View Full Version : Matrix 3 (**SPOILERS**)
http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_835273.html
Looks even worse than 2 :(
Nullifidian
04-11-03, 18:51
Bugger.
I was hoping for at least a semi-intelligent, cool ending. Some kind of revellation. Some kind of cool twist. A surprise. Doesn't look like we're going to get that this Friday.
Bugger.
Gonna go see it on saturday. Well, critics are critics. So therefore I don't trust 'em before I see myself.
// Wannabe
this is a spoiler right? i dont wanna click it incase i ruin the film so if it is you should like...say so or something.
Originally posted by Nexxy
this is a spoiler right? i dont wanna click it incase i ruin the film so if it is you should like...say so or something.
Not a spoiler IMO. It was just some critics shooting the movie down.
// Wannabe
Promethius
04-11-03, 18:56
Well i hope its got some twists and machines die and free the human race. And if they fail maybe they take a few agent smiths with us =P.
Still going to see it even if it sux more than the LoM nerf.
its out tomorrow not Friday in UK, Im looking forward to it and I loved the 2nd one so I bet I love this one, The story line is unique and the effects are class IMO
but we are all entitled to have an opinion arn't we... unless the government has stripped us of that too o_O
I liked Matrix 1, but i went to see 2 in theaters and i walked out. I might go see 3 just to see if it get worse.
Promethius
04-11-03, 19:01
Originally posted by Ultima
its out tomorrow not Friday in UK, Im looking forward to it and I loved the 2nd one so I bet I love this one, The story line is unique and the effects are class IMO
but we are all entitled to have an opinion arn't we... unless the government has stripped us of that too o_O
ultima if you see it or anyone sees matrix 3 tomorrow Start a thread or respond in this one saying if you liked it or not....but don't say ANYTHING about it...just good ro bad =P.
(rollercoasters in teh dark aren't fun if the lights are on)
[EDit: wow i just read this article (http://www.upcomingmovies.com/matrix3.html) Says that the women that played "the oracle" died...a while back actually. Also the matrix was almost moved to Wednesday Nov 5 instead of friday.
NERF TEH CIRITICS!!111oneoneonetwotwoeightpointfive
i hate film critics i loved the second film and ill fucking love this one to fuck anyone elses oppinion :D :D
The Matrix PWNS j00
~T
I predict this the film will be 1 massive fight sequence this time (as opposed to 3) between smiths and Neo with some thin plot thrown in that wont really make any sence
Yes, I was dispointed with the second film.
There's no spoilers in there or I would have said so.
IMO if you've seen the trailer you've probably seen 90% of the movie. Certainly that was the case for 2, the trailer contained most of the 10mins of decent action scenes, so all that was left was 2 hours of bollox and 20 minutes of mediocre-to-crap SFX. The reviews seem to be confirming this is the case again.
Shame. :(
Nullifidian
04-11-03, 19:36
I liked the plot of Reloaded. Really liked the plot. I hated the fight scenes though, expecially the ones with Neo. Come on, Neo is invincible inside the Matrix at this point so there's no sense of urgency when he fights. I liked watching Morpheus and Trinity fight a lot better.
The Neo fights were genuinely boring to watch. Instead of kung fu, I'd much prefer he whip out some seriously bizarre powers. I mean, he can stop bullets and all, he should be doing some more cool stuff like that. The kung fu thing at this point is older than old. Plus, they should at least make an effort to make it look like he's moving faster than everyone else. To me, he seems to be moving like your average human when he's fighting. Nothing special at all. Except of course the Smith fight, which was just simply boring. Real boring. Too long and too boring. And too obviously CG'd at parts.
It comes out tomorrow (11/5) and the critics can suck my dick, this movie will be awesome.
Originally posted by jernau
Looks even worse than 2 :( [/B]
Matrix 2 was ok. What was wrong with it?
If you're expecting a movie as good as Matrix 1....dont be so naive. Not only are sequals never as good, but Matrix 1 had something that 2 and 3 could NEVER have.....originality.
It is technically a spoiler at the end.. for example.
Spoiler: They tell you that Neo is trapped between worlds, which would imply that the real world is not in fact the real world, again they point this out by saying that Zion fights to save the city when we know according to the second movie Zion was already wiped out. I saw a trailer of the fight and thought prehaps it was showing the past but the spoiler seems to imply otherwise.
: End Spoiler (Highlight to read) thanks Folsom.
Other reviews... http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheMatrixRevolutions-10000557/
Incidently I watched the first Matrix the other day. While the second has way better effects I have to say I enjoyed the first one a lot more.
Test.
If you couldn't read the above line, then it's #505050. :P
In case you're wondering, accesible by using [color=#505050].
1 was amzin 2 was soddin brillient and if the plot fits 3 will we a god send.
only people i know who dont like the second one are people who cant be arsed to get there head around the storyline adn plot twists
Nullifidian
04-11-03, 20:22
Originally posted by Archeus
It is technically a spoiler at the end.. for example.
Spoiler: They tell you that Neo is trapped between worlds, which would imply that the real world is not in fact the real world, again they point this out by saying that Zion fights to save the city when we know according to the second movie Zion was already wiped out. I saw a trailer of the fight and thought prehaps it was showing the past but the spoiler seems to imply otherwise.
: End Spoiler (Highlight to read) thanks Folsom.
Other reviews... http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/TheMatrixRevolutions-10000557/
Incidently I watched the first Matrix the other day. While the second has way better effects I have to say I enjoyed the first one a lot more.
GOD. That "spoiler" is from another friggin person who didn't understand Reloaded.
moderate spoiler:
Zion was NOT destroyed in Reloaded. How many fucktards don't get that is amazing. The COUNTER OFFENSIVE was wiped out. Zion itself is still alive and kicking. Jesus H. Christ, that's been explained a thousand times over.
end spoiler.
well if anyone saw the making of (channel 5 few weeks ago) they explain alot more, i'm not gonna say anything cos i'm gonna see it tomorrow but the fight scene is very cool.
Well if you want a laugh, There's this link.
Ok this is strange. (hell it's gonna offend someone) (http://awesomehouse.com/matrix/parallels.html)
also im not gonna read that link because
A) critics talk crap half the time
and
B) I dont wanna spoil anything for my self
on a side note Equilibrium rules :D :D :D :D :D :D
Originally posted by Nullifidian
GOD. That "spoiler" is from another friggin person who didn't understand Reloaded.
moderate spoiler:
Zion was NOT destroyed in Reloaded. How many fucktards don't get that is amazing. The COUNTER OFFENSIVE was wiped out. Zion itself is still alive and kicking. Jesus H. Christ, that's been explained a thousand times over.
end spoiler.
Erm...
At the end of the second movie one of the crew mention only a handful of people survive the machines (Agent Smith being one of them) as they dug on through passed Zion, they kept digging.
It is also hinted at the end of the second movie where Neo says "Wait, Something is different I can sense them" then is able to stop the machines from attacking. The arcitect also mentions that Zion has been rebuilt a number of times by the machines, and the fact that Neo in all his incantations looks the same would imply that the machine world we have seen so far is not real. Otherwise he wouldn't look the same as his predessors?
. ergo ipso facto concordantly. :p
Of course I could be remembering it wrong. I'll fire up the DVD later and get the exact quote.
Nullifidian
04-11-03, 20:30
Originally posted by Thundra
also im not gonna read that link because
A) critics talk crap half the time
and
B) I dont wanna spoil anything for my self
on a side note Equilibrium rules :D :D :D :D :D :D
Equilibrium had THE most beautiful gunfights in any movie, ever. I don't care about the realism of it, they were artistically FANTASTIC gunfights. Especially the final fight in the end between him and that other dude. The one where they are practically fencing with their pistols. Truly awsome.
THAT is the type of fighting I like to see in a movie.
I don't think Revolutions will come anywhere near that, but as I said, Matrix fight scenes sucked in Reloaded, so I'm not expected any good fight scenes in Revolutions.
@ the Archeus:
In Reloaded, at the end, they are talking about the counter offensive. When they went back for survivors of the COUNTER OFFENSIVE, they only found 1. Zion hasn't been attacked yet. If you remember, the general wanted to launch a pre-emptive strike. They talk about how it should have worked but someone set off an EMP too early and everything went to shit.
What it means is that there are few if any Hovercrafts left to defend Zion once the machines drill through. It does NOT mean that Zion is wiped out.
i liked equilibriums fight sceans were so good as they wernt so over the top unrealistic. there was no super high jumping or super high stregnth. it was all technically possible but u just know no one could do what he does. Best martial arts theory ever in my opinion .
but i normally dont like over the top jumping and stuff but i liked the matrix as there was a reason for it. i think the third one will be good as neo is fighting a Smith that is as strng as him by the looks of it so that sense of ergency will return.
Whitestuff
04-11-03, 21:25
Critics always shoot down good movies IMO, even though I am not saying The Matrix 3 is gonna be a good one.....
After close examination of the Matrix 2 (reloaded or whatever...) I like it better cause I can understand what the author were going for and I am not so caught up in the "oh all the stunts are CGI now. lame...." way of thinking.
The matrix 2 was... ok
but there where no
GUNS!
ffs I wanted to se a new scene like the one where they saves Morpehus. Loads of bullets and awsomes slomo scenes almost a hardon O_o
And the trailer I have seen there are TEH guns cant be any worze then Matrix "yoga" 2 :rolleyes:
I said it once and i will say it again, Matrix 1 was great, Matrix 2 was not meant to be great just meant to get you ready for Matrix 3. But Matrix 2 was still a pretty good movie. And Matrix 3 is gonna be great as long as you watched the other two movies and actually understand them.
You gotta think about who is writing these reviews of most of the movies. They are morons that cant comprehend basic philosophy so they instead of saying they didnt understand it they say that it was useless muttering. Hell this review even got the release date wrong. They say november 7th but it is the 5th and it will be released all over the world in the same hour. Hence some countries might get it the 6th but none get it released the 7th.
Anyhow for anyone that has taken philosophy classes and understands philosophy all these movies are great. So instead of saying that any of the movies suck how about you first post whether or not you could understand the plot of a movie that is more than that of Find Nemo.
im gonna watch matrix revolutions in 19 hrs and 23 mins now :D
OMG THE FIGHTING SCENES IN RELOADED SUCKED AND I COULD SEE CGI LEAKING OUT AND IT IT WAS YUCKY AND GOOEY AND THEN THIS COLONEL SANDERS GUY WAS TALKING IN 20 MIN ABOUT EQUATIONS AND MATHS AND MATHS IS BORING AND THEN HE WAS CLICKING HIS PEN 20 TIME AND THEN HE TALKED SOME MORE ABOUT SOMETHING BOOORRRRING PLUS THE FIGHTING SCENE MUSIC SUCKED TOO I HATE THIS TECHNO CLASSIC CRAP I WANT HEAVY METAL LIKE KORN AND LINKIN PARK BECAUSE THEY ARE SO COOOL LOL WHEN THEY FIGHT. ALSO THERE WERE NO GUNS AND WHY WAAS MORPHEUS USING A GLOCK MACHINE PISTOL? LOL WHATA NOOB DEAGLE IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO AND WHY DDINT HE KNIFE THE TWINS ROFL ALSO THE RAVE SCENE WAS SO COOL BECAUSE YOU COULD SEE NEOS ASS CHEEKS LOL ^__^ AND THEN THEY MADE THIS COOL RAVE MUSIC WITH ONLY DRUMS AND DINNER PLATES AND I WAS LIKE OMG SO COOL
Mkay,
Matrix 1............awesome,
Matrix 2.............not so awesome but had a real hot lady, also confused me, raised too many questions and made me want to see three.
