View Full Version : do you think class's are balanced?
Cryotchekk
31-10-03, 01:23
meh they are, you just need skills.
Classes are getting close to balance. Tanks and PE's are as close to being Balanced as they've ever been. Spy's, well i'm not a spy so I don't know, but I think they're doing better. APU monks solo with out a PPU on their ass is fine. The only problem IMO is how much a PPU monk effects a fight. They should have some effect, but not as much as they do right now. That's just my oppinion though, and I don't want to turn this thread into another "NERF THE PPU!!!!!!11111111111111oneoneone" thread.
QuantumDelta
31-10-03, 01:57
Beyond moderate tweaks to spies(armor changes), apus (mainly range... very slightly energy damage downward, fire and poison damage upward), ray weapons, and tank aoe.
I think this is more or less balanced.
Ignoring PPUs.
I'm also fond of my new idea about moving shelter to TL 18
o_O
ooo my melee spy would pwn with shelter at tl 18 :D
Ah yes, another "OMG PPUs die easy if you have skills liek me!!!oneoneone"
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Beyond moderate tweaks to spies(armor changes), apus (mainly range... very slightly energy damage downward, fire and poison damage upward), ray weapons, and tank aoe.
I think this is more or less balanced.
Ignoring PPUs.
I'm also fond of my new idea about moving shelter to TL 18
o_O
Qualtum Delta you are right all of these things need tweeking but afterwards it would be perfect. PPU's need a complete system change i think.
SigmaDraconis
31-10-03, 05:19
I agree with QD mostly..even about the shelter....
BUT after playing both sides for several months now... I feel that theres nothing wrong with PPU's being difficult to kill..seeing as most the APU's including myself, that I know can drop them within 3 tries..solo... and from a clan perspective you very rarely ever see one APU alone, and 2 coordinated (ohh evul word that one) APU's can drop all but the most godly of PPU's within a couple tries.
And either do somethign abotu PE's..or boost the tanks offense ability and decrease the fucking runspeed nerf they get form HC weapons, as it is a tank is just a slightly useful human shield and at the same time an inconvenient object in the way of any PE's or APU's trying to damage a target.
Neo LoneWolf
31-10-03, 05:36
The classes are almost balanced, definitely (ignoring PPUs).
PEs are the most balanced class in the game, and need only minor adjustments.
Spies need a few tweaks, and those are mostly issues regarding the game engine itself, rather than anything else (droning bugs & effectiveness; increasing clipping distance when scoped . . . ). Perhaps a good reason for having 20 PSI too . . .
Tanks need some form of melee boost (primarily wrt PvP), some weapon adjustments/additions (flamers/gren-launchers & rare gat cannon), and some H-C imps (a line of brain-chips & H-C eyes).
APUs are fine-ish (I might advocate their spells being limited solely to energy/fire & poison - damaging ones, though - anti-buffs (and the need for them) are just condusive to monkacron).
Neocron's come a long way to achieving some decent balance since I started playing - I just wish there was a simple solution to the issue of PPUs . . .
Tanks are good, but need a few things.
-More rares. There's a ton of possible new rares a Tank can get (rare gatlin cannon, laser cannon, flamer, etc to name a few).
-Slight increase in defense.
-Make capping a cannon's aiming and RoF % easier. Make it possible to eventually fully cap a DB with fully capped Tanks.
-Increase run speed a tad with gun out.
-Make PA take away DEX again instead of CON and lower Tank PA4 to 125 STR.
-Increase damage to AoE weapons and have them produce a short "barrel-like" effect afterwards.
IMO if all these things were introduced (or even some), Tanks will be a great and fun class to play again.
--
PE's are pretty balanced imo. They seem to have everything they need for a PE and can win or lose depending on skill and who you are fighting.
--
Not too sure on Spies, never really played one, but they seem to be doing better now with PA/new rares to play with/stealth etc. I'd make droning somehow effective again though, most Spies are now rifle users.
--
APU's are fine alone. Only reason why they seem tough is like everyone else said they have a PPU shoved up there ass 24/7. Maybe decrease max damage and RoF/distance in spells a bit.
