View Full Version : Melee, discuss...
hello, it's late & jamaican rum is nice^^
I know there is another topic kinda throwing bits at this but I felt it needed a bit of focus o_0 (so could I)
err right melee, mainly a tank thing but tbh a bit pooh, why? not enough dmg! a good melee tank has 2 main attacks
1. Rare Freezer (quite good in terms of effect slows the target a little)
2. Devils Grace, NRG blade highest rare methinx in melee
now all well and good but dmg a CS dishes out walks all over the dmg or freq a DG can manage :( so make melee mega ramped in terms of dmg and freq or introduce some new moddable rare melle weapons (maybe powered ones) which do different types of dmg (much greater) so we have balance again
thats all for now :)
DarkPhoenix
28-10-03, 04:16
I havent really tried my Melee tank in PvP but in PvM, I know that the RoF needs to be upped considerably. Not quite as fast as the "If you can read this your dead" bat on the TS, but faster than it is now.
All melee needs is a few weapons past TL103.
I suggest move the Electric Tempest up to TL120 with a Melee req of 160 and make it half decent.
That would be perfect. It would be hard for a HC to spec to and make Melee a good PvP choice.
No need for anything else.
[edit] perhaps a slight touch up in the rof
how to improve melee:
1.) up the tl or add more high tl weapons
2. a) up the dmg a little (kinda sad as of now; the dg is on average less dmg than a PN; dg: 228-383, pn: 3*274; with slow rof on dg its pretty much the same)
2. b.) up the rof by 50% (well ok thats a rough cut but just increase it)
i used mc in pvp and pvm; in pvm is ok but too slow to be effective. in pvp its fun and all until u get paraglued... that and your dmg output is pretty low against anyone with a shelter/def (no matter how shitty) unless they really sux.
KRIMINAL99
28-10-03, 05:25
Everyone drastically underestimates the use of melee in pvp, I have killed Tanks way over my level before with a tl 55 laserblade.
The deal with it is, if your good at it you can go indefinitely without being hit by your enemy, and you will do constant damage to them.
However if you fight two people with melee you are toast.
it also depends on who your fighting... as a melee tank i have the most trouble against other "fast" opponents as they will most likely do more dmg than i do and are as fast as i am (cuz i get shitty fps)
but yeah dunt underestimate mc... we are still gimp but ph33r us nonetheless. (and that run cast tl3 can really kill ppus)
Speaking of monks, the highest lowtech melee rare isn't bad either. pure pierce =)
true; pob + tl3 can rape ppus
While I think TL3 is a bit... dirty, pob is neat. =)
paw of the bear is the hightest non teck rare. i have a balde of ceres and it isnt very good :( my soulbalde is better :)
also make melee weapons not damage as quickly, ive had to get mine repaired twice in a week now :( i never had to do that with any gun i had
Yesh! up the dmg a bit for the poor melee tanks up the freq from what is it now 95/min to maby the same as apu spells @ 105 or even up it to 110/min that can get pretty interesting.
I play mostly my ppu but I have an melee tank on Uranus and it's quite fun at times to chopp stuff up :). They should make the pure lowtech melee weaps somewhat efficiant vs ppu's deflectors but not insanly, that way a team in an op war can have 2 fast badass melee tanks to rush ppu's and just go mad. Ooo and the para needs to be dealt with if that is going to be an option at all.
ino, I dunno if that was sarcastic, but for benefit of doubt I won't take it as such O_o;
In any case, if they upgrade melee weapons, unless they fix how they get damaged, they'll probably break 10x faster than what they do now.
Needs higher tl weapons
better damage and rof
some inherent way of combating para shock not any shock drugs take too long to work and you just get para-spammed again.
mods for weapons-like fire mods for laserblades and poison mods for paws and swords
a rare baseball bat- this lone would make me a lom a tank to melee.
No I dont think I was sarcastic. If pure pierce melee "rares" would be alot more efficiant vs a ppu's deflector and by alot I mean alot more than it is now. But it shouldn't be insanly overpowered. That way melee tanks have a mission at op wars. And cause most of the melee tanks are pretty damn fast if you have 2 crazy melee's pounding the ppu as much as they can they would do enough dmg to maby kill it but most important it might confuse the ppu's and they cant do what they are supposed to do.
Just...one small problem.
We have, as far as I understood, agreed that
a.) non-1v1 + (with) melee = screwed
We have also understood that
b.) ppu / (divided by) melee = pwn
However,
c.) multiple ppus + (with) skill = uberpwn
Thus,
d.) [melee ^ (boosted) +# (non-negative number other than 0 or 1)] / (divided by) ppu x (times) +# (non-negative number other than 0 or 1) = own
What I'm saying is, as long as melee is screwed other than 1v1 or zerging, upgrading them won't help much.
If anything, it'll turn into tanks vs. monks. People will want more melee tanks which will result in more PPUs to buffer the problem, and repeat.
