Tanks and speed and stuff like that

[death&decay]

I did some neofragging again yesterday, played my tank to figure
out if and how much tanks still are playable in 1v1..

Of course what really matters is movement/aiming. Heh.
Rifle PEs are well-balanced imo, had a few very good fights..

When it comes to pistol PE vs tank it gets goddamn ugly ;)
It's not damage what makes em superior, it's slightly the PEs
defences but what matters the most is the full runspeed.

I don't have the world's best aiming but a pistola's speed is teh
ubar overpowered :lol:

I liked the amount of damage we took from each other, was really
balanced and stuff. The only thing that made me go down 9 of 10
fights was the speed.

Now if tank's runspeed with weapon equipped would be upped,
the riflers would have a disadvantage.

So a nice way to compensate for the speed advantage would be
to remove the speednerf when weapons are equipped, for every
class. That would also bring a bit of fairness into the point-and-
click type aiming of monks.

I know at least 1 APU monk that constantly beats my tank, and I
guess my tank's low speed is an important factor.

And please, I don't wanna hear comments like "tanks are as fast
as PEs with weapons out" that is wrong, really. We've tested and
proven it.

Oh, and please increase AOE damage :p

Whiners, haters, flameZors stay out of my thread plz :)

SEX

[Oath]

sex j00

Yo buddeh, remember when everyone ran at the same speed?

Twas tankocron, if ya boost everones speed, ya gotta bring back freezers, oh, and tone down holy paraspam.

But like i said, tanks = t3h slowestest

[y544tji]

YES YES REMOVE SPEEDNERF WHEN WEAPONS EQUIPPED

PWNZ PWNZ FPS QUAKE STYLE I WANT THAT !!!

[Cryotchekk]

rolh pe's totally own (except fenix :D:D) but i think run speed's are fine, if u dont like being slow with cs out, do sumthing about it. duh.

[death&decay]

Well yeah, it was Tankocron.
But not due to runspeed, the reason was no one knew how to
properly set up a PE. Pistols were nerfed a lot and stuff.

Now with the PE PA PEs can easily use rolh and judge and all
good pvp weapons. Plus, we know how to get decent defences.

And freezers won't come back, I can't imagine that.

I sexxor jooooo

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
if u dont like being slow with cs out, do sumthing about it. duh.

I've done what's possible, that's for sure.

[Oath]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
rolh pe's totally own (except fenix :D:D) but i think run speed's are fine, if u dont like being slow with cs out, do sumthing about it. duh.

Problem is, theres nothing you can do about it, capped con, over specced agil and poppin drugs doesnt make any difference after a point, fact is a pistol PE beats you 9/10 times cos he's fast, his mega defence helps obvviously, and the fact the the damage, aiming output of other classes is much higher (contradict me i dare ya CS at 2 m still doesnt aim as well as a pain easer @ 400m.)

[Cryotchekk]

about 80 base ath/agil. amc3, that running backbone thingy, exp foot and leg is quite good.

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
about 80 base ath/agil. amc3, that running backbone thingy, exp foot and leg is quite good.

AMC3 is a brain implant O_o

Are you absolutely sure that you know what you're talking bout?
80 agility???

No offence, please don't post in this thread anymore, I'd
appreciate it.

[Cryotchekk]

Originally posted by Oath
Problem is, theres nothing you can do about it, capped con, over specced agil and poppin drugs doesnt make any difference after a point, fact is a pistol PE beats you 9/10 times cos he's fast, his mega defence helps obvviously, and the fact the the damage, aiming output of other classes is much higher (contradict me i dare ya CS at 2 m still doesnt aim as well as a pain easer @ 400m.)


so thats 100 xray/energy resist (base) 60 fire resist (base) plus pp resistor, a gamma head bone, heavy inq boots dura 4 medium deflector belt and pa 3 (as well as the other thing i posted) and a capped aiming/rof cs helps alot. but because alot of people cant/dont have a setup like this rolh pe's still own.

[Oath]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
about 80 base ath/agil. amc3, that running backbone thingy, exp foot and leg is quite good. Yeah sure is, til you pull your cs..............................then its back to UG ME BIG CAVEMAN ME NO RUN GOOD, ME SLOW..............onoz, dont run around me, come back here,,,,,,,,,,,HEY JOO MUDDA TRUCKA!!!!!! STOOP SHOOTING ME IN T3H BACKZOR!



What gets me is, although a PEs psi is reduced, unlike other PA,s they dont lose any speed at all.

But to say that tanks can run fine is bullshit, even monks run faster than them, outdamage them too..............what the fuck is up with that, monks shouldnt be able to runcast, its ghey, they should hva eto sit and meditate or summit, anything but run

[Cryotchekk]

Originally posted by death&decay

AMC3 is a brain implant O_o

Are you absolutely sure that you know what you're talking bout?
80 agility???

No offence, please don't post in this thread anymore, I'd
appreciate it.


yes, i am sure i know what im talking about. allthough ath/agil is supposed to stop at 70, but thats bollocks, it still does more when u go past it. amc3 is good, coz the only other brain imps a tank needs is moveon, marine (maybe a herc too)

[Dribble Joy]

Pistol PEs have to be fucking fast, tank guns (guess which one) do so much dmg that they stand no chance whatso ever if tanks actually start hitting them.
The vast majority of Pistol PEs don't have a chance against tanks.
I still CANNOT beat a tank regardless of rank and skill in a deul.

[Oath]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
so thats 100 xray/energy resist (base) 60 fire resist (base) plus pp resistor, a gamma head bone, heavy inq boots dura 4 medium deflector belt and pa 3 (as well as the other thing i posted) and a capped aiming/rof cs helps alot. but because alot of people cant/dont have a setup like this rolh pe's still own.