PPU's need nerfage, sorry. They should benefit the side with them and effect wars and PvP to an extent, but right now everyone relies on them a little too much. Removing Parashock from PvP is a good start, and having heals being CON based was a good idea from Kramer, making a Tank/PPU combo just as good or even better then an APU/PPU combo.
If Monks don't get any changes I'd say add an aimer to Monks. Everyother class has to aim to shoot except the Monk and they get the higest RoF also. Keep runcasting.
Just my opinions. ;)
QuantumDelta
31-10-03, 11:09
.......It's really, really illogical to say "PEs are balanced" and then go onto say every class needs boosting except him o_O
*Excludes Monks from that*
Ehheh..
Personally, I think the games as balanced as it gets right now, there are bigger issues for KK to work out ;)
I voted no but only by a small margin.
Tanks need some help, they've been taken out of the equation by the APU/PPU combo, but i think its more a case of lowering the power of monks than raising tanks.
Monks are ok but APU range needs reduction & PPUs parashock spells need a reduction in ROF.
Spies, well you can ask QD and SvS about them :)
PEs, actually quiet a fun class to play, would like them to sort out the Wyatt so its worth using and the libs aiming.
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
[B]I feel that theres nothing wrong with PPU's being difficult to kill..seeing as most the APU's including myself, that I know can drop them within 3 tries..solo... and from a clan perspective you very rarely ever see one APU alone, and 2 coordinated (ohh evul word that one) APU's can drop all but the most godly of PPU's within a couple tries.
rawr sigma I never been droped as a ppu by single apu... I always end up killing em.... And mind you im far from the best ppu...
Only way that would happen is if I run out of boostes... or somehow dont have any anti poison spells in my inv :wtf:
In the end the apu dies from para spam or my trusty sc
Atleast shad always lost our 1v1s :D
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
-..... lower Tank PA4 to 125 STR.
OMG i got to laugh at that 1. with the current STR requirements a tank can wear it with imps alone and no drugs.
QuantumDelta
31-10-03, 14:15
Originally posted by enablerbr
OMG i got to laugh at that 1. with the current STR requirements a tank can wear it with imps alone and no drugs. I've said it time and time again...whine and suggest without thought.
O'd to the masses of Neocron.
OOPs. got my maths wrong. yep you still need 1 drug to put it on but after that you don't need to use drugs.
Droners need a gd shooting force/peircing drone (not juz kami) at the high lvls. Their still just relying on the PN for battles. The "Revenge" Kami doesn't do enough damage in my opinion, considering that they blow up in 1 hit, then u gotta launch a brand new kami.
Tanks, PEs, and APUs seem fine the way they are.
PPUs need to have their "Holy Heal" effectiveness reduced.
The way they heal now is so fast, if i chop off an arm it grows back instantly. Buffs are fine.
PPUs are supposed to enhance the fighting power of ppl on his side, not determine the outcome of the battle at the start. A force atking without a PPU is basically fuked in this game.
-Giz :cool:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
.......It's really, really illogical to say "PEs are balanced" and then go onto say every class needs boosting except him o_O
*Excludes Monks from that*
Ehheh..
How is that illogcial?
PE's are probably the most balanced class out right now. They don't need nerfing and they don't need boosting either. The got plenty a boost with the new PA's so now they can use all the rare pistols/rifles without drugging, they can use stealth, they are fast, good defenses with shelters, etc.
And I didn't give every class a boost, I actually just gave the Tank's list of boosts and said make droning more effective then currently.
Originally posted by enablerbr
OMG i got to laugh at that 1. with the current STR requirements a tank can wear it with imps alone and no drugs.
Wrong.
Yes, you can wear PA4, but you need to drug and gimp yourself, hence why no Tanks wear it. :rolleyes:
With 100 STR and the implant setup of Marine/Herc/MoveOn/Zerk 3 and a HB3, you get 124 STR. You then need to drug to get 130 STR and put the PA4 on.
The reason why this gimps you is you waist a brain slot with a Zerk 3, whereas you can use a PPR which for a capped Tank is much more effective then a Zerk 3. If you take the Zerk 3 out of the equation, you only get 119 STR, which you can still drug to 130 but the PA won't stay on because with the added 8 STR you still only would get 127 STR. It's also annoying to have to take a drug everytime you die or GR, too.
