View Full Version : Whats the deal with CDV?
So I see this new game coming out called Breed. So far I see posters and stands in electronic stores and advertisements in magazines and right in the bottom right corner of them is the little CDV logo. Why wasn't/isn't this kind of advertisment done for Neocron? Breed looks like a awesome game but from the way I understand it the user base of Neocron is brought in from word of mouth so far.
BlackPrince
23-10-03, 22:10
Because CDV didn't think Neo would succeed and decided to do their best to torpedoe it?
ha i lived that moment, cdv totally wasted KK and screwed up the advertising, i could tell joerg wasnt too happy with that :P
basically cdv thought neocron was a bad game and they where just wasting their sweet money by ading it, so they sent us to hell, one of the many reasons why nc doesnt have as many players as it was planned to :(
ghandisfury
23-10-03, 22:17
Originally posted by //Ring\\
ha i lived that moment, cdv totally wasted KK and screwed up the advertising, i could tell joerg wasnt too happy with that :P
basically cdv thought neocron was a bad game and they where just wasting their sweet money by ading it, so they sent us to hell, one of the many reasons why nc doesnt have as many players as it was planned to :(
no, bugs, sinc errors, lack of balance, lack of high level content, campocron, monkocron, fatals, and KK giving a shit less about you is the main reason they don't have the players they should.
actually my good man back in beta 3-4 KK was praised for being very listening to their players, and they sure where i must say ;)
the sync bug that has existed since the day this game went public is a good reason, KK once got a perfect patch and it was all balanced, i think it was 146 or somewhere around that, then all the players went TG and unbalaced the game camping the training spots, so that wasnt really KKs fault u know
cdv screwing them up right then didnt help much either
BlackPrince
23-10-03, 22:23
Things change Ring, after release the general attitude KK had towards the playerbase was one of contempt, well at least for one segment of that population.
Blame CDV for the lack of new players all you want. Its KKs fault that so many old players have left (if you compare numbers its been less than 40% retention rate over the course of 1 year).
KidWithStick
23-10-03, 22:26
Originally posted by //Ring\\
actually my good man back in beta 3-4 KK was praised for being very listening to their players, and they sure where i must say ;)
the sync bug that has existed since the day this game went public is a good reason, KK once got a perfect patch and it was all balanced, i think it was 146 or somewhere around that, then all the players went TG and unbalaced the game camping the training spots, so that wasnt really KKs fault u know
cdv screwing them up right then didnt help much either
yea...in BETA
this isnt BETA...its retail, and it does seem like they kinda...forgot about us...
but whatever...i know DoY isnt going to be an amazing new installment that everyone is going to come back to and stay and go OMG this is uber, but hopefully with a new priblisher and better selling tactics neocron can add ATLEAST a few hundred more active players daily...
hopefully..
ghandisfury
23-10-03, 22:28
Originally posted by KidWithStick
yea...in BETA
this isnt BETA...its retail, and it does seem like they kinda...forgot about us...
but whatever...i know DoY isnt going to be an amazing new installment that everyone is going to come back to and stay and go OMG this is uber, but hopefully with a new priblisher and better selling tactics neocron can add ATLEAST a few hundred more active players daily...
hopefully..
It's highley doubtfull. I know that if the problems aren't fixed then I am going to be_the_worst publicity that any game has ever seen. There is litteraly no reason to play this game when all that happens is you getting hacked, and them (stephan bast) telling you to stfu.
u see the thing with KK is that they nerf, then when they try to fix it they go overboard and nerf it more and they keep adding features while at it so eventually the game goes from tankocron to monkocron then to pecron and now back to monkocron, only this time monks cant have any ppu to heal or shelter themselves with no they need pure skill, thats just really bad imo every monk should at least be able to not feed on rat meat 0.o
O_o
So much contempt for KK...and yet I saw some posts by CoDi and MJS recently...
Makes me wonder if any of you have any idea why they haven't really addressed any of the current issues yet.
Of course, I know what the response will be...
