View Full Version : PAs for everyone... what next?
•Super|\|ova•
12-10-03, 19:37
Ok. Every class has PA now. Some even have those cool gadgets like stealthing devices. Every class has been tuned up now... well, almost every class. Tanks are getting more useless now. Especially the melee tanks. Since they are supposed to be true fighter class in my opinion they would also need to be able to do some serious god damn damage on people and make their opponents (especially PE's and spies) beg for mercy down on their knees. Ok, well... HC-tanks can still beat spies pretty easily, PEs can give tanks a real head ache (and usually do so) but the monks... they are just too hard. I know, I know, they are supposed to be hard but still... come on. Give the tanks a little bit better chances.
Then there are the melee tanks... I believe I don't even have to bother to explain anything about them.
KK staff, if possible, give us even a bit hope and tell us what's going on with the tanks, what are the plans on them? (I have even some ideas for the tanks. Should I make a poll about them or post them directly to KK?)
THIS IS ABOUT TANKS! I KNOW DRONERS DON'T HAVE PA YET SO LET IT GO! THIS IS ABOUT TANKS!
I actually agree with your point about Melee tanks. That's just useless now-a-days and it's a shame since it's a possibility for more content to the game.
Shadow Dancer
12-10-03, 19:56
Apus are too hard?
:confused:
Well anyways, I too think that melee tanks should be the ultimate combat experts!!!!!11111onenoeone.
Would increasing the range on melee weapons really be such a bad thing?
melee does need a boost in general, yes. and monks are too strong, yes.
but shit, "spies and pes begging for mercy" is the worst bs ever. this is a fighting game! yes, you heard right, and before some ppl bitch around, being a fighting game doesnt exclude roleplay. anyway, in a fighting game, what happens if one class is the most powerful, and all other classes are cannon fodder? right! precisely what already happened: 90% monks. the classes should be suited on different fighting styles; there should be no "strongest" class, as everyone would just play this class then.
Spy<VS>Spy
12-10-03, 20:09
to my knowledge, KK has nothing planned.
as stated before, aggressive monks are very powerful because their weapons are very strong, never miss, can beat the piss out of you in a vehicle, around corners, about to stealth...fro 600 meters away might i add...
the problem with monks, is that they incure anouther problem in the game...rares. i can kill almost EVERY class in the game with a none rare gun, give me a good epic pistol, speed gun, well made tangernt plasma cannon...i'll hurt people.
but you my friends, arnt gona do dick to no team with monks in it giving shield unless you have a rare. i might have mentioned...that i hate rares, but incase i havnt...i do.
whatever, if i camp somewhere and an agressive monk stands still for 8 seconds...bang bang bang...death by silent hunter or pain easer. one clip, one monk...thats how it goes.
I wouldnt mind KK sticking in some new vechicles, after they make the old ones work right of course. (only dont fuck with the tank, its perfect the way it is, maybe just make it fire better on the move or give it a secondary vulcon cannon next to the main barral to screw up those passive buffed monks out healing the slow refire rate of the tank.)
(oh, and uh...kill the persons who's bright idea it was to give vehicles weapons HC property's, with shitty range, and locking time...thanks.)
i had a idea of making shelters lower healing effective nness :) or make a new amno mod called psi disrupter. does like 50 damage to the best tanks but when someone has shelter one it goes up to 1000% muahhahaha :) maybe lower :) but can i hav soem fun too :)
hehe true fully i dont like that disrupter i like having shelters lower healing effectiveness more. i mentioned this along time ago about hybrids but thay just nerfed them 30% :(
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Apus are too hard?
:confused:
Well anyways, I too think that melee tanks should be the ultimate combat experts!!!!!11111onenoeone.
Would increasing the range on melee weapons really be such a bad thing?
its just un-realistic which is the only drawback:(
Shadow Dancer
12-10-03, 21:13
Originally posted by Ascention
its just un-realistic which is the only drawback:(
And monks are realistic? Or turning invisible? :eek:
:p
Actually, i've seen quite a few melee tanks choppin' it up on saturn
pretty leathal.
