View Full Version : The results of 'Monkacron'
I think it's hard to argue that we are seeing more and more monks in this game. I myself created a monk on a second account a few months ago and while leveling in the Chaos Caves I never saw more than two of any class other than monks in my team.
I have been playing this game for a year now so Ive seen the game change a lot. Ive seen untouchable Libby PEs and Ive seen invincible hybrid monks. Long ago I was a PE in a sea of Gentanks. We used to never have monks with us. It was usually just me and a bunch of smurfs. Now it seems its only monks that in habit the world of Neocron.
And you may think this thread is calling for the nerfing of monks. While I personally think some thing needs to change, thats not the purpose of this thread. My point is that our reliance on monks has made my server Pluto full of pussies.
No one fights without monks any more. I can't remember the last time I saw a group of pkers without a PPU with them. It's like every one has lost their balls. The reliance on monks is so complete that people in the game can't even comprehend fighting without a PPU. It's pathetic. Just watch the banter between clans after an op war. The excuse for losing is that they had less PPUs, EVERY TIME.
I feel like I'm at an advatange over every one else because I was gone for a few months. I lost some of my skill from time but every one else on the server lost some skill but relying on a PPU for every single freaking aspect of the game.
So here is my call to action to the people of Pluto. If you don't have a PPU online, hack that enemy op anyways. If you don't have a PPU with you, go pk people at an enemy HQ anyways. If you don't have a PPU, go fight people at the Pepper Park zone line anyways. Don't limit yourself to only having fun when a PPU is online. It's ok to lose, and you don't even have to whine about not having a PPU. I'm serious, try it this week. Let's not let Pluto turn into a server with no PvP skill.
I have to admit, this happens a hell of alot on Pluto. Logged on Saturn for the first time in ages yesterday, and when I went into PP there were 5 PEs dueling, 3 rifle and 2 pistol... 1 APU came into the fight later on, but there were no PPUs around at all. On a 4 char server ffs!
I doubt we can convince the Plutonians, because everyone and their mother has multiple accounts, and clans always bring PPUs with them to OP wars... *sigh* :(
the reason why there are ppus around at PP is that EVERYONE IS A MONK we are a weak class if not buffed and need a ppu with us to even stand toe to toe with a pe or a tank.
Originally posted by Hayato
the reason why there are ppus around at PP is that EVERYONE IS A MONK we are a weak class if not buffed and need a ppu with us to even stand toe to toe with a pe or a tank. Thats my point Hayato. You think you cant fight without a PPU but your wrong. If we fought 1 on 1 (and I didnt run away to heal) then it would be a very even fight.
I fought an APU-PPU combo in Biotech HQ the other day and the APU dropped me in like 4 seconds. Even if he wasnt buffed by the PPU that wouldn't have been enough time for me kill him. But I seriously doubt that the APU would ever fight me alone. Not that he couldn't, but because he is too reliant on the PPU to even think of fighting without him.
Psychoninja
13-10-03, 19:42
I know what you mean. Since I went APU I've been chased around by PPUs and whoever they're buffing. I never had a PPU of my own since I was the PPU. So pretty much I just end up running around in circles synching in and out trying not to die or to wear off Para/dmg boost/poison stacks. I know people would consider synching in and out pussie tactics but everyone does it one way or another *cough* PPU *cough* :rolleyes:
The problem with the game is everyone is determined to win and the only way to do it is with a PPU at hand. If you're enemy is using one, chances are you're going to have to also.
TBH it's not as much of a worry anymore for someone to have a PPU because they're alot easier to kill. I'd say there's only a handfull of PPUs now that are near impossible to kill, and they know who they are ;)
I fought an APU-PPU combo in Biotech HQ the other day and the APU dropped me in like 4 seconds. Even if he wasnt buffed by the PPU that wouldn't have been enough time for me kill him. But I seriously doubt that the APU would ever fight me alone. Not that he couldn't, but because he is too reliant on the PPU to even think of fighting without him.
hehe but didnt u kill the APU and PPU right before they came back and ganked u(i think u may have been in the middle of hacking a belt or soemthin)
[edit] I'll go with no PPU to warzones...but anywhere I'll drop a belt I wont go unless there are at least 2 APU or a PPU with me
make all monks hybrids ffs
i dont know how often i have to say it .. thats the best solution..
you make all monks hybrids again and then you can balance em SO FUCKING EASY
imo the whole monk situation is so fucked up
gah im sick of it
.cy
Well I use my PE to go on solo spree's, but the thing is you KNOW that you cant fight a team if they have a PPU, thats why people bring PPUs with them.... its a 2 catch story :wtf:
we onyl got 1 ppu in our guild and if we in the mood we go do what we want anyway and the ppu ahrdly ever comes as they would rather use there PE normaly
Originally posted by joran420
hehe but didnt u kill the APU and PPU right before they came back and ganked u(i think u may have been in the middle of hacking a belt or soemthin)
[edit] I'll go with no PPU to warzones...but anywhere I'll drop a belt I wont go unless there are at least 2 APU or a PPU with me Haha. No I killed the APU while he was hacking a belt and I think I caught the PPU unbuffed. But when they came back later they destroyed me. I wasn't even parashocked, the APU just nailed me with practically every HL shot he took. I think I even had my buffs on. My point in mentioning it was that he had a PPU with him but didn't need too. He would have beaten me with those hits regardless, but yet he probably wouldn't have even risked it without the PPU glued to him.
And Fenix, thats the problem, you CAN beat a group if they have a PPU. I'm definitely not the best fighter but I've killed about 5 PPUs (all but 1 of them were in groups) since I've been back. People can't even comprehend fighting without a PPU and its making everyone soft. A PPU in the enemy group absolutely makes it harder to beat them, but its still possible. Thats why I made the challenge in the post.
Personally I hope to start op combat with my clan soon and we have no PPUs, but I still want to do it. Cause you know what, with a little skill, some teamwork, and some tactics, we might actually be able to pull off a few victories.
now my self i agree completly with this but example
me alone snipeing against 5 enemys at a OP 4 of em monks 3 apu 1 ppu and 1 PE
i manage to kill the PE, i think attack the APU by him self (seperatly) then i look backa nd see a fully buffed ppu + 2 apu's + the rezzed PE, at this point im thinking pusseys as they didn't try to hunt me down with out hte PPU they stuck to his ass lick glue
come on 3 vs 1 ...........
but you are right jest, on the PE i had i used to go a ganking by my self :D many a happy time recently under cycrow waiting for them to gr in. any ways, i think kuari about it as he likes to snipe alone .....
PPU's can only target buff themselves = problem solved.
Sanctums and Groups should still work because it takes the chance of helping out your enemy (especially in an OP fight).
I agree. Monks have become the beall endall of Neocron. Of course you have to blame KK a bit: they make mobs that are near impossible to kill without a PPU, therefore the PPU has to become more powerful, and in turn makes the PvP aspect of the PPU even more valuable because if you can survive a 120 / 120 copbot you can certainly survive a 59 / 63 tank.
AND how do you take out the invincible PPU? With an APU. Oh wait.. thats even more monks. Sigh. Good thinkin' KK.
Psychoninja
13-10-03, 20:18
Fighting mobs doesn't have a thing to do with PPUs and their buffs. They nerfed PPUs buffs and they nerfed the mobs already to balance it out...somewhat...
A mobs rank isn't the same as a players rank, the only thing a mobs rank determines is how much exp and loot you get, a chars rank determines his weapon caps and his char caps.
The thread isn't about nerfing PPUs somemore because they don't need anymore nerfing. It's a rant about people going soft and not going past plaza 3 without a PPU. Plz don't consfuse it.
I disagree mr. ninja.
Nerfing monks is percisely what this thread is about. Nerf the PPU. Players get harder. Fights rely more on skill. End of story.
