View Full Version : where neocron went wrong
neocron is good ok, the problem is... its not the same game as it was in the first 3 months of retail, the game was full of mayhem, and getting up to mischief, big wars and best of all full of crime
it was fun to kill monsters, because they was not so hard, you could do this alone and not have to wait for your ppu to come online, seriously this part of neocron now is like having to wait for your gf to come home from work so you can go fucking shopping
you actually got good loot and money, so you felt you was getting somewhere and it was enough to keep you farming
you could farm for around 2 hours and have a decent amount of tech parts to go back to plaza and meet up with the people you play with and do some trading along with about 5 or more people at least. so you was able to actually get the rares you want, instead of like now where it can take you weeks!
not only that, the safe slot and quickbelt system stops people from stealing of others, giving motivation to pvp. the best element of this game and the rush you got from fighting for each others gun
this could have been the alternative to spending weeks on getting you rare gun/spell.
and now neocron has just turned into an FPS, you gain nothing but a s****************** when you floor someone. you cannot even just be a small gang dedicated to stealing, it's just big organizations where people just join the best around because they hate to be on the loosin side in a OP war. because thats what everything evolves around now :lol:
there was also the bounty hunter system, so you could actually track those people down who has done something you did'nt like.
i know this was used to greif people but sure there is a way to balence it by making CA only or something...
and the reason people don't back all this is because they left!
what i trying to say is WHEN IS NEPTUNE OUT?!
NEPTUNE ? cant see it coming tbh
DOY ? cant see it coming tbh....oh sorry wrong topic
those are the things i remember when i first started playing, i remember you and helmut killing me and dropping my TL79 fusion cannon.
was fun at that level but now i dont know if i'd like to go back to it, neptune will be good if it ever arrives becuase everyone will start with nothing and i wont give a shit about loosing it.
Andy
lol, yah quickbelt should be removed or maybe so u need like 100+ soullight to have it.
pking hostile factions should give some reward, so people do it, giving more RP and PvP.
Syntax-Error
13-10-03, 14:57
if rares wernt so hard to come by, sure qb rules wud rock. but if i spent weeks getting parts for that nice rare only to die min's after getting it to have someone steal it.. that just piss's me off and makes me not wana play.
yes but stig you have to admitm how good it feels when you kill the pker and steal his weapon. revenge makes a game.
Never said this before but: I agree with Style 100%...
There I said it and the world hasn't ended yet! But I hear the devils now available to book skiing holidays...
DjSkum
yes but stig you have to admitm how good it feels when you kill the pker and steal his weapon. revenge makes a game.
oh yes, first time i killed starkes i got his 3 slot libby
1st time i killed helmut i got his PE,
and Andy constable dropped his 5 slot FL i think but i gave that to a guy who helped me kill him
was fun but i recon i lost more than i got.
Andy
EDIT/ i think i could live with it if it was 1st slot protected and dropping an item in any zone but i wouldn't like to loose my artifact CS
dont recon neptune will come with the current amount of players, though id like to see the safe zones removed totally from neocron(if people dont want to die keep the LE in).
if it wasnt a pain in the ass to get the rare parts you needed then it wouldnt bother me about dropping my CS or whatever, but the current system makes it so that if you do lose it if your like me in a very small clan(or yourself style for that matter)then it could take a fair amount of time hunting and tradeing to get it replaced which is boring.
id like to see the mobs back to the way they were cos it was fun to hunt back at start of retail.
id love to see the tracker thing on citycom again(think rade had a thread on it)
id like it the way it used to be when a pker didnt need a PPU strapped to him to go out killing, but they way monks stand atm that just aint gonna happen.
Edit: damn im getting all nostalgic for early retail :(
but ezza: your BD your suposed to be a gangstar thief :rolleyes:
TheDuckMan
13-10-03, 15:06
Here is what I think is wrong with NC. People quit because they get frustrated. People get frustrated because they die from better players or mobs. When people die they have to get pokes. It takes forever to find a poker. So lets get more pokers and watch everyone come back.
EDIT: :lol: (that was a sarcastic post btw)
Originally posted by Style
but ezza: your BD your suposed to be a gangstar thief :rolleyes:
true enough but in the current drop rate for rares it would be hard to do, if non rares were better in PvP(talking about my tank more than me PE)then it would be cool, so what you lose your CS my TPC will do, that would be fun
edit@ duckman: there was more players back when this stuff was going on
DuckMan, would you like to step on my role at being a pker wheneve you log in to neocron taking on anyone who steps in your way, and when you finnally die loose a peice of armor, or even all your stuff from going to - 35 sl
even if you dont loose your all your stuff due to sl, it still can cost like 100k a day from gr fees, to buying new armor you loose.
you dont even know what your talking about
can you not hijack my thread please wih your ego maniac comments on whos shit and whos the best, because i really dont care and i want an anser from callash or someone MJS would be nice
Neocron just changed from lone player style to team work style. It seems many of us went NC for a lone player style as most other MMORPGs enforce us to team work. I really dont see the reason for NC going into enforced team work. Cyberpunk scenarios were mostly about loners, NC should stick to it. Besides, the server population isnt something that works well with enforced teamwork...
PvP loot is another story...a long one. I cant see a way for the good old PvP loot rules to come back with the current techpart and rare item situation as well as with players used to a safe slot.
Maybe a new PvP loot system would have a chance.
TheDuckMan
13-10-03, 15:18
Style, sry if i offended you but maybe you shouldnt pk friendly factions? Maybe you are where neocron went wrong. Pssing people off because you killed allies.
Originally posted by Style
you actually got good loot and money, so you felt you was getting somewhere and it was enough to keep you farming
you could farm for around 2 hours and have a decent amount of tech parts to go back to plaza and meet up with the people you play with and do some trading along with about 5 or more people at least. so you was able to actually get the rares you want, instead of like now where it can take you weeks!
mostly true. the current drop rates have certainly slowed things down. these days you need to make friends and influence people if you want to own a rare.
Originally posted by Style
not only that, the safe slot and quickbelt system stops people from stealing of others, giving motivation to pvp. the best element of this game and the rush you got from fighting for each others gun
this could have been the alternative to spending weeks on getting you rare gun/spell.
this is a myth. like any myth, there is a basis in fact, but many would agree that the original system killed PvP since most people stopped fighting at 1/3rd health and stowed their weapon. in fact most people when attacked unprepared by a PK, often in the midst of levelling/hunting, IMMEDIATELY stowed their weapon.
the fact is that now people fight to the bitter end. there may no longer be the dubious "rush" of the 1 in 10 possibilty of getting your opponents weapon, but that is more than mitigated by knowing that your opponent is actually going to fight you, as opposed to stowing their weapon in inventory and laughing their ass off.
what is even more amusing is that the only folks who now ARE likely to drop their weapons are low-SL, presumably random PK, runners. and yet these folks rarely venture out of their appys until the SL has risen back to -5 (or whatever it is for the safeslot to reactivate).
Originally posted by Style
what i trying to say is WHEN IS NEPTUNE OUT?!
when server populations rise to the point at which it becomes a commercial viability (i.e. not soon). and when enough people make it clear that they would be willing to switch. given the current population of pluto as opposed to saturn, i'd say that 1 char servers are not really the flavour of the month anyway.
I would suggest that the inability of anti-social morons who feel the need to kill anything that moves has resulted in the changes to the PvP system which, in your opinion "has killed Neocron".
Casual players (and dont kid yourself the casual players are what brings a MMORPGs numbers up) are just not going to put up with having all they have worked for taken away from them by some higher rank PK whos bored.
If you can police yourself you cant expect the game to do it for you sooner or later (Eve is another good example of this in practice)
if its casual players that bring the numbers up then why have they dropped from the early days of neocron retail?
Originally posted by ezza
if its casual players that bring the numbers up then why have they dropped from the early days of neocron retail?
Because they are sick of getting Pked all the time by higher ranked runners maybe? (you did read my post right?)
but back then there was major pking going on, and the numbers were a lot higher than now.
you look at the pking now, its nothing to what it was but the numbers are lower.
pkers aint to blame for the lower number.
Cruzbroker
13-10-03, 15:54
I'd like the bounty... Just min. limit would be something like 1mil so not every noob can get someone killed for just getting pissed for fun o_O
i think you can never be good if there aint any "evil", if you have no one to fight to you'll be bored real soon… i really loved the days that starkes went to mb and killed anyone on sight, it was fun fighting back.. And because there was a "common enemy" everyone teamed up to kill him together.. (teamplay? :)) i can understand its not cool for noobs to get slaughtered ach day just because they move (or dont move), but if there aint an enemy then there aint any fun either… so i would like to see that pk-ing would be more accesible (copbot shooting at evil ppl isnt a bad point, but its a bad point that the ones with low sl have nowhere to go… doy would solve this problem though). Another problem is that ppl with low sl drop 5 items.. i can understand its not cool dropping all your items cause a ppu parashocked you to death :rolleyes:
lets hope kk has some future plans to get pvp back on track... before this game turns into everquest-o-cron :rolleyes:
BlackPrince
13-10-03, 15:58
Blame it on the Pkers? Sorry boyo but that holds no water what so ever. Everyone said "Implement the LE and the casual players will stay!!!oneone". KK did, population shrank. Then it was "Remove the penalties from the LE and more will come!!oneone". KK did, and the population still shrank. Then it was "Heavier penalties for the Ebbil Pkayers!!!oneone". KK did that too, and we have even lower numbers.
Maybe it was the PKing fact that gave Neo, as a niche item, such a wide based appeal. Neo will never be EQ or UO, but still to this date it is the only FPS MMORPG (less emphasis on the RPG now) on the market.
Now most people are too scared to fight outside Ops for fear of lowering their soul light and losing that Precious Ultima Enhanced XHeated Super Penis Enlarged Cursed Soul w/Laser pointer, flashlight, and fuzzy dice.
KK tried turning Neo into a Camp-A-Thon ala EQ and it's failed. Maybe its time for the pendelum to swing the other way?
I love the quickbelt system and safe slot. I never lose rares cause i keep em in slot 1, but for some reason i just cant figure out, others dont. so far ive gotten 3 CS on saturn, 4 slot 2 slot (awesome quality) 1 slot (nice for 1 slot) artifact hl, 2 fire apocs, holy antibuff, and more. Also, i like it drops in a belt so i dont kill some guy and some random jerk gets the item, used to hate that shit.
I want player location back in citycom though, got a lot of people to hunt down... at least let us hack the location, or even give the target a notice warning 5 mins after his location has been found, but plz put this back in game.
All I cant tell you is this.
Player numbers will have dropped due to PK before LE implimentation
Player numbers will have dropped after LE implimentation as most will have taken it out because of the restrictions and the rest couldnt put up with the restrictions
Players continue to drop after double stat requirments removed from LE chip because you still cant form/join a clan with one in and only 1 Epic run allows you to complete it with an LE in.
Unfortunately the LE is still too restrictive (I know thats not going to go down well) but the damage has already been done - NC has a reputation as a PvP game where PKing is rampant (the fact that this may not be true anymore is irrelevant) and you only have to look at Planetside to see how popular a true persistant PvP game is (not).
Disagree or not, its my opinion
I agree with tyhe big clan thing and most of the good players join the winning side, but I don't quite see why u need a PPU to go mob hunting, only thing I ever need is a hacker some times.
Originally posted by El Barto
I agree with tyhe big clan thing and most of the good players join the winning side, but I don't quite see why u need a PPU to go mob hunting, only thing I ever need is a hacker some times.
kinda hunting Style does isnt of the mob veriety:lol:
KRIMINAL99
13-10-03, 16:28
Originally posted by s0apy
mostly true. the current drop rates have certainly slowed things down. these days you need to make friends and influence people if you want to own a rare.
this is a myth. like any myth, there is a basis in fact, but many would agree that the original system killed PvP since most people stopped fighting at 1/3rd health and stowed their weapon. in fact most people when attacked unprepared by a PK, often in the midst of levelling/hunting, IMMEDIATELY stowed their weapon.
the fact is that now people fight to the bitter end. there may no longer be the dubious "rush" of the 1 in 10 possibilty of getting your opponents weapon, but that is more than mitigated by knowing that your opponent is actually going to fight you, as opposed to stowing their weapon in inventory and laughing their ass off.
what is even more amusing is that the only folks who now ARE likely to drop their weapons are low-SL, presumably random PK, runners. and yet these folks rarely venture out of their appys until the SL has risen back to -5 (or whatever it is for the safeslot to reactivate).
when server populations rise to the point at which it becomes a commercial viability (i.e. not soon). and when enough people make it clear that they would be willing to switch. given the current population of pluto as opposed to saturn, i'd say that 1 char servers are not really the flavour of the month anyway.
Soapy actually your wrong, but I guess you wouldnt know that only having started playing in july of this year... The only person who would have time to stowe their weapon would be like ppus or something. And anyways it doest matter because they could just keep it the way it is now but unlock them. Under the new system your weapon, especially with slots is always going to be in the top 10 most valuable items so its just like they had a full quickbelt before as long as you have at least 10 droppable items.
The more slots weapons have the more they are valued at too.
@ Vettero - That is exactly what happens now... You kill someone and some random hacker jerk gets the loot when noones around. The hacking needs to be taken out. Hackers need some other usefulness but ruining pvp for everyone else just so they can be useful is not the answer.
@5150 But like everyone else has said, the game was 10x MORE populated under the old rules. The game was meant to be like that when created by the original developers (the ones who knew what they were doing). The people who were pking WERE THE casual players who learned how to play this game and how fun it was. The new players who complained about being pked didnt know the ropes yet but were encourage to take out their LE, and worst of all the volunteer gm staff encouraged them to complain about being pked as opposed to adapting to the game. (Which could be easily done if the people stopped whining for 2 seconds) Since there were more new players than expierenced players at the beginning of retail and they were encouraged to whine about it it seemed like random PVP was actually something bad and they ruined the game because of this illusion. When in reality, people wouldnt quit because of rpking they would be more challenged to play (They might threaten, maybe even fake leave but they came back). All those newbies instead when they realized the game was totally boring now once you knew the game, but not before going on pking runs themselves.
I totally agree that pvp is totally meaningless now. Neofrag was designed to let players practice pvp without risking items, but it got boring fast cause nothing was at risk. Now all pvp is like neofrag.
StoneRayne
13-10-03, 16:30
Vet, sometimes you make me laugh. You always complain about how all classes but your are overpowered, and how LE should be removed, so you can be the l33t pk3r. Yet you're a wuss to put something on the line for being a PKer.
The QB system right now IS a piece of shit. The way it was before (any item out of QB can fall out, but not out of your inv) was the most interesting idea in a LONG time, that actually brought a POINT to playing this game.
For some reason agreeing with Style makes me feel bad (hehe), but he's 100% right.
System before:
Go PK....get killed...lose your lib....go hunt for rares...try not to get PKed in the middle bc of your reputation....get a LOT of Tps....Make ressers a popular profession again.....Build another Lib...
System now:
Waste 3 days to get a weapon, go PK, get killed, get poked, go PK, get killed, get poked, get bored, quit NC.
kriminal you are a fucking genious....
Soapy actually your wrong, but I guess you wouldnt know that only having started playing in july of this year... The only person who would have time to stowe their weapon would be like ppus or something. And anyways it doest matter because they could just keep it the way it is now but unlock them. A weapon, especially with slots is always going to be in the top 10 most valuable items so its just like they had a full quickbelt before.
actually kriminal your wrong
becuase weapons or other items only used to drop from the quickbelt where as now its the top 10 most valuable items
Andy
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
@5150 Like everyone else has explained to you, the game was 10x MORE populated under the old rules.
and as I was trying to explain the reason is because the changes came too late (all you have to do is look how quickly things are patched to see that), the population dropped before the 'fixes' came in, those it was intended to please had already gone and all the changes did was piss off those who were left (who then left before the next 'fixes').
Of couse the game at launch was more populated - people cant quit a game before they play it can they!
But I can see we are just going to have to agree to disagree here
actually 5190, i remember the exact week before the PK nerf patch. the server was really good, and the next 3 weeks after that i quit along with lots of others, and within those last 3 weeks i saw neocron dying
KidWithStick
13-10-03, 16:55
and the reason people don't back all this is because they left!
OMG!!! so true...
i wish it went back to like that, i didnt mind somthing in my quickbelt droping, just as long as they wernt fucking near impossible to get back in a non-working amount of time.
oh man...if i droped a CS in a fight, i would go insane.
KRIMINAL99
13-10-03, 17:03
Originally posted by 5150
and as I was trying to explain the reason is because the changes came too late (all you have to do is look how quickly things are patched to see that), the population dropped before the 'fixes' came in, those it was intended to please had already gone and all the changes did was piss off those who were left (who then left before the next 'fixes').
Yeah 5150 thats just flat out not true... People didn't start leaving until some time after the pk changes. The populations were high throughout that time. It seems really clear to me that this surge of new players from retail launch came and went through neocron as they got through all the single player content and there was nothing left to do at the end because of the changes. And they took most of the old players with them. The only reason I'm here is by hope they will do something else to make the game that fun again; And because there is no competition for this genre... YET
5150, do you actually know what you are talking about?
Server populations have dropped since these new carebearish rules came along (lower drop rates, QB, safe slot). The reason being that the people who did play Neocron then played because it had an atmosphere and an urgency. They played for the cyberpunk in it. Neocron isn't cyberpunk anymore, its more sci fi, fantasy in the future.
I agree 100% with style. This was a cyberpunk game, if you got killed the fucking deal with it. Then you could deal with it, because a few hours of hunting and trading and you would have a nice new "rare" weapon (the whole rare system, I think, is ludicrous in a cyberpunk game in the first place) and if you lost a "rare" weapon then it didn't actually matter that much, but it was still worth enough so that you fought for it.
I was thinking...what would happen if KK would for example put the old PvP drop rules and the old drop rate on techparts on Pluto. I have a feeling that Pluto's population would grow pretty fast.
Im pretty sure KK can make such changes and they already made an exeption from the "all servers are the same rule" with Jupiter's drop in war zones.
Originally posted by Lucjan
I was thinking...what would happen if KK would for example put the old PvP drop rules and the old drop rate on techparts on Pluto. I have a feeling that Pluto's population would grow pretty fast.
