Nerf Nerf Nerf... Hush Up!! K.Thx :p [Archive]

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 15:58

Right, everytime people call for a nerf, something strange happens, they get a rather large dildo of maven stuck up their class's ass, turned on, full power (and have you seen the ROF on one of them things? Like omg that must hurt).

Lets look back at the looooooong history of Monk Nerfage..

Monks:

PSI Spells originally started out requiring PSI/PPU/APU/Erotic (ya, exotic, but still, erotic sounds nicerer).

The effect of this was simple, all monks could use all weaponry. Erotic was only for high level stuff, so, low level things (tl 3 heal, blessed deflector) required just PPU. Funnily enough, I dont remember seeing much bitching on the forums, heck, if any, but then, Monks back then could also cast shelter/blessed shelter/holy shelter, and stack them, now you lot complain about 1 shelter being up :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Result... MST, the PSI's version of TC.

People got around this of course, by speccing 50/50 Hybrids. Who was shot up the arse, my PE. My PE was pretty much the first PE to cap PSI, it was Hybrid of course, APU and PPU, so I was taking down hoverbots and warbots with some weird APU bolt spell that I cant remember, which was fun, as soon as this change came in, my poor PE had to go pure PPU, and they also brought in Team EXP, which meant that the dildo was shoved up my arse because I'd worked frikken hard on leveling my PSI (sure, some people exploited, they would get a group of friends to shoot each other whilst casting healgroup-sanctum).

Anyway, over time a few people learnt how to make top notch hybrids, nice APU and nice PPU, able to win op wars on their own, so, people bitched, constantly, so, KK, instead of balancing Hybrids to make them a viable class, trashed it. Result, the Hybrids went to PPU or APU. Result, everyone starts to bitch about PPU!

Well, to be honest, its your own fault, you wanted hybrids removed, and, hybrids lomming to use a cursed soul, ent going to happen. You wanted hybrids dead, but didnt think of what would happen in the big picture, if hybrids didnt exist. Now you know what will happen, they will all start to use holy para, and run around pepper park whilst you... bitch about them.

So, lets look at this in an illogical way.

Say 30% of people are now PPU Monks, 20% are APU 20% PE 20% tank 10% spy. Now, on this forum, about 25 people constantly bitch non stop about PPU's, say ingame, another 100 constantly bitch, thats..... 125 people, lets double that, to 300, which is roughly 25% of the game. Now, say KK, in its infinite wisdom totally screw over PPU. They piss off 30% of the game to please 25% of the game :lol: :lol:

Solution 1. Lower PPU Power.

Result - APU's have massive damage, huge poison stacks etc.. etc.. People will come onto the forum bitching about APU's being too powerful, able to solo PPU monks because PPU's are now not able to defend themselves as much, result... APU's get hit with the dildo

Solution 2. Remove Parashock.

Result - Classes with very high agil/ath, run around too fast, no one can target them in an op war/pepper park, nothing can slow them down. Result, the "soft cap" becomes a "hard cap" every classes runspeed is reduced to that people can actually aim. Result... everyone gets a dildo shoved up their butt to tickle their tonsels.

Ohh, you could probably think of lots of solutions, but, in the end, what about the long term effects. Your cries for nerfage of Hybrids, led to the current situation with everyone (well, the same people who bitched about hybrids) moaning and bitching about PPU's. After PPU's, APU's or Pistol PE's will be bitched at to be nerfed, until in the end, every char is so nerfed, they become unplayable, just like Hybrids.

Solution - have a nice cup of STFU :p

k.thx.bye ;)

enablerbr

22-10-03, 16:02

i say NERF TEH DROMES!!.
that way you'll get less sex.:D

i don't have a problem with monks. i just remember them as griefers in beta.

deac

22-10-03, 16:03

Originally posted by Lexxuk

Solution - have a nice cup of STFU :p

how about you take a cup of your own drink?

Scikar

22-10-03, 16:04

Ahh, another constructive post. You know what? Until now I stuck to posting in topics people had already started about PPUs. Now I'll be starting my own, just to piss you off. No I won't STFU, I will keep posting here until I feel the game is balanced. If that means your overpowered class gets nerfed then tough shit. I don't care if monks have been nerfed again and again since the very beginning, I don't care if you want your old hybrid back, I don't care if you think any of this is unfair.

I'll keep posting until I'm happy that the game is balanced, whether this comes from changes made by KK or someone like QD constructing a sensible counter argument which I agree with. Fact is, you are not KK, you are not the owner of this forum, you are not in charge of the game, and I am not going to stop posting here about balance just because you don't like it.

Original monk

22-10-03, 16:08

im a ppu, where did i put my 5 slot anti lexxuk sanctum ?

hehe yust kiddin, im tired of all them nerfage from every side, yust like most off the peeps around here...

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 16:09

Balance? The constant whinging and crying to nerf Hybrids, LED to the constant whinging and crying to nerf PPU's, try reading the post again, then read it again after that, then, read it again, then, have a drink :rolleyes:

@ deac - milk and 2 sugars please :p

/edit - @ sicar - I wasnt a hybrid O_o so why would I want one? I'm a PE and a PPU, I'm sticking with PE and PPU, unless of course they make either class unplayable like hybrids are, in which case, i'd just cancel that account.

.Cyl0n

22-10-03, 16:11

aahahhahahahahahhaha
i wub u lexxuk :) :)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

after all that time and all those nerfs .. when i see what we have now .. all i can do is laugh at this forum :lol:

.cy

Original monk

22-10-03, 16:15

Originally posted by Scikar
Ahh, another constructive post. You know what? Until now I stuck to posting in topics people had already started about PPUs. Now I'll be starting my own, just to piss you off. No I won't STFU, I will keep posting here until I feel the game is balanced. If that means your overpowered class gets nerfed then tough shit. I don't care if monks have been nerfed again and again since the very beginning, I don't care if you want your old hybrid back, I don't care if you think any of this is unfair.

I'll keep posting until I'm happy that the game is balanced, whether this comes from changes made by KK or someone like QD constructing a sensible counter argument which I agree with. Fact is, you are not KK, you are not the owner of this forum, you are not in charge of the game, and I am not going to stop posting here about balance just because you don't like it.

darn ya seem determined, and thats good, but youre anger is pointless because you call being balanced: MY CHARS OWN ALL THE REST OWNAGE 1111111111oneononeoone youre a ND mate dont start whining on youre quest for balance when like 90% of all the so called overpowered hybrids came out of ND :)

go get upset on youre own scikar this game will never know the kind of balance you mean :D

QUOTE: scikar at home: mommy i am mad cause all the bad bad ppu's in the game parashock me and i wonna nerf it and people dont like me yelling nerf nerf nerf, snif

superfresh

22-10-03, 16:16

I must've joined after they removed the erotic spells. Would definitely like those back.