Originally posted by kira wolf
I disagree mr. ninja.
Nerfing monks is percisely what this thread is about. Nerf the PPU. Players get harder. Fights rely more on skill. End of story. Well your both right. While I believe there is an imbalance for monks, the point of this thread was to challenge people to think outside the box and try fighting without a PPU.
Originally posted by Jest
My point is that our reliance on monks has made my server Pluto full of pussies
...And you damn right. There's a reason people respect me, respect you, respect some other PEs : because no matter what the hell was happening, we stayed on, and tryed to adapt. We didn't borg ourselves : We evolved with what we had, simply put.
I never had respect for 1337 PKar (10101010101 one one oenoenoenoenoeneoneoeneoneone ) because those punks will reliably flock to the most unbalanced class, kill people in gang instead of in a fucking duel, call anything the other people do that can foil their plan ( say... stealth ) a "pussifyed tactic for noobs". Notice that even if they don't have a ppu, they will not fight you without having some backup, like the spineless little punks they really are.
I spit in the face of those people, and DAMN right they are just a bunch of pussies.Least i die without blaming any reasons. In fact, accepting that i'm gonna get my ass kicked is usually the first step in the process of becoming someone that will kill his opponent, or die trying.
The PPU is not invincible. Jest is requesting people to stop using PPUs as bodyguards, ESPECIALLY if you can kill and win without one. That's the problem here, not that PPUs need nerfing or any shit like that. PPUs can be dealt with and killed with enough skill. But many people do not want to learn that skill and end up using 'tactics' (TL3 anyone?) and/or having a PPU around them to ensure victory.
EDIT: Damnit, Jest himself beat me to it. xD
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
make all monks hybrids ffs
i dont know how often i have to say it .. thats the best solution..
you make all monks hybrids again and then you can balance em SO FUCKING EASY
imo the whole monk situation is so fucked up
gah im sick of it
.cy
You know it, I know it, a bunch of other people know it. Why does KK not know it?
Make monks hybrid, ballance them with the other classes. Make higher level buffs override lower level buffs. Give spies some type of technological rez so the burden of life-giving can be spread out (street docs). Now no class is more important than the other, you can still rez people, but it will be harder to do so (and you wont end up killing the enemy 7-9 times and still lose to them).
I dunno, that just seems like a much more ballanced and fun game to me. But maybe I'm just crazy...
Edit:
PPUs can be dealt with and killed with enough skill. But many people do not want to learn that skill and end up using 'tactics' (TL3 anyone?) and/or having a PPU around them to ensure victory.
And this "skill" you speak of is... using an APU as a bodyguard against PPUs? Whoops?
Psychoninja
13-10-03, 20:49
If the ppu gets nerfed anymore, they might aswell be taken out of the game. They're too easy to kill now, and like I said there are only a handfull of PPUs who are pretty much impossible to kill.
I rarely pair up with a PPU in PP. I'm ussualy the one getting chased around. On a few occasions someone will come along and help me, but not often :P
Not every clan fights with only monks on Pluto, heck we had a fight without one on our side last night.
some monk Pked a member of our clan about 1/3 of his rank last night, so we possied up to go get him. 5 of us on a PE and a PPU. then a fallen angel tank jumped in to help them.
Sadly we lost
but we killed the PE 3 times, the FA tank twice and we shot the everlovin hell out of the PPU.
but guess what. 2 spies with rare weapons, a tank with a rare, and a PE with a rare couldnt touch the PPU after he buffed.
In fact he could still res with all of us shooting him.
but we fought hard and long before pulling out ;)
KramerTheWeird
13-10-03, 21:02
I'd sooner want the untstoppable hybrid back then to have to deal with all this monkacron bullshit that is going on now. It really ruins the fun out of this game.
heh and jest the APU prolly woulda come back solo...if the PPU hadnt been available....but why deliberatly gimp yourself...the PPU is the one who dropped something good....the APU just dropped his pants...the whole point that they went back was for the PPU's gear(I know this thread wasnt about that...but just fyi)
and if u want APU's to fight without a PPU give them the ability to TL 3 heal and shelter like every other class in the game...or take away the option for other classes to heal as well...or just deal with APU's with PPU's stapled to their ass...or make hybrids more viable
Spy<VS>Spy
13-10-03, 21:13
Originally posted by Jest
So here is my call to action to the people of Pluto. If you don't have a PPU online, hack that enemy op anyways. If you don't have a PPU with you, go pk people at an enemy HQ anyways. If you don't have a PPU, go fight people at the Pepper Park zone line anyways. Don't limit yourself to only having fun when a PPU is online. It's ok to lose, and you don't even have to whine about not having a PPU. I'm serious, try it this week. Let's not let Pluto turn into a server with no PvP skill.
well i do, and you know what...i die allot. i have concluded a few possiblitys on why that is.
1.) i am a spy.
2.) the enemy always has a ppu, and he has true sight sanctom and a knack for para spam from across the map.
3.) i suck.
4.) neocron lags, because i have to cross an ocean to connect to it.
5.) monks make my frame rate go down to 6 per second.
6.)all monks, are better then i am, skill wise, and aided by the above listed reasons.
[edit] deleted./... I dont wanna tlak about ingame crap on these forums and get the thread closed
The only real god like PPUs I have seen are capped ones. I have seen fights where PPUs were on support to one side (and had the advantage) but dropped and they all died.
Fully buffed and HH and HHS running I was dropped in 4 seconds in Tech Haven the other day (which is impressive because normally I can withstand 5 unco-ordinated people). They didn't use poison or anti-buff on either.
Using a PPU as an unnessary bodyguard is one thing, but the myth that PPUs are gods is also what is stopping people.
Probably one way to ween people off PPUs is to lower their ability to transfer thier godlike powers to others a bit more.
Originally posted by Zokk
You know it, I know it, a bunch of other people know it. Why does KK not know it?
Make monks hybrid, ballance them with the other classes. Make higher level buffs override lower level buffs. Give spies some type of technological rez so the burden of life-giving can be spread out (street docs). Now no class is more important than the other, you can still rez people, but it will be harder to do so (and you wont end up killing the enemy 7-9 times and still lose to them).
I dunno, that just seems like a much more ballanced and fun game to me. But maybe I'm just crazy...
no you're not crazy :)
you're one of the very few ppl in this forum that dont hate ;)
thats exactly what i mean... i really get sick of this pure monk crap =/
and i know KK wont ever balance em.. they simply cant.. monks are such a complex class .. now they are even 2 kinds of...oh no.. they wont
dude start a thread asking for it.. my english is too bad to argue about it sadly =/
but i'll support ya :p
.cy
KramerTheWeird
13-10-03, 21:47
here's a nice outpost scenario:
"omg! clan X took our op!.. do we have ppu's?"
"yes we do, but we dont' have any apu's!"
"then how are we going to kill their ppu's? we mightaswell not fight!"
"you're right, let's let them take it and ninja hack it later!"
or another:
"omg! clan X took our op!.. do we have ppu's?"
"no"
"oh well, fucking monkacron!"
Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
here's a nice outpost scenario:
"omg! clan X took our op!.. do we have ppu's?"
"yes we do, but we dont' have any apu's!"
"then how are we going to kill their ppu's? we mightaswell not fight!"
"you're right, let's let them take it and ninja hack it later!"
or another:
"omg! clan X took out op!.. do we have ppu's?"
"no"
"oh well, fucking monkacron!"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
and now tell me this was the same back then when there were around 5 uber hybrids on pluto :o :p
.cy
KramerTheWeird
13-10-03, 21:52
Nope, people weren't presented with impossibilities when it came to hybrids, at the most it was in one on one encounters that people feared them. Some were damn good and coudl take on 4-5, but as a stealthing PE I can take on an entire team, granted they don't paraspam me.
