View Full Version : What's up with tradeskills?
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that tradeskills are getting nerfed every 3-4 patches? I mean the only good thing they did for tradeskillers was the introduction of automatically pulling in all parts from inventory to processor for constructors. So all a constructor needs to do is have all the parts, put the BP into the processor and click "start". But other than that, let's see...
* Hacking - Nerfed to prevent ninja-hackers, you now need 3 hackers to hack an OP. All other uses for a hacker are non-existent. (You only need 50 HCK to hack most things other than that, such as WBs. And since hacknet was never made, that means pure hacker characters are useless.) YAY...
* Construction - Nearly every patch removes an item that was previously constructable. Bones, implants, etc... Level 3 (4 in case of smart cyber-eye), level 3 armor, PAs etc cannot be built, but can be bought at 120% quality from vendoor (And quality doesn't make any difference at all to the item itself either. So bad armor protects just as well as REALLY REALLY good armor). So the only use for constructors is building weapons and rares. Added to that the recent improvements to the construction implants and the addition of the machina gloves make it possible for anyone to make a constructor who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA in a matter of 1 day (And the new one doesn't need any of those brain implants and will still be able to build everything at max quality with highest probability of slots).
* Research - Same as Construction, since the two are linked. Since you cannot research those items, you also cannot build them. The fact that research queues cannot be set up (And in fact discouraged. hence the jumping processor window that all researchers have come to know and loathe). So the only use for researchers is researching weapons and rare techs. Added to that the recent improvements to the research backbone and the addition of the machina gloves make it possible for anyone to make a researcher who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA in a matter of 1 day (And the new one doesn't need any of those brain implants and will still be able to research TL122 drones and TL110 rares).
* Barter - Still useful, but because so few items need to be bought and not built, this profession is also really pathetic. The lack of any implants that would increase this skill and the fact that in order to be any good you need to have it REALLY high doesn't help things either. (Since at lower levels this skill doesn't make much of a difference at all).
* Implant - Due to the way this skill works, there is no way to guarantee that you will get paid for your services. Too many lame cheapskates in this game who will go out, kill people, waste money and not actually do some work to get money. Hence they are always poor simply because they don't want to spend the time. But they still want services. So they never pay when they have the option to (Or pay very little if they are forced to like with other skills). Added to that the fact that the skill itself has very limited use: All you can do is "poke" implants into people. It doesn't allow you to do anything else, and even though implants are important, it doesn't really justify putting 110 points into an INT skill if you get nothing out of it and have VERY limited use compared to other tradeskills.
* Repair - Once again, highly nerfed skill since you only need half the points in a skill to repair items of a certain TL. The addition of many implants to give plenty of points to this skill (VHC3 - 15 points = 30 TL) make this tradeskill possible for pretty much anyone to have and removes the need for actual repairers. Now, it's true that the better someone's skill is, the better their repairs will be, but with the speed at which items degrade in this game: Weapons/implants need repairs very rarely. In most cases you'll get new ones before you break the old ones. And as for armor, it breaks fast, but in most cases it's easier to just buy new armor from store than find a repairer. (Because they have such ridiculously useless skill, obviously no one wants to play them. So when the skill is needed, you can never find someone who has it.)
* Recycle - Finally, the worst of the worst. Yes, this skill in theory is actually quite good. It is actually two different skills in one. You can recycle, which allows you to either clone some ammo/boosters/drugs. Or synthesize chemicals from various junk. The other part of this skill is Salvaging, which allows you to redeem components from items, such as for instance a broken weapon. Sounds very good, doesn't it? Well, the problem is that when it comes to cloning, the most complex ammo is TL 47 which costs practically nothing. The fact that many implants offer bonuses to the skill also makes it cheaper. And the fact that your average runner doesn't actually need it at above skill level 20 makes this a very useless skill to specilize in for cloning.
Synthesis is the other most useless side of the same coin. True that you can synthesize some useful items, at least for RP, such as Writable Datacubes, but they are TL0 so you don't need ANY skill to make them. You can synthesize various chemicals also, but with the speed it takes (Takes a lot of work to make Solantium for Reeza's sake!) it's simply much cheaper and time efficient to buy the damn chemicals than it is to hunt down for junk and synthesize the chemicals. (Time is money, remember?) The fact that having this skill at higher level is also irrelevant doesn't help things at all. So wether you have recycle at 10 or 130, you will still only make one single tube of solantium with the junk you find and that is if the junk you find is the right junk for the Solantium recipie. Useless eh?
Finally Salvaging is also very useless even though it's slighly better than synthesis. It allows you to redeem junk and bad quality loot you find into things you could then use for construction. Sounds like the best option, you find a bad quality gun, you break it down into parts, give the parts back to constructor with a BP of the gun and he makes you a new one right? Hell no! The parts you get back from items are rarely parts you need to build the gun and even then you only get the worst parts. The quality of the parts (I mean the TL) and the part vs. chemical return is dependent on Recycling skill ofcourse, so with higher skill you get better stuff back from salvaging items, but you still don't get very good parts. ie: You'll still need a lot more additional weapon parts to build that same gun you just salvaged. Added to that the speed of the whole process still doesn't make this profession cost-effective in regards to the time is money axiom. And the fact that this skill, at low TL, fully replaces many other skills doesn't help the game's mechanics either! Before researchers and constructors could make money at least manufacturing drugs and boosters which allowed those constructors and researchers to make some money at low levels. I am also really unhappy about the recycling skill nerf making it impossible for recyclers to make tradeskiller ammo (grease/substance/lube etc) making the skill once again more useless.
If KK wants to make this a pure PvP game with no RP or community aspects, they should just say so. The fact that combat keeps getting everything while tradeskills keep getting nerfed certainly makes this game even worse than before for those of us who think games like Planetside is a waste of money since Quake is much better and is free.
QuantumDelta
19-10-03, 04:54
I very much feel what you're sayin here...
I think tradies should be made more occupying, I can't really say useful...since, "useful" --- without research, no rares, without construction, no useable weapons.
However you're really quite right in what you're saying...
Level 3 armor can be built, can't it?
my PE can get past 200 res ;P
SA/SS/Hawkin/hacking cpu 3, cybereye, adv nerves 3, all drugs cept nightshade, and spy boost 3 ;]
goes 200+ , forgot the exact number
and how to do it w/o nightshade? jus do all the store drugs tahts +int and relog ;] ur imps will b active
dude ?? you have any idea how many belts i often run into that are lying all over the places unhacked ??
if I had had 100 hack or more on my chars when I saw those belts.. I mean "MOMMA !!!!" lots o good stuff for me :) a lot of peeps even high lvlers sometimes carry more than just the undropable weapons and the weapon in locked slot... not to mention armor is not safe, and neither is the stuff in inv...
Always a chance a rare part dropped into qb after death during hunting ^^
I'm pretty sure he meant level 4 armor. Level 3 armor is BPable, level 4 armor is not.
I do agree about this stuff. Tradeskills have gotten too many a nerfage. I'd like to see it such that tradeskills even (*gasp*) give decent xp... enough to cap even (*double gasp*).
--Stryfe
StryfeX i agree. if KK made tradeskilling have better XP. i'd give up all combat skills period. all i would need to work on. would be resists for protection. oh and stealth to hide or run.
