View Full Version : Dont nerf RoLH pe's. Don't NErf Hybrid Tanks. Dont nerf PPU's. Dont Nerf H-Lightning.
ATM some people want the RoLH nerfed because it's a very powerull pistol and private eyes who use one are very powerfull.
ATM some people want PPU's gone because they can't kill anything with a ppu.
ATM some people want to lom to melee where it will obviously cause demand to be nerfed due to Hybrid Tanks due to Melee needing zero skill and being easy to cap.
ATM some people want Holy Lightning nerfed due to being far too powerfull due to range and damage.
Add 2+2 together. It's called being even. If somthing killed you then you suck. Simple as that. If the enemy has a PPU and you don't, then you will loose. Simple as that. Answer: Either hire a monk or die. Saying bull shit like "I dont want a monk!" is like saying.."I dont want to level up! I want to be a noob but pwn everyone!" it aint gonna happen. As for spies well they arn't overpowering at all. They use a very defensive form of attack (sniping, rifles, stealth) as well as having the greatest access to trade skills.
I am sure that EVERYONE who replies will have somthing to say like... "no no! Not MY Private eye! I get owned by everyone and I want you nerfed!!!!!!!11one"...... Well STFU noob! LEvel your character a bit, get a better setup and perhaps you wont die so often!
Few scenarios for you.
Tank W://CS,PA2,good resist setup, good armour + PPU --vs-- Private Eye W://RoLH, good resist setup, good armour, +ppu.
Winner: Tank. Because a tank with a ppu is basicly defence x2 seings as the PE uses PSI as part of there defence.
Tank W://all of the above minus a PPU monk --vs-- PE W://all of the above -PPU monk
Winner:Private eye due to better speed and slightly better offence + good defence with buffs.
Tank W://all of the above minus a PPU monk --vs-- PE W://all of the above -PPU monk
Conditions: Tank takes PE by surprise.
Winner:Tank because a pe wont have time to buff. The same thing can't be said for the other way round though can it...
APU W://Holy Lightning + top implants and armour --vs-- SPY W://Silent Hunter + Stealth 2
Conditions: Both are aware of each other and are at a great distance. Count down to fight.
Winner: Spy. Because both have long range but a spy can stealth away at the begining and hide in some crates.
It's very circumstantial. Remember this is not Quake III or Counter Strike. Of course the setup and skills and the people you are with is going to have 90% influence of the outcome. Neocron is an RPG.
One last thing to point out. According to the current Nerf Register, nearly every class is overpowering. Is it me or is there something wrong with that?
i agree
maybe a small adjustement on para though for the increased fun of pvp. but i think thats it.
And too people who yell monkacron if you go into pvp against a balanced team with only monks you will be beat and badly at that.
The only thing that needs to be done to the parashock is a drastic decrease in range. Make it so the ppu monk needs to RUN UP to the person, look him/her in the eye and THEN have the audacity to parashock him/her. As close as a melee weapon perhaps.
EDIT: I dont know what Audacity means. I just think it sounds impresive.
HL > RolH > every other gun
Thats the situation.
My PE still uses moveon and PP and can use a RolH. I'm still running around with a Libby but thats just cause i like it.
And i dont think the average tank can beat me. I don't even think a good tank can beat me (and i'm not that better than anyone else when it comes to pvp). So i think the RolH is a bit overpowered cause its to easy to use nowadays.
PPus can't be killed. Fine with me. Well actually, NO. Cause when like 4 tanks are shooting a PPU while he is standing still rezzing someone or i see a rank /50 PPU who can outheal a full clip from a copbot thats BS.
Oh what else. I beat a fully capped tank ( i think, maybe he wasnt con capped but his con setup was damn good) in NF. I beat him 2 out of 3 times. Using only our own buffs or both having full ppu buffs. I won most fights. I'm a spy. Not even capped in dex. Add that to your weird PvP "Who will win" scenarios.
THERE IS NO BALANCE yet.
/edit
bleh im drunk, now that i read my post it sucks. but it took me way too long to write it so i wont just deleten it.
