View Full Version : One way to make this game a whole lot better.
Ok, I got this idea mainly from a thread about recycling skill, but the idea should be basically the same with everything. There should be an incentive to specialize in more skills in the game. No, not with one char, but i mean that every skill should be rewarding enough to put all of your skill points in it. Or at least a lot more. Like the recycling thread...If you would recycle crappy techs to better techs that would create a demand for a whole new tradeskill class.
Driving would be another good example. Why is there no reason to make a very good driver in the game? The Rhino is good, but in a way nerfed. How can it be that there are Tanks that aren't used in wars. I mean put some artillery on that thing, they should at least be an integral part in op wars. Imagine if you could bombard an OP for a while, don't you think it would add a new element to the game? Sure if they boosted the vehicles then they should cost more, or maybe even made rare.
What about resist PSI? Is that a broken skill or what? What noob char hasn't put a few points into this category. They even have resist PSI imps FFS. Make resist PSI worth something. Either make it reduce the damage done by PSI monks or make the chance of miscasting higher.
How about poking? Why doesn't that give XP? Theres another thing that could be fixed. Why can't you level a tradeskiller from start to finish without touching a weapon. It should be like that, and should be comprable with the amount of time it takes to level with guns.
Hacking is good, but nobody goes completely into hacking because there is nothing that high and rewarding for it. Most people stop at belt hacking level. Give us hacknet or something cool to hack like appartments.
Barter works ok but there is no way to level using barter. I think its pretty obvious and would cost lots of money to level a barterer (simply buying and selling) and is pretty resistant to exploits. Simply make the xp gain a percentage of the transaction.
Okay you get the idea. I am sure there are other things in there that are pretty useless too that i haven't covered. But this is in my opinion what is keeping newbs from liking the game. Not Pking, not parashock not...well whatever. We've all been around the block here and we all know what's broken or not, but when you start a new char, just look at the professions and look at how useless they are for the game as it is now. Almost all combat classes split the points between the two types of combat when ther is no advandate to using pistols and rifles. And then there is the Stock-x broker. WTF is that? Anyone who thinks that sort of gameplay is possible is basically unimformed.
In my opinion if this kind of depth was added to the game, it would be much better. What if, stockx was fixed and viable, vehicles were viable, leveling as a tradeskiller were viable, and all of the things that should be working now were viable. I would honestly prefer that to DoY considering how DoY will be new mobs and zones, and changes to the skill system, but I doubt nothing so revolutionary as to make every profession viable.
This is why i think we have the problem with Carebears and Anti-Carebears. The carebears like the Neocron world but don't want to have to fight for everything in the damn game without being bored all the time. The Anti-Carebear crowd wants to use the game to fight. They both have a point, as i see it, and if the game was made deeper, then it would solve a lot of these problems IMO. Im sure any self-respecting Carebear wouldn't mind being a driver for a vehicle in an Op war as that would be important, but not so difficlut as PVP.
But honestly. Go to the char creation screen and actually look at the setups you get. And don't forget the starting weapons (monks with GUNS ffs). Could this be any further from the reality of NC? If you are gonna start a PSI monk, how would you even possibly do it? I would put all points into APU and a few into PSI power and 2 in MST. But they start with about 35 in APU and 25 in PPU or something like that. Hmmm, not a good idea after they hybrid nerf. Basically these templates must have been made before the game itself was made, or when you didn't have to specialize (beta 4 and earlier) so much, but now if you are a tank and you use your STR for anything but HC you are gimped. Period.
Originally posted by Futureman
Ok, I got this idea mainly from a thread about recycling skill, but the idea should be basically the same with everything. There should be an incentive to specialize in more skills in the game. No, not with one char, but i mean that every skill should be rewarding enough to put all of your skill points in it. Or at least a lot more. Like the recycling thread...If you would recycle crappy techs to better techs that would create a demand for a whole new tradeskill class.
You haven't tried tradeskilling have you? At this point I would like to point out that the chose title that appears under your name appears to be very fitting.