Matrix 3...............dunno, neve trust the critics........theyr overly critical
Originally posted by t0tt3
The matrix 2 was... ok
but there where no
GUNS!
ffs I wanted to se a new scene like the one where they saves Morpehus. Loads of bullets and awsomes slomo scenes almost a hardon O_o
They used guns for a while in the highway chase scene.
Also, I thought the fight with all the medieval weapons was a lot more entertaining then a gun fight.
PS: No use in guns now since Neo can stop the bullets (displayed at the beginning of the weapons fight). ;)
Originally posted by Oath
Matrix 2.............not so awesome but had a real hot lady, also confused me, raised too many questions and made me want to see three.
I think that was the point...
Nullifidian
04-11-03, 22:29
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
They used guns for a while in the highway chase scene.
Also, I thought the fight with all the medieval weapons was a lot more entertaining then a gun fight.
PS: No use in guns now since Neo can stop the bullets (displayed at the beginning of the weapons fight). ;)
What's stupid is, if he can stop bullets, reason dictates if he can stop bullets, he can stop other stuff too. Like large weapons being heaved at his head. And like simpletons attempting yet more boring kung fu on him. As in stop instantly just by thinking about it.
Honestly I'd find it more interesting for him to just blink and have shit explode or deconstruct, or simply drop dead. Would make him a lot cooler.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
I think that was the point...
I know.
:p :lol:
The coolest in Matrix 2 is the end.. Are they in a matrix in a matrix? Or are Neo tha god? Killing machines with his bare pshycic "or what eva" that was the best part :p
Plz gimme part 3 now 8|
What was that shit critics are payed plain and simple.
When you go to advertise your movie there is the critic option to select more money you pay the more critics give your movie 2 thumbs up.
They shot the 1st one down to and it in my opinion is one of the best movies ever number 2 was insanely good as well. Did it make sense the 1st time not really I only really got the whole thing the 2nd time around but once you sit and use 2% of your brain the movie makes perfect sense and is quite clever.
So fuck critics pay top dollar and you got a great review.
QuantumDelta
04-11-03, 22:53
Big names, and big things, make big targets, for small critics.
Originally posted by Nullifidian
What's stupid is, if he can stop bullets, reason dictates if he can stop bullets, he can stop other stuff too. Like large weapons being heaved at his head. And like simpletons attempting yet more boring kung fu on him. As in stop instantly just by thinking about it.
Honestly I'd find it more interesting for him to just blink and have shit explode or deconstruct, or simply drop dead. Would make him a lot cooler.
It would be too similar to Jedi in SW using there Force Push and Pull then. ;)
Honestly though, it wouldn't be much of a scene if Neo just used his powers to throw weapons and shit at them without even lifting a muscle. Take it for what's worth: a cool fight scene.
Nullifidian
04-11-03, 23:56
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
It would be too similar to Jedi in SW using there Force Push and Pull then. ;)
Honestly though, it wouldn't be much of a scene if Neo just used his powers to throw weapons and shit at them without even lifting a muscle. Take it for what's worth: a cool fight scene.
But it wasn't a "cool fight scene" it was boring as hell and poorly choreographed. Honestly, the fight scenes in Reloaded sucked a seriously huge fatty. Bigtime. We're talkin orca fat. It was drawn out and unnecessary, like when they break into song in musicals. About 20 minutes into the Smith fight scene for example, I wanted to tear my eyes out of my skull to end the pain.
It would have been far more entertaining to see Neo simply smite them.
Or, Neo could have shot them. Just because they can't use guns on him doesn't mean he can't use guns on them.
Promethius
04-11-03, 23:57
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
It would be too similar to Jedi in SW using there Force Push and Pull then. ;)
Honestly though, it wouldn't be much of a scene if Neo just used his powers to throw weapons and shit at them without even lifting a muscle. Take it for what's worth: a cool fight scene.
Yeah i personaly like the fighting without guns but it would be cool if one of the agents had a punch really fast and they showed it in slomo witht he ripples around his hand and neo kick him int he balls or something lol:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Originally posted by Nullifidian
But it wasn't a "cool fight scene" it was boring as hell and poorly choreographed. Honestly, the fight scenes in Reloaded sucked a seriously huge fatty. Bigtime. We're talkin orca fat. It was drawn out and unnecessary, like when they break into song in musicals. About 20 minutes into the Smith fight scene for example, I wanted to tear my eyes out of my skull to end the pain.
It would have been far more entertaining to see Neo simply smite them.
Or, Neo could have shot them. Just because they can't use guns on him doesn't mean he can't use guns on them.
Oh well, those are your opinions, I thought the fight scenes were cool and way better then the first. :)
Psychoninja
05-11-03, 00:04
I'm a sad little ninja :(
I didn't get tickets for the sneak preview :(
Here let me give you a synopsis.
Matrix 1 - Good as standalone. Piece of shit as an intro into the story.
Matrix 2 - Piece of shit.
Matrix 3 - High detailed piece of shit.
Maddox said it best as a review of Reloaded.
http://maddox.xmission.com/time_machine3.gif
well thats your opinion.
i though fight sceans were cool and story was very indepth if u take the time to work it out properly
added together make a class film.
Shadow Dancer
05-11-03, 00:59
Someone "spoiled" matrix 3 for me. I dunno how, maybe they were full of shit or maybe they weren't. Anyone wanna hear this "supposed" spoiler?
trouble is theres never a right or wrong, especially in a case like this where ppl seem to be 50/50
I don't like boring romantic chick flicks, but I don't assume that everyone feels the same, so I don't go round saying they suck and list why.
Clownst0pper
05-11-03, 01:03
The sad thing about the matrix is the Wachowski brothers set a new standard of film, one with love, action, suspese and shock. It can be understood that replicating or beating the original would be difficult, and yes they didnt but number 2 was brilliant, and as much as the matrix story could have gone.
three will be as good, so just chill
how the hell can you say the fight scenes where boring as hell....
when i was watchin the fight scenes for first time at movie theater i was laughing so much couple mins into the fight because it was so good
and when u compare the matrix to equilibrium, you cant say any of them is better because they are both TOP STUFF
when the dvd was released i watched it 3 times in 2 days ok
Shadow Dancer
05-11-03, 01:07
Equilibrium's fight scenes OWNED.
Clownst0pper
05-11-03, 01:09
Equilibrium's fight scenes OWNED.
the final one did, the rest were rubbish
if it wasnt for the matrix, 99% of fight scenes would still be in the stone age
Shadow Dancer
05-11-03, 01:11
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
the final one did, the rest were rubbish
if it wasnt for the matrix, 99% of fight scenes would still be in the stone age
omg, the final one was LEET.
How could you not like the others?
Gun katas>u
Clownst0pper
05-11-03, 01:14
omg, the final one was LEET.
agree, I was suprised the matrix didnt have something like that incorperating trying to shoot each other / avoid the bullets in close quarter fighting looked sweet, the others..Well, bland camera action, awful CG, and stupidly unrealistic, remember the matrix has the ability to claim everything is possible, we know this is attempting to be done IRL
Mr Friendly
05-11-03, 01:15
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Bugger.
I was hoping for at least a semi-intelligent, cool ending. Some kind of revellation. Some kind of cool twist. A surprise. Doesn't look like we're going to get that this Friday.
Bugger.
the twist was at the end of part 2, part 3 is just the ending to it all.
twist: at the end when it shows the guy on a table beside Neo. that's Agent Smith unplugged jtlyk ;)
neway, ur crazy if u think part 3 isnt gunna be awesome
Shadow Dancer
05-11-03, 01:17
No one wants to hear the supposed mega spoiler from part 3? :p
Logan Tyrus
05-11-03, 01:30
Originally posted by Alan
Well if you want a laugh, There's this link.
Ok this is strange. (hell it's gonna offend someone) (http://awesomehouse.com/matrix/parallels.html)
Yeh Alan the films are CHOCKABLOCK of religous references. Do a search on each of the characters names for starters!
And no, no one wants to hear your spoiler Shadow.
18hrs & 40mins...
I really dont know how some of you think the fight scenes were retared I thought they were really good and I thought matrix 2 was really good.
I seriously think some of you are damaged goods after reading some posts on this board.
PS I really dont need to hear any spoilers
Originally posted by g0rt
Not only are sequals never as good
Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, Aliens, Temple of Doom, most Bond films, Godfather Part 2, Two Towers, T2, Army of Darkness.........................
Originally posted by Thundra
only people i know who dont like the second one are people who cant be arsed to get there head around the storyline adn plot twists
Only people who say that kind of bollox need to get their heads out their asses, stop making sites like this (http://matrix-explained.com), read a few grown-up books, see some decent cinema then think again.
Originally posted by Archeus
Incidently I watched the first Matrix the other day. While the second has way better effects I have to say I enjoyed the first one a lot more.
Something of a matter of taste here but I'd say that 2 is grossly inferior in this regard. Some parts were nice but there was nothing new there at all and some of it was piss-poor. I thought the film had warped during the Smiths fight the FX were so skewed.
@element - the release date changed a while back I think. I can excuse that though I tend to agree most reviewers are much as you describe.
@nullfidian - bang on dude. This is one of it's biggest problems. The first film basically ended nicely but after it became a huge hit they wanted to cash in and make more. In order to do this though they had to build on a frankly laughable story centred around one of the worst actors in history.
IMO it's pretty clear the Wachowski's are one-hit wonders. All art-forms have them including cinema. With the first film they made a landmark action movie, no more and no less. People who say it's either unique or original are wrong, it's neither. It is however a great movie because it beautifully merges many technical and artistic forms so well. The evidence suggests however that this blend was found by blind luck and that it's creators will never match it again.
Equilibrium was fun. It had a lot in common with Matrix 2 - shitty story, ludicrous characters, piss-poor script, etc. but it was 100x more fun because it wasn't trying to live up to anything. I'd say the fight scenes in Equilibrium look a bit cheaper but are still better because they are both better thought out and better implemented.
Originally posted by jernau
@nullfidian - bang on dude. This is one of it's biggest problems. The first film basically ended nicely but after it became a huge hit they wanted to cash in and make more. In order to do this though they had to build on a frankly laughable story centred around one of the worst actors in history.
[/B]
Im 99% sure that they always planned on a triology, but as they were making the 2nd movie sum died in a plane crash and the whole thing got set back a few years
Originally posted by Ultima
Im 99% sure that they always planned on a triology, but as they were making the 2nd movie sum died in a plane crash and the whole thing got set back a few years
So they say now but I'd like to see a statement to that effect that provably precedes the release of the first film. I could be wrong but I think it's BS and they just decided that as they were being compared to Lucas at the time they'd "borrow" that from him.
QuantumDelta
05-11-03, 03:37
Originally posted by jernau
Only people who say that kind of bollox need to get their heads out their asses, stop making sites like this (http://matrix-explained.com), read a few grown-up books, see some decent cinema then think again.
.................Reading some of that site made me want to stick my finger through my eye, into my brain, and swirl it around...
Originally posted by jernau
So they say now but I'd like to see a statement to that effect that provably precedes the release of the first film. I could be wrong but I think it's BS and they just decided that as they were being compared to Lucas at the time they'd "borrow" that from him.
Well they may of left it till they new the success of the first film, but im sure they had the story there it was just whether to continue the saga or not.