Um SorkZmok, did you know a PPU can't fight back? If a PPU owns you in combat then you suck matey. The nature of a PPU is that they use passive means to stay alive.
As for your weapons comparrison, it's not all about weapons you know. Like i said its circumstantial. YES! Holy Lightning is the best godamn weapon in the game and YES! Apu monks are the only people who can use it. On the other hand a monk can't heal themselves period. Usually 2 on 1 vs an single APU then the apu will be slaughted, but 2 on 1 vs a single Tank or PE then there is more of a chance. Don't forget that there is damage type IE energy, peircing... An APU also can't do pericing damage, nor can they tolerate it. A Melee tank does the best peircing damage with the Paw of Bear and a Tank also withstands Peircing damage better than any other class.
So basicly it's not all about what gunz you have access to. Your theory is flawed.
And about your PE owning every tank you fight. You forget a few things. A tank would probabally own you if he attacked you by surprise no? How much damage could he do to you while you where unbuffed? Also what if both you and the Tank had PPU's. The tank would own you then too.
Yes I think that Neocron is even, as even as a Role Playing Game is EVER going to be. Neocron is NOT quake III. It is damn circumstantial thats what it is.
EDIT ok your drunk. You are forgiven. :)
Originally posted by Benjie
Um SorkZmok, did you know a PPU can't fight back? If a PPU owns you in combat then you suck matey. The nature of a PPU is that they use passive means to stay alive.
I don`t want PPUs to be killable. I just want em balanced. It simply sucks when the main aspect of a game is dominated by ONE SINGLE CLASS. But thats how it is. I want parashocks changed and i want ressurrection changed. I don't even want big changes, i want some small tweaks cause atm ppus can paraspam everyone all the time and rezz everyone everywhere without any problems. And guess whats the only class thats got a chance to kill or even hurt a PPU? YES, its another monk! Bah.
My head aches. I`m gonna go to bed now o_O
Im not crying for a rolh pe nerf, Im calling for a rolh in general nerf-- a spy that uses it does over 200 damage to my fully buffed ppu (capped with 576% on holy shelter, as well as something like 155 energy and 120 fire(this is a fire rolh)) with about 30 shots from a 40 shot clip-- this is of course without healing. A pe using a libby can hit me with 3 clips of phos ammo and do the same damage with no heal going... the rolh is overpowered, no matter what way you look at it.
No it doesnt really matter what the ammo mod is, I have equal resist to fire and xray with my buffs and armor combined, if I remember correctly I should be sitting on exactly 120 from both. I have much less force/pierce resist total than I do energy, and my fire resist being the same, I would expect (as would most anyone) that the libby would out damage the rolh in my particular case... no it doesnt
The RoLH doesnt necissarily need a damage nerf, but its either damage or frequency that needs to get beaten with KK's advanced enlarged sharpened sharpened laserpointed nerf bat
First off, ressurection is part of the attraction and point of the Passive Monk. Without Ressurection who would care? Nobody. It would just make high level mobs overpowering as everybody would opt for the smaller guys. Making everybody complain about raredrop parts, making everybosy complain about monsters being too hard... and so forth.
Parashock, as I stated before, should have range taken away from it. I think that without parashock then ppu's wouldn't have so much of a demand at outpost wars, and considering the way that ppu's level and "fight" it wouldn't be right to do that to them. If the range of the parashock is equal to a melee weapon then it would allow "tactics" to occur. It might actually make the game more fun.
Originally posted by Divide
Im not crying for a rolh pe nerf, Im calling for a rolh in general nerf-- a spy that uses it does over 200 damage to my fully buffed ppu (capped with 576% on holy shelter, as well as something like 155 energy and 120 fire(this is a fire rolh)) with about 30 shots from a 40 shot clip-- this is of course without healing. A pe using a libby can hit me with 3 clips of phos ammo and do the same damage with no heal going... the rolh is overpowered, no matter what way you look at it.
