View Full Version : How can win and loss ever be defined?
I'm sure this has happened to every OP fighting clan on every server at some point.
You take an OP. You fight off the scouts. The previous owners show up in force, you win. Maybe even outnumbered and "outmonked", you win. You secure the OP and brace yourself. They send MORE and you still have your, let's say, 8 players. Thru tactics, teamwork, and old fashioned war of attrition, you win again. Does that finally mean you've won? No, because they come back.
This continues over and over until either your members log, or the attacking team that's 3 size your size, with attackers friendly to your faction who laugh at turrets (unless you set them to attack all not in clan, but then you better hope you have a 100+ sized clan because you can't use allies), and even maybe LEd runners to divert turret and player fire. So you eventually lose.
Overall however, in the hours of fighting, you held your own, outnumbered, outgunned, and "outmonked". You feel like you should have won, but you don't. You get left with no OP, poking to be done, and items to be repaired. So when, after you win battle after battle, do you actually "win"?
I've been trying to put together theories as far as an OP only being able to change owners once per hour or something to the like. But then "ninja hacks" could get an OP for at least an hour with no effort, so that idea sucks. I'm sure people who can relate know what I'm shooting for tho. Something that makes an OP worth holding for 3 hours straight of fighting, never getting to use it, only because you lose it even after your clan obviously can hold their own.
*shrug* I just think there's gotta be a good idea out there somewhere to make the reward of actually winning, worth something.
Another note I hope KK someday hits before NC dies is clan size limits! Taking Pluto for example, most of the OPs on the server are owned by FF, Dark, and SS. SXR and NDA get OPs now and then but only after tremendous battles and can't retain them due to the bottom line, always being outnumbered. When I complain about numbers, people tell me to "recruit more ppl into SXR then". I don't like large clans. I don't want a large clan and never have. FF and Dark currently have over 100 people. They brag about being "active" and that's why they win. An active clan that can brag about winning is SS who currently have about 30 people.
One would hope FF and Dark would realize that yeah, it's fun to own half the map. But everyone else sees (even in their own factions) that it's simply lame to be "the strongest clan on the server", but it's public knowledge that the prereqruisites to being such is having large numbers online as often as possible... and 80% of which being monks, but monkocron is a different issue altogether.
I know all of SXR enemies will see that last paragraph as a "bitch and whine" because we don't regularly have OPs, but that's only those who aren't seeing the real point. We, as well as some FF I'm sure, know that in even number battles, the outcome can go either way and it's FUN when it's all said and done. And we've also proven, not just today, that heaviily outnumbered, we can still win. I'm actually, in a weird way, complimented that it takes as much as it does for us to lose in some battles. The point is, ideally the 100+ member clans would take it upon themselves to create a clan that was balanced class-wise, and pick and choose their skilled players instead of recruiting everyone who can fire a weapon. TG could easily have 3-4 mid-sized, fun to fight, clans, as well as Crahn. This would make the OP map much more dynamic and up the fighting on the server to a more "global" feeling level instead of the isolated "Oh there's a fight a XXX OP? Must be A and B fighting".
There's a hell of a lot of responsibility in running a clan if you are trying to keep in mind the community and the overall world of NC itself. Most leaders completely ignore this though because they either want the biggest clan, the clan with the most monks, or just want to see the OP map in all their Factions colour. Neocron itself and the servers in turn would be a MUCH better and more fun game if there were more dynamics built into it, but for now, sooo much of the direly needed dynamics are a responsibility of the players and the community. We can make our own servers diverse and fun, but we have to make it happen.
The most ideal solution would be, MORE PLAYERS! More players means more clans. More clans mean more dynamic battlefields and changing of owners. But let's face it, you know it and I know it. That's not going to happen any time soon. So why can't the existing players MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW with what we have? I've told so many players interested in SXR, "Well TGM and NDA are also recruiting I think, you should definitely stay in CA, but our ranks are just about full".
*sigh* I know I'm rambling and I know this is hopeless so I'm sorry. I just see a lot of bitching going on on the forums and in-game that could be alleviated if we as a player-base took it on ourselves to actually try to create a server where we all want to play instead of one we all want to own.
I'm gonna go watch SpongeBob now. This post has been entirely too serious for me o_O
-- Edit --
Please don't turn this into a flame war. I know all clans have experienced what I talked about at first so they should be able to relate. What I'd like here is possible "winning" solutions like I proposed, if you think it's a good idea. And I'd like the community's general consensus on how clan sizes related to our current gameplay, if at all. kthxbye.
Shadow Dancer
26-10-03, 22:52
Yea i wish there was a clan size limit.
Um, btw about enemies repeatedly coming back. Isn't that why Jupiter implemented belt drops? Maybe we should do the same for english servers?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Um, btw about enemies repeatedly coming back. Isn't that why Jupiter implemented belt drops? Maybe we should do the same for english servers?