I actually enjoyed the second one, maybe not as much as the first but i still enjoyied it, i like multi layered storylines that attempt to keep you guessing, although in worse films it can be universally confuseing, matrix 1 didnt attempt this you knew Neo/Mr Anderson of them was going to be the "one" its just a question of how he was going to psychologically/physically realise this, number 2 was obviously going to be a middle of the book/plot thickener that introduces new concepts. charecters, sub plots and integue into the final out come, but it has to explain the ideals of the first chapter and attempt to bring it to a new level of action and continueing the story in a realistic and coherant fashion to keep veiwers entranced, choice was a very real factor in the second installment and those choices were acted upon the 3rd installment will be the outcome of those choices, which it suceeded in doing becuase it was a multi billion £/$ grossing film and you can guarentee that the 3rd installment will be too if the number of CS kiddies called -=Neo=- N30 and all that other crap go to see it!!
sequals are quite often failiers becuase for instance bullet time has been used effectively in other massive films so the novelty has worn off, personally the scene in which Neo battles the Virus Agent Anderson in the park after speaking to the oricle was quite amazing and definitely a unique veiwing experiance.
There has been nothing like Matrix since.......... when? the last matrix?
Originally posted by jernau
Only people who say that kind of bollox need to get their heads out their asses, stop making sites like this (http://matrix-explained.com), read a few grown-up books, see some decent cinema then think again.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
....Reading some of that site made me want to stick my finger through my eye, into my brain, and swirl it around...
Quoted for truth.
@element - the release date changed a while back I think. I can excuse that though I tend to agree most reviewers are much as you describe.
@jernau actually they didnt change it because for awhile now they were planning on the zero hour release thing where all theaters release at the same hour. They even have the count down on their site and it shows all around the world what time and what day it is released.
twist: at the end when it shows the guy on a table beside Neo. that's Agent Smith unplugged jtlyk
Agent Smith never had a human body of his own that was plugged into the matrix. He was always a machine program. Smith posesses Banes body and uses it to get into the real world. So he wasnt really unplugged. ;)
bang on dude. This is one of it's biggest problems. The first film basically ended nicely but after it became a huge hit they wanted to cash in and make more.
Ended nicely??? You obviously blacked out for the last scene of the matrix 1. Infact, did you even follow the story...AT ALL? Matrix 1 ends with so many questions remaining anyone with a shred of logic could see a trilogy coming. If you watched Reloaded and followed the plot you would understand that the last 2 parts of the trilogy were not just thrown in to make a quick buck. Saying so is rather ignorant.
In order to do this though they had to build on a frankly laughable story
Once again you clearly dont understand the plot/story or you simply dont have enough intellect to comprehend it.
centred around one of the worst actors in history.
Thats not a popular opinion..... *cough* :rolleyes: So I guess if someone makes a few bad movies they have no future hope for acting good ever again....EVER. :lol:
But hey. If you didnt like the movie or got bored during the Smith fight (if that doesnt remotely excite you...wtf would?...wait i dont want to think about it 8| ) thats your opinion. To each his own.
Ok Null your right sorry for doubting you :D
Btw, the real thing that pissed me off about Matrix 2 is there is a ton of crap in the movie that makes no sense unless you played "Enter the Matrix" and watched the "Animatrix".
Originally posted by StrongSad
Ended nicely??? You obviously blacked out for the last scene of the matrix 1. Infact, did you even follow the story...AT ALL? Matrix 1 ends with so many questions remaining anyone with a shred of logic could see a trilogy coming. If you watched Reloaded and followed the plot you would understand that the last 2 parts of the trilogy were not just thrown in to make a quick buck. Saying so is rather ignorant.
So all movies have to end by spoon-feeding the audience all the answers, tying up all the loose ends and the hero riding off into the sunset do they? I hope you like it there in Bruckheimer-land.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by StrongSad
Once again you clearly dont understand the plot/story or you simply dont have enough intellect to comprehend it.
See my comment above about this kind of nonsense. The plot is a farking joke. It's not "clever", it's unsavable shit. Open your eyes, perform some realistic assesments of the plot elements, characters and continuity. This didn't matter in part 1 because that wasn't a plot-driven film, it concentrated on action. Part 2 was plot-based hence it needed a good plot but it didn't have one.
As for Keanu :lol: :lol:
Originally set forth by Maddox:
I know most of you who liked this movie are probably reading this and saying "STUPID MADOX [sic]! YOU JUST DIDN'T GET IT." Oh no, I got it, it's just that once I got it, I didn't want it anymore. There are going to be websites popping up left and right trying to justify this movie, trying to rationalize everything, but there's one thing all these geeks are forgetting: just because a movie makes sense, doesn't mean it's good. There are plenty of movies that make sense, and are about as entertaining as a box of pig shit.
Reflects my opinions on Reloaded and Revolutions, not to mention everyone who told me xxx times how I didn't get it, and if I got it, I'd like it :rolleyes: .
OMG j00 DONT UNDERSTAND! You have to take philosophy 101 in order to understand this ACTION MOVIE ABOUT GUN FIGHTS AND NIJNA SHIT, its not just needless exposition from two comic book geeks who have been given ten billyan dollaes to create their wet dream
Originally posted by t0tt3
The matrix 2 was... ok
but there where no
GUNS!
I've seen a few trailers and the "Making of..." feature that was on after The Matrix on UK TV about a week ago. I believe there will be gunplay, and that you won't be disappointed. :)
That's as far as I'll go, don't want to let slip any spoilers. :)
QuantumDelta
05-11-03, 13:36
It's live action anime reaps.
That is exactly what it is, it says that in animatrix, and the two brothers just smile when they're asked about it.
Originally posted by Archeus
Ok Null your right sorry for doubting you :D
Btw, the real thing that pissed me off about Matrix 2 is there is a ton of crap in the movie that makes no sense unless you played "Enter the Matrix" and watched the "Animatrix".
That's kinda the point, Matrix was filmed by the brothers.
Then the idea was conceived for Animatrix and motion set into action for it's creation.
Then EtM was filmed *by the brothers* (note EtM is a shit game mainly because all it does is tell a story, the fighting is not hard the levels are not hard I completed it in about 3-6 hours without trying..).
Then Matrix 2 Was filmed.
Then Matrix 3 Was filmed.
The brothers oversaw *EVERYTHING* Matrix, the only thing that's matrix related they did not directly attend, was the adverts.
They wanted it to be a story told over a multimedia format (the accountants obviously loved THAT because of the money).
You've got cinemamatics, You've got PS2, You've got Anime.
There's more too, AFAIK.
All of it is relevent to the story..
They created a world, not a film, they treat everything, EVERYTHING as a continuation and enhancement of that world.
It's the same as anime, miss one part (...unless it's like DragonBallZ...) and you're screwed for storyline :p
:lol: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123237
(If you haven't seen Eastenders you won't get the joke).
They wanted it to be a story told over a multimedia format
It is something like the soul selling money whore Lucas would do, I am sure he is kicking himself he didn't get there first.
QuantumDelta
05-11-03, 14:16
It's easy to look at it like that, but it's not really like that... though some of the people around them wanted to market it like that for those reasons, the brothers, when they first thought the idea up were much in the type of Dreamy " I want a matrix anime..." and "I want a matrix game..." the concept from then on went into relevent stuff really... they wanted it to be an extension of the matrix...not a recap (check nema :p)...
You should read the docu's on the end of the DVDs :p
Jesterthegreat
05-11-03, 14:16
ill prolly see it...
but the 2nd one was indeed lame, but its the middle part - no beginning and no edn - it will NEVER be good
3 might be watchable?
Originally posted by jernau
Only people who say that kind of bollox need to get their heads out their asses, stop making sites like this (http://matrix-explained.com), read a few grown-up books, see some decent cinema then think again.
is this an insult at me???
if so please explain as all i said was it pisses me off when people watch the film , dont understand the story or take the time to understand it and then say its crap
i didnt mean look into it so deeply u come out with all this religius stuff. just ment the main story its ment to tell.
Originally posted by Archeus
[BIt is something like the soul selling money whore Lucas would do, I am sure he is kicking himself he didn't get there first. [/B]
He did - Shadows Of The Empire.
@Thundra - No personal insult intended. Comments along the line of "you just don't get it" are IMO useless though. I did "get it" it's just that it's not worth having. There are far too many excitable fanbois on the Matrix bandwagon raving about how it's so deep and meaningful when it's neither. The second one tried to be but started from on such ropey foundations it's failure was innevitable.
QuantumDelta
05-11-03, 17:15
Originally posted by jernau
He did - Shadows Of The Empire.
Please, keep ALL Star Wars games except X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter Away from me...........
AWAY AWAY EVUL!...................ugh.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Please, keep ALL Star Wars games except X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter Away from me...........
AWAY AWAY EVUL!...................ugh.
X-Wing is king of SW games IMO. It was the only one where wingmen counted for anything and you actually had to think to win a fight.
Tie-Fighter was fantastic but had some silly flaws.
X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter was v.nice and had networking which would have ruled if had been more stable.
Jesterthegreat
05-11-03, 17:19
... the origional Tie Fighter > X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter :p
uneducated fool :lol:
acually the thing i found funniest was that the first matrix came out adn there was so many people talkin crap about its religius reference and i thought the second film compleatly prooved it was all a load of bull.
there was a lot of aparent deepa dn meaningfull crap about the first one and its just people looked way to deep into a film.
i dont do that i just make sure i understand the full storyline thats intended b4 i judge a film. i know a lot of people that watcha film and base it all on the visuals and there just sad if u ask me. also know a lot of people that go to extreem on the story and there sad too lol. u need to just take the film for what it is. action packed film with a clever story on it
Promethius
05-11-03, 20:14
Well I've always liked Existentialism movies. Realities inside realities inside matrix's. I'm not saying its teh 'Deepest' movie there ever was. But it does make you stop and think. The first time i saw the matrix 1 (the best) I loved the idea it had how everything you ever known is fake. ALtho the Matrix 2 wasn't a great movie i liked the ending. ****IF ANYONE HASN"T SEEN IT DON"T READ REST oF POST****
I liked how he killed the sentinells ...and he coudl feel him. Which to me means hes inside another matrix. I dunno I jsut liek these movies. (also Total Recall has the same business, when it ended you don't kno if hes been brainwashed and went through his adventure or he just went on that trip he signed up for.)
-Prom
***QUOTE FROM PROMETHEUS!!!! DONT READ!!!11!oneone***
Originally posted by Promethius
I liked how he killed the sentinells ...and he coudl feel him. Which to me means hes inside another matrix. I dunno I jsut liek these movies.
watch the 3rd, hehe, u will be enlightened
Promethius
05-11-03, 20:22
Originally posted by Furion
***QUOTE FROM PROMETHEUS!!!! DONT READ!!!11!oneone***
watch the 3rd, hehe, u will be enlightened
lol yeah i forgot the 3rd one came out today. Might go and see it tonight....maybe.
Promethius
05-11-03, 20:32
Originally posted by dr.fish
i seen it it pawnz
Was it as good as expected? Even better? or a Matrix: Crash and burn
I am just back from it now. The movie is ok, there are too many loose ends in it and the ending was a bit sucky.
I should point out that if you have never seen the first two movies (like my girlfriend -_- ) you will have absolutly no clue what the hell is going on.
Some bits (SPOILERS Hightlight to read)
1. I can't stress enough about seeing the other two movies... endless "Who is he? Is he the bad guy? What about him?? Why the hell are there so many of him?
2. The subway made no sense. Why was he there? Why is the train driver got the ability to create that world? Where AIs defecting from the machine world?