I can see a problem with extending range on melee and increase its damage. The bonus/drawback(you choose) of range in this game is to small, because people move so blindingly fast. Also, closing the gap between yourself and a enemy shooting you from afar is not that difficult
4 issues.(edit, it said 3 but as you can see it is 4 :D)
1. Your enemy will not be that far away, we all know how short range you can see in nc.
2. A melee tank is gonna be a fast mf.
3. Its not that difficult using your terrain to cover your charge.
4. Melee is insta-hit right? No aiming. correct me if im wrong.
Its all because of specialisation. I dont remember who had the thread about weapons and how they should be effective on different ranges, but that made alot of sence. I think the concept was that for a tank to cover his ass on long and close range he would have to use both cannons and melee. Melee should be a backup weapon for when an enemy get to close and cannon would be almost impossible to use effectivly. Same for spies or pes, Rifle long range, pistols for close combat.
The problem with specialisation is that you have to give people who invest all their skill points in a certain skill some value for their effort. As long as melee is a skill you can specialise in, people will want it to be uber and I understand that, but I dont think thats the way it should be. Melee should be something you skill because you might need it the day someone is getting to close and with it you are not uber, but you got a good chance. Who would go to battle with only a sword when you know the others got rifles? Jedis I suppose, but they dont count.
Tanks Wishlist:
1) Reduce the weight of the PA, Tank PA3 is 3x the weight of Spy PA3
2) Rare Gatlin Cannon(TL95 to TL103)
3) Rare Laser Cannon(TL120ish)
4) Increase Recticle Speed for Tanks
5) Heavy Combat Eyes
6) Poisen Armor(High STR req.)
7) Heavy Combat CPU's(like Berserk, but HC)
8) Fix Melee
9) Unnerf the Raygun Cannons, Im still trying to figure out a good use for the Doombeamer
Whiety Bulger
12-10-03, 22:49
http://80.7.126.48/images/Skin/neocron.jpg
ZoneVortex
13-10-03, 03:03
How about we fix all the fucked up stuff that makes us FRE 100 times per gaming session rather than more content?
•Super|\|ova•
13-10-03, 03:37
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
How about we fix all the fucked up stuff that makes us FRE 100 times per gaming session rather than more content?
And how long has this problem excisted? As long as I can remember. Either they are close to solving that problem or then they have given up with that. Either way... this thread is about tanks, not about FREs. Thank you. Come again.
WithSlitWrists
13-10-03, 03:46
i don't really understand the whole pa thing...why is it that melee armor gives -15 to hc but the hc armor doesn't give -15 to melee. i say take away the - athletics to the hc pa and put on - melee instead. and as for pe's giving hc tanks a hard time...are you crazy? i think before i took my break i have only been killed by a capped pe when i was a capped tank and that was by one of the better pistol pe's. but yeah monks are hard to fight because of the fact that they can't miss and they stack like 10 poisons on you.
Shadow Dancer
13-10-03, 03:49
Originally posted by WithSlitWrists
i don't really understand the whole pa thing...why is it that melee armor gives -15 to hc but the hc armor doesn't give -15 to melee. i say take away the - athletics to the hc pa and put on - melee instead.
Well it's like monk pa taking away the opposing skill, it's not a "true" penalty.
Originally posted by WithSlitWrists
but yeah monks are hard to fight because of the fact that they can't miss and they stack like 10 poisons on you.
10 of anything will hurt.
Originally posted by Spoon
2) Rare Gatlin Cannon(TL95 to TL103)
3) Rare Laser Cannon(TL120ish)
4) Increase Recticle Speed for Tanks
5) Heavy Combat Eyes
9) Unnerf the Raygun Cannons, Im still trying to figure out a good use for the Doombeamer
YUMMY!!!
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
How about we fix all the fucked up stuff that makes us FRE 100 times per gaming session rather than more content?
God, yes! They should really make an effort to get to the bottom of all these crashes.
•Super|\|ova•
13-10-03, 03:59
Well yeah, PEs arent THAT bad. But some of them are just pure owners. One thing that makes PE so annoying opponent is the stealth device. I'm not saying they should take it away but give tanks some cool gadget too :p
WithSlitWrists
13-10-03, 04:03
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Well it's like monk pa taking away the opposing skill, it's not a "true" penalty.
what do you mean by true penalty?