General Crazy
19-10-03, 10:24
you forgot the fact that it takes a high lvl researcher about 30 seconds to make a Weapon Part 8 Blueprint and a constructor only 3 seconds to make a Weapon Part 8 and it gets a lot worst as you move up to higher TL items
i agree in most parts of you post Lareolan.
construction is allmost only DRONES HEAL/SHELTER/DEFLECTOR and RARES. and while the quality matters on all this the quality of armor is only important in how long it takes until i have to go to another fire mob to have a new one :D you dont even have to buy it for now ...oh and please KK make a quality on weapon parts that influence the numbers of slots and the end quality.
Pokin is a good skill. i dont think you get not enough money from it. YOU dont need gel and lots of ppl tip from 1000-5000-10000-20000. thats the standarts i often get from pokin. the problem is you can not controll the TL you pokin because the tools dont work. if they do you can easy controll the TL you poke.
repair is another bad thing.it need half skill (bad) to repair an item with a tool that is half the level. high level repaireres are only for rare weapons and on multichar servers they are simply slave alts. hope we getting something more to repair like Turrets and outpost installations or finaly VHC when its not easyer to repair them in ASG for low prize......
recyclin - i like tthat skill. i have a 85+ recycler (i know its stupid). you never get out of anything you need. problem are the TL of the items yeh plasma cannon ammo in its xhead or radioactive for ins under TL40 so cloning 50pcs takes only 2or 3 recycle fluid. you can hunt foreverwith only 5 points of recyclin on allmost every mine out there.
refine you onwn chems from junk is hell. i am a junk collector . i pick up everything on the ground and only sell stuff if i need money. i have one cab full of various chem stachs but not from recyclin but cloning. do you know how hard it is to get big meat for adiclovin? all that monsters drop the useless deseased or rotten meat. PLEASE REMOVE THAT and maybe remove the heal ability from the big meat.
hackin - ok we all hope for more. i like it when i get wood of a ammo box.
barter is cool with 50 points i get 1.5k off on research/construction gel....
nc need a raise of some TL. i remember the times when i could sell psi boosters3 for 600c to clan mates and they are happy about the prize. ppl did mass production on medkids in TG. that is all gone because every APU have 30 recycle and get more boosters and meds from any one star+ mob them he needed. same goes for tanks and the rest of the gang. you dont need the 1.5k from a 2* for you ammo and so its just profit.
Originally posted by Lareolan
* Construction - anyone to make a constructor who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA
Y would a constuctor need a DS???
QuantumDelta
19-10-03, 18:02
Originally posted by Candaman
Y would a constuctor need a DS???
I think the dude meant Hawkins :p
Originally posted by msdong
Pokin is a good skill. i dont think you get not enough money from it. YOU dont need gel and lots of ppl tip from 1000-5000-10000-20000. thats the standarts i often get from pokin. the problem is you can not controll the TL you pokin because the tools dont work. if they do you can easy controll the TL you poke.
I didn't say it wasn't a good skill. But it's a skill of very very very limited use. Like if it had extra applications, such as for example treatment of injuries (if a ppu isn't around) or something else, that could certainly make implant skill a bit more useful.
Originally posted by msdong
repair is another bad thing.it need half skill (bad) to repair an item with a tool that is half the level. high level repaireres are only for rare weapons and on multichar servers they are simply slave alts. hope we getting something more to repair like Turrets and outpost installations or finaly VHC when its not easyer to repair them in ASG for low prize......
Exactly, KK keeps making tradeskillers useless because it's easier to buy stuff from NPCs. I think they should just abolish tradeskills or abolish NPCs. (Like they did in SWG). That way if you have no NPCs, then you have to buy everything from players, that will open up a whole new market! Don't you guys think? (Also, would fix prices since we won't have really expensive things alongside really cheap things because they have to be that way).
Originally posted by msdong
recyclin - i like tthat skill. i have a 85+ recycler (i know its stupid). you never get out of anything you need. problem are the TL of the items yeh plasma cannon ammo in its xhead or radioactive for ins under TL40 so cloning 50pcs takes only 2or 3 recycle fluid. you can hunt foreverwith only 5 points of recyclin on allmost every mine out there.
Heh. Sharon Apple used to have around 130 recycling skill and I was using it for all my construction before I realized that it's simply not cost effective at ALL! It basically a waste of points to put any more than 20 points into this skill as the game is right now.
Originally posted by msdong
hackin - ok we all hope for more. i like it when i get wood of a ammo box.
What about that glass? Or that TL150 recycling/salvage device? :)
Originally posted by msdong
barter is cool with 50 points i get 1.5k off on research/construction gel....
Yes, but there's no motivation to go pure barterer really. The skill is just not good enough for that. I know it's to prevent abuse of the skill, but still, there has to be a way we can have our cake and eat it too.
Originally posted by msdong
nc need a raise of some TL. i remember the times when i could sell psi boosters3 for 600c to clan mates and they are happy about the prize. ppl did mass production on medkids in TG. that is all gone because every APU have 30 recycle and get more boosters and meds from any one star+ mob them he needed. same goes for tanks and the rest of the gang. you dont need the 1.5k from a 2* for you ammo and so its just profit.
That's not a raise in the TL. That's an outright nerf of tradeskillers. I made my first 500k on my first char on Pluto selling medikits and psi 3's! I mean, when you could sell Psi 3's for 1k each and people were happy to pay that price, that was good. Now? No one friggin cares after the total change to the way monks' skills work and the fact that you can easily recycle enough psi 2's or medikits to last you for a week in a matter of 10-15 minutes of casual hunting. That's just wrong!
A tradeskiller love patch is in order I think.
5 star rating from me.
I've no idea how to improve most of these skills, but I've wanted an overhaul of recycling for a long time.
-Krll
Increase the skiller XP gain a tad.
It's weak.
make reqs for things like gloves (i.e. you need X amount of that skill beforehand.) so lil' peons can't bull into the market cuz' they're super 1337 spawn campers.
Originally posted by Marx
Increase the skiller XP gain a tad.
It's weak.
make reqs for things like gloves (i.e. you need X amount of that skill beforehand.) so lil' peons can't bull into the market cuz' they're super 1337 spawn campers.
i dont think its about the XP ..
but you damm right on the gloves. is there non minimum skill on them ??? THAT SUCK.
What about that glass? Or that TL150 recycling/salvage device?
haha the TL 150 salvage is cool i wait for the MC5 chip to put it in there :D
btw. when i say TL raise i mean there should gain more from more skill. and why not able to fail on recycling with even Skill=TL ?
i know KK things about some changes in buying weapons but what about ammo ? i think it dosnt realy matter because everyone usin' rare.
do anyone care if you cant buy a fusion cannon or a Rocket launcher ?
And since hacknet was never made, that means pure hacker characters are useless
Belt recovery services. Already been done by at least one character. Higher hack also means faster/easier door hacks and enables ninja-hacking of Warbot kills (not that I condone that sort of action).
Nearly every patch removes an item that was previously constructable.
Like what? The only things made unbuildable were things that weren't supposed to be buildable in the first place. One of the advanced/regular bone implants were swapped, so they fixed that. Vehicle 2 is now researchable/buildable. SCE4 wasn't supposed to be buildable. All the level 3 eyes are buildable. Level 3 Reflex and Experimental Reflex are buildable. Copbot rifles weren't supposed to be buildable. PA and Level 4 armor aren't supposed to be buildable.
Beyond corrections, what has KK made unbuildable that was buildable before?
