View Full Version : Shelter or Deflector?
blah blah blah nerf monks blah blah.
Anyway, PPU's with shelter and deflector = pritty darn hard to kill yes, so, why not make it so only one of them works at the same time, this means people have to choose if they want to be invunerable to, leaving one weakness open for people to use it to their advantage. Holy heal would still put up a pritty damn good fight against it still but with 2 or 3 people on a ppu they are looking to head to the floor a lot quicker than the current situation.
So, should the holy shelter and deflector be unable to be both cast on the same person (think the others should be left as is...so you chooce between one holy def/shelt or can use both blessed shelt and def). I personally beleive it would shake things up a bit.....
discuss wheather this would be a viable change or is just completely stupid.
In that case, you might as well remove deflector as shelter is superior.
Originally posted by Zanathos
In that case, you might as well remove deflector as shelter is superior.
Maybe the monks with prefer shelter but as for the other classes, they maybe setup for taking the deflector better......people would just start using force weapons on monks then, put their energy weapons in the GoGo's....then, some people would change tp deflector and confuse the poor tanks.
What I am trying to get accross is the options people would have.
Would you use
a) a holy shelter
b) a holy deflector
c) a blessed shelter & deflector.
which...hopefully would make people think more about their selection of weapons....in theory...
sorry but no... it was a bug for a LONG time and got fixed finally so we can use both without a malus...
if they would make that step - in the wrong direction again...
i would cancel both my acc's and i know enough ex hybrids that are pissed enough with KK's monk decisions to quit over that too...
the solution for the monk problem is so piss easy but i cant be arsed to say it for the 10000 th time...
.cy
KidWithStick
17-10-03, 21:38
i think theres better solutions to PPU "things" than this...
as much as i dont like PPU's i think this is to much...
Shadow Dancer
17-10-03, 21:47
Excellent idea, i'm all for it.
KidWithStick
17-10-03, 21:47
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Excellent idea, i'm all for it.
negative
O_o
edit: i just got this in my head, what if they made it so they cant cast more than one shield on another person, like how they made the 50% reduction on other players that the PPU casted the spell on...they could make it just one at a time on people that the PPU casted it on...i think that would be more better than restructing the PPU to be choosing what buff he wants on.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Excellent idea, i'm all for it.
are you joking?
O_o
.cy
/e kid that was the old bug we had... if you had both on its only 50% ....omg are you guys so far to bring old bugs back to balance the game ??!
Monks.........+ piercing or force..................=...............dead.
Monks + deflector + pierc / force = not so dead.
Niether deflector nor shelter needs removed.
Great idea for several reasons. The need for more than one
weapon is a great plus, as it is now it doesnt matter what
damage type you do to someone since they will have the resists
damn high anyway. This way you would notice when you shoot
someone what weapon is most effective and then swap weapon
to adopt to the situation. Against tanks and spies energy
weapons would be superior but against PPUs, PEs and people
that have been buffed by a PPU you would have to make a more
conscious choice.
Also all this talk about speedgats and liberators being so good
against monks is utter BS. It used to be true before deflector
came in, and it was true for a while when there was a bug with
deflector and shelter, but now.. no. Monks dont have as bad
resist force as some believe, and the deflector helps just as good
against piercing and force as the shelter is against special
damage types, a force mod isnt better than a xray mod against
them. CS is better than speedgat on a monk. RoLH is better than
a lib.
Originally posted by KidWithStick
i think theres better solutions to PPU "things" than this...
as much as i dont like PPU's i think this is to much...
*shrugs* I am a PPU and I am willing to see if it works or not.
Originally posted by Genty
*shrugs* I am a PPU and I am willing to see if it works or not.
It wouldn't work. If a ppu didn't have deflector piercing weapons would do +100 damage to them and if they didn't have shelter energy weapons would be doing +100 damage to them. The ppu wouldn't even have a chance and would die in seconds like any other class that doesn't have shelter or deflector. And I konw they would still have holy heal but it still wouldnt be able to heal +100 damage.
Originally posted by petek480
It wouldn't work. If a ppu didn't have deflector piercing weapons would do +100 damage to them and if they didn't have shelter energy weapons would be doing +100 damage to them. The ppu wouldn't even have a chance and would die in seconds like any other class that doesn't have shelter or deflector. And I konw they would still have holy heal but it still wouldnt be able to heal +100 damage.
exactly... at least one who understands =)
it _wouldnt_ work
.cy
Ehm, a PPU who has been debuffed still need several people
shooting at him to take him down. How is this different from
being debuffed? Its not like he would suddenly become fragile, he
has the best armor in the game and heals to help him, and he
can still have protection against one of these damage so some
weapon mods and maybe some peoples weapons would still do
damage as usual. I think its a very good idea, as it would nerf
monks some but also lessen their impact in OP battles since you
wouldnt be able to put deflector and shelter on someone, and it
would make PEs become a underdog class again which I know
everyone would like.