ZoneVortex
13-10-03, 05:15
the doom beamer is the ultimate PK weapon.
go to MB bunker during prime times...
fire about 10 rapid shots into the bunker...
that'll be about 5-10 dead noobies in a matter of seconds.
good fun
Give tanks a TL 100 rare gat cannon, a speed gat on its own still does jack shit to a buffed monk... i remember lupus saying that the speed gun would(should) take down any PPU o_O well it dont
Tank AOE has 1 use, it's a money sink... all it's used for is spam for 20 seconds at the beginning of a OP fight o_O and the one other use is to mindlessly shoot the floor when someone stealths... I have more fun on my PE, my PE can go solo anywhere, my tank isnt that strong, my PE took 15 holy lightnings to the head and still had 120 health, whereas that would kill my tank and my tank has ''capped energy resist''... thats just bullshit rofl :lol: anyway give us a rare gat cannon, give tank's some kinda class trait where their more resistant, give us better fecking armour comparable to PSI armour for christs sake... if tank's are the ultimate fighters outta the lot why do we have shite armour ? well it aint shite but you woulda thought it was a little better
Rento Webex
13-10-03, 10:00
I think monks are just rite to be honest, apu's aren't even that strong when fully buffed, a speed gat or a few stacks of fire apoc and they will die 8 times out of 10, ppu's are easy to kill now a days I can kill a fully buffed ppu with my pe with out dam boost or tl3 heal, with the anti buff parashock and dam boost it's great.
Richard Slade
13-10-03, 10:01
And as usual li'l ol' Slade drops his dime and pull's his bat
(Good joke for those who understand it :p )
I've said it before.
I'll say it again
And I'll have to say it alot of times:
Monk= The two peaks
Tank= The massproduction
PE= The variety
Spy= The quick(or the dead)
Make Shelters / Deflectors useless against melee
I'd personally find the sight of a PPU being chased all over the zone by a claw wielding tank hilarious
Lets face it shelters/deflectors should be defence against ranged weaponry... melee users have to stand on their opponents toes to get a hit in - making them bypass the PSI defences would add a certain edge (no pun intended) to the melee weapons...
melee is for ppu monkeys
*runs away to hide* :rolleyes:
•Super|\|ova•
13-10-03, 12:23
Originally posted by Rith
Make Shelters / Deflectors useless against melee
I'd personally find the sight of a PPU being chased all over the zone by a claw wielding tank hilarious
Lets face it shelters/deflectors should be defence against ranged weaponry... melee users have to stand on their opponents toes to get a hit in - making them bypass the PSI defences would add a certain edge (no pun intended) to the melee weapons...
Hmmm... not a bad idea actually 8| Melee also needs some extra mods to tune up those blades. And maybe some new melee weapons that have some neat effect on enemies like that freezing thingy. I'm all for cool gadgets as many might have noticed :lol:
Shadow Dancer
13-10-03, 12:48
Originally posted by Rento Webex
I think monks are just rite to be honest, apu's aren't even that strong when fully buffed, a speed gat or a few stacks of fire apoc and they will die 8 times out of 10, ppu's are easy to kill now a days I can kill a fully buffed ppu with my pe with out dam boost or tl3 heal, with the anti buff parashock and dam boost it's great.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by WithSlitWrists
what do you mean by true penalty?
Like my pa giving my pure apu a -30 PPU penalty. How does that hurt a PURE apu?
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
Give tanks a TL 100 rare gat cannon, a speed gat on its own still does jack shit to a buffed monk... i remember lupus saying that the speed gun would(should) take down any PPU o_O well it dont
I SERIOUSLY doubt Lupus would make such an asanine statement. A weapon that can kill a PPU easily WITH buffs and heal going would be overpowered to the 20th power.
about those melee bypassing ppu shields, make em a new damage modifier named shield piercing... and add it to gat cannons as a mod... should solve some stuff.
Personally i think melee is making a return.
ND has 4 active melee tanks, me (on my ppu) went into the caves and ran around cycrow and crp pk'ing with 4 melee tanks they chopped down a PPU in literally seconds.
4 melee tanks > all i didn't even buff then or paraspam the ppu they chewed him up, was very very amusing, lots of other people their where confused as to 4 people running around with a large yelowy/goldy stick hitting 200+ dmg off people from 3 seconds swinging at them
Andy
i think spoon has said it all,his mods would balance out the tank a bit more.
i started with a tank 9 months ago and they rocked !!!!,nowadays every F**** has pa and every other class can buff enuff so a tank may as well lay down and die.
tanks should be the hunters,every other class has got other skills a tank cannot do,as well as being able to kill
Yep, tanks that supposed to be the basic/main combat class isn't really that great at combat. Not really funny...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I SERIOUSLY doubt Lupus would make such an asanine statement. A weapon that can kill a PPU easily WITH buffs and heal going would be overpowered to the 20th power.