Added to that the recent improvements to the construction implants and the addition of the machina gloves make it possible for anyone to make a constructor who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA in a matter of 1 dayHow? They're +15 to their respective subskill, +5 to their base stat, and have INT/DEX requirements. 60 INT to use the Constructior machina glove. Yeah, +15 is nice, but if you haven't noticed the Construction CPUs were also upgraded to 5/10/15 construction and the Advanced Nerves were upgraded to 5/10/15 research. This makes it easier to be a tradeskiller and still have combat skills. My Spy now can get up to 147 construction (base 117) and 132 research (base 88) before lab bonus. That means more points for Weapon Lore and yet still be able to Research and Build all items in the game. Sure I'll fail, but I'll fall a lot less often then when I was 132/117. More hybrid setups like this are a GOOD thing. There are so few who can do these two things as it is.
Implant - Due to the way this skill works, there is no way to guarantee that you will get paid for your services
So request a fee up front? I pay well for my pokes - 2k for a single low-level (sub TL40) poke up to 20k for a set of higher level imps, like my SS, SF, RC3 and Adv Nerves 3. If people aren't paying well for poking, then don't poke them...
Added to that the fact that the skill itself has very limited use: All you can do is "poke" implants into people.
Um, yeah... you realize the entire game's upper levels virtually require the boost that implants provide, right? Without imps, my character is useless. I pay well for implantation because I require/rely on my implants to function.
even though implants are important, it doesn't really justify putting 110 points into an INT skill if you get nothing out of it and have VERY limited use compared to other tradeskills.
I'll break this down again since people seem to forget...
+5 implant from SS
+5 implant from Hawking
+15 implant from glove
+4 to +16 from Spy Boost
If you're a decked out Spy with Hawking, SS, a PPU friend, and a glove, you need a mere 74 implant skill (98 trainpoints) to implant TL115. If you're less decked out and without PPU friends, like I am, you need a mere 60 implant skill (70 trainpoints) to implant 84. You need nowhere near 110 implant skill (111 if you're counting the Spy Boost 1 to add +4). If I wanted to be a TL84 implanter, I could probably do it as I've got another five INT levels before I cap and I can syphon off two const levels and a research level for the final 13 points I'd need, provided I don't want to increase my Weapon Lore.
Repair - Once again, highly nerfed skill since you only need half the points in a skill to repair items of a certain TL
That gets you roughly 80% condition increase and lowers max condition by 3 to 5%. Maxed out repairers, I believe, drop 1% condition and completely repair an item in one pass. It's a big difference if your imps and weapons are being worn down fast. Mine aren't so I can afford the decreased condition and decreased repair percentage.
but with the speed at which items degrade in this game: Weapons/implants need repairs very rarely.
They do? I can easily wear out my Tangent Epic rifle in one evening. If I didn't have repair skill, I'd be using a repairer every day. And last I heard, MC5 CPUs lost a huge chunk of their condition every time they fell out, meaning a 5% condition loss is a BIG DEAL to an MC5 user.
((Because they have such ridiculously useless skill, obviously no one wants to play them. So when the skill is needed, you can never find someone who has it.)Funny, the past few times I've been in PL1, there's been a repairer around...
Barter - Still useful, but because so few items need to be bought and not built, this profession is also really pathetic.
I bulk buy Big Packs of Research and Construction substances from barterers. We're talking 50 to 100 units of each at a time. And if you think barterers aren't necessary, then you don't know what happens to those Vehicle Component 10's. They have a very nice cottage industry going, between sales of loot, sales of weapon duds from slot runs, sales of apt keys, and sales of built vehicle keys...
Before researchers and constructors could make money at least manufacturing drugs and boosters which allowed those constructors and researchers to make some money at low levels.
You can still undercut recyclers on booster prices. It's faster to batch-build Psi Booster 3's from chems bought at Crytons' than it is to salvage them.
Cloning extends ones stay in the wastes. The game is combat oriented. Without cloning, players would still be strongly tethered to GGs. Now, they're not nearly as limited. It's a big boost for hunting, which is still the way to gain XP.
I am also really unhappy about the recycling skill nerf making it impossible for recyclers to make tradeskiller ammo (grease/substance/lube etc) making the skill once again more useless.
This bothers me to an extent, but instead of substances I make boosters, which I sell for 125k per 249 count stack, then turn around and use that money to fund my substance purchases through a barterer, which allows me to make keys that I then turn around and sell through the same barterer...
Salvage is somewhat less useful, I agree. Now, if it could recover a few rareparts from a wrecked rare, that would be useful - 2 or 3 rares from a 5 or 6 part rare weapon would be nice.
Tradeskillers got a nice boost with the gloves. Hopefully, between the Construction CPU and Advanced Nerves change, the gloves, and the variable op bonus system, more people will opt to include a tradeskill in thier character creation. More tradeskillers is a good thing, but those who are tradeskill-only should recognize that the game's about combat. You can't level on tradeskills alone.
You can't level on tradeskills alone
Yeah, but the game description makes promise of non-combatant ways to level your character, which technically it has; but it's severly lacking.
The world is not supposed to be full of gun crazy people, but it is. Tradeskillers have to live with it, but it doesn't change the fact that pure tradeskillers are not rewarded for their chosen profession - which they should be.
In response to the 'HWAR HAWR, TEY GET TEH TIPS' comments that this is sure to spawn - Pure skillers, especially on pluto; cannot go it alone. Lubricants and gels cost, most peoples tips don't even cover the amount of lube used - hell, especially when I ID parts for people geez.
Hypothetically I could set a standard fee, in which case I would lose customers who fear teh numbers and w3rds, and instead will go to the lower skill researcher who says 'for tips' or makes no mention of payment. Of course I would get a core following of people who rely, which I do now - but by no means am I rich.
Leo Frankowski the pure skiller stays steady at around 150k.
Marx teh pistol PE averages 2 million.
That's fucking pathetic. Any person who says otherwise is either naive or has not felt this pain.
Had it not been for my second account - I would've deleted Leo, or LoM'd back to rifles... In which case Pluto would be down another uber skiller.
Originally posted by Lareolan
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that tradeskills are getting nerfed every 3-4 patches? I mean the only good thing they did for tradeskillers was the introduction of automatically pulling in all parts from inventory to processor for constructors. So all a constructor needs to do is have all the parts, put the BP into the processor and click "start". But other than that, let's see...
* Hacking - Nerfed to prevent ninja-hackers, you now need 3 hackers to hack an OP. All other uses for a hacker are non-existent. (You only need 50 HCK to hack most things other than that, such as WBs. And since hacknet was never made, that means pure hacker characters are useless.) YAY...
* Construction - Nearly every patch removes an item that was previously constructable. Bones, implants, etc... Level 3 (4 in case of smart cyber-eye), level 3 armor, PAs etc cannot be built, but can be bought at 120% quality from vendoor (And quality doesn't make any difference at all to the item itself either. So bad armor protects just as well as REALLY REALLY good armor). So the only use for constructors is building weapons and rares. Added to that the recent improvements to the construction implants and the addition of the machina gloves make it possible for anyone to make a constructor who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA in a matter of 1 day (And the new one doesn't need any of those brain implants and will still be able to build everything at max quality with highest probability of slots).
