Increase PE dex cap to 85

[Ryleck]

Yes, i beleice that the pes should have a dex cap of 80 so with all +5 dex imps give 110 and 115 with PA. Also with a SA it will be 116 so you could use Disruptor.

Thinking in the mind of neocron, do you think someone who has been studying weapons and is the absoloute the best anyone could ever be at using weapons should be able to use any of them.

Your opinions please

(please dont just vote no to try to screw us pe's over simply because you dont have one yourself)

[Keiron]

I am a PE and I vote no. If we want to use a spy weapon, then play a spy (or drug like a whore). BTW, if you think I'm trying to just nerf PE's look at my sig :P

[Dribble Joy]

I dont really want to loose 5 ponits i another skill.
Besisdes that will make PEs too tough. Tank lvl defence and spy offence.
NO.
PEs are good enough as it is with the PEPAs.
High end rares are for spys.

Yes, I am a PE. Should PEs be able to use RoLH? Not without serious gimpage.

[Eledhbrant]

Do you really want one of the other max levels lowered by 5 then? Because they cant increase without a decrease.





Thinking in the mind of neocron, do you think someone who has been studying weapons and is the absoloute the best anyone could ever be at using weapons should be able to use any of them.

Thats exactly it, PE's are NOT the best anyone could ever be at using weapons (Dex based ones in this case), spies are.

Going by your mindset then a spy should be allowed all spells etc.

[Doc Holliday]

i think they should. cant be arsed to think of a good reason why but yeah it would be cool. just minus their psi or somthin seen as pe pa does that already. ( i dont use the pa so i dont give a fuck either way. if we lose ability for def then i might use it so hehe more benefit for me huh )

[Marx]

Originally posted by Keiron
I am a PE and I vote no. If we want to use a spy weapon, then play a spy

I agree with this comment 100%

voted no.

[Rade]

No need for it, PEs are fine as they are in that aspect.

[enablerbr]

speaking as a SPY who had this sh!t pulled on him with DEX and lost STR. i say if you want the DEX boost fine. just loose your STR. then see how cool the extra DEX is.:p

[Dribble Joy]

DO NOT UPSET THE BALANCE!!!

PEs are almost 'complete' they are a diverse and balanced class and need little fixing. Don't fix what ain't broke.

[der Ed]

Fix that their psi skills are absolutely useless as soon as a ppu is near though :)

[Dribble Joy]

PE self buffs are nearly as good as a buff from a PPU, their resists hardly need the extra buffs from heat 3 over heat 1 if setup right.
PEs are indepantant, leaving the PPUs to help others.

[FuzzyDuck]

PEs are fine as they are, perhaps a little too overpowered with the new PA. Disruptor is for spies and spies alone, let them have something worth leveling up for.

*strokes Disruptor*

[Darth Slayer]

I vote no because I'm a droner and If I'm gimped then so should everyone else.........Raaaaarrrrrrrr.......:lol:

[Oath]

Not a chance in hell.

[Judge]

No.... leave PEs the fuck alone. I'm a PE and I would not want to see that.

Losing either str, cons, int or psi would fuck us up more than having 85 Dex would help.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hell no, they already have too much defense as it is. No need to increase their offense too now.

[Oath]

To the 5 + people that said yes.......

Have you capped your PE and learned to fight properly with them?

If you had then perhaps you would realise that there are MANY people who like to complain about Pe's already being overpowered (im one of them tbh) a + 5 dex increase would not only result in fuking up ALL pe's that currently play, but you'd piss off perhaps EVERY other class (ppus dont care theyre uber anyway eh?)

Whatever. DAD ADADAD AD A D ADADA D AD ADDDADAD ADADAD DAD.

Whatever. DAD ADADAD AD A D ADADA D AD ADDDADAD ADADAD DAD.

Peace.