Dude, that setup sucks cock.

really.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know how to set a tank up, ive been playing one over a year, i am skillfull with him, however, even if i was practicing 24/7 i couldnt beat a pistol PE (a good one) cos they dont slow down at all.

And who the hell wears Power armor anyway nOObs

[Oath]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Pistol PEs have to be fucking fast, tank guns (guess which one) do so much dmg that they stand no chance whatso ever if tanks actually start hitting them.
The vast majority of Pistol PEs don't have a chance against tanks.
I still CANNOT beat a tank regardless of rank and skill in a deul.


...............................O_o

OOOOOOOOOOOOOk....................a cs to another tank does waht avergae 65 - 100 (100 on noobs :lol:) average on a Pe?? 35 -55?


the reason i owned you dribble was cos you couldnt aim, you just gotta practice, you saw how much trouble i had hitting you. and i as all over you with capped aiming rof n shit.

also i gotta say one thing HERC CHIPS ARE NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE OF GETTING THEM!!! also you simpy do not need a move on. klolthxbye.

[Cryotchekk]

Originally posted by Oath
Dude, that setup sucks cock.

really.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know how to set a tank up, ive been playing one over a year, i am skillfull with him, however, even if i was practicing 24/7 i couldnt beat a pistol PE (a good one) cos they dont slow down at all.

And who the hell wears Power armor anyway nOObs

heh, and the one saying wearing pa is noobish aint a noob? o.0?

i think u play saturn right? and from what i have seen theres only a handfull of good people there. have u tried on any other servers? most good people on pluto now have a setup wich is kinda like that

[Oath]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
heh, and the one saying wearing pa is noobish aint a noob? o.0?

i think u play saturn right? and from what i have seen theres only a handfull of good people there. have u tried on any other servers? most good people on pluto now have a setup wich is kinda like that

No i dont play on saturn, only when uranus went down.

As for me being a noob...............nope.

And the GOOD ones on pluto dont have a setu plike that, cos they know that you dont need new gadgets like a herc chip to be good, it helps at lower leves sure, but when your capped the extra strength is basically useless, also by the time youve capped your gaonn have bout between 190 - 205 heavy, so tell me the need for a move on or a herc?

Of course its down to personal preference, and btw, if yo9u dont know me, dont comment on me.

Klolthxbye

[WebShock]

OMFG SEX KTNX

thank you!!!

we need more threads like this! get off the nerf bat threads and onto more important crap. the tank that has been beaten unconcious with the nerf bat.... obsolete HC pa that no capped tank uses and of course... the AGL/ATH nerf... 50% of your screen gone due to that big ass cannon... makes me fight 3rd person..

[Dribble Joy]

But if the runspeed-reduction-with-guns-out was removed, PEs would be fucked. Would help against monkehs though....

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
so thats 100 xray/energy resist (base) 60 fire resist (base) plus pp resistor, a gamma head bone, heavy inq boots dura 4 medium deflector belt and pa 3


Wtf is that?
THAT would be 190ish energy, 140ish fire, 120ish xray.
Do you think that's right?
Way too much energy and low xray.
100 enr 100 xrr base? need 70 levels to get that what about
health and por?
There are smoother ways to get that.
Of course you can kill people using that setup.
But not people with a good one.



Originally posted by Cryotchekk
yes, i am sure i know what im talking about. allthough ath/agil is supposed to stop at 70, but thats bollocks, it still does more when u go past it. amc3 is good, coz the only other brain imps a tank needs is moveon, marine (maybe a herc too)

I'm not a newbie asking for advice, I wanted to discuss balance
issues and not con-setups. My agility is in the 110s My athetics
ain't but it's still much higher than 70.

And I was talking about runspeed with guns equipped, PvP wise.

I want to ask you again, politely, to stop posting in this thread.
Thanks for the advice with ag/ath, although I didn't need it.
It's not about con-setups.

Bye!

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
But if the runspeed-reduction-with-guns-out was removed, PEs would be fucked. Would help against monkehs though....

I'd say you're not dribbling enough :(
I won the duells we had coz you was kinda running circles, not
taking advantage of your superior speed!

You should watch Xantor's pistoleer, his speed is fuckin ridiculous!
I want that for tanks aswell, it's just fair.

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
most good people on pluto now have a setup wich is kinda like that

BTW, REMUS from pluto (you don't wanna ass that one) sent me
his setup few days ago, and it is nowhere near the crap you
posted.

:)

[Dribble Joy]

I have about 85 in AGL/ATL more if I use beast, for some reason I move really slowly.
Even if I dodge like a crazy fucker, people still hit me.
Does FPS still determine runspeed? Like with vejicles a while ago?

[death&decay]

I think the FPS thing with vehicles is still there.
And no, I don't think FPS influence runspeed.

But high latency could!?
I've seen people float arround in a weird way, like still on the
ground but kinda slow, all twitch movements smoothed.

Happens in NF sometimes maybe you're suffering that..


Fuck knows

[Stigmata]

Pistol PEs have to be fucking fast, tank guns (guess which one) do so much dmg that they stand no chance whatso ever if tanks actually start hitting them.
The vast majority of Pistol PEs don't have a chance against tanks.
I still CANNOT beat a tank regardless of rank and skill in a deul.

if you are gonna say that a CS hurts too much you might wanna check out your con setup, a tank takes more dmg from a CS than any half decent PE does.

+ a PE runs like a mofo

+ a tank is virtually stationary.

Andy

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by death&decay

You should watch Xantor's pistoleer, his speed is fuckin ridiculous!
I want that for tanks aswell, it's just fair.