Okay, i know, you shouldnt judge a book by its cover, but i did: the cover art on the box is kinda crappy, looks amateurish and did not excite me at all, even turned me off for some reason - i figured crappy art, crappy game, and walked away from it. Wonder how many others did the same. They used the same art in their magazine ads. Bletch. So to some extent this may have been a factor in reduced sales as well. Dunno.
But for some reason i no longer remember i did buy it some weeks later and have been playing it ever since. Hope their re-issue looks more professional and is an attention grabber.
Spook
ghandisfury
23-10-03, 22:37
Originally posted by Kenjuten
O_o
So much contempt for KK...and yet I saw some posts by CoDi and MJS recently...
Makes me wonder if any of you have any idea why they haven't really addressed any of the current issues yet.
Of course, I know what the response will be...
Loosing 4 slotted pain easers, 5 slotted libs, 3 slotted CS, researcher gloves, implant gloves ALL DO TO KK's FUCK UPS makes it to where it no_longer_matters. [Edited for Flaming - Gungnir] , I am in the middle of writing a review on two different forums right now. I can only hope that in some way I can shield people from the timesinc/moneypit that is called Neocron.
NS_CHROME54
23-10-03, 23:00
Originally posted by MegaCorp
Okay, i know, you shouldnt judge a book by its cover, but i did: the cover art on the box is kinda crappy, looks amateurish and did not excite me at all, even turned me off for some reason - i figured crappy art, crappy game, and walked away from it. Wonder how many others did the same. They used the same art in their magazine ads. Bletch. So to some extent this may have been a factor in reduced sales as well. Dunno.
But for some reason i no longer remember i did buy it some weeks later and have been playing it ever since. Hope their re-issue looks more professional and is an attention grabber.
Spook
that wasn't the original box design
NS_CHROME54
23-10-03, 23:01
http://www.neocroncentral.net/images/gallery/albums/miscellaneous/NeocronCover.jpg
BlackPrince
23-10-03, 23:02
SO why'd they go for the shitty one then? THat old one rocks.
NS_CHROME54
23-10-03, 23:05
Originally posted by BlackPrince
SO why'd they go for the shitty one then? THat old one rocks.
we may never know.
twas a sad sad day when KK decided to not use this design.
[EDIT] OR maybe it was cause they mispelled "Version" in the top left corner :rolleyes:
RuriHoshino
23-10-03, 23:07
Originally posted by NS_CHROME54
we may never know.
twas a sad sad day when KK decided to not use this design.
[EDIT] OR maybe it was cause they mispelled "Version" in the top left corner :rolleyes:
Was it KK who decided or CDV?:confused:
KidWithStick
23-10-03, 23:10
Originally posted by RuriHoshino
Was it KK who decided or CDV?:confused:
probably KK
RuriHoshino
23-10-03, 23:15
I was wondering, because it does have the CDV logo on the bottom right (which with marketers gives them a large say).
[Removed for Flaming - Gungnir]
For those of you who know about JumpGate....
DoY reminds me so much of Ep2...
Same situation...everyone thought Ep2 would save the game but it was just the official begining of the end.
geez, you guys posting "blah blah blah this game sucks because it has bugs no other game i play ever had bugs blah blah blah i dont know why i am staying blah blah blah seriously why am i staying? i must be stupid! blah blah blah"... dont you get bored of posting the same POS over and over and over again? just do all of us including yourselves a favour and leave already. why play something you obviously dont enjoy?
back to topic. it looks like CDV is very close to taking the big dive anyway. and it serves them right, i say.
they sure do deserve, i for one would never trust anything cdv says or promises after what they did to KK
It really is to bad. To think of what Neocron could of been with a better publisher. Maybe with the money from more customers KK would of been able to get more developers or even uber... uhh er.. developers to fix some of the problems of the game.
From the way some people talk you would have thought that KK never listen to the players, never fix bugs and exploits and generally don't release patches. What about the numerous times 'fix <this>' or 'fixed <that>' (eg. Researching rares in NF just for starters) have appeared in patch notes?
IMO DoY and the new publisher will take Neocron one of 3 ways:
1) It will crash and burn.