QuantumDelta
01-11-03, 00:27
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
The reason why this gimps you is you waist a brain slot with a Zerk 3, whereas you can use a PPR which for a capped Tank is much more effective then a Zerk 3. If you take the Zerk 3 out of the equation, you only get 119 STR, which you can still drug to 130 but the PA won't stay on because with the added 8 STR you still only would get 127 STR. It's also annoying to have to take a drug everytime you die or GR, too.
Have you even LOOKed at Monk IMPs in regards to PA Reqs? LOL
Or spy, for that matter.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Have you even LOOKed at Monk IMPs in regards to PA Reqs? LOL
Or spy, for that matter.
WTH does that have to do with anything.
I'm talking about Tanks in regard to what enablerbr said. Never did I say Monks or Spies don't have to gimp themselves to wear there highest PA. o_O
QuantumDelta
01-11-03, 00:52
Yet you only suggest Tank PA Req should be dropped.
Great that.
Fact: Of those who have voted on this poll, 39.29% of them, are monks.
*takes cover behind desk*'
EDIT: rofl got yes and no wrong wtf
EDIT2: gonna edit this post a few times
EDIT3:....
EDIT4: yes.
EDIT5: my, isnt that a beatyuy!
EDIT6: ill stop editing step by step and just put lots of edit thignys at once, thats more effiecnetynt.
EDIT7:
EDIT8: hi
EDIT9: :P
EDIT10: rofl
EDIT11: omfg
EDIT12: LOL
EDIT13: boy, im not even funny, well what do you expect after drinking 2 L of soda,....
EDIT14: speaking of 2 L soda.... brb
EDIT15: back
EDIT16: must have been 4 L lol :P
EDIT17: one minute to midnight
EDIT15: hey isnt it halloween? and midnigt? scary..
EDIT16: 00.00 rofl omg ph33r :PRPRPP
EDIT17: no wait.. 00.01
EDIT18: only 13 hours and 36 minutes to 13.37
EDIT19: cant wait, must get a hold of myself
EDIT20: woah 00.02, the time just flues by when youre having fun
EDIT21: 13 hours and 35 minutes to 13.37
EDIT22: 13 hours and 36 minutes to 13.38
EDIT:2+ h mm, i think i just saw a bat fly by my iwndow!!
EDIT23: about bats, i just saw a movie with loads of bats killing people. the best part was when they ate there creat0r
EDIT234: since writing stuff is getting old, ill just copy what i have already written.
EDIT: rofl got yes and no wrong wtf
EDIT2: gonna edit this post a few times
EDIT3:....
EDIT4: yes.
EDIT5: my, isnt that a beatyuy!
EDIT6: ill stop editing step by step and just put lots of edit thignys at once, thats more effiecnetynt.
EDIT7:
EDIT8: hi
EDIT9: :P
EDIT10: rofl
EDIT11: omfg
EDIT12: LOL
EDIT13: boy, im not even funny, well what do you expect after drinking 2 L of soda,....
EDIT14: speaking of 2 L soda.... brb
EDIT15: back
DIT16: must have been 4 L lol :P
EDIT17: one minute to midnight
EDIT15: hey isnt it halloween? and midnigt? scary..
EDIT16: 00.00 rofl omg ph33r :PRPRPP
EDIT17: no wait.. 00.01
EDIT18: only 13 hours and 36 minutes to 13.37
EDIT19: cant wait, must get a hold of myself
EDIT20: woah 00.02, the time just flues by when youre having fun
EDIT21: 13 hours and 35 minutes to 13.37
EDIT22: 13 hours and 36 minutes to 13.38
EDIT:2+ h mm, i think i just saw a bat fly by my iwndow!!
EDIT23: about bats, i just saw a movie with loads of bats killing people. the best part was when they ate there creat0r
EDIT234: since writing stuff is getting old, ill just copy what i have already written.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Yet you only suggest Tank PA Req should be dropped.
Great that.
Gah, it's only by 5. Can't Tanks catch a break here without other classes having the same treatment.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAA! THE MMOG GODS SHALL NOT PERMIT IT! YOU SHALL ALL LIVE ETERNALY IN UNBALANCED HELL!
There will allways be one class weaker than another. It happens in MMOG.
