason that it would be
pluto that got hardcore rules, I was kinda pissed when jupiter
got it but not pluto.
Originally posted by Rade
Also I was under the impression for some reason that it would be
pluto that got hardcore rules, I was kinda pissed when jupiter
got it but not pluto.
pluto aint never been hardcore :)
only reason i even had a char on there in the first place is i used it as a place to relax from hardcore gaming and still to some extent do although im more involved with pluto now
kinda having no drops is fun means i can go on mad pking sprees without any worry of loosing stuff :)
screw belts...item drops everywhere.
No safe zones....anywhere (including p1)
Having -sl doesn't make copbots shoot you. Copbots don't spawn back instantly though...
Screw rares....dump em.
Make prostitution actually happen ^_^
Then we'll see who really rocks the place.
Yes
Reverse the carebear rules they only help RUIN the game, not help better it.
One safe slot should be enought. You should drop EVERYTHING ELSE when you die. Believe it or not, it works out....yes you may lose all ur armor and secondary weaponry when you die...but when you kill someone else then you can get it all back! OH MY THE SYSTEM WORKS!
Think about it. Cut the carebear crap.
Shadow Dancer
05-11-03, 02:03
Rade has a point. The belt drop AND safeslot thing is good enough. How much more "protection" do you want?
*shrug*
It would be the kiss of death for spies. You'd never see one outside a safe zone ever again.
I fight for the sake of fighting, not to collect whatever crap someone lugs around i their inventory.
There has to be a balance between being a carbear game and a rampant pk game personally its gone too far towards carebear for my liking if someone dies there should be a time limit and then they are gred automatically to their apartment stopping that lame ass death spying which is pretty much used by any clan with teamspeak also a nice black screen would be nice cos when your dead you dont see nothing rather then the out of body experience that we currently have.
Safe slots should be removed but quickbelts should stay which gives clan/team mates a chance to revive and or retrueve the item from the belt before its hacked but still gives a definite prize to anybody who wins an op war or pvp fight, and if this doesnt suit somebody guess what you dont drop a belt with an LE in so you can then have 10 safe slots so you have no risk.
Originally posted by g0rt
Yes
Reverse the carebear rules they only help RUIN the game, not help better it.
One safe slot should be enought. You should drop EVERYTHING ELSE when you die. Believe it or not, it works out....yes you may lose all ur armor and secondary weaponry when you die...but when you kill someone else then you can get it all back! OH MY THE SYSTEM WORKS!
Think about it. Cut the carebear crap.
I have played games with similar systems and believe it or not it
actually does work. It also brings alot of circulation into the
system and a reason for clans to keep hunting mobs etc even tho
people have a load of leet equipment, because you need spares
of everything. Looting and faster deterioration of items is the key
to keeping people bussy, its fake content, just like leveling
treadmills.
Originally posted by Rade
Looting and faster deterioration of items is the key
to keeping people bussy, its fake content, just like leveling
treadmills. w00t. That sounds like *so* much fun :rolleyes:
It is actually, play games that have it and youll see. The market
becomes much more alive, tradeskilling more active, same with
mob hunting when you are capped and fully equipped. Clans tend
to bond more since they do hunts together etc, and the combine
leveling the noob clan members with the equipment runs. Having
things not go your way and being hard is what makes these
games fun, now, it doesnt seem that way when you add them in
afterwards of course, then the game just seems to become more
boring for the vets. But sayin that this is boring is like saying that
all leveling systems are boring and dieing to mobs is boring and
paying for stuff is boring so why dont we all just live forever and
get everything we want etc etc. The problem is just that now we
have been spoiled already so of course we cant go into a
hardcore system now. If the game would have been alot harder
from the beginning everyone would just have played under those
circumstances instead, and there are alot of other benefits with
those systems and not many with a forgiving system.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Rade has a point. The belt drop AND safeslot thing is good enough. How much more "protection" do you want?
It's not so much of a matter of protection, for me, it's having to go get poked, GR to a public GR, run across x# of zones to retrieve my belt, if it's still there.......
The locked GR's make this idea just stupid, in my opinion....
To me it just adds insult to injury.......
there is a difference between jupiter op fights and pluto op fights. when i was doing an op fight on pluto, i was flabbergasted. i got pwned multiple times but thats not the point. i saw a tank donning a CS and shooting multiple spys and other (noob) tanks, then pulling out his speed gat shooting at a monk while pulling out his moon striker from time to time to shoot in the OP at them turrets. meanwhile, the hands of the monks were glowing in another color every minute, green, red, white... plus it started to really suck when we won (despite me dieing in the proces... hey, im a spy). everyone of the enemy team was laying dead on the ground. then, about 5 minutes later, a second team of them came over the hills, and knew exactly where we stood. so we didnt last one minute. they only stopped when the last of our stealthed spys was found.
And that's what makes fighting on Pluto great.
Imagine... every fight you came to you fought a tank with a CS, a monk with HL, a spy with a SH, a PE with a blacksun. Now THAT I think is dull.
Even when they came back the second time with "half of them laying dead on the ground," what had changed? Heck obviously your side beat them the first time but with half of them removed you couldn't beat them the second time? Not meaning to insult, but it could be the first time you beat them was luck, I mean you don't HAVE to stand over people whom you think are spying on you... why not drop a stun or gat turret on them and laugh when they choose to respawn?