ghandisfury
17-10-03, 22:10
FFS the solution is not to nerf the PPU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(exclamation to infinity)
I can kill 3 people at one time with my PE, I have killed 2 people at one time with my APU, I taken out 5 people with my spie, and you want 1 person to be able to take out a PPU....a person who has NO offenses (don't give me sould cluster shit). Pardon my enthusiasm, but it's a bunch of shit. 10 people or more should not be able to kill a *good* PPU why????? BECAUSE HE CAN'T HURT YOU! All he can do is take his beating and GR out. Is this how it should be? YES!!
There are 3 spells that define the PPU, those are parashock, damage boost, and resserect. If you remove parashock, make damage boost have to stack as it does on mobs, and give spies or PEs a weapon to remove people from battle, the PPU *problem* (yes, it's a problem) will be solved without nerfing the PPU.
Originally posted by Rade
Ehm, a PPU who has been debuffed still need several people
shooting at him to take him down. How is this different from
being debuffed?
first of all ... LOL... rade i can show you later how much dmg my monk takes without shelter / def...
he doesnt take an uber amount of dmg but it doesnt need _several_ ppl to take me down unbuffed lol
when i get debuffed in an op war i run as fast as i can to reshelter / def ...if i get bad fps or no cover... im dead
and thats the point in debuffing...
making a nerf that keeps us debuffed all the time would simply totally fuck the monk class up
.cy
I like the idea a great deal, however if it does make it in, KK will need to make higher lvl heals override the lower ones (gotta throw the PPU's some kinda bone with the nerf).
Originally posted by Keiron
I like the idea a great deal, however if it does make it in, KK will need to make higher lvl heals override the lower ones (gotta throw the PPU's some kinda bone with the nerf).
you mean the 20 ppu's that will be left ingame?
oh .. dont worry ... they wont complain :)
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
first of all ... LOL... rade i can show you later how much dmg my monk takes without shelter / def...
he doesnt take an uber amount of dmg but it doesnt need _several_ ppl to take me down unbuffed lol
when i get debuffed in an op war i run as fast as i can to reshelter / def ...if i get bad fps or no cover... im dead
and thats the point in debuffing...
making a nerf that keeps us debuffed all the time would simply totally fuck the monk class up
.cy
If one guy can kill you while you have heal, heal sanctum, and are
running around then you are honestly the worst ppu ever. If two
can do this then I would be very surprised, three maybe, but the
more they are the harder is it to keep aim on you.
Some good points being made but you seem to over look how useful blessed spells could be.....
Originally posted by Rade
If one guy can kill you while you have heal, heal sanctum, and are
running around then you are honestly the worst ppu ever. If two
can do this then I would be very surprised, three maybe, but the
more they are the harder is it to keep aim on you.
rade ..
have you ever played a ppu that got debuffed ?
have you ever debuffed a ppu as an apu ?
in the hectic of an op war ?
while gettin supported or supporting ?
no ?
then im sorry but i have to say that you dont know wtf you are talking about
show me one good ppu that got heal sanctum on in an op war...
show me one ppu who can run around in an op war while supporting 4 ppl in a 20 vs 10 fight...
make a ppu ... experience and test it.. then we can talk
.cy
KidWithStick
17-10-03, 22:30
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
you mean the 20 ppu's that will be left ingame?
oh .. dont worry ... they wont complain :)
.cy
you do gotta point, but id rather only see 20 PPU's on pluto other than 3/4ths the population.
yea, but if all the PPUs leave theres like 30 people left on pluto, prime time :p .
i also think this is a bad idea. lets review the point of being PPU: To stay alive, and help out teammates in combat. how would you go about doing that if your dead?
look at ghandisfury's ideas, i like them.
StoneRayne
17-10-03, 22:50
Deflector has always sucked. When they fix it you want it nerfed back to hell :lol:
Btw, rade, you're looking at it from PE's perspective. When you're in an OP fight, not only you're the "para spammer", but you're also a prime target for everyone else paraspamming you. So you get glued and died. ^^
Shadow Dancer
17-10-03, 23:24
IMO since apus don't even do piercing damage, why not remove anti-deflector and give spies/pes a deflector removing tool?
i don't see how that would be a nerf. It doesn't nerf the apu, it doesn't nerf the PPU since the pe/spy could have just as well been an apu anti-deflectoring, and it just gives pes/spies a use in op wars.
And it makes sense from an RP perspective.