No it doesnt really matter what the ammo mod is, I have equal resist to fire and xray with my buffs and armor combined, if I remember correctly I should be sitting on exactly 120 from both. I have much less force/pierce resist total than I do energy, and my fire resist being the same, I would expect (as would most anyone) that the libby would out damage the rolh in my particular case... no it doesnt
The RoLH doesnt necissarily need a damage nerf, but its either damage or frequency that needs to get beaten with KK's advanced enlarged sharpened sharpened laserpointed nerf bat
The RoLH is overpowered, but PE defence is temporary. To kill a PPU you need a PE with a RoLH. To kill a PE with RoLH you needa Spy with Silent Hunter. To Kill a Spy with Silent Hunter you need an APU. To kill a PPu you need a PE with a ROLH.......
Here is how to kill a PE with RoLH.
Spy with Silent Hunter from a distance.
Tank by Surprise.
APU with Holy Lightning from Distance.
Any Class with a PPU.
Perhaps the best thing to do is take away the ammo mods for it. Jeez I dunno I give up. Nerf the lot of em. Nerf teh droms n' all. Hell nerf grenades while your at it. :rolleyes: I give up.:(
Tired of NERF posts as a whole Benjie?
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.
.
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Your not the only one :)
Benjie why do all of your posts have something like this in them:
benjie makes a thread that he knows will make people post their views on
people disagree with benjie
benjie makes a stuttering attempt at flaming them while sounding slightly intellegent and refraining from using anything insulting
benjie cries because he tries to make everything go full cirlce and realizes that neocron doesnt work like that
If you dont want people to put up their ideas why bother posting anything on the thread? just put the idea on a cork board in your room so you and only you can see and appreciate it because you and only you are going to agree to it fully. Everyone is going to have a differing opinion on how to handle certain situations, and I dont think its acceptable to think that you and only you are right.
This game is NOT full circle
its not:
tank kills spy
spy kills spider
spider kills noob
noob logs alt and kills tank
Despite the fact that some weapons are overpowered, and some classes are clearly overpowered, in general it boils down to skill
1v1 ANY class can beat ANY other so long as the player is fairly skilled in the game. A single spy CAN bring down a ppu, a pe can kill an apu, a tank can sex dead droms-- anything and everything can happen 1v1. A RoLH pe isnt an overpowered class, its about the RoLH having such over the top damage/frequency (you choose which) that causes this weapon to be overpowered. Look at the RoG, it has higher damage and much lower frequency, I havent seen a single soul create a thread about nerfing it... because its fucking balanced. That is what all nerf threads are about ultimately, balance--
a spy can kill a pe
a spy can kill a tank
a spy can kill an apu
a tank can kill a pe
a tank can kill a spy
a tank can kill an apu
etc etc etc
When the game is "perfectly balanced" in a 1v1 situation, there will be no nerf this nerf that threads-- hell when the game becomes perfectly balanced, Ill bet most people will fucking quit because their specific class/weapon has been nerfed so that they cant take unfair advantage over another class/weapon. Look at the way things are going, people no longer play tanks because they arent the top dog, and are on to monks, when monks finally get the nerf that is coming to them (or the other classes get the boost that is coming to them) then people will stop playing monks, eventually people will run out of options and say "damn Im bored with this game" and will leave... we have seen it many many times before.
blah I dont feel like typing anymore, take this however you see fit, Im going to play some fucking nc and getting of these forums because every time I read a thread I feel like Ive been beaten over the head with an aluminum baseball bat-- fucking stupid. Why do I keep coming back to read this stuff? who fucking knows, Ill see you on another thread and another point in time
Divide, yes. You must be super intellegent to have thwarted my plan. How did you know? How did you decipher my pattern? Now you are my only advisarry in my plot to overthrow Lord Bascon and take over the world. o_O
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Just like I am. In the same way that you posted against what I put, I will post against what you put. Either you are a hypocritte or you didn't notice the ever so more imporant patern that you where contributing to. A forum is all about opinions mister, and I wouldn't be too surprised if you see more of them in the very near future. By the way thankyou, yes. I do try my hardest not to resort to flaming, and to post as intulectually as possible. I am glad you noticed my courtesy.