Im pretty sure KK can make such changes and they already made an exeption from the "all servers are the same rule" with Jupiter's drop in war zones.
why pluto, i play on saturn as i know a few other people on this thread do, and i dont want to relocate to pluto for the item drop ruling, and its not just that its a whole randge of things that would improve the way it is now.
for the item drop rule to work techs drop rate would need to improve and make the mobs as fun as they used to be etc etc
I just used Pluto as an example as it has a pretty low, but stable population atm. So we would see the change in player numbers pretty well. Besides, I play mostly on Pluto and I dont want to relocate to Saturn ;P
Original monk
13-10-03, 18:11
I agree with you like 300%, this hard to survive in post-apocolypse world became a platinum version off the sims :/
Why ? cause they listend to much to the spy's and pe's whining on the forum that they been PKed to much by big bad tanks, end of story
is my response constructive ? not atm no
do i gonna explain myself near ? not atm no
is neptune gonna be the answer ? dont think so (if neptune ever gonna be started with this playeramounts)
to style: ya left when things started to change, now all changes are there and you fall inside some nerfed edition of barbieworld, safeslots/belts, nerfed droprates (why call em rares if everyone has em/needs em), genreprules, factionloss/SL-loss when killing in a huntingground, Loms, pussytanks (if a PE gets better defences then a tank something is defenitly wrong), killed every single hybrid (yeah except that 1 nerfed hybrid still runnin around :p) they yust wrecked their game a bit, small criminal steal the belt clans doesnt exist anymore, anything needs to be big, ow yeah and ya need 3 freaking hackers to hack an OP, so ya cant go hack an op yourself, place 10gatlingturrets and go yelling at the clan you took it from that they are newbies ;/ (to have some fun 10 minutes later)
no response anymore: people that played beta and the beginning of retail know the feeling and i think it aint comming back soon ...
juvestar15
13-10-03, 18:34
I agree with Style too.
Neocron when i started to Neocron now is 2 different games.
Can any of you imagine taking an OP with a few tanks and a few PEs? It is the best fun you will ever have.
Nowm you get killed and say to yourself "oh well shit happens". Before the QBs you would absolutly shit yourself. I think this is what a cyperpunk game needs. ATM Neocron is all happy happy joy joy. :D
Lets turn up the heat and make people scared.
Agree 100%
Voted 5 stars!
fighting before quick belts way retared. lemme tell you AGAIN how it was. player a and player b engage in battle. player b gets down to 80% hp. suddenly he stops moving (hes putting his weapon away) and is killed. I lost only one rare ever before QB system, and that was cause i crashed in an op war, thats it. I ALWAYS hack the belts that are my kills, if you let someone else hack em, tough. if you cant hack, tough. a pe can easily afford hack (pistols can, rifles is a bit harder) and a monk with high int can afford it too. spies obveosly can, and if your a tank, well, make freinds with a spy/pe, or your screwed i guess.
Plus fighting will go way down if you dont have a safe slot. theres a difference between being a wimp and being dumb. let me give an example:
Wimp: someone i cant name because it will proably be edited, but he knows who he is, who is too afraid to fight any where but pp by the zoneline with 2 ppus and other attackers. Will he come help defend tg when we arre raiding? or his allies when we are pking them? no, because he has no copbots to hide under or zones to cross.
Dumb: going out to an area where you will most likey be killed, with a very high chance of losing a rare that was hard work to get.
Theres plenty of ways to get rares as things stand, IVE DONE IT. 1) kill morons who carry 2 rares. just yesturday we got an almost all artifact 2 slot cs, ultimated xheat. how was this lost? beats the HELL out of me, but it keeps happening
2) kill red sl... got a 4 slot cs, and artifact HL. How are they dumb enough to get red and not get the hell out of the area? beats me, but i keep finding them.
3) make people have bad sl... make someone kill vendors by accident etc, then nuke em. you get a rae almost garenteed.
4) kill high level ppus. Maybe no rare, but a 4 slot holy spell is nice too.
If you guys can do this, im sorry for you, but im killing lotsa dumbies and getting rares, and I, being smart and careful lose 0. I love it.
Reason they made rares rarer and with the safeslot? With the safeslot you can justify having weapons that takes alot of effort to get. Alot of effort equals alot of time which in turn keeps players coming back for a longer period of time.
And that would be why there are less people online now than there were at the beginning of retail eh micro?
Vetterox, your point is invalid because when there were no safe slots then the drop rates were massively higher, meaning that it didn't take that much work to get a "rare".
Also I will admit that dropping one of your 10 most valuble items is a better system than one from quickbelt and I think that it would work well with the old PvP rules.
Originally posted by VetteroX
fighting before quick belts way retared. lemme tell you AGAIN how it was. player a and player b engage in battle. player b gets down to 80% hp. suddenly he stops moving (hes putting his weapon away) and is killed. I lost only one rare ever before QB system, and that was cause i crashed in an op war, thats it. I ALWAYS hack the belts that are my kills, if you let someone else hack em, tough. if you cant hack, tough. a pe can easily afford hack (pistols can, rifles is a bit harder) and a monk with high int can afford it too. spies obveosly can, and if your a tank, well, make freinds with a spy/pe, or your screwed i guess.
Plus fighting will go way down if you dont have a safe slot. theres a difference between being a wimp and being dumb. let me give an example:
Wimp: someone i cant name because it will proably be edited, but he knows who he is, who is too afraid to fight any where but pp by the zoneline with 2 ppus and other attackers. Will he come help defend tg when we arre raiding? or his allies when we are pking them? no, because he has no copbots to hide under or zones to cross.
Dumb: going out to an area where you will most likey be killed, with a very high chance of losing a rare that was hard work to get.
Theres plenty of ways to get rares as things stand, IVE DONE IT. 1) kill morons who carry 2 rares. just yesturday we got an almost all artifact 2 slot cs, ultimated xheat. how was this lost? beats the HELL out of me, but it keeps happening
2) kill red sl... got a 4 slot cs, and artifact HL. How are they dumb enough to get red and not get the hell out of the area? beats me, but i keep finding them.
3) make people have bad sl... make someone kill vendors by accident etc, then nuke em. you get a rae almost garenteed.
4) kill high level ppus. Maybe no rare, but a 4 slot holy spell is nice too.
If you guys can do this, im sorry for you, but im killing lotsa dumbies and getting rares, and I, being smart and careful lose 0. I love it.
thats all very well Vet(i mean ive got a few nice things in the short life of my PE) but as a tank they aint gonna get anything as they cant hack, and if you want solo Pk fun then you aint gonna get anything, all very well when you have PPU, but back then you didnt need anyone to hold your hand
Originally posted by ezza
but back then there was major pking going on, and the numbers were a lot higher than now.
you look at the pking now, its nothing to what it was but the numbers are lower.
pkers aint to blame for the lower number.
PKers are not the sole problem but they are part of the problem. If only by the cliche saying of "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem."
In fact tha "back then" you are talking about is the time when everyone was on the same footing and rares flowed like fine wine. You don't seem to realize what "casual player" is. A casual player is someone who does not play 8 hours a day. Therefore there are plenty of casual players who have been playing since retail started and are still not capped. Which means uncapped casual player (whose PvP skills haven't gotten all that much practice) vs. a dedicated capped idiot random PKer, who do you think will win? And I do mean 110% of the time too.
So yes, most of those casual players who were there from the beginning quickly got pissed off with the game and left it which is why the server populations are low. Which is not to say that PKers are what did it, but they certainly helped the process along. As I mentioned before, my first intro to this game was being ganked at level 0/2 in the n00b sewers by a capped tank who was my own faction no less. (Gee, 0/2 spy vs. PA tank with Paw of Bear back when LE's really sucked and had to be taken out). Why'd he kill me? I still have no idea, I couldn't ask as I got killed in 1 shot and never got the chance to catch the guy's name.
Another problem why populations are low is due to CDV being such shit and not marketing the game at all. (The only reason I found out about Neocron was due to a small video I downloaded off fileplanet about 2 or 2.5 years ago).
Another reason is the fact that anyone joining right now, has a very hard time capping (since they don't know anyone, they can't get ppus or other runners to help. They are more likely to be told "fuck off n00b" than anything else.) They also have a very hard time getting weapons since the old players being such cheapskates totally ruined the idea of street tradeskillers because no one was tipping anything decent. Why should I waste 2 hours standing in Plaza building guns for people and make MAYBE 20k, if I'm lucky (Yes, especially pisses me off when someone used to give me a TPC to build which is TL81, uses 25 grease units and only gave like 2k in tip. 200/25 = 8. Considering a 200-tube costs 8k, that's 1k per TPC attempt. So my net profit from that is 1k. And that's from a player who's /6x?!)
Instead I could go to my apt, spend those 2 hours building 100 TPCs (or more), then selling them to the rich runners who really want the weapon and don't mind paying a lot for it. Hence in the same 2 hours I could make about 1 million nc. (1 5-slot TPC used to sell for about 500k, 4-slot about 250k... So 1 5-slot and 2 4-slots are 1 mil. The 3-slotters or less are sold to runners/NPCs with barter and make up for the resources spent on building the guns).
So no tradeskillers on Plaza means new runners have to use storebought weapons for a long time or spend a LONG time waiting for a tradeskiller to bother coming to Plaza (Something I've also experienced when I started my newbie chars on Saturn not long time ago). That combined with low drop of ANYTHING marketable (rare imps, or techs or anything a new runner could sell for good cash) makes it impossible for the runners to also buy one of those pre-constructed multi-slotted weapons.
Finally, because tech drop is so rare, all new players should expect to spend 2-3 months spent from the time they start to the time they get their first rare. And that might end up being a 0-slot also or might get stolen by an ass (I won't mention names, you all know who you are if you are still around).
So yes, CDV is part of the problem, but the biggest reason why all the old players are leaving and no new players are staying is not the bugs or the lack of publicity or anything like that. (After all, plenty of people download the free trial of Neocron all the time). It's the community, the people who make the newbie's lives a living hell and hence not something they'd like to waste money on. (That includes through direct and in-direct actions).
Anyway, those were my 2 Million nc worth.
i've never see so many people agree with me in this game :)
vet, tell me this - how can you call your self a pker, you may aswell just be the average pvper if you dont want good loot of runner loot bags
ALL this game is with safe slot and qucikbelt is a, skill point based game where u gain nothing but an ego from flooring somone. u may aswell be playing an FPS ok
if neocron was real world think about it, you shit your pants walking down plaices like industrial because the crime rate is so high, having no safe slot and no quickbelt = you are viable to get jacked and given a beaten
thats why no safe slot and no quickbelt is so important, your suposed to experiance this sorta thing being as this game is an MMORPG, its suposed to have content
why would anyone be scaed if there is no coinciquence when you die, you dont loose anything huh? theres no reason to be
for god sake, lore, if i wanted to play a game where things take LONG TIME to get like secret weapons etc i would play a game thats single player rpg
like most people, there is games for that sort of shit already that are online such as diablo 2, evershit etc
EDIT> sorry about the double post
i would go to pluto if it was changed into hardcore server, would rock see different people :)
Disturbed021
13-10-03, 20:23
Originally posted by Judge
Server populations have dropped since these new carebearish rules came along (lower drop rates, QB, safe slot). The reason being that the people who did play Neocron then played because it had an atmosphere and an urgency. They played for the cyberpunk in it. Neocron isn't cyberpunk anymore, its more sci fi, fantasy in the future.
I absolutely agree with that. This game is not Cyberpunk nemore. When I first started I got pkd maybe 6 times, and I was pissed about it, especially when the xx/65 tank snuck up behind my xx/22 monk while fighting a mob and shocks me then kills me in one burst from a CS. But then I learned how to play and defend myself....I realized that it was a big bad world and I have to watch my back all the time.
I liked that feeling and that feeling is what the game was all about imo. Some ppl complained, some ppl took advantage of the sl system so they changed a lot of things.
Now we are left with a feeling of a sci-fi fantasy game (as Judge put it) where you drop nothing from slot 1 so will never drop your one uber rare, but the part drop is extremely low so it will take you a long time (as a casual player) to get a rare much less an uber 4-5 slotter. A lot of the mobs are harder to kill or have lots in the same area (MC5 for example) that you are forced to team up against. I'm not against having tough-ass mobs that you can not solo, in fact I am all for it. However, specific mobs that you HAVE to team up to kill or have to farm 24/7 for weeks to get parts to be effective in PvP is boring, a huge timesink, and tbh one of the main reasons a lot of ppl left.
Other reasons ppl left are of course the sl system which isn't too bad imo, tho I think you should be able to bribe whoever in the game controls the sl system to raise it (same with faction symp).
The QB drop. Kinda in the middle ground on this one, dont mind it much but I think 5 items including the 1 slot for -sl ppl is way too harsh and discourages pkers.
The first QB slot lock. I think this is silly and is extremely bias. Some character classes can get away with carrying one rare while others need 2+ or are much better when carrying more than one.
Originally posted by Lareolan
PKers are not the sole problem but they are part of the problem. If only by the cliche saying of "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem."
In fact tha "back then" you are talking about is the time when everyone was on the same footing and rares flowed like fine wine. You don't seem to realize what "casual player" is. A casual player is someone who does not play 8 hours a day. Therefore there are plenty of casual players who have been playing since retail started and are still not capped. Which means uncapped casual player (whose PvP skills haven't gotten all that much practice) vs. a dedicated capped idiot random PKer, who do you think will win? And I do mean 110% of the time too.
So yes, most of those casual players who were there from the beginning quickly got pissed off with the game and left it which is why the server populations are low. Which is not to say that PKers are what did it, but they certainly helped the process along. As I mentioned before, my first intro to this game was being ganked at level 0/2 in the n00b sewers by a capped tank who was my own faction no less. (Gee, 0/2 spy vs. PA tank with Paw of Bear back when LE's really sucked and had to be taken out). Why'd he kill me? I still have no idea, I couldn't ask as I got killed in 1 shot and never got the chance to catch the guy's name.
Another problem why populations are low is due to CDV being such shit and not marketing the game at all. (The only reason I found out about Neocron was due to a small video I downloaded off fileplanet about 2 or 2.5 years ago).
Another reason is the fact that anyone joining right now, has a very hard time capping (since they don't know anyone, they can't get ppus or other runners to help. They are more likely to be told "fuck off n00b" than anything else.) They also have a very hard time getting weapons since the old players being such cheapskates totally ruined the idea of street tradeskillers because no one was tipping anything decent. Why should I waste 2 hours standing in Plaza building guns for people and make MAYBE 20k, if I'm lucky (Yes, especially pisses me off when someone used to give me a TPC to build which is TL81, uses 25 grease units and only gave like 2k in tip. 200/25 = 8. Considering a 200-tube costs 8k, that's 1k per TPC attempt. So my net profit from that is 1k. And that's from a player who's /6x?!)
Instead I could go to my apt, spend those 2 hours building 100 TPCs (or more), then selling them to the rich runners who really want the weapon and don't mind paying a lot for it. Hence in the same 2 hours I could make about 1 million nc. (1 5-slot TPC used to sell for about 500k, 4-slot about 250k... So 1 5-slot and 2 4-slots are 1 mil. The 3-slotters or less are sold to runners/NPCs with barter and make up for the resources spent on building the guns).
So no tradeskillers on Plaza means new runners have to use storebought weapons for a long time or spend a LONG time waiting for a tradeskiller to bother coming to Plaza (Something I've also experienced when I started my newbie chars on Saturn not long time ago). That combined with low drop of ANYTHING marketable (rare imps, or techs or anything a new runner could sell for good cash) makes it impossible for the runners to also buy one of those pre-constructed multi-slotted weapons.
Finally, because tech drop is so rare, all new players should expect to spend 2-3 months spent from the time they start to the time they get their first rare. And that might end up being a 0-slot also or might get stolen by an ass (I won't mention names, you all know who you are if you are still around).
So yes, CDV is part of the problem, but the biggest reason why all the old players are leaving and no new players are staying is not the bugs or the lack of publicity or anything like that. (After all, plenty of people download the free trial of Neocron all the time). It's the community, the people who make the newbie's lives a living hell and hence not something they'd like to waste money on. (That includes through direct and in-direct actions).
Anyway, those were my 2 Million nc worth.
just cos they pk dont make them and idiot.
without them this game wouldnt of been as exciting.
and on the same footing hmm, i was a noob first time i got pkd 0/2 noob might be just the way i think but it doesnt bother me, and i was never on even footing with-since its styles thread-hate, when they were using libby and CS i was only just getting to the halos on my monk and had no idea what i was doing, once again got my ass handed to me, only now would i be on a even playing field.
but despite that i had fun you can go afk in the OZ now and not have any thing to fear.
as a noob you get pkd means nothing you may loose something but its likely not gonna be worth much
imho without the bad guys it would be no fun, with no bad guys how can you call your self a good guy as theres noone to measure your self against
Damn this is possibily something that could be tried out with KK very easily.
1. Increase Rare Drop rate (remember when Doomies used to drop atleast 1 rare EVERY time?)
2. Impose new rule set say 2-3 days after increase in rare drop rate
3. Monitor Server's population get feedback from the people
hopefully people will be able to get any rares they lose quite fast. Also this would make that whole random quality and slots thing abit more bareble. As you could just get another set of parts quite fast and build another. Hopefully stop people whinning about having to get a rare to fight. It would be easy as alot of people would be selling the ones they loot :p
EDIT: I've an idea why not use the test server? Thats what its for after all to test things! Well how about this the biggest test NC would have in a long long time. :rolleyes:
oh and for those who say that its the pkers that drive people away, of my old clan which used to have about 20 actives at max is about 5 people now, not because of pkers so left cos of the way game has gone other cos its boring now, i think bring the old rules back and we might just see some of those vets return
just a small thread jacking
im just kind of confused seeing people talkin about how low the drop rate is.
I usually go out warbot huntin and after and if im out for an hour or two i always come back with at least 10 rares. if we get 4-5 guys in the clan go out we can usually haul in 30 or so. we have cabinets full of rares and have built about 5 rares in the last three days. (three yesterday).