.Cyl0n

22-10-03, 16:18

Originally posted by superfresh
I must've joined after they removed the erotic spells. Would definitely like those back.

erotic spells were db / db sanctum and reeze..
so they're still there only the skill is mst now :)

.cy

Stigmata

22-10-03, 16:19

so lexxuk do you believe that the ppu monk is ballanced ?

do you think it should take an apu with anti buff to kill any half decent ppu ?

do you believe they should be an elite class that if a skilled player is in control of are un-killable by a team of 5 people ?

A ppu is even able to kill any other fighting class with a holy parashock bolt and db.

this is not balanced in any way.

i fought for an hour last night, not in several battles but in one long very very dull battle against the same people who where constantly being rezzed and killed over and over again.

that is what makes this game so dull.

maybe we should call it PPU'ocron becuase with them in the current state it is pointless going anywhere without them becuase everyone else always has them

Andy

superfresh

22-10-03, 16:20

Originally posted by .Cyl0n
erotic spells were db / db sanctum and reeze..
so they're still there only the skill is mst now :)

.cy

Bummer. Was hoping for "Holy Aphrodesiac" or something.

ericdraven

22-10-03, 16:21

Well said, Lexxuk.. :)

People don't think what will happen AFTER a certain NERF, they just think up TO this nerf.. and afterwards, of COURSE something else will be imbalanced and they start crying again... and again... *yawn*

Scikar

22-10-03, 16:24

Originally posted by Lexxuk
Balance? The constant whinging and crying to nerf Hybrids, LED to the constant whinging and crying to nerf PPU's, try reading the post again, then read it again after that, then, read it again, then, have a drink :rolleyes:

@ deac - milk and 2 sugars please :p

/edit - @ sicar - I wasnt a hybrid O_o so why would I want one? I'm a PE and a PPU, I'm sticking with PE and PPU, unless of course they make either class unplayable like hybrids are, in which case, i'd just cancel that account.

I didn't say you were, I was referring to anyone who did play a hybrid and cries about nerf threads, e.g. original. And no, the reason PPUs are left unbalanced is because too many concessions were made to them. In persuading hybrids to go pure, PPUs were made like they are now. Now we find ourselves in a similar position - the world revolved around hybrids, now it simply revolves around PPUs. The situation isn't as bad but it's still far from ideal. There is no way you can say the game is balanced when on every server more than 50% of the people you see are monks.

It takes a monk to kill to a monk to fight a monk to buff a monk to heal a monk to rez a monk to antibuff a monk. And then the monks can still hack the OP after a fight, ID a bunch of tech parts, repair, drive, poke MC5 chips, and need only log a constructor alt to build any rares they might need. Maybe not all at once but monks have the capability to do any of that. Why do PEs and tanks even exist?

Note that I do not feel apus are overpowered, the only problem I have with apus is their range. The thing I don't like is that they are needed to kill a ppu, and a ppu is needed to win an OP fight. Since ppus can hack without gimping themselves to any major degree, and apus can kill any other class, all you need is the occasional constructor spy and you can do anything.

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 16:25

Tell you what, lets look at true balance in the game, and how it should be. Lets put balance into numbers... (then I might go mow the lawn)

APU

Attack = 100
Defence = 0

PPU

Attack = 0
Defence = 100

PE

Attack = 50
Defence = 50

Tank

Attack = 75
Defence = 75

Spy

Attack = 75
Defence = 25

There you go, thats balance. Lets put that into damage figures.

1 attack points = 5 dmg points
1 defence points = 5 dfc points

APU

Attack = 500
Defence = 0

PPU

Attack = 0
Defence = 500

PE

Attack = 250
Defence = 250

Tank

Attack = 375
Defence = 375

Spy

Attack = 375
Defence = 125

Now, an APU can do 500dmg per shot, a PPU can defend 500dmg per shot, that is balance. You want a PPU to defend 200 dmg per shot, which would require them, to balance it, to do 300 attack damage, omg, balance :lol: :lol: :lol:

/edit - forgot copynpaste rawr - also, i want balance, not nerfage, people are way to narrow minded. and rate me 6 stars :p

Stigmata

22-10-03, 16:25

Well said, Lexxuk..

People don't think what will happen AFTER a certain NERF, they just think up TO this nerf.. and afterwards, of COURSE something else will be imbalanced and they start crying again... and again... *yawn*

would you not prefer to go into a fight/op war with everyone playing PE's/Tanks or SPIES in oppose to the current 95% monk 2%pe 2% spy 1% tank that currently happens ?

or do you not participate in fighting ? maybe you just collect tech parts all day every day, must be fun

Andy

Brammers

22-10-03, 16:30

I think the problem is not with unbalance PPU's, but the fact there are now LOTS of PPU monks.

So how does one address the problem of too many PPU's - Answer I dont think you can.

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 16:32

oh oh oh, i had a brainwave, which hurt, ouch.

how about, anti-nerf! Right, the idea is, instead of making PPU's less powerful, how bout, we make every other class MORE powerful, double the damage on APU/RC/PC/Melee/HC, and double the effect of resists!

Scikar

22-10-03, 16:35

Originally posted by Brammers
I think the problem is not with unbalance PPU's, but the fact there are now LOTS of PPU monks.

So how does one address the problem of too many PPU's - Answer I dont think you can.

If the PPU monks themselves would contribute to the discussion positively we might reach a workable solution. Instead they haven't learnt from what happened to the hybrid. Hybrids never accepted they were overpowered, they preferred to deny it, and make ridiculous claims like "a tank can kill a hybrid if they know what they're doing," then in the next thread "I can kill anyone 1v1 and I can take on the 5 best tanks on Saturn by myself, and I would be embarassed if I was ever killed 1v1." So KK comes along, and the only constructive posts are ones about nerfing hybrids, so hybrids get an uber nerf. They can bitch all they like but I never saw a hybrid suggest anything better!

PPUs will meet the same fate, you can live in ignorance if you wish but you'll just get hit harder.

Original monk

22-10-03, 16:38

Originally posted by stigmata
would you not prefer to go into a fight/op war with everyone playing PE's/Tanks or SPIES in oppose to the current 95% monk 2%pe 2% spy 1% tank that currently happens ?