If you remember from the first movie the Oracle helping a load of kids who were special, second movie some were released from the Matrix. I would take a guess and say the Oracle is helping AIs escape the matrix via human hosts. Which is why she did not want the destruction of Zion. It could be that the Oracle knows even more then she is letting on.
3. Neos ability to see when blind and move so easily between worlds, I am still convinced that the real world that neo is in doesn't actually exist. It would tie in with all the other incantations of Neo beforehand and Zion being rebuilt (as the architect said). The whole system was built to give the humans the fake sense of choice. This is just another layer to that.
/end spoilers
Oh yea funny comment from the GF...
When Trinity is speared by the building and said she is dying... after about 5 minutes of the crap speech my GF says "Why isn't she dead yet? Die already you boring cow".
...
Promethius
05-11-03, 23:34
Originally posted by Archeus
I am just back from it now. The movie is ok, there are too many loose ends in it and the ending was a bit sucky.
I should point out that if you have never seen the first two movies (like my girlfriend -_- ) you will have absolutly no clue what the hell is going on.
Some bits (SPOILERS Hightlight to read)
1. I can't stress enough about seeing the other two movies... endless "Who is he? Is he the bad guy? What about him?? Why the hell are there so many of him?
2. The subway made no sense. Why was he there? Why is the train driver got the ability to create that world? Where AIs defecting from the machine world?
If you remember from the first movie the Oracle helping a load of kids who were special, second movie some were released from the Matrix. I would take a guess and say the Oracle is helping AIs escape the matrix via human hosts. Which is why she did not want the destruction of Zion. It could be that the Oracle knows even more then she is letting on.
3. Neos ability to see when blind and move so easily between worlds, I am still convinced that the real world that neo is in doesn't actually exist. It would tie in with all the other incantations of Neo beforehand and Zion being rebuilt (as the architect said). The whole system was built to give the humans the fake sense of choice. This is just another layer to that.
/end spoilers
Oh yea funny comment from the GF...
When Trinity is speared by the building and said she is dying... after about 5 minutes of the crap speech my GF says "Why isn't she dead yet? Die already you boring cow".
...
disappointing. I hate ti when the ending sux and leaves alot of loose ends.
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 00:53
Originally posted by Rieper
OMG j00 DONT UNDERSTAND! You have to take philosophy 101 in order to understand this ACTION MOVIE ABOUT GUN FIGHTS AND NIJNA SHIT, its not just needless exposition from two comic book geeks who have been given ten billyan dollaes to create their wet dream
rofl
I'm gonna go see matrix 3. For all who have seen it, tell me, how are the fight scenes?
Zion battle is probably the best, although some of it is really cheezy (PHEAR THE WHEELBARROW!)
Other then that, no bullet time or 360 camera pans. Final fight sucked.
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 01:10
Damn. :(
Lucid Dream
06-11-03, 01:14
i loved revolutions, but it left alot of things unexplained in the end.
Excellent movie, well worth sitting through 2 for.
Final fight was dragonballz, ok if youre into that.
Zion scenes were deffinate high point, had a couple star wars flashbacks at points in the movies (the "OMG this is cool" part of star wars, not the "shoot the damn CG wanker already" part)
if you liked 1, i would recoment 3, even if you didnt like 2 too much.
Promethius
06-11-03, 01:37
Originally posted by Archeus
Zion battle is probably the best, although some of it is really cheezy (PHEAR THE WHEELBARROW!)
Other then that, no bullet time or 360 camera pans. Final fight sucked.
:confused: :confused: :mad: :mad: :( :( :( :( :(
Those were the 2 things i looked forward to the most =\
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I'm gonna go see matrix 3. For all who have seen it, tell me, how are the fight scenes?
bad, really bad ... but who cares ... the plot's a joke anyway
and i thought reloaded was pretty bad
revolution's even worse 8|
/me slaps ppl who say matrix is shit,
IT MINT OK
justnot everyones cup of tea, and 3 rocked so much arse, you ppl just dont get it :o :o i sat for 3 days workin out what most of what was sed was in 2 then saw it again and it was HELLA cool even tho it rfucking ownd first time round and i seen 3 ad it is teh MINTNESS......
~T
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 02:12
Please stop with the "you people just don't get it" BS.
Just because someone didn't like it, doesn't mean they didn't get it. The only way you can know someone didn't "get it" is asking them to explain it. But you didn't do that.
I totally loved Unbreakable. I felt some people didn't "get it" either. But there were people who got it, just didn't like it.
1 > 2 > 3 :(
damn, i wish they had never continued part 1. if you dont mind logic wrapped up and slapped on your nose as if you were a naughty puppy, go see 2 and 3. there is illogical, and then there is ILLOGICAL if you get what i mean.
i was like "uh oh" the first time back in part 2 when seraph showed up as a golden glittering figure in neos code-o-vision. i was like "ohh no..." at the beginning of part 3 when the child was talking about "a place between the two worlds". and i was like "DAMN YOU WACHOWSKI FUCKERS, DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!" when neo was blind and seeing smith and the machines in fire-o-vision... or when he was playing god and stopping machines by the "force of his mind".
holy crap, 2 and 3 turned the cool matrix universe into a semi-esotheric, pseudo-intelligent POS. both movies felt like they were saying "hmmm we should continue matrix... what was that again? bullet-time, philosophic babble, lots of action and a little romance. lets do that!" back when they wrote the story. they claimed that they wrote the entire story from 1 to 3 in one piece. you know what the escimo said to the air conditioning salesman, right? "IM NOT BUYING IT!"
first movie: "ONOZ! a squiddy is hunting us! say your prayers, as all we have is that rotten EMP that doesnt just fry them but also us! ... whew! hes gone!"
third movie: "hmmm 250000 squiddys are coming for our asses. lets pull out the MGs and bazookas. EMP? puh-leeze, that only weapon story is something we tell them captains to shut them up!"
i love matrix 1. and i will try very hard to forget that the other 2 exist.
Dribble Joy
06-11-03, 03:56
Originally posted by Archeus
Other then that, no bullet time or 360 camera pans. Final fight sucked.
There was some bullet-time, just without any bullets. The 360 spins wouldn't fit really, they were a new trick that was used in the first film, and again wouldn't fit here either. The end fight had too much expectation pinned on it, and it wasn't that bad, and again, it wasn't really about the fight, it was about what the fight was about, if you know what I mean :p
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 04:22
Oh jesus.
You people need to learn to enjoy films for what they are not for what you want them to be.
Ending;
It didn't end.
It just began.
Neo;
Means New, remember...
Heh, a lot of people are going to hate M2 and M3 because of this one simple reason;
The Matrix is Live Action Anime.
I absolutely loved it, and one of the people on the M2 DVD said it best.
"The films have so many levels, and work in so many ways, you can have someone watch the movie and walk away with one level, and have enjoyed it, you can have someone watch the movie and walk away with 50 levels and enjoyed it, and you can have someone who enjoyed 100000 levels and enjoyed it."
There were so many things in that film trilogy that I could smell, it will always be what I love because it is the first step to what I want to see the movie industry do.
.........It is what it is Neo as much as Tazo made him out to be "playing God" was so very mortal, he was wounded, he was lost, he didn't have all the answers, and he could not kill all of those things.
Nor, could he beat Smith, for obvious reasons that the Oracle made out.
The battles of Zion were easily something you can see in FreeSpace1, and FreeSpace2, always those battles are told elegently.
The battle between Neo and Smith... Freeza and Goku (And I LOVED that fight...).
The final ending, a fusion between Cowboy Bebop's ending, and DBGTs ending.
If this film was not anime...
I don't know what is.
Its one thing to simply understand a plot and know what is going on. But the Matrix isnt so much about the plot but what the plot tells you about your own existance. What are you here for? What is your purpose? You know you are going to die some day. Everyone does. WHat keeps you going every day? Choice. Why do you think neo kept fighting? He fucking says it plain and simple for all you speds with *0* intellect.
CHOICE
The people who dont like Matrix dont have the intellect to realize the movie isnt about a plot or fighintg scenes...but about the human situtation in their world. Its about the human experience and our endless search for purpose and meaning in life. What our existance really means.
The rest is just filler. To entertain the masses. And to make money. Take it for face value if you want. But until you take the time to dig a little and use your brain, your going to push it away and say you dont like it (or its stupid). Which just shows you dont want to think, as its out of your comprehension.
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 05:46
Originally posted by StrongSad
Its one thing to simply understand a plot and know what is going on. But the Matrix isnt so much about the plot but what the plot tells you about your own existance. What are you here for? What is your purpose? You know you are going to die some day. Everyone does. WHat keeps you going every day? Choice. Why do you think neo kept fighting? He fucking says it plain and simple for all you speds with *0* intellect.
CHOICE
The people who dont like Matrix dont have the intellect to realize the movie isnt about a plot or fighintg scenes...but about the human situtation in their world. Its about the human experience and our endless search for purpose and meaning in life. What our existance really means.
The rest is just filler. To entertain the masses. And to make money. Take it for face value if you want. But until you take the time to dig a little and use your brain, your going to push it away and say you dont like it (or its stupid). Which just shows you dont want to think, as its out of your comprehension.
Oh jesus christ. I feel like i'm at a dork convention. Do you really think it's that hard to understand? You people seriously need to stop with the 'LOLOLO MY INTELLIGENCE IS TEH UBAR LEET THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD POSISBLIY NOT LIEK IT FOR IT'S LEET DEEPNESS'. Have you ever stopped to think that their are people out there who have already been thinking this "deep" shit? And the movie is just normal to them. You remind me of those college kiddies taking one course of psychology then suddenly acting like everyone is ignorant and knows nothing. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
The Matrix is Live Action Anime.
Let me just correct you on that one.
The Matrix is Live Action Pig Shit.
As previously said, I saw about 99999 of those levels, and they all sucked beyond belief. Nice try to be original, but the superficial part of it kills it to the bone.
Die Matrix.
Fights are ok for themselves as standalone, but that's not enough, so I'll just say they're shit too, and whoever made them was a dipshit to waste their talent on that stupid excuse for a plot.
lol u either like it or u don't ... why do some of you feel so badly that ppl should all feel the same you do..
Chill..Pill
As is stated before.....
"To each his own" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I also love how constructive people are. "OMG, that sucked. Everyone who made it was a moron." I know. Lets just sit around and trash EVERYTHING.
You people ^ are probably fans of Maddox... *cough*
Way to reiterate something I've already said. Would you like a medal for extreme observence?
:lol: :lol:
I wont even touch that. Its too funny. :D :D
:lol:
Matrix isn't even funny. It's sad.
-=Blasehase=-
06-11-03, 07:23
the story doesnt matter if the fights r good
and they where... so what?
I'm more of a "The glass is fully empty and there's no fullness in sight" kind of a guy.
Oh and, this is a great banner. (off a different forum)
http://www.themanwhofellasleep.com/x/resolutions.jpg
Hating the Matrix series is as trendy as loving it was a while ago. Most of you are just sheepish fanboys shooting around opinions that have little or no basis on fact. Just because you didn't like the movie doesn't mean it 'sucks', and just because you liked the movie doesn't mean it 'rocks'. It means you have an opinion, good for you, so do the rest of us.
I enjoyed the movie about as much as I expected I would. It was entertaining.
...which is exactly why we're all posting our opinions.
Is it me, or do you deserve the "Master of the obvious" reward?
By the way, there's not a trend going around - you see in the past we only had the finished product that was named Matrix, and we all liked it because it brought some new things into the cinematic experience. Then the sequels were released. Then the whole "I like Matrix" turned into "Matrix sucks". There's no trend. Just the obviousness of the truth.