The thing I hate about battles on Pluto is it's not usually even remotely possible to win at some times because you face a team of equally skilled players - 3 times the size of your own. THAT is what sucks fighting on Pluto, no matter which side does it.
As for excitement... heck every fight I get into I get excited, because I want to WIN, not loot the body of some dildo who tried to backstab me, I believe people asking for the belt drops in warzones idea have not fully thought out the consequences:
a) every major fight anyone undertakes will be fought ONLY if one side believes they will win, leading to hugely unfair fights that are what sucks now
b) People bitch and whine and quit the game when they lose rares they don't use due to bugs in the game, guess what will happen when a clan loses 3 big fights in a row and half of them lose their rares? For me, I think it would be time for FFXI, because I've worked hard to get where I am now and don't feel like losing my main weapons to being jumped by a group of monks at an op fight.
People who complain that op fights now are boring generally do so for 1 of two reasons:
a) They lost [for whatever reason]
b) They had no chance of losing/winning [or the chance was so small as to be laughable]
Notice I said losing OR winning, adding item drops won't make it more interesting, it will just make things even more intense then they are now.
Look at it this way: A clan wins a fight and adds another small collection of rares to it's own already huge collection, where is the excitement in that? Oh you find that exciting? Wow amazed you can tear yourself away from warbot farming enough to show up at an op fight.
OR
Congrats on having that first 5 slot weapon made, only took you what? Two months? Jeez, sucks you lost it 30 minutes after getting it due to crashing while at that fight.
So... item drops in warzones? No thanks.
I think the solution is simple:
Format the servers start again with when you die you drop everything but safeslot or no safeslot ans you drop 1 random item and then go along varying degrees to ultra carbear where you are invincable grs cant be locked no pvp no gr is locked is broken or lost and all carebears will be happily tucked away from everybody else and everyone is happy.
Originally posted by kurai
*shrug*
It would be the kiss of death for spies. You'd never see one outside a safe zone ever again.
I fight for the sake of fighting, not to collect whatever crap someone lugs around i their inventory.
I agree wholeheartedly. Spies and PPUs in particular have to carry so much valuable shit around that dying could easily cost you in the millions (which, shockingly enough, not everybody has). Vets with a zillion of everything may enjoy the new system, but dropping nearly everything of worth that I own and spending a week recouping from a single fight isn't what's going to keep me in this game.
All but PEs do.
PPUs, most slots if not all with spells and normally more in inventory, worst effected
Spies,generally only 2 rares 3 maybe if you have an obliterator
APUs,normally 3 or 4 rares ie HL FA and atleast 1 barrel and also a toxic beam normally but can be replaced easy enough.
Tanks,CS and AoE weapon and a speedy but they cant drop.
PEs, normally just the one weapon bar a few who run around with both RoGs and PEs
LOL, I have an idea, how about you reroll Mr. Snow and start a charater on Jupiter if you like this so much... it's basicly the same idea as what you proposed. Except that everyone doesn't have to reroll with you. :rolleyes:
I just find it funny that someone who proudly proclaims they have canceled their account is so vehment in their pursuit of making large changes few other people want before they go... This is kinda a personal dig, but just like people coming back here and making threads with their opening line "Now I haven't played in 5 months, but I have the perfect solution to balance the current issues in Neocon.." Firstly, they don't play the game, but believe they know the current situation and how to "fix" everything and secondly if they quit or are quitting because the game is sucky or they hate Neocron, WTF ARE THEY DOING [BACK] HERE?!
I'd love to see more people play, but if everyone whom has cancelled their account or no longer plays want to screw with something just for the heck of it to ruin what the few people remaining find fun, it's hard to see past that big HYPOCRITE label that covers their posts... and then not to choke in anger or laugh at the crazy at the ideas they propose because they are so out of touch with the true problems.
Doesnt bother me that much I dont play any of my high level chars anymore and i have cancelled my account too.
To be honest I would play jupiter but for 2 things:
1.My german is realy bad so much so I cant write a sentence in german anymore but I generally can understand if its spoken to me or written on screen.
2. One of the major Uranus german clans migrated to jupiter for good at the time and 3 months, if even, they were back on uranus talking about how much the pvp sucked there and how in general it was shit.
but if I could get a group of english speakers to go there I would since I played on venus and dont have a word of french.
i wouldnt mind belt drops...but definately dont want SL in war zones....
actually having belt drops would prolly suck for a lot of ppl....it would make places like CRP even more PK freindly ...and ppl lvling off fire mobs would get even more upset cause now they would be losing items...and another point as an APU you need at least 2 rares on you if you wanna chance at taking down a PPU you need and antibuff and a rare to kill with so im not sure how it would work out
[edit] i would say they need to definatly up the rare drop rate off mobs even more if they implemented this
[edit] and i PK for the rush not the items so im happy with no belt drops....but at the same time i wouldnt mind them so much....but i think ppl leveling would
Forgot about anti-buff and the CRP isn the be all and end all of neocron as alot of people seem to think its just hany having the caves next to a gr.Personally I rather between blackhill and tezla but they are normally locked so I run from CRP to them.
Mr_Snow
cancelled account
u arent actually cancelled then?