[Judge]

Just a point shadow... but if they increased the cap then we wouldn't be able to use either:

Duranit/inq 2

Blessed def/Shelter boots

Med belts

Less resists

Because of the -ve 5 that would be put onto another skill.

[Shujin]

my ressin pe kix ass, he can res over TL 200 ;]

his int is 90 somethin and dex is about 90 somethin, str about 56 ( minus's from imps ), con is about 50somethin, and psi is about 45

[Oath]

Originally posted by Judge
Just a point shadow... but if they increased the cap then we wouldn't be able to use either:

Duranit/inq 2

Blessed def/Shelter boots

Med belts

Less resists

Because of the -ve 5 that would be put onto another skill.

whos to say it would be a - 5.......could be - 10 to str.......could be 0- 5 to two skills.......

Ill say one thing, pes are fine, they can use most shit that they perhas should have access to, but one thing they do not need is more dex, more dex = unbalancing, you then get into the realm of spys.....

Wich ISN'T good

[Birkoff]

If PEs get +5 dex.. why be a spy? :)

[NS_CHROME54]

no kidding.

giving pe's a 5+ increase in dex would just make them uber spies. i shudder to think how unbalanced it would make things if you had all these capped PE's running around with disruptors. it would be PEcron.

[QuantumDelta]

No, for over half a dozen balance related issues.

[ericdraven]

No, choose a spy if you want more DEX.

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Ryleck
Yes, i beleice that the pes should have a dex cap of 80 so with all +5 dex imps give 110 and 115 with PA. Also with a SA it will be 116 so you could use Disruptor.

Thinking in the mind of neocron, do you think someone who has been studying weapons and is the absoloute the best anyone could ever be at using weapons should be able to use any of them.

Your opinions please

(please dont just vote no to try to screw us pe's over simply because you dont have one yourself)

you say you think they should have 80...

you wanna use everyweapon...

you claim they study weapons...

PE's are supposed to be your average guys, SPIES are tech masters and as such use all weapons (other than heavy / melee)

i would 100% agree with this however, if spies got their str cap raised by 5 (at the mo ALL classes have the same amount of stats, overall) allowing me to get 52 str with imps - meaning more armour ^.^

spies arent meant for loads of armour... and PE's are meant to be average in all skills, master of no weapon - but proficiant at all (dont kill me QD haha! im not saying nerf or change... and i didnt use the term JOAT :p)


NC Junkie

[Original monk]

give em +5 dex, give a spy +5 psi, give a monk +5 psi, give a tank +5 con, done :P

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Original monk
give em +5 dex, give a spy +5 psi, give a monk +5 psi, give a tank +5 con, done :P psi's get main skill...
PE's get main skill...
spies get PSI?
tanks get second main skill


as a spy i would prefer str :p (i know thats not a mains skill)


anyway i say leave all classes as is... other than possibly range on APU i think the game is balanced as it is right now

NC Junkie

[Lareolan]

This has to be one of the stupidest ideas to unbalance the game yet this week. Good going!

[Jesterthegreat]

haha


agreed ^.^

[Rade]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
psi's get main skill...
PE's get main skill...
spies get PSI?
tanks get second main skill


as a spy i would prefer str :p (i know thats not a mains skill)


anyway i say leave all classes as is... other than possibly range on APU i think the game is balanced as it is right now

NC Junkie

No you would prefer psi. thinkthinkthink.

[Richard Slade]

I still wanna know why Spy PA get's -INT
IT'S FRIGGIN' HORRIBLE!
Sucks that spies are the ONLY class to get a MAINSKILL REDUCE
from a friggin' PA..

Oh to the topic..

I don't like PE's! Nerf the PE's!
Whatevva, just don't mess them up, they're good as they are atm.

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Rade
No you would prefer psi. thinkthinkthink.

i have thoughtthoughtthought

i would far prefer the opertunity to wear a full set of inq 1 armour than use shelter and deflecter

inq legs / boots / helm and spy PA wou,d give me decent Xray resist, and a big fire boost...

i (personally) have a kami in, so i have more body health than your average spy - and less NRG resist... however to me a full inq 1 set is far better than shelter / deflecter combo (as i already have deflecter and i would usually only cast both for duels - but armour is constant!)