I made a post about it and got flamed...
I dont like large clans either, but dont think a clan size limit would help. Clans would just split into lots of little ones. Size beating skills is gay =(
shad, that might not be a bad Idea, may also see less fking APUs and PPUs turning upto battle :) :) :)
btw i can tell you your sigs wrong aswell ;) :p
Shadow Dancer
26-10-03, 22:58
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
shad, that might not be a bad Idea, may also see less fking APUs and PPUs turning upto battle :) :) :)
btw i can tell you your sigs wrong aswell ;) :p
yea ppus would be alot more careful fighting in warzones. Um, how do you KNOW my sig is wrong? Details K THX :p
Originally posted by Nexxy
I made a post about it and got flamed...
I dont like large clans either, but dont think a clan size limit would help. Clans would just split into lots of little ones. Size beating skills is gay =(
How do you think the problem could be alleviated? I really hate seeing one color on the map. I LOVE the idea of tons of clans fighting each other instead of just the main 2-3.
i would GLADLY go for belt drops in war zones.
I dunt even know what alleviated means...
Bleh i dunno, dynamic factions and crap so if a faction seems to be getting too big they dont let any more join till other factions are up to its level. My ideas stupid though, but i try so hard =(
last time i checked dark has 78 members
im not 100% sure on gungnir, he keeps denying it, but i think he's just denying to keep me off his case :p ;) but i am sure of nidhogg and he knows it :p, one of nid's first days as a mod, he posted ''as nid'' but was on his normal account :lol:
not saying tho, cause that will get me slapped from here to landsend 8| plus ive got coldturkey from my banstick addiction i really dont crave another ban..... yet.... :angel:
Stop discussing what Mod's normal accounts might be and get back on topic please.
KramerTheWeird
26-10-03, 23:19
You can only win teritory, there is nothing else to the game besides that. Therefore you get clans vying for teritory. They don't get it that people play this game for fun, and by thinking of theirselves and only theirselves they ruin that fun for everyone but theirselves. Clan PIMP never really cared to own more than 2 ops at a time, even having one op we are happy with, but other clans see this as a weakness, that we can't control more than that. Well, what if we don't want to control more? What if we want others to contol more, to have a diversity and allow people to enjoy the game and have more complex alliances with more costantly changing borders?
Personally I'd like to see every faction have at least one outpost under control but it's always the power hungry "omg I got half the map I'm uber" clans that ruin the fun for everyone. What's worse is that they will use any means necessary to keep their claim, such as ninja hacking and such, resorting to "they do it to us so why can't we do it to them" excuses.
NDA tried I think the best out of any other clan to get multiple factions on the map, however the clans simply couldn't hold their own, another problem, and probably the main reason you don't see as much diversity. The power hungry clans exploit the ones they know are weaker than them, having to conjure up some excuse to make them feel they diserve that op and others don't. Protection of the weaker clans is frowned upon, as most see it as "having other clans fight for them", and sadly that does seem the case in a lot of circumstances. But.. why can't there be any diplomatic means of peace, instead of being some bully and taking ops all the time without a care?
One thing could because of the clan player base. A thriving strong clan lives off of it's members, and most of the time the members seek action by constant op fighting and pk'ing. If they can't get this the clan majority will fall out, morale is lost, and eventually they'll become the exploited. This game is only what the players make it, and for the most part people will only treat it as an op war platform. Some clans I am sure would die out if they went a day without an op fight they are so adjusted to this. All diplomatics, role play, or consideration of another's enjoyment is replaced by "KILL KILL KILL" with selfish desires of immediate satisfaction. With how this game is, there is no real way to remove that mentality.
The best way I could see improving this situation is better ingame mechanics for alliances and diplomacy, maybe trade agreements such as clans recieving partial op bonuses for being allied to that clan, and a larger player count with more even disperstion of skill. Not only will people need a reason to hold an outpost, but a reason as well to not interfere with others holding an outpost too. This, may never happen for the entire game life, which is sad to admit, but all games have their limits.
well one side have the op have turrets etc etc i think its fair that the attackers have more peops becourse the defenders will throw turrets behind peops and among em to protect the op and as the turrets are now u casn do it again and again with no delapy so u need more attackers becourse u are fighting not only the other clan but the other clan + a LOT of turrets
FN you're right. (holy shit did i just say that?!)
Nice to read this kind of a post without loads of FF bashing in any way possible.
I'd go for belt drops on warzones for sure! then the winning
clan would get atleast some kind of reward for their victory..
http://images.synergyxr.net/144.jpg
That is Pluto tonight. Like PIMP, SXR has no desire to own the map. We have what we consider "core" OPs. One of each type. Why? Because that's the sensible thing to do.