stalked monkey
22-10-03, 06:08
I was having a great time with my two higher level Spy and Pe friends at the bunker in j_02. All of a sudden, two jerks from TG came along. (No naming names cause i'll get banned.) The PPU started hacking our warbot, so we shot at him. The APU started casting like a hampster out of a gay guy's ass and killed the spy almost instantly. The PE followed shortly. I hopped into my 4v4 (I am a tank that can drive and shoot the 4v4) and proceeded to rip the APU to shreds... until he got a deflector. All of a sudden I was doing no damage. So I hop out, get back in and drive away to the bunker, as the guards were starting to shoot. The PPU rezzed the APU and buffed him back up. I set up the 4v4 near the bunker, and began shooting again. I killed the APU, and was working on the PPU when he just sheltered, deflected, healed, and proceeded to rezz the APU. (Lame part #1) The APU started shooting me again, so I jumped out and ran inside bunker to heal. The PPU put all buffs and heals onto the APU and he ran in to shoot me. He took almost no damage as he ran straight in to the bunker who had about 7 guards outside and two guards inside plus me with a rocket launcher. He took almost NO damage. (Lame part #2)
Discuss.
So whaat the fuck is this? My capped (yes, ALL stats capped) RoLH doesn't do pretty much any damage to my PPU-bitch when he's buffed and healing... that's how it's with that holy lightning that does about 7 damage to him when he's NOT healing. :p
Oh well, sorry to say this but you guys suck. :)
Edit: And oh yeah, unless you have a totally ninja computer, the RoLH's 50/min higher rof compared to RoG doesn't help much. A few well aimed bursts from RoG is a lot more effective.
Originally posted by stalked monkey
Discuss.
How did you attack them? I assume you all attacked them head first right? Wrong. Esspecially vs an APU and a PPU. Here is a good tactic. The PE self buffs, then buffs you. The spy either stealths or drives away, failing that runs away. While the PE keeps you and himself bugged, it would be 2 firearms against one. You should both be going for the APU and distracting him. Now the spy pulls out a Silent Hunter. He would slowly but surely help you Finish off the APU. You then concentrate on and kill a PPU and once healed, forget about buffing. 3 People with decent weaponry should easily be able to fall a single PPU, it just takes time.
For the record, NEVER run away from a PPU as a tactic. It's the stupidist thing you can EVER do in a Neocron Brawl.
Also don't forget that you actually did kill the APU, it's not like you got owned, you just lost. I blame the fact that you ran away. heh.
QuantumDelta
22-10-03, 06:25
Heh.
Next time, just park ontop the APUs corpse.
Originally posted by Benjie
Divide, yes. You must be super intellegent to have thwarted my plan. How did you know? How did you decipher my pattern? Now you are my only advisarry in my plot to overthrow Lord Bascon and take over the world. o_O
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Just like I am. In the same way that you posted against what I put, I will post against what you put. Either you are a hypocritte or you didn't notice the ever so more imporant patern that you where contributing to. A forum is all about opinions mister, and I wouldn't be too surprised if you see more of them in the very near future. By the way thankyou, yes. I do try my hardest not to resort to flaming, and to post as intulectually as possible. I am glad you noticed my courtesy.
Yes, a forum is all about opinions, and if you are going to reply to my first opinionated post with this :
The RoLH is overpowered, but PE defence is temporary. To kill a PPU you need a PE with a RoLH. To kill a PE with RoLH you needa Spy with Silent Hunter. To Kill a Spy with Silent Hunter you need an APU. To kill a PPu you need a PE with a ROLH.......
you are posting your same damn opinion again, and the full circle shit again-- this game doesnt work in a full circle, and THAT is what these nerf threads are about. Ive read over your and my posts a few times, and I fail to see how I am hypocritical in any way shape or form, but maybe Im missing something, or maybe you are creating your own theories about my posts... who knows-- all Im saying is that the full circle shit is not true, and that you shouldnt reply to a well thought out post with a paraphrase of what you posted before.
oh, and here is how to kill a rolh pe-
beat his monkey(no not monk) ass down with superior skills, OR another completely overpowered weapon, of which there really arent any.