[edit] after think about this i dont think it would help NC's already dwindling population....it would just make it even harder to lvl...now I can kill anyone i want...not lose SL and get their item :/
as it is getting PK'd in a warzone isnt anything to stress over....which is how i think it should be...maybe they should implement a second res that an enemy PPU could cast and if they res u with that spell then kill you you would lose an item...to help curb ppl lying there waiting for back up
Originally posted by hinch
pluto aint never been hardcore :)
only reason i even had a char on there in the first place is i used it as a place to relax from hardcore gaming and still to some extent do although im more involved with pluto now
kinda having no drops is fun means i can go on mad pking sprees without any worry of loosing stuff :)
well i dont know about that all i see people doing on jupiter is *leaning aginst the wall, smokeing a sigurette while gazeing up at the sky*
it may be a roll play server but sure isnt hardcore, if any server is hardcore its saturn but thats becuase they are almost all hardcore pkers/gankers/random gankers-pkers.
alot of what everyone is saying, like:
*what sucks on pluto is one side of evenly skilled players usually fights a group 3 times its size*
is totally comman throught each server in my experiance, i havnt been to many jupiter OP fights mainly just three or four and big one which i veiwed with my le in as a noob tank before i deleted him through frustration of the language barrier.
My account is cancelled but I paid for 3 months about a month ago so Im bumming around a bit for the last 2 months of it.
And the population would probably take a hit if all servers were wiped but in reality if they set up neptune it would probably help keep the interest of fully capped fully equiped bored veterans of the game who have nothing better to do then pk anything that moves and atleast that way you wont get the general flames of noob pker adn whatever that you get all the time these days.
Belt drop would kill the rest of the fun that is still left in OP wars.
The thing is that people dont want to loose their stuff, that follows that people do ALL to not loose their stuff!!!
The result would be:
Everybody would bring as much people as possible to war, in the end we have faction wars only, thats approximately the situation on Jupiter.
Clans with not that many numbers online would not even show up if their OP gets hacked(or go over to point 1).
More lame tactics than ever, just to not loose...atm you loose nothing and its already bad enough.
Originally posted by mehirc
Belt drop would kill the rest of the fun that is still left in OP wars.
The thing is that people dont want to loose their stuff, that follows that people do ALL to not loose their stuff!!!
The result would be:
Everybody would bring as much people as possible to war, in the end we have faction wars only, thats approximately the situation on Jupiter.
Clans with not that many numbers online would not even show up if their OP gets hacked(or go over to point 1).
More lame tactics than ever, just to not loose...atm you loose nothing and its already bad enough.
If this is the case why was the OP wars back before these looting
rules so great?
Originally posted by Rade
If this is the case why was the OP wars back before these looting
rules so great?
Because people werent used to the cushiness that they have now.Admittedly I wasnt around when belts didnt exist but wish I was because op wars are pointless atm I basically only go to them to kill stuff but dont gain anything from them only lose if i die and imps pop out and get wrecked, I would be willing to risk all my shit if there was a chance of actually getting stuff from op wars and not only losing stuff and it would be a real boost to the economy in the game which seems to be stagnant at best on all servers and non-existant at worst.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Because people werent used to the cushiness that they have now.Admittedly I wasnt around when belts didnt exist but wish I was because op wars are pointless atm I basically only go to them to kill stuff but dont gain anything from them only lose if i die and imps pop out and get wrecked, I would be willing to risk all my shit if there was a chance of actually getting stuff from op wars and not only losing stuff and it would be a real boost to the economy in the game which seems to be stagnant at best on all servers and non-existant at worst.
yeah, i totally agree. I remember beta when it was like 40 hack skill to hack a op, and there was no belts. Back in beta 3 though there was no "single drop" and when you died people looted your entire body...heh. :P
They were great? I think its better today. The only thing atm is that there is too much exploiting (yes i call it exploiting even if KK obviously allows it) in OP wars, and people already do alot to win only.
I agree that OP wars could be more exciting with beltdrop and that the death in NC is a bit too harmles. But when i see what people already do to win these pointless OP-battles i really dont want to know what they do when there is actually a point.
I think it would make more sense to make the Outposts itselfs more useful :)
That was the point of adding the ability of locking grs and giving part of the gr proceeds to the owning clan and everyone has seen how well that worked, so do you really want KK to make another stab at trying to make outposts more "useful"?
the rare drop rate was insanely higher = more rares and easier to get rares so ppl wouldnt treat them like their long lost son.
QuantumDelta
05-11-03, 04:47
Though I can see both sides of the story, and, having BEEN in both sides of the story I know what I prefer.
From the day I picked up Matt_UKs CS at Shirkan I was convinced item/belt drops in WZs was bad.
When it was changed, I was happy, more clans, including some of the most timid players in my own clan, were pvping, more clans vying for ops, more players willing to fight.
There is basically no [/storyline\] content, I'm sorry to say it but it's true, it is there, but most of that is non-interactive (if it was, I wouldn't be to worried about ops or what have you i'd care about other stuff...), so PvP, in terms, Op wars, and Dueling, are the highlight of the game.
Heh, I am going to agree with Kurai, and Ehyuko, and I am going to say that I am an advocate of the English Server drop rules...
However, to address the problem with people lying dead;
one or two options.
Auto GR after 2 minutes.
Fade to black after death (this is NOT A HARD THING TO CODE DAMNIT).
