View Full Version : APU/PPU or Hyrbid?
There's a lot of moaning about monks, but I can't see a clear opinion so I thought I'd start a poll.
Which would your pefer? The current APU or PPU system or all monhks are hybrids?
Ozambabbaz
14-10-03, 14:24
triple cost on paraspam
double cost on holy lightning and halve the range on both
edit: next patch, or i'll sex someone innocent
APU / PPU.
Monks are balanced, paraspam could be toned down a little, but tbh its a 50/50 arguement.
Th current system while a drastic change, works, there are very few hybrids still around and hunting with a rank over 100 is shitty, before the hybrid split i had a monk at 87 / 35.............i couldnt bloody level for love nor money.....wich is good.
So,
APU / PPU = Good
Hybrid = EVIL
Feel free to argue , you all know im right MUAUHAUHAHUHA I R RIGHTT!!!!!!!!OMFGONOOOOOOZZZZZZZZZZZ
if they got the hybrids back id re-roll on the spot.
not everone wants or likes to be pure.
hybrids all the way... just lower both ppu and apu dmg caps
nearly reachable for capped hybrid monks ... this way all gotta go hybrid
then you balance em..
take some spells out ( like holy para and / or DB )...
lower the dmg or the range on some spells....
etc etc
its so damn easy
imo the pure monk crap sucks..
.cy
ericdraven
14-10-03, 14:45
The current APU/PPU system? o_O
Just because everyone went pure and there are hardly hybrids left it does NOT mean we have an (forced) APU/PPU system now.
Hybrids are still viable, just not so crazy overpowered as before.
FORCE me to play hybrid and i'd consider to quit the game. Hybrids are boring like hell. My opinion. And i don't want anyone to tell me that i HAVE TO play an hybrid. If someone likes hybrids - play it. Nothing wrong with them, even after the hybrid "nerf", which i would not call nerf but "correction".
If someone wants to play pure - like me - let him be.
Originally posted by ericdraven
The current APU/PPU system? o_O
Just because everyone went pure and there are hardly hybrids left it does NOT mean we have an (forced) APU/PPU system now.
Hybrids are still viable, just not so crazy overpowered as before.
FORCE me to play hybrid and i'd consider to quit the game. Hybrids are boring like hell. My opinion. And i don't want anyone to tell me that i HAVE TO play an hybrid. If someone likes hybrids - play it. Nothing wrong with them, even after the hybrid "nerf", which i would not call nerf but "correction".
If someone wants to play pure - like me - let him be.
i lomed 100 mil psi to test EVERYTHING with hybrids... you say they are playable ? forget it !
no matter what you do its fucked up... and yes i tested with 4 -5 slot spells and even a psi kami chip..
sure you can win 1o1's but it takes like 10 mins to kill someone cause you do around 20 dmg to a good tank..even less to a pe
in op wars you're completely useless then
you say hybrids are boring ? o.O
lol...as a hybrid you can do everything alone like every other class... as a pure i gotta wait in p1 the whole day waiting for a fighter to go pking / lvling with me.. i cant do shit as a pure alone..
THATS boring
and what would stop you playing a pure monk when hybrids were viable again ?
exactly what you dont want to happen to you happend to me.. i got forced to play a pure after i played a hybrid since beta 4
.cy
Original monk
14-10-03, 14:58
I want a hybrid rezzurection, i dont wonna be forced to play pure, and yes -30% from each side: PPU and APU is forced, hybrids are dead, if you still play a hybrid its because you are to lazy to lom away. hybrids viable atm ? nope, not a chance... if ya wonna be cannonfeed maybe..
@ eric draven: "correction" yeah right a whipe every hybrid from the server "correction" yeah (or probably i dont have the skills to play a hybrid atm :rolleyes: )
ericdraven
14-10-03, 15:03
Ask the remaining hybrids - hinch for example - if hybrids are viable or not.
No, you can't fight with ten Grim Chasers at once anymore.