:p


NC Junkie


(Str 45 cap +3 STR booster 2 +3 from moveon =51 str)



:edit:

@richard slade

tanks get -CON

PE's may not have main skill reduction - but we all know PE defence is greatly enhanced by Psi powers


Psis get no -Stat but thats another bitch thread altogether haha

:edit2:

im not defending the -INT on spies... i am a spy with PA and a kami chip... i have -34 int or something... bye bye stealth

[Rade]

jester.. MOVEON bez-2 str booster 2 thats 49 str, enough for inq
1 helmet boots and legs. Thats whats on my spy (my friends spy
to be exact, im using him) and its working wonders. With 5 more
psi you could use shelter without durgs and without the psi use
for mana.

[Richard Slade]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
@richard slade

tanks get -CON


And a BIG + in armor... Doesn't make a big diff with the -con anyways
since I can't think of many thing's who'll need 95 con to be used.

[CRAIG DIGGERS]

Originally posted by Keiron
I am a PE and I vote no. If we want to use a spy weapon, then play a spy (or drug like a whore)

Agree RoG is enough

[Barak]

the only PE change i'd like to see is...

65 con -> 60 con
35 psi -> 40 psi

and besides the lvl 4 PEPA is like having a extra 5 dex anyway

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Rade
jester.. MOVEON bez-2 str booster 2 thats 49 str, enough for inq
1 helmet boots and legs. Thats whats on my spy (my friends spy
to be exact, im using him) and its working wonders. With 5 more
psi you could use shelter without durgs and without the psi use
for mana.

haha maybe - but i dont intend to lose 3 implants with +dex / +pc to get str... i would be far more efficiant with 5 FREE str points than 5 FREE psi points



dont get me wrong i see where your coming from... and i see its possible to use inq 1 set without the +5 str and you wouldnt need to drug for shelter - but i would personally like the str more

maybe how you play it would be better with the psi. but you cant decide how a class should get a bonus based on how you set up your char... which is why i said personally i would like str, not WE NEED STR NOT PSI!!!11!11oneoneone

i intend to run a SA, Exp Balistic 3, MOVEON, Pistol Kami, Str Booster2, anti-gamma bones setup spy

yes i wanna use a kami at capped... everyone else has written it off as useless... so i wanna see for myself. i am currently 103 Dex with PA2 on and i cap all pistols (aiming and damage - possibly RoF) including my unmodded 1 slot slasher.

i get 493 RoF on my tl92 tangent pulselaser pistol

NC Junkie

[KramerTheWeird]

yes
while we're at it
give us +20 PSI
so we can use blessed psi spells and ressurect :) nah that won't be overbalancing.. couldn't be!

[Richard Slade]

Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
yes
while we're at it
give us +20 PSI
so we can use blessed psi spells and ressurect :) nah that won't be overbalancing.. couldn't be!

Why not give them a +10 Str too so they can use some good armor

Hmm they need +20int too so they should have no probs with stealth II

And yes not to forget +10con so they get 50 points extra to use

What?
There's other classes that have those things?

[KramerTheWeird]

yup, even with all those excellent suggestions, us PE's still wouldn't as good as monks..














:p

[Lexxuk]

No need, my PE caps ray of god @ 114% dmg, and my PE isnt even capped, 5 extra dex would be overkill. Nope ;)

[Rizzy]

I know lets just make the pes caps 100/100/100/100/100

[Judge]

Originally posted by Rizzy
I know lets just make the pes caps 100/100/100/100/100

Wow.... man you read my mind














:p :p :p

[Keiron]

Originally posted by Rizzy
I know lets just make the pes caps 100/100/100/100/100 Aww man, and gimp us? We won't be able to do anything:rolleyes: . Those caps need to be well over 150/175/200/250 [/sarcasm]

[Leebzie]

O m g...

ive been playing my new apu (started it a few hours before the pepa came out)... does this mean that i can use a first love...




omg please say yes. the smile will be horrendous.

