View Full Version : Tanks... Are they useless now?
Tanks are supposed to be the damage takers, and like the APU the damage dealer.
They run around with a big ass cs or gat that takes up 50% of the screen.
Even with all points in wep lore and wep lore imps, the reticle
doesnt close as fast as other classes.
Word is that buffs set on yourself are more powerful than those that are set on others. so... it being that you are fighting a PE or Spy who specialize in combat, their buffs xray bones and x ray suit vs a xray cs... well dmg = 35-45 per burst. Of course the spy has a RoG, his deleflector/shelter and a heal on.... the tank... well speed and nothing but health for the buffed enemy to chip at.
Anyone else frustrated with this? I'm talking PvP.
as much as the devs want nc to be a team based game, lets face it. reality of it all is that pvp is usually one on one. if the enemy has a ppu and i have no ppu, that means im not fighting.
Can someone convice me not to delete my capped tank and go with a pistol PE or a ROG spy... i myself dont see a use for tanks anymore. Without a PPU... tanks are usless IMO. tl 3 heal is worthless for a tank and they cant even use heal sanctum without a gimp. medkits? lmao? space suit PA? Gimp.
why do you like your tank?
I agree Tanks are currently in the shits right now.
I still like my Tank just cuz I'm too lazy to re-roll and make a Monk, :D. Nah...like you said Tanks still take decent damage and give out decent damage, it just seems every other class got a boost with new weapons, PA's, etc. and Tanks really got nothing and they overran them.
IMO PA is not make you a gimp. I use PA3 and I like my setup better with it on then off. I think if KK just made AoE weapons more powerful and added in a few more Tank rares (gat, flamer) and made PA's lose DEX instead of CON again Tank's could be right back in the heat of things.
neophotographer
29-10-03, 09:27
use a fire modded CS? lol. well, I only PVP'ed on fight night and against other tanks and stuff I tended to fair pretty well. :) *shrugs* haven't played since they got the xray bones, but am thinking about coming back in soon. :) so it could be very well that they are pretty useless. I'd try a fire CS and see how much dmg it did to someone with X-ray bones first before pronouncnig tanks to be useless.
Stacey
Shadow Dancer
29-10-03, 09:29
I think
1.Tank aoe should get a significant boost
2.I think in terms of variety apu and tank should get smilir rares. I mean in terms of what type of damage. Since they both specialize in damage. For example I think the tank should get either a rare flamer or a rare cannon like CS but shoots packets of fire instead of energy. So you could mod it with x-ray and it'll do fire/x-ray.
3.I like kramer's idea about making heal spells con based. SO you heal alot more with higher con. Currently a apu/ppu team is better than tank/ppu in everyway because with ppu buffs the apu has same defense as a tank or slightly less. But with this change, the tank/ppu team will have a unique advantage over the apu/ppu team. And the tank will have his rightful place as damage "soaker" or taker in op wars or group battles.
4.sex
neophotographer
29-10-03, 09:36
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I think
3.I like kramer's idea about making heal spells con based. SO you heal alot more with higher con. Currently a apu/ppu team is better than tank/ppu in everyway because with ppu buffs the apu has same defense as a tank or slightly less. But with this change, the tank/ppu team will have a unique advantage over the apu/ppu team. And the tank will have his rightful place as damage "soaker" or taker in op wars or group battles.
yeah but then you're going to get the complaining from the PPU's that a tank's able to heal themself better. lol. *shrugs* you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't always please everyone right?
Stacey
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I think
1.Tank aoe should get a significant boost
2.I think in terms of variety apu and tank should get smilir rares. I mean in terms of what type of damage. Since they both specialize in damage. For example I think the tank should get either a rare flamer or a rare cannon like CS but shoots packets of fire instead of energy. So you could mod it with x-ray and it'll do fire/x-ray.
3.I like kramer's idea about making heal spells con based. SO you heal alot more with higher con. Currently a apu/ppu team is better than tank/ppu in everyway because with ppu buffs the apu has same defense as a tank or slightly less. But with this change, the tank/ppu team will have a unique advantage over the apu/ppu team. And the tank will have his rightful place as damage "soaker" or taker in op wars or group battles.
4.sex
Pretty much nailed it (especially #4 :D)
PS: Why did KK decide to have Tank PA lose CON instead of DEX in the first place?
Shadow Dancer
29-10-03, 09:46
Originally posted by neophotographer
yeah but then you're going to get the complaining from the PPU's that a tank's able to heal themself better. lol. *shrugs* you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't always please everyone right?
Stacey
Depends.
KK could either
1.Leave the heal the way it is right now for 45 con, and then increase the power of the heal as the con is higher. That way ppu's defense is 100% the same.
2.Change it so that the healing rate right now can only be achieved with 100 con. And then lower it as the con is lower. Who knows this might balance ppus. :p
But either way, I could give a shit what ppus think. :rolleyes:
neophotographer
29-10-03, 09:50
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
But either way, I could give a shit what ppus think. :rolleyes:
good point. lol. ;) :lol:
Stacey
[i]1.Leave the heal the way it is right now for 45 con, and then increase the power of the heal as the con is higher. That way ppu's defense is 100% the same.[/B]
You want to boost PE's?
Shadow Dancer
29-10-03, 10:06
Originally posted by DartVader
You want to boost PE's?
This would give the PE a slight boost in TL 3 heal power. I don't think it would be unbalancing.........................................
sanityislost
29-10-03, 11:20
Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk i LOVE these ideas tanks really need some loving about now. 5stars and a lil furry animal
Make medkits CON based? Or at least worth using...
the tanks sure need new weapons and a damage boost
- they do too little damage
- they are easy to hit cuz of big hitbox
- theyre too slow with weopons out
- they should get new rares
- it sux when ur gun fails in a lag tanks have this prob really
any1 knows how many % u get slower by taking out a cs ? can it
be undone by high agility ? it should really
I agree. Whilst tank is my favourite char I am not playing the tank any longer because it seems to be the weakest char of all. I keep on getting killed and nothing is fun any more, i am just too weak as a tank even though lvl 55 with Marine, cs etc
I now have an APU and compared with the tank I am 'flying high'. Playing is fun again.
I hear from others that have spies that they are having a great time too and I watched pe's soloing wb and they seem to be doing good too.
Tank is just not a viable char any longer. It is supposed to be so strong, ROFL a little low level bald female monk in a frock can beat a tank nowadays
and anyway if you play a tank you only see half of your screen most of the time because in a rediculous way the stupid weapon covers half the screen, I see no reason at all why that should be and why that can't be reduced
Originally posted by NeoChick
I agree. Whilst tank is my favourite char I am not playing the tank any longer because it seems to be the weakest char of all. I keep on getting killed and nothing is fun any more, i am just too weak as a tank even though lvl 55 with Marine, cs etc
I feel your pain!!! WTF is up with that? spies are owning what is supposed to be the retired front line battle hardened soldier in the war of wars.
I now have an APU and compared with the tank I am 'flying high'. Playing is fun again.
Yep thats what i did too. The only way to stay interested and keep me paying to play this game, was to join the monkeycron bandwagon
I hear from others that have spies that they are having a great time too and I watched pe's soloing wb and they seem to be doing good too.
LoL how many of you have seen tanks solo'ing high level mobs anymore? The nerfbat beatdown the tank got was way to excessive
Tank is just not a viable char any longer. It is supposed to be so strong, ROFL a little low level bald female monk in a frock can beat a tank nowadays
hahahahaha looks like im not the only one who got beat up by a girl :p
and anyway if you play a tank you only see half of your screen most of the time because in a rediculous way the stupid weapon covers half the screen, I see no reason at all why that should be and why that can't be reduced OMG this is the most frustrating thing of the whole game. Playing a APU that all you see is a hand to having half you screen dossapear due to a cannon. :mad:
death&decay
29-10-03, 12:05
Wow... THAT topic again
Tanks are not useless if played right.