My pe doesnt have much of a problem bringing down rolh pe's, my spy has a bit of trouble with them however, and this is how I expect it to be-- but Ive seen too many shitty players with shit con setups take complete advantage of the fact that the RoLH is overpowered to beat others. Hell, Ive seen a pe that uses the rolh now, and wins just about every other fight he is a part of, but before when he used the lib/judge/bs got the shit kicked out of him EVERY FUCKING TIME he walked into pepper... that is why I have a problem with the rolh, it turns a shit player into a contender, and there is something wrong with that in my humble opinion.
oh, and damn Lord Bascon!
KRIMINAL99
22-10-03, 07:06
PPUs need to be made more killable somehow. Thats just the way it is. Just cause ppus have been killed before doesn't mean they are balanced. They are support characters with tons of abillities that noone else has and awesome team buffing/healing abilities. They shouldnt also be invincible themselves to less than like 3 people.
Think about it. PPU's are killable - So a tank and a PE attack a APU and PPU. They have to dodge really fast rof insta aim attacks- one that does a ton of damage, a lot more than other types, and the other can be an 80 percent slow attack or a dam increaser attack. The apu is heavily shielded and heals very fast thanks to the ppu.
All of that is without the fact that the ppu can outheal damage. If the ppu was made killable, your going to tell me that it would be unfair?
There are a ton of ways to fix it. Maybe there could be a debuff pistol that poked a hole in his shield for like 1 second per hit, and there would have to be someone else shooting him to take adv of it. But I really think that any class should have at LEAST a 50 percent chance against a PPU 1v1. In fact a better chance than that would be fair considering all the special abilities he has. Not saying he should be easy to kill quickly. Just that if he hangs around and fights soemone he should lose. But they can always just para and run so...
I will say one thing tho. I had forgotten that tl 3 heals and tl 9 deflectors could be used on them. This is exactly the type of thing that I would probably ask to be implemented, so I guess maybe its ok as it is. But thats only as long as psi resist doesnt do anything (If it doesn't now)
JackScratch
22-10-03, 07:29
I was with a party today that encountered a nasty PKing PE/PPU combo. There were enough of us by the end to kill the PE but we chased the PPU across the zone. At the end everyone cried "Nurf the PPU Nurf the PPU" because some 8 or 9 people couldnt kill him. Whats wrong with this picture? Ill tell you what is wrong with it. Every one in the party was useing energy weapons. Now, why do you suppose 8 or 9 high rank people couldnt kill a PPU, useing energy weapon? Could it be, because Monks have energy armour out the wazoo? Why yes I believe it would. Here is a clue for you Nerf the PPU, Nerf the PPU, types, force/pierce damage. Dust off all those low tech weapons and give them a go. Now dont get me wrong, your capped tank isnt going to go out and solo PPUs all day long, they need to be out numbered. But dont whine, even 1 on 1 you will be in no danger unless you put all of you con into END and HLTH, in which case you deserve to be "pwned". The PPU (pure PPU) can only do energy damage, that's it, and poor energy damage at that. SO just can the Nerf the PPU talk.
Lol last night I was at an op war. Tried to gank a monk who came outside the op . I was using a SH. He hit me with some fire stuff. Anyways I wont claim that all my buffs were still running(its a bit hard when you stealth around away from team you know)and my aim aint all that, but it aint all bad either. Anyways I got to squeze of 1 round that hit this monk. Damage was 33. I had a hard time keeping a bead on him, but he wasnt getting closer so ok. Suddenly he got two fire stacks on me and I was dead in 4 seconds. Yupp I have no fire resist, but would it matter if i had?6 seconds instead of 4? I think I was just inside the range of his spell, but what range he had!!!!