Notice the correllation tho. The whole of the map is TG and the largest clan, 29 members larger then the 2nd clan in rank, is TG. This isn't a coincidence guys! If this is fun for TG, fine. Enjoy it while it lasts. Monopoly like this is one of the key killers to our player base.
The second largest clan/faction, Dark/Crahn usually holds about a quarter of the map, while SS/Tangent holds the other quarter. SS uses its agreements with other large clans (FF I believe) to limit their battles to reasonable fights. This is totally a smart thing to do, however, that leaves Tangent to their own, mostly unbothered except for the fights with clans their size, that they can handle. SS does very well and has a great precedence for membercount to skill ratio.
Third ranking clan/faction is DR of Tsunami. The only Tsunami owned OP on the map is Simmons. SXR have an agreement not to attack Simmons as they won't attack our core factory. I'm sure PIMP is bored out of their mind these days since they aren't at war with Dark or FF to my knowledge, and SS wont' bother to take a lone OP on the opposite side of the world.
There is a "core OP" theme going on here that some clans refuse to acknowledge. They want it all. Then I hear "Why shouldn't we have it all if we're strong enough?" The word strong should be replaced with "big". I've heard that from many clans as I've been running Synergy/SynergyXR since November of last year. And do you know how many clans have come and go since Synergy started? I think only SS and PIMP are 'old school' clans like ours.
I miss the days of TG having 'The Gang' and 'TR'. CityMercs having CMDS. BioTech having TgR. Black Dragons having ~CD~. Even EoB in Tangent (I think?). But there used to be strong, medium sized clans in most all of the factions. Why doens't anyone want to step up, start a BioTech clan and say hey, we're gonna head BioTech and these 5 OPs here, they're ours.
Zane Shadowfall has done a great job starting up REAL content behind the being of the Fallen Angels. The Phoenix store, Mirror-shades mercenary hacking guild, and opening TH in general as an open marketplace has been a great advancement for FA. If they're not going to have a large clan that can hold OPs, they are still becoming a vital part of the worldmap foodchain as hackers-for-hire (which matches well for anyone who has done the CA epic).
And it's nice to hear some players agreeing on both sides of the fence tho. I'm so tempted to try to arrange a meeting with Lore (FF), Delloda (Dark), Murkster (SS), Dark Asmodious (DR), Carinth (PIMP), Xtro (BRTF), Spirit (Spirit) and see if any clans are willing to try create a more evenly based clan distribution.
I'm not kidding guys. It's up to us to make NC (at least Pluto from my p.o.v.) more fun for *everyone*. I'd like to see PIMP, DR, and BRTF back on the OP map. From the CA point of view, we can fight FF or Dark. While it may be fun for FF, Dark, and SS to own the entirety of the OP map, I can only hope to see some players be a bit self-sacrificing for the good of Pluto. We need some more leaders to STEP UP!
omg, Ghostbusters II is on :wtf:
Easiest way to set up something that i can think of is to make OPs only be able to be taken by clans within a certain size. Like 2 OPs can only be taken by clans smaller that 20, 4 OPs can only be taken by clans smaller than 40 etc
Probably a much better way about going about it though
For a second I felt like you were onto something Nexxy hehe...
But it's no worse than my one owner-change an hour idea :(
10 Person clans could take one OP, 20 could take 2 OPs... maybe inversely? 100 person clans can have one OP, 90 can have two, etc :p
Ok, that's dumb too. But it's the start of a brainstorm :D
Zu (Pluto)
27-10-03, 01:09
Is there any way to limit the number of Ops a Clan can take? i.e. no Clan is able to own more than, say, 1 Op of each type. Or if that's too tricky as an implementation just say no single Clan can own more than 3 Ops. Justify with some in-game reason of about bandwidth or ID-load or something.
I've tried to guess/project the effects of this but just ended up typing a page of stuff that goes nowhere (which I don't think's worth posting). But how you do active fighting types seen such a limitation? Would it force more diplomacy between clans as they will have to ally, or would it just mean more fights non-stop all over the place. Or would it just be a dumb idea?
Zu
Sorry FN but I think arbitrary restrictions on how big a clan can be would be a really bad idea o_O
The ops game isn't about caring and sharing ops with other clans, it's about taking them by force. The clans with the most power of force can afford to take the most ops.
But you're right that it is kinda pointless taking ops and losing them again quickly. Always has been that way.
Cruzbroker
27-10-03, 02:25
Now just everyone joins * faction and * clan because of GR and protection o_O
err... hah :D
Random idea, which may or may not have merit ...
1) For an Op to be hacked the owning clan must have a minimum of xxx members online; if the clan has fewer than yyy members this requirement is not applied.
2) Once an Op has been successfully and fully hacked, a 90 minute countdown timer begins.