I'll always love my tank, maybe it's a nostalgic thing. Been playing a tank as my primary char since beta. OK so I got a PPU/spy/pe now but my tank is and always will be my baby!
But I'd like some loving. I am managing some good duels tho, however as soon as a monk comes along I'm pretty much toast!
Most of the above ideas are sound. Just need a little pick-me-up for PvP. Feel like I can help turn the course of a battle rather than just die to a monk in 5 seconds! (well maybe still die but take one of the buggers with me! ;)).
DjSKum
|edit| @Death your right there not completely useless but you have to admit that we need a little love. Tanks have been neglected a bit of late. The proof is in how many tanks have re-rolled. You can't say that everythings OK. Everyones got new toys except tanks. The armour reqs was a good idea but we need a little more.
death&decay
29-10-03, 12:22
Yes indeed, tanks could use an overall performance-boost.
But I hate people saying tanks are useless now just because they
can't gank anyone with ease. I still manage to beat most of the
PEs I encounter and also APUs are killable.
A drugged-up PE that's really maxxed out in everything and is played
by a skilled man is unkillable for a tank. An APU that keeps some
distance aswell.
That's a bit sad tho but there aren't many of those.
But why are there billions of whiningthreads about that topic, this
can't be it really.
No one is saying they are useless.
What i was asking is, ARE they useless.
Do you have any suggestions? Anything else is just spam.
I agree whole heartedly about this forum being ridden with whiners. I never said nerf or buff, I'm asking for reasons to not delete my now obsolete tank. I'm talking PvP not PvM.
I want to be convinced that tanks are still a force to reckoned with in PvP. A capped tank has not use for PvM any longer, not unless you are talking Epic runs or Events.
Can you please define what you mean by being played right? Help me be a better tank.
I guess what I'm asking for is assistance. Since this isnt a true hearted fps where 2 pvp'ers are same everything and actual reflex and aim skill are the core to winning, i need to know what i can do to make my capped tank formidable and not frag meat for the other classes that have been boosted. IMO, tank nerfs and Spy PE boost = roles being reversed. The tank is about as powerful as the spy was a few months ago. Tanks are supposed to be as powerful if not more powerful than a APU. That is their purpose. They are goon squad, during RP it was the tank that won the war.
I agree even tho I have slightly more trouble than you with APU's ;-) Need to finally max that con ;-) But a small boost would be sufficient.
I've actually had alot of fun PKing with my tank lately. Still can't kill Rith tho (capped, drugged and skilled ;))...
But that's just duels. What about OP wars. I'm a bit of a loose end there... Need something to bring tanks back to being useful in OP wars.
DjSKum
Originally posted by djskum
But that's just duels. What about OP wars. I'm a bit of a loose end there... Need something to bring tanks back to being useful in OP wars.
DjSKum
*cough (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80372)*
Original monk
29-10-03, 12:59
its much easier: give tanks new imps and decent weapons, nah a cs alone wont do and a speedgatling does shit at all to a pe, a pe is a jack of all trades, a tank should kill it in 2 bursts but when them PE's tart wearing resistchips and can use crazy shelters and stuff :/
its lame, when the PE are getting stronger then the tanks (like its now happening) then i think theres sumthing wrong bigtime :/
a PE can even stealth away :/ i dont see any tanks stealth away :/
tanks are pushed behind, all the other classes evolve, and 1 higher level of tankPA wont do the job KK ...
but serieus: tanks need crazy chips and even crazier new weapons :/
Tanks used to own, they could get 3 stars etc, now they are shitchars, maybe good to kill a spy now and then yeah :P
Originally posted by Archeus
*cough (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80372)*
I voted yes ;-)
@ Original, yes yes and yes. You'll get flamed for that tho. Peeps used to see a tank and fear us! Now they just laugh, spy's and PE's will just stealth away if it gets too hot and APU's 9/10 will pwn a tank! PPU's well I won't even go there.
DjSKum
Just on the comment about low damage from an Xray modded weapon to a Spy with his Xray PA on. Well that is the whole point of the armour ain't it.
Pull your fire modded weapon out and see the spy drop like a stone.
Chose the weapon that suits the opponent ........
I don't play a tank but they seem to be a lot of fun to level when compared to a Spy ......... you get stuck in , have a laugh .
Whereas a spy is the cautious, stay out of harms reach type of character because a change in the wind will kill me .:D
well i wouldnt say tanks are useless, tanks can take on any of the other classes 1v1 if you are decent(except PPUs).
before i lommed my capped tank to melee(and even after) i can still kill people, the problem is that when the enemy has a ppu the tanks fun is all over, but then apart from the stealthers its t he same for anyone.
its the op wars where tanks have no place at the moment, but them PEs and spies have never really had a place at ops(except for hacking)
hell on my new level 49 heavy tank(yup thats right i have 2 tanks;) )i was faced against a known pker at the MB, yet just using a TPC it was him with his rare raygun that was running away from me, so tanks are far from useless, it really does depend on how you play them.
though i blame parashock and damage boost for all my tank problem:p
but still i enjoy playing tank now more than monk, monks just suck to me, i have a apu but rarely log him on, was more fun as a hybrid back in the day, but tanks are where its at for me
Original monk
29-10-03, 13:27
Originally posted by djskum
@ Original, yes yes and yes. You'll get flamed for that tho. Peeps used to see a tank and fear us! Now they just laugh, spy's and PE's will just stealth away if it gets too hot and APU's 9/10 will pwn a tank! PPU's well I won't even go there.
Im allready waiting for them flames, probably of PE's (who are majorly overpowerd compared to a tank). LOOK: a PE is a noobchar, its sumthing you start out with, its not skilled in a certain profession, and it never will be.
the moment it is now a PE owns a tank only because of its buffs and thats about it, nice KK give em some more powerarmours and let em use ROLH and then we have stupid situations about PE's making fun at tanks yust because a PE is more agile, he does more then enough damage for the jack of all trades he is and he has crazy healing and sheltering abilities, so please start boosting them tanks and give em new stuff so they can atleast kill a PE in a few shots (them fuckers stealth away and start healing like crazy behind a corner yust to turn up again 2 seconds later being anoying and shooting in youre back) how do i know this ? because i have one of them anoying PE's myself that likes to kill monkey's and tanks with hes full artifact uranium laser silenced libby, maybe a bit off blacksun loving and the jobs done :P
Im not calling nerf the PE im YELLING : BOOST the tank, havent we waited long enough for that ? and i want 3 stars on my tank, i refuse to reroll my tank cause a tank should OWN in pvp, at this moment they get laughed at ....
Ow yeah and about gammabones: this sucks bigtime: how the heck could i know when i modded most of my weapons with xray that there where going to come some gammabones (str 23 to 33 or so, so that almost everyone can use em) :/ i want some str 23 to 33 firebones also, you fucked up my weapons KK ....
Or make a modremover like i suggested before, so you can remove damagemods/ultimamods and put in new ones ....
death&decay
29-10-03, 13:27
Originally posted by WebShock
I guess what I'm asking for is assistance. Since this isnt a true hearted fps where 2 pvp'ers are same everything and actual reflex and aim skill are the core to winning, i need to know what i can do to make my capped tank formidable and not frag meat for the other classes that have been boosted.
Reflex, aimskill and movementskill still are the core to winning.
I was on as PE few days ago and fought a few other PEs, and I
won. Not a big deal until I realized that I didn't have ANY armor on. Don't let the enemies hit you by dodging and twitching like a
chicken on E. Have a good aiming aswell, try to have at least 50%
of your bursts hit the enemy.
If you fight other peeps who have good aim too, you need a good
setup. If you take more than 100 damage from 1 CS burst then
you're shit. Try to max out all resists and use mixed armor.