Look out with what you are saying scikar :) last night ive seen a huge increase of spy's on the saturn server, i think the spyPA's are doing there work hehe

Why do i say look out ?
Because soon its possible this game is spy-o-cron :P

i fought 2 spy's some pe's and a tank yesterday, and then after a while there was 1 apu monk commin in (PP1) so that sounds more normal then the last time i was there when there where about 15 monks, i have a video of that, only things ya could see was parashocks and holy lightnings :)

Scikar

22-10-03, 16:39

Originally posted by Lexxuk
oh oh oh, i had a brainwave, which hurt, ouch.

how about, anti-nerf! Right, the idea is, instead of making PPU's less powerful, how bout, we make every other class MORE powerful, double the damage on APU/RC/PC/Melee/HC, and double the effect of resists!

I don't get it. Double the effect of resists and everyone will take less damage from anything, including PPUs. The only thing that would change if you did this would be mobs would become extremely easy to kill. You can hardly argue that a PPU's defence comes just from shields - make a PPU with 0 resists of any kind and I bet you can't outheal anything. Why go to the trouble of changing every other class when you can achieve the same effect by fixing one class? That's like you're writing an essay and you use the wrong word in a certain paragraph, but rather than delete it and write something else, you rewrite the whole paragraph to suit the wrong word you used.

Scikar

22-10-03, 16:41

Originally posted by Original monk
Look out with what you are saying scikar :) last night ive seen a huge increase of spy's on the saturn server, i think the spyPA's are doing there work hehe

Why do i say look out ?
Because soon its possible this game is spy-o-cron :P

i fought 2 spy's some pe's and a tank yesterday, and then after a while there was 1 apu monk commin in (PP1) so that sounds more normal then the last time i was there when there where about 15 monks, i have a video of that, only things ya could see was parashocks and holy lightnings :)

The difference is you don't need a spy to kill a spy. So spyocron would never exist. Though I think it would be a refreshing change if there were a lot more spies.

ericdraven

22-10-03, 16:44

Originally posted by stigmata
or do you not participate in fighting ? maybe you just collect tech parts all day every day, must be fun

Maybe you run from OP to OP every day, fighting and killing the same people every day, must be fun.. :D

Heh, how i like all those losers who look at my rareparts-list and the only thing they can do is to make stupid comments about it.
And afterwards they message me "oooh, can i have that part from you, i reeeeally really need it to complete my CS, but i can't offer you anything good, 'cause i am such a 1337 PKer and OP fighter, i have no time to hunt for rares"... :lol: :lol:

However, back to the topic.
Why i am against NERFS is simple - it pisses off the people who gets nerfed - of course. This might lead to even more cancellation of accounts and this to the death of this game.
What i would like to see INSTEAD of nerfs are BOOSTS. Yes, yes, now you may cry "why boost 3 classes when you just can do the same with nerfing one class?!?!?!11". Well - everyone likes BOOSTS, or not? So - boosting 3 classes will make those three classes happy (or at least happier). And i think it's better to have three happy classes than one pissed off class. Or am i wrong?
I am aware that this is not always possible (boosting instead of nerfing), but it should be done as often as possible.

Brammers

22-10-03, 16:53

Originally posted by Scikar
If the PPU monks themselves would contribute to the discussion positively we might reach a workable solution. Instead they haven't learnt from what happened to the hybrid. Hybrids never accepted they were overpowered, they preferred to deny it, and make ridiculous claims like "a tank can kill a hybrid if they know what they're doing," then in the next thread "I can kill anyone 1v1 and I can take on the 5 best tanks on Saturn by myself, and I would be embarassed if I was ever killed 1v1." So KK comes along, and the only constructive posts are ones about nerfing hybrids, so hybrids get an uber nerf. They can bitch all they like but I never saw a hybrid suggest anything better!

I agree 100% that hybrids was overpowered, before the last major nerf. I once saw at fight night a hybrid, take on 2 tanks and a spy, and won.

PPUs will meet the same fate, you can live in ignorance if you wish but you'll just get hit harder.

I think you missed my point - I said I there are lots of PPU's. I'm often hearing stories of a team raiding Techhaven, conisting of 3 PPU's and a tank.

So lets say in patch XXX the PPU's get nerfed? What will happen? The PPU's will LOM to APU, and next we will hear cries of nerf the APU monks.

Original monk

22-10-03, 16:57

Eric yeah youre a 100% right about the boosting: but you know KK, if they boost they boost good and that could create new unbalances :P but hey, youre still right, boost every class except em monks... But the more KK boosts, the more new boosts they want, and they cant keep boosting + the more they boost now the less they can boost later so they wonna do it little step by little step so people dont get confused and mainly: this takes more time so it earns more money :)

About youre parts: arent you braggin a littlebit now ? hehe, well ya have the right to cause i know it takes enormous amounts of energy and time and lots of frustration to get a decent list to trade with :)

Good luck trading and maybe with a littlebit luck i cu on the uranus server where i started out some noobs 2 months ago :)

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 17:02

Originally posted by Brammers
So lets say in patch XXX the PPU's get nerfed? What will happen? The PPU's will LOM to APU, and next we will hear cries of nerf the APU monks.

This really is a perception of power. When the lib's were more overpowered than they are now, everyone used a lib, because of the perception of power. True, they had no skill, anyone could win with a lib, but they had the perception of power.

With hybrids also came that perception, people would class all hybrids as overpowered, and most good hybrids also classed themselves as overpowered (waves @ Cylon & Hinch), and because people saw that this class was overpowered, they went to this class.

And so people put in non constructive "omg, hybrids are so overpowered, nerf them" when in reality, all it needed was a minor tweak. Now the perception of power is with PPU's, which is really very laughable, PPU's have no power, just massive defence, which is what they should have. Its like a scale, they should be able to absorb 100% of an APU's damage, so, if a capped APU can do 1000 damage to an unbuffed PPU, whilst buffed, the APU should do 0 damage, else the APU is overpowered.

As I pointed out though, people want to kill PPU's, to make them inefectual. What will happen then, is simple, peoples perception of power will change to "current most powerful class" which will be either APU or BS Pistol PE's. There will then be calls to nerf this class, they will go onto the next class, there will be calls to nerf this class, until in the end, hybrids become effective again because of the nerfs, then, its cries to nerf hybrids, followed by PPU's followed.. its a chain of events that may take years to come into effect, but it all starts with one "nerf" thread.