I have a few points.
I`ve said this before. Because we have two pure ways of monk power I think either of them has to be worth(worth in as:I`ve been lvling this mofo for ages now I want to get paid worth) going pure for. I believe you can slightly nerf the ppu and they still would have a a purpouse in battle. The effect of ppus on a team wouldnt be as big as it is now, but it would be enough to tilt the battle in your favour anyways wouldnt it. Would anyone want to play them at that state though?
Rezzing. Its to high rof on that spell. Rezzing should be something that you need alot of time or recovery time for. Not something you can do in the middle of a battle while 5 enemies are shooting at you.
I`m not any good pvp I die,die,die,die, get a kill and die some more. One reason I feel I need a ppu is because I cant stand standing in plaza for 2 hours trying to get my mc5 implantet.(ok perhaps not 2 hours, but its a long wait) and then it loose 8% quality or something like that.
Some people say that without ppu fights will be over too quick, no fun etc etc. I think this is wrong. Tactics would just change according to the playingfield. If we could get more dynamic fights I would be a blast. Now its almost like two walls banging on each other and the first who pull down the blue brick wins. Neocron states its fps. I feel much of this is lost in fights with ppu.
I`m not saying that removing ppus is the solution, but I do think this game would be alot more fun without such strong ppu presence. It would bring back some nerve and excitement. Neocron is the only game that really gets my hart pounding and hands shaking. Never gotten that in another game. I only get this in non ppu fights.
Whiety Bulger
13-10-03, 22:41
Originally posted by kira wolf
PPU's can only target buff themselves = problem solved.
Dude wut are u smoken PPU's cant attack so wut would they do stand ifront of the rest of the group and act aas a human shield.
ghandisfury
13-10-03, 22:41
Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
I'd sooner want the untstoppable hybrid back then to have to deal with all this monkacron bullshit that is going on now. It really ruins the fun out of this game.
Well said....and I'm a monk.
yeah i wouldnt mind being a god like hybrid ....rather than a paper skinned APU
Whiety Bulger
13-10-03, 22:44
I prefer Tankocron to
http://80.7.126.48/images/Skin/neocron.jpg
Cryotchekk
13-10-03, 22:45
quote from clan chat:
person 1 : lets take gab!
person 2 : we got the ppu's?
Mr Friendly
13-10-03, 22:49
imo, to fix the "monkocron", make the other classes stronger
...enough to kind of be an "apu" in their own way :p
also, the sounds, like guns fired sound effects, make em better =)
_____________________________________________________
neway, yeah, coming from me, a ppu, i WANT the parashock gone from the ppus. the only parashock should be the turrets & the other classes. no fixing of the % stun would have to be done & even some ppus would reroll to another class :\
Rather then 'nerfing' think of it another way.
War brings around new technology and tactics.
I already believe Spies can handle PPUs (and APUs) ok.
The real whine is the tanks. So how about new tank PA, that lowers thier stats slightly but offers insane amount of protection against PSI attacks. Make APU/PPU armor types too for the tanks.
nonamebrandeggs
13-10-03, 22:58
Not all of us have become pussies :rolleyes:, how often do you see me with a monk up my ass?
Mr Friendly
13-10-03, 23:08
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Not all of us have become pussies :rolleyes:, how often do you see me with a monk up my ass?
we're mostly talkin bout how OPwars arent fought anymore unless u have "enough" ppus online :\
and how most of everyone has rerolled to become a monk...thus "monkocron"
nonamebrandeggs
13-10-03, 23:12
Tally ho then
Clownst0pper
13-10-03, 23:23
Jest, I see where your comming from, I am 120% in agreement, To the point where I dont need a PPU, I never really ask for one. I like having them! no doubt, I dont think anyone doesnt, But Ive had too many occasions during my NC lifespan where I KNOW for a fact, You dont need PPU's to win large scale OP wars.
On the other side of the coin, When I do PK/PVP the moment I am parashocked in PP/MB/TG I leave. The sheer dullness of fighting people when a PPU is around is Beyond a joke. And yes, I have a Capped PPU. To the point where I refuse to use his holy paralysis anymore as I know how annoying it is when im reduced to a snail.
And yes, There has on saturn become a sense of inadequacy as far as class str's are concerned. A more recent event Is myself (Kreole) and (Ethereal) Were both Skilled players. Combined (APU/PPU) we raped probably between 10-15 101st with no worry what so ever. Hand it to them 101st showed up many times, trying to kill us both. Sadly, It shows the importance and design fault behind the monk class.
Im sure many other Private eyes/Tanks/Spys agree with me, That when they see a PPU, there excitement for PKing or PVPing starts to dwindle...
I think it is a case of Power for most people. The sheer abundance of Monks is clearly because of there power. Great for farming cash, Great for Ganking, Great for PVP, AND YOU ARE NEEDED. Strap a PPU to an APU's ass and there unstoppable..a marriage made in heaven you might think..Well, lets see KK have there way, reduce the range, dmg, and accuracy, we might see less with Tanks and Spys returning to our servers.
Good Thread Jest. ;)
Mr Friendly
13-10-03, 23:40
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Well said....and I'm a monk.
yeah, come to think of it, hybrids WERE killable, & now that soo many ppus have come out & apus are finally actually using the antishield & antibuff.........hyrbids will be a sinch to pure apus ;p
but if anything, id say ppus or anyone WITH ppu skill, should only be able to heal, but not buff others............but then again, that would take away the godlike apus, thus the apu + ppu = supreme etc
but then again, thnx to the kami chip, i tihnk ive found a way for a hybrid to be reborn :p
apu ppu teams are not unstoppable....one single person wouldnt be able to drop either...but a coordinated team of 2 could kill the APU and and at least bother the PPU...while keeping the APU down....if APU and PPU are on voice coms though you gonna have a hell of a time
Mr Friendly
13-10-03, 23:51
never said they were unstoppable. they're just basically made for each other. :p
cdm...where have u been anyway :P i need my PPU support :P
[edit]
Destroy all of that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish. In nomine patrie, et fili, et spiritu sancti.
is that from boondock saints?(awesome flick btw)
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Tally ho then
I sometimes buff you eggs, does that mean im your buff bitch now?
Shadow Dancer
14-10-03, 01:51
Jest tone your ego down, jesus. :rolleyes:
I and many others have played without a ppu many times. But ppus are like freezer weapons. If you don't have one and your enemy does, you're fucked.
nonamebrandeggs
14-10-03, 01:53
Originally posted by Duder
I sometimes buff you eggs, does that mean im your buff bitch now?
PEs = Point and Click
Spy<VS>Spy
14-10-03, 02:39
yeah but eggs your a spy...use spy need a monk hovering over our ass like a hole in the head, we cloak, climb on top of a mountain and drop em before the para spam reaches us.
Mr Friendly
14-10-03, 02:41
Originally posted by joran420
"Destroy all of that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish. In nomine patrie, et fili, et spiritu sancti."
- is that from boondock saints?(awesome flick btw)
well jah, of course :p awesome movie, best imo....*hint**hint* to everyone :p
OH, and yeah, my account expired last sunday, sent in the cash friday, so im just waitin for it to reactivate :)
(plz no flaming for "rofl u dont use [r3|)i7 [4r|) !? rofllmao" or neething :)
nonamebrandeggs
14-10-03, 02:41
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
yeah but eggs your a spy...use spy need a monk hovering over our ass like a hole in the head, we cloak, climb on top of a mountain and drop em before the para spam reaches us.
Nah thats you :p, my style is play like a tank stuck in a skinnty spies body ^_^.
i buff monks with my tank just to make them feel sorry for themselves cos they cant buff anymore:p
Well all monks Hybrid is not possible anymore and you know that. But there are other things how KK could change the current situation. Nerf the foreign casts(maybe 25% less effect). No class will cry cause you stole them something and all other classes would have more sense especially in OP fights.