So this means. Spies have range as an advantage. Here we are seriously gimped by clipping. So if you take that into account I would say that monk with his fire stuff got about 2/3 of my range, perhaps a little less. Btw, its not often a spy gets to enjoy the full range he has in an op fight, because of op walls and terrain. Some claim that this game doesnt have one hit kills. Thats right. It got 2 hit kills. The difference? about 1.2 seconds for a spy.
Also no need to close the reticule to hit. BIG advantage during fights with alot of people where the warhammer of lag stomps my comp. My reticule jerks so slow and in-consistent that trying to anticipate it is very difficult.
I`m getting tired of writing whiny posts. It gets me in a bad mood and I`m sure it doesnt bring anything good for you guys either.
I`ve tried to think through my game, tried to play smart with my rifle spy. I stalk around outside the ops waiting for loners to try and make their way around that way. I try to keep range(got me a lesson this night, so ill be even longer away next time) and play on my strengths. For what? 33 damage to an buffed apu once in a while. Its not possible to keep up the rof and hits to generate the damage needed to make a difference. So what do I do, I attack spies. Lol spies have their own cute little battle inside the battle. It has no possible way of tilting the real battle in any direction. Its just for a cheap thrill.
I dont wanna play a monk. Its not about lvling and stuff, its just to much magic for my part. Tanks nah it aint for me. So that leaves me with the pe and the spy. I`ve played the spy for the most part. I`ve tried to play a combat spy (read:combat=nerfed tradeskills=specialisation=should=apu/ppu specialisation) hoping there would eventually be a part for my char in this game. And its not about pwning every person that I can get my eyes on. Its about feeling usefull for my clan, perhaps get a pat on the back by your clan mates for a job well done. I tried being a recon spy. Whats the point? With all the ressing and buffs it is no point in me saying ohh they got weak defence if we are coming from the west. A charge gets abrubtly halted cause it aint possible to kill someone semi-fast, the enemy has all the time in the world to react. Its come to the point where I feel like I`m just a waste of psi-pool points at the pre-battle buff up.
So.....it turned into a big, long whiney post again. Im sorry. I`ve come to a conclusion though. It seems this game isnt for me. I think im gonna re-roll to a pe as a last attempt to locate any fun. I hope I can find it again.
Original monk
22-10-03, 10:02
Lo benjie, yust to tell you that youre a 100% right and, and to tell ya i am tired of nerf whiners also :)
+ i hope this thread doesnt end up as a full nerf the ppu thread (looks at kriminal99) :P like alot of threads end up with °°°°°°
And i think divide should take youre words with a gram of salt, this meaning that he shouldnt take youre words so literal, so divide : chill man, take a deep breath, inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale, inhale and never exhale :P
gl all
Solution:
-Implement rare nailgun(s) or even epic ones
-Implement shield piercing ammunition usable in nailguns and snipers.
--> the "weak" classes are PPU killers \o/
Edit: And tanks... oh they're pretty useless after this then. :)
spydre1070
22-10-03, 10:09
Nope Holy Lightning should not have the range it has. As Thanatos said I believe, those will be changed to a more closer single ranged attack. God I can't wait til that patch.
Are you going to argue that when an old hybrid killed my tank in a 1v1 it's because I suck, and nothing to do with him being overpowered?
Idd all this nerf shit getting annoying , like ''rolh is overpowered'' i mean wtf? a capped PE hurts me a on my monk when im buffed but a rolh doenst even do jack shit when i have a ppu with me. So its all about ur setup and the situation u are (buffed, or non-buffed etc..). RolH is a very good weapon idd, no reason to get it nerfed right away(it should have lower distance though) So a perfect nerf doesnt exist at all if u ask me.
ericdraven
22-10-03, 10:26
Originally posted by Divide
When the game is "perfectly balanced" in a 1v1 situation, there will be no nerf this nerf that threads
Dream on.
Some people just CAN'T lose. As soon as someone like this dies he will run to the forum and open another "nerf!!!!!11" thread.
Because the reason that he died was NOT lack of his own skills, no, it was because his opponent plays an overpowered class... (question to those people - what do you complain about if the attacker plays the SAME class as you do? hmm.. ah, i know the answer by myself - he was expl0iting.. of course! :D )
Originally posted by ericdraven
Dream on.