Here's a list of changes I think would be nice:
Rare gat for tanks
Make it easier to cap aim% on a CS (maybe HC imps like a zerk 3 or something or a HC eye since pistols, rifles, and melee have them)
Possibly boost tank runspeed a bit with HC weapon out (not comepletley necessary though)
BOOST AOE
APU's are fine, maybe give them an APU combat eye
Make holy heal less effective (it shouldn't be able to completley
outheal damage, since if you think of it, people shouldn't actually be able to fully heal up again during the middle of a fight)
If I remember correctly, I think I heard that with a libby only like 3/4 shots per burst actually hit no matter what, so I'd say make it so 4/4 shots hit (might be wrong about this)
In all honesty, the PE defenses vs a Tank defenses are fine. You really shouldn't depend on your resists THAT MUCH. Learn how to dodge and eveade (yes, you can do it with a tank too! Believe me!)
EDIT: Like my new avitar?
Shadow Dancer
01-11-03, 01:38
I believe the classes are more or less balanced. Just some tweaks though, here's what I would tweak.......
TANKS
Significantly increase their AOE ability. The "blasts" from each aoe hit should leave a barrel type effect(just like the apu modules) on the ground.
I think they should get a rare flamer as well.
PES
Mostly fine. I don't think they deserve stealth though. If I had the power to change it, i'm not sure whether or not I actually would.
Uhhhhh, I think rifles should need much lower weaponlore to cap the aiming on.
SPIES
BLEH. Make duranit dex based is what I would do. Increase the damage OR rof of their sniper rifles. UHHHH, increase the scope zoom IMO. As a matter of fact, you should be able to scope however much you want. UHHHH what else, I would make their high end rifles realisticly cappable. :rolleyes:
APUS
Tone down energy damage. SIGNIFICANTLY cut range. Take away random damage actually. Yea I would prefer that instead of lowering energy damage.
PPUs
ugh, i'm not even going to get into this.
However there's 2 MAJOR tweaks(I seriously doubt they will happen) that I would do.
1.Make heals CON based. That way a heal on an apu or ppu won't be that great. That would cut down the immense defense of the ppu. Also it would make tanks more useful at op wars. That way they have their place an a unique advantage instead of the apu/ppu team blowing everyone away.
2.I would change Holy Lightning and Fire Apocalypse.(or maybe all spells.........but just follow me for a sec). I would make them equal in power to the highest non rare. Except I would make it so that you can "charge them" up for more power up to a limit. Like I would target lemme see........Eric Draven, :p. And I would click on him and hold down the button while my psi energy pool is being drained, then I release for a super blast. This won't overpower them in 1v1 because they won't even be able to do it. I think the "effects" should be very noticable, you know sort of like how EVERYONE knows whne someone is casting ressurect. Also it would make them more of a powerful support artillery instead of such easy direct damage.
sex
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
2.I would change Holy Lightning and Fire Apocalypse.(or maybe all spells.........but just follow me for a sec). I would make them equal in power to the highest non rare. Except I would make it so that you can "charge them" up for more power up to a limit. Like I would target lemme see........Eric Draven, :p. And I would click on him and hold down the button while my psi energy pool is being drained, then I release for a super blast. This won't overpower them in 1v1 because they won't even be able to do it. I think the "effects" should be very noticable, you know sort of like how EVERYONE knows whne someone is casting ressurect. Also it would make them more of a powerful support artillery instead of such easy direct damage.
I like that idea
I like it a lot
It might even just make me play an APU every once in a while :D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
2.I would change Holy Lightning and Fire Apocalypse.(or maybe all spells.........but just follow me for a sec). I would make them equal in power to the highest non rare. Except I would make it so that you can "charge them" up for more power up to a limit. Like I would target lemme see........Eric Draven, :p. And I would click on him and hold down the button while my psi energy pool is being drained, then I release for a super blast. This won't overpower them in 1v1 because they won't even be able to do it. I think the "effects" should be very noticable, you know sort of like how EVERYONE knows whne someone is casting ressurect. Also it would make them more of a powerful support artillery instead of such easy direct damage.
That is a pretty cool idea.
Nothing really gets nerfed because they have the same power but now you just have to charge it up which actually makes sense. This can be an alternative to an aimer.
Yah Shadow thats a really good idea.