Sure PPUs will still be needed in OP wars(they always were) but they wouldnt be that important anymore like they are atm. Maybe KK have to tweek the BossMobs a little bit then cause it will be harder, but maybe its even good if its harder then hehe.
I think this is the best solution without using the nerfhammer and change too much at once.
(Also they should change the range of APU spells abit or at least make the damage rangedependant and make the parashock cast more like the Antishield at least more mana, less freq.)
:angel:
Mr Friendly
14-10-03, 04:14
Originally posted by mehirc
Well all monks Hybrid is not possible anymore and you know that.
.......what is it??....................look harder.... :D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Jest tone your ego down, jesus. :rolleyes:
I and many others have played without a ppu many times. But ppus are like freezer weapons. If you don't have one and your enemy does, you're fucked. Shad my ego has absolutely nothing to do with it. I make no claims to be a great player. I'd be lucky to make it in the top 5 PEs on Pluto if even that. I lose often. All of these points have absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
Plain and simple the reliance on PPUs has made every one soft. Where does my ego factor into that equation? Oh wait, it doesn't. For example notice in this thread where the APU and PPU attacked me. I truly believe the APU could have beaten me on his own. (Notice, more skilled than me). But as I said earlier I'm not sure if he would have even risked it without a PPU. Maybe he would have. Obviously a PPU is better than no PPU so he wouldn't have turned the assistance down or anything. I'm trying to encourage the server to have the balls to back up the skill they forgot they had.
I know you have some issues against Private Eyes but just because I'm one doesn't mean I'm toting my skill around and saying I can own every one on the server or anything. And I certainly didn't have "Greatest PE ever" as my occupation. ;)
Shadow Dancer
14-10-03, 07:50
Originally posted by Jest
Obviously a PPU is better than no PPU so he wouldn't have turned the assistance down or anything. I'm trying to encourage the server to have the balls to back up the skill they forgot they had.
The point i was trying to make is that alot of people bring ppus to pk or kill because they know there's a very good chance of their opponents having one or bringing one. As much as I love to fight alone, my "fun" usually ends when the enemy ppu comes.
And about the ego, reread your first post thx.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And about the ego, reread your first post thx. Why, because I said people on Pluto are becoming pussies who don't even raise their weapon unless they have a PPU buffing them?
I know you said it was not a nerf thread. One of the big reasons for all the APU's though, is to counter PPU Paraspam. Take Paraspam away, an I think it will have an adverse effect on Monkacron.
IMHO the hybrid split caused all this. Monks were forced to make a choice between APU and PPU, greatly increasing the PPU population.
(excluding the few pure PPU's that were PPU already).
The monk nerf caused too much players to roll a PPU char. PPU's are not too strong or overpowered, there are just (too) many, colouring the perception about PPU's.
Now everyone and his brother has access to or is a PPU. The only way this will change at all is somekind of nerf (or boost for that matter) that will make the PPU useless.
...and I doubt anyone would like that. Maybe the destruction of pures and reintroduction of hybrid monks will fix things. Monks will spend more time solo lvling again (can't effectively now, few exceptions) and spend less time unbalancing PvP...
I also highly doubt that nerfing Holy Para will change anything at all. Just thing about when they nerfed freezers. PPL adapted. PPU's will still be very usefull as buff/rez drones.
When hybrids existed there was the incidental bitch and whine on the boards but i have never seen so much bitching and whining on the boards about monks in general and PPU in particular then now. This only adds up to the reintroduction of hybrids being a good thing.
Maybe some peeps would go back to playing tanks again...
..but what do I know.. :)
Original monk
14-10-03, 08:56
this is the shit ya get if you force monks to go PURE :)
first they go nerfing the hybrids to dead (the only superfun class playing, and no i dont mean necesarry PvP wise) and then theres trouble because the pure monks need eachoter, the apu needs the ppu for he's ULTRAheals/buffs and the ppu needs the apu to kill some people...
shitgame :/ <- didnt mean that but still im a bit pissed off for the hybridnerf, <- now a few months ago. I was a hybrid from beta4 on, i miss being a hybrid :/ i could use a catharsis sanctum and a poisonbeam togheter, as highest spells, i loved it, now its all fucked up and all i do is buff people, paralyse people and heal people ...
Originally posted by ronaz
IMHO the hybrid split caused all this. Monks were forced to make a choice between APU and PPU, greatly increasing the PPU population.
(excluding the few pure PPU's that were PPU already).
The monk nerf caused too much players to roll a PPU char. PPU's are not too strong or overpowered, there are just (too) many, colouring the perception about PPU's.
Now everyone and his brother has access to or is a PPU. The only way this will change at all is somekind of nerf (or boost for that matter) that will make the PPU useless.
...and I doubt anyone would like that. Maybe the destruction of pures and reintroduction of hybrid monks will fix things. Monks will spend more time solo lvling again (can't effectively now, few exceptions) and spend less time unbalancing PvP...
I also highly doubt that nerfing Holy Para will change anything at all. Just thing about when they nerfed freezers. PPL adapted. PPU's will still be very usefull as buff/rez drones.
When hybrids existed there was the incidental bitch and whine on the boards but i have never seen so much bitching and whining on the boards about monks in general and PPU in particular then now. This only adds up to the reintroduction of hybrids being a good thing.
Maybe some peeps would go back to playing tanks again...
..but what do I know.. :)
Well thank all the people that complained about hybrids being to strong, they are the ones runing this game people need to shut up......
/rant off
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
make all monks hybrids ffs
i dont know how often i have to say it .. thats the best solution..
you make all monks hybrids again and then you can balance em SO FUCKING EASY
imo the whole monk situation is so fucked up
gah im sick of it
.cy
I agree 100 %!
Oh... Hybrids were sooooo powerful....
All the whiner on the boards wanted the monks to go pure.
Now deal with the situation as it is.
No other class was nerfed that much.
Originally posted by Sobi
Oh... Hybrids were sooooo powerful....
All the whiner on the boards wanted the monks to go pure.
Now deal with the situation as it is.
No other class was nerfed that much.
no other class had the best offence and best defence in the game :rolleyes:
I think Paraspam Does make a huge difrence. What is the point, in being a Tank, or anything other than a Monk. If you are glued to the ground, every time you want to fight. Atm the only way to combat the power of a PPU, is to bring more PPU's and a few APU's with you. Anything else is pointless. I think get rid of freezer weapons of any kind. You will see more peaple playing other chars again.
Originally posted by Berzerker
I think Paraspam Does make a huge difrence. What is the point, in being a Tank, or anything other than a Monk. If you are glued to the ground, every time you want to fight. Atm the only way to combat the power of a PPU, is to bring more PPU's and a few APU's with you. Anything else is pointless. I think get rid of freezer weapons of any kind. You will see more peaple playing other chars again.
true enough; get rid of para/shockers and we can all be happy with our other chars.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
no other class had the best offence and best defence in the game :rolleyes:
fenix there were around 5 real uber hybrids on pluto...:rolleyes:
and what do we have now ? ppus an apus are shit easy to setup and play... ( ok ppu is a bit harder but a hybrid was 10 x harder )
now every fool can make an unkillable ppu and his noobish friend goes apu.. bam you have an uber team..
i cant remember anything like this back then :
player a : lets go take bla blah op !
player b : we dont have any hybrids !
player a : oh shit !
and today its like this everyday with the pure gimps
.cy
Just watch the banter between clans after an op war. The excuse for losing is that they had less PPUs, EVERY TIME.
Have to agree with jests orignial post except for this line. The reality is its not an excuse its a fact, OP wars revolve around monks at the minute with PPUs just edging out APUs.