There are quite a few skills that you don't need for PVP, don't
raise em. Specialize.
Practise pvp and duelling in NF. A lot.
I usually don't tell my resist and armor setups and stuff, so the
above is all I can do for ya.
Originally posted by djskum
I voted yes ;-)
@ Original, yes yes and yes. You'll get flamed for that tho. Peeps used to see a tank and fear us! Now they just laugh, spy's and PE's will just stealth away if it gets too hot and APU's 9/10 will pwn a tank! PPU's well I won't even go there.
DjSKum
Tanks ph34r my tl8 holy parashock bolt.
Which is really sad tanks should go pfft at something that crappy hitting them.
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 13:31
I echo my thoughts in Archeus thread.
Tanks Have the best defence in the game outside the PPU when the PPU is around, and when they're not the Tank is barely significantly lower than the PE, a Tank will also have more HP than any other character on the battle ground.
Tanks ALSO Do the second most PvP Damage in a fight, the first most, if you consider the SHARP RoF Drop on Holy Lightning after you exstinguish the first mana barrage.
I still pretty much stand by "Tanks are spoilt" they have a problem in that they are somewhat predictable in terms of damage... cursed soul....always, but, seriously, other than that, and their AoE being significantly underpowered, Tanks themselves have nearly nothing wrong with them.
Tanks were disposable mass produced troops in the war, they weren't "'ard as nails" they were "fire off volley of ammo" "reload" "dead before reload...." "mate fire off volley of ammo....dead..." "fire off volley of ammo...yeay we killed it."
If you read it again, the storyline shows in several ways how Tanks won the war in SHEER NUMBERS not abilities.
As for the Tank ingame, I remember TankoCron and being one of the only PEs.
I remember the intelligence of most of those Tanks and I know why I beat most Tanks when I fight them.
DeathandDecay over there is an _EXTREMELY_ Good Tank, it's people like him who I do have to drug for, it's people like him who make me realise people bitching about underpowered tanks are either;
A) Trying to get an edge on everyone.
B) n00blar.
Why?
PEs have to drug their asses off to beat the best Tanks.
Capped PE vs Capped Tank - Tank doesn't need to do anything except cast a few buffs and draw his CS and he's ready to go.
PE has to;
Paretemol Forte/Destrosol Forte/Whiteflash/Redflash+ anything else.
Blessed Def
Shelter
BR3
PC1
Spy1
PSI Shield (??)
Heal Sanctum
And, at that point, these fighters become fairly equal.
If Tanks started drugging and using those drugs to augment their setup they would probably find themselves starting to win again.
I drug on every character - except my tank.
Why?
Most Tanks are lazy fuckers who can't be bothered getting ready for a fight _PROPERLY_ "I have good CON..uhuh.."
My PE has;
Great CON Tweaked over months.
Well Balanced INT Tweaked for Combat.
Well Balanced PSI Tweaked for High Defence Sacrificing Mana.
Well Balanced DEX Sacrificing a LITTLE Speed for a little damage.
Great STR.
Tanks work on their CON and then don't think about anything else....
So why the hell should they be "balanced" if tanks aren't going to put the remotest amount of effort in ?
Sadly, they almost, already are, it's just that Drugging PEs are the norm, because it's almost impossible for a Good PE to beat a Good APU or Tank without them.
THAT is sad and unbalanced.
Not that I don't think Tanks are spoilt mind... :rolleyes:
What the hell do capped tanks have to drug for?
All i can think of is pa4 which isnt worth it and read what I said to all that on the pole thread qd.
And tanks arent like where they use traits from all classes to augment themselves they are really stuck in their rut.
And death and decay is one of the best tanks out there and one of the only decent ones playing uranus atm.
well not all tanks are spoilt, and although the story line you quote is correct, its not like you can really take anything fro the story line and apply it to rigedly.
on the point of drugging, i on occasions do drug up with my tank taking Paretemol Forte,Whiteflash and occasionaly Redflash to boost cons health speed etc just to get that bit extra, sometimes destrol forte if i want that extra bit of weapon lore.
So your happy with Monkocron then I take it...
I think it's sad that I'm one of the only sad bastards left that still brings a tank to an OP war, but hey we're so spoilt that no one wants to play a tank anymore...
DjSKum
death&decay
29-10-03, 13:40
Originally posted by Original monk
Ow yeah and about gammabones: this sucks bigtime: how the heck could i know when i modded most of my weapons with xray that there where going to come some gammabones (str 23 to 33 or so, so that almost everyone can use em) :/ i want some str 23 to 33 firebones also, you fucked up my weapons KK ....
Sorry dude, no offence, but you're being a despicable whiner here.
Gamma bones give a slight boost of xray resist, PvP setups only
contain head, arm and maybe chest so that's 36 in xxr...
That's nothing you need to be worried of.
And how can you say KK fucked your guns up by bringing those
bones into the game, that's hilarious. Could say the same bout
resist belts, duranit armor and all new stuff that came up recently.
OMG you fucked my ppu up coz now there's holy antibuff :wtf:
OMG you fucked poison beam up coz there's antidote O_o
Don't hate KK for putting new stuff into the game, it's not fair.
Sorry
I bring my tank to opwars but only for using AE when attacking I usually have my monk logged off nearby for when combat gets close quarters or for when my monk dies and the dumbass ppus dont ress me cos im not in their clan.
yes but you talk about duels... oustide those the pe will just stealth away if he have any brains, heal and come back and waste the poor tank
Stealth is a huge advantage.... tanks die more than any other class these days...
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 13:44
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
What the hell do capped tanks have to drug for?
All i can think of is pa4 which isnt worth it and read what I said to all that on the pole thread qd.
And tanks arent like where they use traits from all classes to augment themselves they are really stuck in their rut.
And death and decay is one of the best tanks out there and one of the only decent ones playing uranus atm.
All I can really say is that I regard Tanks like Djingo as targets that come before me on equal terms. (My PE).
And, if I do not watch what I'm doing, those Tanks whipe my character out in a few seconds (Djingo has hit me with 100% accuracy before...every single plasma bolt he fired hit and there was absolutely NOTHING I could possibly have done to either dodge their fire or out damage him to survive).
"Monkocron" ???
I play every class, you know what I know?
Tanks and PEs can _solo_ APU/PPU Teams.
I do it more regularly on my PE, but I've done it at least once on my Tank.
_SOLO_
If you can't see how you benefit from a PPU (That knows how to properly work with a tank....it's somewhat different from PPUing with an APU....) to win, I pity you.
The sad part is, beyond the need for slightly more varied attacks I can't see a single thing wrong with Tanks, at all.
And Cursed Soul itself is still overpowered (5% ...and Lupus admits this too).
edit;
Deac, my Tanks heal is rigged so that it is close to as efficient as my PEs, it's constructed as well, when a PE Stealths I get a significant amount of HP Back, and that's not even suggesting bringing medis too..
Don't know about you guys, though.
My Tank like my other characters is pretty tricked out, it's just that he's the only guy I don't drug on, so his performance is permanently steady, even if it's about 5% less than my PEs 100.
well tanks are boring full stop, they hav had 1 or 2 new bits content like the melee power suit + speed cannon (but even kramer uses one of those!!!)
PSI monks have had loads of new spells
Spys + PE's hav have loads of new pistols and rifles
now dont get me wrong tanks arnt useless, far from it, the only class im pants at dueling are PSI monks (both apu and ppu well but everyones shit at fighting ppus :P ) and even then thats becuase i havnt practiced dueling many of the best APU's on pluto.
tanks are easy to use but hard to master, any good tank will tell you that + next to a PPU they are the hardest and most expensive to set up proberbly
death&decay
29-10-03, 13:48
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Not that I don't think Tanks are spoilt mind... :rolleyes:
Sorry m8 you're just wrong.
You said tanks have the best defence drugless.