For a PE to do that he requires a couple of drugs, or he requires crappy resists.

FYI, My Tank with 115 AGL and 95odd ATL runs *almost* as fast as my PE with my Tanks cannon drawn.

Heh, it's amusing, Tanks so far in the last two days have asked for;

Better offence.
Better defence.
The Best Runspeed.

Lots of people say "I don't wanna nerf PEs but I wanna boost my class so that it's better than PEs! :p" that's paraphrasing slightly, but if it isn't true then people are very nieve...

FPS *HEAVILY* Influences Runspeed, it's why most of my setups are configured for Defence not for Speed, because I get 20 FPS "Max" in a PvP situation, in an op war situation, probably 15-10.

A CS burst will hit a GREAT Defencive PE for about 45 ish when buffed.
This is more than 1/10 of our health.
A lot of PEs aim for 400 HP *buffed* top end, and those not at the top end say "Wtf 400 HP, too high!?" when I tell them.

It pisses me off to no end, in an op fight, Tanks are already more useful than PEs and yet TANKS WANT MORE FFS.

If you're GOING to boost the tanks because of monks you are GOING to have to boost PEs and Spies right along the way, or you are going to have to nerf the monks.

There's no other way around it.
As for The PE thing.
Yea, I played Osty - he runs like XaNToRs pistol pe, ya know what?
He dies in about 7 lib bursts.
Their defence is PATHETIC.
Give a Tank Runspeed like that and I want them to die in less than 7 Bursts, because they have this huge overpowered Burst Based Weapon on their shoulder which does more damage than I could ever hope to output.

You see CS hit, 1 or 2 blobs, it does a notable amount of damage.
You see Liberator hit, 1 or 2 bullets you see .."....9...." come off peoples heads.

It's, Balanced.

[Dribble Joy]

Exactly.

I get about 15 fps in NF when in the middle of combat, about 30 ish when I'm stationery.
I still can't get my PE to take less than 50 from a CS (again as QD said, over 1/10 of my HP) My spells arn't quite artifact (about 116%) and I don't use resist drugs (glares at QD)

[QuantumDelta]

If you don't use drugs you wont be as good as the best tanks... or me... sorry DJ...

[Dribble Joy]

I just... hate res drugs.. bleh

I use all the others though :p

I'll never be able to beat any tank, why? 'cos I suck kiwi fruit.

[Judge]

Tanks have to be sorted but not increase runspeed with cannons.

As I see it tanks were designed for mass production for wars where hundreds of them would work together right? Well I think that tanks should work better in teams together, I mean have advantages when tanks are put in a team, extra resists body health and weapon skill. Also yes AoE should be boosted. Also I do think that tanks armour should be increased.... This would make them excellent participants at OP wars with really good armour and PPU boosts and extra bonus from working in a team.

You can sit in a dueling enviroment all day and say that tanks are shit compared to PEs. But the fact of the matter is that if you turn that on its head and in an OP enviroment PEs will be less useful than tanks. Especially Pistol PEs, which are the best at one-on-one fights. Rifle PEs are ok in duels and ok in op fights, tanks are good in op fights (should be better however) but bad in duels, Pistol PEs are great in duels but bad in OP fights.

Its almost balanced... just tanks need a small boost in the teamwork factor, nothing that will affect their dueling capacity. Now if we could only get these silly psi monks to work properly. :p

[SypH]

I dont think there's a problem. Another runner and I tested out a situation like this on the Test Server, me playing the PE and he the tank. I used an unmodded libby and he used an unmodded CS. I only used basic resist booster 1 and a deflector, as did he. I'm not a good pvp player but I'd say the wins me winning half the duels (cant remember exactly tho). When he did hit me, it did do alot more dmg per burst, than what my libby was doing, but thanks to me having an insane run speed I was able to last longer. For the duels I lost I can safely say that if I had lived another few seconds I'd have had him. Likewise for the duels I had won, had he got off another burst, I'd be a dead PE.

[Original monk]

only reason a PE owns a tank is cause of its PSI-skill

NOTHING else

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Judge

Its almost balanced... just tanks need a small boost in the teamwork factor, nothing that will affect their dueling capacity. Now if we could only get these silly psi monks to work properly. :p

Tanks AoE also needs to be increased.
And I am growing more fond of the whole Rare Gatlin Cannon idea so long as it's not more powerful than CS :p

edit;
Oh yea

Originally posted by Original monk
only reason a PE owns a tank is cause of its PSI-skill

NOTHING else

100% correct.

[Dribble Joy]

Of course, and the PEPA makes PEs even more useless in OP fights (a less direct but very effective malus to using it, all you who whine about PEs 'not haveing negs on thier PA', shush)

[Cryotchekk]

Originally posted by Oath
No i dont play on saturn, only when uranus went down.

As for me being a noob...............nope.

And the GOOD ones on pluto dont have a setu plike that, cos they know that you dont need new gadgets like a herc chip to be good, it helps at lower leves sure, but when your capped the extra strength is basically useless, also by the time youve capped your gaonn have bout between 190 - 205 heavy, so tell me the need for a move on or a herc?

Of course its down to personal preference, and btw, if yo9u dont know me, dont comment on me.

Klolthxbye

so err, the +18 htl from moveon and +15 (or whatever) from herc is bad 0.o??? that equals more free con points for ath o.0. and err... u dont know me, so dont comment first.

to death& decay: i know remus, i fight him quite often but from our large rank difference he dont do much damage etc. he is a good tank but there are plenty better (no offence m8)

[Genty]

Originally posted by y544tji
YES YES REMOVE SPEEDNERF WHEN WEAPONS EQUIPPED

PWNZ PWNZ FPS QUAKE STYLE I WANT THAT !!!