BlackPrince
06-11-03, 07:46
It was entertaining, more than I can say for most movies I've seen of late.
To both sides, sit down and have a nice cup of STFU. It was old before you even started it up. Opinions are great and all, but constantly hammering away with this dogshit you try to pass off as a reasonable debate is more annoying than The Sims: The Movie!
Heh, my favorite movie review quotes I read....
"The brothers couldn't save this film even if they trucked in a load of Jawas"
and...
"Do not try to understand the plot, only know this, there is no plot".
One word can describe the movie... AMAZING
The beginning may be a bit boring at times but it starts go pick up quick and then it just doesn't stop. The scene of the guys with guns at the club is sweet, the sentinels infiltrating Zion was insane, and the fight between Smith and Neo just took my breath away...it was truly spectacular and some of the best special effects I have ever seen (the fight reminded me of Dragon Ball Z ).
Go see it now and do yourself a favor.
I thought it was quite entertaining. To those who think there is no storyline, think of the game you are playing right now... there are still things that merit it (the game and the movie). Whilst I thought the storyline was fairly fucking clear and interesting, some people seem to either have missed it, or disreguarded it. Whether you like it or not, there are still many scenes that Im sure you were into it...it would be unhuman not to have been
Well I've just gotten back from seeing it on an IMAX and f'k me it was spectacular. Lots of pretty effects and fights for those who like that part of it.
As for a shallow unrevealing ending? There is a very deep and actually quite subversive truth to the ending that is so well hidden you have to really think about it to notice.
A hint is how Neo can see where he's going. (Not saying more as, no doubt, people are still wanting to see this) It isn't obvious but if you look beneith the surface of the plot and do a little reasoning you'll find it.
After reading through other posts people said a lot of loose ends were left hanging. There _is_ an explanation that clears up (most) of them but to get it you have to understand the ending. They kind of make each other apparent.
Originally posted by Jaenus
After reading through other posts people said a lot of loose ends were left hanging. There _is_ an explanation that clears up (most) of them but to get it you have to understand the ending. They kind of make each other apparent.
this is what gets me about the Matrix fanbois. You say the movie sucks and thier comeback is "You are too stupid to understand it".
I seen all the movies, Animatrix, the game and the actual written fiction about the movie (which was around before Matrix 1). I still think the last movie wasn't that great.
Originally posted by Archeus
this is what gets me about the Matrix fanbois. You say the movie sucks and thier comeback is "You are too stupid to understand it".
That wasn't actually my intension. Give me until tomorrow morning (its 12:40am here and I have work tomorrow) and I'll write up a nice explanation as to the ending to post in gray letters. That is if you want it.
There were parts of the film that were a little cheesy and jokes were in the wrong places. Some of the script sucked badly and parts were in a significantly different style to the first two.
On the whole I liked it. If that makes me a "fanboi" then so be it. There is a lot more to the matrix trilogy than action, one liners and sly references to religion; spotting those parts and figuring out the ending was _why_ I liked it. Go figure.
Originally posted by Jaenus
That wasn't actually my intension. Give me until tomorrow morning (its 12:40am here and I have work tomorrow) and I'll write up a nice explanation as to the ending to post in gray letters. That is if you want it.
Sorry it wasn't directly pointing at you.. it is just in general most replies are "OMG U JUST DONT UNDERSTAND!"
If the written fiction is anything to go by then I say the real world is what I say it is earlier, also it leaves the storyline open for loads of non-neo stories.
I've yet to see a justification for the farce of part 2 that wasn't presented in the style of a tarot-card-reading, crystal-stroking, om-chanting, tin-foil-hat wearing, UFO spotting half-wit.
I loved it :)
Jaenus said "After reading through other posts people said a lot of loose ends were left hanging." so he wasnt trying to change peoples opinions, he said he was going to explain how the loose ends werent really loose, read his post before twisting his words o_O
Anyway the story was wrapped but left the possiblity of sequals and explains why the MMORPG could be set after Revolutions.
Is it just me or Neo reminds me of someone....
someone old...
could it be:
JESUS?
ffs
Promethius
06-11-03, 21:05
Originally posted by Tazo
at the beginning of part 3 when the child was talking
I satred reading this then saw this. Glad i didn't read a word after....plz give a warning of a sort if your gunna mention part of the movie. Now Ima see the movie and be like I KNEW IT a child int eh beginning aww its ruined =P
Best line of the movie (during final smith fight):
"Because I have the choice to."
(may not be exact but its a long those lines)
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 21:21
Originally posted by kira wolf
Is it just me or Neo reminds me of someone....
someone old...
could it be:
JESUS?
ffs That is more or less what he's meant to be...
...what's wrong with that?
Somethin I actually liked, even though I saw it coming all the way back in 1... ("Are you telling me I can dodge bullets?" "No Neo, When you're ready, you wont have to.")
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 21:23
I want to see it just for Smith. I love smith.
Originally posted by kira wolf
Is it just me or Neo reminds me of someone....
someone old...
could it be:
JESUS?
ffs
Really? No. Get outta here. o_O
If anyone wants a more indepth look at the Matrix, get Taking the Red Pill. Now, be careful people. its a Book. Try checking Amazon or something, but its worth a read.
Shadow Dancer
06-11-03, 21:26
Flyk, you back on pluto yet? :p
i didn't get that...as soon as it was mentioned that neo has the 'choice'...suddenly smith gets all scared? wtf can someone explain what happened at that point? how does smith foresee his death after mentioning to neo that he has some choice to make...
maybe the choice is for neo to sacrifice himself?..i just didn't fully understand that part.
thats an easy one. You have to remember smith is part of the system. Is a part of the control to control humans. He has also done this before. This is normal. He knows what is going to happen every time.
You have to remember, in reloaded, after the first fight, the two smith's say "it's happening exactly like before", "well, not exactly".
Which would be refering to the whole "been there done that" with the other anomolies before neo. It would also explain that the replicating smith isn't new to the matrix.
Now I haven't seen the 3rd matrix So I could be way off.
I will go see it tonight maybe.
But the reason why smith gets scared, is because when neo states the obvious, that he has choice, that is something smith cannot control, nor can the matrix, which is the inherit mistake of the matrix. Doesn't matter how powerfull smith is, or if smith wins, because you can't control choice. And that scares smith. Human's weapon is choice, and there is no stopping it.
hope that helps.
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:02
Originally posted by tkNukem
i didn't get that...as soon as it was mentioned that neo has the 'choice'...suddenly smith gets all scared? wtf can someone explain what happened at that point? how does smith foresee his death after mentioning to neo that he has some choice to make...
maybe the choice is for neo to sacrifice himself?..i just didn't fully understand that part.
...It wasn't really smith talking... when he got afraid...
It was the Oracle.
As for Neo's "Choice" that was a simple moment of defiance, it wasn't what smith was afraid of, it just pissed him off...
Heh.. Someone said the final fight was DBZ.
Yup, Yup it was, almost text book.
I half expected a Kamehameha when Smith was flying and Neo stopped and focused on Smith :P
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:07
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...It wasn't really smith talking... when he got afraid...
It was the Oracle.
As for Neo's "Choice" that was a simple moment of defiance, it wasn't what smith was afraid of, it just pissed him off...
Heh.. Someone said the final fight was DBZ.
Yup, Yup it was, almost text book.
I half expected a Kamehameha when Smith was flying and Neo stopped and focused on Smith :P
Originally posted by ViperG
thats an easy one. You have to remember smith is part of the system. Is a part of the control to control humans. He has also done this before. This is normal. He knows what is going to happen every time.
You have to remember, in reloaded, after the first fight, the two smith's say "it's happening exactly like before", "well, not exactly".
Which would be refering to the whole "been there done that" with the other anomolies before neo. It would also explain that the replicating smith isn't new to the matrix.
Now I haven't seen the 3rd matrix So I could be way off.
I will go see it tonight maybe.
But the reason why smith gets scared, is because when neo states the obvious, that he has choice, that is something smith cannot control, nor can the matrix, which is the inherit mistake of the matrix. Doesn't matter how powerfull smith is, or if smith wins, because you can't control choice. And that scares smith. Human's weapon is choice, and there is no stopping it.
hope that helps.
Errrrrrrrr
The thing with the smiths was refering to the whole attack on zion and the meeting of the captains, and the role of the one, and the fight with the agents.
"Almost" is because Smith was never quite what he became this time around.
Yes, there was always a counter balance to the program, but it was typically controlled by the system before, this time Smith IS Neo, "he's unplugged, a new man, apparently, free, but appearances can be decieving."
edit;
SHITE I hit Quote without copy/paste + Edit
my bad -_-
...which is exactly why we're all posting our opinions.
Posting your opinion [... Edited for Trolling ...] failure to accept a disserting viewpoint is just a BIT different.
Is it me, or do you deserve the "Master of the obvious" reward?
[Removed for Trolling - Gungnir]
By the way, there's not a trend going around -
[Removed for Flaming - Gungnir]
you see in the past we only had the finished product that was named Matrix, and we all liked it because it brought some new things into the cinematic experience. Then the sequels were released. Then the whole "I like Matrix" turned into "Matrix sucks". There's no trend. Just the obviousness of the truth.
And you want to give me the master of the obvious reward when you are such a lively contender?
Please. If you fail to realize that there are rabid Matrix fanboys that would have praised what the W. brothers put on the screen even if it was gay porn, there is no hope for you. Ever. Crossing the street might be dangerous.
Originally posted by tkNukem
i didn't get that...as soon as it was mentioned that neo has the 'choice'...suddenly smith gets all scared? wtf can someone explain what happened at that point? how does smith foresee his death after mentioning to neo that he has some choice to make...
maybe the choice is for neo to sacrifice himself?..i just didn't fully understand that part.
After Agent Smith (repeatedly) defeated Neo he always came back to life and vice versa. ie Smith couldn't kill Neo and Neo couldn't kill Smith. That all stems from them being the two balancing parts of the equation (conversaion with the Architect in Reloaded). Ying and Yang etc.
Neo let Smith copy himself onto him for one reason only. It linked Smith and himself in a direct way. Thus when, in the machine world, that thing (unsure as to what it was) saw that Neo had failed, it killed him. This also killed Smith inside the Matrix as Neo was still "jacked in". This killed them both at once, resetting the "exponential probability of catastrophic failure".
[Next bit is conjecture, but this is my take on it]
With the two balancing forces of the Matrix gone it reset. In the machine world there was peace between Man and Machine again. In the Matrix the Architect said he was going to free all the people from the Matrix.
If you don't delve any further, thats a happy ending. Still doesn't explain why Neo can see in the Machine World though ;)
In the Matrix the Architect said he was going to free all the people from the Matrix.
No he didn't. The fact you can't follow a simple line of dialogue somewhat debunks the rest of your interpretation.
Originally posted by Samhain
No he didn't. The fact you can't follow a simple line of dialogue somewhat debunks the rest of your interpretation.
Feel free to correct me, I know I'm not infallible. Dunno about you though...
The oracle asked what of the ones who wish to be free, and the architect said they would be freed.
ie. the small percentage of the people who reject the matrix will be freed. those who accept it will stay. this raises all sorts of unanswered questions about the 'peace' agreement between the humans and machines, since the goal of the humans was painted to be the freedom of all mankind, not just a select few.
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:22
They're right.
Some people would obviously choose the utopian matrix, other people would prefer reality.
Given the choice of living however you wanted so long as your body was a battery, what would you choose?
Many people will give different answers.