The lowest amount of damage my tank takes from a CS was 70.
My PE takes 51 without drugs. Sure the tank has a few more
hitpoints, but that's what drugs can compensate for. There's
nothing a tank could drug up for. Not even speed.
I mentioned that before if you have tank and PE standing face to
face shooting each other, the tank drops dead first.
That means the damage/defence ratio of PEs is higher.
Sure, shelter and deflect wear off. *cough* stealthtool *cough*
Also PEs take way more shots from HL before they die.
You can't say tanks have the best defence, it ain't right :p
death&decay
29-10-03, 13:54
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
All I can really say is that I regard Tanks like Djingo as targets that come before me on equal terms. (My PE).
And, if I do not watch what I'm doing, those Tanks whipe my character out in a few seconds (Djingo has hit me with 100% accuracy before...every single plasma bolt he fired hit and there was absolutely NOTHING I could possibly have done to either dodge their fire or out damage him to survive).
That made my day, now I feel overpowered :D
//edit: You could have stealthed and attacked me from a greater
distance :lol:
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 13:54
Originally posted by death&decay
Sorry m8 you're just wrong.
You said tanks have the best defence drugless.
The lowest amount of damage my tank takes from a CS was 70.
My PE takes 51 without drugs. Sure the tank has a few more
hitpoints, but that's what drugs can compensate for. There's
nothing a tank could drug up for. Not even speed.
I mentioned that before if you have tank and PE standing face to
face shooting each other, the tank drops dead first.
That means the damage/defence ratio of PEs is higher.
Sure, shelter and deflect wear off. *cough* stealthtool *cough*
Also PEs take way more shots from HL before they die.
You can't say tanks have the best defence, it ain't right :p
I said the Tank has the best natural defence.
The Best Defence when a PPU is around (because of their natural defence), and that they do the most damage over an extended period of time.
.....Which is all true.
As for HL damage....err.... my Tank takes more than my PE most of the time but it seems my PE loves to get the wrong end of random damage.... (My PE has/will die in 5-7 shots of HL, my Tank takes 7-9, simply because my PE gets hit HARD by random damage and my Tank doesn't seem to...either that or somethin's fecked up...(this is with shelter...))
Meh, Tanks have the best NATURAL, STABLE Defence.
If PEs Stealth Tanks who have worked on their character a lot, will be able to take advantage of that, because a PE Cannot heal while he is stealthed, a Tank can....
QD jingo is one of the only real tanks left on the server.
Almost everyone else has tanks just cos they have every type of char.
And Ive watched the likes of him doob barar and vicious play(especially vicious) and have never been able to figure out how they hit like they hit and how they dodge like they dodge.
Atm Im getting better stats on my cs then vicious ever did and he can still hit better then I can.
I admit I suck when combat is 1v1 always have and am still trying to figure out how to be good 1v1 but most tanks just plain arent as good as those guys and never will be its a fact.
Tanks need that extra little bit of skill to be viable where as pes and monks dont, sure it helps but isnt essential as both groups can weave and dodge and hit with ease anyway where as tanks its a skill to be able to weave and dodge and not completely miss.
death&decay
29-10-03, 13:59
Well yeah, mistook you then. When being PPU-buffed tanks got
the advantage, aight.
Your tank taking more HLs just seems weird to me gotta compare
setups again lol.
You can't heal while being stealthed, true.
But you can run like hell when you're stealthed to find a safe spot
where you can heal. and with heal, sanct and a medkit you're back
online waaay too quick. faster than any tank heh.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
[B] (My PE has/will die in 5-7 shots of HL, my Tank takes 7-9, simply because my PE gets hit HARD by random damage and my Tank doesn't seem to...either that or somethin's fecked up...(this is with shelter...))
Rawr i know many pes that can take +-10 hls.... (evs, maximus) My tank can take like what? 5-7?
and with harder aiming on tanks its hard to keep up the dmg over time....(sure the real good guys like snake eye :P can hit almost every shot) ....
but with my apu i just click then move click then move is just soo much easier! PEs have the added bounus of good psu and that means they can tl3 heal and defl easier... my tank can cast defl slowly once then i need to wait for mana o0
ps have done some resists tests... with a storm laser.... 26 is the mini a tank can get from it... (xray or pure nrg) monks land at 20 and im sure as hell pes get around that too.... now change the storm laser for a hl and you will see a massive diffrence in dmg
I think tanks need a boost. Hard to say what type of boost, but they definately need something.
To me they are one big fat PA covered target. Even those that dont wear PA get slowed down so much by CS that its hard to miss them as a pistoler.
I think they should make the Heavy weapon slow down = the rifle slow down.
Not more, cos KK are making tanks the most useless char to have.
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 14:07
Originally posted by deac
Rawr i know many pes that can take +-10 hls.... (evs, maximus) My tank can take like what? 5-7?
and with harder aiming on tanks its hard to keep up the dmg over time....(sure the real good guys like snake eye :P can hit almost every shot) ....
but with my apu i just click then move click then move is just soo much easier! PEs have the added bounus of good psu and that means they can tl3 heal and defl easier... my tank can cast defl slowly once then i need to wait for mana o0
Tssh...please, HL is not a weapon that you should test on people anymore.
It's random damage is whacky.
Let me put it this way;
I've been hit by HL buff and armor nekkid and only taken 80 damage.
I've been hit by HL with Armor, and Shelter on and Taken 99 damage.
I've been hit by HL with Armor and Shelter and PSI Shield on and Taken 105 damage.
.....It's stupid.
@ Fang ~ Yeah maybe, but some tanks are already beyond that in terms of speed, it is hard to say what they need but arse if it's gonna be more attack or significantly more defence....
Originally posted by deac
ps have done some resists tests... with a storm laser.... 26 is the mini a tank can get from it... (xray or pure nrg) monks land at 20 and im sure as hell pes get around that too.... now change the storm laser for a hl and you will see a massive diffrence in dmg
LOL
No offence Deac but if a monk is getting less damage than a Tank from a weapon without buffs, the tank is doing something very, very wrong.
Also advice;
Use Sniper Rifles or Laser Pistols when doing damage tests.
Yesa, PEs are the only class in the game outside PPUs who get less damage from a single weapon than PEs.
THIS IS NOT AS SIGNIFICANT AS YOU THINK IT IS.
Post Buff most PEs have 400 HP *MAX* (If they have more they have weak resists or slow runspeed, or both...), Tanks UNBUFFED have 530.
.....wtf.......
I wouldnt mind having Tanks defence outshining PE defence. For
example if Psi was removed from the game. But then PEs would
need something else to make up for it, perhaps not 100% combat
oriented but some new toys thats all. As it stands now however
Tanks are definately not useless. They are one of the most
powerful chars in PvM, OP wars and duels. Nowadays between
PEs, Spies, Tanks and APUs its the person who has the most skill
and the best setup who wins, its no longer predetermined by
what class to play. I cant help but get the feeling that Tanks that
whine about being underpowered just dont like the feeling of not
being the better than everyone else without even trying.
death&decay
29-10-03, 14:08
Hush your mouth Fang, don't call me useless..
Don't make me eat you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
//edit: But yeah, basically you're right :D
Originally posted by Rade
I wouldnt mind having Tanks defence outshining PE defence. For
example if Psi was removed from the game. But then PEs would
need something else to make up for it, perhaps not 100% combat
oriented but some new toys thats all.
What about a stealth tool? Oh you've already got one ;-)
DjSKum
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 14:16
If Stealth is your only, complaint.
Why don't we remove Stealth I?
And Up the Reqs on Stealth II.
As one of the 'real' tanks.