As for the rest of the classes. ITs hard to tell where some other classes stand because of the PPU problem.
But I think PEs are fine. And I think Tanks are good, cept for AoE. Id like to see AoE get boosted. Thats one of the biggest advantages of the Gentank after all. Spies? I think they are good, but I still think they could use extra perks, like able to see stealthers and such.
I agree with Arc. Another thing I would change though is to make speed class based. Tanks should be faster with their weapon drawn than they are now, BUT they should be slower overall (after all, they are big hulks wearing tankloads of armor). Spies should be the fastest class, then PEs, then monks, with monks and tanks probably about the same speed. But it does suck atm that spies have to be really slow due to their lack of con and dex points, while the comparatively massive tanks can easily cap their runspeed without nerfing their offense.
QuantumDelta
01-11-03, 12:13
I like that Scikar.
I had an idea of making Runspeed based on your actual DEX Level, rather than anything else, the only problem is, while it does make Spy fastest, PE second, Tank third, it screws the Monks over....
Ozambabbaz
01-11-03, 12:16
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I like that Scikar.
I had an idea of making Runspeed based on your actual DEX Level, rather than anything else, the only problem is, while it does make Spy fastest, PE second, Tank third, it screws the Monks over....
i wouldn't have a problem with that :p
seriously tho, if Dex was made a factor, other than the existing Ath/Agl combo, would it screw monks that bad? like 0.2dex+0.5agl+0.3ath?
Shadow Dancer
01-11-03, 18:48
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
That is a pretty cool idea.
Originally posted by Jest
Yah Shadow thats a really good idea.
Originally posted by Marzola
I like that idea
I like it a lot
*cough* *strokes his hair*
I know i'm so smart. :o
:p Maybe I should post it in brainport. Or here as a brainport idea.
Disturbed021
01-11-03, 22:50
Didn't read any other posts cause I'm feeling lazy right now.
I said "Yes". I think all classes ALONE right now are close to balanced.
When you add PPUs to the equation then no. Tanks that are parad are worthless and APUs when buffed are extremely deadly. Too deadly? Dunno, maybe.
TBH, kk has never been able to balance things out very well and will continue nerfing/adjusting classes until the game dies.....
Classes are balanced when any team of 2 can beat any other team of two.
Example: if classes were balanced, a PE and a TANK should be able to beat an APU and a PPU team. we all know this is NOT possible, therefore the classes are unbalanced. before you flame, this is the idea:
PE/TANK have no defensive qualities over the other team, but have more firepower....therefore they should be able to kill the apu/ppu BEFORE they die themselves.
APU/PPU have a large defensive favor, but only ONE of them can actually fight...so its up to him to solely take the other two offensive beasts on.
This fight SHOULD be even...aka if the PE and TANK outskill the APU and PPU they win. We all know that a PE and a TANK would have nearly an impossable time killing a PPU so this would never work, and due to being frozen by holy para I highly doubt the tank and pe would even be able to get the apu to half hp.
Classes are NOT balanced.
I think one of the BIGGEST problems are PPUs. Look at any other game then Neocron. The healer (ppu) is always one of the must usefull classes for a team, yet the healer is always WEAK. Any game, even non-mmorpgs....the healer is a weakass. The idea is that the GROUP has to PROTECT the healer, the healer can keep everyone else alive nicely but if the enemy gets up in the healers face, its sadly over.
In Neocron, the healer is invulnerable. Thats messed up, and it needs to change if balance is ever to be achieved.
But anyway...thats a whole other topic.
QuantumDelta
01-11-03, 23:19
Oh man that was funny...my PE, and my Tank can kill a APU/PPU Combo, and so can some of my other friends...
And yet....
A Tank and a PE together can't... lol.... :p
It's not as bad as everyone makes out, because, even with Capped Holy Shelter/Deflector on, an APU is as good as cooked if they don't have holy heal on, if they DO have holy heal on, they will die eventually, it just takes longer.
Also, Damage Boost helps Greatly :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Oh man that was funny...my PE, and my Tank can kill a APU/PPU Combo, and so can some of my other friends...
And yet....
A Tank and a PE together can't... lol.... :p
It's not as bad as everyone makes out, because, even with Capped Holy Shelter/Deflector on, an APU is as good as cooked if they don't have holy heal on, if they DO have holy heal on, they will die eventually, it just takes longer.