Torteth

22-10-03, 17:02

Because the main idea behind a MMORPG is to level and advance, there is lots of intrinsic competition. People naturally want to be better than everyone else. This is evident in the fact that we have PE's spending HOURS, DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS and YEARS tweaking their setup.
People will ALWAYS follow the best class. If there was only one class, one skill, one gun (which did one damage) people would still find a way to be better than other people.
"If you press crouch just as you shoot and then jump as the recoil animation plays, you do 2 damage..." etc
Its just not possible for KK to win, perhaps they've seen this and just cant be fucked fixing the PPU _PROBLEM_....

ericdraven

22-10-03, 17:09

Originally posted by Original monk
About youre parts: arent you braggin a littlebit now ? hehe, well ya have the right to cause i know it takes enormous amounts of energy and time and lots of frustration to get a decent list to trade with :)

No i don't, i don't give a shit about the parts, but it's the comments of those smartasses which are pissing me off, that's all. ;)
So vice versa i have to call them "1337 PKers", because i am sure they don't like this as well.. :p

evs

22-10-03, 17:11

Being a new middle rank PPU (playing PPU pretty much from the start) - not apu lom crap i find that yeah, i am overpowered.

Take anyone my rank, even some a bit above, and i can sit there happily staying alive and also ripping them to shreds with a holy parashock bolt.

Couple of damage boosts and that's it - good night vienna.

So yes, i admit - after playing every class to cap bar this one, yes - they need nerfing.

Perhaps if HP is kept in and the same, then the PPU's shields need severely reducing.

A capped ppu can get their shield back up as soon as a debuff - and with a holy heal and sanctum running, the damage done in the 2 seconds that the shelter's down for is nonexistent.

HP does ruin op war play though, especially for running players.
Lowering the time it glues you for - perhaps a split second 'stops you in your tracks' would be better, as it means the target has got to be constantly peppered to keep them slow, instead of the fire and forget HP that happens regularly in op wars....

superfresh

22-10-03, 17:14

Originally posted by Brammers
I think the problem is not with unbalance PPU's, but the fact there are now LOTS of PPU monks.

So how does one address the problem of too many PPU's - Answer I dont think you can.

Being a PPU assumes that you will be with another character. Since a PPU is made to support other characters, they rarely travel and/or fight alone. Tanks, PE's and Spies can cruise around by themselves and solo mobs, etc.. If an enemy APU is in the area, chances are they're with a PPU.

In the case of OP wars, I'm betting that the teams with the surplus of PPU's are from clans that simply have players with the tolerance to play them often. You don't play a PPU in and of itself, and personally it's not the most satisfying character to play. Seems to me you do it because someone has to, and nowadays its clear to everyone that in team situations having a PPU(s) is a decisive advantage. The APU/PPU combo is clearly the deadliest (have yet to see a PPU/spy duo). No one wants to be on the losing team, hence a surplus of APU's and PPU's in NC.

Personally I think PPUing is a drag. I try to keep mine stowed away unless a friend wants to hit MC5. But yeah, theyre everywhere now. I would opt for ditching them if I didn't want MC5 parts so badly.

Scikar

22-10-03, 17:50

Originally posted by Lexxuk
This really is a perception of power. When the lib's were more overpowered than they are now, everyone used a lib, because of the perception of power. True, they had no skill, anyone could win with a lib, but they had the perception of power.

With hybrids also came that perception, people would class all hybrids as overpowered, and most good hybrids also classed themselves as overpowered (waves @ Cylon & Hinch), and because people saw that this class was overpowered, they went to this class.

And so people put in non constructive "omg, hybrids are so overpowered, nerf them" when in reality, all it needed was a minor tweak. Now the perception of power is with PPU's, which is really very laughable, PPU's have no power, just massive defence, which is what they should have. Its like a scale, they should be able to absorb 100% of an APU's damage, so, if a capped APU can do 1000 damage to an unbuffed PPU, whilst buffed, the APU should do 0 damage, else the APU is overpowered.

As I pointed out though, people want to kill PPU's, to make them inefectual. What will happen then, is simple, peoples perception of power will change to "current most powerful class" which will be either APU or BS Pistol PE's. There will then be calls to nerf this class, they will go onto the next class, there will be calls to nerf this class, until in the end, hybrids become effective again because of the nerfs, then, its cries to nerf hybrids, followed by PPU's followed.. its a chain of events that may take years to come into effect, but it all starts with one "nerf" thread.

The only part I disagree with here (and I guess is the source of the problem) is that I don't think PPUs should be invulnerable. Take Star Wars: Return of the Jedi as an example. The shield protecting the Death Star makes it practically invulnerable. So you have to take down the source of the shield. In this case the source is the PPU. However the PPU has an even stronger shield. Would the film have been any good if the base projecting the shield was invulnerable, and the Rebels got completely wasted? No. The same thing happens here.

I'm repeating myself again, because I keep posting this, but few people seem to listen. PPU defence needs to be reduced. However, it needs to be reduced acceptably. You can't just take away their shields and leave it at that, else OP wars will just consist of concentrating on the PPUs until they go down, then mop up the rest. So, the key is to play on the support role of the PPU class. Being pure support, the PPU should get the most benefit from being in a team, as well as provide the most support. Therefore, the only workable solution I have seen so far is to make PPU defence dependant on his team. Let PPUs redirect the damage they take to tanks. Not only does this make it a true give and take team as it should be, but it gives a role for tanks to play in OP wars, something they are currently sorely lacking. Now, as long as the PPU has his bodyguard tanks, he'll live. Without them, he will die. But in OP wars he won't be the first to drop. I haven't seen anyone yet provide a counter at all to this solution, so let's hear it.

Shadow Dancer

22-10-03, 17:59

Lexxuk you have the most horrible arguements ever.

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 18:20

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Lexxuk you have the most horrible arguements ever.

nah, i've seen what happens, nerf after nerf, people just jump ship to the most powerful class, which then gets nerfed. Lib's/hybrids/ppu's/bs pe's etc. me, i was rifle pe when libs were (more) overpowered, i was ppu when hybrids were overpowered, and i'll stay that way.

Progenitor

22-10-03, 18:48

@Lexxuk :
In the history of Monks - you forgot the Poison Nerf because everyone who had no poison resists cried, after they were Toixic Beamed to hell. :)

IMO, I don't know that I believe that the classes should be balanced. In a perfect world each class would have at least one other class that was superior to it - ala Rock, Papper, Siccosrs.

In that reguard, at least one of the classes - (IMO, either Spy or Tank) should be given something to counter Para. I've seen mentioned in other threads the idea of Melee Tanks - either through armor or imps, get a certain amount of immunity from Para - allowing them to trumb para-ppus.