[Rade]

Well, you need to drug for FL and that disruptor thingie, but its
possible yes. Not a very good option imo but possible.

[Leebzie]

drugs ? n00000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Is that on normal setup (getting subskills) or can u do it with pure +DEX imps ?

[Shadow Dancer]

Holy crap, the last 2 pages of this thread are hilarious. :D

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Holy crap, the last 2 pages of this thread are hilarious. :D LOL
Community went insane....r :p

Needs closing though before someone's throat gets slit. :p

*Eyes Junkeh* :p

Remember;
DEX Combat specialists (not as proficient as spies), who draw on all statlines simultaneously to compete in close range combat or ranged combat in far more variable styles than any other class :P

[Mr_Snow]

If anything PEs now need a dex reduction. They shouldnt even be able to use a RoG or a judge without a serious gimpage as they are hi-tech weapons and PEs shouldnt be able to use them effectively as Hi-tech are spy weapons. If you want to use a disrupter start a spy or drug yourself up to your eyeballs either way giving PEs a dex boost will unbalance this game even more then it is now(which is saying alot).

[Rade]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
They shouldnt even be able to use a RoG or a judge without a serious gimpage as they are hi-tech weapons and PEs shouldnt be able to use them effectively as Hi-tech are spy weapons.

Nice pulling stuff out of your ass session you got going there.

[Marx]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
If anything PEs now need a dex reduction. They shouldnt even be able to use a RoG or a judge without a serious gimpage as they are hi-tech weapons and PEs shouldnt be able to use them effectively as Hi-tech are spy weapons. If you want to use a disrupter start a spy or drug yourself up to your eyeballs either way giving PEs a dex boost will unbalance this game even more then it is now(which is saying alot).

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dribble Joy]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
If anything PEs now need a dex reduction. They shouldnt even be able to use a RoG or a judge without a serious gimpage as they are hi-tech weapons and PEs shouldnt be able to use them effectively as Hi-tech are spy weapons. If you want to use a disrupter start a spy or drug yourself up to your eyeballs either way giving PEs a dex boost will unbalance this game even more then it is now(which is saying alot).

Even with my current setup, I could use the judge with a loss of 5 dex.

Take the RoG and judge from PEs and you remove yet more weapon choices, adding to the cookie stiuation further. (not that aeople consider the judge a viable option but nm.)

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by Rade
Nice pulling stuff out of your ass session you got going there.

So you dont think paineasers are a good enough weapon when you have resists better then a tanks?

And dribble you would try your best to use a judge if it was reduced to a cap of 60.

In reality PE PA has unbalanced the PE class which was in my opinion the most balanced up until its introduction.

Rade just cos i like to have a semi-balanced game doesnt mean Im pulling stuff out of my ass, I was considering using a RoG well before PE PA was even announced and tbh I think the PA has turned PEs into mini-spies with a hell of a better con setup.

[Keiron]

If my dex goes down by 5 then someone better start giving me the rare drugs as I am and will remain a Disruptor/First Love PE.

[Rade]

I just wonder where this "PEs are not supposed to use hightech
weapons" is comming from, considering that PEs has used mainly
hightech weapons through beta and the bigger part of retail
except for a short period when liberator was very good.

Second, you wont see an average PE beating a Tank _ever_ and
yet people say Tanks needs buffing. How then are PEs
overpowered? There are a few PEs that can hold their own
against and even beat most Tanks but those are rare, and the
result of fights between a few good PEs and a shitload of
average Tanks cant be used for balancing those classes now can
they?