When counting on fingers Im well onto my second had in just pes Ive given away to people.
Anyway thats one of the advantages to the system think rade said it already cant remember that people will have to actively hunt for rares to have spares and this will help level new people aswell as they will be constantly in a hunting team.
it will also encourage the economy to grow as people will be buying replacement items and trading rares so tradeskillers will do extra business and we will see a form of economy in neocron again.
Anyway thats one of the advantages to the system think rade said it already cant remember that people will have to actively hunt for rares to have spares and this will help level new people aswell as they will be constantly in a hunting team.
dont agree here....I think ppl leveling would be hurt the most by this change
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
That was the point of adding the ability of locking grs and giving part of the gr proceeds to the owning clan and everyone has seen how well that worked, so do you really want KK to make another stab at trying to make outposts more "useful"?
I like the GR rules and i would like more than that.
Originally posted by joran420
the rare drop rate was insanely higher = more rares and easier to get rares so ppl wouldnt treat them like their long lost son.
There were also less rareweapons and no ultima mods that makes weapons more rare, i would say all stuff was replaceable easily.
Heavyporker
05-11-03, 05:26
QD - yes - fade to black in 5 to 10 seconds, and forced GR to apt after 2 mins. YES! YES!
I do belive before the quickbelt thingy got implemented you didnt drop stuff from your inventory.. Wich in most cases ended up in the one that got attacked first really hard just stoped and moved his cs or whatever into inv.. that was real fun huh rade?..
BUT.. op wars in the beginning was more fun than they are now. cause speciliazion wasnt an issue. ppl brought whatever that could do some dmg to a fight, and it was still fun even if you lost your tar or whatever. But with todays specilization and OMG I must have 120/120/120/120 stats on my weaps to be able to be viable in a fight.. well not really that bad but if you dont cap your guns atleast in dmg or real close to cap ppl laugh at you.
I could live with belts getting dropped in warzones aswell if it wasnt for ppu spells beeing so damn expensive.. If you do an op fight.. Let's say you loose the first round even ppu's die. thats 100% one spell between 40 - 50k if it's just a resist or combat booster. if its a shelter lets say just a 3 slotter, that can cost the ppu over 100k to get back.. So no biggy Now we return to the fight again. I got a spare half decent shelter in gogo this time we win YAY.. 15 minutes passes and the enemy returns, lets say we loose again, again almost a 100% chanse that you will drop someting ranging from 40k - almost unlimited amounts of money depending on the spell.
That way a ppu will participate in like max 2 rounds of fighting if you die. Now we all know ppl hate ppu's and that would slowly remove the ppu from the scene and some of you will be all smooschie and happy. But an op fight without ppu's will end pretty quick, so alot of the pre war things you have to do.. find ppl, gr to somewhere that isnt locked, get all the stuff together to go attack and the fight ends in tops 2 minutes.. Some spies or pe's might last some longer cause of stealthing but what good do they do?.. That wont be all jay jay wowow either will it?
Then you say well some op fights before could last longer than 2 minutes and that was before the monks as we know it today. Yes they did because ppl didnt do the same kind of dmg they do today.. ppl didnt know wtf con was hardly :) But I still remember ppl getting buffs and occasional shelters and stuff from monks allready back then.
I'd Like to see the face of anyone "hardcore" here participate in lots of fights or just getting ganked ending with loosing say all their lib's all their slooted blacksuns, their cs's and so.. I think you will be really happy about that now wont you?
Yes I know shit might happen.. it's not all that if it's one rare some time but loosing alot of shit fast will soon turn that player into one pissed/sad whatever player, soon ending up in a player that cant do shit and quits playing, cause looking for rare parts or building 50 blacksuns every other day wont cause you to get a boner.
So this drop things some wants to happen again is cause some ppl want some kind of reward for winning, I can understand that and all but there should be some other way of getting rewarded then getting someone elses cs. Next time you fight the same group of ppl and they heavent replaced their lost goodies will for sure blaim all the future losses without cs's and whatever on just that. Well our tanks doesnt have a cs or our pe's dont have libs anymore so offcourse we will loose in the end. Thats gonna be a blast!
One way to solve it like lots of ppl have said before remove rare weapons or make store bought and buildable weapons just as good as the rares.. But for this to happen cst'ers needs som loving when it comes to making slots.. a batch of 20 black suns @ a cst'er arround 200 should result in a decent blacksun, not like it can end up to day with 15 unslotted and like tops a 2 slotter. That way loosing a blacksun or a shelter wont cost the person 1 million in wortless weapons.
Originally posted by hinch
only reason i even had a char on there in the first place is i used it as a place to relax from hardcore gaming and still to some extent do although im more involved with pluto now
i thought you were there for me? :(
But wouldn't things dropping stop the never ending onslaught of people who are outnumbered . .but still win. .. and those same people gr out and come back with more people . . they can keep coming back cause there is no penalty for dying besides pokes or whatnot .. so the force keeps on growing.
I see both sides of the story also .. from what i get there are the FPS fragfest guys who just want to respawn and run right back in with whatever they got . .and the RPGers who say ... gawd dang it when you die . .you're going to fall over and somethings going to drop from your hand or fall out of your backpack :D
heh just kidding. . well why can't there be a compromise . .like teh safe slot stays of course ... so your main precsious rare is safe . .and basically everything has a certain percent chance of dropping .. like medkits. . . boosters, recycle material .. has a high chance of what is dropped . ... and things like rares have a "rare" chance of being dropped .. . armor .. reg weapons and such .. have a small chance of being dropped ..