3) The timer is reset on any/all complete rehacks, and begins counting down again.
4) When the timer finally expires, the clan that performed that most recent hack "wins" and the Op becomes theirs, and is no longer hackable for a period of 24 hours.
This approach seems to:
limits the effects of ninja hacking; you take it back and lock it down again for 24 hours.
motivates moving quickly to rescue a hacked Op.
provides ample opportunity for repeated counter assaults to take and/or retake Ops so that either side can win.
provides a mechanism for enabling a raging battle of well matched teams that lasts for hours, with both sides variously taking and retaking the Op.
provides a clear victory condition that is signaled by a clan being able to hold the Op for the duration of the timer without it being counter hacked.
provides the benefits of the Op to the winning clan for a reasonable hassle free period of time.
admittedly does not prevent overwhelming forces from taking an Op, but that is argueably an issue best resolved by peer pressure among the players.
Comments? Alternative values for the timer, ownership period, and minimum online member count?
Edit: the sign out front on an Op should show the progress of the countdown timer if it is active, and checking out the status of an Op on a CityTerm should provide the same type of information.
Spook
Shadow Dancer
27-10-03, 02:45
I wonder how many people will go with the belt drops idea. It would actually be risk vs reward. Should you take holy antibuff? You know it pwns ppus but you only have 1 safe slot.
etc... shit like that
Dark/Crahn usually holds about a quarter of the map, while SS/Tangent holds the other quarter
Yeah... a quarter of the map may be purple, but count the OP's.
Generally we have 1 lab, factory, fortress, mine - and we get more when we get a hankering to fight an enemy.
I am not one of those "death must have more meaning" people. I do Op wars for the challenge of the fight, and usually have fun whether my side wins or loses, whether i rule with my sniper rifle or have my crispy-fried ass handed to me by an enemy APU. So for me, dropping a belt would not be fun. Since i carry multiple rare rifles into fights, which have always been very hard for me to acquire, i would fall back to carrying just one in order to avoid losing any. Your jollies may vary.
Spook
Shadow Dancer
27-10-03, 02:53
True, but it would stop people coming back 55555 times. Also, ppus would be more careful about trying to res the same person over and over if their not teamed. ;)
THIS is why i wanted beltdrop in op-zones again. it would simply stop ppl from coming back every time. for once, the stronger, better equipped party would actually win.
but nooooooooooo.... :p
BlackPrince
27-10-03, 02:59
Personally speaking, I know for a lot of us the OP game got old. Every fight is identical. To quote Marik on ts : "Snared, boosted, dead, Rezz'd".
After a while it becomes even more mind numbingly boring than jumping in with the Zerg in PS.
Something needs to be done to knock an enemy "Out for the Count" and give the winners something tangible to hold onto.
If it wasn't so much trouble, I'd ask that most of the Ops get redesigned by the Sadistic SOB who designed Soliko.
QuantumDelta
27-10-03, 03:11
And then you see the more conservative clans that just wanna have fun or are being gangbanged by large numbers not bother.
Meh.
Neocron hardcore vs Neocron for fun
I echo Kramer's word.
And I wonder where Carinth is.
For this to be realistic for any of the best PPUs... they'd need to drop prices on PPU Spells.
PEs would also get more fucked than tanks.
Spies wouldn't turn up at all apart from droning or rifling from extreme range.
so it makes op wars APUs vs Tanks.
Fun :p
well i want to op fight but since i rerolled i think we only have 3 hackers or less so that is out hehe untill we get new hackers or i gimp lol
but i had fun when i had my lil op fight well there was noone there but hey we were raped by ff 10 min later there lol
oh and i think ss have a nap with spirit not ff i think :p
ghandisfury
27-10-03, 03:32
Originally posted by TheEnemy
Sorry FN but I think arbitrary restrictions on how big a clan can be would be a really bad idea o_O
The ops game isn't about caring and sharing ops with other clans, it's about taking them by force. The clans with the most power of force can afford to take the most ops.
But you're right that it is kinda pointless taking ops and losing them again quickly. Always has been that way.
You are correct, it's not about caring and sharing.....but when a clan doubles your clan size, and you defeat them outnumbered and out "monked".......then they come back with more people (unclanned and allied faction with LEs in), you win again......finally after 2 hours of defending an OP outnumbered, outmonked, and without allies you get defeated by a force 3 times the size of your own....one starts to think "what's the point?".....why did I even try....."why did I waste my time with fighting if all they do is come back with more and more numbers?", and if they don't win they will just hack it tonight when we have two people on. (these are not flames, just pointing out what happens).
I guess the point that I am trying to get at is.......what_is_the point? When you can't even use the OP because you are constantly bombarded with more....and more......and more monk...er um people:angel:. Is there a point and I'm missing it? Most players cap their construction, research, hack...etc, and they don't give enough money to make *that* worth while.