Some people just CAN'T lose. As soon as someone like this dies he will run to the forum and open another "nerf!!!!!11" thread.
Because the reason that he died was NOT lack of his own skills, no, it was because his opponent plays an overpowered class... (question to those people - what do you complain about if the attacker plays the SAME class as you do? hmm.. ah, i know the answer by myself - he was expl0iting.. of course! :D )
I repeat my question. Are you going to argue that somehow old hybrids weren't overpowered, they just blessed anyone playing them with magically heightened reflexes and a newfound ability to track enemies and dodge them at the same time?
Your right draven, nerf threads every day almost :s
ericdraven
22-10-03, 10:30
Originally posted by Scikar
I repeat my question. Are you going to argue that somehow old hybrids weren't overpowered, they just blessed anyone playing them with magically heightened reflexes and a newfound ability to track enemies and dodge them at the same time?
Dear Scikar, i played one of those overpowered Hybrids by myself and i KNEW they were overpowered and i wanted them to get nerfed because it was utterly boring to play them.
But do you want to compare ANY of the current classes to those hybrids?? Show me ONE class which wins 99% of a duel like the old hybrids did before.. now i am really curious..
Original monk
22-10-03, 10:44
Originally posted by Scikar
I repeat my question. Are you going to argue that somehow old hybrids weren't overpowered, they just blessed anyone playing them with magically heightened reflexes and a newfound ability to track enemies and dodge them at the same time?
the hybrids where indeed overpowered (a bit hard), and that was not like the monks are now, thats also why kk decided to nerf em (read: they killed em as some sort of punishment for all the fun they have had till then :) ) or they yust listend to all them hybrid whiners and yust killed that class, like a good company that listens to the majority off their costumers (sarcastic) :angel:
daamn i still miss being a hybrid, not for the fact they where good in pvp but for the fact that ya could atleast be fully independant from any other classes when leveling/ hunting mobs.
I loved solo-ing the shaman with a holy catharsis sanctum/antipoisonsanctum running and using a energybeam/poisonbeam to kill that funny mob :)
snif, ressurect the hybrid , make em viable again please :P
I'm not saying at all that any class is overpowered to the same degree as a hyb. But I do believe that there are parts of the game that are not balanced. If it was acceptable to suggest that an old hyb needed to be balanced, why is it not acceptable to suggest that PPUs, or HL, or RoLH, or anything else needs changing? Are you trying to tell me that it's OK to complain when something is seriously imbalanced, but not when it's only a bit imbalanced? Who draws this line that an imbalance must cross before anyone can post about it?
Or are you saying it's only acceptable to nerf a class if the majority of the class agrees with the nerf? :rolleyes:
When I make a post about balance issues I post because IMO if changes were made the game would become more enjoyable for the majority of the people involved. That means that it's not just in my opinion, it's not just because I got killed, it's because I really think that a change needs to be made. Taking PPUs as an example, it's not just me who believes they are imbalanced, and I am fully aware that many PPUs don't agree with me. Having weighed that up, my evaluation is that while some people won't like change, it is worth it overall, so I post.
A lot of the problem is that people suggest perfectly acceptable mild tweaks, then KK ignore the suggestion/idea for months at a time.
Suddenly, out of the blue with no apparent trigger, they embark on what looks like a methamphetamine fuelled frenzy and smash it with a sledgehammer, drive over the broken remains in a steamroller, then douse it in petrol and burn the fucker...
.... and call this "balancing".
It's truly bizarre. It's like someone on the code team does a small tweak once a week, then sticks it in a drawer. 3 months later he suddenly finds there's no more room in the drawer, then smacks in all 12 small tweaks at once in one fucking great mega-nerf-supa-patch.
ericdraven
22-10-03, 11:33
Scikar, i am mainly talking about those $§%$§% who want to REMOVE an entire (sub)class.. i know that YOUR posts are fine and quite objective.
But those nerf-spammers who are crying daily about every shit just because they got killed are utterly annoying..
