View Full Version : Stealth dropping turrets outside a OP ?!? Allowed ?
Dropping turrets outside a OP ? This allowed ? a OP like hawkins, just now we were fighting there, when blammo, a stealther drops some stuns and gats inbetween us OUTSIDE the OP. Allowed or not? Cause alot of us got screenies, even of the guy doing it...
I think that isnt allowed just like putting turrets in the UG. I think there fixing that bug but not entirly sure...
Develop and show the screenie already.
well it is allowed, its just cheep. its done to us alot.
ya same clan just TL3 healed, noob deflectored and shelterd our PPU's.....
Dropped stealth turrets inside and outside the OP aswell.....
[Edit]
Originally posted by BlackDove
Develop and show the screenie already.
No, mostly because I would have to edit most of it, due to seeing names of people talking, team icons, big ass chat bar etc.....
Cant be arsed, will just send them right to KK... That is the lamest thing ever, when the defenders of a OP can stand there and sex you in local and flame you because your tied up by the 6 turrets theyve dropped around you outside the OP.....
greendonkeyuk
28-10-03, 01:32
Lamers.
Never ever seen that done myself, didnt know it was possible, i guess coz you only got one char on pluto you got more time to spend thinking up sneaky ways to bend the system to your advantage..... (not you personally mate, you figuratively).
Personal opinion says there should be a territory that ends at the edge of the actual op itself. No turrets past that point kind of thing.
Gotterdammerung
28-10-03, 01:52
Personally this seems like an exploit, somehow they are able to place a turret ourside of the walls of the ops. I know whomever does it will claim they didn't know it should be done, but common sense dictates otherwise.
I strongly suggest that you send the screenshots to exploits@neocron.com and please forward a set to me as well. I'll make sure they get into the right hands.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Personally this seems like an exploit, somehow they are able to place a turret ourside of the walls of the ops. I know whomever does it will claim they didn't know it should be done, but common sense dictates otherwise.
I strongly suggest that you send the screenshots to exploits@neocron.com and please forward a set to me as well. I'll make sure they get into the right hands.
and your mails Gotterdammerung@neocron.com yea ?
GambitFlame
28-10-03, 02:07
You want the 30 odd screenies from me of this lame useage to turrets too ?
Many of of the OPs are set up really sloppily.
Some you can barely turret anywhere at all, even tho you are nowhere near the GR or walls or whatver, and some seem to extend their turretable zone way out into the boonies for some odd reason.
I've seen it done to a fair few OPs over time. The turretable areas seem to be fairly arbitrarily drawn, and don't always seem to correspond the the actual layout of the OP o_O
Edit: On a related note ... there a couple of OPs that have bizarre "local" hotspots. You can be well outside the oupost walls, and theres a 3 foot radius circle that gives you a local list from *inside the hackroom*.
i.e. You are well outside normal local list radius of ppl in the hackroom - you move a foot into this "hotspot" ... everyone in the hackroom appears on yout local list.
Move a foot past the other side and it's back to normal again.
Freaky :eek:
I thought you could place turrets anywhere inside a zone in which you own the OP, except they can't be too close to a GR and they can't be too close to the edge of the zone?
well we had a similar situation with a clan on saturn and i and a few otheres got screenshots and emailed to exploits but got no response... can i email u a set too gotter?
@scikar: all i know of fact is that it cant be placed close to the entrance to the op and the gr... with that said we got ss of turrets placed RIGHT OUTSIDE THE ENTRACE to a gr... in plain site... kinda cheap but eh. shit happens; just need to make sure the officials know about it...
Gotterdammerung
28-10-03, 05:46
my e-mail is
copbot.gotterdammerung@neocron.com
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
ya same clan just TL3 healed, noob deflectored and shelterd our PPU's.....
Dropped stealth turrets inside and outside the OP aswell.....
Naming no names :F :) :F
Talk of the devil ... guess what just happened to me ? :D
http://www.hrmmm.co.uk/nc/sxr_stun.jpg
http://www.hrmmm.co.uk/nc/sxr_stun1.jpg
Vampire222
28-10-03, 09:29
here we go again... and people dont understand 5 clans v 1 clan is a bit unfair without extra turrets
If you cant kill a stealthed that drop turrets, thats another thing.
Very true and exactly what happened in this case.
It might not be a honorable way to fight, most of us might not support this kind of stuff, but i don't personally think its an exploit.
Personally I think it is, defeats the object of fighting and pushing into an op, turrets inside an op and on enterance ramps are fine by me, they simply represent murder holes and such like which have to be cleared first.