If you want FPS quake style I suggest you leave Neocron and go play Quake. Please.

[Rade]

In duells most tanks beat most PEs. In OP battles tanks are alot
more useful than PEs. Exactly what is the problem here? What do
you want? Tanks being gods?

I rolled a Tank on test server and duelled a load of people and I
was tearing through them in a manner I could never do with my
PE. The CS hits like a god and does great damage, the runspeed
was annoying but not that bad with some overspeccing and the
defence and health is damn nice. All you tanks that think PEs are
so damn overpowered should try playing one and you will notice
that fighting tanks isnt as easy as it looks.

[death&decay]

My PE has 480 HP, takes 51 from CS, has capped damage on rolh,
163 shots/min, ag/athl in the 90s. And shelter, and stealth, and a
nice heal. I need 2 drugs for that, and no SA.

40 HP less than my tank, 30 damage less from a CS burst.
She definitely takes more CS bursts than any tank.

And listen guys, I don't care if any of you likes to drug up or not,
there IS the opportunity to massively improve one's setup by
druggin WHEN YOU'RE A PE.
If you're a tank, you can eat drugs and nothing changes lol.

So it has to be taken into account that PEs CAN do that.

If I had to fight PE vs Tank (I mean my chars) the PE would win.
Coz PEs are lovely.

When it comes to OPfights Tanks definitely AIN'T useless!
I'm talking about 1 vs 1 duelling advantages and the fact that PEs
can beat tanks in face-to-face. Coz that means that they have
a higher output/defense ratio. PLUS they run quicker PLUS they
heal quicker PLUS if they get in danger they can give you the
finger by stealthing.

[death&decay]

Who cares about libby damage? There's BS JUDGE BoH RoLH
And why does anyone compare a lowtech TL93 weapon (YEAH
LIB) To a hightech TL 105 weapon (UHUH CURSED SOUL)?
That's ridiculous!

If you wanna compare 2 classes pvp wise you gotta max out all
their fookin stats and give em the best gear the can use.

For PEs that's RoLH which does at least just as much damage to
a tacnk than cursed soul. It's not about what the numbers in the
info-window say, it's coz rolh hits 90% of all shots while CS hits
50-60%.

I don't like naming people in here but if you think that PEs are
weaker than tanks just take a fuckin look at xantor.

He maxxes out everything, uses all the stuff a PE can use.
And that's what counts, what is possible.

PEs are monsters. Hairy monsters. And I love em. But I also love
my tank, and tanks are getting butt-fucked pvp wise atm.

I'm not talking about PPUs, OP wars or anything BUT 1 vs 1.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by death&decay

My PE has 480 HP, takes 51 from CS, has capped damage on rolh,
163 shots/min, ag/athl in the 90s. And shelter, and stealth, and a
nice heal. I need 2 drugs for that, and no SA.

40 HP less than my tank, 30 damage less from a CS burst.
She definitely takes more CS bursts than any tank.

And listen guys, I don't care if any of you likes to drug up or not,
there IS the opportunity to massively improve one's setup by
druggin WHEN YOU'RE A PE.
If you're a tank, you can eat drugs and nothing changes lol.

So it has to be taken into account that PEs CAN do that.

If I had to fight PE vs Tank (I mean my chars) the PE would win.
Coz PEs are lovely.

When it comes to OPfights Tanks definitely AIN'T useless!
I'm talking about 1 vs 1 duelling advantages and the fact that PEs
can beat tanks in face-to-face. Coz that means that they have
a higher output/defense ratio. PLUS they run quicker PLUS they
heal quicker PLUS if they get in danger they can give you the
finger by stealthing.
I presume this is a Pure WEP / PSU Setup and the drug is redflash/whiteflash/destrosol forte?

I chewed a couple of drugs on my Tank skill setup, ya know what?
I CON Capped all four resists, had 90 ATL, 140 AGL, Capped HP, and 62 END, not to mention Capped CS aiming and almost-runcastable heal...

Again the "runspeed" thing, while I do think it's a little *too* harsh it SHOULD be there.

You say that "PEs can do all this to make themselves better but Tanks can't." Well, I just shown they can, what's more, I know from past experience, that, apart from maybe yourself and ONE or TWO other Tanks in this community dJingo, you will find most tanks go "BUT I CANT BE FUCKED TO DRUG ... OR BUFF OR WHATEVER I WANNA JUST PWN WHEN I CLICK BUTTON RWAR!"

Hense, why I have zero sympathy, outside, of tanks such as yourself.

If you read the storyline, Tanks were never meant to be "solo units" they weren't designed to "duel" they were designed to work as part of a team.
Currently, this is more or less the case, Tanks > PEs a long way with PPU Support(Op wars).

PEs *ONLY* Advantage *EVER* in Neocron is their _SELF_ _DEPENDANCE_

PEs, are the last character left which has self-dependance because of all the Tanks screaming "I wanna be better then XYZ with Zero EFFORT!"

I take into account that PEs can be drugged, you know I do, because for the longest time I didn't fight without drugs.

Do you know what caused this problems?

Tanks wanted everything "now."
PEs didn't really say much, Spies had a DEX Range which went above PEs.
The most capable, and the more willing to drug/use extreme setups, PEs become, the more they closed the gap between PEs and Tanks, eventually, the gap became completely non-existant.
As of now, the gap is non-existant, except, it is possible that RoLH is a little too powerful in the hands of the PE.