I myself don't know what I would choose.
that's another part that's iffy. when the oracle asked about the architect keeping the promise to let the humans go (at least those who wanted to)..the col. sanders replied with something like 'i can keep my word better than humans' or some shit. actually i forget what he said lol, but i remember it was ambiguous...the architect was too unclear. explain that now :)
Given the choice of living however you wanted so long as your body was a battery, what would you choose?
I believe it can be implied that the initial reason for rebelling against the matrix is the fact that it is a controlled environment. It is certainly not utopian - as smiths speech in the first film explains - and moreover, fate being the theme that it is, I believe it's fair to assume that most 'lives' in the matrix are predetermined (such is why the oracle can actaully 'predict' the future) - when you die is scripted. if you're going to get constipated, is scripted, etc. etc.
'i can keep my word better than humans' or some shit. actually i forget what he said lol, but i remember it was ambiguous...the architect was too unclear. explain that now
Something along the lines of,
She said "I have your word?"
Him: "Of course, what do you think I am, human?"
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:31
If it were all scripted there would be no need for agents (shh tenchi fans).
What I meant, was that, now that they are at peace and the machines will be forced to confront the people within the matrix about the problem, the people in the matrix who choose to stay within the matrix will be able to control their world.
They could make it whatever they wanted it to be.
They could all be "Neo" to a degree, they could all have super powers.
They could do whatever they want they could live like kings because the machines would want to keep them happy in order to stay in the power house.
This is what I was refering to as utopian, because, of course, it can truly be utopian for some people and if others want different worlds the matrix can easily be segmented to accomodate this.
I was not clear enough but do you see my point now?
***SPOILER!!!!****
OK. Just saw it. This is my take.
The getting taken over for Neo was his way of getting inside the code of Smith (sort of like he did at the end of number one). Once the machines knew he was absorbed it used him as an equivalent of a trojan to pump viruses into the Smith program and destroy him from the inside out. With control over the matrix restored the architect rebuilt it as it was before. That's it really.
As for seeing the code in the real world, my view is that as the one Neo's brain is ultra sensitive to the signals from his port. When he stopped the sentinels for the first time it overloaded his brain and he passed out. Refusing to die, his brain latched onto the radio signal of the matrix and "jacked him in" without an actual plug.
The train station that he is at is the equivalent of a firewall, either allowing access to the matrix or denying it (booting the user). Trinity made her way into the firewall and got Neo access to the Matrix (by using the train, remember everything is just a visual symbol for what the code does).
He then, on return to the real world, can feel the electromagnetic fields produced by all circutry running code, and as the machines all communicate on a basis similar to that of the matrix, he can bring them down by generating his own small signal, hacking them and shutting them down (premature detonation, or just shutting them down).
I think this covers everything that I questioned at first.
Mingoo
P.S. The architect said he wouldn't lie because he isn't human, but yet, machines can love, because it is just a word associated with a motivation. Therefore, surely they can backstab.
P.P.S. I love the bit with the sky, really built around the idea of the Earth still being repairable.
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:35
Ming - the architect is "perfect" all things he does is dictated by logic, since he was forced into peace by others (he's just god of the matrix doesn't mean he's the big boss man) he can backstab sure but he must surely realise that this is a good chance for him to maintain control over a great deal of people who wont want to be freed.
Yes, he could go back on his word, but I believe logic is somewhat related to honour in terms of the machines.
If it were all scripted there would be no need for agents
The purpose of an agent is to combat non-plugged-in users. Agents were never depicted policing plugged inhabitants.
The scripting I am talking about is when you, as someone jacked in to the matrix (hardwired, not at broadcast depth) is the matrix has already decided when you will die, etc. etc.
This is further reinforced that the agents are only needed because of external people hacking in and averting the constructs of the matrix when smith tells morpheus that if zion is destroyed "there is no need for me to be here, you understand?"
They could make it whatever they wanted it to be.
They could all be "Neo" to a degree, they could all have super powers.
They could do whatever they want they could live like kings because the machines would want to keep them happy in order to stay in the power house.
No they can't. The human mind defines reality by suffering. This is a preliminary foundation of the matrix itself. Come on, think before you post.
So you are saying that the people in the Matrix, including those who don't know of its existance, will be kept there. But those who know about it and don't want to be in it, will be allowed to be free from it.
How can there be a peace between Man and Machine in the Machine world if they continue to use people for energy while holding them in the Matrix? Thats your point I think.
Consider this angle. How can Neo see with such messed up eyes? The whole energy thing and the ability to stop sentinels and bombs with his mind? Either he is the messiah born into the Matrix OR he is still in part of the Matrix.
The way I understood it people from, what they thought was, the Matrix would be released to join the survivors from Zion. They would have a fragile peace with the machines, although unknown to them they were still in the Matrix. This breaks the cycle of resetting the Matrix each time after Zion was destroyed but still gives every person inside the "real" matrix a sense of completeness, essentially stabalising it.
From the way I look at it nothing overall changed except the perceptions of the people inside the matrix. They are all now happy that they are free from the Matrix but in reality they went no-where.
No doubt there was a better way of explaining that, but my lunch break is coming to an end. *looks busy*
I get what you are saying, and that's what I feel will happen -but what I am saying, is that contradicts what the initial goal of the resistance was. They wanted to free all of mankind. Now they are content with just having the few that reject the matrix? That sounds darwinistic/elitist to me.
As for seeing the code in the real world, my view is that as the one Neo's brain is ultra sensitive to the signals from his port. When he stopped the sentinels for the first time it overloaded his brain and he passed out. Refusing to die, his brain latched onto the radio signal of the matrix and "jacked him in" without an actual plug.
Interesting, but it still fails to explain how he developed this. I guess the machines growing process could have synthesized some superhuman strengths in him...
The train station that he is at is the equivalent of a firewall, either allowing access to the matrix or denying it (booting the user). Trinity made her way into the firewall and got Neo access to the Matrix (by using the train, remember everything is just a visual symbol for what the code does).
the train station was limbo. Mobil Ave. Mobil is an anagram for Limbo. I don't think it functioned the same as a firewall since what they were conducting (no pun intended) with the train was 'illegal' in the matrix.
He then, on return to the real world, can feel the electromagnetic fields produced by all circutry running code, and as the machines all communicate on a basis similar to that of the matrix, he can bring them down by generating his own small signal, hacking them and shutting them down (premature detonation, or just shutting them down).
While this serves as an example, I think it's a weak one.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Ming - the architect is "perfect" all things he does is dictated by logic, since he was forced into peace by others (he's just god of the matrix doesn't mean he's the big boss man) he can backstab sure but he must surely realise that this is a good chance for him to maintain control over a great deal of people who wont want to be freed.
Yes, he could go back on his word, but I believe logic is somewhat related to honour in terms of the machines.
That is true, although I partly assumed the great machine that Neo is conversing with at the end to be the architect.
And on the note of machines using humans, this crossed my mind also. I ended up feeling that if peace were to be preserved either humans would assist machines in building a world for them to inhabit without using human resources (i.e. clearing the sky) or the machines would use Pod-Grown for energy and the humans be satisfied with being born naturally. This after all would mean it would not be long before the machines have the Matrix secure, because no human outside the matrix would have plugs anymore.
It was the humans who started the war after all, the machines wanted to work together originally.
Mingoo
[edit]Just read your post Sam, I believe that anyone is capable of what Neo has done, only they don't believe in themselves enough/love enough.
The firewall idea is that it ignores those who jack in with an operator, it is just those who jump the signal (like Neo did assuming he was connected through the electromagnetic fields stimulating his neural plug). Although it can be considered Limbo on a religious level, on a technological level it is just a firewall in my opinion, and the smuggling is the firewall program receiving personal benefit from causing the firewall to ignore certain rogue users.
QuantumDelta
06-11-03, 23:49
Sam have you seen animatrix?
Watch the one with the olympic sports runner, you'll see what I mean.
Originally posted by Jaenus
So you are saying that the people in the Matrix, including those who don't know of its existance, will be kept there. But those who know about it and don't want to be in it, will be allowed to be free from it.
EVERYONE will be made aware of it as far as the tone I could see, EVERYONE will be given the CONCIOUS Choice whether to remain there or not, most people will not want to remain however, some will.
It is a very personal question, and again I ask, would you want to stay, or would you want to leave? if this giant machine voice in the sky suddenly came and told you all of this?
And showed you what you could have as a life here and what you could have as a life there.
How can there be a peace between Man and Machine in the Machine world if they continue to use people for energy while holding them in the Matrix? Thats your point I think.
It is, which is why the Architect must confront everyone.
Consider this angle. How can Neo see with such messed up eyes? The whole energy thing and the ability to stop sentinels and bombs with his mind? Either he is the messiah born into the Matrix OR he is still in part of the Matrix.
This is what people laughed at, when they said about the train station earlier on in the thread.
The train station is where Neo ended up when he went into that coma, the talk he had with the oracle also sheds a little light on this.
Neo was meant to have died, tell me anyone who knows what happens when we die, so the Brothers who made matrix have free run of what happens to neo they can do what they like with his "conciousness" ;)
The way I understood it people from, what they thought was, the Matrix would be released to join the survivors from Zion. They would have a fragile peace with the machines, although unknown to them they were still in the Matrix. This breaks the cycle of resetting the Matrix each time after Zion was destroyed but still gives every person inside the "real" matrix a sense of completeness, essentially stabalising it.
Heh, oddly enough this is EXACTLY what I said would be a workable plot for the third movie at the end of the second movie to my mates, and they agreed..
BUT the brothers denied it, the real world is the real world... is what they said, they said there is no matrix within a matrix, and I admit it was too simple and easy to see.
As for Neo's visions... Dragon Ball Z has that answer.
In DBZ one Hero can sense the "Power" of another Hero, it is used to locate.
In a DBGT Episode Goku actually gets blinded, and he can continue to fight his opponent because of the evil energy that pours out of the enemy, he can "feel" the chi of his enemy.
This is obvious because Neo sees SMITH not the person who Smith is inhabiting.
It's VERY VERY Anime, and Pretty deep.
From the way I look at it nothing overall changed except the perceptions of the people inside the matrix. They are all now happy that they are free from the Matrix but in reality they went no-where.
What you say is possible, however the brothers said they did not do it this way, that Zion Is Real.
I believe that too, now, having seen the third film.
No doubt there was a better way of explaining that, but my lunch break is coming to an end. *looks busy*
hehehe... see what you make of this :)
It's my oppinion you obviously don't have to believe it, if you don't want to, but it's a workable story, just like yours :)
All in all, it was a satisfactory ending that neither supported the more obvious ideas (Matrix within a Matrix, humans win, machines win, or anything like that) nor posed HUGELY problematic questions, but small ones that we can answer for ourselves and be content with not having a 'final word'.
Definitely a redemption for the trilogy after the CGI mistakes from two (although that one hit from Neo to Smith that uses CGI almost crippled it entirely).
Mingoo
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 00:00
uhhhh......Ming peace was the only way it would have ended...
There was no way the humans could "win" because the matrix was not the end of the machines..while it WAS the end of the humans...
Even if ALL the squiddies had died, the humans would not have won if you see the forces that the Logos had to get past...
Peace is the only way it woulda worked :p
True, but still, damn good movie, the more I look back at 3 the more I think, aaaah 2 wasn't that bad.
The Matrix Online will put a nice cap onto the matrix world, possibly telling us why there are people still fighting agents inside the matrix after peacetime (or so the official info said)
Mingoo
[edit]Also, Navras, the Smith V Neo track, is one of the most awe inspiring pieces of music of our time IMO, surpassing even the LOTR score. :D
It is a very personal question, and again I ask, would you want to stay, or would you want to leave? if this giant machine voice in the sky suddenly came and told you all of this?