However dropping stuns and gats directly flanking the attacking clan and then charging out is just cowardly and IMO really isn't the way intended turrets are meant to work. Plus to those who know hawkins to get the kinda scale, one of the gats was placed as if you were going directly outta the op and then drop to the first cover point off the road...thats pretty damn far imo.
Birdman the 5:1 clan is bullshit, it was 2:1, and they had 20 online, and our 2 clans together had 18 online..... do the maths, if you can o_O
aslong as the turrets aint in the the ug all is fine... those are the rules soo far... nothing else have been set by kk
Gotterdammerung
28-10-03, 10:54
Guys, the thread isn't about a stealthed spy dropping turrets nor 5 clans against 1, it's about the placement of turrets outside of an OPs walls.
Now no one canspeak for reakktor except reakktor, so take with a grain of salt any advice that some posters may be giving out about what is allowed and what isn't.
I would suggest this though, for the time being until the matter is clarified I would err on the side of caution. If you are about to place a turret outside the geographic boundaries of the ops and a little voice inside your head says "OMG H4x" and it feels wrong to be putting it way outside the walls/entrances of Gravis uplink (as pictured) Jeriko fort or simmons factory etc... DON'T DO IT.
You can just as easily have the same effect by keeping them inside the ops and in the long run maybe save yourself alot of headache.
In the meantime thank you for sending me the e-mails and I will try to get an official clarification as soon as possible.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Now no one canspeak for reakktor except reakktor, so take with a grain of salt any advice that some posters may be giving out about what is allowed and what isn't.
too bad kk never speaks then? :wtf:
untill you get CLEAR rules about what you can do or not do then ill place turrets anywhere the hell i CAN place em... (not that i place many turrets as a tank)
this is just like tl3 heals on so on.. .everyone bitch, but no one knows the truth....
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
If you are about to place a turret outside the geographic boundaries of the ops and a little voice inside your head says "OMG H4x"
ROFL :lol:
Originally posted by deac
untill you get CLEAR rules about what you can do or not do then ill place turrets anywhere the hell i CAN place em... (not that i place many turrets as a tank)
this is just like tl3 heals on so on.. .everyone bitch, but no one knows the truth....
typical ff mentaility, as long as an exploit isnt added to the rulebook im allowed to use it :rolleyes:
Birdman[H.E.]
28-10-03, 11:53
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Guys, the thread isn't about a stealthed spy dropping turrets nor 5 clans against 1, it's about the placement of turrets outside of an OPs walls.
Now no one canspeak for reakktor except reakktor, so take with a grain of salt any advice that some posters may be giving out about what is allowed and what isn't.
I would suggest this though, for the time being until the matter is clarified I would err on the side of caution. If you are about to place a turret outside the geographic boundaries of the ops and a little voice inside your head says "OMG H4x" and it feels wrong to be putting it way outside the walls/entrances of Gravis uplink (as pictured) Jeriko fort or simmons factory etc... DON'T DO IT.
You can just as easily have the same effect by keeping them inside the ops and in the long run maybe save yourself alot of headache.
In the meantime thank you for sending me the e-mails and I will try to get an official clarification as soon as possible.
Well then fix the damn bugs, after all is not the player responsability if there is a bug, even he must be punish for whats hes doing.
According to http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65250 rezz kill is permitted until KK code the solution. (perhaps this is another one of KKs long forgotten features, the lsit of which includes, among other things, copbots in CA HQ and the overhaul of Battle Dome.
I also was unaware that you were not allowed to place turrets outside of OPs. I thought they could be placed anywhere as long as they didn't block exiting the GR.
I would also like to see an official statement from KK about this.
As to 'typical <whoever> mentality....' as far as I'm aware there has never been anything to say that placing turrets outside of OPs is illegal. If KK want to make it illegal they should make it so it can't be done. Sloppy coding is not an excuse.
Perhaps KK need to create a thread of 'official' rules on items such as this.
Athon Solo
EDIT: Silly me, after posting I realized this was on stealthdropping OUTSIDE of ops. :)
Originally posted by kurai
Talk of the devil ... guess what just happened to me ? :D
http://www.hrmmm.co.uk/nc/sxr_stun.jpg
http://www.hrmmm.co.uk/nc/sxr_stun1.jpg
hehe that was me :P
I wasnt stealthing when I dropped it though I could of, and second of all since when are you not allowed place a turret where you can.
I mean in a wall or exploiting in some way that it cant be attacled or gives unfair advantage.