I hear about Op wars being shorter ... or whatnot .. but that would give a WIN to whoever held out for tha ttime woudln't it? . . rather than people coming over and over cause they either have more people or more time to play at the moment .. .and they can keep doing it over and over till they win cause there is no penalty. .. .it would stop people from constantly coming back .. without risk ..
if you want to have long fights where you dont' loose anything . why not visit Neofrag :lol:
No real penalites .. . hmm I thought this was a cyberpunk game . ..
But either way Ops should be given a greater value of some sort . .. now what could that be .. hmm .. .....
Originally posted by mehirc
Clans with not that many numbers online would not even show up if their OP gets hacked(or go over to point 1).
thats actually another thing that sucks, imo. everyone and his granny is op-fighting. why even go highlevel anymore?
MjukisDjur
05-11-03, 10:50
Belt drop is fine but dont remove the safeslot. Some of us have worked really hard to get a decent weapon. Bringing 5 decent weapons to a fight is... hmm maybe not that very good.
___T-X____
05-11-03, 10:56
no Rezzing in warzones, be funny watching people running for the Zone line when there getting owned
Originally posted by Tazo
thats actually another thing that sucks, imo. everyone and his granny is op-fighting. why even go highlevel anymore?
You still don't get it, do you? The point Mehirc was making is, that with belt drop in warzones enabled we would never have small fights. All you would see are mega allies, ninja hacking, faction wars and the like - the same things everyone complains about on Jupiter, but does not tell you when advocating changed belt drop rules.
In your first post, you claim to have lost because of some corpses and team speak. The enemy knew where you were and you fell in a suprise attack - so what? Ever given consideration to the possibility your enemy also might have had stealthed Spies shadow you and report your location?
Further more, you complain there is no way to make the dead use the GR. Why don't you give it a name - you advocate rezz-killing. We neither need nor want this. If you don't like Pluto and its rules play on Jupiter.
just no
only class it really penalises is the PPU
as tanks can go with 1 gun, meh
APU's can go with 1 spell, Meh
Pe's CAN go with 1 gun, meh
SPY's CAN go with 1 gun, meh
the poor fuycking ppu has over 8 spells that he kinda HAS to carry that if drop are worth (normally ) over 1 mill each, so fuck that for an idea
and ppl would keep a spy with obi or stealth3 around to pick up belts.... would just add to the "gheyness" of op fights......
Im kinda content with op fights now... other that apus still rule and tanks need a aoe dmg boost of x2.... and pes... good knows what they are supposed to do in op fights other that hack :\
I enjoy OP fighting cause I can bring all my best gear and go nuts, if I want to risk something I go into pepper park looking for a fight.
The OP war system is grand the way it is, changing it would just allow gene-rep camping, PKing fucktards to kill (rez kill) lower levels for their belts and at OP wars.
The reason KK changed the warzones to stop belt drops was because assholes were abusing the system to loot people, mostly low & mid level runners of their stuff and driving them away from the game.
Rade suggested we should drop everything except our safe slot which would mean maxed runners like him/her could kill a bunch of level 40 runners a day, they cant get her back so they kill level 30 runners and so on down the line meaning noobs get raped all the way up thru the ranks, doesnt sound like fun to me unless your maxed and in a big clan..
[TgR]KILLER
05-11-03, 17:24
well.. said this ages ago already.. a few days ago DARK attacked our OP.. we went in and defend.. heavy outnumberd and hell we all died.. but we had FUN.. we defended the OP almost knowing for sure we would die but it was fun to do.. nobody is gonna fight if they are gonna lose all their stuff..
I do understand the feeling of ppl who wants some kind of reward for killing ppl.. in opfights and whatever.
But as I said before the qb safeslot thingy ppl who got hit hard stopped and moved weapon into inventory and just stood there waiting to be killed.
I really liked the qb 1st slot thingy because now I got the option of fighting back until the end, especially on my spy. The same day this new rule got implemented I saw this bad tank coming at me at an op lvling zone, so I knew he's gonna attack me. This time tho after I got hit the first time I didnt have to stop to save my 4 slotted first love noo. I could give back to the tank ending in I won :). Now that was aloot more fun than see a tank ohhhh ihhh run away. Tank is faster get ganked.
There is a reward in fights now also you mostly get to have a great fight (comparing with previous drop settings that is) aslong as you dont fight ppl lower than you or ppl that aint that interested in pvp and aren't any good. Now ppl can fight back with their best weapon until one of you die. That didnt happen alot befor
The dead spying on what's happening needs to go tho.. if you die the screen should get blank.. maby put in a 2 minute timelimit for the ppu to ress on then if no gr choosen bring back to primary apartment or something.
Even tho I don't really play anymore, I thought I would butt in on this thread and give my two cents. As a ppu, I would hafta say. NO FRIGGIN WAY! If you return belt drops then I won't be leaving a safe zone. I will stay inside the city and only duck out for brief moments. The crap I've got on me is more valuable then all of you put together and I can't afford to hafta constantly replace it. Sure it's fun to take risk and potentialy gain somethin in an op war, but its really not fun to take more risk then anyone else and receive nothing more in return. It's been suggested we could remove the safe slot, but that won't help. The fact remains that a Tank has a good chance of dropping non valuable spells or armor while I will absolutely drop a valuable spell, 50k or more. That's unacceptable! Where is my incentive to fight when I loose more and gain nothing?