It's a nice puzzle to unravel, but it's not as simple as most of these ............morons? have been saying "boost tank defence... boost tank runspeed.....boost tank offence.... give us more shit...."
Simply, because if the game continues on it's current path, it wont matter, no matter what the lazy ass tank askes for, and gets, from KK, PEs will stretch, strain, and push themselves even harder, to reach their limit, which will almost always be found to equal or exceed tanks.
Simply put;

"If a PE chews every drug in the game he's better than a Tank if he's setup right" yea no shit, but that isn't really combat viable.
Just lazy ass tanks wanting to be better with no effort...





Originally posted by death&decay
Who cares about libby damage? There's BS JUDGE BoH RoLH
And why does anyone compare a lowtech TL93 weapon (YEAH
LIB) To a hightech TL 105 weapon (UHUH CURSED SOUL)?
That's ridiculous!
Now you're getting ridiculous.

Why is Cursed Soul better than Disruptor.
Why is Cursed Soul better than RoLH.
Why is Cursed Soul better than First Love.
WHY?!


If you wanna compare 2 classes pvp wise you gotta max out all
their fookin stats and give em the best gear the can use.
Then I demand that Tanks chew all the drugs as well.


For PEs that's RoLH which does at least just as much damage to
a tacnk than cursed soul. It's not about what the numbers in the
info-window say, it's coz rolh hits 90% of all shots while CS hits
50-60%.
You yourself had had better accuracy vs me with CS than that.


I don't like naming people in here but if you think that PEs are
weaker than tanks just take a fuckin look at xantor.

He maxxes out everything, uses all the stuff a PE can use.
And that's what counts, what is possible.
For all of five minutes, and then he is completely useless without a rezz.


PEs are monsters. Hairy monsters. And I love em. But I also love
my tank, and tanks are getting butt-fucked pvp wise atm.

I'm not talking about PPUs, OP wars or anything BUT 1 vs 1.
PEs are designed to duel.
Tanks, are not.

[Oath]

this is getting sily now.\

Cryothekk,

Your run speed is influenced heavily by agility and athletics yes, its also imnfluenced by your con, capped tank con with 70 /70 agil and ath runs faster thans an over specced tank at 120/120 agil and ath.

AS for your health, Stfu, my tank has 70 natural health.........comes in at 100 after imps, i got 550 hp, maybe more, i dont need extra health, i also dont need less health.

when you shed your noobiness then come and whine an try to destroy my argument.

fact is tanks are slow.

No matter how you spec. wether yoy got 100000000 athletics and agil or wether you got 0........................TANKS ARE SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, before someone compares it to real life again, which, no doubt someone will, YES IF WE RAN AROUND WITH CANNONS ON WE WOULD BE SLOWER...............BUT, in real life we dont have strength 100 and we cant overspec our agility and athletics.

Think about it, who actually got fucked by the nerf speed.

Heavy combat tanks, and rifle pe's..................monks? nope Pistol Pe's? nope, melee tanks HAHAHAHHAHA nope. spys as usual dont count, they smell funny.

and btw dood, its O_o O not fucking 0 looooooool. ok cheap shot i know but nm.

after about 115 BHL there is a barely noticable difference, and via testing we found that having too much HP = more damage, the sweetspot was between 450 and 550..............any more is wasted imps............why have an extra 3 or 6 heavy? stick a targ 3 chip in, more wepaon lore = better aiming, slow? advancd movement 3, though again that suffers from the same issues as teh move one and herc, after a point its just useless.

OK and to clarify my origianl attack on your setup, who want to spend weeks in MC5 to get one fuckinjg chip that in honest no-one really needs, a dimension splitter sure, thats geart as i the others, again tanlks get the raw deal over MC5 and other chips, even the move on is next to uselss these days.

OI notice that the people who are always in these threads saying NO TANKS ARE FINE, are PEs and monks. Coincedence?

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Rade
In duells most tanks beat most PEs.

Then, on your server, most PEs suck.


Originally posted by Rade
In OP battles tanks are alot more useful than PEs. [/B]

Doesn't that depend on how PEs are being played?
I mean... If you force em to do tank-jobs, for sure they can't do it
like a tank can.
But you could take advantage of other PE abilities like stealthing,
which is very useful for scouting. Or hacking. If there's no hacker
you can't take an OP or do you know a tank that hacks OPs?

I can't expect a char that's given trade-skills to be the perfect
warrior.
In 1 vs 1 all classes should be balanced, definitely.
But in wars, what would you need a tank for if you can take PEs
with you instead who are able to hack and stealth and poke and
stuff.

In wars tanks should be the ultimate "tanks" full stop

[death&decay]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

Why is Cursed Soul better than Disruptor.
Why is Cursed Soul better than RoLH.
Why is Cursed Soul better than First Love.
WHY?!

Disruptor does 62 damage/burst to my tank and has MUCH MORE
accuracy and range.
ROLH The damage over time against a standing still target is
about the same, rolh does not gimp speed, has higher accuracy.


Originally posted by QuantumDelta

Then I demand that Tanks chew all the drugs as well.

That's a silly exaggeration I mentioned before that my PE only
takes 2 drugs. MY tank uses 1 drug and I'd be cool with 2 drugs
aswell. Drugging to get +10 WEP or HEALTH ain't the point.
Drugging for better weapons/armor/spells THAT'S the point.
Which weapons/armor/spells cana a tank drug up to?


Originally posted by QuantumDelta

You yourself had had better accuracy vs me with CS than that.


That's coz you were standing still or circle-strafing, giving me an
easy target.



Originally posted by QuantumDelta

For all of five minutes, and then he is completely useless without a rezz.

You must be joking. I get a drugflash every 10 minutes. Well
sometimes I get that, sometimes I get none at all.


Originally posted by QuantumDelta

PEs are designed to duel.
Tanks, are not.