I was eing pummelled by a APU/PPU team so I ran behind them and dropped the turret, as I died I laughed my ass off :D
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
Birdman the 5:1 clan is bullshit, it was 2:1, and they had 20 online, and our 2 clans together had 18 online..... do the maths, if you can o_O
20 online isn't the same as 20 in the fight. Next time we fight you do the counting.
And IF TL3 will become an exploit, then it should be so that PPUs can only heal themselves, not anyone else, making hybrids a viable option again ^_^
// Wannabe
Originally posted by Wannabe
20 online isn't the same as 20 in the fight. Next time we fight you do the counting.
And IF TL3 will become an exploit, then it should be so that PPUs can only heal themselves, not anyone else, making hybrids a viable option again ^_^
// Wannabe
counting of stealth turrets aswell ? SS/NDA had a total of 18 online, doubt we had 18 there, FF had a total of 20 online, its your problem if you cant get all members online in one pace at the same time...
Anyway, this thread isnt about that, so drop that shit, its about stealth dropping turrets behind your opposition outside the OP.... o_O
MayhemMike
28-10-03, 14:46
only n00bs place turrets outside of ops !
Stealthers can be countered with TSS. Use it.
Until KK makes it so:
A) Placing a turret has a "construction" time
or
B) You simply "Cannot use this item yet!" when you're stealthed
it's a usable tactic. Yes SXR uses it. But those who are at an SXR vs FF fight know that FF always shows up with 95% monks with that stray PE or Tank in there and they also get up to 30 online at once. SXR is a 'practical' size clan of 65, counting the alts and some inactives. FF has 110. They have no room to complain about tactics when they're based solely on outnumbering and outmonking.
Also, what about Mine OPs? They don't have defined walls, so where would be "inside" and "outside"? They're generally so compact you can't place turrets near the actual OP because the GR is there. Then OPs like Jankins, you can *only* place them outside the OP thanks to the piss-poor setup to that OP which could have tons of possibilities.
In the X:1 outnumbering argument, that's like saying "OHNOZ!! KENYA, SUDAN, ETHIOPIA, AND ZAMBIA ARE ATTACKING THE US!!! 4 VERSUS 1!@!!!!one". How many "clans" show up at an OP war means nothing. That's the most hollow argument clans use anymore.
Originally posted by MayhemMike
only n00bs place turrets outside of ops !
you just summarized this whole thread :D
Turrets have ALWAYS been allowed anywhere but within the GR area. You can stick them out in the middle of the desert on a hill or near the road adjacent to the next zone if you want to kill travellers if you wanted to spend the time and money...
So the only issue left is whether or not its cheesy to drop em while stealthed... And, like anything, its valid till KK either makes a rule saying ppl can't do that, or codes a solution.. its that simple.
This thread should be closed on the principal that it is a false accusation of exploiting if nothing else :/
Originally posted by sikko
Turrets have ALWAYS been allowed anywhere but within the GR area. You can stick them out in the middle of the desert on a hill or near the road adjacent to the next zone if you want to kill travellers if you wanted to spend the time and money...
So the only issue left is whether or not its cheesy to drop em while stealthed... And, like anything, its valid till KK either makes a rule saying ppl can't do that, or codes a solution.. its that simple.
This thread should be closed on the principal that it is a false accusation of exploiting if nothing else :/
more along the lines of
A) STealth dropping turrets is a gay tactic, a stealther cant draw a weapon for a reason, yet they can drop a weapon which is gayer... Just make it so you get the message saying you can nnot use this item yet, while stealthed.
B) In nearly a year, I have not seen a turret outside a OP o_O hell some OPs dont even let you drop them in half of the inside boundaries of it o_O
Freaky Fryd
28-10-03, 16:34
I've seen (and been killed by) turret placement outside the walls of Simmons before. Way back in the spring we used to fight there all the time, and there's a spot near the corner of the OP walls (closest to the GR) that when you come out of the GR and up that hill straight ahead, you can get shot. If it's a Gatlin turret (as it usually was) it will make REAL quick of spies with the GR SI still...
This is something I've seen many times at different OPs and known about...but never thought of it as an exploit. It's just not practical to drop turrets there (except in the heat of battle) due to it being easy to pick off by a rifleman or anyone with long range weapons...
Maybe people haven't seen it because
A) Why would anyone want to 'waste' a turret there, that can get hit so easily
B) No one really thought (in the heat of battle) about dropping them there if only for the rest of the battle
See its cause I'm a tactical genius not an exploiter!
Turrets just suck in general... always been a waste of money :)
Q`alooaith
28-10-03, 16:47
I'm ok with people dropping turret's outside the op wall's...
Think of it this way, they cost mucho credit's and when placed away from the op they are not defending it, they are taking up a turret slot at the op and all that...