Originally posted by Anna
i thought you were there for me? :(
that too babes
but apparently your taken by someone far higher up the food chain than me :)
and he even got you to play nc in the first place i only had you in pa :)
drops == good.
losing millions == good.
It might actually jumpstart the stagnation of the economy.
Take out rares and belts. Make it so you straight up drop a item completely random, no safe slots.
Biggity bam. People won't fight? Raise the stakes of OP wars. Make them generate more money...whatever.
People did it all the time in beta and that was what it was like then.....i don't know why people won't do it now. It's called RISK people....this isn't some n00b freindly game....we aren't playing RO...LOL!
The dead spying on what's happening needs to go tho.. if you die the screen should get blank.. maby put in a 2 minute timelimit for the ppu to ress on then if no gr choosen bring back to primary apartment or something.
How about if you don't choose your own GR in 2 mins time you get dropped somewhere random like Ventura warp does :lol:
no auto GR is stoopid....I can see the benifit of fade to black though
i agree with everyone who said remove the safe slot/and make drops in warzones...i also wish they'd get rid of the belts in general...and just go back to dropping the item on the ground...
you people that say 'ive worked so hard on getting my rare' can just stop crying about it...half of what used to make this game's pvp interesting was losing items and trying 'hard' once again to get another...others now hold their rares until they decay...and by then they've got multiples...
i went hacking belts on saturn and kept getting LE chips...or psi boosters...it's like, the whole belts thing is stupid...people run back to their belts...throw a shitty item in it...and they have their item back...it's not hard to get your item back from a quickbelt either...i always planned on suicide when i went back for my belt...just re-spawned...run back...open belt...hit take all...die and you've got it back...wow...that was fun...i ALMOST lost something important...
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...fuckin pk whiners fucked this game's pvp up hardcore....
it gave anti-rpker's and rpker's both a reason to pvp...now we've got nuthin...people dont pvp for the items anymore...becuz everything is so 'safe' now...bring back the fear in this fuckin game...
i hate this topic...it always pisses me off becuz it's a reminder of what this game used to be back when it was awesome...
if they forced genrep they better make it so dimspliiter and other mc5 chips A) didnt decay in condition as much or B) are reppairable to 120%.
and FFS dont change belt drops in warzones.
Originally posted by Artie
drops == good.
losing millions == good.
exactly what class are you?
oviously not a ppu. the cheapest spell i have in my inventory is 50k because they cant be built. now ive had to buy tons of them to get a decent 3slots on them. then you have holy cath sanctum, truesight sanctum, holy heal, shelter, deflector. you have any idea how much it costs to fucking get those spells with decent slots? oviously not
ppu's are already the hardest class to level and the most expensive to have. if i start dropping shelter or a holy heal on a regular basis once my backups are gone you wont see me at an opfight. tanks can carry 2 weapons safely a CS and a epic speedgat since it wont drop in belts. i dont see how this would be fun it would more than likely make most people not want to fight. if you want belt drops in warzones go play on another server seriously.
Originally posted by SovKhan
exactly what class are you?
oviously not a ppu. the cheapest spell i have in my inventory is 50k because they cant be built. now ive had to buy tons of them to get a decent 3slots on them. then you have holy cath sanctum, truesight sanctum, holy heal, shelter, deflector. you have any idea how much it costs to fucking get those spells with decent slots? oviously not
ppu's are already the hardest class to level and the most expensive to have. if i start dropping shelter or a holy heal on a regular basis once my backups are gone you wont see me at an opfight. tanks can carry 2 weapons safely a CS and a epic speedgat since it wont drop in belts. i dont see how this would be fun it would more than likely make most people not want to fight. if you want belt drops in warzones go play on another server seriously.
wait, wait....if drops are enabled PPU's won't be at OP wars?!?! LOL ok. I would love to see that. ^_^
Beside's granted i play PE, but the chance of losing stuff is what makes this game fun. Before beta 4 you dropped EVERYTHING....=\
Originally posted by SovKhan
exactly what class are you?
oviously not a ppu. the cheapest spell i have in my inventory is 50k because they cant be built. now ive had to buy tons of them to get a decent 3slots on them. then you have holy cath sanctum, truesight sanctum, holy heal, shelter, deflector. you have any idea how much it costs to fucking get those spells with decent slots? oviously not
ppu's are already the hardest class to level and the most expensive to have. if i start dropping shelter or a holy heal on a regular basis once my backups are gone you wont see me at an opfight. tanks can carry 2 weapons safely a CS and a epic speedgat since it wont drop in belts. i dont see how this would be fun it would more than likely make most people not want to fight. if you want belt drops in warzones go play on another server seriously.
I think it's fair, the class which dies the least drops the most valuable loot.
well then you have to NOT die ..right? . .. if your side wins you can collect the enemy PPU belt and get a spell .. .OR you can *gasp* retreat! OMG knowing when to quit!
heh as I've said. . .how about if items dropped where by percent .. . and ppu spells can have a even Lower percent of dropping
lol i dont think KK gonna totally rework PvP drop tables so i dont think that is an option
Originally posted by Scikar
I think it's fair, the class which dies the least drops the most valuable loot.