So what the hell is this about wanting more?
is that why me and my friend clown boat went tech part hunting for like 2 hours a night for a week and ended up with 7 tech parts altogether? this was warbot hunting btw
im sorry but its fucking redicurlus
some pople may have storys off coming out with 10 tech parts in 2 hours hunting but that person must have done lots of runs in a month or something
how long you spend hunting in real hours?
you used to get like 4 techs of a warbot shit liek that
ment you could get rares real quick so you could join in the fun, themn with the old item drop rule ment you could loose you CS but get another build quite quickly so although it would piss oyu off you know it wouldnt be long before you got another one
dunno. our clan has two pain easers, with a spare that no one can use yet.
picked up 7 rares in less than 15 minutes last night, maybe im just lucky.. first warbot had three rares, second none, third three, fourth one, then i called it a night and went to research, as three of my clan mates had over 15 a piece for me to research.
i guess i have to chalk it up to luck as it seems no one else gets these results..
i do have dry spells on occasions, where i dont get a rare for like half an hour, but then it balances out with times like the one mentioned above where im out less than a half an hour and get just loaded up.
Originally posted by Wyked
just a small thread jacking
im just kind of confused seeing people talkin about how low the drop rate is.
I usually go out warbot huntin and after and if im out for an hour or two i always come back with at least 10 rares. if we get 4-5 guys in the clan go out we can usually haul in 30 or so. we have cabinets full of rares and have built about 5 rares in the last three days. (three yesterday).
So what the hell is this about wanting more?
It's called luck. Just because you get 10/hour of hunting, the rest of the people get 1/day. And yes, I've had days when I'd hunt WBs non-stop APU/PPU, very fast kills, so we'd kill a LOT of them, and we'd only get 2 rares after 8 solid hours of hunting.
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Soapy actually your wrong, but I guess you wouldnt know that only having started playing in july of this year... The only person who would have time to stowe their weapon would be like ppus or something.
lol. i don't know why you might think i started playing in july. i've been playing for WELL over a year now. and thanks to someone else for pointing out that you, in fact and ironically, are dead wrong. we used to drop a random item from our "qb" - the 10 items listed down the left of your screen. if you moved an item from here to your inventory, it was guaranteed not to drop.
so, if you're in full inq armour, with 3 fire stacks on you, at 1/3rd health and you saw "pk#x" in your local, or spotted him heading for you with CS/judge out and ready to go, you stowed your weapon in inv and tried to make it to a GR. if you died, your man got a medkit most times. happy days?
what a lot of folks in this thread have forgotten, and will most likely continue to insist against until the end of days, is that the "golden age" of PKing sucked for everyone except the random PKs. they never had anything to lose, and their victims had everything to lose.
the reason, evidently, they quit en-masse was because it suddenly became hard to PK. they got little reward in the form of dropped weapons, they incurred SL loss, and the worse their SL became, the more likely THEY were to drop something. poor them. so they quit cos the game mechanic favoured those with SL over those with highly negative SL.
i have respect, great respect even, for our current PKs. they have to be careful, they have to take risks, and they have to have skill. long live the current PvP system. the good old days sucked ass.
Originally posted by Style
neocron is good ok, the problem is... its not the same game as it was in the first 3 months of retail, the game was full of mayhem, and getting up to mischief, big wars and best of all full of crime
it was fun to kill monsters, because they was not so hard, you could do this alone and not have to wait for your ppu to come online, seriously this part of neocron now is like having to wait for your gf to come home from work so you can go fucking shopping
you actually got good loot and money, so you felt you was getting somewhere and it was enough to keep you farming
you could farm for around 2 hours and have a decent amount of tech parts to go back to plaza and meet up with the people you play with and do some trading along with about 5 or more people at least. so you was able to actually get the rares you want, instead of like now where it can take you weeks!
not only that, the safe slot and quickbelt system stops people from stealing of others, giving motivation to pvp. the best element of this game and the rush you got from fighting for each others gun
this could have been the alternative to spending weeks on getting you rare gun/spell.
and now neocron has just turned into an FPS, you gain nothing but a s****************** when you floor someone. you cannot even just be a small gang dedicated to stealing, it's just big organizations where people just join the best around because they hate to be on the loosin side in a OP war. because thats what everything evolves around now :lol:
there was also the bounty hunter system, so you could actually track those people down who has done something you did'nt like.
i know this was used to greif people but sure there is a way to balence it by making CA only or something...
and the reason people don't back all this is because they left!
what i trying to say is WHEN IS NEPTUNE OUT?!
100% right m8
first: waiting for a ppu or mates to come on...that sucks....took me and some mates a week to organize a fucking hunt!
yeah, killing 25 wbs without a tech part....doesnt really make you feel good....just annoyed.....25 wbs and 30 techs.....ooh happy day!
random quickslot drop = GOOD! i fucking miss it!!
needing red people to kill just to get good loot....sucks!!
and with all the rares going around today...dropping more wont hurt!
s0apy in the "goldenage" of neocron i was a noob i got killed a lot i still played it, and it did not suck
and rebutt you sig is killing my eyes lol
And out of those 10 rares who many are any use to you? or even for trading to get ones you need? more than likely 1 or 2!
Thats the problem atm the rare pool is too big so until its trimmed down we need an increase in the rare drop rate.
Really how many thunderbolt, electric tempest, Paw of Tiger ...................... parts or complete sets have you got now?
i was surprised the last time i got rares ressed to find only 2 rare melee shocker parts out of 8 rares :rolleyes:
Didn't bother reading all the posts but me and Style discussed this thing a lot so we agree on it. I have the biggest problems with quickbelts cause they screw the PKers who have the most guts...., those who fight alone. For instance, a PKer attacks a group of 4 people of his level and he kills 2 of them ,but he can't get their drops cause they are in the belts and he can't hack them cause he will die, but the group of 4 guys can hack his belt after they finally kill him but in this fight the PKer who was alone deserved a reward for just being better in combat and having the balls to take em on alone. Thanks the belt system he gets nothing and wonders why he even bothered taking them on cause it only cost him money. Same stuff as Style for the rest.
Quickbelts=BS and I want Neptune.
p.s. Hope you understand what I mean.
another p.s. Maybe a bit O/T but IMO the whole rare system is BS. It doesn't feel right in a RPG IMO cause well yeah it doesn't make much sence.
I JUST said i get tons of good stuff even with the safe slot. I have ganed 2 cs's in under a week, 1 4 slot 1 2 slot. 2 weeks ago i got a 4 slot fire apoc. What if there was no safe slot, and you crash or synch out and die? no matter how good you are you cant avoid that. Under the current system good players dont lose rares, idiots do. Its all luck getting slots, so just my luck, and idiot got a 4 slot CS, got red sl, and ran into my group pking at TG. he died lost his rare.... good enough for me.
Also, all the people that posted they want no qb or safe slot, I can beat 1vs1.... so if you came up 1vs1 to me no safe slot, you would lose your rare... what then? what are u gonna do? how are you gonna fight if 1/2 the times u die you lose your rare? all the people that want this THINK they are good enough to gain more then they lose, but lemme wisen you up, after losing 1 rare, weak people arent gonna pvp much more, or arent gonna use a rare unless they have a ppu. I know i wouldnt carry lib or CS arenound without a team with me, call it wimp... i call it smart, id lose no rare. You can go on and on about how tough you are, but in the end we would catch you alone a few times, and you would be out of rares a 3-5 slot tpcs/blacksuns whatever else you use pretty quick.
The only way I could support no safe slot is if lupus idea got put in place, like we had a tl 80 store bought assult rifle, smg, and maybe some tl 80 or 90 energy weapons, so I could have a good, non rare weapon to go hunting/pking with, and save my rares for when I KNOW I wont lose it. I know im good but im not unbeatable, and alone, either through lotsa people ganking me or crashing in mb next to the guards, I WOULD lose my only means of fighting, my rares.
Gotterdammerung
13-10-03, 22:05
Lets not turn this thread into alot of ego posing and posturing, keep it in your pants and stay on topic. It's not a thread about who killed who when, who was unbuffed and who was picking their nose at the time.
Discuss
Originally posted by Netphreak
And out of those 10 rares who many are any use to you? or even for trading to get ones you need? more than likely 1 or 2!
Thats the problem atm the rare pool is too big so until its trimmed down we need an increase in the rare drop rate.
Really how many thunderbolt, electric tempest, Paw of Tiger ...................... parts or complete sets have you got now?
i was surprised the last time i got rares ressed to find only 2 rare melee shocker parts out of 8 rares :rolleyes:
actually i think all but 2 or 3 of the rares were of use to my clan, the only ones we dont really want are the pistol rares because no one uses the pistols.
But then again we pool rares a lot so everyone is getting what they want, and we are trying to get a stock of low level rares to help with new characters.
So its not that i was finding the rares i wanted (TP of Silent hunter and parts for obliterator are highest on my list) but most everything we could find a use for.
and we built two electric tempests just the other day, one is actually being used, heh ;)
kinda funny watchin a tank kill a warbot with an electro shocker.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I JUST said i get tons of good stuff even with the safe slot. I have ganed 2 cs's in under a week, 1 4 slot 1 2 slot. 2 weeks ago i got a 4 slot fire apoc. What if there was no safe slot, and you crash or synch out and die? no matter how good you are you cant avoid that. Under the current system good players dont lose rares, idiots do. Its all luck getting slots, so just my luck, and idiot got a 4 slot CS, got red sl, and ran into my group pking at TG. he died lost his rare.... good enough for me.
Also, all the people that posted they want no qb or safe slot, I can beat 1vs1.... so if you came up 1vs1 to me no safe slot, you would lose your rare... what then? what are u gonna do? how are you gonna fight if 1/2 the times u die you lose your rare? all the people that want this THINK they are good enough to gain more then they lose, but lemme wisen you up, after losing 1 rare, weak people arent gonna pvp much more, or arent gonna use a rare unless they have a ppu. I know i wouldnt carry lib or CS arenound without a team with me, call it wimp... i call it smart, id lose no rare. You can go on and on about how tough you are, but in the end we would catch you alone a few times, and you would be out of rares a 3-5 slot tpcs/blacksuns whatever else you use pretty quick.
The only way I could support no safe slot is if lupus idea got put in place, like we had a tl 80 store bought assult rifle, smg, and maybe some tl 80 or 90 energy weapons, so I could have a good, non rare weapon to go hunting/pking with, and save my rares for when I KNOW I wont lose it. I know im good but im not unbeatable, and alone, either through lotsa people ganking me or crashing in mb next to the guards, I WOULD lose my only means of fighting, my rares.
The no-belt and no-1st slot system worked before so why wouldn't it work again and would I need to fight in a team? Because it's easier and safer? I wanna fight alone cause it's way more fun than having people back you up.
Disturbed021
13-10-03, 23:07
Originally posted by Wyked
I usually go out warbot huntin and after and if im out for an hour or two i always come back with at least 10 rares. if we get 4-5 guys in the clan go out we can usually haul in 30 or so. we have cabinets full of rares and have built about 5 rares in the last three days. (three yesterday).
So what the hell is this about wanting more?
So you get 10 tech parts everytime you hunt for an hour or 2?
Luck plays an important role in tech parts. With my APU I can solo WBs really quickly and have been for weeks now. I get about 1 tech every 3 WBs on average. Some runs I average 1 per and some runs I can kill 25 b4 I get one part.
So say you are somewhat lucky and can get 10 tech parts everytime you hunt for 2 hours.
But say you are a casual gamer and can only spend 2 hours a day playing cause of school, work, life.
So 7 days a week, 2 hours a day, 10 parts each day is 70 by the end of the week if you can play each day.
280 after one month of tech farming spending every day killing WBs, fire mobs, etc...
There is what 59 possible rare items (not including MC5s)? Say an average of 5 techs needed to build each item (too lazy to find the actual number in tech pool) thats 295 or so possible tech parts.
Highly unlikely that all the 280 tech parts you get are unique so lots of duplicates in there. You may get lucky and get some parts you can trade or have enough cash that you can purchase the ones you need to complete the rare you have been looking for. So after another few days of yelling in Plaza or responding to the ingame forums you get all your parts needed for your rare item.
Then you go to have a constructor build the rare for you. If you make a large n00b mistake and just go to a cst in plaza you may lose your rare b4 you even see it. (go to some one you know or is recommended by someone you know)
Even if you go to a cst you know you are not guarenteed slots so if you get your rare you worked at for an entire month to get and it has 0 slots how happy are you going to be?
Point is, for the casual gamer rares are a total put-off. Yes once you finally get one it is hard to lose it because of the locked qb slot, but it can be work to get it. I have never played a game where I have heard the word WORK so much in my life.
For the vets, the hardcore gamers, and those in a good clan probably don't have too hard of a time getting rares.
But imo and what alot of ppl are saying here was it was much more fun when you could lose your weapon at anytime but could replace it extremely quickly and easily.
Imo they need to change something with PvP either go back to the old system or implement something new.
As far as rares go they need to then clean up the rare pool take out about 20 of the items in the Tech pool or up the drop rate.
Originally posted by #151988
The no-belt and no-1st slot system worked before so why wouldn't it work again and would I need to fight in a team? Because it's easier and safer? I wanna fight alone cause it's way more fun than having people back you up.
amen to that
yeah it was 10x beter back then
Personally, I'd like it just fine if there was just a slight modification to the current system.
First off, better drop rates. This has been said many times before, but we need better drop rates.
Second, make the items still drop in quickbelts, but make it such that unless the dead runner has 95+ soul light, it's completely open. Make it the standard system (e.g - hacking required) for people with 95+ SL. (Now don't get your panties in a bunch, people. The reson I say this is because if you are fighting mobs and die, and your weapon drops, it will have most likely dissapeared by the time you get back to it. This way, you still have a high risk of losing it, but only if someone finds it, not simply through it fading away.) This way, the PKer can still profit from killing someone, but he has to take a risk by opening up a QB and therefore being momentarily stationary.
Lastly, the safeslot stays. With the quickbelt change, you will still be getting a lot of loot, and people can still protect a single "my precious". Note, however, that the normal rules as to what drops would still apply. E.g. - One of the 10 most valuable things you have on you at that moment, barring tools, etc. just like now.
Epics would still be non-drops, too.
There is my idea for drops.
--Stryfe
*shrugs* I enjoyed it before, i enjoy it now, I am the same char I first started with and I play as much as I started with. Nuff Said.
Gotterdammerung thanks for saying this :)
Stryfe? the thing is, say real life people treat their bran new mobile phone as people do in neocron with their rare.
but that mobile phone is not safe, if you bump into the wrong person at the wrong time and plaice if you get me?
neocron is 10x worse then what any plaice is on earth now with crime rate
Hmmm.... interesting possible compormise stryfe.
*ponders*
Just keep a hybrid system. You drop any item, not just QB items, but you have no safeslot and belts don't need to be hacked. In fact I think when you loot a belt, an item should be made inside saying who took the item from it, and what the item was. This item can't be taken out, and after a while the belt vanishes. This means if your belt is looted you'll know who did it, i.e. someone you just happened to be nearby when you died hunting can't just take it and say they didn't (which happened with the old item drops straight to ground system). At the same you get a reward for killing someone.
I love how people still don't see how the system works both ways. You work your ass off for a 2 slot Pain Easer. You get killed. Somebody steals it. You go to MB or Cycrow, kill a spy using his 4 slot artifact Pain Easer, and nick it from his belt. What's the problem? Neocron's meant to be played like that - don't trust anyone, and the world isn't fair.
Style - you have been making valid points here but it would help if you weren't so aggressive and hostile. I think it's reaching a point now where people agree with you but they won't say so because they don't like your attitude. Maybe that doesn't bother you but if you want a more positive response to your threads you might consider this.
Originally posted by Style
Stryfe? the thing is, say real life people treat their bran new mobile phone as people do in neocron with their rare.
but that mobile phone is not safe, if you bump into the wrong person at the wrong time and plaice if you get me?
neocron is 10x worse then what any plaice is on earth now with crime rate True, but you have to make some sort of compromise for those that don't play as much as you or I. Currently, I only play about 2-4 hours a night, and as such, I have a relatively hard time getting rares. My PE just got a 3 slot Pain Easer and I know that if I were to lose it, I'd probably quit right then and there. It took me about a month of farming nothing but Warbots to get enough tech parts with enough variety that I could trade for the parts I needed. There is no way in hell that I want to go through that again. Now imagine what it's like for a person who plays only 5 hours a week or so. :(
I remember being really thankful after the "PK nerf" patch, as you guys call it, came around, simply because I could fight to the bitter end and not risk as much as I had before. I still prefer the system I outlined above then the current one though.
--Stryfe
P.S. - WTF? I just realized that I'm agreeing with Style. :wtf: :eek: :lol: :p
I like that idea about the item saying who looted your QB, Scikar. Makes a lot of sense since revenge is a stong motivator in the game.
i dont mean to be hostile, im that hostile? o_O
i didnt notice just the way i am. i can understand where your coming from. but thats why the rare tech part drop rate should be raised?
neocron is original compared to other MMOs, combat wise. and that is why it should not follow the same rules, its a original game, but with evershit rules
thats the way i see neocron now
@vet i really could not care less if your better then me, if you did kill me and jack my rare i would not care under this system why? because as scikar said, i would easily just go find someone else with the gun i want and jack that... cycle of crime
i lost alot more rares in this game then anyone i tell you this back then, but i also gained alot (thinking about dafreak and the rest of xh chasing afer him)
some people dont have many rares thogh,m if they lose one, they are out. I wouldnt use rares. Id use balcksun and lib only if I had a ppu with me. same, id only use CS if i had a big team so i know a freind would grab it.... I refuse to lose rares on death... theres plenty of fools to gank who carry 2 rares, but ill never accept losing one.
Style im 100% with you on this one matey, get rid of belts and safeslot to make pvp much more interesting. If QBs and safe slots were gone something should definatly be done about syncing in and out of zones, Countless times i lost rares to people ganking me whilst ive been syncing.