What I'd love to see, is RESIST PSI, actually do something. Like make you immune from the affects of PSI affects (this would include para*, heals, buffs, s/d, etc., etc. Not so sure about the attack spells, as there are already resists to counter them.) I like two edged swords - great rewards, but at a cost. APUs are like that now - we have the great reward of damage at the cost of self heals. Say it took 100 resist PSI to be compleyly immune to Holy Para or to even only receive .5 seconds of paralyaztion.

Then it is a counscious effort on the part of the reciever if they wish to have more immunity from PPUs or more PPU ability.

Tanks could skip their already weak heal and melee 1 in favor of being somwhat immune to para. PE's could sacrifce a bit of their PPU to come to some balance. Spy's would have a harder time deciding.

It would put a solution to the problem.

-p

Zokk

22-10-03, 19:00

No offense Lexxuk, but everytime I read one of your "Don't touch the PPU class" threads, they seem to follow a certain pattern:

One. [Incident(s) that while actually unrelated to the argument, are skewed so that they can support the argument]

Example: "Monks back then could also cast shelter/blessed shelter/holy shelter, and stack them, now you lot complain about 1 shelter being up"

Two. [Incorrect place of blame that somehow hopes to support the argument]

Example: [Paraphrased] "You told KK that hybrids were too powerfull, and now that they made PPUs too powerfull, you have only yourselves to blame, and it shouldn't be changed to teach you a lesson"

Three. [Statistics (and everyone knows that 72.69% of all statistics are completely made-up)]

Example: [Paraphrased] "By nerfing PPUs, you nerf 30% of the people who play the game... those people had the intelligence to see how powerful that class was compared to the rest, they deserve to play!"

Four. ["Solutions" - choose actual solutions to the problem, but give highly unlikely end-results]

Example 1: You're actually almost correct here -- except for the "APUs now too powerful" part. If you directly nerf the PPU class, they will be too weak to keep anyone alive but themselves in combat. They will then (1) Not be able to perform their function in combat (2) Not be able to take on an enemy clan by themselves and curse them out. Result: Lack of PPUs. Result: Lack of important functions that only a PPU has (ex: Ressurection). Don't nerf the PPUs, remove them and APUs, and created balanced hybrids.

Example 2: "Classes with very high agil/ath, run around too fast, no one can target them in an op war/pepper park, nothing can slow them down." Just because you can't hit anything without your blueglue crutch doesn't mean other people have aim as poorly as you!

Five. [Attempted prevention of future arguments that will rip this poorly constructed and supported argument to shreds]

"Solution - have a nice cup of STFU :p"

When KK does get around to balancing your class, I can only hope they have mercy on your soul, because you are not giving them feedback on what to change. They will steamroller all over your class like they did hybrids, just because you aren't willing to admit you have TOO MUCH POWER.

Shadow Dancer

22-10-03, 19:08

Holy crap

Zokk 5

Ppus 0

ghandisfury

22-10-03, 19:24

Lexxuk, your argument is flawed in so many ways that I will refrain from quoting most of it.

Parashock is not only a PvP killing spell, but it costs nothing to kill PvP. Meaning that at a click of a button and 33 mana lost you can now easily kill the best player in the game. Damage boost is also extreamly unbalanced. At the click of a button you can reduce a well setup tank's defences to that of a poorly set up spy. Resserection is possibly the biggest unbalance of all for the simple fact that there is no counter for it. I don't want to nerf the PPU, because I believe that a PPU is_truely_balanced.....total lack of offences combined with unbelivable defences. You see, scikar wants a total anihalation of PPUs, I only want the three unbalanced spells to be reworked or removed. Scikar seems to believe that a PPU should be easily killable by one or two people, furthermore they should give up ALOT to be able to resserect, or heal, or buff...TOTAL_ANIHALATION!! He forgets that people can kill 1 or 2 or more lesser skilled people with PEs, Spies, or APUs.....and NOBODY can do this with a PPU yet he wants them to be killable by the same lesser skilled team? What's the point of being a PPU?

The imbalance issues are noticable with all classes, but the base of the problem is with the PPU. Let's break down the imbalance issues, and let me give you my thoughts on how to fix them.

TANKS>>> The big problem with tanks is their defences. A well setup PE with shelter can have better defences than a tank if looked at 1vs1. Sure if you bring a PPU into the picture it's balanced, but let's leave a PPU out of the picture for now. IMO the way to fix the imbalnce with defences for tanks is lower the "damage cap number", remove damage cap, and make it a linear equation over 60 points in any con level. Meaning that a tank with 114 points in energy resists could have the same defence with 85 points in energy resist. However any increase in this stat from the 85 point range would still be effective. Meaning that if he put all points from con into energy resist he might take 5 points of damage from holy lightning but take 100 points of damage from a fire apoc. This would increase a tanks defences without significantly increasing any other classes defences.

SPIES>>> The problem with spies is the fact that they have no place or function in a battle. This is brought about mainly by the PPU, but let's leave him out of this for now. IMO a spie should get thermal vision that would aid in tracking down their spie adversaries. The SH should also be doubled in ROF. These are the only imbalance issues for spies. Their range is superior, and the have perfect defences (stealth).

PEs>>> No imbalance issues that I see, asside from the fact that they too have no place in OP wars. I would like to see them get a tool that would remove dead people from battle, thus giving them a function.

APUs>>> The biggest problem with APUs is their range. With the range so high their lack of defences is never brought into question. Max range on any weapon should be 200 meters. The other problem is the fact that the have access to good peircing defence. Solution is to remove heavy deflector belt. Damage and frequency is fine IMO.

PPUs>>> The problem is not the fact that they are hard to kill.....they_should_be_hard to kill. The problem is the fact that they can reduce your setup, remove your run speed, and that there is no counter for resserection. So, remove parashock, make damage boost have to stack as it does on mobs, and give PEs a weapon that removes dead bodies, and you've got their problem dicked as well.

So many people whine about the PPU (as they should), but do it for the wrong reasons. It's not the fact that they are hard to kill, or that they can ress under fire.....it's_those_three_spells that are the defining unbalance issues.

Anyway, take it for what you will...these are all opinions, and I've left PvP until these issues are fixed.

Scikar

22-10-03, 19:28

If you would care to read my posts again, you'll see I don't think total annihilation of ppus is the way to go, hence the reason I would like them to be able to survive at an OP war, rather than just blow their defences away and leave them to die.

Shadow Dancer

22-10-03, 19:31

omg why do people keep saying Scikar wants the removal of ppus? He's never said that. I'M the one who wants ppus removed. :D

]v[ortice

22-10-03, 19:39

Same shit different day.