* Research - Same as Construction, since the two are linked. Since you cannot research those items, you also cannot build them. The fact that research queues cannot be set up (And in fact discouraged. hence the jumping processor window that all researchers have come to know and loathe). So the only use for researchers is researching weapons and rare techs. Added to that the recent improvements to the research backbone and the addition of the machina gloves make it possible for anyone to make a researcher who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA in a matter of 1 day (And the new one doesn't need any of those brain implants and will still be able to research TL122 drones and TL110 rares).
* Barter - Still useful, but because so few items need to be bought and not built, this profession is also really pathetic. The lack of any implants that would increase this skill and the fact that in order to be any good you need to have it REALLY high doesn't help things either. (Since at lower levels this skill doesn't make much of a difference at all).
* Implant - Due to the way this skill works, there is no way to guarantee that you will get paid for your services. Too many lame cheapskates in this game who will go out, kill people, waste money and not actually do some work to get money. Hence they are always poor simply because they don't want to spend the time. But they still want services. So they never pay when they have the option to (Or pay very little if they are forced to like with other skills). Added to that the fact that the skill itself has very limited use: All you can do is "poke" implants into people. It doesn't allow you to do anything else, and even though implants are important, it doesn't really justify putting 110 points into an INT skill if you get nothing out of it and have VERY limited use compared to other tradeskills.
* Repair - Once again, highly nerfed skill since you only need half the points in a skill to repair items of a certain TL. The addition of many implants to give plenty of points to this skill (VHC3 - 15 points = 30 TL) make this tradeskill possible for pretty much anyone to have and removes the need for actual repairers. Now, it's true that the better someone's skill is, the better their repairs will be, but with the speed at which items degrade in this game: Weapons/implants need repairs very rarely. In most cases you'll get new ones before you break the old ones. And as for armor, it breaks fast, but in most cases it's easier to just buy new armor from store than find a repairer. (Because they have such ridiculously useless skill, obviously no one wants to play them. So when the skill is needed, you can never find someone who has it.)
* Recycle - Finally, the worst of the worst. Yes, this skill in theory is actually quite good. It is actually two different skills in one. You can recycle, which allows you to either clone some ammo/boosters/drugs. Or synthesize chemicals from various junk. The other part of this skill is Salvaging, which allows you to redeem components from items, such as for instance a broken weapon. Sounds very good, doesn't it? Well, the problem is that when it comes to cloning, the most complex ammo is TL 47 which costs practically nothing. The fact that many implants offer bonuses to the skill also makes it cheaper. And the fact that your average runner doesn't actually need it at above skill level 20 makes this a very useless skill to specilize in for cloning.
Synthesis is the other most useless side of the same coin. True that you can synthesize some useful items, at least for RP, such as Writable Datacubes, but they are TL0 so you don't need ANY skill to make them. You can synthesize various chemicals also, but with the speed it takes (Takes a lot of work to make Solantium for Reeza's sake!) it's simply much cheaper and time efficient to buy the damn chemicals than it is to hunt down for junk and synthesize the chemicals. (Time is money, remember?) The fact that having this skill at higher level is also irrelevant doesn't help things at all. So wether you have recycle at 10 or 130, you will still only make one single tube of solantium with the junk you find and that is if the junk you find is the right junk for the Solantium recipie. Useless eh?
Finally Salvaging is also very useless even though it's slighly better than synthesis. It allows you to redeem junk and bad quality loot you find into things you could then use for construction. Sounds like the best option, you find a bad quality gun, you break it down into parts, give the parts back to constructor with a BP of the gun and he makes you a new one right? Hell no! The parts you get back from items are rarely parts you need to build the gun and even then you only get the worst parts. The quality of the parts (I mean the TL) and the part vs. chemical return is dependent on Recycling skill ofcourse, so with higher skill you get better stuff back from salvaging items, but you still don't get very good parts. ie: You'll still need a lot more additional weapon parts to build that same gun you just salvaged. Added to that the speed of the whole process still doesn't make this profession cost-effective in regards to the time is money axiom. And the fact that this skill, at low TL, fully replaces many other skills doesn't help the game's mechanics either! Before researchers and constructors could make money at least manufacturing drugs and boosters which allowed those constructors and researchers to make some money at low levels. I am also really unhappy about the recycling skill nerf making it impossible for recyclers to make tradeskiller ammo (grease/substance/lube etc) making the skill once again more useless.
If KK wants to make this a pure PvP game with no RP or community aspects, they should just say so. The fact that combat keeps getting everything while tradeskills keep getting nerfed certainly makes this game even worse than before for those of us who think games like Planetside is a waste of money since Quake is much better and is free.
er i do agree with some of this, but a few points Recycle saves you a fortune try buys 500 packs of x heat plasma cannon ammo without barter, you save quite a bit, so it is far from usless, altho recycling needs to actually produce parts not chems imo
and yeah as we all know a spy with 100 dex and 100 int and 110- 130 cst can do the same thing as one with 200 +cst, I think that cst should mean something with specialization but the must.. MUST be room for those ppl who fight a reasonably and tradeskill it must not become in any skill that your usless without mega specilization, that will kill a lot of char imo
Yeah, but the game description makes promise of non-combatant ways to level your character, which technically it has; but it's severly lacking.
It's not lacking. Leveling on tradeskills alone will get you to the mid 30's without much effort. The mid 40's with a bit more time. After that, raise your mainstats with combat.
You can, in theory, level everything directly/indirectly through tradeskills, but it's boring, repetative, and not as much fun as killing Warbots. :-)
Lubricants and gels cost, most peoples tips don't even cover the amount of lube used - hell, especially when I ID parts for people geez.
I did 22 rares yesterday for another player (10 E, 6 T, 6 L). I used about 5 packs of substance - packs I pay 5k for (including tip) because I use a barterer. I was paid 50k for my services. Not bad.
That's fucking pathetic. Any person who says otherwise is either naive or has not felt this pain.
The naivete is in thinking you can play this game without being a combatant. NC is simply not designed towards this end. The sooner you realize it, the better.
I have 15 million NC on Pluto (12 mil is mine, 3 is a friend's), 20 apartments filled with "stuff", BPs for a hefty chunk of the buildable items in the game, stacks of parts from loot, and almost every level 3 implant and multiple rare CPUs (minus MC5 chips). I've been playing since Pluto was launched. It _is_ possible to accumulate wealth on your own (I've an LE, no clan, no "supply lines", and no "rarepart deals"). It takes time. It takes patience. It takes restraint. I don't buy every rarepart I need for 500k (most I've paid is 750k for a glove part). I don't buy weapon/imp/mod/ammo/armor parts - I build all of them. I don't pay full price for many items, if any. I wait for a barterer if I need an expensive item (like a construction tool or an apartment). I think before I GR at 4k a pop.
Combat, sales of implants built from loot, sales of rareparts, sales of BPs, sales of keys built from loot, sales of psi boosters built from loot - I do all this in addtion to research and construction. It really, really adds up. Just sitting in Plaza 1 tradeskilling doesn't do it. Go out there. Choose a lucrative mob and specialize in killing it. Use the earnings and loot to finance purchase of other items you need. Find a good barterer or barterers (120+) and stick with them. Wait for their appearance before you go off and buy that apartment key at full price.
Work smarter, not harder. Be a cheap bastard. You're a tradeskiller at heart, so act it!
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I think the dude meant Hawkins :p
Actually I did mean Hawkins, but considering that monks could also be tradies and the fact that DS does give +5 to int still makes it a viable tradeskiller chip. :P
(There, that's some good backpeddling)
Edit:
@ IceStorm: You missed the whole point of everything I said and I don't feel like elaborating on all those points right now. If you wish to discuss that further, feel free to PM me.