/edit nerf the parashock :(
but thats just it. It wont be fixed. it wont EVER be fixed. and you will crash and lose rares, and synch and lose rares. Its a problem in the game itself, all games have some bugs, this is ncs, and it wont be fixed. So you are gonna crasha nd lose stuff, another reason its bad.
bah wish it was the old system, logged my tank on for the first time tonight in about 2 weeks, and my cursed soul and speed gun have gone:(
KRIMINAL99
14-10-03, 04:44
Originally posted by VetteroX
fighting before quick belts way retared. lemme tell you AGAIN how it was. player a and player b engage in battle. player b gets down to 80% hp. suddenly he stops moving (hes putting his weapon away) and is killed. I lost only one rare ever before QB system, and that was cause i crashed in an op war, thats it. I ALWAYS hack the belts that are my kills, if you let someone else hack em, tough. if you cant hack, tough. a pe can easily afford hack (pistols can, rifles is a bit harder) and a monk with high int can afford it too. spies obveosly can, and if your a tank, well, make freinds with a spy/pe, or your screwed i guess.
Plus fighting will go way down if you dont have a safe slot. theres a difference between being a wimp and being dumb. let me give an example:
Wimp: someone i cant name because it will proably be edited, but he knows who he is, who is too afraid to fight any where but pp by the zoneline with 2 ppus and other attackers. Will he come help defend tg when we arre raiding? or his allies when we are pking them? no, because he has no copbots to hide under or zones to cross.
Dumb: going out to an area where you will most likey be killed, with a very high chance of losing a rare that was hard work to get.
Theres plenty of ways to get rares as things stand, IVE DONE IT. 1) kill morons who carry 2 rares. just yesturday we got an almost all artifact 2 slot cs, ultimated xheat. how was this lost? beats the HELL out of me, but it keeps happening
2) kill red sl... got a 4 slot cs, and artifact HL. How are they dumb enough to get red and not get the hell out of the area? beats me, but i keep finding them.
3) make people have bad sl... make someone kill vendors by accident etc, then nuke em. you get a rae almost garenteed.
4) kill high level ppus. Maybe no rare, but a 4 slot holy spell is nice too.
If you guys can do this, im sorry for you, but im killing lotsa dumbies and getting rares, and I, being smart and careful lose 0. I love it.
You can hack and get your loot so its just tough for anyone thats a tank or chooses to combat specialize? Or for characters that need to carry more than one weapon type to be effective? Dude just stop talking... I mean for crying out loud you dont even try to hide the fact that it works for you so you don't give a crap if pvp is ruined for everyone else. Hackers don't even get the most loot from their own kills, they usually get it from other ppls kills and drops from players who died from fighting mobs.
Yeah everyone is entitled to their own opinion but this is a perfect example why some peoples opinions arent worth the space they take on the forums. Thanks at least for letting your true colors show instead of trying to hide it behind some watered down bs about it being balanced or something.
Oh and btw I got weapons all the time before the qb rules I don't know what you are talking about that people didn't drop anything. And if you stop to shelf your weapon then you are giving up so its not like a big deal anyway. Not that it matters since qbs could be unlocked but leave the same drop rules now as far as which items drop.
Btw thats a rediculous claim you made vetterro....
And if you stop to shelf your weapon then you are giving up
just like people who give in to the mugger whos stealing someones phone, they might not find it if they dont fight back
Whitestuff
14-10-03, 06:20
OK I did not sift through all the pages to post this, so if it is a double post.....
I like the safe slot. Keeps my valuable whatever I put there safe.
Dropping item on the ground ok. You want my pants, you got em.
PvP in this game sucks. It is either "Look at me! I am capped libby PE of DOOM who can buff up to a mid lvl PPU lvl and own all you little noobs!" OR it is "Look at me! I am capped Tank/APU and I have5877523752475247589 PPUs on my arse to keep me from loosing 1 hit point! U R DED!" I think that PvP should be a selectable option like in Diablo 2. Screw this LE shite altogether. It wastes my time, hard work in clan, and a brain slot (not to mention there are still minor XP nerfs with it that are small BUT NOTICEABLE). I would like to run around, without the XP nerfs, just able to hunt, be in clan and all the stuff that makes the game fun for low/mid players while still not being able to be killed by "uber capped *insert class here* who spends every free minute playing this game so I can own you and direct you and rub it in ur face that I am a looser and have enough time to waste fully capping all my characters on all servers" BS.
Sorry, these are my feelings. It comes from being killed at 20/20 ish lvl repeatedly by stupid @#%$^& who don't care what they are doing to the fan base of this game.
KRIMINAL99
14-10-03, 06:45
Originally posted by WhiteKrAkRBOi
OK I did not sift through all the pages to post this, so if it is a double post.....
@ Karobi the only problem with what you are saying is that this is supposed to be a mmorpg not a single player game. If it was a single player game itd be worth something still BUT its not. It has expensive servers and people have to pay monthly to play it. The single player content is good but the truth is 3 years of development still is about 1-3 months of single player interest. The game needs to be changed so it is based more on player interaction. It was before and the antipk changes undid that. Im willing to bet soon you will have seen everything in the game and get bored.
That reminds me of somehting else the quickbelt changes did. If you get your rares in a really short time and almost never lose them- then there is nothing left to aquire. If you have no goal in the game then suddenly NOTHING in the game has any value to you. And then its boring. But when you know you might lose your weapon then suddenly you don't have the max amount of wealth you could ever need until you have at least 3 of the rare you use...
I completely agree with this thread regarding soloing.
The servers are not exactly crowded therefore teamwork is difficult. Also people are in different countries and on at different times.
I have reached a stage where bunker etc is too easy for me but I cannot handle WB and Fire monsters solo. So I am kind of stuck hanging out for friends to perhaps come online and perhaps being ready to go hunting and perhaps being ready to go hunting with me or with another friend - too many factors
And I also agree, it is so hard to get a poke that at times you are forced to stop playing because you cannot go on without having your implants poked back and no pokers around.
And I agree, the first three months this game really really rocked!
Well it seems I'm in the minoritory on this - thats fine I can deal (for the record saying 'I remember when the numbers dropped and it was after blah blah blah' is subjective and doesnt hold and water IMO)
Anyway seems to me you guys wont ever be happy - you werent happy with the game system on launch and your not happy with it now (and all points in between).
Chances are you'll never be happy with it (mainly because you are not playing Planetside which is a PvP game and indicates you are not happy with a 100% PvP system either!)
For the record, I prefer the way it is now, the safe slot, the increasing number of dropped items with lower SL, etc. And I dont think the change from the old to the new system had anything to do with the drop in player numbers.
To give NC a new boost of players neocron needs DoY, to get a little new content, and to part the pro- and anti- city factions in a more logical way, and it needs a lot of promotion. The cream on top would be to get finaly a good easy to use, up to date and correct manual, to fix some of the ever roaming bugs, and to finaly get all those item descriptions right and diverse.
Chances are you'll never be happy with it (mainly because you are not playing Planetside which is a PvP game and indicates you are not happy with a 100% PvP system either!)
i like this game so much back in those times what you talk bout? you dont know me
ok, let me say this. planetside is total uter shit, it is a crap version of a FPS that you pay for. and neocron is just the same if there is a safe slot and quickbelt
i will say this only once more, why play a game that you PAY for when you gain the same thing when you kill someone as you do from a FPS or any other fee based game. but, things take a long time to get just to get to combat lvl, and when you are at combat lvl, what is the motivation to pvp? you gain shit, and you loose ALOT of money, there is not even a bounty hunter system to gain money from others, or everyone is in a big clan so they dont bother
people can say to m then why i here because the community was promised neptune 2 months after retail launch, but turns out MJS will rather bring it out when th serevrs fill up more? im cool with that and i guess that is when DoY comes out correct? thas what i would like someone from KK to verify
EDIT> the thing is, alex kruegar. people will still all join DoY or TG and CA will be weak
There are many reasons why people leave MMORPGs, reducing it to topics like the quickbelt-drop-handling is single-minded.
As have been said already, the non-PvP-content is limited. If you don't like PvP and you have seen everything you will probably quit the game for good. I hope KK finds a publisher soon, as DoY will add a lot more content (hopefully :)).
I played the beta4 and it was fun because you had a lot of freedom. Freedom in your character choice (tank with pistol, hightech and heavy weapon ...), freedom in play. All in all it was more fun to play, because you didn't depend on others, at least not as it is now.
Regarding the quickbelt-discussion: For casual players a no-drop-at-all would be best, because if you have nothing to loose you wouldn't be that bothered about getting killed. Maybe they would even participate in combat then. Well, that's just a guess.
The community (has been mentioned somewhere as well) plays an important role. A newbie can have luck and stumble over some friendly persons in the first hours or get ganked and bitched more or less continously. As already said above: This is a game and you play it to have fun. Getting ganked, bitched and whatever as a newbie isn't fun and doesn't increase the player base, actually it does the reverse. Which means it's not only KK's responsibility to work towards a bigger player base, but of every NC player.
... [add a long list of more points here]
PS: @VetteroX: play a monk, then I can call you stupid idiot :p (means: you can't stuff two handful of spells into one slot ... and to be good you need good spells, maybe even more than one rare)
Originally posted by Style
i will say this only once more, why play a game that you PAY for when you gain the same thing when you kill someone as you do from a FPS or any other fee based game. but, things take a long time to get just to get to combat lvl, and when you are at combat lvl, what is the motivation to pvp? you gain shit, and you loose ALOT of money, there is not even a bounty hunter system to gain money from others, or everyone is in a big clan so they dont bother
not everyone want the same thing out of neocron that you, clearly, do.
not everyone wants to obtain items by ganking. not everyone wants to lose items by being ganked.
and to answer your question, PvP is not a means to an end, PvP IS the end. it's not the reward, it's the battle that's the point. of course, that's not the way you see it, and not the way others in this thread see it, but it's the best way to ensure that everyone gets a fair crack at it. you still get to PvP, you often get to PvP against opponents armed with more than one weapon, better still you get to PvP with opponents who will fight to the bitter end and not try to stall and buy time to stow their weapons. i really can't see what isn't fun about that.
you talk about losing money, and yet money is easy to come by - if you spend a bit of time in the game. you talk about having to work to gain rares, but gaining rares is relatively easy too, provided you spend time in the game. your whole reason for arguing for resinstating automatic player weapon drops, seems to be based on the fact that you don't like to spend the time to acquire items and money.
for shame.
Originally posted by s0apy
not everyone want the same thing out of neocron that you, clearly, do.
not everyone wants to obtain items by ganking. not everyone wants to lose items by being ganked.
and to answer your question, PvP is not a means to an end, PvP IS the end. it's not the reward, it's the battle that's the point. of course, that's not the way you see it, and not the way others in this thread see it, but it's the best way to ensure that everyone gets a fair crack at it. you still get to PvP, you often get to PvP against opponents armed with more than one weapon, better still you get to PvP with opponents who will fight to the bitter end and not try to stall and buy time to stow their weapons. i really can't see what isn't fun about that.
you talk about losing money, and yet money is easy to come by - if you spend a bit of time in the game. you talk about having to work to gain rares, but gaining rares is relatively easy too, provided you spend time in the game. your whole reason for arguing for resinstating automatic player weapon drops, seems to be based on the fact that you don't like to spend the time to acquire items and money.
for shame.
Likewise, not everyone wants to have safeslots and QBs and low drop rates....
Why do you think we want Neptune? I would love to see Neptune just because I honestly believe it would attract 50% of the total population of all servers. We want Neptune, and every time we ask for it the threads are filled with people who don't want it crying for DoY and the changes they want. They got their anti-PK patch. So give us Neptune.
___T-X____
14-10-03, 16:18
You introduced clan controlled GR's (by far the most important one)
You have to GR to the underground
You delete turrets in the underground
hence why i cancelled my account and its expired.
Originally posted by Scikar
Likewise, not everyone wants to have safeslots and QBs and low drop rates....
i couldn't agree more. people want different things. but we had literally an endless discussion about PKing from the first day of retail until the QB drop system was finally instigated. and we've seen very little complaint about PKing since. the reason, i suspect, being that far more people are happy with the current system than aren't.
low drop rates? i still don't think they're low, just borked in some fashion.
Originally posted by s0apy
i couldn't agree more. people want different things. but we had literally an endless discussion about PKing from the first day of retail until the QB drop system was finally instigated. and we've seen very little complaint about PKing since. the reason, i suspect, being that far more people are happy with the current system than aren't.
low drop rates? i still don't think they're low, just borked in some fashion.
There aren't any complaints about PKing because all the RPKers left. Now people are complaining that the game is boring and that there is no high level content, but they don't see the correlation.
I just wish we had Neptune, it's way overdue now, it would bring back so many old players, and it wouldn't even affect people who are anti-PvP, except they would see less people. But only the people they love to hate will have left, so they can't exactly complain can they?
I dont think Neptune will make anyone happy (if its an all out PvP server, no safe zones, no LE etc).
Only those with lots of friends and/or who get on the server and powerlevel like mad will prosper, everyone else will just be cannon fodder, you wont get any tradeskillers because everyone would need to spend 100% of the time either tooling up for PvP or taking part in it and at the end of the day you will get bored winning/losing against the same people all the time because the server population is so low (I think alot of you over estimate how many die hard PvP people are playing)
On the bright side at least you'd all have left the other server leaving those of us who arent here solely for the PvP to get on with the rest of the game :-)
Originally posted by Scikar
I just wish we had Neptune, it's way overdue now, it would bring back so many old players, and it wouldn't even affect people who are anti-PvP, except they would see less people. But only the people they love to hate will have left, so they can't exactly complain can they?
i don't hate anyone in this game, but i'd hate to lose all the serious hardcore players to another server. but you're right of course, no one could complain - provided server populations were high enough to support it. which is probably the reason we still don't have neptune.
BlackPrince
14-10-03, 16:52
There won't be any tradeskillers on Neptune? Maybe you have the business sense of a donkey, but on a server where you stand a good chance of dropping your weapon, losing imps, and needing things researched, only a foolish tradeskiller wouldn't go there. The chances of making money are huge for a well known TSer. If its a one char server (please God) even the lowliest of pokers could stand to make good money. TSers will just have to depend on the goodwill of clans for their safety.
Hell, theres even room for TSers to form their own guilds. You kill one of them, guess what? No pokers, ressers, or constructors will have anything to do with you. That could make life miserable for someone in a big hurry.
The good news for neptune is that people like you who want a single player game against an AI and interactive chat interface at the same time will be left on the other servers to die.
Originally posted by BlackPrince
The good news for neptune is that people like you who want a single player game against an AI and interactive chat interface at the same time will be left on the other servers to die.
I was with you right up to this point. You really dont see where I'm coming from do you? What I _dont_ want to be playing is Planetside or any free online FPS game (which is essentially what Nepture would be), what I want to play is a MMORPG where TG players (as an easy example) just as readily RP their 'fight for freedom' rather than just slaughter anyone of a different faction, where players can get through an encounter with a Neutral or opposing runner by other methods than who has the best gun/PPU/rank
In short I'd like to experience some of the other aspects of Neocron than a state of constant PvP
We'll have to agree to disagree on the tradeskillers. I'd never go to Neptune in its suggested form so I'd never know if you were telling me the truth or not if you were right
Something else about Quickbelts that bothers me is that it takes the thrill out of PvP. When you are fighting in PP you just grab your belt when have died and get pokes. If you don't have belts it's way more exciting and also way less idiots zoning in and out in PvP zones cause there is a chance they lose their gun. The only way I got (cancelled account) excited in PvP was when I went to MB alone and have an army of CMs and other enemy factions after me.
Originally posted by 5150
I was with you right up to this point. You really dont see where I'm coming from do you? What I _dont_ want to be playing is Planetside or any free online FPS game (which is essentially what Nepture would be), what I want to play is a MMORPG where TG players (as an easy example) just as readily RP their 'fight for freedom' rather than just slaughter anyone of a different faction, where players can get through an encounter with a Neutral or opposing runner by other methods than who has the best gun/PPU/rank
Right, so you say you don't want to have loads of combat.... then say that you want Roleplay. Well roleplay in this game can quite easily include lots of PvP combat. As it WAS cyberpunk. Neptune would be cyberpunk, it would be even better if they removed rares on neptune right from the beginning. *drools*
Originally posted by 5150
I dont think Neptune will make anyone happy (if its an all out PvP server, no safe zones, no LE etc).
Only those with lots of friends and/or who get on the server and powerlevel like mad will prosper, everyone else will just be cannon fodder, you wont get any tradeskillers because everyone would need to spend 100% of the time either tooling up for PvP or taking part in it and at the end of the day you will get bored winning/losing against the same people all the time because the server population is so low (I think alot of you over estimate how many die hard PvP people are playing)
On the bright side at least you'd all have left the other server leaving those of us who arent here solely for the PvP to get on with the rest of the game :-)
True RPers would ge to Neptune cause Neptune is the dangerous Neocron where you have to watch your step and not trust anyone and stick together with your faction to survive.
how the hell can u compare neocron to planetside, it is more like planeside now with no runner loot bags
and with oyur last statemen your pretty much admittin you hdo not even like combat SO STOP TALKING, if you dont like combat how can you even have an opinion on this
Whats interesting is the number of you eager to point out how combat/conflict (read: PvP) is part of the story/cyberpunk and therefore RP
Ok so I'll conceed this point, but I dont see any of you pushing for any other aspects of Neocrons gameplay.......
Which in itself speaks volumes about your playstyle and prioritories
PvP is a part of 'my world' but nothing but PvP exists in yours....
Originally posted by Style
how the hell can u compare neocron to planetside
Because the only thing you do is kill other players (pretty straightforward if you ask me)
The reason you guys dont like Planetside (and this applies to FPS too) is because its _fair_. Powerlevelling gains you squat in Planetside, there is no newbie ganking - but by the same token the victory is hollow (hence why the game is boring after a while) you guys want a risk/reward which, in other words, means you guys get your kicks out of taking something another player has worked for.