PPUs aren't over powered... and Lexxy is always right :)

Seriously... if PPUs were handing out hidings everyday to everyone they met i might agree with you, but we're the soft bastards helping you level day in and day out.

I know some of you can solo high level Mobs but at least at one point in this game you have been thankful a ppu was there to save your arse.

If you put half of your efforts into complaing about the inherrant bugs in this damn game (some seems to span the ages) Neocron would be a far better game.

And for Crahn out Loud, stop talking about the class as a whole instead of the Strength of the class when it's capped. It is really getting on my nerves.

I hear the word 'Monk-O-Cron' every day on this board and in game... to me its more like 'Nerf-O-Cron' due to the incessant whinging from the small minded faction trying to spoil this game because it doesn't play the way they want it.

I would piss myself laughing watching you guys whinge about SWG.

"NERF TEH JEDI... THEY ARE TOO POWERFUL"

The reply you would get?

"But that's the game yer Mook!"

NERF BAT WAVING FAIRIES!!!!!!!!11111111111111ONEONEONE

*ph33r*

22-10-03, 19:42

REMOVE MONKS PLEASE

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 19:43

This isnt a "dont touch the PPU class" thread, its just everyone seems to now associate "nerf" and "PPU" because thats what everyone is crying for. Its a "lay off the nerf everything and have a warm cup of STFU" cause and effect type of thing. Nerfing (a) results in overpowering (b) which makes people from (a) become (b) requiring nerfs to (b) which overpowers (c) which..

Personally, I think all them who instantly jumped on the "lets nerf PPU" bandwagon, should go find a nerf PPU thread, this thread is about not nerfing any class, because of the cause and effect of nerfing.

@ Zokk - its 99.8% of statistics that are made up on the spot :p But.. here we go..

=

One. [Incident(s) that while actually unrelated to the argument, are skewed so that they can support the argument]

Example: "Monks back then could also cast shelter/blessed shelter/holy shelter, and stack them, now you lot complain about 1 shelter being up"

=

This is related in the fact that, people have nerfed monks (though this isnt a monk thread) so badly, they are nothing like as powerful as they once were, but people are still not happy, it went from "pure hybrid" to "hybrid" to "nerf pures" to whatever next? If KK were to remove MST and put the spells back to the way they were back then, THEN people could cry for a nerf, because even the crappest APU/PPU would be able to use every spell, whilst stacking 3 levels of shelter and 3 levels of deflector, parashocking and holy lightening you to death, in an instant.

=

Two. [Incorrect place of blame that somehow hopes to support the argument]

Example: [Paraphrased] "You told KK that hybrids were too powerfull, and now that they made PPUs too powerfull, you have only yourselves to blame, and it shouldn't be changed to teach you a lesson"

=

The whiner's are to blame, their constant bitching made KK totally kill an entire class, without thinking about what would happen to all the monk's who were biased towards PPU. They all went PPU, they all now use Holy Parashock, you all now bitch about Holy Parashock which is something that could have been avoided with tweaks to the hybrid instead of the killing of the class.

=

Three. [Statistics (and everyone knows that 72.69% of all statistics are completely made-up)]

Example: [Paraphrased] "By nerfing PPUs, you nerf 30% of the people who play the game... those people had the intelligence to see how powerful that class was compared to the rest, they deserve to play!"

=

No, that was economics 101 - why would KK want to piss of a majority to placate a minority? Unless there was a severe imbalance (ala Liberator) in which case something should be done, or should it be done because of the 15-20 people who repeatedly bitch about their class not being overpowered, on the forums?

=

Four. ["Solutions" - choose actual solutions to the problem, but give highly unlikely end-results]

=

I dont do solutions, takes too much thinking, sure, removing PPU's would overpower classes, and destroy some high level content (MC5). PPU has already been nerfed to the tune of 50% non cast, which means you can kill whoever the PPU ressurects, whilst the PPU can survive, nothing wrong with that, if the PPU wants to keep rezzin someone who is going to die instantly, thats upto them.

=

Five. [Attempted prevention of future arguments that will rip this poorly constructed and supported argument to shreds]

"Solution - have a nice cup of STFU "

=

Sex :p Nerf nerf nerf :p Sex!! Why is Neil the sex emote? weird. Anyway, all I pointed out what this communities fixation with nerfage, and how every time they get their way, THEIR OWN CLASS gets a dildo of maven stuck up their arse. I think i proved my point, but still, soon as you mention "dont nerf" people go on and on about PPU's, well, all I say is, how about a nice warm cup of STFU. k.thx.bye ;)

.Cyl0n

22-10-03, 19:48

lexx for prez !!!

:)

.cy

Shadow Dancer

22-10-03, 19:49

Originally posted by Lexxuk

I dont do solutions, takes too much thinking,

Why am I not surprised. Doesn't seem like you ever put too much thought into finding a solution. Since you don't, then you cannot be mad/surprised/sad when ppus are nerfed into utter destruction. Because, much like hybrids, you're not doing anything to contribute. You're not trying to find a solution. Yuo barely even PvP at all, no wonder you're so blind. You're saying teh same old tired phrases that all the hybrids were saying. "Um no we're not overpowered, NERF NERFERS LOLOLO I"M FUNEE" :rolleyes:

Am I the only damn person in the forum who admits his class is overpowered? I even gave solutions for it.

Tone down energy damage, at least max random damage for energy spells. Cut range by half or a little more. Or put reticle(but then you can't cut down range).

OMG LOOK I CAN DO IT, CAN YOU?

Jaggeh

22-10-03, 19:49

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 19:51

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
You're not trying to find a solution. Yuo barely even PvP at all, no wonder you're so blind.

Hate to tell you this, I'm always taking my PE into PP1 to try to find people to kill, and no, I dont take a PPU with me. I have fun there shootin up Rade (not to death) and just having FUN FUN FUN. Its not upto me to find a solution, its upto the dev's, but NERF NERF NERF is not a solution, is the creation of a new problem for people to bitch about ;)

Seezur001

22-10-03, 19:55

hmmm...... why dont they just make psi resists usefull???

Make it so psi resists ACTUALLY resists against DB, and Para????

maybee then the people bitching about this will shut up.

In almost every MMORPG there is a support char that can heal, cast buffs and rez. and in alot of MMORPGs there are also spells similar to the para spells (DAoC's root spells). NC need PPUs and so does every player of NC it just when they have to fight one they cry because they didnt have one with them. I agree that the PvP is too dependant on them, that why i sugest the psi resists idea, maybee it would make them less efective in PvP, then if you still get killed you can only blame yourself and your bad setup.