Driving would be another good example. Why is there no reason to make a very good driver in the game? The Rhino is good, but in a way nerfed. How can it be that there are Tanks that aren't used in wars. I mean put some artillery on that thing, they should at least be an integral part in op wars. Imagine if you could bombard an OP for a while, don't you think it would add a new element to the game? Sure if they boosted the vehicles then they should cost more, or maybe even made rare.
You don't go to OP wars much do you? Vehicles are present at most of our OP wars on Uranus now. And don't forget that gliders are coming, which have quite high vehicle requirements iirc.
What about resist PSI? Is that a broken skill or what? What noob char hasn't put a few points into this category. They even have resist PSI imps FFS. Make resist PSI worth something. Either make it reduce the damage done by PSI monks or make the chance of miscasting higher.
Resist psi isn't broken, it resists the PSI type of damage, but there's only about 3 spells that do this type of damage, so it's basically useless. Much better to up your PPU and get a maxed out heal.
How about poking? Why doesn't that give XP? Theres another thing that could be fixed. Why can't you level a tradeskiller from start to finish without touching a weapon. It should be like that, and should be comprable with the amount of time it takes to level with guns.
Poking does give XP, but not that much. Poking I ouldn't consider a trade skill like researching, repairing or constructing. It's a secondary skill like hacking.
Hacking is good, but nobody goes completely into hacking because there is nothing that high and rewarding for it. Most people stop at belt hacking level. Give us hacknet or something cool to hack like appartments.
There's belts and OPs and thats abotu as high as you go atm. Again, atm atleast I consider hacking a secondary skill for PSIs and Spys. It's very useful in taking OPs.
Barter works ok but there is no way to level using barter. I think its pretty obvious and would cost lots of money to level a barterer (simply buying and selling) and is pretty resistant to exploits. Simply make the xp gain a percentage of the transaction.
You do already gain XP for bartering, but it is very low. You're quite right but barter has to be fairly difficult to level in. It can be very useful and you can make a fair amount of money with it once you have it. I wouldn't call it resistant to exploits.
Okay you get the idea. I am sure there are other things in there that are pretty useless too that i haven't covered. But this is in my opinion what is keeping newbs from liking the game. Not Pking, not parashock not...well whatever. We've all been around the block here and we all know what's broken or not, but when you start a new char, just look at the professions and look at how useless they are for the game as it is now. Almost all combat classes split the points between the two types of combat when ther is no advandate to using pistols and rifles. And then there is the Stock-x broker. WTF is that? Anyone who thinks that sort of gameplay is possible is basically unimformed.
Frankly I think your opinion is wrong. Most of your complaints are about nothing to do at high levels of trade skills. Newbies don't have high levels of trade skills. Tradeskilling, atleast on Uranus isn't usually a newbies first choice. IMO a newbie wants to grab a gun and be able to shoot something or someone and get invovled in the game. Not tradeskill.
In my opinion if this kind of depth was added to the game, it would be much better. What if, stockx was fixed and viable, vehicles were viable, leveling as a tradeskiller were viable, and all of the things that should be working now were viable. I would honestly prefer that to DoY considering how DoY will be new mobs and zones, and changes to the skill system, but I doubt nothing so revolutionary as to make every profession viable.
Vehicles are viable. Stockx does need fixing. ATM It's kinda hard to trade in stockx as you can't see any price histories. Tradeskilling is viable, you just need some weapon skills to levle in it.
KK have already said that DoY will bring additions to the skills system for capped players ('ceres knowledge').
This is why i think we have the problem with Carebears and Anti-Carebears. The carebears like the Neocron world but don't want to have to fight for everything in the damn game without being bored all the time. The Anti-Carebear crowd wants to use the game to fight. They both have a point, as i see it, and if the game was made deeper, then it would solve a lot of these problems IMO. Im sure any self-respecting Carebear wouldn't mind being a driver for a vehicle in an Op war as that would be important, but not so difficlut as PVP.
You don't get the carebear, anti-carebear thing do you? Carebears are people who want to make the game really easy, like many of your suggestions do. They want the rare drops increased until you get 5 parts in every warbot that you kill.