*sigh* I don't have a solution.....just ranting.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
*sigh* I don't have a solution.....
I DO I DO *jumps up and down*
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80085
tbh some of the best fun ive had has been in the allied opwars, although 1 v 1 opwars are fun
(such as when myself, fenix and harbinger held off FF at the gates of hawkins for 5 minutes waiting for backup :D)
but i also am getting the 'whats the point' feeling
there was 4 nda on earlier including myself and we had 1 op, i GR out to do a bit of hunting nearby only to see a monk potshotting the turrets and iscared him off, so i spend a fortune and replace all the turrets(even kurai could not get past this defence) and i go off to hunt, when i get back all the turrets are dead (no death messages) so i say fuck it and go back to the city, 10 minutes later op = hacked.
while monopolising a servers ops may seem cool, its in no way fun, especially when you lock the genreps, how is a noob supposed to navigate the world?
on the night of the blackhill fight we had probably the most diverse selection of op owners i had seen in ages
SS/DARK/BRTF/FF/SPIRIT/PIMP/NDA/SXR
all had ops, with ally restrictions on the ops that allows anyone to travel at least somewhere.
i wouldnt like to see a specific number put on op holding, cos if a clan can only have 3, whats to stop a 100 player clan splitting into 4 clans of 25, and all helping each other out at fights...........its the same problem.
the underlying problem is the 'join TG' fad thats going on, im all for big clans, but voer 100 players is ludicrous, i think clans should be limited in size of 50, but that still doesnt solve the 10:1 numbers that happen.
i dont think there is a solution.
Originally posted by Lathuc
oh and i think ss have a nap with spirit not ff i think :p lol
That's about as far from the truth as you can get.
For many weeks we were the only people on the entire server that would take on SS at all :D
KRIMINAL99
27-10-03, 05:36
My ideas on the subject, along with ideas on other stuff :
ideas (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79521)
One of the ideas from OP I just took from planetside but it would work fine here lol.
i GR out to do a bit of hunting nearby only to see a monk potshotting the turrets and iscared him off, so i spend a fortune and replace all the turrets(even kurai could not get past this defence) and i go off to hunt, when i get back all the turrets are dead (no death messages) so i say fuck it and go back to the city,
There's a problem with turrets falling under the world right now. They sit above for a little bit, then sink. Apparently it's a bug.
FN, i do agree with u... me and lore have been talking about this for ages.. trust me, it does get old after a while... and we both think more clans should hold ops. I was thinking we put up an auction for the ops we dont 'need' ... i personally would like to see more clans on the map... but NC just doesnt have the player base ya know :rolleyes:
QuantumDelta
27-10-03, 06:48
Originally posted by and1guy
FN, i do agree with u... me and lore have been talking about this for ages.. trust me, it does get old after a while... and we both think more clans should hold ops. I was thinking we put up an auction for the ops we dont 'need' ... i personally would like to see more clans on the map... but NC just doesnt have the player base ya know :rolleyes: Before Syndicate pwn all our ops, SSC were equally talking to a "new" tangent clan (underworld) about letting them skirmish with equal numbers over crest uplink, (because we didn't really wanna "give" ops away and they didn't really wanna just "take ops" ) but uhh, things got in the way *cough*
KramerTheWeird
27-10-03, 08:16
PIMP had an op agreement with an up and coming biotech clan, fatal shadows, and gave them Tyron factory in exchange for large scale production like turrets. It was working well at first but everyone constantly attacked it, and even though we were able to get it back most of the time, I think it demotivated FS to the point were they didn't want it. Also our clan had been going through troubles too so it became harder and harder.
I also tried securing DRE on the map, but DRE clans that I came up to really didn't want to bother as they felt it'd be a waste of time and effort to secure an op only to have it ganked away immediately. And yes, BT and DRE are the only allies to TS.
Maybe a universal agreement to actively seek out faction allies and propose to clans in them to donate an op or two of theirs, in exchange for services based on those ops would be a great initial step for clans to help pepper the map with variety. See those clans as your investment, and develop them and help give them the encouragement and motivation to want to keep their territory.
Good post FN i tend to agree, but it was great fun to kill all those turrets, you guys did a great job in deffending the op. Rushed at the right times and so on. (props to ozambabbaz for stealthing and attacking us in the back)
Now Tyron dont matter much for FF its just the fight we are after...(atleast i think soo)
only read the first post but i had an idea but who cares ill just get flamed then again who cares so im gona post ithope this sounds good
op is hacked by clan op canot therfore be hacked back for a set amount of time this means that a clan that wins a op fight and gets owned by large no's of enemies can keep the op for at least a little while however it could end up a ninja hack problem so bah
anyway i like that dark owns most of the map on pluto makes me fel all fuzzy inside
IMO, ops should be restricted so that a particular faction can't hold more then one of each type. This makes perfect sence. The money you get from holding an op is acually paid by the faction, and why would the faction want more then one of a particular type of op?