No, you won't win 99% of your duels anymore.
No, you can't gank half of a clan on your own anymore.
THAT'S what i call boring. And i played one of those "über-hybrids" by myself so i know how it was.
Let's go hunt some firemobs.. ok.. shelter on, heal sanctum on.. damageboost, shoot, shoot, shoot.. ok, next Grim please.. oh, health is below 100 - holy heal.. next one please.. *yawn*
Let's go PK a little bit. Oh, look a mighty warrior, also called tank - shelter, deflector, holy para, damage boost.. ooh, he shoots me with the speedgun.. damn.. i lost 10 HP, wtf?!?! ok, holy heal. holy lightning, shoot, shoot, shoot.. oki. next one please.
:)
Originally posted by ericdraven
Ask the remaining hybrids - hinch for example - if hybrids are viable or not.
i talked with him a lot about hybrids and I tested with him on pluto.. kthx *sigh*
i try to get him on irc ...
.cy
ericdraven
14-10-03, 15:10
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i talked with him a lot about hybrids and I tested with him on pluto.. kthx *sigh*
Yes, and?
I read a post from him here on the forum that his setup is still viable. Yes, not that overpowered as before, but viable. Did he change his mind?
I also played my hybrid for a while after the "nerf". The defense (of my setup) didn't decrease very much, the offense sucked big time, yes. But that's ok, 'cause i still was nearly unkillable. PvM for sure, PvP probably not, but at least it is a challenge now, not like before.. o_O
Pure PPU for me. Hybrids never really appealed to me, even back when they were uber shit.
ghandisfury
14-10-03, 16:49
I want it to stay as pure APU, PPU combo. But here is a BIG problem with monks. I'm out fighting two people last night. One tank, one APU (no PPU, was superfun). Get this, I stealth up behind the monk, empty more than half a clip of an explosive modded lib into him. It takes him down to about half health, he turn, and him and the tank gang up on me....I stealth away. Anyway, this goes on for a bit, and I say fuck it..I'm going to kill at least on of them before I die. The APU got 3 hits on me, and I die. I have great....GREAT energy resists, and it took him less than 1/4 of his mana to kill me.
Point blank range 1/2 clip and I get him to half health.....3 hits, and he kills me. If you are a descent APU, a 1vs1 fight is a sure win because all you have to do is land 4 (more often less than that) hits for a kill, and with a good setup able to take a good beeting as well. I don't have a problem with APUs having the power that they do, I have a problem with them having good defences as well. Any piercing weapon should make an APU shrivle up like pouring salt on snail. Not only that, but they should have a range of 200meters MAX on any weapon. This is only oppinion, take it for what you will.
PPUs....ahhh the PPU. There are three problems with the PPU right now. Number one is the good ol' parashock. What's the standard protocall for fighting with a PPU? First parashock, then damage boost, then heal your mate. It's a sure win every time. Next problem with PPUs is damage boost. IMO it should add 10% more damage MAX PvP, and should serve more as a marker than then adding more than double damage. Finally resserect. The biggest problem there is that there is no counter for it. Once you've made that kill, and a PPU is there.....all you can do is hopefull drop the target once he tries to rezz again. There NEEDs to be a way to counter it, or the PPU will NEVER be balanced.
These are all my oppinions, and are what I believe will turn Monkocron back into Neocron.
I have great....GREAT energy resists, and it took him less than 1/4 of his mana to kill me
Capping out enr resist and then shelter on top - you take around 30 a hit if that.
with 450 HLT - you laugh, and then annihilate the APU.
silly monkeh
Ozambabbaz
14-10-03, 17:22
Originally posted by evs
Capping out enr resist and then shelter on top - you take around 30 a hit if that.
with 450 HLT - you laugh, and then annihilate the APU.
silly monkeh
how..without gimping frr, xrr or runspeed?