But unless 100% of the players in the game have 'signed up for' that kind of game play (and you can tell Neocron isnt because of the changes that have been made) people are going to be unhappy with it and quit - if this _isnt_ what the devs intended the game play _will_ get changed
Which is all you need to know about _why_ Neocrons gameplay has changed soo much
ok your just looping eveything now, lots of people have explained to you things, and you just keep bringing up the same excuse
i am not even going to reply to your points anymore
all im gona say is if you want a virtual chatroom then go PLAY ANARCHY ONLINE, see i bet you dont like being told to go play another game
cobrajay157
14-10-03, 17:22
Originally posted by Scikar
There aren't any complaints about PKing because all the RPKers left.
D0 u ply sa7urn we rpk al da t71me mvb tg pp crpa rpk get -32 sl all de 71me h1gh 13\/31 cOnTeNt = pk Pk pK thn trsh tlk trd3
@5150
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ] I'm a RPer and I RP also in non-PK ways but PKing is a part of RPing and I like doing it so I do it a lot but I don't like the fact that it isn't bad if you die, it takes the feeling out of game knowing dying doesn't matter. his a cyberpunk world and people should be scared when they walk on the streets of Neocron because it's a dangerous and cruel place.
Originally posted by Style
all im gona say is if you want a virtual chatroom then go PLAY ANARCHY ONLINE, see i bet you dont like being told to go play another game
I'm sorry if you cant handle the fact that someone here has an opinion that doesnt mesh with yours - its called life I suggest you learn to deal with it. Thats seems to be the difference between you and I, as an adult I can handle the fact that others have a different opinion and I am just airing mine. You seem to only try and force your opinions onto others and cant deal with it when someone just wont budge.
I quit AO because it was just a powerlevelling treadmill. The PvP was totally unbalanced and my chosen class was gimped in PvP (but I still had a go)
The one thing that AO did get right was the restriction preventing uber characters engaging in PvP against lower players, the fact that the world was so big and most of the PvP zones were far out meant that the player had loads of control over if they exposed themselves to PvP or not and that is wasnt a total whitewash if they did.
Unfortunately AO also suffered from the fact that most of its players couldnt see past the levelling/PvP
I've also played Eve from the start of retail and was there to watch the unrestricted PvP kill the new playerbase (until they started making life for the PK's more difficult - predictably they all complained too)
With regards to your last comment I rarely play NC anymore - mainly because I hate the fact its difficult to get anything done outside the safe zones (which you cant get much done in) without having to run the guantlet of bored capped PK's all the time (are we having fun yet)
Originally posted by #151988
@5150
[ edited ] I'm a RPer and I RP also in non-PK ways but PKing is a part of RPing and I like doing it so I do it a lot but I don't like the fact that it isn't bad if you die, it takes the feeling out of game knowing dying doesn't matter. his a cyberpunk world and people should be scared when they walk on the streets of Neocron because it's a dangerous and cruel place.
Ok would you care to enlighten us on what RP you do that isnt PK?
The problem with your viewpoint is it is of someone who is established and has a fighting chance in PvP. If it was bad if you die then you wouldnt automatically lose - what you people fail to appreciate is against someone who doesnt stand a chance you just kill them for kicks (they dont have anything you want/need)but that might be a huge setback to the other player - this never occurs to you though because you assume everyone has the same outlook on the game as you do
Then in the next breath you complain about player numbers
I suppose the ultimate test would be to make every character a single life only (i.e. you lose the character and everything he owns on death) and then see how many of you are eager to rumble....... I suspect the game would suddenly become very cyberpunk because people would only attack when the need was 100% justified and other options would be exhausted before everyone went for their guns
or have none of you actually played the cyberpunk RPG?
Originally posted by 5150
Whats interesting is the number of you eager to point out how combat/conflict (read: PvP) is part of the story/cyberpunk and therefore RP
Ok so I'll conceed this point, but I dont see any of you pushing for any other aspects of Neocrons gameplay.......
Which in itself speaks volumes about your playstyle and prioritories
PvP is a part of 'my world' but nothing but PvP exists in yours....
Hey I think that you should take that remark back. Both me and Tir have been roleplaying and trying to organise events for the past year.
I have posted multiple threads about the atmosphere of neocron and how it could be improved.
I agree with style, you are full of BS.
How about YOU get it into your head that other people have different play styles, you appear to be sitting there saying that style has no consideration for other peoples play styles yet you insult his.
BlackPrince
14-10-03, 17:42
Heh they turned Eve from a challenging game into a point & click while I make billions game in complete safety game. We wont mention other the other SNAFU's which went on there, such as handing tech level 2 items over to the largest mega corps in game, allowing blatant cheaters to continue playing, etc.
Its too bad, I really did enjoy it. THe problem was they punished the RP pirates more than the RPKers, and thus about all you have left are Space Invaders for the RPers and a bunch of punk ass kiddies out in the fringes.
so you seen PKs complain in many games eh? so tha means your just going to play the single player aspects of neocron and then leave
Originally posted by Judge
Hey I think that you should take that remark back. Both me and Tir have been roleplaying and trying to organise events for the past year.
I have posted multiple threads about the atmosphere of neocron and how it could be improved.
I agree with style, you are full of BS.
How about YOU get it into your head that other people have different play styles, you appear to be sitting there saying that style has no consideration for other peoples play styles yet you insult his.
No I'm not taking it back (and I'm sorry you took it so hard), I have seen no one here (other than me) trying to explain to people _why_ the PvP changes were made in the first place (i.e. what was _wrong_ with PvP) and I get slammed everytime I try and suggest theres more to Neocron than PvP (I'm hearing PvP is RP but no ones suggesting what _else_ is RP)
Sure I'm slamming Styles outlook - its pretty obvious what his play style is and its the reason the PvP changes were made (the playstyle not him personally) to protect those who didnt want to PvP and try and preserve/encourage the player base. But rather than appreciate that hes part of the 'problem' he just goes on to attack the system. Perhaps had players shown some restraint in the past we wouldnt be where we are now, but they didnt and we are so we just have to deal or quit.
If KK wanted this to be a PvP game than _none_ of the changes would have been made and Neptune would have been with us from the start or one of the existing servers turned into it. KK need customers and all the changes have been made to make this game more accessible - that alone suggests that the PvP crowd isnt the only crowd KK wants playing and/or isnt as big a playerbase as KK want.
I said it before and I'll say it again, I accept PvP is _part_ of the game, but I dont see any of you accepting that there anything else
you diss my play style, but you do not relize how many people like to hunt me down when i was going around neocron doing what i do
and i did not go around flamin people wih this 1337 talk like most pople do now
Originally posted by Style
you diss my play style, but you do not relize how many people like to hunt me down when i was going around neocron doing what i do
hes right, was a great sport HATE brought to neocron, team hunt the pker:D
We know that there are other things apart from PvP, but PvP is meant to be the main part of the game. We are supposed to be playing a fucking cyberpunk game, not some carebear Sci fi game.
Maybe you're right, however, possibly KK have decided to carebear the game. Turn it from a "gritty cyberpunk atmosphere" into a sci fi cyberpunk wanna be game.
Ever stop to consider taht the reason you are the only one explaing why the PvP changes were made is because everyone else in this thread wants the old rules back? So are you saying that because your opinion is obviously so much better than ours because we are just RPKing scum that everyone should listen to you and accept your opnion as the right one?
OLDSCHOOL RULES
so what is it really about? a few comments here hinted at this. is it that we want death to have worse consequences because we want to make our own lives in-game a bit harder and therefore more exciting, or is it because we want to inflict genuine pain on those we PK?
if it's the former, as i'm sure it is for some (i'm not lumping all PKs in together), then good luck to you. the problem is with those who want the latter. and that was one of the problems with PvP in the first few months of retail. there were many who genuinely wanted to screw people over, period. no RP, no cyberpunk, just an inflamed desire to bring some hurt not to the character they ganked, but to the players themselves.
this was typified in the "ha ha ha, i got your EPR you fookin n00b loser" DMs that one tended to get from these people.
the hint is to make neocron a more scary world, instead of people not giving a fuck when they die? and a different game to a FPS
5150, you have just made yourself a hypocrite. I have seen you do this time and again, there will be 10+ people in favour of something like this, and you come along, one person, and then try to act like the majority of the population are against the changes.
Why is it that as soon as someone says they PvP they automatically don't roleplay? You want to know why TGs don't "roleplay freedom fighters?" Let me tell you a little story. Back before GR changes, I used to patrol CRP. I was a TG, I had moved over from CA, mainly because I was fed up with life in the city, and I began to realise I couldn't do anything to affect life in Neocron - because it's a dictatorship. So I joined TG, because I want a democracy. I'm branded a traitor and attacked by people who used to be my friends, just because I don't believe in Reza any more. Then I find the same people hunting in my back yard. So I tell them to fuck off. Have you ever tried to make someone leave as a TG? There's only a few scenarios:
1) I tell them to leave. They laugh at me and attack me, I kill them.
2) I tell them to leave. They say they're only there to level, that I'm a 12 year old CS kiddie and give me weird shit about my mother. I kill them and get more DMs.
3) I tell them if they aren't prepared to join the cause, they're dead meat. They say they'll join TG next time they get the chance, but can they please hunt here for a couple of hours? :rolleyes:
RP is no more prevalent in any other faction. Fact is, RP just isn't supported by the community as a whole, or by the game as a whole. So fuck off with the holier than thou attitude of "You PK therefore you don't RP therefore you are 12 years old."
And I'll tell you, the days of HATE, Style, Starkes and Helmut were the best days of Neocron. Ever since they left, fun in Neocron has gone downhill. I don't get an adrenaline rush any more, Neocron doesn't even touch on my emotions. With guys like them around there was fear - I had something to lose. A rush of excitement when running away. Pride when I killed one. Joy when I got his rare weapon. Disappointment when I lost mine, but hey, the next one's not too much hassle to get. I had genuine fun, there was a real team spirit amongst people fighting against the HATE squad.
You can talk all you want about how there's a non-PvP community, but the fact is, they are the minority, and I am sick and tired of everyone having to give in to those who whine the most. I want my fucking fun back! I want to kill and be killed, to lose items and gain items, to be a gangster and a cop, a theif and a hero, a mercenary and a private detective. None of that works any more, and all because someone cried when they got killed.
I still say the old system sucked. I made the sacrafice on my chars to have hack... so maybe the aim on your rifle cant be 267% or your hl fies at 100/min instead of 105/min.... thats a small sacrafice to get belt items. All I can suggest is they lower the hack req for belts so tanks hack, but i hated the old stsytem. so many times id kill someone, weapon falls, someone else snatches it up... MY KILL but im busy fighting while they are busy looking at the ground pressing use button.
what it comes down to is the old system was better for people who dont have hack, and the new systems good for hackers... my pe hacks, so I like this system.
you either 1) have to make a hacking char or 2) make freinds what a hacker. if u cant do either, then no items for you... i get tons.
Vet explain how you hack a belt when you have 10+ people running around a zone hunting you down, is it actually worth the risk when 90% of the time you will get a peice of armor or something even more shit or if you are fighting more then 1 person in one plaice
Which is why you have a hybrid system.
Quickbelts don't need to be hacked, but have loot rights for 60 seconds or so.
Any item can drop, regardless of whether it's in your quickslots or your inventory (except maybe tools, gotta be nice to tradeskillers now :p).
When an item is removed from a QB, the owner should have a mail sent to them saying what the item was and who took it. Also when you click an empty QB it tells you what item was inside and who took it. That way if you're out hunting with a team and you die, and you come back to find an item missing, you know who it was.
Increase tech part drop rate, we need to both encourage more players to reach the high level part of the game and people will need to replace rares which they lose.
What's wrong with that system?
Oh and you're still forgetting that a tank can't hack QBs. PEs, spies and monks might be able to get away with it but once again, tanks are the ones who get shafted.
Originally posted by VetteroX
I still say the old system sucked. I made the sacrafice on my chars to have hack... so maybe the aim on your rifle cant be 267% or your hl fies at 100/min instead of 105/min.... thats a small sacrafice to get belt items. All I can suggest is they lower the hack req for belts so tanks hack, but i hated the old stsytem. so many times id kill someone, weapon falls, someone else snatches it up... MY KILL but im busy fighting while they are busy looking at the ground pressing use button.
what it comes down to is the old system was better for people who dont have hack, and the new systems good for hackers... my pe hacks, so I like this system.
you either 1) have to make a hacking char or 2) make freinds what a hacker. if u cant do either, then no items for you... i get tons.
Good luck hacking a belt when you are fighting several people at once.
Originally posted by 5150
I'm sorry if you cant handle the fact that someone here has an opinion that doesnt mesh with yours - its called life I suggest you learn to deal with it. Thats seems to be the difference between you and I, as an adult I can handle the fact that others have a different opinion and I am just airing mine. You seem to only try and force your opinions onto others and cant deal with it when someone just wont budge.
You say you act as an adult but aren't you the person who said all PvPers are lamers who get kicks out of killing lowlvls?
For the record I'm not trying to act as a majoritory (which would be a neat trick if I could in this thread) and to cover an earlier point my opinion is actually irrelevant here (I just happen to think it meshes with what KK were trying to aim for).
Its a sad reflection on people today though that they have to turn everything into something hostile - NEWS FLASH people this isnt a poll - the devs arent going to take what the majoritory want and impliment it in the game (even assuming the majoritory of forum visitors was the same as the majoritory of the players). This is a debate, this aint PvP, there is no winner or loser here
Heres how it works:
You put your opinion and I put mine.
We either agree, compromise, conceed or decide the other person just 'doesnt get what I'm saying' - that it., there really is nothing more to see here, this aint a game changing commitee and the devs probably arent even reading this at all/now anyway.
If I walked away from this thread now you wouldnt have 'won' I'd just have decided that I'm made my point and you either got it or you didnt (agreeing or accepting just aint in the equasion)
If you dont like what I'm saying thats fine, either ignore me or debate with me, the minute you stop discussing the valid points and start to discuss what you think of me as a person is the minute I lose repect for everything you said - because you arent capable of being rational. We're talking playstyles here people, please try to remember that.
The easiest way is for me to turn this around - we all know the game got changed and youre not happy with it now, so do me a favour
Ask yourself _why_ the devs made those changes
Then ask why they considered this important enough to do
I'll be over here when youre done.
Originally posted by #151988
You say you act as an adult but aren't you the person who said all PvPers are lamers who get kicks out of killing lowlvls?
So adults arent allowed an opinion anymore? Must have missed the memo
Sorry
5150, the reason that we are getting hostile with you is because of your continuing arrogance.
alone, I have to travel a lot. maybe ill go to el fared. find a lone tanke there, using mal vs pits and cs vs 95/95 scorps not in the pit. I kill him, hope he drops one. If there is a group, i watch from a distance... watch and wait. Wait till 2 or 3 wb are attacking the hunting party of 1 ppu 1 apu 1 pe. watch the ppu.. wait for shelter to go down, attack and kill him, kill apu and pe. i have time to hack the 3 belts.
Now in pepper park, maybe this isnt possible, but pepper park sucks... copbots and zoneing is all it is, screw it. Ill raid the hunting ares.
if not alone, i get a team, we kill people and ill hack, they cover me... simple as that.
I want player location back in citycom, i want safezone removed, I want copbots out of PP, i want a zonng delay so people cant escape death by zoneing. but I want the safe slot to stay and qbs to stay. In that way many more people will fight bcause they wont lose thier most valuable item, (more fighting = fun) but you still have people who carry more then 1 rare. QBs are good cause I can kill one guy then kill the next without thinking "omfg i gotta get ready to look at the ground and click click click!!"
I just got an idea as i was writing this.... i could deal with no hacking if items fell in quickbelt, but no hacking was required. however, only the person who did the most damage could open the belt, or someone who was teamed with the killed runner. Also, this would last for like 10 mins, not like the 30 second thing on warbots, sometimes im going berserk trying to kill as many people as possible and need a little time to access the belt.
I'll never agree to no safeslot though, i think its a req to make people fight more and use rares when they do... the lost one and gank someone 5 mins later for a new one thing is just dumb... id love for someone to show me themselves losing thier only cs, then killing a cs tank 5 mins later with a tpc, then having enough luck that his victoms cs falls.
Originally posted by 5150
So adults arent allowed an opinion anymore? Must have missed the memo
Sorry
It's a lame and stupid opinion.
*blah blah blah blah* illicit sexual activity... *blah blah*
there's a shorter version since no one really cares about what i write anyway...
Originally posted by VetteroX
I want player location back in citycom, i want safezone removed, I want copbots out of PP, i want a zonng delay so people cant escape death by zoneing. but I want the safe slot to stay and qbs to stay.
so basically what u want is no rp, and a pure pvp game......
Originally posted by Judge
5150, the reason that we are getting hostile with you is because of your continuing arrogance.
The problem is that I will always come across to you as arrogant unless/until I change my opinion to the same as yours - thats obviously not going to happen so I guess I'll have to resign myself to being considered arrogant.
And to #151988 I could equally say the same about yours - like I said theres no winning here, only different opinions
I notice now that your are avoiding answering the question - I can only assume you know what the answer is and you dont like it?
No you will always come accross as arrogant if you continue to consider your playstyle and opinions more valid than ours.
Its not a question of being more valid, its a question of _why_ the changes to the game have been made. If anyone has any suggestions for other reasons (thats the ones I've put forward) that these gameplay changes were made I'm all ears
The changes were made becase a certain group of audible whiners decided that this shouldn't actually be a cyberpunk game.
The hunting ground changes were excellent, I will admit. It stopped the ruthless ganking of random Noobs.
The SL changes (dropping more than one item after dead whilst -ve SL) was not needed. If you have red Sl then you can be considered a criminal. Why should criminals drop more stuff than any other person? I don't know. It basically stopped any sort of mercenary or criminal faction from working. But this too was made beacuse a certain group of people decided that it would be good to punish the PvPers of the game.
TheDuckMan
14-10-03, 20:52
I only got the the second page when i just couldnt take it anymore about how NC is dieing. My beliefs are neocron is dieing because everyone says it is. I know I wouldnt wanna play a game that everyone said was dieing and people constantly complained about. Also somone mentioned this game sucks because people wouldnt adapt. Why do other have to adept when your not? This game isnt dieing, its being murdered by a few people.
EDIT/Addition: and about the belts... lemme tell you guys what a GM told me when i got trapped in a door and got pk'd and coultn do anything because the door was hindering my view. The exact words were put the LE in and it wont happen. No I didnt get my 100k compensation or anything like a sorry for your luck.