Quote:
_______________________________________
* Research - Same as Construction, since the two are linked. Since you cannot research those items, you also cannot build them. The fact that research queues cannot be set up (And in fact discouraged. hence the jumping processor window that all researchers have come to know and loathe). So the only use for researchers is researching weapons and rare techs. Added to that the recent improvements to the research backbone and the addition of the machina gloves make it possible for anyone to make a researcher who can compete with a fully capped, fully specialized constructor who has DS/SS/SF/SA in a matter of 1 day (And the new one doesn't need any of those brain implants and will still be able to research TL122 drones and TL110 rares).
_________________________________________
I do not agree with that. Have you ever even tried research, there is no way, absolutely no way that a resser can cap in one day, NONE
Also it takes a reall lot of points and time to be able to res TL110 rares, apparently you need skills of double, i.e. 220
You will stand for weeks ressing no end before you have that
- and can't fall asleep whilst doing it, I know i fall aslees in between - because of the jumping box
Ghandisfury, I have seen your posts in the past, agree with me here pls
@ IceStorm: You missed the whole point of everything I said and I don't feel like elaborating on all those points right now. If you wish to discuss that further, feel free to PM me.
I didn't miss the point. The problem is your point of view does not mesh with the overall layout of NC. You're missing the part where players come to understand that NC's leveling/moneymaking system is driven not by tradeskills, but by combat. Towards that end, it behooves every char to have a combat specialization. The uber chars that dump ALL their points into one tradeksill are usually played by people with alts with which they can vent their bench-sitting frustrations, or by people who have been there, done that, and like to warm benches (LoMing is a wonderful thing, isn't it?).
If anything, tradeskills have been BOOSTED over time. No longer does construction quality move on an ever-sliding scale. No longer do you HAVE to be in a clan to get part of an op bonus. No longer do you have to burn every point on a tradeskill subskill to make money from it. No longer do you have to be totally gimped in combat to excel at a single tradeskill.
Your custom user text says you've a Cancelled Account. Apparently, NC's not the game for you. Good luck on your next MMO.
Originally posted by IceStorm
You can, in theory, level everything directly/indirectly through tradeskills, but it's boring, repetative, and not as much fun as killing Warbots. :-)
So pure tradeskillers are not welcome? I MUST be an uber gun user and go kill things otherwise I cannot level? That only increases the trend people have of making combat chars just so they could level them fast and then switch to a tradeskill. All my tradeskill chars (And I had 4 of them) were tradeskillers from the very beginning and were pathetic in combat that they couldn't even down a WB when they were /60 on their own. Is this game designed so you cannot play that character? That's a major limitation on a "world where you can be anything" which is what MMOGs are all about.
Originally posted by IceStorm
I did 22 rares yesterday for another player (10 E, 6 T, 6 L). I used about 5 packs of substance - packs I pay 5k for (including tip) because I use a barterer. I was paid 50k for my services. Not bad.
Let's calculate:
5 packs x 5k each pack = 25k
Tip of 50k - 25k used in substance = 25k for the actual work.
Further:
6Ls = 6x15 seconds (or so), not a big deal = 1.5 min
6Ts = 6x40 seconds (or so), still not too bad = 4 min
6Es = 6x2 mins (pr thereabouts), pretty harsh = 12 min
Total time wasted: 17.5 minutes not counting swapping the parts in and out of processor.
So basically you got payed 25k for let's round it up, 18 solid minutes of your time. This was a single order, if orders like this were flowing, that wouldn't be a problem, but odds are after that order you got no work (or any work you were paid for decently anyway) for about 2 hours... So that makes it 25k in over 2 hours of gametime.... Now that's starting to add up now... (I think you totally got ripped in that deal).
Now, the same person who gave you those techs, can go out for those 18 minutes and make another 100k (minimum) simply from killing things and collecting loot (on average). AND had you DARED to get any of his techs destroyed odds are you would have gotten one or more of the following:
A) *BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP* asshole *BEEP* KOS *BEEP* (*BEEP*s being edited cursewords, actually happened to my researcher many times when she was low level regardless of my warning and words of caution before any job I could possibly mess up).
B) You getting much lower or no tip (since you destroyed that oh-so-important TP of slotenhancer v0.9 or some other most likely useless rare)
C) "Yeah, I know happens. I'm just not lucky. Oh well you tried your best" (I got that ONCE! Yes, in my whole career of dedicated researching for over 5 months I got this last one ONCE! A & B I got more times than I care to mention).
By the way, same rules apply for construction. How dares Sharon Apple make me only a 2 slot CS? I mean that's *BEEP* worthless, I'm gonna have to toss it in the cab with the rest of my 4 or less slot CS'es. I mean I only have 5 5-slot ones! Or something to that effect anyway. I mean, most people would be happy with a 1 slot as long as the stats are good, but some people would bitch at good stat 2-3 slotted rares! I mean what the hell do they want? Do they want me to somehow hack the game and make it so all my weapon builds come out full artifact and with 5-slots in every single one?!
Originally posted by IceStorm
The naivete is in thinking you can play this game without being a combatant. NC is simply not designed towards this end. The sooner you realize it, the better.
As I said. This game was advertised as an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS. If it were marketed as an MMOFPS, I would have never wasted a single cent on this game. End of story. I like social roleplaying, I like tradeskills. I'm the guy who always plays the Armorsmithing dwarven priest in D&D games. Or perhaps a fletching elven sorcerrer, or a potion brewing illusionist gnome. I try to stay away from combat, I don't like it. I mean, I like Quake and deathmatches, but I still preffer games like CTF (such as WFA or TF). And I would never pay monthly to play those games. NC does not offer anything close to what a normal FPS offers. And yet it keeps offering less and less in terms of tradeskills also due to no loving given to pure tradeskillers and all the love given to combat chars. (I mean, wow. Now your monk can poke MC5 chips with the glove and still have more than enough int to put into 50 hack for WBs and lots left over for PSU).
Originally posted by IceStorm
I have 15 million NC on Pluto (12 mil is mine, 3 is a friend's), 20 apartments filled with "stuff", BPs for a hefty chunk of the buildable items in the game, stacks of parts from loot, and almost every level 3 implant and multiple rare CPUs (minus MC5 chips). I've been playing since Pluto was launched. It _is_ possible to accumulate wealth on your own (I've an LE, no clan, no "supply lines", and no "rarepart deals"). It takes time. It takes patience. It takes restraint. I don't buy every rarepart I need for 500k (most I've paid is 750k for a glove part). I don't buy weapon/imp/mod/ammo/armor parts - I build all of them. I don't pay full price for many items, if any. I wait for a barterer if I need an expensive item (like a construction tool or an apartment). I think before I GR at 4k a pop.
I did the same on Uranus, though I cheated since I made a small one person clan: "Apple Technologies inc" that had both my researcher and constructor in it.
I had a heck of a lot more cash than that in a lot less time. I'm not saying it's impossible to make money. I'm just saying that it's very hard and very lonely since the ONLY way to make money (I mean real money) is by dealing with barterers and NPCs. If you want to roleplay, if you want to deal with other players... Heck, if you want to showcase your skills in public (like in Plaza 1), then you cannot make any money, nor can you level and all you get is frustration. And why is that? It's because tradeskills simply aren't good. They are only useful, they aren't important, essential or *gasp*, dare I say, "critical" to the game?