P.S. maybee the should take away the self cast of shelters and def and make a new spell for self casting that would be a little weaker than the current target cast ones.

Shadow Dancer

22-10-03, 19:59

Originally posted by Seezur001

In almost every MMORPG there is a support char that can heal, cast buffs and rez.

And how many of them have godlike defense and near invincibility?

Scikar

22-10-03, 20:01

Originally posted by Lexxuk
Hate to tell you this, I'm always taking my PE into PP1 to try to find people to kill, and no, I dont take a PPU with me. I have fun there shootin up Rade (not to death) and just having FUN FUN FUN. Its not upto me to find a solution, its upto the dev's, but NERF NERF NERF is not a solution, is the creation of a new problem for people to bitch about ;)

Pepper park is not PvP. You cannot look at PvP balance by looking at Pepper park fights, where everyone zones to plaza, PPUs never die, and spies are practically useless.

ghandisfury

22-10-03, 20:04

Originally posted by Scikar
The only part I disagree with here (and I guess is the source of the problem) is that I don't think PPUs should be invulnerable. Take Star Wars: Return of the Jedi as an example. The shield protecting the Death Star makes it practically invulnerable. So you have to take down the source of the shield. In this case the source is the PPU. However the PPU has an even stronger shield. Would the film have been any good if the base projecting the shield was invulnerable, and the Rebels got completely wasted? No. The same thing happens here.

You are defeated by your own argument. You will take note that it took a wrather large team of people/droids/ewoks:D to take the defences down. So your argument is still taking into effect that there needs to be planning, a diverse team, and well laid out tactics to take down a PPU. Which....is exactly the way it is now.

Originally posted by Scikar
Let PPUs redirect the damage they take to tanks. Not only does this make it a true give and take team as it should be, but it gives a role for tanks to play in OP wars, something they are currently sorely lacking. Now, as long as the PPU has his bodyguard tanks, he'll live. Without them, he will die. But in OP wars he won't be the first to drop. I haven't seen anyone yet provide a counter at all to this solution, so let's hear it.

For one, you can't make any class "class dependent" without extream unbalance (which is exactly what we have now).

For another you neglect to think outside of OP wars...what about MC5, caves, every_day hunting/battles? With this suggestion a PPU would be extreamly ineffective in small battles......bringing about a need for more PPUs. I have studied the umbalance of all classes, and I believe that the if all of my suggestions were put ingame, there would be no more umbalance. And as far as your suggestion goes, not only is it the death of PPUs, but it's unfair and completely bias towards everybody BUT PPUs.

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 20:14

Originally posted by Scikar
Pepper park is not PvP. You cannot look at PvP balance by looking at Pepper park fights, where everyone zones to plaza, PPUs never die, and spies are practically useless.

U dont play on Pluto much? You should go see eggz sometime, he's a spy, he'll run around PP shooting at APU's and PPU's/tanks/spies, or even Kurai, another spy, or Rade or.. well, anyone really. PvP is player vs player, that happens in pepper park, nothing wrong with trying to kill anyone.

Seezur001

22-10-03, 20:18

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And how many of them have godlike defense and near invincibility?

if you read my entire post i give sugestions to make them not so "godlike". and i dont get where ppl get this godlike crap, unless a PPU is capped or near capped this is just un-true, my mid level PPU got owned by a tank using a junk knife!!! now my ppu dosent have a uber setup and the guy cought me from the back, but i had buffs. (dosent say much for me, but still proves my point)

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 20:23

I still dont think there is anything wrong with a PPU's defence, sure, they shouldnt be able to withstand massive attacks, but general 3 or 5 on 1 = PPU walks away.

They shouldnt be able to bestow godlike powers on other runners (hence the 50% reduction in non self cast spells, but that was put in at the time shelter was fixed), but then people complain about PPU's rezzing someone... why are you not then killing the person being rezzed?

ghandisfury

22-10-03, 20:26

Originally posted by Seezur001
if you read my entire post i give sugestions to make them not so "godlike". and i dont get where ppl get this godlike crap, unless a PPU is capped or near capped this is just un-true, my mid level PPU got owned by a tank using a junk knife!!! now my ppu dosent have a uber setup and the guy cought me from the back, but i had buffs. (dosent say much for me, but still proves my point)

A capped, well setup PPU is "godlike", but this isn't a problem. It's the fact that there is no counter for resserection, parashock is running rampid, and damage boost can reduce your "well thought out" resist setup to a noobs resists. PPUs should be extreamly hard to kill.....unbeleivabley hard to kill.....f***ing outragously hard to kill.....extreamly, unbeleivably, f***ing outragously hard to kill.....but there should be a counter to their spells so they don't unbalance PvP, OP wars, and generall battles the way they do now.

Progenitor

22-10-03, 20:30

Originally posted by ghandisfury
A capped, well setup PPU is "godlike", but this isn't a problem. It's the fact that there is no counter for resserection, parashock is running rampid, and damage boost can reduce your "well thought out" resist setup to a noobs resists. PPUs should be extreamly hard to kill.....unbeleivabley hard to kill.....f***ing outragously hard to kill.....extreamly, unbeleivably, f***ing outragously hard to kill.....but there should be a counter to their spells so they don't unbalance PvP, OP wars, and generall battles the way they do now.

That's why I still say that Resist PSI should be made to counter PPU spells - botht he good and the bad ones.

Have it one way or the other.

(Still wouldn't solve the resurection solution, but I think a certain amount of drug intoxication after resurection should occur - you were just brought back from the clutche of fire and brimstone afterall - you would be a bit disoriented.)

-p

Opar

22-10-03, 20:31

Well. 99% of peeps posting here, are still playing game. What does this mean? Your still willing to play the game, no matter how strong PPUs are, which would mean theres no need to bitch if your still happy with playing? If your not happy, then why dont ya just quit?

Op

Duder

22-10-03, 20:48

Yeah nothings wrong with PPUs, they are balanced. Its just the other classes who cant understand how deep and complicated it is to be a PPU.

Is it just me that the ignorance of the PPUs will be their own smartypants death? Just like the hybrids.....people never seem to learn sometimes. :rolleyes:

Just because youre tired of people expressing their opinions about the imbalance in classes and PvP doesnt mean you need to start a Stalin and shut people up, ruining everything in the long run.

How the hell do you think the world you live today was created? How do you think your legal rights and unions were made? Whining, protesting, and being annoying? Or by some fat man in a moustach telling you to STFU and get to work for 0.30$ an hour and then getting fired and not paying your wage you earned, so hard because you looked tired?