But honestly. Go to the char creation screen and actually look at the setups you get. And don't forget the starting weapons (monks with GUNS ffs). Could this be any further from the reality of NC? If you are gonna start a PSI monk, how would you even possibly do it? I would put all points into APU and a few into PSI power and 2 in MST. But they start with about 35 in APU and 25 in PPU or something like that. Hmmm, not a good idea after they hybrid nerf. Basically these templates must have been made before the game itself was made, or when you didn't have to specialize (beta 4 and earlier) so much, but now if you are a tank and you use your STR for anything but HC you are gimped. Period.
Erm, lots of monks use guns to level DEX quickly, then they LoM to vehicles or repairing. Just because you don't see monks with guns at OP wars (actually I have seen a couple of PPUs using them at OP wars), doesn't mean they don't use them.
And most APUs do start off hybrid. It's perfectly possible to use heal untill you get to the point where you want to put Attack CPU's in or wear PA.
The idea of the templates is so that newbies can quickly create a viable character. I do think that the character selection system need to be improved. You shouldn't have to scroll through the skill lists to see what a char template does. It should be sumarised in plain English in a window to the side.
This has been suggested before, by myself and others, and i hope KK implement it, especially for the DoY release / Neocron re-release.
Last I heard there were going to be new classes with DoY, so I think they may be waiting until then to revamp the character creation system.
Athon Solo
Originally posted by athon
You haven't tried tradeskilling have you? At this point I would like to point out that the chose title that appears under your name appears to be very fitting.
You don't go to OP wars much do you? Vehicles are present at most of our OP wars on Uranus now. And don't forget that gliders are coming, which have quite high vehicle requirements iirc.
Resist psi isn't broken, it resists the PSI type of damage, but there's only about 3 spells that do this type of damage, so it's basically useless. Much better to up your PPU and get a maxed out heal.
Poking does give XP, but not that much. Poking I ouldn't consider a trade skill like researching, repairing or constructing. It's a secondary skill like hacking.
There's belts and OPs and thats abotu as high as you go atm. Again, atm atleast I consider hacking a secondary skill for PSIs and Spys. It's very useful in taking OPs.
You do already gain XP for bartering, but it is very low. You're quite right but barter has to be fairly difficult to level in. It can be very useful and you can make a fair amount of money with it once you have it. I wouldn't call it resistant to exploits.
Frankly I think your opinion is wrong. Most of your complaints are about nothing to do at high levels of trade skills. Newbies don't have high levels of trade skills. Tradeskilling, atleast on Uranus isn't usually a newbies first choice. IMO a newbie wants to grab a gun and be able to shoot something or someone and get invovled in the game. Not tradeskill.
Vehicles are viable. Stockx does need fixing. ATM It's kinda hard to trade in stockx as you can't see any price histories. Tradeskilling is viable, you just need some weapon skills to levle in it.
KK have already said that DoY will bring additions to the skills system for capped players ('ceres knowledge').
You don't get the carebear, anti-carebear thing do you? Carebears are people who want to make the game really easy, like many of your suggestions do. They want the rare drops increased until you get 5 parts in every warbot that you kill.
Erm, lots of monks use guns to level DEX quickly, then they LoM to vehicles or repairing. Just because you don't see monks with guns at OP wars (actually I have seen a couple of PPUs using them at OP wars), doesn't mean they don't use them.
And most APUs do start off hybrid. It's perfectly possible to use heal untill you get to the point where you want to put Attack CPU's in or wear PA.
The idea of the templates is so that newbies can quickly create a viable character. I do think that the character selection system need to be improved. You shouldn't have to scroll through the skill lists to see what a char template does. It should be sumarised in plain English in a window to the side.
This has been suggested before, by myself and others, and i hope KK implement it, especially for the DoY release / Neocron re-release.
Last I heard there were going to be new classes with DoY, so I think they may be waiting until then to revamp the character creation system.
Athon Solo
Athlon,
Is this what I get for trying to make a suggestion? I am really getting sick of your posts where you try to dissect every single thing about what the person said without any positive commentary. If this is how you get your kicks, by arguing with other people over pointless thing.
POKING: You can't level by poking. Is STUPID to do so. Ever tried it? I did when i was a noob, theres no chance.
RES/CON: YOU CAN'T LEVEL doing that either. Maybe till you get around lvl 60 or so, but its impossible to lvl after lvl 80 as there is a barrier.