If not one of each type, atleast some sort of restriction. It makes no sence that the faction would pay a clan for holding all the ops on the map.
Originally posted by Jaggeh
whats to stop a 100 player clan splitting into 4 clans of 25, and all helping each other out at fights...........its the same problem.
Yes, that's one of the problems that comes down to our players to solve, KK can't do anything about that.
--
@ pix
Then you'd have only one major clan per faction. Kind of a bad thing, but then would split clans into other factions as well, so kinda good.
@kurai my bad i sometimes get confused about who has a nap with who and what not hehe
dum de dum .........ponders whether I should go boot everyone I aint seen in 2 months from FF. Would it really make a difference? Would it make 5 of the 15 or so FF at tyron yesterday disappear?
There were what? 11 FF at the beginning an yea some were lowish level apus. Does that mean clans must only recruit the uber L337 or say - as some have - "only come if u are good". Its a game players log on players log off - and a few more logged on. Must they be told to leave - no-one wants em there coz maybe someone will go post about bringing more ppl on the forums?
The only reason we went back the second time was that we knew eventually u guys would run outta turrets (and thats how u killed us first time we went back - dropped em at our rear). I seem to recall a thread on these boards about using turrets and how lame/no skill bla bla ......... aaa forgot it was FF who used turrets then - lamers!
AS a side note I have been to attack u at tyron with 3 of us vs who knows how many - was about to log at 4 am and had the op hacked. U took it then - was that a win?
There is a very good reason why i ain't bothering to log onto pluto anymore...for now.
And FF has recruited 3 more monks since the my last post.
Glad to see this post made a difference :rolleyes:
You forgot the first rule of social evolution.
Everyone always wants to join the winning team.
[Edited. Stop. The. Spam. - Ulle]
Shadow Dancer
28-10-03, 08:44
Was that supposed to be Sheep sound? O_o
Naw, had something stuck in my throat as I walked through a nearby pasture - typed it out instead of saying it. *shrugs*
So I take it this means nobody and no active clans on Pluto have any interest in improving the balance and gameplay on our server? That's super.
Everyone juse join FF so that all of Pluto can be in it then you can own the whole map and never fight. That will be tons of fun.
Baaah.
Freaky Fryd
28-10-03, 17:08
Originally posted by ghandisfury
and if they don't win they will just hack it tonight when we have two people on. (these are not flames, just pointing out what happens).
Yeah, one of our OPs that we fought for hours for, was hacked back from us when we had 2 low-in-clan-ranking members, who are actually tradeskillers. The one that went to check out the situation, died to fire barrels at the UG...and had 6 monks standing over him while the 2nd hack was taken down...
That means at least 7 people showed up to take the OP back...and only after they gave up trying to take it when we had a decent amount of people online...
So, what was the point in spending hours defending this OP?
(including the 15-40 minute waits that can happen while the enemy regroups, pokes up, calls in allies, etc)
Originally posted by Nixon
I'd go for belt drops on warzones for sure! then the winning
clan would get atleast some kind of reward for their victory..
Except when fighting a clan that was smart enough to have a spy with Obliterator hanging around to collect the belts.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
and if they don't win they will just hack it tonight when we have two people on. (these are not flames, just pointing out what happens).
You could also change 'they' to 'we' as you have been doing it too.
(tyron factory, always hacked no matter how many FF has online)
I'm not flaming or anything, im just pointing it out.
Originally posted by -FN-
So I take it this means nobody and no active clans on Pluto have any interest in improving the balance and gameplay on our server? That's super.
There is no point, it would take everyone's cooperation to do something and we all know damn well that that ain't gonna happen so personally I don't see the point in even trying, unless you like wasting energy.
erm what did u just do ? u hacked 5 ops with 11+ gusy while we had 5 online
plz dont moan and bitch when u do excately the same
Was that supposed to be Sheep sound?
It was the sheep sound.
All I have to say to Pluto... Saturn... Baaah.
:rolleyes:
Freaky Fryd
28-10-03, 17:52
Originally posted by Nixon
You could also change 'they' to 'we' as you have been doing it too.
(tyron factory, always hacked no matter how many FF has online)
I'm not flaming or anything, im just pointing it out.
Please see SXR's website for the news update posted on 10/07/03. It makes note of Tyron being considered a core OP. As per our clan policies, if we lose possession of a core OP, we are to take it back as soon as possible and by any means necessary. We view it as ours, so we are simply taking back what was stolen from us.
It is the only factory we intend on taking and keeping.