2) It will bring lots of new players and lots of good changes.
3) It will continue along at its current 'not going down, not going up' pace.
On the note of Nerfs, have you ever thought that maybe KK listen to the players TOO MUCH. Maybe a big enough part of the community voted for the nerfs in one of the many polls so KK decided to put it in. Hybrid nerf was suggested by players, as have many other nerfs and changes that have gone into patches.
From what I heard KK used to give items back but this was exploited BY THE PLAYERS so they could get a 5 slot CS having never lossed one.
Many people blame far too much on KK. What about the players? IMO it's the players who make an MMORPG what it is.
Athon Solo
Originally posted by Crashtec
For those of you who know about JumpGate....
DoY reminds me so much of Ep2...
Same situation...everyone thought Ep2 would save the game but it was just the official begining of the end.
I've said a few times that I think DOY will be EP2 for Neocron :(
The cover is misleading, These buildings are bladerunner like while neocron is not (enough)
but of course it could be. And why dont we petition CDV?
Originally posted by athon
From the way some people talk you would have thought that KK never listen to the players, never fix bugs and exploits and generally don't release patches. What about the numerous times 'fix <this>' or 'fixed <that>' (eg. Researching rares in NF just for starters) have appeared in patch notes?
Um... For starters because a few weeks later it would appear again as "Finally fixed <this>". And then in an emergency patch it woula again come up as "Really fixed <this> this time". And then finally a few more weeks after that "Unfixed <this> back to the way it was before" (Yay, I just downloaded 10MB of patches that did absolutely nothing.)
Not to mention the fact that other companies release patches much faster, their patches are always well documented BEFORE the patch occurs and everything they plan to patch comes with the patch! So there are no suprises, no hidden "easter eggs" (read nerfs) and most often they have been sufficiently tested that they will work. They may not be final and may need more tweaking, but they don't totally break the game like the now infamous PE bug or the old synch bug which I'm sure everyone remembers when you couldn't go in or out of sewers without getting instantly stuck in perma-sync. So yes, they do release patches, but sometimes it makes me think that this game is run and supported by an over-eager pimply-faced computer nerd living in his mom's basement than an actual company.
I mean check out the front page: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
What do you see? NEWS! Is it because SOE has millions of dollars to spend on that page to keep the community updated to events in and out of game? Or maybe it takes one person about 5-10 minutes of their time once a day to maintain such a thing? (Heck, this could be done by volunteer GMs or heck, even FCs!)
Next, direct your eyes to this page here: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/recent_test_updates.jsp?page=In%20Testing
Is that a patch already implemented? No, it's a patch they have finished making and are testing. It is NOT on the retail servers yet, but if it is proven stable and reliable it will be added to retail!
Or how about this one: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/in_development.jsp?page=In%20Development
Dare I say this is a PLAN on what they intend to do in the coming weeks?
See? That's how a REAL company acts. They may not have the CEO comming to user forums bragging about his latest Rolex watch or chatting it up with some of the regulars, but you know what. They act like a respectable company, not some two-bit operation. And this is no a matter of money ladies and gentlement. None of the URLs I posted above cost an extra dime to make. They are just a difference between a real company and a mickey mouse company. (Hope some of the geeks among you get that reference :D )
Originally posted by athon
IMO DoY and the new publisher will take Neocron one of 3 ways:
1) It will crash and burn.
2) It will bring lots of new players and lots of good changes.
3) It will continue along at its current 'not going down, not going up' pace.
As I said in another thread, it was an official announcement that DoY is nothing but additional game and visual content. Nothing has been done to the actual engine itself and from events we all know how unstable servers and clients get when there are more than a dozen or maybe at most couple of dozen runners in the same area. So I don't see how anyone can realistically expect an influx of new players. I mean, sure players *MIGHT* come, but then the servers will be pushed to maximum, client bugs as well as server bugs will become more apparent. Database will crash and burn daily and they will all leave just as fast as they came (if they do come). See, the main problem is in the engine itself and Neocron will NEVER be a successful game simply because KK cannot remake the engine, and the problems with it will never allow for the game to have more than maybe 500 users per server at any one time.
Originally posted by athon
On the note of Nerfs, have you ever thought that maybe KK listen to the players TOO MUCH. Maybe a big enough part of the community voted for the nerfs in one of the many polls so KK decided to put it in. Hybrid nerf was suggested by players, as have many other nerfs and changes that have gone into patches.
From what I heard KK used to give items back but this was exploited BY THE PLAYERS so they could get a 5 slot CS having never lossed one.
Many people blame far too much on KK. What about the players? IMO it's the players who make an MMORPG what it is.
Athon Solo
Yes, however they only chose to listen to part of the votes. There is always the majority vote of "We want <this> provided <that> is done." KK always do the <this> but very rarely the <that>. Like for instance the infamous GR locking patch. This was a majority vote PROVIDED we get more public GRs, more ASGs and vehicle CODE gets fixed. Well... We got the GRs... We got Vehicles fixed (But not actual vehicle code, meaning you still zone to find yourself stuck/lost/without your vehicle or whatever and end up running wherever you wanted on foot. Not to mention no ASGs to park vehicles or respawn a new vehicle if that happens). Also no new GRs were added though both ASGs and GRs were promised by KK! That was an official statement made I believe by Thanatos?
As for the hybrid nerf, it wasn't a nerf, it was murder. The idea behind it was sound, the way it was being tested on test server was ok, but they didn't let it test out on the test server long enough, and when porting it to retail they once again screwed up and turned it into a sledgehammer nerf. The original was supposed to be UP TO (yes, UP TO) 20% reduction in effectiveness of spells of the opposite school of thought (APU vs. PPU). The final was a flat 30% cut, which is an atrocity of the worst kind in my opinion. And I'm quite certain was made to kill Hybrids once and for all by making them totally unplayable!
And yes, some players exploited that opportunity to get items they never had. But that doesn't mean that it's ok for KK to wipe my apartment in a bug (they should have fixed that database a long time ago really) and then pay me 100k for my losses because even though they have a backup copy of my apartment in the old backup database, they will not do a roll-back simply because I was the only one affected by the bug. And even though they can verify I really did have all those items in my cabinets, they cannot verify that I didn't sell it all or trade it all away or move it elsewhere and hence millions and millions nc worth of lost items will only be compensated by 100k. That is called laziness and just plain poor customer service.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
no, bugs, sinc errors, lack of balance, lack of high level content, campocron, monkocron, fatals, and KK giving a shit less about you is the main reason they don't have the players they should.
None of those things have stopped any of the more successful MMORPGs. EQ is/was 100x worse on every single point you mention (or it's EQ equivalent).
Originally posted by Lareolan
I mean check out the front page: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
What do you see? NEWS! Is it because SOE has millions of dollars to spend on that page to keep the community updated to events in and out of game? Or maybe it takes one person about 5-10 minutes of their time once a day to maintain such a thing? (Heck, this could be done by volunteer GMs or heck, even FCs!)
Next, direct your eyes to this page here: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/recent_test_updates.jsp?page=In%20Testing
Is that a patch already implemented? No, it's a patch they have finished making and are testing. It is NOT on the retail servers yet, but if it is proven stable and reliable it will be added to retail!
Or how about this one: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/in_development.jsp?page=In%20Development
Dare I say this is a PLAN on what they intend to do in the coming weeks?
News (http://www.neocron.com/index.php?name=NeoContent&op=modload&file=index&pageID=80)
Upcoming patches (http://neocron.jafc.de/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=52)
KK do need to get plan files and their PR back up to speed but some of us are adult and professional enough to understand that a company in the middle of private contract negotiations does not get into a public debate over them.
/edit 1 - apologies for double post.
/edit 2 - Anyone else here laughing their ass off at seeing SOE used as an example of how to make a decent game?
BTW people CDV have delayed Breed. so it treats all it's games with equal contempt.:D
I posted that at the german forum yesterday ;)
New releasedate is 6th of february.
I donīt believe that CDV will still exist at this date any more.
So what... ?
I also belive that if DOY donīt be released until beginning of december that kk wont get as much customers as planed.
PS: Sorry for my english. But its better than 'Google-English'!!!
Any of you consider, how many people work at KK? And if CDV would have done better adverising, there would have been more players. More players = more money. More money = more people could be employed. And that could have been the solution for fixing so many bugs we face right now. So i would be blaming CDV if i were MJS, cause i personally think the game design itself is great and better advertisement would have been benefitial to all of us.
Xaru
well said Xaru, all MMORPG's have always had bugs and problems and all need to be constantly updated so stop flaming KK! I have only been playing the game for 2 weeks and the tech and player support is brilliant and the ingame atmosphere is superb (although not sure about the sexing!) and so many players have offered advice and help! If the rest of the game world outside of Neocron city is just half as good then KK have done a superb job!
ahhh i see what you mean fair point! :D
Originally posted by jernau
News (http://www.neocron.com/index.php?name=NeoContent&op=modload&file=index&pageID=80)
That is not news, that's fiction and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual game.
Originally posted by jernau
Upcoming patches (http://neocron.jafc.de/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=52)
That's in no way a measure of upcoming patches considering the fact that they are never tested before applying those patches to retail server AND are never the same way. I have yet to see them come up with a patch for TS and then use the same patch, without any last moment sledgehammer nerfs, on the retail servers. NEVER seen that happen.
Originally posted by jernau
KK do need to get plan files and their PR back up to speed but some of us are adult and professional enough to understand that a company in the middle of private contract negotiations does not get into a public debate over them.
Maturity has nothing to do with it. In fact if you're so mature as you claim, then you should realize that any company acting so unprofessionally is not a company you would want to do business with. Which is why I think KK will have problems finding a publisher that's not even worse POS than CDV was.
Originally posted by jernau
/edit 2 - Anyone else here laughing their ass off at seeing SOE used as an example of how to make a decent game?
Where exactly did I use SOE as an example on how to make a decent game? Can you not read? I was talking about communication with your clients and professionalism. Something SOE has and KK doesn't. You might not think much of it, but you know what, money is not what attracts people to Sony's games. There is more to that equation than just funding for the project. But nowhere in my post did I say anything about SOE's games. I was only talking about the webpages that they maintain as a way to let the community know what's going on at all times. Something KK thinks we don't need, along with working game patches, balanced nerfs (instead of sledgehammers) and new content.
Originally posted by Matt_149
well said Xaru, all MMORPG's have always had bugs and problems and all need to be constantly updated so stop flaming KK! I have only been playing the game for 2 weeks and the tech and player support is brilliant and the ingame atmosphere is superb (although not sure about the sexing!) and so many players have offered advice and help! If the rest of the game world outside of Neocron city is just half as good then KK have done a superb job!
Which server/faction do you play? And regardless once you leave the city you're in for a big disappointment. Enjoy...
Originally posted by Lareolan
Maturity has nothing to do with it. In fact if you're so mature as you claim, then you should realize that any company acting so unprofessionally is not a company you would want to do business with. Which is why I think KK will have problems finding a publisher that's not even worse POS than CDV was.
... I was talking about communication with your clients and professionalism.
Well, i agree, KK is not very professional in that aspect, but that is mainly because every day only has 24 hours. What you expect would need a whole lot more people involved on the project. Neocron is a complex system and as far as i know, there are only 3 coders and soem freelancers. And those people can either talk to us, or try to fix important issues.
Originally posted by Lareolan
There is more to that equation than just funding for the project.
Well, here you are wrong. Money has alot to do with this. Or do you think good programmers work for free? Even if KK wanted to fulfill all our wishes, they just cant.
And if you are pissed, then its probably because you played too much :) We are in need of more content, but i can also understand, that KK cant afford that at the moment.
Unfortunately, i am afraid, Neocron wont be growing alot, because of a missing good publisher. And KK just doesnt have the resources or the time to do it themselves.
So stop whining around, and better be constructive with your criticism, because thats what is needed most.
Xaru
I <heart> KK forever, since beta 4 and even now.
I <burning in hell> CDV forever and ever. I <watch your language mister!> that <only one more warning!> piece of <ok that's it, you're on vacation from now!> .. *click*
:mad:
Do I need to draw a picture to make myself understood? Don't think so.
...Lare...
I'm not gonna comment on all you've said, but I honestly think you're just wanting to ignore.
Neochronicle and NEMA may be fictious, but so is our world. In any case, most of the news articles ARE ingame.
*peers* Hm...But I suppose you wouldn't know that.
Lare, the way u talk about Neocron would make anyone think that all other MMORPGs which have ever come out have been a great success from the start with no bugs at all.
Your point on SOE who have good communication with their customers, erm yes good point but that doesnt make the game any better. I would say that KK, although they arnt perfect with communication, they aint terrible either.
For a company who is missing crucial funding, i'd say that overall KK are doing a pretty good job.
I agree with Xaru on the fact that money is extremely important. I'd say that the money a company has is easily one of the most important deciding factors on whether the game crashes or burns.
Which server/faction do you play? And regardless once you leave the city you're in for a big disappointment. Enjoy...
I dont know wat server/faction u play or played as but not all of the people playing neocron are mindless pkers.
i just saw this flash, and i thought itd fit here quite well ;)
well part of ncs bad success is cdvs fault, the other part isthis (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tetsu0/attempt1.html )
Originally posted by //Ring\\
i just saw this flash, and i thought itd fit here quite well ;)
well part of ncs bad success is cdvs fault, the other part isthis (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tetsu0/attempt1.html )
LOL! That made my day! Hehe! That was just hilarious! Thank you so much for that piece of sunshine on a bad day like today. :D
lol anytime bro, one of my fav things to do in nc when i have nothing else to do (about 70% of the time :rolleyes:) is amuse people, and u can ask fen on that one! :P
but we should thank whoever made it, its frekin hilarious
HAIL NEOCRON!
I think we do a pretty good job with the approximately 16 of us + a few very good volunteers.
I think RPG Vault (http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/382/382567p1.html) said it best:
Debut Game of the Year
Neocron
Reakktor.com
In an era when the size of development teams for single-player games can exceed 50 people and those for online worlds can be even larger, Neocron is a well received first release made even more intriguing so by the knowledge that its German development team numbered approximately 15.
All I ask for out of a new publisher is to get the game on shelves and keep it there. People shouldn't have to hit numerous stores and in some cases drive 6 hours like some did back during the initial release. Just keeping the game on shelves and available would make a nice impression into sales/subscriptions which in turn gives us the room to hire those couple coders that we would love to bring in. Plus I'd like to see a little less drama from the next release (games for entire countries (poland) shipped without cdkeys, North American games shipped then sent back because of the "+" in the keys despite us already having fixed the issue before the recall and then having to scream at people to return those trucks around and of course just getting the game on more shelves).
NS_CHROME54
24-10-03, 19:59
fate said it best (an insider's knowledge of things helps with that kinda thing i think)
well i did see some neocron cds at a mall the other day.. the bad part is its the mall no one goes to thats in like the 5th hell.. so ya thats cdvs fault right in front of ya :P
Originally posted by jernau
News (http://www.neocron.com/index.php?name=NeoContent&op=modload&file=index&pageID=80)
Upcoming patches (http://neocron.jafc.de/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=52)
KK do need to get plan files and their PR back up to speed but some of us are adult and professional enough to understand that a company in the middle of private contract negotiations does not get into a public debate over them.
/edit 1 - apologies for double post.
/edit 2 - Anyone else here laughing their ass off at seeing SOE used as an example of how to make a decent game?
Well I think they did ok SWG is a great game imo, you can actually control what happens to ur char :D
I still like Neocron tho dispite its problems
Vampire222
24-10-03, 23:07
The main thing about EVERYTHING in the world is.... What noone knows, doesnt matter to them... eg nukes and aids....
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