Everything you said I have done, being smart with your money is a part of being rich. You can ask QD about that, he always complained about how I could be so rich and yet (as far as he could tell) spend like crazy, while he was always poor :)
But regardless, that doesn't make the game fun. If all I do is work and sell to NPCs for money (Because sadly NPCs pay more than players), then why not play an offline game? Just as much "interaction" with other players and no monthly charge (once again).
Originally posted by IceStorm
Combat, sales of implants built from loot, sales of rareparts, sales of BPs, sales of keys built from loot, sales of psi boosters built from loot - I do all this in addtion to research and construction. It really, really adds up. Just sitting in Plaza 1 tradeskilling doesn't do it. Go out there. Choose a lucrative mob and specialize in killing it. Use the earnings and loot to finance purchase of other items you need. Find a good barterer or barterers (120+) and stick with them. Wait for their appearance before you go off and buy that apartment key at full price.
Work smarter, not harder. Be a cheap bastard. You're a tradeskiller at heart, so act it!
*sigh* As I said, you completely missed the point. I'm not saying it's not possible to play a tradeskiller. I'm saying there is no reward for being a tradeskiller. You can make money, but only off NPCs! You cannot really go out and hunt unless you sacrifice your skills, and if you don't want to go out and hunt you can't improve your skills! That is just not right. Please don't tell me how to be a cheap bastard (or bitch), I know how to be one while still paying people decently for their work, I've done so on many many many occasions. Ask anyone on Uranus who still remembers me (I mean, I left a whole month ago, so odds are all those people have forgotten me or also left by now). What you should be telling me is how to make the tradeskills system more fun, more rewarding and more important to the gameplay!
Originally posted by Sharkey
Quote:
I do not agree with that. Have you ever even tried research, there is no way, absolutely no way that a resser can cap in one day, NONE
Also it takes a reall lot of points and time to be able to res TL110 rares, apparently you need skills of double, i.e. 220
You will stand for weeks ressing no end before you have that
- and can't fall asleep whilst doing it, I know i fall aslees in between - because of the jumping box
Ghandisfury, I have seen your posts in the past, agree with me here pls
You misunderstood me. When I said completely capped I meant the skill. Sure there's room for improvement, but if you have access to an SS, Advanced Nerves 3 and some other +INT implants and the researcher glove (Which is not hard to do, especially on a multi-char server) you can easily make a researcher who can reliably research TL110 rares and TL122 drones (the highest TL item in the game to my knowledge) in a single day. Yes, I've done that before as a test, it's not all that hard. You don't even need a full day, only like 12 solid hours or so. Even less if you're not going solo. (Which I did). And that was before the last patch increased all the tradeskill implant bonuses AND the gloves came out.
Originally posted by IceStorm
I didn't miss the point. The problem is your point of view does not mesh with the overall layout of NC. You're missing the part where players come to understand that NC's leveling/moneymaking system is driven not by tradeskills, but by combat. Towards that end, it behooves every char to have a combat specialization. The uber chars that dump ALL their points into one tradeksill are usually played by people with alts with which they can vent their bench-sitting frustrations, or by people who have been there, done that, and like to warm benches (LoMing is a wonderful thing, isn't it?).
My first char ever was a pure tradeskiller on Pluto and he remained that for most of his career until I got tired of never being able to do any business and never getting anywhere (due to community as much as the game's mechanics).
Originally posted by IceStorm
If anything, tradeskills have been BOOSTED over time. No longer does construction quality move on an ever-sliding scale. No longer do you HAVE to be in a clan to get part of an op bonus. No longer do you have to burn every point on a tradeskill subskill to make money from it. No longer do you have to be totally gimped in combat to excel at a single tradeskill.
That is not a boost for tradeskillers, that's a boost to combat chars. Now they can pick up an additional tradeskill freely and be decent at it (What with the new implants, rares and OP rules. GEE. That's not a tradeskill boost, that's a PvP'er boost and a nerf for tradeskills). I mean, have you EVER played any cyberpunk RPG? Like Cyberpunk 2020 for instance? Sure you have combat chars, but they rely heavy on the tradeskill chars, hackers, doctors, heck, news reporters and musicians even! Those are ALL classes and they ALL exist within a cyberpunk world. I mean, why can't we play one of those strippers in PP? Why can't we have PPUs? (For all those people screaming to nerf/kill the "unkillable" PPUs). If anyone here has ever played any tabletop, pencil and paper RPG, they will know what I am talking about since ALL RPGs have their non-combat but highly useful character classes. And you may notice that I am ignoring the PvP (Quake) community here, they get what they deserve, sure, the cyberpunk game SHOULD have combat, it's part of the style and the atmosphere, but where's the other side of the coin?
Originally posted by IceStorm
Your custom user text says you've a Cancelled Account. Apparently, NC's not the game for you. Good luck on your next MMO.
So you're saying I should just leave and let this game rot? I cancelled my account because I became just far too annoyed with KK's policies, tactics, lack of support, content, events and the generally shitty atmosphere and attitude of the players (mostly stemming from having nothing to do). That doesn't mean I don't want to get back. I have ALWAYS loved cyberpunk and until FoMK comes out and proves to be the superior MMO (It looks damn good on paper, but until I see it perform I remain skeptical), I still want to be able to return to this game. But I cannot do it in the game's current state. So please don't tell me to "go away and shut up" in not so many words. I'm trying to make a point and to make the game better. Does the fact that I am not paying KK any money right now mean that my opinions and ideas are no longer valid somehow? That's just a very rude attitude on your part.
What bugs me the most about tradeskills is that most of them are int based. Since most of them require alot of points to be put into the skill, you can only pick up one tradeskill aside from repair.
I think some of these tradeskills should be moved to dex instead of int. Poking for instance, IMO it makes much more sence for that skill to be dex based.
So you're saying I should just leave and let this game rot? I cancelled my account because I became just far too annoyed with KK's policies, tactics, lack of support, content, events and the generally shitty atmosphere and attitude of the players (mostly stemming from having nothing to do).
You might want to check out this announcement:
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79086
-Krll
Originally posted by pix
What bugs me the most about tradeskills is that most of them are int based. Since most of them require alot of points to be put into the skill, you can only pick up one tradeskill aside from repair.
I think some of these tradeskills should be moved to dex instead of int. Poking for instance, IMO it makes much more sence for that skill to be dex based.
INT based: Research, Barter
DEX based: Recycle, Repair
Both: Construct, Implant
Checked against http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477
That's 2 in each category. I guess you could possibly include hack as a tradeskill, but I don't think it is, atleast at the current time. You could also possibly include vehicle skill in the both category (vehicles require INT to drive).
If poking was moved to DEX that would piss off a lot of monks who poke and most likely decrease the number of pokers (who are essential to neocron) about.
Athon Solo
Originally posted by IceStorm
[B]It's not lacking. Leveling on tradeskills alone will get you to the mid 30's without much effort. The mid 40's with a bit more time. After that, raise your mainstats with combat. [b]
Oh, but what combat skills will the person use if they're a pure skiller?
:rolleyes:
I did 22 rares yesterday for another player (10 E, 6 T, 6 L). I used about 5 packs of substance - packs I pay 5k for (including tip) because I use a barterer. I was paid 50k for my services. Not bad.