I'm pissed, they got lower defence than a *AHEM* PE *AHEM* and if im entirely honest, my fucking spy last's longer than my tank
now, though im outa practice a lot, im no noob, ive kicked almost every tank i knows ass (cept djingo o_O, mart doob and the like)
however, after finally capping my pistol PE (who's cons setup is shitty bollocks crap) i take can more damage, i give more damage, i have the ability to heal during a fight, i can stealth and hide, i can rebuff during a fight (if a tank TRIED it he'd fall over faster than the chars in the japanese cartoons).
To say tanks have a better defence NATURALLY is Bs, even if a tank pumps every drug kjnown to man into his system, he still cant rival the defensive power of the PE, and tbh nor can he ever rival the Attacking power of a GOOD pe *looks at djingo*
bringing PPUs into the deal just fuck it up even more, without being big headed, im good, im not great *i will be again heh* But, im certainly not bad, and it takes forever to kill my mate haggisman, only for him to start fucking healing during a fight, SO, theoretically (as he did it five times - he has tank Hp over 500...........multiply that by 5.......2500hp, add shelter, drugs resist potions a good cons setup.......now divide that by maybe the 40 - 60 he takes from Cs....... so about 41 to 60 hits needed to kil lthe fuxxor.............against what, i take 20 from blacksun, i have 500 or so hp so bout 25 hits to pwn me, add into that the ROF difference between CS and blacksun, take into account RARELY do 3 never mind 4 cs shots hit, how often does a blacksun miss?
NEVER!
SO, to say a tank has better defence than a pe, is just sad.
and no, as i always stated, tanks are fine, they just got the raw end of the stick recently, specially with no new equipment for them :( :rolleyes: nm, i'll still kill you all, cos im sexy!
/EDIT i used pistol PEs AGAIN cos they are getting more frequent than fookin monks now,
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
If Stealth is your only, complaint.
Why don't we remove Stealth I?
And Up the Reqs on Stealth II.
I didn't say that. Rade wanted more toys if tanks got a boost. I was mearly stating that other classes have been having all the toys lately! Stealth being the most significant.
DjSKUm
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 14:21
Oath I really don't want this to sound offencive or anything cuz you're a cool dude and stuff but .... it sounds to me like both your characters have extremely shitty setups...and..............how in the hell is your PE even possibly doing more pvp damage than your tank........?
PvM - Yes, Liberator > Most weapons.
PvP ............. ????
It's a very very different world PvM and PvP, mainly because of two words.
Burst Bonus....
Dj - I used to never use Stealth.
You can ask most of my opponents on the battle field, I refused to do it.
This changed when I started fighting Syndicate, because they brought 1000000000000000000000000000000x monks to a op fight and I just can't be fucked to deal with it so I do my shit from range, if they're gonna be cheap I can be too.
death&decay
29-10-03, 14:24
Originally posted by Rade
I cant help but get the feeling that Tanks that
whine about being underpowered just dont like the feeling of not
being the better than everyone else without even trying.
That's true.
And it's the reason why billions of people start "OMG TANK TEH UBAR USELESS" Threads.
can't do nothing :rolleyes:
QuantumDelta
29-10-03, 14:27
Originally posted by death&decay
That's true.
And it's the reason why billions of people start "OMG TANK TEH UBAR USELESS" Threads.
can't do nothing :rolleyes:
I'll try explain this again...then I'm out...hope it works properly...heh
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
When based on natural 1on1 situations...
The Maximum operational capacity of the PE (including drugs) is balanced with the Maximum operational capacity of the Tank.
In turn, the Maximum operational capacity of the Rifle Spy, is balanced with the Maximum operational capacity of the PE, or the Tank. (It's just that the tank doesn't REALLY need drugs to get close to this theoretical maximum).
The APU is mostly balanced with these classes at their operational maximum as well, it's Energy damage is very slightly too high, and it's Fire and Poison damage is too low, in ranged situations the APUs slight "Overpowered nature" is also visible.
Ignoring Parashock and Damage Boost for the time being, as soon as you introduce the PPU this happens;
APUs become the most powerful of all the classes(100%).
Tanks become the second most powerful of all the classes(90%).
Spies become the third most powerful of all the classes(80%).
PEs become the weakest(75%).
Please note APU and PPU are seperate classes for the purpose of this explanation, the reasoning for the above statements follows thusly;
PEs, who were previously balanced with the other classes, loses their defencive "advantage" from PSI, since Everyone has the same level of PSI defence, Natural CON, Armor defence, and Character Offence become the most important things available to the character itself.
APUs, who are naturally the weakest defencive character at their operational maximum (spies, stfu, this is true, if you think otherwise you NEED To go look at your character again), are naturally the strongest character in the game.
Their defence has just been boosted by 45% of whatever the remaining defence malus was between them and the 76% mark of all resists, Including Holy Heal they become very difficult to kill, and therefore due to their massive explosive damage become by far the most effective fighter to couple with a PPU.
Tanks, who are naturally(armor/con) the highest defencive character with good offence gain the defencive ground they would otherwise have lost on the PE / Spy due to their PSI.
This means that, if they could take advantage of their TSG/CS with holy heal running on them, they would be even more difficult to kill than an APU and would be able to naturally provide a LOT of damage output, though not quite as powerful as the APU.
Spies, who are naturally(traditionally) a defencively weak class that can actually drug for Shelter and use Deflector proficiently, lose the small PSI bonus they gained (drugging for shelter), on the tank, because of buffs, however still have a decently respectable arsenal of weaponry to use at high level (Disruptor, RoG, PE, RoLH, FL(...this is dependant on situation), and a few other of the good DEX Weapons), keeping them above the PE.
PEs, who are naturally average at defence(again CON/Armor), now totally cap out their resists in terms of the 76% rule, however, are still far exceeded by Tanks, and almost equalled by APUs(the main difference there being HLT), however, only have semi-respectable RoLH damage, Liberator, Pain Easer, Judge or RoG. ~ While RoG/RoLH/Liberator are respectable, Lib's aiming is bugged, RoG doesn't compete with CS when the defence of he characters is so close to equal, and RoLH is still too high a weapon to get the best stats on unless you're willing to make fairly drastic defencive cuts.
This means, that quite naturally, before Damage Boost or Parashock, or anything else is brought into the equation, PPUs make APUs the dominant class in the op fight.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Oath I really don't want this to sound offencive or anything cuz you're a cool dude and stuff but .... it sounds to me like both your characters have extremely shitty setups...and..............how in the hell is your even possibly doing more pvp damage than your tank........?
PvM - Yes, Liberator > Most weapons.
PvP ............. ????
It's a very very different world PvM and PvP, mainly because of two words.
Burst Bonus....
Lol, no offense taken, but, My pe's COn is Shit, i simply dont have time to work it out, however, my tanks setup is on a par with Djingos (although not the same one i might add)
Cs ticklers me, well, takes bout 65 -75 off me depending on the mod, i dont wear Pa, but im slower than a 12 ton elephant thats been drugged and hung upside down by its scrotum.
Blacksun, like i said does bout 20 - 30 to me per shot, (possibly less) tbh the blacksun does more damage to me than the ROLH for some reason.
My PE doesnt use a libby, in fact currently he has 0 rares, oath is kitted out with all thge sexy stuff, wich boosts his rank sure, but does little for my offensive ability. if my pe gets the gopod stuff, (and if i ever fix his con.......then he;s going to be MADNESS!!!!1)
as always Oath is still uncapped (got a few con to go, and i know thats why im so slow) BUT so is my PE, and i can honestly say if i *somehow* played my PE against my tank, i'd own my tank 100 - 0...........even if i was capped.
Btw, is uranus back up yet lol.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Dj - I used to never use Stealth.
You can ask most of my opponents on the battle field, I refused to do it.
That's very honourable, but you're a very small minority!
This changed when I started fighting Syndicate, because they brought 1000000000000000000000000000000x monks to a op fight and I just can't be fucked to deal with it so I do my shit from range, if they're gonna be cheap I can be too.