[Mr_Snow]

Not a chance of it going down not a chance of it changing in any way all these discussions are hypothetical and if even viewed by KK are ignored as too much hassle.

Anyway you should just farm swamp caves would make drugging for a disrupter easier in any event.

[Rade]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Not a chance of it going down not a chance of it changing in any way all these discussions are hypothetical and if even viewed by KK are ignored as too much hassle.

Anyway you should just farm swamp caves would make drugging for a disrupter easier in any event.

Oh I agree that PEs shouldnt get any more dex, thats for sure. I
just didnt really buy your reasoning behind reducing PEs dex.

[Rade]

Then again, change PEs so that they would have 60 in every
stat... They would have insane staying power and still be able to
use a Blacksun. Now that would be overpowered.

[Mr_Snow]

Never said that PEs shouldnt be able to use Hi-tech I said they shouldnt be able to use them without gimping themselves which isnt the case anymore.

oh and most tanks arent that hard to kill these days most of the good ones (well on my server) have moved on and tanks arent balanced very well atm.

[Mr_Snow]

As I said (or meant to say too tired to remember) PEs are currantly the most balanced class and shouldnt be messed with when KK should be trying to balance monks and maybe give some attention to tanks especially melee who are still laughable

[Rade]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Never said that PEs shouldnt be able to use Hi-tech I said they shouldnt be able to use them without gimping themselves which isnt the case anymore.

oh and most tanks arent that hard to kill these days most of the good ones (well on my server) have moved on and tanks arent balanced very well atm.

Exactly how are they not balanced? They have the second
highest damage output in the game combined with very good
defence, with the aid of a PPU they can take by far the most
damage in the game, when not aided by a monk they are still
almost close to PEs when it comes to taking damage. They are
usefull in almost every situation in the game where Spies and PEs
dont have a reason to participate in OP wars anymore.

True, the game revolve around monks now, but Tanks are still
viable, the reason that there are so "few" Tanks around now is
that all the people that plays the flavor of the month rerolled
thier Tank into a Monk (or are whining on the forums just
because they have to actually try to beat people nowadays).

[QuantumDelta]

Actually in PvP CS has the highest damage over time output of any weapon in the game for direct fire weapons.
Other than that rade's whole comment is totally correct :p

Oh'n'Junkeh, Slasher 493 RoF is a bug.
It's real RoF is closer to Liberator RoF.

The info tab displays info included the "firing while reloading" bug, which doesn't actually let you fire when you reload :p

[Rade]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Actually in PvP CS has the highest damage over time output of any weapon in the game for direct fire weapons.
Other than that rade's whole comment is totally correct :p

APU with capped HL munching boosters? o_O

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Rade
APU with capped HL munching boosters? o_O As soon as they run out of mana CS starts to catch up.
There is an eventual point in time where CS > HL
You just don't normally see it in PvP situations :p


edit;
This does of course not precisely include Random damage, and does depend somewhat on burst bonus :p

[Mr_Snow]

Em no they dont when Im playing a ppu I see them as the least threat because they have the least ability to penetrate buffs and resists even spies with disrupters or silent hunters have a better damage potential havent tried comparing them with pistol spies but they are kinda a joke in pvp anyway but Ive seen a RoLH PE kill ppus before and capped paineasers eat through monks spies and tanks only PEs are setup against them. Basically everyone but spies have great resists against tanks but spies dont have great resists agains a breeze.

but then again tanks for the most part are used wrong and should be AE specialists not running up with CS' blazing and if AE damage or radius was improved they would be closer to balance.

Oh not mentioning why melee are unbalanced becuse everyone knows.

[Rade]

I agree on the AE part but the rest of your post is just ignorant.
Go get some real information. Spies can have good resists easy
nowadays, and Tanks do have an amazing damage output, just
go try it for yourself.