You have missed the point entirely duck.... we aren't (mostly) saying that Neocron is dying. But it is no longer the Neocron we once new, I don't know how long ago you joined but I don't think that it was in easrly retail (forgive me if I'm wrong) and so you wouldn't realise how much of a change the game has gone through.
The reason that you don't see more complaints like this is because most of the old school PvP vets have left due to specialisation patch and the belt drop etc etc rules. Left in disgust at what Neocron had become :(
Gotterdammerung
14-10-03, 21:42
This is funny, as I read some of these posts I get a mental picture. A bunch of old geezers sitting around the retirement home sharing stories
"I remember back in the day, I had an 8 slotted street rifle and it kicked ass"
and
"I used to solo the Crystal Cave Queen cause poison was borked and boy did I get lots of bones"
and
"Remember when there was no safe slot?"
Etc...Etc...Etc
That Pinning for the "old days of Neocron" could be time better spent, because the law of all evolution is adapt or die. It's not the same now as it was 6 months ago and 6 months from now it will be different still. Everything is an ever evolving process and this game is no different.
None of you strike me as the old geezer type but you guys are painting yourself in to corners like
#1 The game isn't the same as it used to be so I refuse to play but I still post on the forums
#2 The game isn't the same as it used to be but I still play, beef about it and post on the forums
#3 The game isn't the same as it used to be but thats ok. Some changes I don't care for, some I like but I like the game so I adapt and still have a good time.
Anyway, It's just a game, a great game and don't sweat it so badly. Just login, play, hang with your friends and have fun.
BTW: Keep the insults to less then minimum, as i said before, keep it in your pants and leave the egos at the door.
I'm number 2 o_O
We are only making the point that Neocron is no longer really a cyberpunk game anymore. :(
Shadow Dancer
14-10-03, 21:45
^^ I Love you gotter. :angel:
Fact: Neocron used to be a lot more fun.
Fact: There used to be a lot more people playing Neocron.
Fact: The people here aren't trying to impose anything on anyone. We want Neptune, where we can go and play by the rules we want, and people like 5150 can stay on whatever server they want and play by the rules they want. Yet we're the ones who "don't get" other people's arguments. :rolleyes:
Fact: Launch Neptune and many people will return.
5150, I really don't see what your problem is. You disagree with #151988, and he disagrees with you. Do you expect him to suddenly turn around and say "Sorry 5150, you are quite right. Clearly PvP is no fun at all. I shall put my LE in and never speak about PKing again." Likewise, you are not going to suddenly go on a PK spree or a HQ raid. You seem to be unable to realise that someone can have a different opinion to you and still have a valid point.
Gotterdammerung, I fit in somewhere between #2 and #3. IMO, Neocron used to be great. And it still is. But for every good thing that's happened, something bad has happened. Like we've got new rares, but PvP has lost its edge. You GR to the underground of OPs, but the tech part drop rate has been lowered. I haven't left Neocron, but I don't get the same rush from playing it that kept me playing early on. That's why all the stuff with ppus means I've started to log in less. It's not a case of me being bitter, I've just noticed that it's not as much fun as it used to be, and that can only be a bad thing, because if the game isn't fun and exciting, less people will play it.
BlackPrince
14-10-03, 21:49
Scikar for CEO!
You got my Vote.
bibliotequa
14-10-03, 21:58
I agree style, god if the tech drops were raised again, then i really wouldnt mind not having my 1st slot unlocked again, cause i hunt for a few hours ( i do it anyway to lvl my spy) and OMG OMG I HAVE A NEW HOLY LIGHTNING WHAT AN IDEA!!!! You guys where what made nc fun, specially the time i stole starkes' 3 slotted lib, ooh the revenge, and then telling him that no, he couldnt have it back just so he could gank some newbs, i actually felt sorry for him as i said that :( but my god, nc is getting boring, ive started playing planetside, i may move out of nc pretty soon, and what i like most about planetside, is that lvling is fun, fighting is fun, it doesnt take 500 shots to kill a person, and that you are ready to fight again in 10 seconds, just go to the equipment terminal, and *click* you have all your weapons and armor back, ok, i dont want nc to reach this level, still have more rpg in it, but if it would be easier to get the damn rares, i have been hunting for over a month, and i still havent gotten the last part to the special forces (i got one off a freind, traded for 2, and got the other one hunting, but no1 that has the last one, wants to trade it, or sell it...) w/e im loosing my train of thought, so ill stop now :p
Originally posted by 5150
The problem is that I will always come across to you as arrogant unless/until I change my opinion to the same as yours - thats obviously not going to happen so I guess I'll have to resign myself to being considered arrogant.
And to #151988 I could equally say the same about yours - like I said theres no winning here, only different opinions
I notice now that your are avoiding answering the question - I can only assume you know what the answer is and you dont like it?
Err not really. I am talking about a game mechanic and you are talking about PKers being lame people which is something totally different.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
This is funny, as I read some of these posts I get a mental picture. A bunch of old geezers sitting around the retirement home sharing stories
"I remember back in the day, I had an 8 slotted street rifle and it kicked ass"
and
"I used to solo the Crystal Cave Queen cause poison was borked and boy did I get lots of bones"
and
"Remember when there was no safe slot?"
Etc...Etc...Etc
That Pinning for the "old days of Neocron" could be time better spent, because the law of all evolution is adapt or die. It's not the same now as it was 6 months ago and 6 months from now it will be different still. Everything is an ever evolving process and this game is no different.
None of you strike me as the old geezer type but you guys are painting yourself in to corners like
#1 The game isn't the same as it used to be so I refuse to play but I still post on the forums
#2 The game isn't the same as it used to be but I still play, beef about it and post on the forums
#3 The game isn't the same as it used to bem but thats ok. Some changes I don't care fir, some I like but I like the game so I adapt and still have a good time.
Anyway, It's just a game, a great game and don't sweat it so badly. Just login, play, hang with your friends and have fun.
BTW: Keep the insults to less then minimum, as i said before, keep it in your pants and leave the egos at the door.
We just like the old system more so we are whining and with some luck maybe the old system returns or a hybrid system of the old and the new one. The belt system got in after whining too, right?
No I dont expect to change anyones mind here (I thought I'd already covered that), but I am trying to open peoples eyes alittle to why things have changed
Judge was nearest the mark with this
"The changes were made becase a certain group of audible whiners decided that this shouldn't actually be a cyberpunk game."
So now all you have to do is work out why kk decided the changes that this 'audiable group' wanted were neccessary
- hint - it wasnt to shut them up.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
That Pinning for the "old days of Neocron" could be time better spent, because the law of all evolution is adapt or die. It's not the same now as it was 6 months ago and 6 months from now it will be different still. Everything is an ever evolving process and this game is no different.
Succesful evolution in a game requires listening to the community. We are putting forward our opinions as to the evolution of Neocron. I am sure that no-one expects the rules to be put back exactly to the way it was (though some might like it), as that is not KKs way it would seem. What we are aiming for is a hybrid with the good new parts and good old parts.
Originally posted by 5150
So now all you have to do is work out why kk decided the changes that this 'audiable group' wanted were neccessary
- hint - it wasnt to shut them up.
So you are hinting that KK wanted Neocron to no longer be a Cyberpunk game? Then why is the game advertised as Cyberpunk?
8|
neocron went wrong as soon as beta 3 ended
:D
Originally posted by Judge
So you are hinting that KK wanted Neocron to no longer be a Cyberpunk game? Then why is the game advertised as Cyberpunk?
I'm not implying anything (but no thats not what I think, mainly because we all know its a deliberately stupid answer - you cant serious think that can you?!), I'm asking why you guys think they listened to 'the wrong group' and made the changes - all I wanted to screen out was 'because they whined the most' kind of replies (which no one could seriously have suggested)
Oh and #151988 I mean that you think my opinion is lame and that I could say the same about yours - whats those opinoins are is irrelevant as far as that is concerned....
Originally posted by 5150
No I dont expect to change anyones mind here (I thought I'd already covered that), but I am trying to open peoples eyes alittle to why things have changed
Judge was nearest the mark with this
"The changes were made becase a certain group of audible whiners decided that this shouldn't actually be a cyberpunk game."
So now all you have to do is work out why kk decided the changes that this 'audiable group' wanted were neccessary
- hint - it wasnt to shut them up.
You're missing a key point. The people who were whining were all newbies, because it was just after UK retail. HATE were made up of beta and german retail vets. They knew what they were doing, so when players came in from UK retail they were completely outmatched. They didn't like it and they wanted things changed. The changes looked alright for a while, then suddenly everyone wonders why the game isn't fun any more.
You also need to open your eyes and realise that annoying as HATE were, they brought excitement, adrenaline and fun to the game which just doesn't happen any more. I played Neocron then because I was chasing that adrenaline rush. Now I play it because I still have some fun every now and then and because I have a lot of friends who play. But it's less fun now, and as soon as it stops being fun I will most likely quit. And yes, I was having fun even when I got killed, and dropped my brand new rare weapon. I realised early on that that's the way Neocron is supposed to be. Then it all changed.
RESTORE A BETA SERVER - crashes an' all
ppl can then compare the work that has taken place and decide whether the evolution of the game was for better or worse ( I think it will be the former :cool: & I was a beta baby too ) or at least have loads of fun for a while hehe :D
oh yeah HATE owned
oh wait.. that must have been because i was one of them :D
:angel:
I don't want beta, there wasn't any RP in beta and the atmosphere wasn't right. I just want the spirit of early retail. Hell, even Nidhogg played then, now I never see people like him.
I reckon the Neptune should be an "Oldschool Server". With all a old biased hybrid of drop rules and loot drop rates. Of course with all the bug fixes as well. :p
Originally posted by Scikar
You're missing a key point. The people who were whining were all newbies, because it was just after UK retail. HATE were made up of beta and german retail vets. They knew what they were doing, so when players came in from UK retail they were completely outmatched. They didn't like it and they wanted things changed. The changes looked alright for a while, then suddenly everyone wonders why the game isn't fun any more.
Bingo we have a winner! I'm not missing the point that is _exactly_ point-
The game was not fun for _new players_! now had kk only built Neocron to keep hate amused then nothing would have changed - since I suspect kk wanted slightly more customers than this its was guaranteed to have to change
KK are a business and need to make money, it doesnt matter how fun the game is for the few if it isnt fun for the masses and stops new people coming through the and stops them staying it will be changed
Originally posted by 5150
Bingo we have a winner! I'm not missing the point that is _exactly_ point-
The game was not fun for _new players_! now had kk only built Neocron to keep hate amused then nothing would have changed - since I suspect kk wanted slightly more customers than this its was guaranteed to have to change
KK are a business and need to make money, it doesnt matter how fun the game is for the few if it isnt fun for the masses and stops new people coming through the and stops them staying it will be changed
Neocron has no publicity so most of the new players come cause people they know play it and say they should play it too. So if highlvl players get bored they start to see the bad things about the game and start thinking it sucks and tell other people it ain't worth playing cause it gets boring fast as soon as you are capped.
Originally posted by #151988
Neocron has no publicity so most of the new players come cause people they know play it and say they should play it too. So if highlvl players get bored they start to see the bad things about the game and start thinking it sucks and tell other people it ain't worth playing cause it gets boring fast as soon as you are capped.
ok and your point is?......
KRIMINAL99
15-10-03, 01:04
Originally posted by 5150
Bingo we have a winner! I'm not missing the point that is _exactly_ point-
The game was not fun for _new players_! now had kk only built Neocron to keep hate amused then nothing would have changed - since I suspect kk wanted slightly more customers than this its was guaranteed to have to change
KK are a business and need to make money, it doesnt matter how fun the game is for the few if it isnt fun for the masses and stops new people coming through the and stops them staying it will be changed
No you are missing the point... you missed the quote you just quoted. The game isnt fun anymore cause of the pk nerfs not because people were pking. He never said it wasnt fun for the new players. It WAS fun for the new players even as they were pked. I REMEBER being in that situation, I just happen to be a little more mature than most. Instead of perpetuating the lie to myself that there was something wrong with it, instead of hypocrytically trying to claim that this aggressive act of pking is/was wrong while playing a competive game were I hoped to beat other people, I ADAPTED. And so would have others if they knew that they could get know where by whining to gms and on the forums. UO was the absolute worst game of all for ganking, but the gms told people thats the way the game works so don't whine to us just because you died to someone.. instead learn how to play the game and enjoy it- so people adapted. And UO became popular.
What is so hypocrytical about people like yours viewpoint? Very simple. All aggresive acts are caused by fear. They also cause more fear in the recieving person (if they are effective) than was the cause of the aggressive act in the first place. Nothing stops this either than guilt (usually when something bad has happened) or a good deal of time and removal from the situation. Bottom line is all aggresive acts just move toward someone getting killed or seriously hurt. So if youve ever talked about someone behind their back, flamed someone on the forums, hit someone, made fun of someone etc., dont complain about being pked in a video game. In fact be happy if you don't get shot one day irl for not lashing out at other people for your own fears.
Now, true probably no one has abstained from aggresive acts their entire life. But it doesn't even take that much abstaining to get people to leave you alone, as aggresive acts of any scale cause guilt when the aggressor realizes that the recipient harbors no ill feelings towards the aggressor. Anotherwords probably no pker would continue to pk someone if the person just asked the pker normally "Can you not pk me?"... If that person then wants to complain about pking then OK- but they probably wouldnt be playing a competive game like neocron.
The closest person I ever ran into like that got a couple friends and came back after being pked and when I somehow managed to kill all of them, THEN she asked if I could not attack her cause she just wants to level. And I left her alone anyway from then on.
But if you curse out a enemy assailant for 20 minutes for doing his job, make fun of people in game, or have pked people yourself before because you thought they "deserved" it, then take your complaints somewhere else cause noone wants to hear it.
It WAS fun for the new players even as they were pked
You are making a lot of untrue assumptions. For every post like yours there is another that disagrees, and this was very true about UO. You are ignoring facts when you ignore all the posts from the unhappy players that didn't want to be PKed. There were a lot of people who didn't want to have a gameplay style forced on them, but I notice that the PK advocates somehow ignore the existance of those players when they make sweeping yet untrue statements about how "everyone" likes the PK game.
If you actually leave this forum and go out and get the opinions of other players in a wider selection of CRPG forums you will find a lot of people who left NC or never played it because of the PK situation at the beginning.
The "golden age" of NC PKs is one of the causes of the game having so few customers as many people don't want to have to fight some asshat who gets off on killing lower level characters, so the premise that the market wants a hard core PK game can be shown to be untrue.
KRIMINAL99
15-10-03, 01:30
Originally posted by Alex Mars
You are making a lot of untrue assumptions. For every post like yours there is another that disagrees, and this was very true about UO. You are ignoring facts when you ignore all the posts from the unhappy players that didn't want to be PKed. There were a lot of people who didn't want to have a gameplay style forced on them, but I notice that the PK advocates somehow ignore the existance of those players when they make sweeping yet untrue statements about how "everyone" likes the PK game.
If you actually leave this forum and go out and get the opinions of other players in a wider selection of CRPG forums you will find a lot of people who left NC or never played it because of the PK situation at the beginning.
If they don't like it then why are they here? Where is their LE? THey are here to fight and compete just like everyone else.
Saying they didn't want to pk is like saying
THEY WANTED TO PLAY BUT DIDNT WANT TO LOSE
Every new player I ever met, (And Ive been playing for a long time and ran a clan specifically for new players) complained about pking early in the game but became pkers later on themselves.
Im sure there was just as many immature people in UO who wanted to whine instead of adapt as there is here. But nevertheless the game was hardcore PVP AND very succesful. The company never gave in to the childish demands and the game was more succesful than NEOCRON where KK did. Imagine that.
Also people leave because the game gets boring. They may not know why it got boring, most people probably don't bother to spend the time thinking about it. But I do. Im not saying I or anyone else liked being pked (Its losing, losing sux) , Im saying it didn't make the game unfun. The game being boring makes the game unfun. Being pked is something that causes fear/anger not boredom. When players were angry because they got pked, they only threatened to leave as an immature way to try and get what they wanted. When they realized the game was boring they actually did leave. I have seen relatively (compared to the number of people who left) few people who have left that said it was partly because there was too much pking in the game. One of those people I remember at the actual time he left saying that it was cause the game was just no fun.
PS.. I love how you make the assumption that I don't keep track of other peoples opinions at the same time you accuse me of making assumptions.
i remember a lot of people leaving the game at was it patch 160, cant remember, but ive not seen many people leave cos they got pkd, sure maybe a few did, but not many imo and ive seen a lot of clan mates leave, from my early CA days to Crahn to TG back to crahn to mercs to BD, along that journey a lot of people left that i knew, but never for the "i got pk'd"reason
i got killed 2 times the very first day i played i was 0/2 getting pwned, i didnt like it but i didnt complain, i didnt come here and mouth of that id been pk'd, o got on with the game and i learned from the situation.
then as i played more it got exciting.
back when you could kill in the sewers me and another CA clan mate where leveling when a TS gal shot us we turned and attacked her til she started saying stop dont kill me bla bla bla so we did, we there to level, then 2 mins later her clan leader a hybrid monk, high level fire beams my ass.
you know what i actually didnt mind, it was the first time id seen a fire beam :lol: but after all the Pk stuff im still here
back then i didnt even think to Pk people.
i also remember attacking _Uman_ in outzone station and him laughing at my pitiful energy attack shortley before i ran off :D
but my point kinda is most of the fun memories ive got are predominanly early retail and mostly Pk PvP stuff
I've read aloy of valid points in past 2 pages and really have not much more to say
but Gotter, we are not asking for neocamp to change. we ask for NEPTUNE where the people who prefer the rules we talk about, and the people who prefer the neocamp rules can stay on the server they are on :)
that way everyone is happy! and more players will come back
i post in the first plaice to request if neptune could be released along with DoY and if this is possible? i personally request if we can get word from MJS him self and if he can have a read through this thread. if he is not reading the forum can someone who is in contact with him regurly please ask him to have thoughts about neptune :)
i mean he said him self KK are in a good finance situation, and gettin a new publisher could this possibly be a bonus with the right publisher :)
KRIMINAL99
15-10-03, 04:40
I just wanted to make one more small point-
I noticed someone had mention EVE online and how they nerfed pvp in that game much in the same way they have here.