I respect your opinion but that's shit. Every class should be able
to duell as duelling is part of the game. Anyways who said that??
Tanks are designed to kill so why not to duell O_o
Weird m8

For those who missed the color, couldn't be arsed :D

[Rade]

Rofl, if you honestly think RoLH has the same damage over time
as a CS then just take a PE and a tank, both standing still and
shooting at each other, and see who drops first. Tank would
have over half health left which, imo, is as it should be.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Rade
Rofl, if you honestly think RoLH has the same damage over time
as a CS then just take a PE and a tank, both standing still and
shooting at each other, and see who drops first. Tank would
have over half health left which, imo, is as it should be.
If it isn't, RoLH needs to get knocked down a bit..which is a bit stupid if you ask me since it's already only weakly more powerful than blacksun (via most reports I've had...)

[Oath]

Originally posted by Rade
Rofl, if you honestly think RoLH has the same damage over time
as a CS then just take a PE and a tank, both standing still and
shooting at each other, and see who drops first. Tank would
have over half health left which, imo, is as it should be.

Test it out.

Really, for a tank to do more dmage, he'd have to be kneeling in front of you and im taking right on your ass in order to hit you.

maybe then yes

CS = awesome damage sure, but fucking BULL SHIT aiming,

ROLH = awesome damage, awesome aiming, awesome rof, awsome range.

tank......cant run fast
pe.....bat outa hell comes to mind.

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Rade
Rofl, if you honestly think RoLH has the same damage over time
as a CS then just take a PE and a tank, both standing still and
shooting at each other, and see who drops first. Tank would
have over half health left which, imo, is as it should be.

Rade dude, I'm not talking shit in my posts.
I have done exactly what you mentioned, Tank vs rifle PE and
Tank vs pistol PE. ROG and RoLH. Face to face. The tank lost both.


//edit: Yes it sounds weird and if anyone would tell me that, I'd
say the tank is shit/has a bad setup. But I swear that's not the
case. The PE was using 1 drug to cast haz1 and 1 drug to use the
gun.

[deac]

Originally posted by death&decay

Rade dude, I'm not talking shit in my posts.
I have done exactly what you mentioned, Tank vs rifle PE and
Tank vs pistol PE. ROG and RoLH. Face to face. The tank lost both.


//edit: Yes it sounds weird and if anyone would tell me that, I'd
say the tank is shit/has a bad setup. But I swear that's not the
case. The PE was using 1 drug to cast haz1 and 1 drug to use the
gun.


going to test this tonight but i have a sneaking feeling its very true.... last nigt a rolh pe did some dmg tests... and omfg i lost health fast :\

[death&decay]

It's weird, just weird.
You could compensate for that by having better movement and
aim. But the fact that they also got more accurate weapons and
run quicker.... That's like they're better in everything.

Classes should have advantages and disadvantages.
The only advantage the tank has now is that they're easier to
play / handle.
And for the rest..... I mentioned that before lol.

If you do dem tests, Make sure the PE has at least 450 HP and
takes 55 from 1 CS burst max.
Those stats can be reached easily.
The tank shouldn't take more than 80 from CS and have about
500-550 HP overall.

Have fun testing, I'd be happy to get the results...

PEACE

[REMUS]

thats so BS me and rade have fights in pp1 and as alot of you know rade is one of the best pe's on pluto, and she regularly has to stealth away becuase i almost kill him, but he heals alot quicker than me so i useually have to run away after 3-4 skirmishs, so technically he nearly always wins lol, but still in a duel enviroment pistol pe's arnt that hard to kill if you have pa 3 on, a good cs, set up and skill level.

pistols dont do much damage, like about 20 dam per hit from bs and about 25 from rolh to me (con 96) liberators are leathal if you have a good aim!

[death&decay]

Maybe it's just the playerskill that makes you win.
Try a face-to-face.
Standing right in front of him, count down and start shooting.
No moving, no healing.

I don't wanna whine about PEs being too strong, nope!
Right now I know only 1 PE that constantly beats me.
That's ok for me but all the tests I have done tell me that there's
something wrong with tanks.

[death&decay]

Originally posted by REMUS

pistols dont do much damage, like about 20 dam per hit from bs and about 25 from rolh to me (con 96) liberators are leathal if you have a good aim!
And right, but look at the frequency and accuracy.

[Cryotchekk]

gah it seems everyone on servers apart from pluto is retards, what i am trying to say is that tanks run fine, u just gotta have skills to do so. why the fuck do u bother wineing about getting ur ass kicked by a pistol pe o.0??? i think rolh pe's are a bit extreme at the mo but i dont make threads bitching about it. gah. i try to improve so they dont gank me so much

and cs would win face to face with rolh. in mb i saw rolh hope pe fenix. fucking around we shot each other. he was at half health when we stopped where as i had like 400hp still, and he is aparently one of the best pe's there and aparently i suck total fucking bollocks. all class's are fine. meh.

[QuantumDelta]

......Cryo, you do realise that, while you back my argument for the moment... that tone is something that makes me want to rip you a new one? :p


Hrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm

[Judge]

I'm with QD on this one. Tanks are good in an OP fight PEs aren't that good. I'm talking pure combat here PSU/Wep lore btw. PEs are good at dueling due to their speed but aren't so good at OP wars where everyone is moving at 2mph due to fucking paraspam, also PEs IMO take alot more skill to set up. Compare DEX setup difficulty on a PE to STR setup difficulty on a tank.

I will re-iterate again what I said before, tanks need a boost, but what you are talking about would just be unrealistic and unfair. You would be amazing at duelling and OP wars. Be good at one yeah, but not both. Look at the story, tanks were bred for mass combat, mass production. There was an idea in another thread about tanks getting less SL out of genreps, so that they can get into combat faster. That would be GREAT, I mean really, thats a perfect idea for tanks which would make them better in OP wars without making them also better at dueling.