You do have to ask yourself why it's all monks now. Then realise it's because there's no real alternative if you want to pwn at an OP war. All I want is Tankocron j\k, seriously all I want is to be a ble to bring any char to a battle and be as effective as anyone else with it!
DjSKum
Originally posted by djskum
..seriously all I want is to be able to bring any char to a battle and be as effective as anyone else with it!
hahahahah, right, right, dream on!!
Thats like asking KK to stop forcing teamwork like all the other mmorpg do nowadays...yeah forced teamwork is fun, wooo
:rolleyes:
death&decay
29-10-03, 14:36
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Dj - I used to never use Stealth.
You can ask most of my opponents on the battle field, I refused to do it.
Dude I never accused you for being a lame stealther or for being
cheap, far from that.
I'm talking about stealth because PEs do have the ability to
stealth. Which is a big advantage if properly used.
I'm just summing up abilities and toys to calculate the overall
performance and to compare tank and PE.
Me personally I don't mind getting ass-raped by either tanks or PEs,
but I really think PEs are more powerful.
I mean look at Xantor's pistol PE.
- He has 480ish HP, My tank has 521.
- He takes 51 from CS, MY tank takes 70something
- He has capped runspeed, My tank with gun out... Well he's quick
but compared to a pistol PE >>>> LAFFFF :)
It just ain't right the way it is now.
SEX @ Oath
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
This changed when I started fighting Syndicate, because they brought 1000000000000000000000000000000x monks to a op fight and I just can't be fucked to deal with it so I do my shit from range, if they're gonna be cheap I can be too.
Man a crahn sect clan bringing monks how unrealistic and underhanded.
Originally posted by death&decay
SEX @ Oath
Well come sex me ingame, you can help me to cap oath off.
SEX @ Djingo
death&decay
29-10-03, 14:45
Originally posted by Oath
SEX @ Djingo
My name's written like that: dJingo
the J is a capital letter, the d ain't you silly git.
Sorry m8 I'm at work (hehe) can't play lol
bye
>Originally posted by QuantumDelta
>All I can really say is that I regard Tanks like Djingo as targets >that come before me on equal terms. (My PE).
>And, if I do not watch what I'm doing, those Tanks whipe my >character out in a few seconds (Djingo has hit me with 100% >accuracy before...every single plasma bolt he fired hit and there >was absolutely NOTHING I could possibly have done to either >dodge their fire or out damage him to survive).
erm that can happen to any class o_0 a pe could hit with every single burst from his lib to a tank, so im not sure why you said that, i know you dont like CS aim but thats just the way it is like ray type weapons.
>"Monkocron" ???
>I play every class, you know what I know?
>Tanks and PEs can _solo_ APU/PPU Teams.
>I do it more regularly on my PE, but I've done it at least once on >my Tank.
>_SOLO_
o.0 with extreme difficulty and extreme luck
>If you can't see how you benefit from a PPU (That knows how to >properly work with a tank....it's somewhat different from PPUing >with an APU....) to win, I pity you.
well i have to agree with you there
>The sad part is, beyond the need for slightly more varied >attacks I can't see a single thing wrong with Tanks, at all.
>And Cursed Soul itself is still overpowered (5% ...and Lupus >admits this too).
I dont mind if they nerf it as long as they giv us a good tl 115 weapon to replace it.
>edit;
>Deac, my Tanks heal is rigged so that it is close to as efficient as >my PEs, it's constructed as well, when a PE Stealths I get a >significant amount of HP Back, and that's not even suggesting >bringing medis too..
what? a 5 slot with low psi power (enough to cast hc-1), thats about 6-12 hp per second, most pes do about 18-25 hp a second i think.
>Don't know about you guys, though.
>My Tank like my other characters is pretty tricked out, it's just >that he's the only guy I don't drug on, so his performance is >permanently steady, even if it's about 5% less than my PEs 100.
I'm so gonna hav to come kick ur ass LOL :)
death&decay
29-10-03, 14:51
Originally posted by REMUS
I'm so gonna hav to come kick ur ass LOL :)
Kick him in his nads for me please
And thanks again for the gear on pluto, t3h good stuff ;)
LOL its np decay, i was toying with the idea of starting a monk, but i just dont like them, doesnt suit me or my style of play.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
LOL
No offence Deac but if a monk is getting less damage than a Tank from a weapon without buffs, the tank is doing something very, very wrong.
wtf is wrong with you? a storm laser dont do random dmg... its a great weapon to test with..... and thats the nummbers we got.... 20 at best on monks and 26 on tanks... pure nrg or nrg/xray ammo
go freaking try it before you do any loling...
Dostan'Ilindith
29-10-03, 14:59
if any of you have seen be about, youll know im a combat orientated PE pistol PKer
tanks are far from uselss. i know a couple of tanks that i have fought in neofrag and lost 9/10 times. its called skills people, you guys just dont have them, which is why when im running circles around you lot, you miss.
Monks have massive energy armour so they are obviously gonna have good resists against energy weapons like storm lasers especially if they have natural resists too.
ive said it before and ill say it again the only problem monks have with regard to resists is the fact that they have low health compared to tanks otherwise they should be able to take about the same damage as tanks from any given weapon with maybe exceptions for gats or x-ray mods but couple that with having a ppu on a leash as alot of apus have they are far superior to tanks in defence and offence.
Originally posted by Dostan'Ilindith
if any of you have seen be about, youll know im a combat orientated PE pistol PKer
tanks are far from uselss. i know a couple of tanks that i have fought in neofrag and lost 9/10 times. its called skills people, you guys just dont have them, which is why when im running circles around you lot, you miss.
NF's not a good place too test, it's bugged. And your saying that all the tanks posting here hhave no skills? Hmmmm, you play on Saturn? I wanna duel you!
DjSKum
Dostan'Ilindith
29-10-03, 15:04
i dual my friends...
i kill everyone else:P
Originally posted by Dostan'Ilindith
i dual my friends...
i kill everyone else:P
Sounds kinda chicken to me and if your like saturn pkers you only kill when people are half dead anyway.
Originally posted by Dostan'Ilindith
i dual my friends...
i kill everyone else:P
Hmmm you sound uber... So come kill me then...
DjSKum
K so far i see this.
Pe's say > tanks are fine.
Tanks say> tanks arent and Pe's are overpowered.
Monks say> ONOZ WE SUCK WE NEED MORE DAMAGE AND MORE DEFENCE
meanwhile the real enemy is hiding in the shadows, spys.
Originally posted by Oath
K so far i see this.
Pe's say > tanks are fine.
Tanks say> tanks arent and Pe's are overpowered.
Monks say> ONOZ WE SUCK WE NEED MORE DAMAGE AND MORE DEFENCE
meanwhile the real enemy is hiding in the shadows, spys.
Im working on a sniper spy as we speak........
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Im working on a sniper spy as we speak........
ONOZ YOU TURNED TO THE DARKSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111PMEPEMPEMPMEPMEPEM
Originally posted by Oath
K so far i see this.
Pe's say > tanks are fine.
Tanks say> tanks arent and Pe's are overpowered.
Monks say> ONOZ WE SUCK WE NEED MORE DAMAGE AND MORE DEFENCE
meanwhile the real enemy is hiding in the shadows, spys.
we should do a pre-emtive strike against them and nerf them now before it becomes spyocron
Originally posted by ezza
we should do a pre-emtive strike against them and nerf them now before it becomes spyocron
Right then:
1) Massive speed nerf for spy's carrying anything heavier than a Biro.
2) Unable to wear any armour thicker than cardboard, corrigated of course I'm not that tight!
3) Everytime a spy attempts to stealth they run a 1:10 chance of exploding!
There, spy's nerfed! ;-)
DjSKum
Original monk
29-10-03, 15:50
Originally posted by death&decay
Sorry dude, no offence, but you're being a despicable whiner here.