I have been hearing from many people recently that the EVE economy has staginated because the MAJORITY of the players no longer need any more of that mineral for ship upgrading, and have very little threat of losing their status. Basically any player can reach total uberness in the game really quickly and then the game no longer has a point as if you had just beaten a single player game.
That is exactly what happened to Neocron. No chance of losing weapon = 3 week total uberness from character roll = total lack of interest. Before even if you got to the point where you had everything in the game you could easily lose your weapon in a heartbeat so the game contiued to be fun.
And about what Style just said thats a great point... you can satisfy both camps... (although I bet everyone plays neptune when it comes) I mean there is about 3 English servers now with populations at primetime half of what the most popular servers where at the beginning of retail. Why can't we have a Neptune? Style is living proof that some cancelled players would come back if this server is implemented, and I know many players off the top of my head that said they would come back for Neptune. I know if I leave soon, which I very well may, Ill be revisiting because of Neptune not DOY.
It seems to me at least having Neptune instead of two identical 4 character servers nowhere near max capacity could be nothing less than good business practice....
TheDuckMan
15-10-03, 05:08
deleted post... this discussion isnt going anywhere :o
Originally posted by TheDuckMan
All of those those look like opinions to me.
But these "opinions" are backed up by many people...
Too many people who started with NC during its beta stages are missing something now in NC. NC changed, in many cases changed into a game that is just too different from what these people, like myself, did know as NC.
I think some people are too lazy to acquire their own weapons and need to resort to ganking distracted or outnumbered people to get their rares.......
I used to think Neptune was a good idea.....
Not any longer, tho....
Some peoples motives are crystal clear now.....
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
If they don't like it then why are they here? Where is their LE? THey are here to fight and compete just like everyone else.
Saying they didn't want to pk is like saying
THEY WANTED TO PLAY BUT DIDNT WANT TO LOSE
Every new player I ever met, (And Ive been playing for a long time and ran a clan specifically for new players) complained about pking early in the game but became pkers later on themselves.
Im sure there was just as many immature people in UO who wanted to whine instead of adapt as there is here. But nevertheless the game was hardcore PVP AND very succesful. The company never gave in to the childish demands and the game was more succesful than NEOCRON where KK did. Imagine that.
Also people leave because the game gets boring. They may not know why it got boring, most people probably don't bother to spend the time thinking about it. But I do. Im not saying I or anyone else liked being pked (Its losing, losing sux) , Im saying it didn't make the game unfun. The game being boring makes the game unfun. Being pked is something that causes fear/anger not boredom. When players were angry because they got pked, they only threatened to leave as an immature way to try and get what they wanted. When they realized the game was boring they actually did leave. I have seen relatively (compared to the number of people who left) few people who have left that said it was partly because there was too much pking in the game. One of those people I remember at the actual time he left saying that it was cause the game was just no fun.
PS.. I love how you make the assumption that I don't keep track of other peoples opinions at the same time you accuse me of making assumptions.
They are probably not here (I still stand by my statement that they would have left before kk got the changes in).
The LE (in the old days) was far to restrictive to offer a 'full' game play experience (by that I means everything except PvP) and most would have taken it out because they were told to (by experienced players - read what you like into that) or because it was gimping them (thats before we mention the hordes of players who verbally greif you for having it in).
What you have to remember is that NC is advertised (on the box and website if nowhere else) as a MMORPG (with a FPS-style combat system) not an FPS (such as BF1942 or Planetside) so these players will have complained about the rampant PvP because its not what they thought they were signing up for - its not a case of wanting to fight and not lose, its a case of wanting to play and not fight (at that particular point in time)
The defence that players became PK or anti-PK (as Styles also brought up earlier) is hardly grounds for validating the PK behaviour, people would have taken up anti-PK as a self defence or revenge tactic (usually when they werent powerful enough solo to do it) this was not how they planned to play the game but unfortunately they are playing into the PK's hand - this kind of 'hunt' is exactly the kind of pulse-racing gameplay the PK wants, his tactic has worked so hes going to keep doing it. Those that become PK's themselves were either planning on doing it from the start anyway or just decided if you cant beat them, join them.
Its funny how people blame the whiners for changes - seriously do you think a developer makes changes to a game they _thought_ was done just because a few people moan about it (hint - you can never please 100% of the players all the time so its not worth even trying) KK are the only ones who know the subscribers numbers (different to the number of players online) and the only ones who know the content of support emails - the forum is just the tip of the iceberg. If the 'carebear crowd' (for want of a better name) were so loud on the forum that everyone saw the message you can bet that kk got the message even louder through lost subscriptions and support calls - why would they have made these changes otherwise? If people moan but keep paying its not that cruicial an issue (because they cant be _that_ unhappy)
In a way I feel sorry for you guys, you are obviously genuinely unhappy with the current ruleset (compared to previously) but you just cant see that KK _had_ to make these changes in order to try and retain the current player numbers and encourage/retain ner players. Dont fool yourselves, like any other company they are in business to make money and the number of players that _were_ happy obviously wasnt in line with KKs desired player numbers
Going back to Eve (I brought it up) PKing was rife about a month into retail, the PKs had even got to the point of killing brand new players as they left the station (please tell me how you could think this was fun or encouraging for the victim to keep playing?) so CCP cracked down on the PK's in the newbie zones - the result was that the PKs were pushed back into 'wild' space (where the gameplay is alot harder on them) and they all went to the boards bitching about the game changes (sound familar?) - I think the lesson here is reap what you sow and that the developer is only, ultimately interested in getting players into the game and keeping them there
Originally posted by Spoon
I think some people are too lazy to acquire their own weapons and need to resort to ganking distracted or outnumbered people to get their rares.......
I used to think Neptune was a good idea.....
Not any longer, tho....
Some peoples motives are crystal clear now.....
Honestly, what's wrong with that? I wouldn't play like that myself but I don't see a problem with someone who does, if IRL you were trying to steal someone's uber leet gun which he always has strapped to him would you fight him face to face, shoot him in the back, or go earn your own? Some people would do the first, some would do the last, and some would shoot him in the back. What's wrong with that happening in Neocron?
KRIMINAL99
15-10-03, 17:05
Originally posted by 5150
They are probably not here (I still stand by my statement that they would have left before kk got the changes in).
The LE (in the old days) was far to restrictive to offer a 'full' game play experience (by that I means everything except PvP) and most would have taken it out because they were told to (by experienced players - read what you like into that) or because it was gimping them (thats before we mention the hordes of players who verbally greif you for having it in).
What you have to remember is that NC is advertised (on the box and website if nowhere else) as a MMORPG (with a FPS-style combat system) not an FPS (such as BF1942 or Planetside) so these players will have complained about the rampant PvP because its not what they thought they were signing up for - its not a case of wanting to fight and not lose, its a case of wanting to play and not fight (at that particular point in time)
The defence that players became PK or anti-PK (as Styles also brought up earlier) is hardly grounds for validating the PK behaviour, people would have taken up anti-PK as a self defence or revenge tactic (usually when they werent powerful enough solo to do it) this was not how they planned to play the game but unfortunately they are playing into the PK's hand - this kind of 'hunt' is exactly the kind of pulse-racing gameplay the PK wants, his tactic has worked so hes going to keep doing it. Those that become PK's themselves were either planning on doing it from the start anyway or just decided if you cant beat them, join them.
Its funny how people blame the whiners for changes - seriously do you think a developer makes changes to a game they _thought_ was done just because a few people moan about it (hint - you can never please 100% of the players all the time so its not worth even trying) KK are the only ones who know the subscribers numbers (different to the number of players online) and the only ones who know the content of support emails - the forum is just the tip of the iceberg. If the 'carebear crowd' (for want of a better name) were so loud on the forum that everyone saw the message you can bet that kk got the message even louder through lost subscriptions and support calls - why would they have made these changes otherwise? If people moan but keep paying its not that cruicial an issue (because they cant be _that_ unhappy)
In a way I feel sorry for you guys, you are obviously genuinely unhappy with the current ruleset (compared to previously) but you just cant see that KK _had_ to make these changes in order to try and retain the current player numbers and encourage/retain ner players. Dont fool yourselves, like any other company they are in business to make money and the number of players that _were_ happy obviously wasnt in line with KKs desired player numbers
Going back to Eve (I brought it up) PKing was rife about a month into retail, the PKs had even got to the point of killing brand new players as they left the station (please tell me how you could think this was fun or encouraging for the victim to keep playing?) so CCP cracked down on the PK's in the newbie zones - the result was that the PKs were pushed back into 'wild' space (where the gameplay is alot harder on them) and they all went to the boards bitching about the game changes (sound familar?) - I think the lesson here is reap what you sow and that the developer is only, ultimately interested in getting players into the game and keeping them there
5150 forget what you think they would have done, THEY DIDNT. They left when the game got boring....
And neocron is advertised and always was as a PVP based game set in a gritty cyberpunk world. The people who have been dissapointed by the advertising are the pvpers. And the difference between a PVP mmorpg and a FPS is that in the rpg version your character has meaning, wealth a purpose, and exists outside of combat. Which is lots more fun than a FPS btw.
About the LE.. The LE is a decent tradeoff. The problem is people don't weigh the sole thing the LE does - ie prevent you from being PKED as worth anything. So of course its not a fair trade off in their mind if its not worth anything. Its like people figure they wont get killed its not that big of a deal- WHY? Because other players give them that idea. WHY? Because KK encouraged that type of thinking by the gms acting like pking wasnt part of the game- whereas if KK stuck to their original guns about the issue by telling people that pking is part of the game then the LE would have been considered a decent tradeoff.
IMO The main cause of the LE problem was KK using community volunteers for gms. I remember being threatened by gms before just for pking way back in the early days of retail. Meanwhile the game is being advertised as PVP based. Thats because they chose diehard carebears as gms for their desire to build the community and then didn't restrict them from injecting their opinions into the game world. So they are sitting there listening to complaints about pking like "Oh thats terrible!" When they should have been telling players "Yes that is how the game works. Feel free to use your LE if its a problem"
Id be willing to bet 100$ that KK had no clue if anyone was actually leaving the game for good because of pking. (because I know very few people DID leave the game becuase of it) Most likely they were just responding to immature emails and forum spam from the surge of new players that hadnt adapted to the game yet.
Yes styles is right People became antipk or pk before the nerfs. Now what are they? Bored.... Btw dont be confused... we are not on the defence here, you are. Most of your arguments you just make up and are wrong, and almost noone agrees with you it seems.
Yes KK makes changes for immature whiners. Yes its based on the number of people with a certain opinion. What they should do is have a design anylyst of some type analyse the game and do what they have to to make it fun. But they don't. Now we are the majority (We are also right but that doesn't matter if KK only makes changes based on the majority's opinion) because those people all left because THEY made the game boring with their unthoughtout immature demands for nerfing pking. Hopefully this time they will learn that if anything at all forum spam and emails filled with nothing better than " DARN PKARS!!!111 THEY ARE THE STUPID L33T WANNABEES!!! NERF THEM!!" are only an indication that the situation needs to be analysed not just changed to suit such demands, whereas only well thought out posts can be taken as even remotely having direct meaning. What they SHOULD have done is force their GMS to encourage LE use and explain that pking is part of the game.
About EVE once again you are misinforming about where the newbie zones ends an the rest begins. They nerfed Pvp way beyond what they should have and now their game wrecked just as bad as this one is. And btw have no doubt that the game is wrecked. It wont survive much longer if nothing is done about the lack of fun involved. Do you think THATS what any developer wants?
Games NEED some chaos. If there is nothing stopping you from getting to the end, nothing challenging you when you get there, its no fun and the game is over.
Originally posted by 5150
The LE (in the old days) was far to restrictive to offer a 'full' game play experience (by that I means everything except PvP) and most would have taken it out because they were told to (by experienced players - read what you like into that) or because it was gimping them (thats before we mention the hordes of players who verbally greif you for having it in).
Thats because KK wanted (then) for someone to not take part in PvP to have -ves put on them.... guess why? Because this is a PvP game.
Originally posted by 5150
What you have to remember is that NC is advertised (on the box and website if nowhere else) as a MMORPG (with a FPS-style combat system) not an FPS (such as BF1942 or Planetside) so these players will have complained about the rampant PvP because its not what they thought they were signing up for - its not a case of wanting to fight and not lose, its a case of wanting to play and not fight (at that particular point in time)
You buy a cyberpunk game and expect not to be killed? Oooookay... I was surprised when I found out that there was an LE chip. Anyway rampant PKing was stopped with the hunting ground change (which I agree'd with).
Originally posted by 5150
The defence that players became PK or anti-PK (as Styles also brought up earlier) is hardly grounds for validating the PK behaviour, people would have taken up anti-PK as a self defence or revenge tactic (usually when they werent powerful enough solo to do it) this was not how they planned to play the game but unfortunately they are playing into the PK's hand - this kind of 'hunt' is exactly the kind of pulse-racing gameplay the PK wants, his tactic has worked so hes going to keep doing it. Those that become PK's themselves were either planning on doing it from the start anyway or just decided if you cant beat them, join them.
So we need to validate PKing actions now do we? You make a massive assumption that all the people who were anti-pk in role didn't set out to be that. I know a few people who set out to become "police" within Neocron. Mainly because they would be a good reputation and still partake in massive amounts of PvP.
Originally posted by 5150
In a way I feel sorry for you guys, you are obviously genuinely unhappy with the current ruleset (compared to previously) but you just cant see that KK _had_ to make these changes in order to try and retain the current player numbers and encourage/retain ner players. Dont fool yourselves, like any other company they are in business to make money and the number of players that _were_ happy obviously wasnt in line with KKs desired player numbers
Oh you feel sorry for us, how nice. I hope you don't mind if we reject your arrogant sympathy.
Originally posted by 5150
Going back to Eve (I brought it up) PKing was rife about a month into retail, the PKs had even got to the point of killing brand new players as they left the station (please tell me how you could think this was fun or encouraging for the victim to keep playing?) so CCP cracked down on the PK's in the newbie zones - the result was that the PKs were pushed back into 'wild' space (where the gameplay is alot harder on them) and they all went to the boards bitching about the game changes (sound familar?) - I think the lesson here is reap what you sow and that the developer is only, ultimately interested in getting players into the game and keeping them there
That sounds reasonable.... yet not connected to neocron in any way. PKers were stopped from killing people right on their doorstep for two reasons:
1) LE, you most likely wouldn't have taken out for LE by that time unless you were experienced.
2)Unless you are a criminal faction or one of the factions with the warning in the faction notes on startup then you would start out in a safe area.
PKers have always been in the "wild spaces" in Neocron, either out in the wastes or in Pepper park. You go there and you should be damn bloody careful.
My theories on why the game got changed hold more water than 'KK listed to whiners' (please tell me you dont really believe that) - granted no ones going to know the real reason why unless KK come here and post it (which I doubt for one minute they will)
Fact is the RP crowd _and_ the PvP crowd are _both_ minorities. Casual players are what brings player numbers up and its folly to think the developer wont do what they can to make the game accessible to them - you guys might be the majoritory _now_ but you guys obviously arent enough to justify Neptune (because its not here) and this game obviously isnt PvP-enough to draw in more FPS and planetside players and its obviously too PvP to drawn in more RP players. Rock and hard place and the only way out is going to be through some kind of change.
Sure KK may have changed their 'vision' but I'd again ask you to ask yourself why they changed it
Oh and on Eve I am dead right - I was there when the newbies hit the forums complaining about the PKing right outside the newbie stations (all thanks to M00), I watched the player numbers drop, I watched the devs ramp up the NPC reaction to 'pirates' in newbie space and I watched as the pirates took their turn to run to the forums and bitch (but everyone one else was happy) - now granted it pretty much killed Eve, the reason for this is, beyond PvP Eves gameplay is very hollow. I would however argue that beyond PvP Neocrons gameplay isnt/wasnt hollow (or the LE users would just have quit because they were bored)
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Games NEED some chaos. If there is nothing stopping you from getting to the end, nothing challenging you when you get there, its no fun and the game is over.
Well I have to disgree on the point that I dont believe MMORPGs have an 'end'. I'll go back to a previous statement, if all you play Neocron for is to cap and PvP why, seriously, arent you playing Planetside?
Originally posted by 5150
Fact is the RP crowd _and_ the PvP crowd are _both_ minorities.
And of course they are mutually exclusive right?
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Judge
Thats because KK wanted (then) for someone to not take part in PvP to have -ves put on them.... guess why? Because this is a PvP game.
Well the core issue here is that we dont agree thats its a PvP game, IMO is a MMORPG with PvP that has FPS interface
Originally posted by Judge
You buy a cyberpunk game and expect not to be killed? Oooookay... I was surprised when I found out that there was an LE chip. Anyway rampant PKing was stopped with the hunting ground change (which I agree'd with).
Go back and read it again the (at that point) is quite pivotal - let me put it to you this way, Reza keeps me safe in the city, but prior to the hunting zone change (which we seem to agree was good) what is there to do in the city?
In your view if I care not for PvP I should be excluded from every other part of the game (if there were no LE or I took it out to not be gimped) or I just have to accept that player much higher than me will kill me in 3 shots if I stick my nose outside a safe zone - are we having fun yet? (of course if you only look at NC as a PvP game than this is a moot point to you - perhaps that is the real issue here)
Originally posted by Judge
So we need to validate PKing actions now do we? You make a massive assumption that all the people who were anti-pk in role didn't set out to be that. I know a few people who set out to become "police" within Neocron. Mainly because they would be a good reputation and still partake in massive amounts of PvP..
Styles was the one trying to 'validate' PKing because it gave other runners something to do - so your beef is with him here
Originally posted by Judge
That sounds reasonable.... yet not connected to neocron in any way. PKers were stopped from killing people right on their doorstep for two reasons:
1) LE, you most likely wouldn't have taken out for LE by that time unless you were experienced.
2)Unless you are a criminal faction or one of the factions with the warning in the faction notes on startup then you would start out in a safe area.