So you agree not to nerf the PPU (with the countless threads) in return for belt drops in warzones?
I would agree. However the only issue then is the muppets who camp GR's in warzones to belt farm.
Dying for a PPU sucks big time as we carry the most expensive items in the game. Even the PA is a pain to get. (APU's that I have seen only need carry 4 spells and up to thier armpits in boosters and medkits.)
You may not see PPUs removed from Op wars straight away, but they would over time after a lot of people move away pissed off that it costing so much to replace thier stuff.
That said.. if you like Jupiter rules, play on Jupiter.
sanityislost
05-11-03, 23:28
hmmmmmm belt drops at op fights bad idea, no safe slots bad idea.
Not that everytime you make a comment I think ur stupid, but tazo, you keep coming with the best idiotic ideas...
Germans, lets be fair for starters, its a german game, and most of the beta (NOT all) was german based. Then when it went global, most of the english, lazy asses (I'm one of em :) ) didnt like the loss, or loss idea. So they have carebeared the game to accomplish a more universal feel, BUT, not everybody wants it that way, I've noticed since being on pluto that 2 things are different: 1. There is more of a community feeling about the place, not a "I'm better than you sencario on Uranus" (Which btw, you helped start ;p) and 2. I dont feel like RP Killing is as Important to the people on pluto.
You still get the annoying chars who wanna be "bad", but you feel you can explore the game and the RP more effectively.
MMORPG's at the end of the day, is what people pay for, I pay money for 2 accounts and I dont want to spend hours of time, THAT I'VE PAID FOR!, to go down the toilet in one idiot pkAr's second of lunacy.
I agree on one thing, that the SL changes were too harsh and ended the random pk's, which on multichar servers, isnt as bad as you have chars to fall back on. But if I loose all my rares/rebuilt spells/armor, just cus I accidently barrel to many people in the chaos caves, when the team size is only 8, thats harsh.
Ops should be redesigned, and the system rethought out. Look at unranus Right NOW and tell me how many clans in the OP list are allied, *ding*, thats right, all bar 1.
Any clan, should only be allowed one of each op, so thats 5. This stops monoplisation of the server and the server to stagnate. AND, ALL alliances must be put into force so allied clans get less OP's. Finally, and dont ask me how to do this cus I aint got a clue, OP fights, should only be between 2 clans, the defence and the offence, thus ending the 5 clans come to take out 1 clans op, cus they are allied and its RP :rolleyes:
Now I'm glad it was tazo who brought this up, cus his sence of RP, revolves around the clans his mates are in, so tell me what you think, and I'm not flaming, I've just seen the uranus server turn into a joke where the whole server allies against the one lone clan :P
Originally posted by Archeus
So you agree not to nerf the PPU (with the countless threads) in return for belt drops in warzones?
I would agree. However the only issue then is the muppets who camp GR's in warzones to belt farm.
Dying for a PPU sucks big time as we carry the most expensive items in the game. Even the PA is a pain to get. (APU's that I have seen only need carry 4 spells and up to thier armpits in boosters and medkits.)
You may not see PPUs removed from Op wars straight away, but they would over time after a lot of people move away pissed off that it costing so much to replace thier stuff.
That said.. if you like Jupiter rules, play on Jupiter.
If the PPUs all left OP wars then that would be like heaven, it would seriously be fun again. No I don't agree not to nerf the PPU in return for belt drops in warzones, since the fact that PPUs aren't scared of anarchy zones shows they wouldn't be fazed by drops in warzones. But nice try anyway.
What I would agree to is for PPUs to be nerfed but make level 3 buffs researchable and constructable, raise the stat cap on all non-rares, which also raises the slot chance making it easier to make slotted holy ppu spells. Things like the huge number of spells needed, and the difficulty of getting some of them, used to make me feel sorry for PPUs, until I found myself routinely parashocked by invulnerable 'medics' with apparently no offense. I would leave Cath Sanct though, you should have to choose between Holy Para and Cath Sanct.
I would play on Jupiter except I can't speak German very well. I'd rather play on a server where I don't have to ask everyone to repeat themselves in a different language just because I can't understand theirs.
If you force a limiting factor on the number of ppu's around, such as dropping belts, then as was said less ppu's will show up for op fights. I certainly won't be doin any op fights. However... Some still will... Guess what that means? An ultra elite few ppus will dominate each server to the exclusion of everyone else. Similarly to before how only a few ppus were really good and they dominated the clan scene. The big clans were good mostly because of their ppu's. Now everyone has ppu's, it's the clan with the most ppu's that wins. If you cut down on the number of ppu's you'll just go back to the way it was before. Is this an improvement? Not really... The top few clans will have the ppu's and noone else will be able to compete.
Don't bitch at ppu's because there are so many of us that you're paraspammed everywhere. Bitch at the ppl who demanded hybrids be castrated. Once they nixed the hybrids, they effectively forced us to all be apu or ppu. So suddenly everyone is complaining about how many apu's and ppu's there are. Thats what you get for demanding change without thinkin of repercussions.