Gamma bones give a slight boost of xray resist, PvP setups only
contain head, arm and maybe chest so that's 36 in xxr...
That's nothing you need to be worried of.
And how can you say KK fucked your guns up by bringing those
bones into the game, that's hilarious. Could say the same bout
resist belts, duranit armor and all new stuff that came up recently.
OMG you fucked my ppu up coz now there's holy antibuff :wtf:
OMG you fucked poison beam up coz there's antidote O_o
Don't hate KK for putting new stuff into the game, it's not fair.
Sorry
Yo kermit .... you get my point dont ya ? and for the one time i whine (not included ppu threads) gimme some slack okie ?
And nah ya dont here me complaining about adding new content, im constantly nagging to KK about new content, like in the 3 treads above the one you mentioned :/
And yeah i still want heat resistbones, i feel like my weapons got gimped by adding exclusivly xraybones, and i dont care about youre monkwise comparisons (you think monks where balanced with poison and their ubber shelters ?) , i was talking tank here okaay ? and deflecterbelts and stuff they where in game loong before i modded my guns, they never gave alot xray resist did they and who uses a deflectorbelt in pvp ? except for a kamispy maybe ?
SO: please implement heatbones and implement a modremover, couldnt do any harm not ?
And i dislike people in advance that have stupid green frogs in there avator ;) now go shit on someone else befor i get banned for flaming you from here till timboektoe ....
Originally posted by djskum
Right then:
1) Massive speed nerf for spy's carrying anything heavier than a Biro.
2) Unable to wear any armour thicker than cardboard, corrigated of course I'm not that tight!
3) Everytime a spy attempts to stealth they run a 1:10 chance of exploding!
There, spy's nerfed! ;-)
DjSKum
hmm that sounds like a plan.
(one class down 2 more to go before tanks are back on top:lol: )
heat bones wont be implemented due to inquisition armor. If you have enough con points in fire and inq 4 as a tank, your fire resist is well over 200.
Gamma bones were implemented because there was no real xray defense for anyone.
On another note, If we gonna start asking for imps, what about poison bones... bones that only tanks can use.
Viper King Armor just isnt cutting it for tanks.
Whats the first thing a APU pulls out when he sees a tank? poison... followed by fire.
IMO tanks suck. It's not that i dont have skill, its that other classes have improved and the tank got left with crap ath gimps.
They way i see it, either tanks are uber fast and have no resists, or uber slow and great resists, then they pull out their weapon and their speed is gimped even more.
I mean you tank groupies will argue this to the grave... Check out the numbers.. How many tanks do you see in a OP war, much more in PP? Im from saturn and i rarely see tanks in PP. All i see now is PE's, spies and apu's. Of course, the occasional PPU.
BTW spies ARE uber now. Leave em alone... sell the KK nerf bat to Yo's and just give the tank something to make him formidable.
I see alot more tanks than spies and PEs. No need to get into the
amount of monks however...
Originally posted by Rade
I see alot more tanks than spies and PEs. No need to get into the
amount of monks however...
hmm dunno i see a fair few low end tanks not many high level ones, where as i see a lot of PEs
this is on saturn though
What server?
I know in saturn players are slowly starting to realize just how uber spies and PE's are. thats all i see (not counting the hordes of APU's and PPU's)
Give Tanks some more bonuses on their PA
Replace some tank AoE rares with some more CS-type rares, a rare gat maybe?
Tank PA should give +30 to Wep Lore
Sorted.
how about not making the ath and con gimps so drastic on HC armor?
how about making the cannon model in first person smaller when you draw it out...
Make it so that tanks can go above 65/* without a kami.
my damn capped tank cant pass 2 stars for anything. BS
Originally posted by WebShock
how about not making the ath and con gimps so drastic on HC armor?
how about making the cannon model in first person smaller when you draw it out...
Make it so that tanks can go above 65/* without a kami.
my damn capped tank cant pass 2 stars for anything. BS
yup i agree with all that, tank should be able to get ***
Originally posted by ezza
yup i agree with all that, tank should be able to get ***
Without gunning a tank that is!!!
DjSKum
Originally posted by ezza
yup i agree with all that, tank should be able to get ***
For starters, why does rank matter? Its just a useless number. Second, PEs have never been able to get three stars. Pistol
PEs were usually one star unless they went judge or now with
RoLH.
Well as of right now i couldnt give to shits about tanks being underpowered, cos i just lost mine :( :( :mad: :mad: KKKKKKKOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSS,
maybe this is kk's plan, nerf tanks to fuck and delete those that wont leave.:mad: :mad: :( :( 8| 8|
Man im pissed.
Originally posted by Rade
For starters, why does rank matter? Its just a useless number. Second, PEs have never been able to get three stars. Pistol
PEs were usually one star unless they went judge or now with
RoLH.
Because PE's are supposed to be gimped. They are the hybrid class.
The higher the rank the more damage but less XP, then again when you are capped whats it matter what XP you get, you're capped!
Thats why.
I do 500 + dmg on a warbot with a 3 star midlevel apu with a kami, 150ish 200 without the kami in.
That is the very diffrence in combat rank.
There was a point where APU's could get to 3 stars (over 100 combat rank, some runner with 121 combat) without a kami. That sucked. You were down in 1-2 HL hit and buffed.
Originally posted by Rade
For starters, why does rank matter? Its just a useless number. Second, PEs have never been able to get three stars. Pistol
PEs were usually one star unless they went judge or now with
RoLH.
its status
and there are 3 star PEs on saturn and most PEs i know are 2 star, thanks to the PE you can reach 3 star
death&decay
29-10-03, 17:33
Originally posted by Original monk
And i dislike people in advance that have stupid green frogs in there avator ;) now go shit on someone else befor i get banned for flaming you from here till timboektoe ....
Yeah green frogs are childish nonsense and they're not leet at all.
AND Mr. Monkey, I want to shit on you coz you're talking BS.
There are gammabones and there won't be heatbones BECAUSE
there is heat armor but no xray armor. (Yeah Spy PA but that
doesn't fit tanks you silly smartass)
Anyways you get 160 fire resist from a full set of inq4 so why
for reeza's sake do you want heatbones?
Since I'm using gamma bones the damage I take from xray weapons didn't change.
I only got a few spare points in con so gamma bones =not HAX!
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE FACT THAT THERE ARE GAMMA BONES BUT NO HEATBONES!
Deal with it or deal with my gun :rolleyes: ;)
WebShock, after what you just replied, I'll never be able to give anything you say credibility.
What's the point of a class that's supposed to be gimped?
PE's are supposed to use a wide range of stats to make them equal to the other classes. No class is supposed to be gimped.
death&decay
29-10-03, 17:36
Actually that's what he wanted to say, he just didn't find the right
words to express that.
Original monk
29-10-03, 17:56
Originally posted by death&decay
Yeah green frogs are childish nonsense and they're not leet at all.
AND Mr. Monkey, I want to shit on you coz you're talking BS.
There are gammabones and there won't be heatbones BECAUSE
there is heat armor but no xray armor. (Yeah Spy PA but that
doesn't fit tanks you silly smartass)
Anyways you get 160 fire resist from a full set of inq4 so why
for reeza's sake do you want heatbones?
Since I'm using gamma bones the damage I take from xray weapons didn't change.
I only got a few spare points in con so gamma bones =not HAX!
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE FACT THAT THERE ARE GAMMA BONES BUT NO HEATBONES!
Deal with it or deal with my gun :rolleyes: ;)
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla and for the rest:
look at my extremely L337 avator :P
And for the rest this is a pointless discussion kermit so i aint postin any further
and whats the deal with youre gun ? im kind of pheared now ...
death&decay
29-10-03, 18:04
The deal with my gun is, it shoots with annoying green frogs that
stick on your clothes. And you can't get the green color outta yer
clothes just by washing them.