My take:
1.) ppus: ok i hate em... but for wut their worth their OK... minus the para... it ruins everything. so get rid of that and we're all good. Maybe tone down heal effects on others too to 50% effectivenes...
2.) apus: personaly i think their fine and balanced tho 2 things might need changing: first is range; i wouldnt say decrease to 1/2 of current but more like 75% of current range... second increase the RoF on FA to 105/min like all spells... i dunt say boost/nerf dmg because frankly i believe its fine as it is; APUs are ment to have the highest dmg in the game and they do...
3.) pistols: RoLH... man if u can cap it that thing owns... the main change that needs to be made is that it hits too easily, as in the aim is too easy... u just cant miss... that and its high dmg and rof makes it a dangerous weapon... but again if u take away one thing (aim, dmg, or rof) and its perfectly balanced...
4.) melee: while the introduction of PA made it a bit better (tho not much) i think we can all agree that melee needs a little luvin in the weapons area... u got the dg which stops at tl 103 (i think) which i believe is the lowest of the "high end" tech weapons in the game... boost that or add in new weaps, then increase the TL of melee so hybrid tanks will not be viable... then that is all good.
the rest: (both types) PEs, (all three types) spies, and HC tanks i feel are all fairly balanced AS A CLASS in terms of possible abilities. And other than the pistols which need more thought i think theyre fine...
oh one more thing: FL needs a bigger clip :D
KRIMINAL99
22-10-03, 14:51
Originally posted by japata
Solution:
-Implement rare nailgun(s) or even epic ones
-Implement shield piercing ammunition usable in nailguns and snipers.
--> the "weak" classes are PPU killers \o/
Edit: And tanks... oh they're pretty useless after this then. :)
Hey shield piercing ammo... I like it!!! That would be perfect.
@ Eric Draven- A ppu with a capped TAR or s33f smg isnt much different than a hybrid. Some less powerful but not much. And no I haven't been killed by a PPU any time in the past 6 months. I have seen them being attacked by several characters at once taking 0 damage for the most part and instantly healing the part back that is lost when holy heal runs out. Their friends are almost as powerful with him around, and even if you manage to kill the friends they will just be rezzed if you can't kill the ppu.
Originally posted by ericdraven
Scikar, i am mainly talking about those $§%$§% who want to REMOVE an entire (sub)class.. i know that YOUR posts are fine and quite objective.
But those nerf-spammers who are crying daily about every shit just because they got killed are utterly annoying..
Fair enough I suppose. Though in all honesty I'm starting to see more people whining about whiners than people whining about being killed. :p
JackScratch
23-10-03, 17:50
Im sick of the nerf threads, they are made by people who havent given any thought to all of the posible angles to what they are talking about.
PPUs - Unkillable, rightly so as they lack any killig power what so ever. If you dont think that is a fair trade then you will be whineing till there is 1 and only 1 class, and I doubt you will stop then.
Stun - Between shooting legs out, and the extremely low CON and DEX of the monk, the very best of the stuns still puts you on even ground with the monk, unless you consider the aforementioned inability to do damage the PPU suffers from, in wich case, you still win.
APUs - APUs do mega damage but they are made of paper. So you are sporting a silent hunter, got that baby anywhere near capped? Unless you cap or come close to capping your weapons, they will do a fraction of their potential damage. Also, I have a feeling that there are some very viable hybrids running around out there, its and art form and so much as one point spent in the wrong place and it wont work, but If you are concerned about that then whine about nerfing the hybrids again, and leave the other 2 alone.
Finaly, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, you need to kill a monk, you arent going to do it with energy. Dust of all your lowtech force/pierce weapons and go to town. This is true for both types of monks, but doubly for the PPU. And dont think that just because you have a maxed PE your going to solo a capped PPU, even with force/pierce on your side he is going to be hard to kill, but fear not, unless you are a mid to low rank or you are an idiot who doesnt know how to assign your resists, there is absolutely no way that monk will ever ever ever kill you. As long as you have any heal what so ever.
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