Then make tanks uber gods of AOE, and perhaps every class can be useful in op wars. :D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IMO since apus don't even do piercing damage, why not remove anti-deflector and give spies/pes a deflector removing tool?
i don't see how that would be a nerf. It doesn't nerf the apu, it doesn't nerf the PPU since the pe/spy could have just as well been an apu anti-deflectoring, and it just gives pes/spies a use in op wars.
And it makes sense from an RP perspective.
Then make tanks uber gods of AOE, and perhaps every class can be useful in op wars. :D
Works for me, should be a thread solely about this solution tho.
Do you want to start it or are you tired of the "ONOZ SD just
wants PPUS NERFZORED!!!!!" replies?
Altho I think it would be more fitting if the Spy/PE anti PPU tool
would only help the Spy/PE using it, since those classes are more
loner types and not really support chars. Something like a
weapon that does low base damage but completely ignores
armor and shelters/deflectors. Would be good only vs people
with amazing resists and spells. Or something, I donno...
Shadow Dancer
17-10-03, 23:38
Originally posted by Rade
Works for me, should be a thread solely about this solution tho.
Do you want to start it or are you tired of the "ONOZ SD just
wants PPUS NERFZORED!!!!!" replies?
Yes i'm tired as hell of the "OMG SD CRIES LOLOLOLO I HAVE NO SELF-CONTROL SO I CLICK ON HIS THREADS ANYWAYS LOLOOL" crap, so can you start the thread?
Originally posted by Rade
Altho I think it would be more fitting if the Spy/PE anti PPU tool
would only help the Spy/PE using it, since those classes are more
loner types and not really support chars. Something like a
weapon that does low base damage but completely ignores
armor and shelters/deflectors. Would be good only vs people
with amazing resists and spells. Or something, I donno...
That could work too, but it seems like more work. Also if you anti-deflector the ppu then you can use your high damage piercing weapons. Also you would have to come up with pistol and rifle versions instead of just making 3 tool levels like stealth.
So, should the holy shelter and deflector be unable to be both cast on the same person (think the others should be left as is...so you chooce between one holy def/shelt or can use both blessed shelt and def). I personally beleive it would shake things up a bit.....
I dunno... I don't think this really fixes anything (what exactly is the problem you are trying to fix with this solution? PPUs being too tough to kill? or PPUs having too much effect on the outcome of a battle? or something else?)
First of all... if you have the choice of 1.) Holy Shelter 2.) Holy Deflector 3.) Blessed Shelter and Deflector... who would not go with option 3 (unless you were certain of the enemies mode of attack).
So in effect, you just nerfed PPUs staying power. But they are still mandatory for any fight (who will heal, who will rez, who will antipoison, who will parashock because you can't aim, etc etc...) But now they are weakened, and because they are weakened, they spend more time keeping themselves alive or more time dead.
So now the PPU class is worthless... they can't preform their function (which will drive the majority of people away) and they can't stand there like some sort of demi-god saying abusive things to your clan (which will drive the remaining people away). Now who will rez? Who will heal? I hate PPUs, but they serve certain important functions that need to be in game. Now no one can serve these functions because no one will play the class, and that's not good.
I'de much rather have the whole monk class returned to the hybrid system like I've said time and time again (make monks hybrids, ballance them, higher level buffs override lower level buffs, remove parashock, spies get a technology-based rez.) We don't need a single class to provide the important functions in the game, we need ALL the classes to provide important functions in the game.
If you nerf the PPU class and leave everything else the same, you only succeeded in removing the important functions and now everyone suffers.
I hope that made my point that I was trying to convey, but it probably didn't, so to make sure you atleast got my opinion on subject correct:
I don't like this system you propose.
I think monks should have one choice: Hybrid
Edit: P.S. There should be an aggressive peircing spell "Uzi Fist" or something, where you shoot bullets out of the palm at a rapid rate.
ghandisfury
18-10-03, 00:31
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IMO since apus don't even do piercing damage, why not remove anti-deflector and give spies/pes a deflector removing tool?
i don't see how that would be a nerf. It doesn't nerf the apu, it doesn't nerf the PPU since the pe/spy could have just as well been an apu anti-deflectoring, and it just gives pes/spies a use in op wars.
And it makes sense from an RP perspective.
Then make tanks uber gods of AOE, and perhaps every class can be useful in op wars. :D
How would this make the spie usefull in OP battles? An APU can remove heal, deflector, and shelter in 3 seconds flat. Remove holy antibuff, and give APUs ONLY anti shelter and we'll talk. :p
Originally posted by Zokk
I'de much rather have the whole monk class returned to the hybrid system like I've said time and time again (make monks hybrids, ballance them, higher level buffs override lower level buffs, remove parashock,
Maybe you haven't been keeping up on history, but I remember the uber hybrids...I remember having a team of 10 people...and dying to ONE hybrid....I remember the *sounds* of death (parashock, then damage boost, then poison)......I remember that there was_no_way_to_kill them even if you had 5, or 10, or even more people trying to. I'm suprised all of you don't see that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to "balance hybrids". Even a hybrid now is superior 1vs1, only because of his class. You would have to make heals that were slightly better than TL3 heals, and their offences would have to be worse than the hybrids now (because the only thing that makes a hybrid bad is the fact that he can move very little while shooting).