Also, Damage Boost helps Greatly :p
Yep, the old "I sneaked up and killed a PPU and an APU together from behind when the PPU was unbuffed! I would have been killed by the APU but my ultra secret resist setup stopped me from dying." :rolleyes:
When playing your PPU have you ever been with an APU friend and both of you been killed by a tank or PE?
QuantumDelta
02-11-03, 01:21
Originally posted by Scikar
Yep, the old "I sneaked up and killed a PPU and an APU together from behind when the PPU was unbuffed! I would have been killed by the APU but my ultra secret resist setup stopped me from dying." :rolleyes:
Amature.
Killed the APU.
Ran around TL3 Healing the PPU/Self shooting the PPU until he, eventually, inebitably, screwed up.
PPU Tried to rezz the APU first two times, both times the APU fell over again the instant he stood up.
FYI, on the occasion with the Tank, they were buffed and almost ready to attack me, but I hit them first (APU Flatlined very quickly cuz he had no holy heal on, even with S/D).
Occasion(s) with the PE, Typically I'm Parashocked before combat even starts.
I've had people jump me when I'm fighting Chasers and still won. (Actually there's some fun tricks with that... :p)
When playing your PPU have you ever been with an APU friend and both of you been killed by a tank or PE? [/B]
................................................................No....... :p
Interesting as your method is, I rest my case. :)
Shadow Dancer
02-11-03, 02:32
QD, I see, so you whine about pes not being able to kill good apus or that apus are overpowered, yet you can kill an apu who's buffed, yet again at the same time somehow the apu and ppu weren't noobs. Not only that, it's hilarious how you tell me somehow apus kill you in 4 hits or do 100 damage leg hits, etc..................
ok....................
QuantumDelta
02-11-03, 11:53
I told you, a lot depends on random damage, but as soon as the APU goes down, that's it.
I also recently tweaked my config :p
The point is the APUs who are buffed typically just ...stand still, I can walk cast damage boost so I use that as best I can to avoid fire and then once damage boost is doing it only takes a few seconds to kill the APU, it depends somewhat on luck, as much as it does skill, but my only other option is to stealth and run away......fuck that o_O
like you said, most of the APUs in this game except the soloists are pretty pathetic.
I haven't met one single APU in an enemy faction recently that is GOOD without a PPU Strapped to his ass.
It's a psychological thing, but of course, that's just one of those things... I consider it a class weakness, the psychological one.
As for the PPU, yes there's some over powered stuff on the PPU trail, but meh, it'll get dealt with.
However... I should probably add that my PE ...before I want tech combat, could kill the OLD Hybrids.
Keithz was suprised that without para, I beat him in a duel...
Neofrog found one of my tricks out during a duel and had a good chuckle.
So really killing an APU/PPU combo isn't much different from an old hybrid (2v1/1v1), because the old hybrid can't runcast properly, the APU/PPU combo can't run around comfortably because they need to co-ordinate.
....It's not really a case of winning the fight because either class is over or underpowered, it's a combination of luck, skill, and knowing everyone's weakness.
If the APU had been alive much longer than he was, I would have been dead, it's true, if I hadn't been buffed before the fight started, I'd have been dead, it's true.
If the PPU had woken up and paraspammed me as the APU died I might have died right then and there, however, he didn't, and my heal speed is great as a PE, so after a few seconds he didn't have the chance...
I'm not *really* advocating PPUs or APUs, I'm just saying that things ARE NOT as bad as everyone makes them out to be.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
poison damage upward
My main character is a 62/54 apu and I'm gonna have to go way against that. Poison is IMO fair if not over powered for its TL. Poison beam at TL 80 is fucking amazing. Its not as good as HL... but thats because its a lower TL non rare... Holy Pest is also very very very good. Fire on the other hand could use a boost. Not a really big one but fire apoc is underpowered. Energy is so consistant its better than every other damage type.
Now about classes as a whole...
Monks are to powerful and right now are the only classes needed in this game. They can cst, heal, fight, hack, and everything else. More classes need important roles.... Not that monks are to powerful... they arnt... they're just to good at to many things in to many situations.