Thats great, how many good barters do you know on Pluto? I know of 3 and they haven't been online in the longest. Hence why I said it's impossible to go it alone.
NC is simply not designed towards this end. The sooner you realize it, the better.
Um - point out where I said I do not realize it... I do realize it and say it goes against the entire advertising schtick.
I have 15 million NC on Pluto (12 mil is mine, 3 is a friend's), 20 apartments filled with "stuff", BPs for a hefty chunk of the buildable items in the game, stacks of parts from loot, and almost every level 3 implant and multiple rare CPUs (minus MC5 chips). I've been playing since Pluto was launched. It _is_ possible to accumulate wealth on your own (I've an LE, no clan, no "supply lines", and no "rarepart deals"). It takes time. It takes patience. It takes restraint. I don't buy every rarepart I need for 500k (most I've paid is 750k for a glove part). I don't buy weapon/imp/mod/ammo/armor parts - I build all of them. I don't pay full price for many items, if any. I wait for a barterer if I need an expensive item (like a construction tool or an apartment). I think before I GR at 4k a pop.
Yay, and you got all that from being a pure skiller? No.
Go out there. Choose a lucrative mob and specialize in killing it.
No, I don't like specialization - Specialization is the reason things are the way they are now, whats needed is less; not more.
Work smarter, not harder. Be a cheap bastard. You're a tradeskiller at heart, so act it!
You're saying nothing new here dude. You're simply pointing out the points I made.
1.) Its not what you do - it's who you know.
2.) There is no non-combatant way to play, even though there was promised to be.
Originally posted by Lareolan
.....That is not a boost for tradeskillers, that's a boost to combat chars. Now they can pick up an additional tradeskill freely and be decent at it (What with the new implants, rares and OP rules. GEE. That's not a tradeskill boost, that's a PvP'er boost and a nerf for tradeskills).....
woo, you are right. anyone can do everything now without any basic knowlege in a skill. PPU are uber constructors if their clan own a op (for parts and VHC).
wirh the glove you can ress rares ... or all the qubes for their 100 holy heal production series.
now look at the other side.
you done a pure trade with some recyclin or whatever. the only attribut you dont have any important skills in is strength. so u do close combat or H-C. ahh are u able to kill anything in an fort area ? NO
you are not able to level any "secondary" stats with things you have no skill in.
another example:
a tradeskiller is killed in an combat enviroment because he is not skilled to survife in that enviroment.
a combat char simply goes to a lab start usin complex anylysis tools handles explosives or radioactive material to construct ammo or simply go to a mine and use hightech refining skills.
there is no place for TRADESKILLERS ONLY
there should be a minimum skill required to use a factory/lab/whatever.
q
there should be a minimum skill required to use a factory/lab/whatever.
I think certain items (i.e. Gloves) need a minimum skill.
:D
Originally posted by Marx
I think certain items (i.e. Gloves) need a minimum skill.
:D
of course they need.
there needs to be stuff that reqires HIGH level SKILL and a FAB.
something all ppl need. if there is noone there to produce it it is hidden inside the game. if there are some ppl out there using the stuff others will think about having an alt tradeskiller of maybe if there is enough to do go pure on his main char.
i would love to let go all R-C if im the only one in TG able to repair the "guardian artillery".
there is no problem for havin' 100 implant if you NEED a glove to implant MC5 chips.
the problem in NC is that all ppl want everything easy to use. nothin is hard to get or to build or imlant.
lol i like to see the discussion thread if RARE construction requires 200 construct and a FAB no matter the TL of the item. if research requires BASE the TL on skill and if there are TL200+ implants
slaughteruall
20-10-03, 17:20
Yes trade skillers need some major tweekage. I have a Tl 193 resser who also is TL 173 (346) repper (not sure on my repp lvl it's around there tho). It takes for ever to do Bp's of anything over TL 40 or so it's rediculous. Dont even mention TL 110 rares those things take for ever even boosted and at a lab. It's so bad i've thought about rerolling that alt so many times. But i like being able to ress my own rares which is why i made him. I did a few basic shelter BP's for someone yesterday and it was so sad how slow it went even at my TL and yes fix the damn XP gain for trade skillers it is impossible to cap or even get close to cap by just doing a trade skill.
Originally posted by Krll
You might want to check out this announcement:
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79086
-Krll
If you don't have a point, please don't spam the thread with useless posts. Yes, I read that, so what?
Originally posted by Marx
I think certain items (i.e. Gloves) need a minimum skill.
:D
That still won't fix the main problem, the fact that PvP characters get even more versatile while even more tradeskillers are re-rolled/LoM'd to PvP characters or relegated to mule status. I mean, it's just too damn easy to make a good tradeskiller now, requires almost no work, no effort:
Glove: +15 CST (Does it give +5 int?)
SS: +10 CST (+5 int)
CST3: +15 CST (+5 int)
Advanced Nerves 3: (+5 int)
Neural-Advancement 3: (+5 int)
Hacking CPU 3: (+5 int)
So, you drug up into SS so it will activate it's +5 int and holds itself in place, so you only need 59 natural intelligence! 59! You can make that up in a single day no problem! And with that 59 points you get: 62 CST at level 5 int (When you start), 59-5 = 54 levels. 54x5 = 270 points.
75 - 62 = 13x2 = 26 points spent (244 left)
100-75 = 25x3 = 75 points spent (169 left)
169/5 = 33 more CST points with 4 left over for whatever.
So at the end of that you end up 133 CST NATURAL. Now add to that all the bonuses you get from your implants: 133+15+10+15 = 173 CST! (And notice I didn't even bother with CST2, +10 CST because that would mean you'd need 2 more int levels, so a little longer to level).
So now with 173 CST and 84 int, even if your dex is only 50 at the time, you can still build pretty damn well... But wait, it gets better! Get a friendly PPU to cast CST3 on you (That's sure hard with all them dead hybrids having gone PPU now), so that's another +20 CST, so 173+20 = 193 CST.
But wait, even if you don't belong to a clan that owns OPs, odds are you can at least find ONE OP that belongs to an ally or a neutral faction! So odds are you can at the very least find a factory that would give you +25 to CST! So 193+25 = 218 CST! Great, in a single day (More like 8-12 hours of play and that's if you go alone without a PPU in your pocket) you can create a constructor that can do rares just as well as a constructor who spent 2-3 months leveling up before (my constructor) to get to the same point! Like seriously, does this not strike you as a severe nerf of true tradeskillers who dedicated months (MONTHS!) to be really good at their chosen profession.
I think that's just wrong. It's killing tradeskills.
Originally posted by Lareolan
If you don't have a point, please don't spam the thread with useless posts. Yes, I read that, so what?
I was trying to be helpful to you. The point I was trying to make was that admitting you've cancelled your account is now liable to get you "de-registered" so you can't post your opinions anymore. I thought you might have wanted to know.
Since you already knew, and decided to over-react to my post, then up yours. :)
P.S. If you think I'm spamming, use that handy little "report this post to a moderator" button on each message, and I'll get dealt with by the mods.
-Krll
Originally posted by naimex
Always a chance a rare part dropped into qb after death during hunting ^^
Have you ever seen a techpart in a belt? Not me. And i hacked alot of belts :)
Xaru
That still won't fix the main problem, the fact that PvP characters get even more versatile while even more tradeskillers are re-rolled/LoM'd to PvP characters or relegated to mule status.