- Is it a core OP for FF?
- Is FF obligated to take it back for a better reason than to make the map more FF's color?
- Is it the only Factory that FF holds? (making it that much more important to hold - if you have 3 and lose 1, you still have 2 more to do your work at, right?)
I'm not trying to imply or give hidden meaning in this post. My questions are simply to show the difference in apparent mentality. We view our OPs more as tools and items of value, rather than "just another OP we took"
Originally posted by solling
erm what did u just do ? u hacked 5 ops with 11+ gusy while we had 5 online
plz dont moan and bitch when u do excately the same
I believe we took one of each OP, which is what we needed for our work. If we wanted to adopt the mentality that runs rampant with some of the other clans, we would have taken all of your OPs, right? Why would we have stopped at 5 if we weren't taking only what we 'needed'?
Originally posted by Freaky Fryd
- Is it a core OP for FF?
- Is FF obligated to take it back for a better reason than to make the map more FF's color?
- Is it the only Factory that FF holds? (making it that much more important to hold - if you have 3 and lose 1, you still have 2 more to do your work at, right?)
- Nope
- Not really, we only take Tyron to pick a fight :p
- Nope
To be fair to FF, Lore contacted me and really wants to give FA some ops. He said himself he doesn't like owning so many. I'd be glad to take some off his hands but unfortunately I just don't think we have the man power right now. Maybe in a week or two though. Unfortunately, part of the point of ops is fun. And if no one is taking your ops and you want to have fun, what do you do? Take more ops.
Give it time. Everything balances out. Personally I'd really like to see BRTF take some more ops. I had no idea they were that big. Are they even a PvP clan?
ghandisfury
28-10-03, 19:18
Originally posted by solling
erm what did u just do ? u hacked 5 ops with 11+ gusy while we had 5 online
plz dont moan and bitch when u do excately the same
PLEASE!!:rolleyes:
We hacked 6 OPs with 6 people when you had 7 online. I think that's pretty descent odds.
Disturbed021
28-10-03, 20:56
Originally posted by solling
erm what did u just do ? u hacked 5 ops with 11+ gusy while we had 5 online
plz dont moan and bitch when u do excately the same
Please stop the numbers game.
PPl always seem to stretch the truth.
At one fight last night I died outside the OP so I had nothing better to do than count the numbers there while waitin for a rez. 4 PPUs, 4-5 APUs, one PE and a Droner around somewhere. That would be 10-11 ppl showed up at that particular OP.
So you had 5 huh? So 5-6 ppl were from another clan? (That could be as I think I saw some Spirit peeps runnin around at one of the OPs, didnt really pay much attention tbh, if I see red I try to kill it).
I could not tell you all the names as I was dead but believe me I know and everyone else knows how many peeps where there. I could guess at the names I saw on local when I was alive but I like to leave names out of forum posts anyways.
Again leave the numbers out of these things, ppl live in different timezones and play at different times so one clan is going to have an advantage in numbers early and one may have an advantage late depending on timezones.
Originally posted by Jest
Give it time. Everything balances out. Personally I'd really like to see BRTF take some more ops. I had no idea they were that big. Are they even a PvP clan?
We got bored of being outnumbered 3 to 1. So we changed tactics, dunno how it is now, not logged in Pluto for around a week so who knows.
well....... hmm maybe tell ff how many you got and we could try to even it out?
Originally posted by Nixon
(tyron factory, always hacked no matter how many FF has online)
Yeah, read what Freaky said about our Public announcement on our site. What you say there Nixon is 100% true, but only Tyron Factory as it's considered an SXR core OP. Yet you guys feel the need to take it back in the same manner knowing full well you have more factories.
Just today, ]XTC[ took screenshots of the 11 FF taking Hawkings Lab from our 5 online. Were you picking a fight then? Granted, we just took Hawkings for NDA to take back later, but with 110 people in a clan, don't you think it's a little sad that you guys don't even have the decency to wait until there are an even number of your opponent on?
Hell, we attacked Gravis last night with 9 people when you had 22 online! WTF more do you want that you have *still* play with no decency? Even ask PIMP, we used to only send the number of attackers to an OP that they had online or as close to it as we could. That made for FUN fights. You guys have no clue how to participate in OP wars at a level that would get any respect from your enemies. Swarm-and-monk is the core of your fights. If you've been a member of the community forums since the beginning of NC, you'd know that SXR has been around much longer than FF and any other enemy we've ever had and that most of those enemies have been fun for us to fight and have returned the compliment here on the forums. That's the type of clan I've been shooting for since Day One.
Hey PIMP & Apoc, remember NATO? Remember how much you hated that 30+ OP war person BS that led to you guys quitting OP holding for awhile? I know there are ex-PIMP & ex-Apoc members in FF, why can't you guys see that's exactly what you're doing again? The only way to solve it is for us to pull that NATO BS again and honestly, I don't want to do it. Clans have no self-reliance anymore, not counting clans that use 110 memberbases to keep OPs.