OP Wars: I've been to plenty of OP wars, and vehicles are an afterthought. Simple. They are usually used as a distraction. I play on Saturn, and i've heard plenty of strange things about Jupiter anyway. Yeah i know Gliders are coming, and that would actually help. But i have yet to be shown that KK wants to give people an incentive to use them.
Resist PSI: IT IS WORTHLESS. Why make a chip for a type of attack that isn't used. I know it resists Psi attack 1 and 2. Or at least so i've heard. But do noobs know that? Nope they do not. You seem to be defending the game's illogical half implemented features, just because we all know how they work by now, but new people don't. Oh sure, it "works," but is it of any value? Thats the whole point of this thread. Its worthless. My point is that I have no clue why you would even suggest this as some sort of rebutall to my argument. You know its worthless and you know not to use it. What if: for example, a spy could put all of his PSI power points into resist PSI? It would be an interesting choice. Maybe he would be more resistant to monks but he couldn't heal then.
Monks with guns: See, its obvious here that you are simply trying to take me down a notch for no reason. Ever try to level a Monk's dex with a gun? Its by far the stupidest way to do it. Much easier to do missions or epics. But does John Q. Noob know that? No he does not. Best way is poking a moveon. Why act like it makes sense to give a noob monk a gun? Its stupid to even suggest it makes sense.
also:
athon
One Tru Bru
Registered: April 2003
Futureman
n00b spy
Registered: August 2002
OMG just because im not a 1337 powerposter doesn't mean that I am a noob, buddy.
And finally I don't think you get it. Newbies don't have high tradeskill levels. EXACTLY my point. How do you get a high tradeskill? Combat, and killing mobs. There should be an alternative to that, and that is exactly my point. I bet you would see a lot less carebear whining if they didn't have to go out and participate in combat if they only wanted to make money. Give them a viable way to cap that doesn't invlove killing stuff and you'll see a lot less complaining.
I don't want to make the game easier. I think that is clear. Why can't it be different.
Carebears don't want the game to be easier. Well the do in a sense. Carebears want the game to not invlove having to die. If you give a guy a chance to play a char without having to kill something, then he'll be much happier than being forced into combat that he didn't want in the first place. I don't want to change anything about PVP rules. I would actually make them less carebearish if it were down to my personal taste, but i realize that my way of playing doesn't suit everyone else's.
Anyway, i don't understand the problem. Say if johnny constructor capped his Dex and Int after a month of constant construciton. What would be the harm in that? It makes much more sense than him shooting things. And if he decides to lom to RC and INT, he'll probably suck because his CON will be low as will his Psi power. Who cares if someone creates a capped SPY? without combat? I really don't care what someone has to do. If they want to sit in plaza making lazar guns for a month while i get to have fun and explore the outside world then so be it, the'll get pwned anyway.
I have constructed, i have poked, i have researched, and i have found that combat is the only way to actually be good in any of these skills. I have recycled, but there isn't much point to it, though. Sure cloning ammo, i know its a very good idea. Would it be so bad to use the recycler to get new techparts? It would be an entirely new type of char to play.
Final point: What do people play the game for? They want to have power. The only way to do that is by fighting now. I don't want to make the game easier, i just want to make it broader. And btw, i can't tell you how many times i've seen noobs trying to lvl INT by poking in Plaza 1. I have tried all the trade skills and I know what I'm talking about.
Jesterthegreat
17-10-03, 16:32
Originally posted by Futureman
Ok, I got this idea mainly from a thread about recycling skill, but the idea should be basically the same with everything. There should be an incentive to specialize in more skills in the game. No, not with one char, but i mean that every skill should be rewarding enough to put all of your skill points in it. Or at least a lot more. Like the recycling thread...If you would recycle crappy techs to better techs that would create a demand for a whole new tradeskill class. agreed 100%
Driving would be another good example. Why is there no reason to make a very good driver in the game? The Rhino is good, but in a way nerfed. How can it be that there are Tanks that aren't used in wars. I mean put some artillery on that thing, they should at least be an integral part in op wars. Imagine if you could bombard an OP for a while, don't you think it would add a new element to the game? Sure if they boosted the vehicles then they should cost more, or maybe even made rare.