Originally posted by Zokk
spies get a technology-based rez.) We don't need a single class to provide the important functions in the game, we need ALL the classes to provide important functions in the game.
You are correct, I think that every class should have a function in an OP fight (right now, there are only functions for monks), but why on earth would you want the same function as a PPU? A spie wouldn't have the defences to resserect, and why would he want to? His "function in life" is to stay away from the battle, now you want to ask him to run in the middle of it?
Originally posted by Zokk
I think monks should have one choice: Hybrid
I think you're wrong, there are much safer, and easier methods to solve the problem. Just remember the hybrids of the past, and think how many things they would have to tottaly dismantle before a hybrid would work again. A better solution would be to get rid of the monk class and give PEs resserection (wait, didn't we just make a full 360?)....I can see it now, NERF THE PE!!!!
Originally posted by Zokk
Edit: P.S. There should be an aggressive peircing spell "Uzi Fist" or something, where you shoot bullets out of the palm at a rapid rate.
Oh ya, monks need more toys :rolleyes: FFS
I personally like the idea
BLAM BLAM BLAM..........dead monk
haha
Maybe you haven't been keeping up on history, but I remember the uber hybrids...I remember having a team of 10 people...and dying to ONE hybrid....I remember the *sounds* of death (parashock, then damage boost, then poison)......I remember that there was_no_way_to_kill them even if you had 5, or 10, or even more people trying to. I'm suprised all of you don't see that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to "balance hybrids". Even a hybrid now is superior 1vs1, only because of his class. You would have to make heals that were slightly better than TL3 heals, and their offences would have to be worse than the hybrids now (because the only thing that makes a hybrid bad is the fact that he can move very little while shooting).
First of all, I said balance the hybrids, as in, make them equal to the other classes in fighting ability, not as in combining APU offense with PPU defense into a single character, like they once were.
Second, you say there is no possible way to balance hybrids, and that is incorrect. You can tone down their shields, remove parashock, give them a damage output equal to other classes (keeping in mind that they can use damage boost,) and tone down their heals. They use spells that no other class has access to, so you can make the values whatever you want and no other classes will be affected.
That seems pretty balanced to me... the monks and tanks are fighters (tanks use brute force, monks use psi abilities,) spies are long range attackers (or the few that go pistols can do heavy damage with the higher TL pistols), PEs are now the true "hybrid" class (they use guns and psi, jack of all trades, etc). That (to me) seems the way the game was meant to be when looking at the backstory.
You are correct, I think that every class should have a function in an OP fight (right now, there are only functions for monks), but why on earth would you want the same function as a PPU? A spie wouldn't have the defences to resserect, and why would he want to? His "function in life" is to stay away from the battle, now you want to ask him to run in the middle of it?
You're locked into one frame of reference. Right now, PPUs charge into the middle of the battle unscathed, rez the fallen teammate, puts a heal on him and a shelter before the opposing side can react, and that teammate is back into the fray like nothing happened. PPUs shouldn't be able to do that... I don't expect spies to.
The idea is that Ressurection is a VERY powerful tool. Probably the most powerful ability in the game. If only one class has access to this power (PPU) you NEED that class. If monks were made into hybrids and they were still the only class with access to rez, you would NEED hybrids as well. But if a Spy possesses the power to bring the dead back to life through medical technology (Street Doc) that power is spread around.
He doesn't have to charge in the middle of the battle to benefit a fallen teammate... and frankily people (like me) who charge blindly into the middle of the enemy outpost and die (only when my stealth tool lags :p) in the middle of the enemy force should have little hope of being rezed unless the enemy is cleared out. Spies can also stealth, rez the fallen teammate if he is not spotted by the enemy, and both get the hell outta there.
I think you're wrong, there are much safer, and easier methods to solve the problem. Just remember the hybrids of the past, and think how many things they would have to tottaly dismantle before a hybrid would work again. A better solution would be to get rid of the monk class and give PEs resserection (wait, didn't we just make a full 360?)....I can see it now, NERF THE PE!!!!
Again, I said balance the hybrids. And sarcasm doesn't get anyone closer to solving the problem.
Oh ya, monks need more toys :rolleyes: FFS
Maybe not, but that would look cool :D
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.