:)
bit o playin n testing stuff for a while n a good deal of thought.
n no - my runspeed isnt gimped - and neither is my fir or xrr
cmon ozam uve seen me kill enough on the battlefield to know i aint gimped ;)
Ozambabbaz
14-10-03, 17:43
but what's the catch? :p
drugs, PPU shelter, 40psi buffs? what isit :D
Wanted to go TL 3 heal but.... lol u need like 50 PPU points just to get that heal "because of all negatives... O_o"
A TL 3 APU is just fine for me =)
And with the PPU buffs you are equal to a pure one..
So bring me tha TL 3 heal to me :p
Originally posted by Original monk
if you still play a hybrid its because you are to lazy to lom away.
i think you can STFU
I'm still hybrid. why? because i can LIVE WITH THE FUCKING NERF.
why can i live with it? BECAUSE I ENJOY BEING HYBRID.
why do i enjoy being hybrid? BECAUSE I DONT HAVE TO HAVE A PPU STRAPPED TO MY ARSE 24/7
leave the fucking monks alone. only paraspam needs fixing.
Make all hybrids
That way the attack and defence can be better controlled atm its a joke and not fun ( speaking as a tank )
Also I play a ppu and I really like that char however for pvp and perhaps a bit of variation ( ie not 8 monks 1 pe and 1 tank in op wafare which seems to be way atm ) everyone should be hybrid
And get rid of the para all together
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i lomed 100 mil psi to test EVERYTHING with hybrids... you say they are playable ? forget it !
no matter what you do its fucked up... and yes i tested with 4 -5 slot spells and even a psi kami chip..
sure you can win 1o1's but it takes like 10 mins to kill someone cause you do around 20 dmg to a good tank..even less to a pe
in op wars you're completely useless then
you say hybrids are boring ? o.O
lol...as a hybrid you can do everything alone like every other class... as a pure i gotta wait in p1 the whole day waiting for a fighter to go pking / lvling with me.. i cant do shit as a pure alone..
THATS boring
and what would stop you playing a pure monk when hybrids were viable again ?
exactly what you dont want to happen to you happend to me.. i got forced to play a pure after i played a hybrid since beta 4
.cy
And you think that if everyone would be forced to be a hybrid that KK would give them a boost:confused: I don't think so, everyone complained before because hybrids had defeneses as good as ppus and did damage like an apu. So KK then nerfed them and maybe they were nerfed , but still it was the only thing to do.
Right now hybrids can still win 1 on 1, even if it takes 10 minutes to take down a GOOD tank. So i don't see how making everyone hybrids can change it. KK can't boost there damage because everyone will complain. They can't nerf there defenses because people will complain about dieing too easily. So the only thing to do is just keep working on pures.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
sure you can win 1o1's
Then its balanced imo, when you say it takes 10 mins thats against a good setup char which should take time and be a good fight reguardless of class.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
as a hybrid you can do everything alone like every other class... as a pure i gotta wait in p1 the whole day waiting for a fighter to go pking / lvling with me.. i cant do shit as a pure alone..
THATS boring
The only class that NEEDS another to lvl is ppu, if you are ppu, mabey you should have went apu...
Hybrids are viable, they just dont dominate a situation as before. So all who played them couldnt bear to carry on playing them as they were used to massive dmg/defense so they felt they had to choose one rather than having a balance imo
Now any class bar a ppu takes chances, the ppu doesnt have to as they have no offence, eg against a grim chaser all classes who can solo it can die to it if not carefull, before a chaser V a hybrid was a joke :angel:
Edit: bleh some of the points covered above, im too slow :(
All Monks beeing Hybrids would be boooring. There must be the possibility to go pure and it has to stay attractive. Dont you remember the people at hybrid times that wanted to go pure and there was no possiblity to become better than a Hybrid for them?
Sure something has to be done, because pure monks dominate every battle simply too much and that takes the fun out of other classes sometimes.