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 00:28
Originally posted by Carinth
Don't bitch at ppu's because there are so many of us that you're paraspammed everywhere. Bitch at the ppl who demanded hybrids be castrated. Once they nixed the hybrids, they effectively forced us to all be apu or ppu. So suddenly everyone is complaining about how many apu's and ppu's there are. Thats what you get for demanding change without thinkin of repercussions.
People wanted hybrids balanced. The blame shouldn't be towards the people, it should be towards KK. It's not like KK asked 'the people' what pures should be like. People didn't design pures or make them overimportant, that was KK.
Nice try though Car. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
since the fact that PPUs aren't scared of anarchy zones shows they wouldn't be fazed by drops in warzones.
Really? Then why is the main PPUs bitch about having to restock?
News to me.
Hmmm, last time I bopped into TH at the wrong time. 3 vs me. Dead in 7 seconds.
OZ fully buffed/HH/HHS running. Almost dead in 15 seconds (they stopped after they actually listened to why I was there).
Sorry, but PPUs are not gods. We can take some serious punishment but we are not immortal.
Carinth is technically right. What I can see happening is a lot of PPUs will not turn up for OP wars as they can't be assed restocking each time they die. Or cheap spells will used, or they will expect restocking by thier clan. For some clans it won't be a problem for others they won't be able to get a PPU/APU to the fight.
Originally posted by XanX
Now I'm glad it was tazo who brought this up, cus his sence of RP, revolves around the clans his mates are in, so tell me what you think, and I'm not flaming, I've just seen the uranus server turn into a joke where the whole server allies against the one lone clan :P
man, i feel so special... here go 9 goddamn months since i left uranus for good, and ppl STILL havent forgotten me...
Originally posted by g0rt
Yes
Reverse the carebear rules they only help RUIN the game, not help better it.
One safe slot should be enought. You should drop EVERYTHING ELSE when you die. Believe it or not, it works out....yes you may lose all ur armor and secondary weaponry when you die...but when you kill someone else then you can get it all back! OH MY THE SYSTEM WORKS!
Think about it. Cut the carebear crap.
DUH!! what about those who doing want to pvp eh
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 04:04
..It's far more complex then you paint it XanX and the leaders of Syndicate probably know they brought it on themselves...they wanted it this way, and they are having helluh fun with it...
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
and they are having helluh fun with it...
Hell Yeah!! :D
Its nice to see that out of my post people gleem what they want and leave the rest. How very constructive of people, the problems with this game will kill the game in the end, things need to change to keep nc more interesting, just us die hard fans wont keep KK alive, they need everybody to have a small interest in being on NC, but with current trends on all servers (at least uranus and pluto to a much small er extenet from wot I've seen), this is not gonna change.
actually lately ive been noticing about 50-100 moreppl on than usuall on pluto...durring off peak times(im west coast cali) dunno how it is durring euro on peak times
•Super|\|ova•
06-11-03, 23:32
I think that in the end that would ruin the OPwars. Lets say that clan A and clan B are fighting over an OP and the clan B loses. They might lose ALOT of stuff that they NEED for OPwars and aren't so easy to find again. 2 hours later one of their OPs are being hacked. Layers going down. Now they have 2 chances; either going there with less ppl since few of them lost their maybe the most important items in that last battle OR they will not show up and lose the OP. And the shit would go on and on and on and on.
It might be really fun at first but imagine when a clan loses like 3-5 wars in a row and loses shit loads of valuable stuff. Oh, and if this wouldn't happen then it would definitely be the option that someone already mentioned; lame tactics... "do anything to win". Odds like 40vs12, turretdropping while stealthed, TL3 healing, tradewindow opening and so on. And after all it really would be the factions that would fight over an OP, not the clans.
I don't want that shit. No thanks.
Amen.
you really don't need rares to take out a op. All you need is a gun. People are obsessed with always having the best, but sometimes you can do it with less than perf stuff. Beside's everyone looks atthe negative. What about the clan that has all that bounty? perhaps the losing clan can cut a deal with them, and pay them cash for some stuff that they need. Perhaps they can do something in return maybe....and beside's....if they keep losing over and over, they're obviously doing something wrong. Losing stuff is one of the caveats to op wars. Heh.
I think there are definitely valid points on both ends.
For one I think this would only encourage the powerful and elite to take part in op wars. The fat would only get fatter. FF is well over 100 members right now and thats WITHOUT belt drops. Just imagine what would happen to them with belt drops. I fear no one would want to fight them. Yet despite this fear, the above doesn't seem to have happened to Jupiter.
Would players not bring their best? I would still bring my best. My PE carries multiple weapons and spells and I would still bring them all. Same with my PPU. I would bring my best. But I would definitely lose these often. This could potentially give a huge park to the Neocron economy. People are still doing large batch jobs currently, but no where near the level that it was before the no war zone drop.
The argument has been made that op wars are supposed to be for fun and not for profit. But tell me honestly. For any one besides myself that sometimes gets "the shakes" during combat. Do you really ever get them when you have nothing at all to lose? I certainly don't. Fighting is just that much more fun when you have something to lose. As it is right now people can just lose and come back as many times as they want until they win. In that way it's really made people sloppy.
It's obvious that there are pluses and minuses to war zone belt drops, but I think a good halfway point is to make belts only drop a small percentage of the time in war zones. Such as, you only drop a belt 20% of the time in a war zone. I think just the possiblity of war zone belt drops would increase the fun-o-meter of the game.
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