Someone had it quoted in their sig for a while...
[off topic] Sig, you not in new dawn or something? Love the sig :p
Dribble Joy
13-10-03, 16:31
People still think that PEs can waste any capped tank O_o
Most CS tanks can shred any PE unless they are up against someone who moves like a nutcase, has insane resists, and has perfect aim.
Add to that the fact tanks hardly need to buff up, unlike a PE, to reach combat effectiveness.
Whoever said tanks need their recticle closing time reduced is off their head.
Monks need a recticle (Go on flame meh) Insta-aim from behind a wall is... Gah!!!
Also their range needs to be brought to about pistol level.
Melee needs a boost yes, but not range, that's fine atm.
Dmg mods or general dmg upped.
Drugs to come in stacks like boosters and medis.
Anti shock fluid to work in 3 secs, expensive and non bp/cloneable.
Spy<VS>Spy
13-10-03, 17:27
can i share a little secrete with all of you? some of you may already know this...
but Shields are not overpowered, they are very balanced in fact, caster sheilds are stronger then casted shields, which is good. its the Heals that are completely insane, everyone knows it isnt the shields that keep the PPU monk alive, its the fact he is healing 60 damage points a tick for a full 15 seconds...that makes them live forever.
Which is why i completely and utterly try an abuse the tl 3 heal...ppu's might think its lame or cheating...but you know what...fuck you, i KILLED all the people you are 'suppose' to be supporting, and since you ARE a support role and have no one supporting you, if i have 4-5 guys, YOU are gona die like everyone else pal. frankly its bullshit that i even NEED 5 guys without an APU monk to help. (fuck even with an APU it can be a chalange cause they can recast so fast, and there is no way to stop catharsis sanctum onces its up.)
Trust me...nerf the 'instaheal' and monks are fixed. they will take uber damage, but if you keep on em...and they have NO support then they die, like the gimped charactor class they are.
i laugh my ass off when ever i [ edited for violation of the forum rules - obscene ] those monks, because i know as well as they know, that they think they are gona walk away completely unscratched because they are l33t monks...nope...your pals are genreping...so are you punk.
Enjoy the ride.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
can i share a little secrete with all of you? some of you may already know this...
but Shields are not overpowered, they are very balanced in fact, caster sheilds are stronger then casted shields, which is good. its the Heals that are completely insane, everyone knows it isnt the shields that keep the PPU monk alive, its the fact he is healing 60 damage points a tick for a full 15 seconds...that makes them live forever.
Which is why i completely and utterly try an abuse the tl 3 heal...ppu's might think its lame or cheating...but you know what...fuck you, i KILLED all the people you are 'suppose' to be supporting, and since you ARE a support role and have no one supporting you, if i have 4-5 guys, YOU are gona die like everyone else pal. frankly its bullshit that i even NEED 5 guys without an APU monk to help. (fuck even with an APU it can be a chalange cause they can recast so fast, and there is no way to stop catharsis sanctum onces its up.)
Trust me...nerf the 'instaheal' and monks are fixed. they will take uber damage, but if you keep on em...and they have NO support then they die, like the gimped charactor class they are.
i laugh my ass off when ever i [ edited ] those monks, because i know as well as they know, that they think they are gona walk away completely unscratched because they are l33t monks...nope...your pals are genreping...so are you punk.
Enjoy the ride.
another rant brought to you by Spy<VS>Spy that was completely unrelated to the thread, this is about tanks... and how shite tanks are becoming, the fact tanks are now THE most utterly boring class in the game, they never have any real use other than spamming aoe at op wars....
well melee tanks can rulezor your boxxors we had one in my clan but he got bored of us blasting him accidentally hehe. his claw the paw of bear i think pwned almost every monkey but that is all gone now since he went hc
yup a melee tank gets pissed real quick at the accidental back shhooting from a team,but at least u dont lose sl when a newb gets wiped out with any aoe weapons a hc tank can use
Original monk
14-10-03, 12:57
i know they nerfd tanks like hell and know there worth shit, i know i ran around for 2 weeks with 3 stars on my tank, daamn i was sOOOOOOOO proud and then they did sumthing and tanks where doomed to be even weaker then a PE, i want my 3 stars back and i want crazy overpowerd weapons, that does so insane damage that ya can blast 14 people away with one shot, in a figure of speech...