PKers have always been in the "wild spaces" in Neocron, either out in the wastes or in Pepper park. You go there and you should be damn bloody careful.
Its connected because, in your perfect NC, there are no safe zones and no LE, and the Eve example shows how a developer _must_ and _will_ change a game to keep the playerbase and keep it growing. Since this was the case Eve obviously _wasnt_ touted as a PvP game and again I'll suggest that neither was NC (or we wouldnt have had this problem)
Or to put it another way, you'd never see this discussion on the Planetside boards and that should tell you something about the kind of players NC attracts and Planetside attracts.
Originally posted by Judge
And of course they are mutually exclusive right?
:rolleyes:
Where did I say that?
What I will say is that its extremely difficult to keep both happy within the same game (best attempt at this thus far IMO is AO)
Just as a kind of underscore to what am I saying I'll quote a current post about someone who is dispointed in NC and hasnt been playing long
Originally posted by Crashtec
I have been playing Neocron often for the last 2 or 3 weeks and have been very excited about playing. I have been leveling inside the city and outzone areas looking forward to the exploration of the wastelands.
While experimenting without the LE chip implant I was slaughtered by someone who understandably was an enemy faction to mine but multi levels higher. Death means very little and the obvious solution was to re-implant the LE chip, so I am not in the least bothered.
This is pretty much the first thing he complains about, now I'll conceed he says hes not bothered and he will put back in his LE, but later he complains about getting killed miles away in the wastelands, had this been at the hands of this runner his anger would have been at the player and not the games system, had he been in a clan (or wanted to be) putting the LE back in wouldnt be an option.
Think about it - this is a _new_ player. Not someone whos been everywhere and done everything and is bored and quitting, but new blood ready to walk out the door because some things in the game are too much of a barrier for him to put up with (yes people can have unrealistic expectations but this guy doesnt seem to) and one of the _first_ things he mentioned was getting PKed by a massively higher runner
Which goes to show _why_ kk make changes to the game, to keep people like him, new players, playing NC. People like him is where this game need to be pitched at, people like him is what are needed if you guys ever want Neptune.
you taking what he said and twisting it, his problem was he died and couldnt use a Gr to get to his vehicle not the fact he died
Originally posted by Scikar
Honestly, what's wrong with that? I wouldn't play like that myself but I don't see a problem with someone who does, if IRL you were trying to steal someone's uber leet gun which he always has strapped to him would you fight him face to face, shoot him in the back, or go earn your own? Some people would do the first, some would do the last, and some would shoot him in the back. What's wrong with that happening in Neocron?
To me there's a big differance between similarly ranked characters fighting or challaging them or kicking them out of their HQ, and going around ganking lowbies.....
I think it's pretty lame to go around a gank lowbie spies in the back while they are searching though rotten boxes for junk, then start whining because you have to hack their belt to get that med-kit or stilletto they just dropped...
One word comes to mind: llama......
KRIMINAL99
15-10-03, 17:57
Originally posted by 5150
My theories on why the game got changed hold more water than 'KK listed to whiners' (please tell me you dont really believe that) - granted no ones going to know the real reason why unless KK come here and post it (which I doubt for one minute they will)
Fact is the RP crowd _and_ the PvP crowd are _both_ minorities. Casual players are what brings player numbers up and its folly to think the developer wont do what they can to make the game accessible to them - you guys might be the majoritory _now_ but you guys obviously arent enough to justify Neptune (because its not here) and this game obviously isnt PvP-enough to draw in more FPS and planetside players and its obviously too PvP to drawn in more RP players. Rock and hard place and the only way out is going to be through some kind of change.
Sure KK may have changed their 'vision' but I'd again ask you to ask yourself why they changed it
Oh and on Eve I am dead right - I was there when the newbies hit the forums complaining about the PKing right outside the newbie stations (all thanks to M00), I watched the player numbers drop, I watched the devs ramp up the NPC reaction to 'pirates' in newbie space and I watched as the pirates took their turn to run to the forums and bitch (but everyone one else was happy) - now granted it pretty much killed Eve, the reason for this is, beyond PvP Eves gameplay is very hollow. I would however argue that beyond PvP Neocrons gameplay isnt/wasnt hollow (or the LE users would just have quit because they were bored)
Well I have to disgree on the point that I dont believe MMORPGs have an 'end'. I'll go back to a previous statement, if all you play Neocron for is to cap and PvP why, seriously, arent you playing Planetside?
Actually KK posted that there were plenty of accounts all throughout that time. The last thing they posted a while after the PK nerfs was that there was lots of accounts still but noone was logging in (Duh the game used to be fun and now its boring its taking time to realize it) Now everyday someone throws all theirstuff from plaza1 cause the game isnt fun anymore.
The PVP crowd is not a "minority". 95 % of everyone that doesn't leave the game in a month after experiencing all the single player content is in the pvp crowd. And KK didnt develop the game for the people who only stay for a month. Not to mention all the people that would come back if NEPTUNE was finally implemented. (BTW Neptune was originally supposed to be implemented a couple weeks after retail... ) :rolleyes:
You are dead right but you just agreed with everything I said? Yeah that makes sense :rolleyes: You admit EVE was ruined after their PVP nerfs but then claim that the game is only failing because it has hollow gameplay? Jeesus what is wrong with you... THE GAME WAS FUN BEFORE AND NOW ITS NOT. You can't say EVE had hollow gameplay before when it was fun for everyone!!! Considering your proven ability to completely ignore facts when claiming that players leave because of pking in Neocron, I seriously doubt there is any truth to your statement about players leaving EVE because of pvp. But all I have to do to be sure is go ask my friends that play it.
Neocron has about a months worth of single player content. (Give or take depending on the persons video game experience) Thats what LE users can experience. After that player interaction is the only thing that can keep the game fun. During that first month tho people are concentrated on experiencing the single player content, and if they are pked they are going to be frusterated because they werent ready to enter the PVP phase yet. The solution is make sure that new players are REALLY being encouraged to use the LE. In fact I see no reason why the LE should have any penalties except to prevent PVP exploits using it. Boredom alone would be enough to make people want to take it out eventually. Although being able to power level a character and then have him be killable only at max level is somewhat of a PVP exploit....
Everyone has a goal when they play a game of any type. The trick is the goal should never be fully reachable. Because if it is fully reached then THE GAME IS OVER, ENDED, KAPUT. There is nothing left to motivate you to be there. How does your statement have any meaning whatsoever in your mind? Planetside has no goal in it thats why it gets boring so fast. In Neocron your goal is to get a via 3 apt, lots of vehicles, all the uber weapons for your class and keep them as long as you can. If you can get all that in a month and none of it is at risk then the game is over because you have no more motivation to play it.
Do you really think that KK pays all this money to have servers etc and run a MMORPG as opposed to a single player game for ANYONE to NOT play for Player Interaction/PVP?
EDIT: FOR GOD SAKES MAN!!! You just quoted someone who specifically said that he has no problem with being pked and even later says he enjoys the action. And your claiming that players leave because of this.... The guy is complaining about the gr system. He never got pked by anyone and was mad about it, he died to faction guards and a OP turret so what the heck are you on about?
Originally posted by ezza
you taking what he said and twisting it, his problem was he died and couldnt use a Gr to get to his vehicle not the fact he died
Then why mention getting PKed at all?
Originally posted by 5150
Then why mention getting PKed at all?
building up his story
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Actually KK posted that there were plenty of accounts all throughout that time. The last thing they posted a while after the PK nerfs was that there was lots of accounts still but noone was logging in (Duh the game used to be fun and now its boring its taking time to realize it) Now everyday someone throws all theirstuff from plaza1 cause the game isnt fun anymore.
The PVP crowd is not a "minority". 95 % of everyone that doesn't leave the game in a month after experiencing all the single player content is in the pvp crowd. And KK didnt develop the game for the people who only stay for a month. Not to mention all the people that would come back if NEPTUNE was finally implemented. (BTW Neptune was originally supposed to be implemented a couple weeks after retail... ) :rolleyes:
You are dead right but you just agreed with everything I said? Yeah that makes sense :rolleyes: You admit EVE was ruined after their PVP nerfs but then claim that the game is only failing because it has hollow gameplay? Jeesus what is wrong with you... THE GAME WAS FUN BEFORE AND NOW ITS NOT. You can't say EVE had hollow gameplay before when it was fun for everyone!!! Considering your proven ability to completely ignore facts when claiming that players leave because of pking in Neocron, I seriously doubt there is any truth to your statement about players leaving EVE because of pvp. But all I have to do to be sure is go ask my friends that play it.
Neocron has about a months worth of single player content. (Give or take depending on the persons video game experience) Thats what LE users can experience. After that player interaction is the only thing that can keep the game fun. During that first month tho people are concentrated on experiencing the single player content, and if they are pked they are going to be frusterated because they werent ready to enter the PVP phase yet. The solution is make sure that new players are REALLY being encouraged to use the LE. In fact I see no reason why the LE should have any penalties except to prevent PVP exploits using it. Boredom alone would be enough to make people want to take it out eventually. Although being able to power level a character and then have him be killable only at max level is somewhat of a PVP exploit....
Everyone has a goal when they play a game of any type. The trick is the goal should never be fully reachable. Because if it is fully reached then THE GAME IS OVER, ENDED, KAPUT. There is nothing left to motivate you to be there. How does your statement have any meaning whatsoever in your mind? Planetside has no goal in it thats why it gets boring so fast. In Neocron your goal is to get a via 3 apt, lots of vehicles, all the uber weapons for your class and keep them as long as you can. If you can get all that in a month and none of it is at risk then the game is over because you have no more motivation to play it.
Do you really think that KK pays all this money to have servers etc and run a MMORPG as opposed to a single player game for ANYONE to NOT play for Player Interaction/PVP?
EDIT: FOR GOD SAKES MAN!!! You just quoted someone who specifically said that he has no problem with being pked and even later says he enjoys the action. And your claiming that players leave because of this....
Perhaps when you do me the honour of actually reading what I post rather than seeing what you _think_ I wrote perhaps I wont spend all my repeating myself - I'm leaving the office now, perhaps you can do me a favour and re-read my post by the time I get home to post
Thanks
Originally posted by ezza
building up his story
Was irrelevant to the story (which is why its notable) - he may as well started with 'I loaded Neocron' in that case
Obviously we arent going to agree here so no point continuing on this point really
this is just getting stupid now... you been defending this system since page 1 is it i think? and we all have told ansered to your opinion, and still... you continue to disagree even know, your the onyl one backing your statements. you continue to say go play planetside, stop, breath. think, why_dont_you_go_play_anarchy_wait for it_wait_ anarchy online?
you carry on about the casual player? what is a casual player? all the people i have spoke to in this game like the old system, its alot more people then the people who back the game in its current form, but they left. because of the games current form
a game should be made for eveyone, not just the people who like the curent rules, because the current rules stop me from getting a CS and other rares because i really am not going to spend all that time tech part hunting but it suits you fine, so it should be left the way it was because you dont care about the player base?
how can you predict people was going to leave because of the pk sysem? the very people who whined because all the pkers got the changes they asked for, and most of them have left now and they took the pkers with them
you continue to defend the games system where as neptune did come out, you would have the choice to not go there so WHY DO YOU KEEP POSTING IN MY THREAD with your flame baits, we alread have explained to you lots of times and you continue to make us make our points again just to get us frustrated because your selfish that the game suits you and not the 80% of people who prefer the old system including the people who left and would come back for neptune
how can you predict people was going to leave because of the pk sysem? the very people who whined because all the pkers got the changes they asked for, and most of them have left now and they took the pkers with them
The world was better without rules because of the element of risk, and lets face it, people enjoyed getting killed; it was exciting running from some dude in Pepper Park. It was funny as people tried to con you to kill you (I can't open trade with you, lets zone into the sewer and try there.) Anyway, most of the pk's back in the day killed peeps occasionally, because it does get old real quick, it wasn't this anarchistic world which people who weren't even here like to hark back on.
I say, remove those rules, let the PKAR come back. Up the tech-drop rate, and get rid of belts.
Bring back the game I fell in love with, and ditch the two-bit carebear haven.
Originally posted by Style
this is just getting stupid now... you been defending this system since page 1 is it i think? and we all have told ansered to your opinion, and still... you continue to disagree even know, your the onyl one backing your statements. you continue to say go play planetside, stop, breath. think, why_dont_you_go_play_anarchy_wait for it_wait_ anarchy online?
you carry on about the casual player? what is a casual player? all the people i have spoke to in this game like the old system, its alot more people then the people who back the game in its current form, but they left. because of the games current form
a game should be made for eveyone, not just the people who like the curent rules, because the current rules stop me from getting a CS and other rares because i really am not going to spend all that time tech part hunting but it suits you fine, so it should be left the way it was because you dont care about the player base?
how can you predict people was going to leave because of the pk sysem? the very people who whined because all the pkers got the changes they asked for, and most of them have left now and they took the pkers with them
you continue to defend the games system where as neptune did come out, you would have the choice to not go there so WHY DO YOU KEEP POSTING IN MY THREAD with your flame baits, we alread have explained to you lots of times and you continue to make us make our points again just to get us frustrated because your selfish that the game suits you and not the 80% of people who prefer the old system including the people who left and would come back for neptune
I think you need to understand a little about how the world works my friend
A vocal minoritory is not always a minoritory (people tend not to say anything when they are happy)
A minoritory is not always wrong (on the few occasions where the _is_ a definite right and wrong
Alot of the time there is no right and no wrong there is _only_ opinion
Everyone has an opinion and they will nearly always differ - that doesnt make everyone elses wrong and you right, neither does have an apparent vocal majoritory. Some peoples opinion will never be swayed and theres nothig you can do about it so you need to learn to accept it and move on
Oh and when did KK grant you ownership of this thread? To be fair very few people have flammed here, and I got a pretty think skin, but normally a flame is when someone knows they are losing/have lost or lack the ability to continue with a rational debate (call that a moral victory if you will)
I told you why I quit AO and it had _nothing_ to do with the PvP system. I dont have anything against PvP except if its pushed down my throat when its not what I signed up for. I have a long experience of playing Quake and TeamFortress online so I've done my fair share of PvP in the past (and yes I did play Planetside for a month). You ask why I keep saying the same things and I could equally ask the same of you. I do not care that none of you agree with me, I have yet to see a counter argument that is as compelling (just why the changes were made) you have explained nothing you simply keep stating your opinion. If you find my posts frustrate you I suggest you stop reading my replies and/or put me on ignore
To go back to the Eve discussion earlier
Eve was not marketed as a PvP game
Eve attacted players not interested in PvP
Eve had completely unrestricted PvP
The non-PvP player were unhappy about this
Eves rules got changed
The _problem_ that Eve has is that PvP is central to the gameplay, you cant go _anywhere_ without risk (there are no 100% safe zones) and no PvP flag like the LE chip (so its worse than NC in that respect)
Eve lost players
I find the similarities between this example and NC to be very interesting
The core problem seems to be this:
If you perceive NC as a PVP game you cannot/will not accept the changes that have been made to it, because the appear anti-PvP
If you percieve NC as a game that has a PvP element the changes were made for acceptable reasons
Its easy to say the carebears should go and play another game (as many of you have and often do) its just as easy to suggest the PvP players are the ones in the wrong place (hence my continuing referals to Planetside - which I am still waiting to hear why you dont play)
That seems to be the bottom line, its a precerption issue and I dont think there anything anyone can do to change that
i know your opionion thats what im saying, it just seems to me your the one tyring to turn this into a who whin or looses thread, im just saying we know your opinion but you continue to post it over and over
and i can say this is my thread why? because i have the choice to get it closed down
ive said why 'my friend' i dont go play planeside, the old rules of neocron was nothing like planetside please go back and read my post again, thanks. and it was you who said go play another game first
Originally posted by Style
i know your opionion thats what im saying, it just seems to me your the one tyring to turn this into a who whin or looses thread, im just saying we know your opinion but you continue to post it over and over
and i can say this is my thread why? because i have the choice to get it closed down
I'm not trying to win I'm trying get us to collectively reach a set of constructive reasons as to why the game was changed (something everyone seem unable to even suggest) and while I continue to see misinterperatations of my posts or counters to it which can themselves be countered (or maybe genuine points I can conceed to) I will continue to post.
If however you see no more point to this thread and wish to get it locked I suggest you excersize that option
Unfortunately you reasons for not playing Planetside seem to stem around the fact that you can powerlevel to be uber here (and thus unfairly matched) yet planetside is fair
5150, it would appear that every post you make all you say is that your opinions are better than ours and thus "hold more water". We are trying to argue why the game should be put back but you are the one who isn't reading OUR posts. All you do is every post just re-iterate the same old crap of how you obviously know why KK made the changes and why obviously it is your opinion that is right.
Get over yourself.
BTW well said marx.
Mods shut this thread down please, and any chance of my message getting posted to MJS and getting a reply soon?
Originally posted by Judge
5150, it would appear that every post you make all you say is that your opinions are better than ours and thus "hold more water". We are trying to argue why the game should be put back but you are the one who isn't reading OUR posts. All you do is every post just re-iterate the same old crap of how you obviously know why KK made the changes and why obviously it is your opinion that is right.
Get over yourself.
BTW well said marx.
Then may I suggest one of you post why you think the changes were made to kill PvP in a PvP-based game beyond shutting up a minoritory of carebears (which lets face it isnt the reason) which seems to be the base of it if I understand your position correctly
Originally posted by Marx
The world was better without rules because of the element of risk, and lets face it, people enjoyed getting killed; it was exciting running from some dude in Pepper Park. It was funny as people tried to con you to kill you (I can't open trade with you, lets zone into the sewer and try there.) Anyway, most of the pk's back in the day killed peeps occasionally, because it does get old real quick, it wasn't this anarchistic world which people who weren't even here like to hark back on.
I say, remove those rules, let the PKAR come back. Up the tech-drop rate, and get rid of belts.
Bring back the game I fell in love with, and ditch the two-bit carebear haven.
A-fucking-men. Couldn't have said it better myself!
Gotterdammerung
15-10-03, 19:10
Closed at thread starters request
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.