"But you guys don't you ninja all the time" I'm sure is the reply you just wanna type right up. Well go ahead, as long as you're only talking about Tyron because we made it PUBLIC that we were going to do that.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by -FN-
[B]
Hey PIMP & Apoc, remember NATO? Remember how much you hated that 30+ OP war person BS that led to you guys quitting OP holding for awhile? I know there are ex-PIMP & ex-Apoc members in FF, why can't you guys see that's exactly what you're doing again? The only way to solve it is for us to pull that NATO BS again and honestly, I don't want to do it. Clans have no self-reliance anymore, not counting clans that use 110 memberbases to keep OPs.
[QUOTE]
remember us wanting to ally because of not enuff euro pimps? (allways fighting outnummberd) but no that didnt do so now some of us have alts in FF, that have decent euro nummbers... I moved for the fights and im sure as hell getting em now :) besides casius(lore) been a friend of mine for since the start of pluto, it was the logical choice
*sigh*
Even if it crippled the membercount even more, I would still rather people have ONE account then fights would be the way they're supposed to be and then maybe KK would realize how deep in the shite they really are.
Someone said this before, but I agree. KK, at the moment, is screwed because the number of players DoY will bring is going to be way less than the number of players they have lost/will lose by the time they release DoY. Of course they won't admit that and just say things like "we're really excited about what we have planned" and "DoY is ready we're just waiting for a publisher!"...
Unless your publisher hits the US hardcore, gets TV commercials, and actually gets GOOD reviews out to the gaming communities, KK is wasting their time.
I hate to be negative guys, but all we see is the negative repurcussions of KK's decisions. And that they leave us, the paying customers, in the dark as much as they do, how can they ever expect us to see any more?
I dont think SXR will ever have even number op wars with FF as u seem to be on american time zones - always hacking when its 3-4 am. We seem to be mainly euro time zones - and many ppl leave their chars on overnight idling for whatever reasons. So u look at our numbers and hack as has happened when we have 3 - 5 actual ppl in the game.
Now b4 u think im complaining - its been accepted since the beginning of Pluto - if u cant keep an op at all hours u dont deserve the op. If u want to dm us and arrange even numbers u are welcome but its my experience that ppl - even really experienced players - cant estimate enemy numbers accurately.
Its also hard to know with u lot as sometimes u bring ur clan only - sometimes 3 others. I suggest if u want an even numbered fight dm Lore - ull find thats what he wants as well.
whoever has the op at the end of the day wins :)
Originally posted by Pill
whoever has the op at the end of the day wins :)
The end of the day in which timezone :p
Originally posted by ZigZag
I dont think SXR will ever have even number op wars with FF as u seem to be on american time zones - always hacking when its 3-4 am. We seem to be mainly euro time zones - and many ppl leave their chars on overnight idling for whatever reasons. So u look at our numbers and hack as has happened when we have 3 - 5 actual ppl in the game.
Now b4 u think im complaining - its been accepted since the beginning of Pluto - if u cant keep an op at all hours u dont deserve the op. If u want to dm us and arrange even numbers u are welcome but its my experience that ppl - even really experienced players - cant estimate enemy numbers accurately.
Its also hard to know with u lot as sometimes u bring ur clan only - sometimes 3 others. I suggest if u want an even numbered fight dm Lore - ull find thats what he wants as well.
Firstly I dont ever remember anyone agreeing to
Now b4 u think im complaining - its been accepted since the beginning of Pluto - if u cant keep an op at all hours u dont deserve the op.
And I've been playing since beta with a small gap over crimbo last year.
If that was the case where did the phrase 'ninja hack' come from?
Just cause you bring 10 people to an OP when you hack it, if the other clan isnt on its still a ninja hack, a cowards way that only proves you cant win in a fair fight :p
Also we only call on allies to even up the numbers in an op fight, not that I'm accusing you of doing different.
Originally posted by -FN-
And FF has recruited 3 more monks since the my last post.
Glad to see this post made a difference :rolleyes:
My screenshot from 3 days ago shows FF with 107.
They hit 11 yesterday.
They are now at 117.
Soooo many sheep on Pluto. I think I'm leaving until everyone grows up or KK gets a brain and sorts this out.
No clan should have more than 75 people. FF has as much power as one of those stupid claw things where you put the quarter in and try to pick up the stuffed animals. You know what game I mean. All they have is numbers and they know it.
And I love the posts on here from the FF saying "we don't like being so large" or "we don't like having so many OPs" but they won't stop propagating it themselves, so I'm not inclined to believe they really give a shit about Pluto itself at all.
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