Originally posted by Original monk
i know they nerfd tanks like hell and know there worth shit, i know i ran around for 2 weeks with 3 stars on my tank, daamn i was sOOOOOOOO proud and then they did sumthing and tanks where doomed to be even weaker then a PE, i want my 3 stars back and i want crazy overpowerd weapons, that does so insane damage that ya can blast 14 people away with one shot, in a figure of speech...
yup i agree, tanks should be able to get there 3 stars again atm you can reach 60+/xx if you have a real nice weapon and a fortress to use it in.
lol not to sure on the overpowered weapon, though would be nice to have a altarnative to the CS, like maybe make the doombeamer like ROG style attack
Originally posted by ezza
lol not to sure on the overpowered weapon, though would be nice to have a altarnative to the CS, like maybe make the doombeamer like ROG style attack
that would be.... wrong..... o_O
Personally I like the doombeamer, it's trails and so god damn helpfull when trying to trackdown a stealther, however i also liked the idea of a doombeamer being like a barrel :) :) :)
maybe but i dont even use it, if i want mainly use the moony if i am using AOE, but we need a second non aoe weapon imo
Tanks should get a rare Plasma Wave, Gatling Cannon, Grenade Launcher, and Flamer. That'd definetely help with the cookie cutter Cursed Soul set up and mix things up a bit. Tanks already have a semi-rare laser cannon in the form of the STORM Laser, so they don't really need a pure rare of that. Don't want sniping tanks.
They also need a Heavy Combat eye (why they don't have one is a complete mystery), and an HC version of the Melee Chip 3.
Melee's just need to be tweaked with a little extra damage per hit for the most part, though I'd like to see more damage types available instead of only pure piercing and energy. Make a poison version of some of the non-tech weapons and X-ray and fire versions of the laser blades.
Finally, Raygun Cannons should get the same close range bonus that all the other Raygun weapons get, but the effect should be lessened a bit so the damage isn't ridiculous.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
..fro 600 meters away might i add...
Uhh... my HL has the range of 248 meters. And my other spells have a range around 220m or so. That's not even half of the 600 meters you 'presume'.
We don't even know if we are within the range of our spells unless we try casting for every 2 seconds.
Players using rifles/pistols/cannons know they're in range when the reticle starts closing in but.. we don't have such a thing.
// Wannabe
make monks have to aim then and have a reticle
Originally posted by ezza
make monks have to aim then and have a reticle
hahaha well said :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
kinda put your foot in it there wannabe, such an advantage having a reticule aint it :rolleyes:
Spy<VS>Spy
14-10-03, 19:38
Originally posted by Wannabe
Uhh... my HL has the range of 248 meters. And my other spells have a range around 220m or so. That's not even half of the 600 meters you 'presume'.
We don't even know if we are within the range of our spells unless we try casting for every 2 seconds.
Players using rifles/pistols/cannons know they're in range when the reticle starts closing in but.. we don't have such a thing.
// Wannabe
would it shock you, if i told you the spell...tends to lie...i have a Pure APU monk, and usually, if i can see it, i can hit it...
its not pain easer range, but its fairly impressive for a point and click spell...
and the reasons why your tanks SUCK, mr. \\Fényx// is because they cant output the damage per second needed to bring down their targets. their rang is less than APU's, they dont hit as hard...and uh...yeah, their weapons tend to be as accurate as using a SAM missle to kill a moose.
...actually, i guess i'm going to drop the whole debate because really the aspec with tanks to me is a personal opinion. i belive they should rule at up close combat with melee and i think they should dominate useing heavy weapons for mass destruction at range against groups of enemys...not accurate enough to kill a few of some spread out fast movers but put the pain on indivgual squads or groups of runners defending a location.
others belive tanks should have different roles, and frankly, they can be just as right as i am.
Shadow Dancer
14-10-03, 19:40
PPus are gonna get apus soooooooooooooooooo proxy nerfed.
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