scorp bikes should improve this
What about resist PSI? Is that a broken skill or what? What noob char hasn't put a few points into this category. They even have resist PSI imps FFS. Make resist PSI worth something. Either make it reduce the damage done by PSI monks or make the chance of miscasting higher.
personally i never did (didnt do resists as a noob ^.^) but yeah... causing more misscasts or lowering damage is a must for this
How about poking? Why doesn't that give XP? Theres another thing that could be fixed. Why can't you level a tradeskiller from start to finish without touching a weapon. It should be like that, and should be comprable with the amount of time it takes to level with guns.
it sucks... but i leveled to 187 (237 /w lab) res with only tradeskilling... its possible
Hacking is good, but nobody goes completely into hacking because there is nothing that high and rewarding for it. Most people stop at belt hacking level. Give us hacknet or something cool to hack like appartments. no apt hacking... or there is nowhere safe to keep stuff... unless its only door hacking, no cabnet hacking
Barter works ok but there is no way to level using barter. I think its pretty obvious and would cost lots of money to level a barterer (simply buying and selling) and is pretty resistant to exploits. Simply make the xp gain a percentage of the transaction.
this is not a real tradeskill... more a side hobby IMO... if it was raised then anyone buying / selling would get more int XP, ruining balance
Okay you get the idea. I am sure there are other things in there that are pretty useless too that i haven't covered. But this is in my opinion what is keeping newbs from liking the game. Not Pking, not parashock not...well whatever. We've all been around the block here and we all know what's broken or not, but when you start a new char, just look at the professions and look at how useless they are for the game as it is now. Almost all combat classes split the points between the two types of combat when ther is no advandate to using pistols and rifles. And then there is the Stock-x broker. WTF is that? Anyone who thinks that sort of gameplay is possible is basically unimformed.
i think none of this is keeping players away... its a HELL of alot easier to cap here than on DAoC or EQ, but yeah tradeskills need to be sorted (as does stability)
But honestly. Go to the char creation screen and actually look at the setups you get. And don't forget the starting weapons (monks with GUNS ffs). Could this be any further from the reality of NC? If you are gonna start a PSI monk, how would you even possibly do it? I would put all points into APU and a few into PSI power and 2 in MST. But they start with about 35 in APU and 25 in PPU or something like that. Hmmm, not a good idea after they hybrid nerf. Basically these templates must have been made before the game itself was made, or when you didn't have to specialize (beta 4 and earlier) so much, but now if you are a tank and you use your STR for anything but HC you are gimped. Period. well... the only HC weapon from 0/2 is a grenade... so never go HC from char creation lol
over all i would agree with this post... KK sort it!
I say, just get rid of vehicles all together.....;)
Im not the kind of person to play a game by sitting in plaza 1 all day yelling my tradeskill.
Thats basically what this thread is about.
Erm... you just did exactly what you had a go at me for doing, except you just posted it all down the bottom. I post it where relevent so it's easier to read (imo anyway).
You gave your views on stuff and I gave my views. That's what a forum is about. That's what discussion is about.
Obviously your definition of carebears is different to mine and most of the people I know. But that's a minor point.
Obviously the situation on your server is different from that on Uranus. I very rarely see newbie pokers in Plaza.
You seem to think that the amount of time you've been registered has any bearing on this. At the end of the day it's mostly opinions, and the fact that you stoop to quoting registration dates shows what a noob you are. For all I know, you haven't played for 6 months and only had your account reactivated 2 weeks ago.
Why should johnny constructor get to cap his DEX and INT in 1 month when it takes everyone else 3+ months?
What do I play the game for? fun. I play games to have fun. Some people have fun by killing others, some by roleplaying, some by constructing all day long.
Athon Solo
I agree 100% that certain tradeskills need their exp gain upped a bit.
It doesn't negate the fact that tradeskills are their for monetary gain, not stat gain.
I admit, it would be amazingly cool to be able to full cap a dude solely through skilling, but it doesn't change the fact that the money made through sales and trade is supposed to counter-balance the comparitively low exp gain.
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