Yeah AoE does need a big boost... give tanks another use AoE spamming an area to uncover stealthers etc.... tank true sight sanctum: massive fucking AoE weapons :p

[Dribble Joy]

Originally posted by death&decay

My PE has 480 HP, takes 51 from CS, has capped damage on rolh,
163 shots/min, ag/athl in the 90s. And shelter, and stealth, and a
nice heal. I need 2 drugs for that, and no SA.

Dude.. wtf are your resists at?

I have a capped dmg judge (164 rpm) atl 85, agl 80.
460 hp, 72 energy (78 in armour), 53 fire (98 in armour), 106 xray (26 from bones)
That's with 3 drugs.
I take like 60 dmg from a CS....

[Oath]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Dude.. wtf are your resists at?

I have a capped dmg judge (164 rpm) atl 85, agl 80.
460 hp, 72 energy (78 in armour), 53 fire (98 in armour), 106 xray (26 from bones)
That's with 3 drugs.
I take like 60 dmg from a CS....

lol he wont say:(

tried to get em for my PE.

and you take more like 70.............or at least you did.

[Dribble Joy]

Sucking is depressing...

[Oath]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Sucking is depressing...

I know :(

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
gah it seems everyone on servers apart from pluto is retards, what i am trying to say is that tanks run fine, u just gotta have skills to do so. why the fuck do u bother wineing about getting ur ass kicked by a pistol pe o.0??? i think rolh pe's are a bit extreme at the mo but i dont make threads bitching about it. gah. i try to improve so they dont gank me so much

and cs would win face to face with rolh. in mb i saw rolh hope pe fenix. fucking around we shot each other. he was at half health when we stopped where as i had like 400hp still, and he is aparently one of the best pe's there and aparently i suck total fucking bollocks. all class's are fine. meh.


Lol?
I'm doing this coz I found a balance issue and I wanna talk about
it. I'm not bitchin and I'm not whining, the only PE that constantly
beats me is in my clan so why would I whine or bitch?

And I don't need to bother improving my setup, it's fine the way it
is now. You still didn't get it it's about balance and not skill.
I mentioned ways to prove what I said so wtf is wrong with you?
If you wanna take part in our discussion tell me your point and
try to prove it.

You can take your rants to an own thread of yours I don't wanna
waste my time reading that bullshit.

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Dude.. wtf are your resists at?


With my first setup I took 51 from fire CS and 56 from xray one.
Now that I got xray bones and further improved it it's 52 from
xray. When I was on 4 drugs I had 511 HP but only judge.

We can talk ingame about it if you wanna...

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by death&decay

Lol?
I'm doing this coz I found a balance issue and I wanna talk about
it. I'm not bitchin and I'm not whining, the only PE that constantly
beats me is in my clan so why would I whine or bitch?

And I don't need to bother improving my setup, it's fine the way it
is now. You still didn't get it it's about balance and not skill.
I mentioned ways to prove what I said so wtf is wrong with you?
If you wanna take part in our discussion tell me your point and
try to prove it.

You can take your rants to an own thread of yours I don't wanna
waste my time reading that bullshit.

1, Single PE.
Just one.
And you wonder why I am so heavily opposed to you getting your way in what seems a "tiny" tweak?
I think class balance is slightly more complex than you think dJingo...yes, you're a great fighter, and, yes, there is a problem, and yes, you have spotted, vaguly, what the problem is, however, you have not found the right solution.

Which is why, I always go to the opposite extreme when people talk about "balance", no matter who they are.
Your saying a comment like that, above, is proof enough that the problem is EXTREMELY Minor...


For anyone watching this debate from the shadows of lurkingdom, dJingo as I have said before, is one of the very best Tanks I have Ever, Ever Met.

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Oath
lol he wont say:(

tried to get em for my PE.

and you take more like 70.............or at least you did.

wtf?
You should know better, ask me for anything and you get it you
f00L

[Oath]

Originally posted by death&decay
wtf?
You should know better, ask me for anything and you get it you
f00L


OMFG MANSEX

/edit............i sex j00............and i know dood :)

[death&decay]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
1, Single PE.
Just one.
And you wonder why I am so heavily opposed to you getting your way in what seems a "tiny" tweak?
I think class balance is slightly more complex than you think dJingo...yes, you're a great fighter, and, yes, there is a problem, and yes, you have spotted, vaguly, what the problem is, however, you have not found the right solution.

Which is why, I always go to the opposite extreme when people talk about "balance", no matter who they are.
Your saying a comment like that, above, is proof enough that the problem is EXTREMELY Minor...


For anyone watching this debate from the shadows of lurkingdom, dJingo as I have said before, is one of the very best Tanks I have Ever, Ever Met.


What I want people to see, to know, is that there's something
wrong with tank-PE balance.

My statement, that you quoted, was not aimed at you, it was
aimed at the guy it was aimed at.
I hate bragging about anything, but even more do I hate being
told that I had to improve setups or figure things out just because
I'm talking about balance-issues that I actually tested and thus
have proven.

[death&decay]

I'd be happy if this thread could be closed, it's an endless
discussion and it won't help us in any way.

Thank you

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by death&decay

I'd be happy if this thread could be closed, it's an endless
discussion and it won't help us in any way.

Thank you
I wont parse this over two threads.

I'd like to point out, however, even I couldn't give you total balance without some input from others.

Debating with people does help to bring about the right change, what most people don't realise, is that the right change is very very rarely their idea, and their idea alone.

Tends to be why most of my ideas are modifications of ideas already suggested + a few of my own placed in to accomodate the other changes and the, fairly balanced game as is.