And showed you what you could have as a life here and what you could have as a life there.
I'd probably choose to be unhooked. I'm a "controlling my own fate" kind of guy.
BUT the brothers denied it, the real world is the real world... is what they said, they said there is no matrix within a matrix, and I admit it was too simple and easy to see.
Didn't know they had said that. Puts a dampener on the whole philisophical angle and turns it squarely towards religious undercurrents. I guess I was hoping it wouldn't do that, mainly because my flatmate is a devout Christian and often tells me of how the W Brothers religion is a bit "messed up".
I stay completely out of those coversations.
The explanation you presented fits better with what the W Bro's said they were making, not as nice an ending though imo. But then I do enjoy cyberpunk / post apocalyptic atmospheres more than happy go lucky fantasy ;)
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
As for Neo's visions... Dragon Ball Z has that answer.
In DBZ one Hero can sense the "Power" of another Hero, it is used to locate.
In a DBGT Episode Goku actually gets blinded, and he can continue to fight his opponent because of the evil energy that pours out of the enemy, he can "feel" the chi of his enemy.
This is obvious because Neo sees SMITH not the person who Smith is inhabiting.
It's VERY VERY Anime, and Pretty deep.
Heh, that's pretty interesting, I didn't think of that! So many DBZ references. :D
I thought it was pretty cool at how the end the way Neo dies and the position he's in like the way Jesus was on the cross, because obviously this is all biblical. :p
I don't think there will be any more Matrix's. Keanu Reeves said he wouldn't do anymore. They possibly could do a spin-off with other characters or with Morpheus or something but I doubt it. I'm intrigues to see the Matrix MMORPG however now..
I thought it was pretty cool at how the end the way Neo dies and the position he's in like the way Jesus was on the cross, because obviously this is all biblical.
I thought they ran out of ways to use imagery and had to resort to blatant and obvious references. Near the end, they're practically saying "Jesus is way cool"
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 01:00
Thanks for quoting that big spoiler.
Jesus christ.
Originally posted by Samhain
"Jesus is way cool"
He's like six leprechauns! Only harder to catch.
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 01:12
Evangelion was also full of biblical references.
That ADDED To Evangelion.
It did not detract from it...
Why oh why does it detract from Matrix in everyone elses eyes?
It doesn't in mine.
It'd be very easy to see the survivors in Zion Idolising and turning Neo into a religious figure - IT HAPPENS IN THE SECOND MOVIE FFS.
Yeesh....
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Evangelion was also full of biblical references.
That ADDED To Evangelion.
It did not detract from it...
Why oh why does it detract from Matrix in everyone elses eyes?
It doesn't in mine.
Maybe because most of them are actually more a matter of Catholic doctrine than anything else and that most of the civilised world is well aware that the Catholics make Pol Pot look like Mother Theresa.
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 01:35
Originally posted by jernau
Maybe because most of them are actually more a matter of Catholic doctrine than anything else and that most of the civilised world is well aware that the Catholics make Pol Pot look like Mother Theresa.
:lol:
*sees visions of fire*
:p
Why oh why does it detract from Matrix in everyone elses eyes?
It doesn't in mine.
Glad to hear it, but try having a conversation about it with someone so utterly set against believing in it that they constantly feel the need to put it down. Most conversations about religion I have with my flatmate end up in me ignoring him for an hour or so because of his unwillingness to even glimpse at the beliefs of another religion from an angle other than his own. Its not like I expect him to change his beliefs, just to stop putting down other peoples.
His narrow mindedness gets to me sometimes :rolleyes:
Thanks for quoting that big spoiler.
Jesus christ.
Well the thread title does have SPOILERS in it :p
Shadow Dancer
07-11-03, 02:02
Originally posted by Jaenus
Well the thread title does have SPOILERS in it :p
gah, I didn't even notice that!
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 02:33
That's not narrow mindedness, that's ignorance, and if he is a christian, his ignorance is hypocrisy, because the stuff Jesus taught was an attempt to remove ignorance.
.....I really find it ironic.
Uhhhhhh...............back to topic though :p
Actually, ignorance is something Neo may have tried to bridge with the machines eventually...if he had the chance...
(Mobil Ave) love, from a machine...
Logan Tyrus
07-11-03, 02:33
1) Also guys dont forget the train station is also a nod to the river styx!
2) My friends have been moaning at me about the little girl and how random she is, if u are thinking the same think back to the first film, Neo's just been released from the Matrix and he's in his cabin. Morpheus explains to him that:
"When the matrix was first created there was a man born inside who had the ability to change woteva he wanted", and they were waiting for him to return, they thought it was the "one".
So the girl was obvious, coz Neo CANT change woteva he wants. And the WHOLE of Reloaded prepares you for this as we see that the "One" happens in every instance of the matrix and its just an anomoly, thats all. The truth and the prophecy got muddled.
3) Why cant the "one" have powers outside the matrix? He's a freaking superhero! No one said he couldnt have any powers outside the matrix! THE MAN CAN FLY FFS! :p And i sincerely doubt that anyone could do what Neo does in the Matrix, coz there are more open minded people in the world than Neo! Kids for instance. (Oh yeh, those kids in the oracles house are human not machines, they were possible "one"s.)
4) The matrix doesnt run on fate, everybody does have their own fate. The Oracle however is a BIG F**CKING MACHINE with the mathmatical power of 1000000+ Einsteins, she works on probability.
5)The problem the machines have, they dont understand "choice" because they are programmed for a purpose.
(NB: SOMEWHAT SPOILERS)Just seen the movie for a second time... and i definitely have not enough time to write what i would have wanted to explain how i feel about this film.
To start with... the wachowski's had no intention to make this a simple film, and they definitely succeeded in preventing a simple film. Although it may seem to be mainly fight scenes and no plot line... it is completely different with a massive sub layer of philosphy, religion and meaning to the trilogy.
I'm pretty sure i understand nearly all of it, so please feel free to ask me questions in this forum.
The only things i think i can't answer questions on are:
a) The Ghost Sentinel - This was not explained at all in the film and i cant figure out any explanation whatsoever
b) The Unicron, a.k.a Deus Ex Machina, a.k.a The Big Machine head being the Architect. I definitely dont think they have a relationship but can't back up my claims.
A few of the little features to pick up on
i) Note at the end when Smith and Neo are killed (my opinion, please dont flame i burn easily)... and you see Neo drawing power from the machine mainframe - look carefully and you can see a Flaming Cross on Neo's chest, as well as when he is carried off he is strectched like Jesus on the cross.
ii) Club Hell Fight scene was completely computerised
iii) LISTEN TO WHAT RAMA KUTRA (spelling?) SAYS!!! VERY IMPORTANT!
iv) Oracles words (nearly), "He is your negative" (talking about smith)... Architects words "A balance of the equation", meaning that Neo and Smith need eachother to live... which is why Neo lets smith take over his body at the end... because he realises that as long as he keeps fighting and lives, then so will smith.
+1 (neo) and -1 (smith) = 0
Ive got so much more i can talk about, including lots of meaning of the trilogy and stuff... but cant go into it coz its 00:23 and my heads not working... so im really sorry if this post is hard to read.
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 02:35
Damnit Damnit Damnit
See post on last page.
:o
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 02:36
Damnit Damnit Damnit.
See Above.
Server was very lagged = doubled posted (i think QD did too)
Theres only 2 ways this could have ended.
1) They make peace (obviously thats what happened)
2) machines destroy zion and go back to the way it was before (although that would be pretty impossible as long as Smith still exists)
It still boggles the mind. What was the purpose of the machines? I understand why humans (especially neo) keep going (cuz they have choice) but what drives the machines? A big mystery. Nobody can really explian it though, since no one really knows why we as humans drive ourselves and continue.
I also think the humans should be happy that the achitect is giving then any chance once smith is gone. It would be very easy for him to just say "fux you humans.....go back to the matrix.."
If you watch animatrix (part II) if you remember the part when humans and machines met to make a deal..and the machine ambassadors were all killed. I think that still pisses the machines off.
Adding to what QD said. I LOVE the train station part. The in which the W. borthers quesiton what comes after death is awsome. No one really knows so they can do whatever the hell they want. Its just another way they poke at questions all humans have about their existance.
PS- why didnt the machines just make a Matrix within a Matrix? That would be a supreme form of control. Or maybe even several levels of the matrix. Like 50 or 100....or so many levels, to the point where the humans could never escape. Stupid machines. :rolleyes:
QuantumDelta
07-11-03, 04:43
animatrix reference the explanation of why the war started...the trial of the andriod... to answer those questions...
as for your PS...
It's good for the machines....bad for drama :p
animatrix reference the explanation of why the war started...the trial of the andriod... to answer those questions...
I know....
If you watch animatrix (part II) if you remember the part when humans and machines met to make a deal..and the machine ambassadors were all killed. I think that still pisses the machines off.
It just doesnt explain what their purpose is once they had conquered the humans...
Dribble Joy
07-11-03, 05:11
Originally posted by jernau
Maybe because most of them are actually more a matter of Catholic doctrine than anything else and that most of the civilised world is well aware that the Catholics make Pol Pot look like Mother Theresa.
Cheers for that.
Mother Theresa was a catholic, what does that say?
Anyway.
You say it's live action anime, which to an extent is true, the W bros, have repeatedly stated that they have been influenced by anime and it's forms, and how they have taken things from it into the Martrix.
But think what anime is. A large proportion of anime discusses things and displays things that simply cannot be done with conventional cinema. Could the stories of The Matrix or DBZ or Evangelion or (hehe) FLCL be brought to the live screen, before say 5 years ago, without looking shite and getting the message across? You watch your avarage end-battle in DBZ, they get thrown through walls, buildings drop on them and half the planet gets nuked.
Anime is it's self influenced by things that preceded it, the main one obviously being all those Kung-fu films. Taking the impossible and making it believable.
In some ways The Matrix is anime because contemporary film making has reached a point where we can do anything and go any where, it has taken the methods and skills that have been refined in anime, and been applied to mainsteam cinema.
To say it is anime because of the issues is dealt with... is wrong, and to be honest is somewhat insulting to film makers in other genres. The style is anime, but the messages and discussions within are far from old. Books and stories throughout the ages have struggled to bring these questions to the front, as the convetional methods fall into dis-use, films like these, anime, live action cinema, are bringing them back into peoples mind. People being people of course think that it's all new and wonderfull and exiting, which is good, and bad.. sort of. At least it's getting out there again.
Bah, what do I know?
Originally posted by StrongSad
It just doesnt explain what their purpose is once they had conquered the humans...
To use them as the universe's most horribly inefficient energy source as per the farcical foundations set in part 1?
FYI -
1) Even at 100% efficient heat-electic conversion a human body couldn't produce enough power to even run the funky lights all the pods include in part 1 no matter what you fed it.
2) Any CHO you could feed into a human would be at least a 50x more efficient energy source if you just burnt it even assuming 100% recapture which you would get close to.