Low-Teck melee is perfect actually. POB BOC and VR are perfect for there reqs.
IMO up the MC requirements on the Teck Melee's and up the ROF and Damage. There is no point in speccing to teck class as it is, and if you make TC-MC too powerfull without upping the reqs then Hybrid Tanks will be too overpowering. However I don't know what kind of effect this will have on Melee PE's. It's kind of a tough one.
Hehe.. well that calculation can be put on alot of the things to ease up the ppu discussion.. that way we wont see any change at all.
and 1on1 situations should always be the ppus walking away pretty much unharmed..
In op battles a melee vs the ppus.. Im not talking about make the melee the only viable way to take out the ppu's.. You have apus to help out if you got one arround.. But becuase of the super speed some melee tanks get it can sure be an irritating option to if not "own" the ppu but distracting it by being in his face all the time. If you have two melee tanks its even better more distraction.. Cause even if the heals of a ppu is strong, the battle is won when the damage dealers are eliminated, and they will be alot faster than now if the ppu is bothered nonstop and cant do it's job as easy as before..
If ppl would all of a sudden switch to play melee cause it could kill or make the opposite ppu force easier to deal with/ if melee would get owerpowered in general.. then ppl suck big fucking time.. Stop switching arround just to win, that in the long run ends up in a OMG neeerf melee tanks tank0cron has got to go and so on... Learn how to play the class you actually like end of story.
But I think it would be nice to see a boost to melee tanks and make them more useful than they are now (Yes I know they can be a viable option as it is now).
Beh melees definatly need a boost in higher weapon choices so they can deal more damage. Like this, they're just about total crap in comparison to what a CS tank/other classes are.
If people will hop factions just to either
a.) Get random epics (Not talking about the true-blue paladins here)
b.) Side with the 'best' clan(s)
I suspect people will move to another class just to be the 'best'.
It's happened before actually, and it will happen again.
- Need more melee weapons with higher TLs. Can we get some creativity here? Like, Regant Blades being dual laser blades, slightly weaker than Devils Grace but twice the RoF. Stuff like that.
- Need AoE melee weapons. Like some huge ball & chain that's swung around and kind of has the same AoE effect of the Holy Multi Energy Bolt.
- Melee Armor needs 200+ melee requirements and needs to be para-resistant so that a melee tank at least has a chance at fighting.
- Melee attacks should break thru 50% of shelter and deflectors. If you're willing to walk right up to someone, there should be a reward for putting yourself in the frying pan.
- Thunderbolt either needs a bigger brother or a shock boost. That or Holy Para should be nerfed to the level of the Thunderbolt. Holy Para and Thunderbolt should start ticking down the second it hits you tho, only 10-15 seconds like a heal.
Just my melee suggestions. Not that any of my suggestions have ever seen the light of day in-game :rolleyes:
Melee just needs to be tweaked a bit. A small but noticeable and worthwhile damage increase, some mods that will allow for other types of damage (but not use ammo), and a small but noticable rate of fire increase, and the PA needs para resistance.
Another idea I got while playing Hexen (anyone who remembers that game gets a cookie) is to give the laser blades a special medium range ranged attack, like an electric fireball of some sort, and while doing decent damage comparable to cannons of similar TL, it should have a very slow rate of fire (maybe similar to that of a sniper rifle), and revert back to melee attacks when up close. That way they can agro mobs better and do some ranged damage in a pinch, and not be totally useless when paralysed.
Some other ranged melee might be cool too, like throwing stars, knifes, and axes (with corresponding laser versions as well).
is it possible to get your swing speed above 39 per min?
Originally posted by -FN-
- Need AoE melee weapons. Like some huge ball & chain that's swung around and kind of has the same AoE effect of the Holy Multi Energy Bolt.
Dude, thats a cool idea. Would make for some more fun. Tanks piling into an OP battle swinging their balls and gettin' killed.
Melee is good, 1 on 1. As stated though, any more people and you die. It is very good for killing stealthed spies. Cos you can follow them and whack em when they appear.
The targeting is a bit amiss on melee though (if you've ever fought brutes or beasts). You can't hit the sometimes when they run away from you. A server-client problem i guess.
It does need a bit of an upgrade though. Every other weapon class in the game needs you to max out pistol/rifle/hc...etc to cap the uber weapon. With a DG, you can still be a decent HC tank too. We need some more higher TL rares for melee!!! And ones which can be ammo modded maybe or some kind of modding...
I think the swing speed is like 95/min actually the swing rate is not correct in the stats on the weap.. atleast I dont think so.
And yes I guess some ppl need to play only to win.. we'll se what happens :)
You wanted Creativity -FN-?
How about they have special armour for melee characters that changes their appearance making them look really big & mean.
Thier suppose to be even stronger and more brutish then your average genetank that uses guns right?