[QuantumDelta]

Re Tanks CS vs Monk HL against PPUs;

....That's the whole thing about "...CS over comes HL damage OVER TIME..."
It wont penetrate PPU Buffs, but while APUs explosive damage is extremely impressive when the fighting starts, over a drawn out period of time, the damage the APU does sharply drops off.
CS Damage is constant.

The problem with the constant, slightly lower level damage, is that when it's against something like a PPU, it doesn't show, ever because the PPU Perma-outheals the CS.
Meanwhile, HL will penetrate buffs up to a point, but then the APU has to rely on Mana Replenishing Boosters which drops their damage level BELOW CS.

[Mr_Snow]

Have a tank with capped CS and capped doombeamer and I find my brothers apu with an uncapped HL much more effective in all situations other then bombarding an op.I also find my uncapped RoLH spy more effective if she is with a ppu compared to my tank with a ppu but thats probably a bonus from running up to the mobs and not the semi-random damage and inaccuaracy on a CS.

AS for spy resists the only way I can get good resist in all but poison is to gimp health but I could fix that with a move on but other then doing that its only possible to have 2 strong areas one of which is obviously x-ray

[Rade]

I have a spy with 125 fire/xray/energy armor (with resists
factored in) and 400+ hps without drugs. Dont see a problem
there, only hes not mine, hes my friend, and he wants poking so
he cant have psi use and so cant drug for shelter. Nothing
gimped with that setup, oh and he has stealth 2, capped RoG
and capped PE to go with that.

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

The problem with the constant, slightly lower level damage, is that when it's against something like a PPU, it doesn't show, ever because the PPU Perma-outheals the CS.
Meanwhile, HL will penetrate buffs up to a point, but then the APU has to rely on Mana Replenishing Boosters which drops their damage level BELOW CS.

if it cant get through a buff it cant get through a buff coupled with anti-buff leaves tanks well behind but on venus today there was a rhino running around by itself doing some pretty impressive damage and if it had been used ina decent tactical sense would of been effective rather then making people just duck and cover and heal then attack it again.Its somethign to explore in future op wars anyway.

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by Rade
I have a spy with 125 fire/xray/energy armor (with resists
factored in) and 400+ hps without drugs. Dont see a problem
there, only hes not mine, hes my friend, and he wants poking so
he cant have psi use and so cant drug for shelter. Nothing
gimped with that setup, oh and he has stealth 2, capped RoG
and capped PE to go with that.

Str drugs for inq 1 armour?

Oh btw sorry for the couple of doubling postings and for inadvertantly dragging this thread WAAAAAYY off topic

[Rade]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Str drugs for inq 1 armour?

Oh btw sorry for the couple of doubling postings and for inadvertantly dragging this thread WAAAAAYY off topic

No drugs. Would have destrosol forte for shelter if the char could
have psi use but thats it.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Rade
I have a spy with 125 fire/xray/energy armor (with resists
factored in) and 400+ hps without drugs. Dont see a problem
there, only hes not mine, hes my friend, and he wants poking so
he cant have psi use and so cant drug for shelter. Nothing
gimped with that setup, oh and he has stealth 2, capped RoG
and capped PE to go with that.

Capped PE rof as well?

[KimmyG]

why not crank his str so he could use a CS u want to use a rifle like that go spy.

[kurai]

Originally posted by Rade
I have a spy with 125 fire/xray/energy armor (with resists
factored in) and 400+ hps without drugs. Dont see a problem
there, only hes not mine, hes my friend, and he wants poking so
he cant have psi use and so cant drug for shelter. Nothing
gimped with that setup, oh and he has stealth 2, capped RoG
and capped PE to go with that. Hrmmm.
I'd be interested to know how you managed that without any drugs, even with PA, INQ 1, Heavy Belt, MoveOn & PPR.

Best I can calc is 200 ish Force & Pierce, 110 Energy & Fire, and 145 or so X-Ray. (Factored, and including Resist 1 or 2), health pool 400.

I am struggling to see how that could be increased to 125 for Fire & Energy without raping athletics.