I still think the main problem is that the PPU shelter/deflector is way too strong and protects too much. Why not nerf the foreign casts a little?? The PPU itself would be still nearly invulnerable and thats what he wants for first if he becomes a pure PPU. And an APU would do even more damage on sheltered people, thats also what he wants when he decides to become a pure APU. Sure he would be more vulnerable even with a PPU on his back then, but he accepted the fact that he is more vulnerable in becoming a pure APU, and there should be no way for him even with a PPU to become godlike.
Imagine that way, you dont have to change anything on the Pures itself, only their influence. Sure there are still some other little problems like the range of APUs and Paraspam, but that sort of nerf would be a start to make battles more fun again without really touching any class.
Originally posted by Omnituens
i think you can STFU
I'm still hybrid. why? because i can LIVE WITH THE FUCKING NERF.
why can i live with it? BECAUSE I ENJOY BEING HYBRID.
why do i enjoy being hybrid? BECAUSE I DONT HAVE TO HAVE A PPU STRAPPED TO MY ARSE 24/7
That are exactly my answers too :)
FirestarXL
14-10-03, 19:57
Originally posted by mehirc
. Why not nerf the foreign casts a little??
I seem to remember that being in the patch notes a few patches ago? Can't remember which one though with all these hotfixes.
Originally posted by FirestarXL
I seem to remember that being in the patch notes a few patches ago? Can't remember which one though with all these hotfixes.
Patch #185 Notes
- Reduced effects of shelter and shield on other Runners by 50%
Obviously that only meant that a PPU spell at 500% has the effect of an 450% on others. :o
ericdraven
14-10-03, 20:42
Originally posted by mehirc
Obviously that only meant that a PPU spell at 500% has the effect of an 450% on others. :o
Nope. That would be almost no difference.
It's 500% -> 250%.
Shadow Dancer
14-10-03, 20:42
I thought it meant 50% less protection overall, not the actual stat on the spell.
Well then its still not enough :angel:
ghandisfury
14-10-03, 23:28
Originally posted by ericdraven
Nope. That would be almost no difference.
It's 500% -> 250%.
Which means that a PE with a capped shelter has almost as good a shelter that has been foreign cast from a capped PPU. WHIIIIICH means that a PE can have better defences then a tank 1vs1.
KRIMINAL99
15-10-03, 04:55
IMO everythings fine except for one thing: PPU monks need to be able to be killed... I think that the level they strengthen their teammates isnt the problem... even before the 50% on other shield nerf.
I think the problem is quite simply is they are too hard to kill. They buff up and heal once and they are invcible for the duration of the heal.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
IMO everythings fine except for one thing: PPU monks need to be able to be killed... I think that the level they strengthen their teammates isnt the problem... even before the 50% on other shield nerf.
I think the problem is quite simply is they are too hard to kill. They buff up and heal once and they are invcible for the duration of the heal.
PPU should be hard to kill. However, they are a little too hard to kill now and they need to be toned down a bit. And when i say toned down i mean have there defenses weakened a tiny bit, not a huge nerf that makes them useless.
But it still doesn't solve the problem with always having to need a ppu. Even with the 50% less protection on others, ppu buffs can turn someone into a god and if you got a good ppu that actually keeps a heal on there teammates it's gonna be hard to kill them and if you don't have a ppu for youself you're gonna die. I personally don't see anything wrong with this. You got a ppu with you so you should win.
Originally posted by Ozambabbaz
double cost on holy lightning and halve the range on both
Hell no on the doubling of the cost. I get about 10 HL shots out then I have to wait a good 5-10 seconds to get fast cast back, or I'm firing slow as I get just enough PSI to fire. I've been trying to get more pool and only have 10 INT to go to cap. Too bad PSI Pool doesn't increase after 203 PSI Use, so I'm screwed with 313.
But the range, yeah, I think APUs could use a range nerf. I used to hate how far monks could hit my drones when I was FN. And now as FuckNut, it's ridiculous how far I can "snipe" with HL and FA. Cut the ranges to like 125 meters and I think that would make PvP skill matter a little more than the current "Get out of the opponents draw distance and fire away".
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