An APU can do more damage than a tank at a greater range with perfect accuracy, with a PPU stuck up his ass an APU is pretty much invunerable.
When it comes down to it OP wars have become a Monk 'arms race' with numbers as important as the quality of the monk.
Monk-o-cron and shitty FPS are the 2 main reasons im quite inactive past 2 weeks
Originally posted by Mr Friendly
.......what is it??....................look harder.... :D
Not sure what you want to tell me, please try again O_o
Originally posted by Sobi
Oh... Hybrids were sooooo powerful....
All the whiner on the boards wanted the monks to go pure.
Now deal with the situation as it is.
No other class was nerfed that much.
Wrong, KK wanted the pures from the beginning and you can read it in the teamrole explanation in one of the very early patchnotes. They just were not able to find a good solution fast enough, so hybrid was the only reasonable way to play a monk but it was too powerful.
I agree that Hybrids were by far too powerful.
But how many really overpowered Hybrids have existed. Not that much. Just look at the Monk rush that came after the nerf. Now there are sooo many APU+PPU Combos that their fire power is much more leathal than compared to the Hybrid one.
I just wanted to point out that it was obvious this would come.
First the whines about the Hybrids, now the whines about the apus and ppus.
@mehirc
...and KK also wants the APU to be the best dmg dealer. Of course he will always be escorted by a ppu since he doesnt even have a tl 3 heal now.
Damn it... it was so funny to play a Hybrid... ;((
yea i remember the hybrid days-spent all early retail trying to kill em - anytime u got some damage on em - they shocked u, ran away, healed - and it started over - skill?
Muumi - once - against me megaman and i think brumm (all tanks), we chased and chased and chased while he laughed - U got glued to the floor just as badly from a hybrid as u do now from a ppu. Then they got poison - so even if u killed em u still died - thats when i stopped playing.
U would never be able to balance em only perhaps with a cloak similar to a kami chip.
BTw- ff just for fun tried to defend tyron the other day with 2 apus and a PE - guess how long it lasted?
Hi,
how about the fun?
I really dont think its fun to make OP wars with just monks.
Whats your ideal idea of a "good" OP war?
Another thing: As far as I remember the class descriptions, APUs and PPU were meant as support class, it was not meant that a good team or army should mainly consist of monks.
So from my sight monks still didnt find their niche yet.
I am playing a monk too, and I really hate the monk balancing that has been done for nearly a year now.
Nevertheless, IMO it still not finished.
Hmm APU/PPU combo.
How about when a PPU casts a passive spell it drains the mana from the target first then from the PPU (or a % of).
For non-monkies this wouldn't be an issue for buffing/healing but for APU it means they have to main thier mana pool a lot more if they are being protected by a PPU.
The drain only takes effect if the spell actually works though. To stop spell spamming to drain an APU.
Then lower PPU buffs on other players that can't support the mana request of the spell (offset based on PSI skill so high level PSI aren't effected).
So lets say a capped tank puts all thier PSI into PSI power, they will recieve pre-PPU nerf shield effects (at the cost of not being able to cast TL3).
i say bring the hybrids back and remove damage boost and parashock.
at least tankocron was more fun, if it was tankocron now, at least other classes would have a chance against the tank, but with all these apus with there ppus strapped to them just make the game boring.
id happily duel 3 tanks at once than take on a ppu/apu combo.
at least when there was hybrids the game was 90% monkeys, though i have noticed a few people who went monks are now using there main char more.
but dont think KK are gonna change it now.
if only we knew what we were gonna get by bitching about hybrids we might not of complained so much:rolleyes:
Well I dont think that a mana drain from the target that is getting the boost will solve a problem.
"So lets say a capped tank puts all thier PSI into PSI power, they will recieve pre-PPU nerf shield effects (at the cost of not being able to cast TL3)"
...that will bring even more ppu monk along...
because ALL clases will need a ppu as no one would be able to cast a single spell anymore. Dont think this is a solution.
Just think of MC5... lol... never ever a TP again. But this is another topic not maching this threat.
I think the only solution is to nerf or remove the Holy Para-glue.
This spell is loved by all ppus, but no spell is more hated by other classes.
Originally posted by zonk
Monk-o-cron and shitty FPS are the 2 main reasons im quite inactive past 2 weeks
Yeh Same here with most of our clan. Atm I would rather play CS or AA. an THats wut i'm doing mostly now. An Jedi Academy.
I have cancelled for now along with most of my budies. Not sayin I'v quit, I will take a look at things at next pay cycle and see if anythin has changed.
Hybrid is still fun :)
But the thing that is really boring now, is the masses of pures especially in OP fights cause they are simply too effective. A few weeks ago i thought, good that the monk problem does only exist on Jupiter and other servers, but now it reached Pluto as well.
Here is my wishlist :p
Nerf foreign casts, shelter, deflector, heal (at least 25% less effect)
Make damage of APUs rangedependant(or even cut range and dmg)
Modify parashock(more mana, less freq and range)
make 3 DB casts = one current DB cast (50%->75%->100%)
If you dont like it, please ignore it :cool:
Originally posted by mehirc
Hybrid is still fun :)
But the thing that is really boring now, is the masses of pures especially in OP fights cause they are simply too effective. A few weeks ago i thought, good that the monk problem does only exist on Jupiter and other servers, but now it reached Pluto as well.
Here is my wishlist :p
Nerf foreign casts, shelter, deflector, heal (at least 25% less effect)
Make damage of APUs rangedependant(or even cut range and dmg)
Modify parashock(more mana, less freq and range)
make 3 DB casts = one current DB cast (50%->75%->100%)
If you dont like it, please ignore it :cool:
Yes, as a former Tangent i can say "Trust in guns not in spells" :-).
Originally posted by Sobi
I think the only solution is to nerf or remove the Holy Para-glue.
This spell is loved by all ppus, but no spell is more hated by other classes.
Well i hate holy antibuff so nerf nerf ahh na y reduce the game even more and instead of nerfing everything y can't we boost other classes/weapons
Personally as a pure ppu who has always been a ppu who sees people perpetually moaning about this class because we are overpowered. The fact is these chars are a bitch to lvl. Not being able to get xp ourselves so our reward for this painful lvling process and the inability to form any offence that does more than 50 dmg to a Enemy we are relatively hard to kill. If u make ppu's as flimmsy as spy's or tanks then they will die out and then all fites op battles last 10 seconds total.
My clan were called to an op defence last night, hired by FA defending against TG. We were a fairly mixed bunch, tanks, PE's and a couple of monks. We'd just got there and were tooling up. Suddenly 10000000000 monks and one tank (respect to the tank!) turn up and procede to uterly pwn us! There were monks everywhere!!! I mean balance??? KK wouldn't know balance if it was sat on their keyboards!!! It kind of makes the other classes a bit pointless tbh, what's the point in bringing anything other than a monk to an op war? Your only going to be fighting against monks....
DjSkum (I will NOT roll a monk! Well not another one anyway ;-)
@Candaman
To make this clear... I love PPUs. For me they could stay as they are. Dont have any prop with that.
But Im afraid that all the whinig is going to bring another nerf from KKs side.
And before they reduce foreign casts like Shelter/Deflector/Heal again, they should do something with the Holy Paralize, as this spell seems to be the biggest issue about ppu and overpowered.
And to nerf PPUs until they are unusable is not the goal.
Im a high lvl ppu and I would love to be nerfed.. atleast holy para
Anyways on side note.. spys are kinda neat in one way.. on my apu i been laged killed by a silenthunter 2 times... had full shields on and wham i dropped dead.... didnt even notice my health decrease
Originally posted by deac
Im a high lvl ppu and I would love to be nerfed
if only all PPUs said that:D
Its not a nerf we look for and even i as a ppu get pissed off with holy para (even with holy cath) i'm sure with that removed it would be better i'd personally prefer the effects to be reduced to the sort of electic shocks u get off WB's or Maulers that at least allows movement and doesn't take two days to wear off.