Also I'm packing a backup-weapon, the hot jam cannon.
You don't wanna mess with this one, trust me.
Unless you wanna get shot with ultra-ubar-accellerated hot jam
from hell.
Now don't talk back won't ya
Your green posts are exceptionally hard to read.. which is a shame as you tend to post decent stuff occasionally.
Shadow Dancer
29-10-03, 20:41
Originally posted by GurTjaN
- they do too little damage
They do 2nd best damage in the game. WTF you talking about?
Originally posted by NeoChick
I agree. Whilst tank is my favourite char I am not playing the tank any longer because it seems to be the weakest char of all. I keep on getting killed and nothing is fun any more, i am just too weak as a tank even though lvl 55 with Marine, cs etc
I now have an APU and compared with the tank I am 'flying high'. Playing is fun again.
I hear from others that have spies that they are having a great time too and I watched pe's soloing wb and they seem to be doing good too.
Tank is just not a viable char any longer. It is supposed to be so strong, ROFL a little low level bald female monk in a frock can beat a tank nowadays
and anyway if you play a tank you only see half of your screen most of the time because in a rediculous way the stupid weapon covers half the screen, I see no reason at all why that should be and why that can't be reduced
Tanks are still quite viable. APU is still one of the "new" classes, if you catch my drift. Just because the tank hasn't gotten a boost in a while certainly does not mean he's not viable anymore.
What's with the exaggerations? LoL. Sometimes I feel like i'm the only person on this message board who can argue his points without lying or exaggerating.
Originally posted by death&decay
Wow... THAT topic again
Tanks are not useless if played right.
Exactly. The problem is people exaggerate. And when they make gross exaggerations they either get ignored or it comes off as silly whining.
Now I agree tanks need a better support role and some other tweaks, but i'm tired of these stupid statements that tanks are obsolete or some crap.
Originally posted by WebShock
Tanks are supposed to be as powerful if not more powerful than a APU.
In what way? They have superior defense to the apu. And the apu is supposed to deal the most damage.
And that's just the way it is right now too.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
The sad part is, beyond the need for slightly more varied attacks I can't see a single thing wrong with Tanks, at all.
And Cursed Soul itself is still overpowered (5% ...and Lupus admits this too).
edit;
Deac, my Tanks heal is rigged so that it is close to as efficient as my PEs, it's constructed as well, when a PE Stealths I get a significant amount of HP Back, and that's not even suggesting bringing medis too..
Don't know about you guys, though.
My Tank like my other characters is pretty tricked out, it's just that he's the only guy I don't drug on, so his performance is permanently steady, even if it's about 5% less than my PEs 100.
I agree. The only person truly fuxored by a stealthing PE is apu, due to lack of healing. That's why I always had to run away from a PE who stealthed. Because if we were both low health, he would come back with full health and i would be fucked.
Originally posted by Rade
I cant help but get the feeling that Tanks that
whine about being underpowered just dont like the feeling of not
being the better than everyone else without even trying.
I get that feelign too sometimes.
Originally posted by WebShock
You were down in 1-2 HL hit and buffed.
Keep losing credibility. Rank doesn't increase damage in any way. Secondly, it takes a MINIMUM of 3 hits to kill someone with a single shot weapon. If you die in 1-2 hits WITH buffs, then you must have 0 energy resist.
Secondly, of ALL classes, tanks are the ons that can spare poison resist points. Thirdly, if you die to poison, then you suck. SOrry that's the truth. First level antidote works in like 2 secodns and takes away 2 stacks. Carry lots of those. Fourth, fire damage is underpowered for apus. If you cap energy and fire resist, you'll see fire do significantly less damage. Fifth, if you fight an apu and he uses poison then switches to fire, he's a goddamn idiot. And you should be able to kill idiots. Unless he has a ppu, but then once a ppu is introduced, everything is fucked.
death&decay
29-10-03, 20:47
I can agree with most of what you said shadow, but still a PE has
better defences than a tank. And better heal. And stealth.
It's not that PEs are ubar and tanks are shit, but there definitely
is a noticable difference.
And for those who don't like green, how's that :D
Shadow Dancer
29-10-03, 20:50
Originally posted by death&decay
I can agree with most of what you said shadow, but still a PE has
better defences than a tank. And better heal. And stealth.
It's not that PEs are ubar and tanks are shit, but there definitely
is a noticable difference.
And for those who don't like green, how's that :D
You're absolutely right. ANd it pisses me off. I don't like when a PE whines about tanks, because they got kick ass heal, stealth, and better defense(without a PPU). AND they get to hack/imp if they want.
I guess any side of any arguement pisses me off it just exaggerates.
Anyways I think a new "line" of technological toys should be open to the spy and PE. And the tank should get better defense. I like rade's suggestion of making tank PA give a shelter like effect.
mmm..
Interesting arguments so far, although I'd like to point out something...
As far as I understood, it's possible to stealth as a tank. Granted, that means drugging up the ass and gimping and using only level 1 Stealth Activator, but they still have the capability to do it.
Anyone want to prove/disprove this, unless I'm right and it's already been thoroughly proven?
Shadow Dancer
30-10-03, 00:20
No it's not possible. Stealth has a mid-high int req.
KRIMINAL99
30-10-03, 05:02
Tank is just my favorite class, but I agree that they are gimped beyond belief right now... I mean if this game consisted of more huge group fights they would be worth something with their Distance AOE attacks and anti vehicle abilities. But nothing motivates people to fight in groups like that because they don't get anything out of it. You practically have to beg clanmates to show up at an OP fight, and you hardly want to do it yourself.
The game IS mostly 1v1 now, and for one thing tanks cant hack no matter how bad they want to. Spies can hack... PEs can hack.. Monks can hack... Tanks can't. Which means no PVP loot in ANY scenario. Lets see what else- they do decent damage while running at gimp speed and aim poorly. Which means basically all any class has to do to beat them is stay 4 feet away from them and move back and forth. They can use a laser cannon and aim far but then their damage sux. If an apu knows how to fight tanks its way unbalanced - they can kill you in a few hits unless you have shelter, they don't have to aim and they can run faster with their weapon out. Even if they are dumb and fight right by you then they still have an advantage because they have point and click aiming and can move faster. (And they might have gimp defense but to them your defense is gimp too lol)
PE's do less damage but can dance faster with their weapon, heal and buff themselves, and dam boost their opponent. Smart pistol and rifle spies will attack a tank from medium short to medium long range using stealth and the same gimp heal a tank uses to wear down and kill the tank. (spies can heal their lesser health bar with that same gimp heal while tanks are busy trying to fill thier 450+ hp 30 pts at a time)
Now don't get me wrong, ive killed every class before with my tank. But the point is there is many more situations where a tank is going against the odds in 1v1's than there are the opposite. I think about the only thing the tank is good for is rpking.
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Originally posted by DartVader
You want to boost PE's?
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This would give the PE a slight boost in TL 3 heal power. I don't think it would be unbalancing.........................................
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no, PEs are monsters right now, they just got the new PA and they are ripping up the place
I didn't read all of the post because it's too long but i saw
death&decay go on about something on xray bones
just gotta say that pes benefit more from them as they can take resist force also (and cap the absord on pierce/force)
tanks wont be able to do this (as they need all point in heavy combat almost, to not sux) and if they take full gamma bones then they wont cap the force/pierce absorb with an armor combo such as inquisiton/duranium as inquisition has suxxor force/pierce on it
yeah also tanks since this is the tanks are they useless now tank thread, i will say yes i got a tank they are the biggest gimps and on top of that a NERFED runspeed with a heavy weapon equipped
read my other post if you want runspeed back on tanks, no ppus allowed to post because your queens k thx bye
death&decay
30-10-03, 10:47
shit i cannot delete this post...
well... uuuhmm.. me loves j00
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