Their shape should look Bulky and somewhat hunchbacked with really big (and i mean REALLY BIG) hands like power gloves after they got the armour on. Then they can rip u apart with their power gloves instead of using a sword which is kinda lame cause this is the future. They should be slower then your average character after wearing the suit of course, but have much higher armour.
Since most players can outrun them, its only fair that the person in the "melee armour" deals MEGA damage once they get close enough to punch.
As a secondary AoE attack they could even Slam their Fist on the ground with a thunderous BOOM!!! causing area damage to the players around them.
Originally posted by Lecko
Dude, thats a cool idea. Would make for some more fun. Tanks piling into an OP battle swinging their balls and gettin' killed.
Swinging their balls? :wtf:
LOL are u thinking what i'm thinking? :angel:
KRIMINAL99
30-10-03, 20:02
Originally posted by mdares
it also depends on who your fighting... as a melee tank i have the most trouble against other "fast" opponents as they will most likely do more dmg than i do and are as fast as i am (cuz i get shitty fps)
but yeah dunt underestimate mc... we are still gimp but ph33r us nonetheless. (and that run cast tl3 can really kill ppus)
Haha... Yeah against an apu :( they can run just as fast while attacking and do 40 billion times the damage of melee
Devils Grace
30-10-03, 20:13
Originally posted by Kenjuten
[melee ^ (boosted) +# (non-negative number other than 0 or 1)] / (divided by) ppu x (times) +# (non-negative number other than 0 or 1) = own
WTFo_O
all i can say is that i only got trouble against PE's and ppu's everyone has so i dont even try.
tanks and apu's when solos are easy
hehe there are some very cool ideas coming out here, some a bit more practical than others^^
I think the freeze resistant armour is a good start with a req of 200+ mc which as a pure melee should be easily reachable yet should rule out hybrids or other classes wanting to hax the anti freeze capability
ammo mods would also make a big diference and the bonus dmg vs shield, def.
cool ideas keep em coming :)
What about if L's dropped off cave non-boss mobs? It's not like there that good. It would increase the circulation of melee weapons in the game and make melee somewhat more accessable.
or...
Make melee PA give +15 repair. Some kind of nerual interface. It is kind of fitting considering tanks would have the need to addapt to fix broken weapons. Meke mele PA require 200 melee skill.
i only skimmed over what has been said in this thread, but from my time as a melee tank, only thing they need is a damage mod for there weapons.
you compare CS to DG which are within 2 TLs of each other, and the CS can rip the DG user apart in a short space of time.
however the CS user is easier for the opponent to hit, which the melee tank is zooming everywhere.
i soloed 1 PE and 2 spys with my melee tank, that was a libby/blacksun PE a FL spy and a sniper spy.
the fight lasted for ages resulting in another win for the melee tank.
another occasion i got attacked while fighting a brute, a few mins later the TG PE is eating the dirt and im backto owning mobs.
Melee is usable, id sooner go on a PK run with my melee tank than a heavy one, try hitting a tank thats running at 100 mph:p
only problem is shelter drastically reduces melee damage to a stupidly low amount, the saving grace when this happens is speed and if you have a decent setup char then also resists will keep you alive.
Melee V Spy = np for melee tank, sure a good spy can win but if your losing a lot with you melee dude against a spy you need to look at your setup, only trouble is the stelth factor, but i find i can heal decent amount in the between time.
Melee V PEs= well this is more leaning towards PEs, though your shocker helps a lot with this one, as if there pistols, they can move as fast as melee tanks. shock em and its slows em down just enough to help, not over powering but enough.
but with shelter and no ammo mod for melee its a tough one for melee.
Melee V heavy= a good melee tank can beat the avarage heavy tank, and depending on how good you are its possible to compete with the uber tanks.
Melee V apu= if you got the resists and can get close, POB owns APUs, soloed 2 apus with my tank they didnt stand a chance.
melee V PPU or a buffed char= good luck winning inthis case as ppu buffs make melee look like a steaming pile of shite, if i see a enemy with ppu i tend to start heading in the opposite direction:D
anyway just my take on it.
oh and put DG up to TL115
exactly my experience as well with melee tanks; but like u said shelter makes the dg look like a child's toy...
so up the dmg on that and/or up the dmg over time (i.e. up the rof)... or just make it do more dmg to sheltered people...
also parashock is the death of melee... perhaps melee pa can have anti-shock stuffs installed...
Originally posted by mdares
exactly my experience as well with melee tanks; but like u said shelter makes the dg look like a child's toy...
so up the dmg on that and/or up the dmg over time (i.e. up the rof)... or just make it do more dmg to sheltered people...
also parashock is the death of melee... perhaps melee pa can have anti-shock stuffs installed...
yeah para is a melee killer, melees the only combat skill where you have to be toe to toe(pistols is close but you done need to get close enough to smell the opponant)
but once you get para'd they can just laugh at you as they back out of range
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