The worst thing about monkacron is that when 5 PPUs and 5 APUs beat your 5 tanks and 5 PEs they DM you telling you how much you suck and how much they pwned you. :rolleyes:
QBs made the game dull, PKers made people angry, hybrids made everyone fed up, but PPUs are making people quit.
Originally posted by Scikar
QBs made the game dull, PKers made people angry, hybrids made everyone fed up, but PPUs are making people quit.
omg... the truth O_o it's just parashock... parashocks sucks, not because you cant run, or even walk, but because your get the kinda reflexes of stephen hawkins... you cant shoot shit all because you have to run across the whole wall of your room with your mouse to it to turn a 360 8|
Without a ppu all yuor mc5 chips would have come and gone you cannot blame people quitting on ppu's thats just stoopid. People quit because they think they can escape neocron but u can't muahhahaha but seriously populations aren't depleting because as many people that quit. We get twice as many people either adding accounts and starting for the first time and thats y kk are quite happy atm.
So what about that idea of PSI resistent armor? Imagine a new tank armor that is like sheet-metal against standard attacks, but tough as nails against para-spam and everything else monkish. You then have a monk-killer tank, whose sole job is to take out any/all monks as fast as possible.
1) monk-killer tanks would be highly vulnerable to other attack forms and so need team support,
2) enemies would try to exploit that vulnerability by focusing on killing the monk-killers as fast as possible,
3) in concert, standard tanks would engage selected enemies to kill them, and also engage other key enemies to take the heat off of their monk-killers,
4) monks do their thing as usual but are now at risk from monk-killers,
5) while spies and pe's take on any/all targets of opportunity as they do now.
The armor stats should make it possible to kill monks but not be invincible; i.e. a focused attack on a monk-killer by the a couple of non-psi enemies could kill the tank, but lack of that means that the monk is probably toast. Also, a focused attack by multiple monks on the monk-killer could also potentially kill the tank ... if they are fast enough. In many instances it would be a sacrifice play, where the tank takes out a pivotal ppu but then immediately falls dead ... but by killing the monk the battle now shifts to favor that team and so was a successful tactic.
Monks not a problem?, wear standard armor; too many enemy ppus?, switch to kamikaze monk-killer mode.
Make the color distinctive to make it stand out ... so monks go Oh Shit!!! when they see one or more of these coming at them ;)
Spook
I don't think Pluto is full of pussies at all, we've just adapted to how the game has changed. When you only have one or maybe two chars at most, you want to have fun with your character. For most people having fun is winning at op wars and/or other fights. To do so you need ppus to protect your team and apus to kill the enemy ppus. The only way you could get away with not having monks is if you were certain your enemy won't bring any monks aswell. Once a ppu arrives it's over unless you've got some monks hidden up your sleeve.
I'm not sure why ppl in this thread are saying ppu's aren't godlike and are killable. In all seriousness you can not kill a good ppu unless you have an apu to help. The really amazing ppu's can even survive when you do bring an apu. It takes two or three apu's to take them down. I've been tl 3 healed, I've been crap sheltered, those are only temporary setbacks. The heal barely even bothers me and you hafta be really lucky to stick a crap shelter on me. If you don't have any monks then you will need to bring an army of over 10 people to hope to take me down. I could see 20 people constantly shooting me might overcome my defenses. It would definitly make it tough for me to rebuff myself. The thing is though, I'm fairly speedy so at any given moment I'm not being shot by more then half of the enemies chasing me. Even better I can run between them and mess up their shots. If you bring a ppu you have a much better chance of taking me down. I will have to use Cath Sanct to counteract the ppu, but he will still slow me down. Yet still I would be extremely tough to overcome. Once you bring an apu though, then I'm sweating. When my shelter/deflector vanish and I'm bein shot by 10 people, I've got a second or two to recast or I'm dead. Bring more apus and I'm toast, theres no way to keep up with multiple debuffings.
This is the problem with ppu's, and why pvp in NC has turn to crap. PPU's defensive power is so far out of line that only an APU can cause them to die. This leaves the majority of players useless in a fight. Doesn't matter if you kill most of the enemies, the ppu will wander around and rez while your shots tickle him. Yet, if we weaken a PPU's defensive power then we effectively kill the class. PPU's are really tough to play, in order to support a team we need to be able to pay attention to the fight and how our team is doing, without having to constantly worry about our own health. If a Tank could do damage to me then I will be busy running away or dying, not helping my team. This is why APU's are so good at killing PPU's. If you can debuff a PPU who is focusing on his team, he might not notice his defenses vanish and then panick when he's suddenly taking massive dmg. Even if he doesn't die, you've succeded in taking the ppu's atttention away from his team. So the team is not receiving healing/buffs while the ppu is runnin around tryin to protect himself.
Something pretty drastic would hafta be done to fix ppu's. I mean start from scratch and think of how a healer class should be.
Clothing_Option
14-10-03, 18:09
Originally posted by Jest
So here is my call to action to the people of Pluto. If you don't have a PPU online, hack that enemy op anyways. If you don't have a PPU with you, go pk people at an enemy HQ anyways. If you don't have a PPU, go fight people at the Pepper Park zone line anyways. Don't limit yourself to only having fun when a PPU is online. It's ok to lose, and you don't even have to whine about not having a PPU. I'm serious, try it this week. Let's not let Pluto turn into a server with no PvP skill.
"So here is my call to action to the people of Pluto. If you don't have a PPU online, hack that enemy op anyways. "
You can do that but really just for fun of drawing ppl in for a quick fight but other than that YOUVE GOTTA BE FUCKING JOKING CAUSE YOUR GONNA DIE.
"If you don't have a PPU with you, go pk people at an enemy HQ anyways---OR PP"
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - homophobic flaming = automatic ban ]
Wondering if the problem could be alleviated somewhat by simply removing the resurrection spell. PPUs could buff and heal people like mad, but with none of this constant rezzing to bring back people who were defeated.
Been in several Op battles where we clobbered everyone but the ppu(s), but then the rezzing of deaders wore us down and WE were the ones defeated. [here you insert Tough Shit, and i insert It Sucks] Personally i dont really mind the ppu/apu situation as it is now ... its the bringing people back who LOST, damn it!!!, that really irks me. Instead, let them suffer the delays of synaptic impairment, reimplanting, and so forth ... during which time the battle could be won or lost without them. To my mind this might go a long way to help counter the apparent imbalance.
To go a step farther, make dying in fights even more meaningful ... increase the impairment time so that loss of life has even MORE impact on the outcome of a fight by directly shrinking the forces on the field. [and this from a guy who swears a blue streak over every second spent impaired trying to get back into a fight, because being a sniper means a rezzer usually isnt close by]
The job of a PPU then is to keep his/her people alive, and failing that the battle is lost.
So ... killed everyone but the enemy PPU(s)? No problem, you now have time to finish them off, and they won't be dancing around laughing at you and rezzing people.
Does this solve the PPU problem? No. But a skilled team with fewer or no PPUs themselves could now defeat a less skilled enemy.
By the way, i agree with you 100% Jest.
Spook
ghandisfury
14-10-03, 18:35
Originally posted by MegaCorp
Wondering if the problem could be alleviated somewhat by simply removing the resurrection spell. PPUs could buff and heal people like mad, but with none of this constant rezzing to bring back people who were defeated.
Been in several Op battles where we clobbered everyone but the ppu(s), but then the rezzing of deaders wore us down and WE were the ones defeated. [here you insert Tough Shit, and i insert It Sucks] Personally i dont really mind the ppu/apu situation as it is now ... its the bringing people back who LOST, damn it!!!, that really irks me. Instead, let them suffer the delays of synaptic impairment, reimplanting, and so forth ... during which time the battle could be won or lost without them. To my mind this might go a long way to help counter the apparent imbalance.