This thread is just a shitty "STFU" thread. Same threads were made by hybrids back then, and guess what, just saying STFU isnt gonna make people that dislike hybrids agree to being underpowered in everyway.

This thread is not gonna make everyone who dislikes the way PPUs can give equal amounts of invunerability to anyone the PPU chooses, the way the PPU is so important that no one wants to go anywhere unless its to Plaza 1, the way the PPU can strip your movement speed and making you easier to kill then a Warbot. Understand? Warbot? See? Not Human, AI. Its like killing an AI, sex the Warbot LOLZ!

Lets think about finding a solution, a middle ground to this PPU crap then to make shitty threads like this that gives the anti-PPU crowd an urge to make more threads about how imbalancing this fun and exciting the combat in NC is. WHICH IT ISNT.

HEY, GOOD THING FOMK DOESNT HAVE PPUS, THANK GOD. IF GOD EXISTED.

Opar - hahahahhaah, look at the numbers of how many that played in "late" early Neocron Retail, and compare to now.

99% of what? 125 people?

Lexxuk

22-10-03, 20:54

Duder, warbots are as easy to kill as Doy Bots and Hoverbots, which I quite happily kill without a PPU using my PE. So whats your point? O_o

As for my rights, that would be borderline political, what with Blair about to sign up several hundred years of rights since the Magna Carta over to Europe, so yeah, my rights, and everyone in the UK's rights, count for bugger all.

And there is nothing wrong with PPU's, i've posted many suggestions on parashock in the past, from making resist PSI work, to antishock drugs that last 10 seconds etc. but nooo, people will not be happy until PPU's are nerfed to death, then the next class, then the next class, then the next class. I personally cant wait till they totally nerf PPU's, I want to see what the whiners find to whinge about then:rolleyes:

Scikar

22-10-03, 21:23

Originally posted by Opar
Well. 99% of peeps posting here, are still playing game. What does this mean? Your still willing to play the game, no matter how strong PPUs are, which would mean theres no need to bitch if your still happy with playing? If your not happy, then why dont ya just quit?

Op

No, I'm hardly playing the game at all. I'm happy to play for a while, then a PPU shows up and suddenly I have to be a monk or I'm useless. If it was just me, then your point would be fair enough, I don't exactly expect KK to say, "Sure Scikar, we'll change the game right now just for you, even though you're the only one who's pissed off." But I talk to all my friends in game, and nearly all of them feel the same way. So now your point is not fair enough, because there are a lot of people in favour of a change here.

Lexx, the whining about hybrids was 10x worse than it is about PPUs. Hybrids spoilt the game for everyone. PPUs are not as bad as hybrids were. The situation does annoy a lot of people though, which is why we're here discussing about it. I don't believe there will be another round of nerf threads, because apart from monks, I consider the game to be balanced. Even with things like RoLH, a skilled tank/rifle spy/apu/rifle PE can make up for any slight difference between him and the PE he's fighting. With hybrids, a tank was guaranteed to lose 1v1 vs a hyb no matter what he did.

With PPUs it's a similar thing. No matter how good you are, unless you are an APU or a PPU you have next to no value in OP wars. You can hardly hurt a PPU, you certainly can't kill him, yet if you are an APU, suddenly you're a bit more useful because you can antibuff, and if you're a PPU, you are infinitely more valuable to your team. That's why things need to change - because it's not something you can just say "Oh well," and put up with it.

To explain my earlier Star Wars example, yes, it took a sizable force to take out the base. But compared to the entire Rebel fleet? It was just a small commando team. What does it tell us? That in fiction, be it film or game, you can't just have an uber invincible shield that has no weakness. Antibuff is that equivalent. But it's limited to APU monks. Why can't we do something to make the other classes useful in OP wars?

TBH, I think further discussion on this topic serves little use. There are more than enough people making realistic points against PPUs, and few PPUs willing to concede anything at all. Hybrids were in the exact same situation, I think KK will introduce changes to PPUs within the next few patches. Whether or not the PPUs are willing to help the changes or obstruct them will decide whether they go the way of the hybrid or they are properly balanced.

Seezur001

22-10-03, 21:36

Originally posted by ghandisfury
A capped, well setup PPU is "godlike", but this isn't a problem. It's the fact that there is no counter for resserection, parashock is running rampid, and damage boost can reduce your "well thought out" resist setup to a noobs resists. PPUs should be extreamly hard to kill.....unbeleivabley hard to kill.....f***ing outragously hard to kill.....extreamly, unbeleivably, f***ing outragously hard to kill.....but there should be a counter to their spells so they don't unbalance PvP, OP wars, and generall battles the way they do now.

why dont people read the post???

i gave what i thought would be a solution to the para and DB (as rezz goes there should just a a decay time where you cant be rezzed cause your body has gone through accelerated decaying, can just say its one of the draw back to the genrep system)psi resists, its already ingame, KK just needs to make it usefull against DB and PARA!!!!

Stop posting reply's if your not going to listen to what i have to say.

[EDIT] BTW there is a counter to thier spells, it called holy anti buff, cast it on a unsuspectin PPU, and they die quicker than a spy when he has SI

ghandisfury

22-10-03, 22:13

Originally posted by Seezur001
why dont people read the post???

i gave what i thought would be a solution to the para and DB (as rezz goes there should just a a decay time where you cant be rezzed cause your body has gone through accelerated decaying, can just say its one of the draw back to the genrep system)psi resists, its already ingame, KK just needs to make it usefull against DB and PARA!!!!

Stop posting reply's if your not going to listen to what i have to say.

[EDIT] BTW there is a counter to thier spells, it called holy anti buff, cast it on a unsuspectin PPU, and they die quicker than a spy when he has SI

Ummmm...I was agreeing with you..... Anyway, if you make it mandatory for psi resist to work, you screw ALL classes but the PPU because their heals will be less effective, and apu damage would suffer greatly if they wanted to be less susceptable to PPU atacks....how unbalanced is that? As far as "decay time" goes, the difference from your idea and mine is that your idea would prick anybody waiting for a ress, and it wouldn't eliminate "dead spies" from OP battles (or any battle from that matter), not only that, it would hurt a bunch durring hunting, and it still doesn't resolve the fact that only monks are needed in battle......it still doesn't solve the problem of resserection. Mine doesn't effect hunting at all, it makes PEs welcome, and in some cases mandatory for OP battles (any battles), and it will stop the side with the most PPUs always winning.