Putting turret's at the GR is not allowed, though nout else has come up as wrong or bad, if you can dump a turret 300 yard's from the op wall all power to ya, but it's a sitting duck that's doing nothing for defence..
Some op's you can get over the wall's by climbing over hill's.. Should this be removed since it's getting around em?
So I'm happy with it as is, hoping if KK "fix" this they also fix the many way's to bypass turret's and wall's in op's.. fair's only fair..
so many exploits now days, it ruins the game for people....
KRIMINAL99
28-10-03, 16:54
Neither of those things are bugs which means they are not against the rules unless KK specifically amends the rules to change it... (which is really bad form opposed to just making it undoable if they don't like it)
The only reason the turrets in the UG thing is against the rules is because they don't change ownership when the OP is hacked which is a bug. Using it to your advantage is exploiting a bug in the game which is directly against the rules...
Being able to tl 3 heal and tl 9 deflect ppus and drop turrets while stealthed are not bugs in the game, if not done purposely then they are just design oversights...
Btw when did reactor ever say that turrets couldnt be placed outside of OP's? They STOPPED them from being able to be placed at gr's I remember that, I don't ever remember them saying NOT to do it. Or amending the rules specifically to say that "turrets can't be placed outside of OP's"
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Neither of those things are bugs which means they are not against the rules unless KK specifically amends the rules to change it... (which is really bad form opposed to just making it undoable if they don't like it)
The only reason the turrets in the UG thing is against the rules is because they don't change ownership when the OP is hacked which is a bug. Using it to your advantage is exploiting a bug in the game which is directly against the rules...
Being able to tl 3 heal and tl 9 deflect ppus and drop turrets while stealthed are not bugs in the game, if not done purposely then they are just design oversights...
Btw when did reactor ever say that turrets couldnt be placed outside of OP's? They STOPPED them from being able to be placed at gr's I remember that, I don't ever remember them saying NOT to do it. Or amending the rules specifically to say that "turrets can't be placed outside of OP's"
well i didnt even know you could, in my experience your lucky if you can even place turrets at certain spots INSIDE your OP, let alone outside the OP all around your opponent, using stealthers :rolleyes:
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Neither of those things are bugs which means they are not against the rules unless KK specifically amends the rules to change it... (which is really bad form opposed to just making it undoable if they don't like it)
The only reason the turrets in the UG thing is against the rules is because they don't change ownership when the OP is hacked which is a bug. Using it to your advantage is exploiting a bug in the game which is directly against the rules...
Being able to tl 3 heal and tl 9 deflect ppus and drop turrets while stealthed are not bugs in the game, if not done purposely then they are just design oversights...
Btw when did reactor ever say that turrets couldnt be placed outside of OP's? They STOPPED them from being able to be placed at gr's I remember that, I don't ever remember them saying NOT to do it. Or amending the rules specifically to say that "turrets can't be placed outside of OP's"
/\ what he said
/damn u fenyx post slower :D
Just a small thought, you might get a better response from KK if you try making your argument without bringing on the "FF does this, FF does that" whining. It really bugs me the way Pluto clans do this constantly, always bitching about what the other clans do, and calmly ignoring the fact that they do the same thing themselves.
At the end of the day, who even cares? You don't win fights by fighting the way your enemy tells you to. Did people in WW2 avoid shooting each other in the back because it wasn't fair? Hell no, they used every single dirty trick they could to make sure they won. Likewise, did they even out their weapon selections to make sure they didn't have too much firepower and give them too much of an advantage? No - the german StG44 assault rifle was far more effective than anything in the allied arsenal, and it was planned to replace every rifle and submachinegun in the entire german army.
Why should this be any different?
Clean this thread up :rolleyes: pls ? with sugar on top ?
Doc Holliday
28-10-03, 21:02
well waaay back in the day clans used to drop turrets nr grs such as jerico before the rules got changed for locking ops. i can remember the noob days i spent picking bits of me off the gr walls after reppin in to level.
Gotterdammerung
28-10-03, 22:35
post your screen shot or else please stop posting that some gm who's name you can't remember told you it was ok
Shadow Dancer
28-10-03, 22:38
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
post your screen shot or else please stop posting that some gm who's name you can't remember told you it was ok
huh?
Sheeesh sorry. I deleted Shadow Dancer, so I don't have the email the GM sent me. But I think I do have a screenie, lemme check.
EDIT: BTW it was me complaining to this GM when the tactic was first being used.
Gotterdammerung
28-10-03, 22:54
I'm gonna close this a little while for some editing
[reopened]
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