Heh, I'll get my PE tooled up on Pluto and grab a few of the peeps I know there, they'd most probably be willing to test for a while...

[death&decay]

Well yeah that's cool.

CLOSE PLZ LOL

[Rade]

How high level is your PE on pluto btw?

[QuantumDelta]

crapped, but he hasn't got a decent spell on him, nor has he got PP Resistor :p

Almost all of his equipment is borrowed from the Angel known as Varaem :p

[Rade]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
crapped, but he hasn't got a decent spell on him, nor has he got PP Resistor :p

Almost all of his equipment is borrowed from the Angel known as Varaem :p

omg hax, direct me when you get on, we need to duel :)

[Shadow Dancer]

Watch out QD, Rade is gonna take 555 drugs and precast DB sanctum.


:)

[Rade]

IRG! Im never gonna get rid of that rep o_O

[Nish]

My issue with tanks isn't the runspeed or being shit (because they ent, they still > PE's). It's just that the class has been the same for so long, it's still fun for me but not for very long. Just some new toys or some kind of twist to the class would do me.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Nish
My issue with tanks isn't the runspeed or being shit (because they ent, they still > PE's). It's just that the class has been the same for so long, it's still fun for me but not for very long. Just some new toys or some kind of twist to the class would do me.


True. Just because the tank is balanced doesnt' mean he shouldn't get new toys or some fun tweaks.

[Cryotchekk]

more to the... arguement point. i just shot a pe straight up in the face and he died b4 he could kill me with rolh. both his levels were like 15 ranks higher so it werent duel to the fact he was shit.

ive dummed it down a little so u all understand (http://www.strike9.com/file.ashx?path=%2fsluttinator%2ffullsize%2fnump.jpg)

[QuantumDelta]

uhoh, nooblar boy pwned dJingo's point o_O

[y544tji]

TANKS UNITE

lets get our frigin runspeed back with weapon equipped

we are the friggin nerffiest char now so lets do something about it, it blows donkey right now!!!

[MayhemMike]

ur green font is really pissing me off .

[Furion]

@y544tji

ever since i read your first unnerf tank post u have been pissing me off more and more, i wasnt gonna say anything, but here it goes: GET SOME SKILL!!!!

i have played all classes and pvped with all classes, with my friends capped tank i can kill anything but a ppu and hybrid 1 vs 1. tanks arent as slow as u paint em to be.

also, tanks have awesome aiming on their CS, the aim holds for a loooong time, and many of those plasma blobs hit even if the reticle isnt fully closed, while a pistol PE misses a lot of his bullets even with a fully closed reticle......

[Benjie]

Originally posted by Furion
@y544tji

ever since i read your first unnerf tank post u have been pissing me off more and more, i wasnt gonna say anything, but here it goes: GET SOME SKILL!!!!

i have played all classes and pvped with all classes, with my friends capped tank i can kill anything but a ppu and hybrid 1 vs 1. tanks arent as slow as u paint em to be.

also, tanks have awesome aiming on their CS, the aim holds for a loooong time, and many of those plasma blobs hit even if the reticle isnt fully closed, while a pistol PE misses a lot of his bullets even with a fully closed reticle......
tanks need a boost lol where the fuck are you coming from?
You could go up to a drom and say "get some skillz!!!" and it would mean shit coz droms are sux0res7. Tanks sux as that is it, they never used to...

[Furion]

Originally posted by Benjie
tanks need a boost lol where the fuck are you coming from?
You could go up to a drom and say "get some skillz!!!" and it would mean shit coz droms are sux0res7. Tanks sux as that is it, they never used to...

im from norway, kthx :p

this boost tank thing that has emerged the last few days is coming from tanks that obviously cant aim.
keeping the reticule on a person and hitting the mouse button isnt too hard. upping runspeed like y544tji is proposing will infact make it harder for him to pvp with a tank, since he must be the tank with the worst aim here.
u cant really compare a tank with a drom, tanks can take a lot of pounding, and tanks can deal a lot of damage. u just have to know how to use it, thats all.

[Cryotchekk]

Originally posted by Furion
im from norway, kthx :p

this boost tank thing that has emerged the last few days is coming from tanks that obviously cant aim.
keeping the reticule on a person and hitting the mouse button isnt too hard. upping runspeed like y544tji is proposing will infact make it harder for him to pvp with a tank, since he must be the tank with the worst aim here.
u cant really compare a tank with a drom, tanks can take a lot of pounding, and tanks can deal a lot of damage. u just have to know how to use it, thats all.


ive seen plenty of tanks move just as fast with cs out so nothing need to be done.

if kk made it how it used to be there would be threads containing similar centences to there:

'tank and speed and stuff like that'
'omg nerf tank runspeed'
'tank run to fast'
'un nerf freezer pistols'
'nerf tanks speed'

[death&decay]

Originally posted by Cryotchekk
more to the... arguement point. i just shot a pe straight up in the face and he died b4 he could kill me with rolh. both his levels were like 15 ranks higher so it werent duel to the fact he was shit.

ive dummed it down a little so u all understand (http://www.strike9.com/file.ashx?path=%2fsluttinator%2ffullsize%2fnump.jpg)

I can do that with most PEs on uranus.
And what does it prove? Nothing.
What does skillrank mean? Nothing.

Thanks for your post anyways.

[QuantumDelta]

I think dishonest is supposed to be somewhat 1337 :p

[death&decay]

LOL yeah!

He must be so fuckin ubar that if you manage to kill him you're the
ubarararest l33t h4x OMZO serial killin ghetto-pimp of the universe...


I'm wondering if he even used drugs and S/D :wtf: