My idea for balance according to Class roles

[Judge]

Ok, well I have been thinking about the various classes and what their roles are meant to be, well as I view them.

Tanks:

Should be the master of OP wars, these guys are the bread and butter of most military operations. They can take alot of fire and give out a solid wall of plasma in return but don't move so much

Changes:

Whilst in a warzone Tanks get +5 to Body health, Melee and Heavy also (once again only in warzone) whilst in a team, which is in the same area (local), with other tanks the tank gets an additional +1 to the skills above for each tank in the team up to an additional +5. Thus +10 is available for each tank at max.

Increase the resists on tank armour Duranium and tank PA significantly.

Increase the -ve to ath on PA

APU monks:

A rather more specialialised attack unit, they operate at a higher range (slightly) than tanks and noramlly hide behind the fleshy wall of a team of tanks.

Changes:

Decrease APU range by 50%

Lower RoF slightly

Increase Poison and Fire damage

PPU monks:

They support the tanks and APUs.

Changes:

Make parashock not work in PvP, only PvM.

Decrease Heal effectiveness on others by 25%

Whilst ressurection takes place all Heals and Shelters on the PPU stop

PPUs are able to override lesser buffs and heals with higher TLs

PE:

PE's are the master of duelling, they depend on their high speeds and high amount of skill to set up and use. They don't have that much of a use in the OP fight, though they are sometimes useful for infiltration and scouting. Rifle PEs are more useful in an OP fight, whereas Pistol PEs are better at dueling.

No changes.... PEs seem to be the best balanced class

Spys:

Spys are tech masters. They have uses in infilatration and sniping. They also make the best tradeskillers.

Changes:

Add in a sniper weapon mod (not ammo) that makes the weapon ignore deflectors.

Add in a spy only device that stops heals at medium range.

Increase the XP gained from tradeskilling and decrease the specialisation and time needed in research.


So what do you guys think?

[Ryleck]

I likes it all cept the apu and spy changes, spys are pretty uber, but they shouldent be killin ppus like md with the sh =P

and the apu range nerf i dont like. pvp aside apus are the BITCH to cap being theyre twigs. and if they suck that badly and u can cap one u deserve the range. besides in pvm u need the range to fight shit like wbs and not get pwned at earler levels

[Judge]

Originally posted by Ryleck
spys are pretty uber, but they shouldent be killin ppus like md with the sh =P

Spys are uber? Right. Well what should be killing PPUs? Something must, and a single spy with a SH would not kill a PPU alone even with the deflector passing ammo, they can still heal at an ungodly rate at themselves. Possibly two or three spies together would kill the PPU. It would give the PPUs something to fear.


Originally posted by Ryleck
and the apu range nerf i dont like. pvp aside apus are the BITCH to cap being theyre twigs. and if they suck that badly and u can cap one u deserve the range. besides in pvm u need the range to fight shit like wbs and not get pwned at earler levels

APUs suck badly? You sure you haven't got spys and APUs mixed up? Well basically APUs can shoot around corners so they aren't a bitch to level because the mob they are shooting at can't hit them most of the time. Why should APUs have the abaility to shoot further than Cannons/pistols and have such amazing attack? If a tank runs at an APU he will be dead before his cannon has a chance to aim...

[TheDuckMan]

Ok FFS, maybe this game is more balanced then people think. its just 70% of the people that complain most likely dont know how to make a good character or dont wanna take the time. I know some awsome tanks (GENO you know I am talkin about you) that a monk cannot beet (with buffs). These guys/girls are people that take the time to work out there resists, see what works and what doesnt, go huntin for about 2 months to get all the weapons they need. Even spies can be awsome. I am not trying to feed ego's or compliment people, but Divide has one of the best spies i have ever seen (dont let this goto your head divide :lol: dont worry morrow that was for you to ;)). It would take alot to beet him.

Also about the PPU issue. If you dont like that someone has a ppu and you dont have one. Go out and find a ppu and hire one or something. Dont site there and fight an apu and ppu at once. Thats plain stupid.


Those are my thoughts on the balance issues.

EDIT: spelling & grammer

[Judge]

Originally posted by TheDuckMan
Ok FFS, maybe this game is more balanced then people think. its just 70% of the people that complain most likely dont know how to make a good character or dont wanna take the time. I know some awsome tanks (GENO you know I am talkin about you) that a monk cannot beet (with buffs). These guys/girls are people that take the time to work out there resists, see what works and what doesnt, go huntin for about 2 months to get all the weapons they need. Even spies can be awsome. I am not trying to feed ego's or compliment people, but Divide has one of the best spies i have ever seen (dont let this goto your head divide :lol:). It would take alot to beet him.

Yes lets all quote the best characters on the server and use them as examples which should fit the entire majority of average players. /sarcasm

Oh and GENO? Heehee. :p


Originally posted by TheDuckMan
Also about the PPU issue. If you dont like that someone has a ppu and you dont have one. Go out and find a ppu and hire one or something. Dont site there and fight an apu and ppu at once. Thats plain stupid.


You |---------------------------------------------------------------------| The point

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Judge
Ok, well I have been thinking about the various classes and what their roles are meant to be, well as I view them.

Tanks:

Should be the master of OP wars, these guys are the bread and butter of most military operations. They can take alot of fire and give out a solid wall of plasma in return but don't move so much

Changes:

Whilst in a warzone Tanks get +5 to Body health, Melee and Heavy also (once again only in warzone) whilst in a team, which is in the same area (local), with other tanks the tank gets an additional +1 to the skills above for each tank in the team up to an additional +5. Thus +10 is available for each tank at max.

Increase the resists on tank armour Duranium and tank PA significantly.

Increase the -ve to ath on PA
I like that, especially the bonus for team mates...
I would Seriously increase Tank AoE damage as well....
Then it seems okay to me.



APU monks:

A rather more specialialised attack unit, they operate at a higher range (slightly) than tanks and noramlly hide behind the fleshy wall of a team of tanks.

Changes:

Decrease APU range by 50%

Lower RoF slightly

Increase Poison and Fire damage


Decrease maximum random damage very slightly.
Increase minimum random damage by 75% of the decreased maximum damage proportion. :p

Lower Mana Costs slightly... on every single spell.


PPU monks:

They support the tanks and APUs.

Changes:

Make parashock not work in PvP, only PvM.

Decrease Heal effectiveness on others by 25%

Whilst ressurection takes place all Heals and Shelters on the PPU stop

PPUs are able to override lesser buffs and heals with higher TLs
25% of heal damage decrease on self-cast heals too, I'd say.
Possibly this instead;
S/D "reduction" made 25% instead of 50%.
Heal on others made 50% instead of 100%.

Agreed otherwise.


PE:

PE's are the master of duelling, they depend on their high speeds and high amount of skill to set up and use. They don't have that much of a use in the OP fight, though they are sometimes useful for infiltration and scouting. Rifle PEs are more useful in an OP fight, whereas Pistol PEs are better at dueling.

No changes.... PEs seem to be the best balanced class
The reason why PEs aren't so good at op fights are;
Their defence is no longer an advantage.
Their offence is not sufficient to compete with tanks/spies/monks.

However PEs can be independant units, stealthing, damage boosting, healing and stuff...
I'd agree that they're more or less balanced.


Spys:

Spys are tech masters. They have uses in infilatration and sniping. They also make the best tradeskillers.

Changes:

Add in a sniper weapon mod (not ammo) that makes the weapon ignore deflectors.

Add in a spy only device that stops heals at medium range.

Increase the XP gained from tradeskilling and decrease the specialisation and time needed in research.


So what do you guys think?
Nice;
Fix clipping too and they'll be all good... :p

Ryleck, APU Beam Range is too high, APU Barrel range is too low.
Holy Lightning and Energy Beam damage is also very slightly too high, while Fire Apoc is very slightly too low, and Poison Beam is fairly underpowered (though far from useless).

[mdares]

i agree with everythging tho i'm not too sure about the rof idea on apus. the reason is that the noted 105/min only happens when u cast standing still; if u run the rof is slower by 1/3. So in essence we're already doing 70/min... now if u lower that to like 50... well... thats gonna suck as a ppu can cast heal faster than that...

my idea: change range as u said; make RoF on spells 100/min... so HL and others get a small minus while boosting FA so it wil see more use... (right now its the most underuntilized spell, next to barrels) increase rof of anti-blah spells to 26/min instead of 21 (26/min is 1/2 the rof of a capped shelter/heal/def so its still in balance) then decrease the mana cost of all spells by roughly 10-15%.

[Stigmata]

the current 105 rof on HL is only 105 for 4 seconds then your mana is gone, now if you constantly banging psi boosters down you can maintain the 105 rof for 7-9 seconds (this is based on a psi pool of 340) so the current 105 rof is tbh bullshit.

accepted in the first 4-9 seconds a apu can take down anyone but a ppu if he/she was to hit every/most shots.

the tank boost would be nice, but i am struggling to find a reason why people would use a tank over an APU even with these boosts.

then we take into account the ammount of ppu's on each and every server and we get one long endless op war.

The boosts would be nice and i like this idea, BUT i dont see this as a solution to "monkocron" the main thing with monkocron is ppu's in my opinion.

Andy

[Judge]

Well I was thinking when I wrote up those chages was... to make every class useful.

So tanks are useful because when they team up together they get more defence and more offence.

APUs and PPUs are obviously still useful. But Parashock is no longer PvP and heals are less good on others... which means that you can't just stand in front of a PPU and be sure to stay alive with massive heals. So the APU+PPU combo isn't as powerful as before.

PEs are same.

Spies are useful because when Rezzing PPUs lose shelt... then SPies can manually remove def from up close or use a bullet which gets past deflector. So that whilst rezzing a PPU can be very vunerable.

[evs]

only real problem is some stuff (esp spy stuff) means a change to the engine which wont happen

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm only going to respond to apus and tanks.


The tank change is not enough ATM. I think tanks should have terrifying AOE powers. You know what I mean. :p THeir aoe should be vastly improved.


As for APU, well their energy max random damage needs to be toned down, and their minmin random damage needs to be increased. That way it's not a nerf, but they won't get 160 hits twice in a row or something. See the problem is the max random energy damage.


Also their range should be cut down by half or slightly more, OR they should get reticle. But not both.


I agree with fire/poison upgrade.


No comment on the mana.


EDIT:KK can create a new damage type and make an ammo mod that only spies can use, or make a poison ammo mod(with no stacks, just direct hit like chaos minions) since shelter doesn't help much against it.

SEX

[icarium]

u missed "like all" option out of poll, or i would have voted that

[Judge]

lol icarum.... you can vote for multiple choices.... so you just vote for all the chages you like.