That's not a problem, that's the way NC's been moving for the past two years. If anything, it's a design goal of KK's, hence my comment regarding NC not being the game for you...
Originally posted by IceStorm
That's not a problem, that's the way NC's been moving for the past two years. If anything, it's a design goal of KK's, hence my comment regarding NC not being the game for you...
IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FUCKING POINT THAT NEOCRON PROMISES NONCOMBATIVE WAYS TO BUILD YOUR CHARACTER; A PROMISE THAT IS COMPARITIVELY LACKING BASED ON SKILLER XP.
Originally posted by Marx
IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FUCKING POINT THAT NEOCRON PROMISES NONCOMBATIVE WAYS TO BUILD YOUR CHARACTER; A PROMISE THAT IS COMPARITIVELY LACKING BASED ON SKILLER XP.
I think we're beating a dead horse here Marx, no one left in the community but Quakers now who don't care about anything but being "uber" super killers. :(
IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FUCKING POINT THAT NEOCRON PROMISES NONCOMBATIVE WAYS TO BUILD YOUR CHARACTER;
First, you can level off tradeskills fairly well at lower levels, without fear of being ganked by others.
Second, you can level off them at mid and high levels, but it'll take ages. I should know - I spend a large part of my time researching and building. I could spend far more time knocking down Warbots, but I don't mind leveling at a slow pace (I've never capped a character).
no one left in the community but Quakers now who don't care about anything but being "uber" super killers
If that were true, there'd be no tradeskill-endowed characters offering services to others. The fact of the matter is that there still are, and more have been more popping up - excluding mules.
You're correct in the assumption that combat is somewhat required. That's the way NC's designed. If you wanted a pure non-combat character, well, you're in for either boredom, slow leveling, or a different game, as NC's not about a complete lack of combat.
If anyone''s "beating a dead horse", it's the ones pushing to require tradeskillers be non-combat characters.
KRIMINAL99
22-10-03, 14:55
These were my ideas that I posted in brainport and had come up with for a fantasy patch thread. They aren't only about tradeskills but the sum total would be tradeskills would be much more useful.
-All low level item parts removed from shops and placed as mob loot only in the form of weapon parts and bpable low quality weapons that must be ided by ressers (the bps that is, not the weapon parts). Chems removed from game along with chem junk.
- Hack boxes now contain parts of the items the box is named after, and respawn a little while after being hacked.
-Mob loot increased somewhat and all non relevant items removed. Mob money rewards increased mostly at lower levels.
-A faction score implemented that increases when you participate in pvp by killing enemy faction members and winning OP wars. You receive a daily salary based on this score that is the majority of your income. Clans have a seperate score based on the scores of its members and bonuses for owning OPS and a seperate salary. Both of these scores are reset or decay daily and are unlimited in range.
-All current rares removed from mob loot table; instead the high level mobs drop one rare tablet that can be Ided by a resser and then given to your Faction HQ. For each one of these IDed tablets your HQ can sell you one rare kit of that type for lots of money. The rare kit is then assembled by a constructor. The most difficult part of this process is getting enough money, which is done easiest by participating in PVP.
-Faction specific items also purchasable there (Ones that can be dropped and bped but require the highest level parts).
-All non OP genreps removed, but more generic dungeons or mobs placed somewhere near each faction so that players can fight all but the highest lvl and unique mobs near their faction hq.
-Copbots reduced in strength, all safezones removed. All faction headquarter guards equalized in both strength and number. LE's remain the same.
-PVP drops unlocked. Safeslot removed.
-SL penalties removed (other than copbot KOS), although a faction penalty system has been implemented where killing faction members increases prices at HQ and eventually boot from faction. (fairly quickly if it is done repeatedly purposely)
-Factionless members are considered Anarchy Breed. AB members recieve no salary or penalty for killing anyone even other AB, and are not clanable. However they are the only "faction" that can sell stolen items to NPC fences for 50% off who will then sell the items to anyone for 75% of normal price. (affected by barter)
-All stat and skill levels removed from players view, except to notify them when they get better. All skills gained by use, without any type of limitations other than time to raise them all and class restrictions which are unchanged. (Other than apu and ppu being opposite disciplines that can not be used together, ie training apu reduces ppu) Experience to raise skills drastically reduced mostly at higher levels.
-Weapons constructed at random quality between 80 and 120 with same chances for slots that rares have now. Higher construction skill means more chance for higher quality and more slots. Blueprints are made with a random quality level that determines a bonus or penalty to construction skill of the constructor that uses them.
-Barter xp given for player trades, but not the same players more than once a hour. Barter now adds a certain % of money based on skill of the barterer to the trade. IE if you pay 1000 for something then the person gets 1050. Same if the barter is recieving the money. Again this only is used once an hour with the same player, but it can be chosen weather to use the skill for a given trade or not.
-Salvage results drastically improved.
-OPs somewhat reduce costs for items purchased at faction hqs.
OP bonuses given worldwide, but reduced. They are also cumulative.
-OPs only have to be hacked once, but must be held for 15 minutes before they are captured. (Guess where thats from? :P)
-Both Turrets and Guards can be purchased/hired from faction hqs to protect OPS.
Note that this way a player could level construction/ research etc AND still have a weapon skill (or 3) It would just depend on how much time he spent doing each thing as to how good he got at it. Since you couldn't just go to crytons and buy a ton of parts and construct constantly the requirements to level could be drastically reduced.
First, you can level off tradeskills fairly well at lower levels, without fear of being ganked by others.
Second, you can level off them at mid and high levels, but it'll take ages. I should know - I spend a large part of my time researching and building. I could spend far more time knocking down Warbots, but I don't mind leveling at a slow pace (I've never capped a character).
Thanks to a lovely glitch, you stop getting int and dex gain just before the 80 mark (on spies) - and you need to do something other than the skill you've been using to gain past it. I broke down about 200 points away from that gain, and after researching over 150 parts to no avail decided to sell bulk junk (with my 1 barter skill). Bing xp gain.
And yes, you could spend more time productively knocking down warbots, and in fact you get better xp gain off that. With my Pain Easer... I was able to take down a warbot faster than I was able to research an 'e' part... if that doesn't say 'WTF', I don't know what does.
If that were true, there'd be no tradeskill-endowed characters offering services to others. The fact of the matter is that there still are, and more have been more popping up - excluding mules.
Most are mules. The only ones that aren't are the ones with comparitively lacking skills; which are fine for younger players and equipment - but not for the elder.
If anyone''s "beating a dead horse", it's the ones pushing to require tradeskillers be non-combat characters
Point out where we're begging for tradeskillers to be noncombative? We want skilling to become a viable way to level and build your character; so as people don't have to rely soley on combat.
:rolleyes:
Mkay try this
restore g00p (tradeskill ammos) and drug recycling ability
make salvaging possible to salvage Full parts (weaponpats if salvaging weapons)
make hacking a more useful skill (see bank hacking post from yesterday)
make weapons buyable at "better" quality initiating barter usefulness somewhat
Originally posted by Xaru
Have you ever seen a techpart in a belt? Not me. And i hacked alot of belts :)
I've dropped a rare in my belt many times, have even dropped un-ID'd rares from time to time, so it does happen. The fact someone didn't care enough to go get his belt that had a rare in it is unlikely, lessening the chance of you ever opening a belt that has one in it. It's not impossible to hack a belt with a rare in it, just not too likely.
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