3) With the "darkening of the sky" no more energy-profitable CHO bonding would happen so the only food for all the pod-humans would be other pod-humans. Hence no more cyclical bollox.
a few different ideas in the eyes of a geek:
Why didnt the machine make a "backup" of neo before he fought smith-- if you think of how smith copied himself to a "real" person, it would lead anyone to conclude that the machines could have just copied neo as he was, and if he failed, could re-load neo to his dead body.
if neo were to have died any other way than smith copying himself to neo's virtual self, smith would NOT have died. lets think about how this works here:
+1 + -1 == 0
the choices for this eq are:
do it as is
subtract 1 from both sides
add 1 to both sides
(remember pre-algebra?)
if any part of the equation were to change, you would be at:
1 or -1 meaning neo or smith... there was a way for smith to have won and it would have been over. though with the HUGE FUCKING amount of smiths, if neo were to have killed the first smith, he would just have another one step up, so neo obviously has to make the logical decision, let smith neutralize the equation (+1 + -1)
thirdly:
the matrix _technically_ is nothing but a huge physics engine with the ability to interface, and interfere with humans... What is life? a huge physics umm thing -- so if someone were to understand a physics engine that is an EXACT clone of the "real world" why would he not be able to control the real world as well. Think ESP, 6th sense, telekenetics etc, etc. Whether or not there is any truth to any of those particular terms as we know it, in the movie world, apparently there are.
I think there might have been another point or two I wanted to touch on, but I have the memory of a goldfish, so this is all for now
just scrolled up a bit, and saw something about "what was the machines purpose"
The purpose of ANYTHING we know is to survive and pass on the blood line, so since humans programmed the AI in the first place, how could they have passed the knowledge that they dont posess? The purpose of the machines was to ensure their survival, if they were to win, they would have done so, and kept on keepin on.
scrolled up, yet again- smith was worried because he said he had envisioned how everything happened, he saw neo on the ground in that huge crater, and it was over... but it didnt go as he had seen, neo got up, and continued on, until smith tried to copy himself to neo, blah blah blah, etc etc, divine light from neo, blah blah, crusifix blah blah the end
Dribble Joy
07-11-03, 05:24
Smith is Neo's opposite, his -1 to Neo's 1, as said, he is the other side of the equation trying to balance.
So, yes, Neo did have to 'die', but as the oracle said she is the one who brings imbalance, thus it is possible, (as she says at the end) that neo could still be out there (and thusly, so could smith, but then it would be balanced again)
Originally posted by StrongSad
It just doesnt explain what their purpose is once they had conquered the humans...
exactly the same as the purpose for humans to exist in the first place, we don't know. Again this brings in the meaning of life/existance/why are we here, these are questions that cannot in their nature be found, and if they are, raises new question in turn.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Smith is Neo's opposite, his -1 to Neo's 1, as said, he is the other side of the equation trying to balance.
So, yes, Neo did have to 'die', but as the oracle said she is the one who brings imbalance, thus it is possible, (as she says at the end) that neo could still be out there (and thusly, so could smith, but then it would be balanced again)
exactly the same as the purpose for humans to exist in the first place, we don't know. Again this brings in the meaning of life/existance/why are we here, these are questions that cannot in their nature be found, and if they are, raises new question in turn.
no, neo did not have to die, if neo were to have "won," the equation would have come to 1=1, effectively a balanced equation
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Cheers for that.
Mother Theresa was a catholic, what does that say?
It mean she was a good person despite her upbringing and social indoctrination. Dont' tell me you've never seen a CA poke a TG :p .
**cough**
a certain austrian house painter was a jew if you take the strict definition (female bloodline) so origins <> destinations.
**cough**
no, neo did not have to die, if neo were to have "won," the equation would have come to 1=1, effectively a balanced equation
From what I saw (with Neo and Smith repeatedly trying to kill each other to no avail) it would have gone from
(+1) + (-1) = 0
to
(+1) = 0 or (-1) = 0
which isn't balanced. If they both died then it would be 0 = 0 and that would be balanced.
The equation must _always_ be balanced, as a rule of the matrix, and so the only way to defeat Smith was for Neo to die at the same time.
Dribble Joy
07-11-03, 05:37
Originally posted by Divide
no, neo did not have to die, if neo were to have "won," the equation would have come to 1=1, effectively a balanced equation
But with 1=1 then although it's balanced, both are still active and the war continues, untill smith finally conquers the whole matrix and then the machines and destroys the humans. So, in order to end the war, things had to cancelled out rather than balanced.
hmmmm
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
But with 1=1 then although it's balanced, both are still active and the war continues, untill smith finally conquers the whole matrix and then the machines and destroys the humans. So, in order to end the war, things had to cancelled out rather than balanced.
hmmmm
how in the hell can you figure from the initial eq:
+1 + -1 = 0
let +1 = neo
let -1 = smith
when you remove the -1 it is GONE... its not just hanging around somewhere, its fucking gone making it
1=1
I dont see a -1 in there anywhere, so what leads you to believe that smith is still around, and the war continues?
The agreement between the machine and neo was that if smith was defeated, there would be peace... if neo were to have killed the first smith, and then on down the line and killed every fucking smith in the matrix, that would have been the end of it... neo would be alive, and smith would be dead
1=1 is a balanced equation, however not a neutralized equation
Dribble Joy
07-11-03, 05:53
Originally posted by Divide
no, neo did not have to die, if neo were to have "won," the equation would have come to 1=1, effectively a balanced equation
hmmmm?
ugh, I'm tired, it's nearly 4 in the morning.
The think is that, although the machines said that there would be peace if neo destroyed smith, the only way to destroy smith ( in the end) was to die, so he did have to.
1=1 is balanced but 1=1 = not peace, only 0=0 would be peace, Ie. neither of them about.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
hmmmm?
ok:
+1 + -1 = 0
This is what happened, smith added himself to neo, and neutralized the equation, thusly destroying them both.
if smith were to have defeated (killed) neo by other means the eq would then become
0 + -1 = -1
0 because neo no longer existed... this
-1 = -1 eq means that Smith is now unopposed
if neo were to have defeated smith
1 + 0 = 1
0 because smith no longer existed-- now neo is unopposed.
Im not exactly sure why you dont see that, but then again, Im sure you have the exact opposite thought. but then we get into some form of equation or another, and that obviously isnt going well thus far :lol:
just read your edited post above this one
you are right, the numbers smith had were much too staggering for neo to have fought, and he went about fighting him the wrong way (as everyone does when they are fighting an agent) you cant damage the physical aspect of something that doesnt have a body. so trying to beat smith into submission would not have worked, he would have had to put some lead right into smiths skull, and then move on to the next to perform the same greusome execution. thats what I think at least. and actually as I typed this, I realized that if that were true, there would be a lot more "programs" like the keymaker, etc etc that would still be around.. I kinda just confused, myself so Im going to go smoke a cig and return hopefully even headed
Dribble Joy
07-11-03, 06:00
Originally posted by Divide
ok:
+1 + -1 = 0
This is what happened, smith added himself to neo, and neutralized the equation, thusly destroying them both.
if smith were to have defeated (killed) neo by other means the eq would then become
0 + -1 = -1
0 because neo no longer existed... this
-1 = -1 eq means that Smith is now unopposed
if neo were to have defeated smith
1 + 0 = 1
0 because smith no longer existed-- now neo is unopposed.
Im not exactly sure why you dont see that, but then again, Im sure you have the exact opposite thought. but then we get into some form of equation or another, and that obviously isnt going well thus far :lol:
I do see that, but the only way for either of them to defeat the other was to 'loose', so a result of 1 or -1 is impossible.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I do see that, but the only way for either of them to defeat the other was to 'loose', so a result of 1 or -1 is impossible.
err, if someone were to have been defeated, instead of neutralized, then the equation would have been updated respectively
if neo is defeated, he is no more, a 0, neither 1, nor -1, a nothing, so smith would have lived on
oh, and lose is spelled with one o.
I think you are using the equation as a means to portray their battle, the battle had nothing to do with the equation, since the eq is balanced from the beginning. The battle was to modify the eq so that the endless loop of the one finally ended.
Dribble Joy
07-11-03, 06:14
Originally posted by Divide
err, if someone were to have been defeated, instead of neutralized, then the equation would have been updated respectively
if neo is defeated, he is no more, a 0, neither 1, nor -1, a nothing, so smith would have lived on
YES (godammit) if one had defeated the other (at any point in the story) then they would be 1 or -1, but my point is that they COULDN'T, thier very nature as polar opposites and equals denies them this.
Like a good vs bad Bruce Lee, each knows the others moves and thoughts, there cannot be a winner. Each defeats and removes the other. That's the whole point, (at least as I see it, which is probably wrong.)
OMG this thread is turning into that 200 page proof that "1+1=2" is a special case of euclidian geometry I had to deal with at uni. Please stop before I post it and make all your brains hurt for 2 months.
Originally posted by jernau
OMG this thread is turning into that 200 page proof that "1+1=2" is a special case of euclidian geometry I had to deal with at uni. Please stop before I post it and make all your brains hurt for 2 months.
oh please jernau, do so.
dribble:
I see your point, dont get me wrong, I just disagree with the idea. who knows, maybe we are both wrong (more than likely) and jernau is the fucking king of the universe with so much mathematical comprehension that he has cause the entirety of humanity to go into shellshock with his mind-numbing proofs
Originally posted by Divide
oh please jernau, do so.
dribble:
I see your point, dont get me wrong, I just disagree with the idea. who knows, maybe we are both wrong (more than likely) and jernau is the fucking king of the universe with so much mathematical comprehension that he has cause the entirety of humanity to go into shellshock with his mind-numbing proofs
:p
I dropped out that course for a reason. IT is a helluva lot easier.
I tell you what though - at least I could see a point to all the brain-pain they threw at me.
/edit - I just threw a few searches on the parts I remember into google and even the headings made my head hurt again. Please proceed with your amazingly incisive insight, I'll STFU about math now. It's 5AM and I don't need that stuff.
Psychoninja
07-11-03, 07:21
Just saw the movie, here are a few things.
-Trin Dying = GAY
-Smith and Neo fighting while suspended in air = Cheap =\
-Smith taking a slow mo punch in the face made my jaw drop, I loved it.
-I want one of the mechs with the machine guns =)
-Ending was decent
-Machine Vs. Human battle at the dock was great
Overall I liked the movie except for a few things here and there.
:D :D :D
Hardly, the slow mo punch was rediculous, I mean, how fake could they possibly make Neo? It totally ruined the suspense of disbelief every time they used a CGI Neo.
Mingoo
[edit]And yes, Trin shoulda shut the hell up and died. The matrix had some moments where it just seemed so scripted, and that isn't good in a movie.
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Hardly, the slow mo punch was rediculous, I mean, how fake could they possibly make Neo? It totally ruined the suspense of disbelief every time they used a CGI Neo.
Mingoo
I thought that part was pretty wicked. :D
When it hit his face it was wicked, it was just the whole fake Neo thing kills the films for me. I'd much rather see a human Neo.
Mingoo
Logan Tyrus
08-11-03, 02:09
<caps>
O FFS PEOPLE!
SMITH WAS EVIL RIGHT! AND HE WAS -1!
NEO WAS GOOD AND HE WAS +1!
THAT KARMA BTW!
SO IF NEO HAD WON THEN THE WORLD WOULD BE INHERANTLY GOOD! EREGO, CONCORDANDTLY, VIS A VIS, THE FIRST "PERFECT" MATRIX THAT WAS CREATED WHICH DIDNT WORK! HENCE THE FINAL EQUATION OF GOOD + EVIL MUST EQUAL 0!
</caps>
ahem sorry...
Oh and as for the matrix within a matrix idea? That wouldnt be a good idea. The people in the matrix (ie Neo) were searching for Morpheus becuase they felt unhappy in their life coz they knew it wasnt the real world, subconsciously! So if Zion was a matrix as well then they would have the same level of uncertainty and it wouldnt work! And if the hypothetical Zion matrix didnt have that side effect then the first matrix would not be needed and it would all be stupid!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.