To go a step farther, make dying in fights even more meaningful ... increase the impairment time so that loss of life has even MORE impact on the outcome of a fight by directly shrinking the forces on the field. [and this from a guy who swears a blue streak over every second spent impaired trying to get back into a fight, because being a sniper means a rezzer usually isnt close by]
The job of a PPU then is to keep his/her people alive, and failing that the battle is lost.
So ... killed everyone but the enemy PPU(s)? No problem, you now have time to finish them off, and they won't be dancing around laughing at you and rezzing people.
Does this solve the PPU problem? No. But a skilled team with fewer or no PPUs themselves could now defeat a less skilled enemy.
By the way, i agree with you 100% Jest.
Spook
Dont forget how fun this would make MC5, and the caves...and leveling a noob. I think that the rezz spell should stay just as it is (because I don't believe there is a problem with it). However, I think there should be a "tool" of some sort given to the spie or PE to remove dead people from battle.
Yep, i was thinking strictly in regard to Op fights, not with leveling against mobs. So you have an interesting counter argument there. However, the tool you suggest would seem to enable my over all idea to work, as well as cover your concern.
And as for increasing the si delay, my thought there is it only occurs if you are killed in a war zone and are killed by a player character. "What about people just leveling in a war zone?" you ask, "Just one of the hazards of entering a war zone", i reply.
Spook
There is nothing you can suggest. I'm telling you, any idea you come up with will get flamed by the "We have no offense, therefore we should be invulnerable" squad. The only way anything is going to change is if KK decides it needs changing, and they will come up with something on their own. And I am willing to bet ppu monks are going to get shafted right up the ass because none of them are willing to accept that things need to change, and they aren't willing to discuss any ideas for changes.
Spy<VS>Spy
14-10-03, 18:45
we at legion used to define what we called, the running gank. you dont need one but sometimes in a team of 8 we have 1 passive. legion has ALWAYS been gut short on monks...its half way surpriseing we win half the battles we do. but then players like craven and o'conner spend allot of time profecting their method of attack and defence...
using the APC we trolled the waste lands as a single units, tanks a monk or two, and mostly pe's and spy's. roll up, scout a location, regroup and deploy if there is a target. mop up hack belts and move on.
other clans are adopting this constant mobile cycle of their forces when faced against unfriendly odds. it works wonders, and for a long time, it was pivital in our base captureing sceme, using a mobile platform like the APC if it got to hot we didnt para spam and rez, we jumped into the APC, used its armor and speed to our adventage.
those days where stolen from us though, much like most of our OP battles needing 3 hackers. being a small clan to fight the good fight crawled to a grinding halt.
its mostly a numbers game, frankly, its not one of the things i enjoy about neocron, and its dissapointing because in the past it was one of the most pivitable aspec to the game which held my interest.
Sadly though, while me and a few of my clan might stick around, there is no going back. everyone is tired, people here think i'm negitive towards the game, they havnt been on our team speak. i remember nights where we were 20-30 strong, comprimised of 8 tanks, 6 droners and 4 passive monks. those where good battles, we used allot of neocrons versitility in combat...where taking a base ment you gathered and mounted a counter assualt.
its a different world in monkacron.
no, i dont think the balls on the pluto server has been lost, its the soul behind the combat...the sheer desire to rip shit up...not worrying about you dumb MC5 chip falling out, or waiting for monk back up...
not that i want to go back to the hybrid monk days, that was fucking dumb, if you people dont remember that of all things...well, i think you all need a little wake up call.
the problem is...Monks do it all...and they do it better. your cursed soul wont pound through a monks shields like a holy lightening does. and your shitty smurf armor wont protect you against shit, nor will your resists if you can even move with weapon out and parashocked...
however thats the problem with KK....they change to little, to slowly...they tinker with a class, and they just dont see. they just dont understand adversity.
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
"So here is my call to action to the people of Pluto. If you don't have a PPU online, hack that enemy op anyways. "
You can do that but really just for fun of drawing ppl in for a quick fight but other than that YOUVE GOTTA BE FUCKING JOKING CAUSE YOUR GONNA DIE.
Yes CO, you will die, but you know what? You might learn something in that fight instead of relying on your monks. And you know what? You might learn something the second time. And you know what? You might just learn enough to pull off a victory the next time. There is more to the game than the 4 classes. Use vehicles, use turrets, use strategy. Use your spies sniping abilities. Use your PEs hit and run abilities. Remember there is more to your Gentank than his CS. I know how vital PPUs are to op warfare. Trust me I know. I'm not ignorant at how hard it would be to win a battle without a PPU. But it's not impossible. The point of this thread was to encourage you to shoot for more than just waiting on your PPU.
And I think Spy has a really good post. Pluto has lost the soul of its combat. When people are worried about their Mc5 chip popping out and crap like that, they won't ever risk dying. Do me a favor, next time your Mc5 chip comes out, leave it out for a week. Go do something fun in the game without worrying about losing 5% of your precious implant.
If you don't think standing in Plaza 1 sexing everyone who walks by, waiting for your PPU to come online so you can go have fun without an implant coming out isn't lame, then tell what is it?
We have lost something in Op fights alright. I too have played this game since release, and been in a heck of a lot of fights. Seems to me that good teams could often overcome larger numbers, just by having some combination of skill and raw determination. Nowadays, thats all moot. Because of the sheer power of the PPU to keep a team buffed/healed/rezzed. Sure, we still have fun fights now and then, but all too often it ends (for me at least) in frustration. Yes, i am also frustrated when i see that we won just because of our own PPUs (honest).
Dunno what can really be done about it. KK has been trying for a year now to balance monk skills and all we have seen is one extreme after another. They are trying, but it is hard to do. For every 5 people there are 15 ideas on the RIGHT way to fix things. And when they side with popular opinion, all too often that popular opinion tends to be biased or simply wrong.
The only reason i am still in this game is because of the Op fights and the comradery (with friend and foe alike), but the outcome of fights has been departing the realm of skills and ingenuity, and for me thats not fun.
For some people, they roleplay this as real war, where any/all measures are appropriate for defeating the enemy. Others, such as myself, roleplay it as a war but with gamer esthetics wherein roughly equal sides are desireable to have a good fight. To that end, in the "old days" (lol) i would contact my opposite number in an enemy clan and we would roughly balance the numbers for a fight; not necessarilly equal, but close enough to be fun. It worked real well and we had wonderful battles, win or lose. Perhaps - and this will strike some of you as a pansy-assed idea - perhaps we should return to that, with regard to PPUs.
"Hiya, Carinth, wanna fight? We got 2 PPUs online but one has to log, so only do 1 pls. We'll hit Gravis in 30 minutes with a full team plus a couple friends from TGM. cya.".
Spook
Don't eliminate the rez just make it uncastable while taking fire (any fire or maybe a certain amount). This would allow people a chance to implement more stratagies such as; "Killed the PE" "oh shit he's gonna get rezzed" "ok keep fire on the ppu while he tries to rez" "ok kill the tank" and so on.... I dont think that is a very big nerf but i do believe it would help the situation. they already decreased the percentage of buff values for casting on other players. Also remove the damage from the Holy Paralysis, the shock is fine but c'mon, i should not be able to be killed by a spamming ppu.
you can cast an anti buff faster than a monk can cast a res for the most part
Yeah, I hate people using PPUs to Pk, and the only way to beat the is to use another PPU who can help you beat them because of their PPU, I'd rather have non
damn reading this has reminded me how much i miss my hybrid
taking out 5+ fully capped players solo is quite fun
/edit point and click:lol:
Originally posted by Carinth
I don't think Pluto is full of pussies at all, we've just adapted to how the game has changed. When you only have one or maybe two chars at most, you want to have fun with your character. For most people having fun is winning at op wars and/or other fights. To do so you need ppus to protect your team and apus to kill the enemy ppus. The only way you could get away with not having monks is if you were certain your enemy won't bring any monks aswell. Once a ppu arrives it's over unless you've got some monks hidden up your sleeve.