Spies are ballanced enough IMO. Shelter would make them overly powerful I think... they can already have good resists with that PA. Spies suck, period. I thought that was accepted by now. They are the tradeskillers, snipers (that suck), and wanna be special OPs but end up sucking and quitting game characters....
Melee needs to do more kinds of damage (poison mods!) that are not so easily resisted.
Now that I have typed a big thread that no one gives a shit about, everyone already knows, and kk wont read.... I'm going to bed.
Shadow Dancer
02-11-03, 19:25
Originally posted by Drake6k
My main character is a 62/54 apu and I'm gonna have to go way against that. Poison is IMO fair if not over powered for its TL. Poison beam at TL 80 is fucking amazing. Its not as good as HL... but thats because its a lower TL non rare... Holy Pest is also very very very good.
*sigh*
That's a load of crap. Poison against someone with no poison resist is still weaker than HL. Don't gimme the crap about it being a lower TL. You're comparing it to someone with ZERO Poison resist. That just shows how off your thinking is. Have you even pvped with your apu for an adequate amount? Any other apus actually think that poison is "fucking amazing"?
Drake, why don't you lom away your CON fire resist and take away your fire armor. Now watch a measly fire halo do like 200 damage to you.
You and people like you just want to have to not worry about poison at all without putting any resist. Have you ever seen how crappy poison is with SOME resist? Did you know with 50 resist, pestilence does about 10 damage per tick? OMOGMOGMOGMOMGO YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT'S VERY VERY VERY VERY good. :rolleyes:
You also forget poison is 24 second DOT. I'd take instant damage over spread out damage(*cough* more time to heal, or to run to your ppu's apt and say "omg ANTIDOTE") any day.
You also forget about drugs. The first level drug takes away 2 stacks very quickly. So not only does poison do less damage to someone, even though they have ZERO poison resist, even though they would be SUPER RAPED by piercing/x-ray/sex/ANYTHING if they had ZERO resist to it, but there's also drugs for it.
Less damage
24 second DOT
Drugs
Anti-spells
And somehow poison is "fucking amazing". :rolleyes:
Go ahead and put all your resist to 0. THEN Compare damage. It's like me saying "omg x-heat CS OWNZ compared to any other ammo mod" just because I fought someone with crappy fire resist.
THX
BlackPrince
02-11-03, 19:45
Spies themselves are fine, but moving shelter to TL18 would be perfect IMO. The only change I'd make would be to the sniper rifles. Return them to 7.62mm ammo, change the scope interface to the normal keypad selection, and up the RoF just a hair.
Tank vs. PE is as close to perfect as you can get.
APUs, tone down HL just a hair, down its range a wee bit, and shazaam, you're done.
PPU's...no comment.
From what i've noticed, poison is only good in a PP battle or if someone is zoning in and out of the UG. Maybe a rare poison beam is what APU's need?
Shadow Dancer
02-11-03, 20:04
Originally posted by Marzola
From what i've noticed, poison is only good in a PP battle or if someone is zoning in and out of the UG. Maybe a rare poison beam is what APU's need?
So people can cry nerf because they die due to lack of poison resist?
The only thing that isnt balanced is PPU (which is overpowered) and some of the lower to mid level weapons.
Promethius
03-11-03, 02:30
Honestly the only way classes could be balanced is if u take a tank and clone em and rename the clones into a class.
Even tho everyone is fighting for balanceing this and that. it can onyl be so balanced. The rest u jsut got to live with.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Killed the APU.
Ran around TL3 Healing the PPU/Self shooting the PPU until he, eventually, inebitably, screwed up.
PPU Tried to rezz the APU first two times, both times the APU fell over again the instant he stood up.
must have been a newb combo... becuase as a tank there is no way in hell i can keep a ppu from rezing his apu friend... i cant kill the apu (dont do enuff dmg with cs/speedgat/moonie) holy heal keeps the apu alive and then wham shelters.. ie one screwd tank..
a pe might have it a bit easier... if he can slapp a low lvl shelt on the apu before the ppu rezz... tl3 healing a ppu is useless since the heal sanctum will out heal any dmg a lone pe can do
right now im not soo sure about removing holy para anymore... the good high lvl ppus will be unkillable... you just cant kill em if you cant slow em down.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.