I'm not sure why ppl in this thread are saying ppu's aren't godlike and are killable. In all seriousness you can not kill a good ppu unless you have an apu to help. The really amazing ppu's can even survive when you do bring an apu. It takes two or three apu's to take them down. I've been tl 3 healed, I've been crap sheltered, those are only temporary setbacks. The heal barely even bothers me and you hafta be really lucky to stick a crap shelter on me. If you don't have any monks then you will need to bring an army of over 10 people to hope to take me down. I could see 20 people constantly shooting me might overcome my defenses. It would definitly make it tough for me to rebuff myself. The thing is though, I'm fairly speedy so at any given moment I'm not being shot by more then half of the enemies chasing me. Even better I can run between them and mess up their shots. If you bring a ppu you have a much better chance of taking me down. I will have to use Cath Sanct to counteract the ppu, but he will still slow me down. Yet still I would be extremely tough to overcome. Once you bring an apu though, then I'm sweating. When my shelter/deflector vanish and I'm bein shot by 10 people, I've got a second or two to recast or I'm dead. Bring more apus and I'm toast, theres no way to keep up with multiple debuffings.
This is the problem with ppu's, and why pvp in NC has turn to crap. PPU's defensive power is so far out of line that only an APU can cause them to die. This leaves the majority of players useless in a fight. Doesn't matter if you kill most of the enemies, the ppu will wander around and rez while your shots tickle him. Yet, if we weaken a PPU's defensive power then we effectively kill the class. PPU's are really tough to play, in order to support a team we need to be able to pay attention to the fight and how our team is doing, without having to constantly worry about our own health. If a Tank could do damage to me then I will be busy running away or dying, not helping my team. This is why APU's are so good at killing PPU's. If you can debuff a PPU who is focusing on his team, he might not notice his defenses vanish and then panick when he's suddenly taking massive dmg. Even if he doesn't die, you've succeded in taking the ppu's atttention away from his team. So the team is not receiving healing/buffs while the ppu is runnin around tryin to protect himself.
Something pretty drastic would hafta be done to fix ppu's. I mean start from scratch and think of how a healer class should be.
yes this is how it works... and just add 3-4 more ppus to the mix and they can run away and then sneak rezz while the other team try to kill one of the ppus...
Only good use for tanks today is aoe spamming and that confuses the ppus and make em forget shields on thier team... after that the apus can just run in and mop up.
Ok lemme give u guys my story.
Since my main char has been a PPU for quite some time now (6 months or more) i know what im talking about.
There are 2 kind of PPU's for me, of which 1 has to go to bring some kind of (and maybe THE) needed balance.
- Offensive PPU
- Defensive PPU
Both PPU's have the same role in front of a battle, namely boosting and shielding everyone.
Lemme explain the difference between them, what comes visible during a fight:
- Offensive PPU, runs with the offence towards the enemy, parashocking and dmg boosting everyone, ressurecting the ones who died in the frontline.
- Defensive PPU, stays in background, giving everyone new shields/buffs/heals.
If there are enough PPU's in battles, these tasks can be given to different PPU's and THEN, only then the biggest force in OP wars is in the hands of the PPU's.
So my point of view is that one of these kinds of PPU activities has to go. A forge is undoable, since that one is already present when there are less PPU's available.
The options that are available and viable in my point of view:
- Remove Parashock in PvP
- Remove/nerf damageboost in PvP
- Make (high level) shields self-cast only
Next options need some more thought:
- Make it possible for force/pierce weapons to fragment corpses so that they cant be ressurected (needs serious thought though).
- Nerf ressurection spell.
Else then the above i find it insane that good PPU's are only fought by holy anti-buff (need for APU) or the semi-lame tl3 heal and other low lvl shields.
If nothing happends nothing attracts me back to playing mah PPU imo. Even the interest of playing mah other chars is gone atm (sorry Templars :( )
Zonk_psi
Zonk_barter
ZonK
Zonk_bitchass
Saturn
Dribble Joy
15-10-03, 13:10
Originally posted by zonk
- Remove Parashock in PvP
- Remove/nerf damageboost in PvP
- Make (high level) shields self-cast only
Next options need some more thought:
- Make it possible for force/pierce weapons to fragment corpses so that they cant be ressurected (needs serious thought though).
- Nerf ressurection spell.
I like.
What about heals? nerf healing on others?
Holy heal is the hidden destroyer of OP fights.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I like.
What about heals? nerf healing on others?
Holy heal is the hidden destroyer of OP fights.
hm yes they only cut down shelter&deflector but not the heal casted on others. That would be worth a try :)
I forgot to say and that is my awnser to ur opinion mehirc, the thing i enjoyed the most during OP wars is running with the offence but not even touch the enemies but support ur teammates (that is after all the role of a ppu, a supprter-role)
Nottin beats the fun of having a PU that can heal/shield others while being in a battle. Screw the PPU-in-the-background, screw the paraspam-dmgboostin-PPU.
Maybe wipe out group shields :confused:
(i personally hate using group shields, but thats irrelevant imo)
Lisa Davitt
15-10-03, 20:16
Originally posted by El Barto
Yeah, I hate people using PPUs to Pk, and the only way to beat the is to use another PPU who can help you beat them because of their PPU, I'd rather have non
Or
Originally posted by kira wolf
AND how do you take out the invincible PPU? With an APU. Oh wait.. thats even more monks. Sigh. Good thinkin' KK.
So we still have the same problem. Monkacron :(
Originally posted by joran420
you can cast an anti buff faster than a monk can cast a res for the most part
Still same problem, you need Monks to do that. And the problem is each day are more monks around.
Originally posted by Carinth
Something pretty drastic would hafta be done to fix ppu's. I mean start from scratch and think of how a healer class should be.
Originally posted by MegaCorp
Wondering if the problem could be alleviated somewhat by simply removing the resurrection spell. PPUs could buff and heal people like mad, but with none of this constant rezzing to bring back people who were defeated.
Why not just make it more Psi poll consuming, make it take longer to be effective, give the rezzed SI, make the PPU unable to rezz while under attack?
IMO the trouble with ppus is not their ability to support other classes, it's the total dependance of other classes on ppus and the ppus lack of dependance on anyone else.
The ppu's strength should be their ability to support their team mates. The tank should be the one that takes the damage. Ppus should need tanks for protection, something like sharing the damage they take with tanks. That way a ppu can't just run around after a battle while the other team tries to kill him, and he waits for them to get bored so he can rez his comrades. Instead they only have good defence while they have tanks who can protect them. By giving tanks a role to play we'll see more of them at OP wars (in fact if they are needed to defend ppus we'll see lots more). Then you can change things like make sniper rifles bypass the damage transfer, so a sniper spy damages the ppu directly and not the tank. This gives a role for spies past simply hacking.
StoneRayne
15-10-03, 21:48
You want to make the game skill-dependent?
You want to bring the challenge, not the impossibility of winning, back to the game?
You want to stop requiring PPUs?
Nerf parashock to shit, or remove it completely. It ruins the skill aspect of ANY game.
Originally posted by StoneRayne
You want to make the game skill-dependent?
You want to bring the challenge, not the impossibility of winning, back to the game?
You want to stop requiring PPUs?
Nerf parashock to shit, or remove it completely. It ruins the skill aspect of ANY game.
YES YES YES AND YES!
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