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Ok, well I want to learn how to program. I've had loads of cool ideas for programs but I have never had the skill to make them. Thus I have decided to start learning visual basic. Can anyone give me a link to any good tutorials online as to how to start out coding in Visual Basic? Or any good tools or whatever that would be helpful to a programming newbie?
Ta in advance
Originally posted by Judge
Ok, well I want to learn how to program. I've had loads of cool ideas for programs but I have never had the skill to make them. Thus I have decided to start learning visual basic. Can anyone give me a link to any good tutorials online as to how to start out coding in Visual Basic? Or any good tools or whatever that would be helpful to a programming newbie?
Ta in advance
What kind of programs do you plan to develop?
Personally, I believe VB to be the spawn of satan and would actually recommend Java before VB. :p
Depends on the application... Java do need an object oriented mind if you want to program in it and requires some extra learning/understanding.
EDIT: I'm not sure about the VB section, but for Java there are a lot of free development tools, even for doing GUI's. Borland has one called JBuilder, which you can use for free if it's for personal use only. http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/index.html
I was just thinking of learning VB as the basics before moving onto bigger and harder stuff....
Isn't java something to do with the internet? Or am I getting languages mixed up?
C#.NET > all
N
P.S. ONOZ Pro-MS post!!!!1111ONEONE
P.P.S VB.NET's pretty good too - it's nothing like its flabby forebears.
Originally posted by Judge
I was just thinking of learning VB as the basics before moving onto bigger and harder stuff....
Isn't java something to do with the internet? Or am I getting languages mixed up?
Java is used very extensively on the internet in the form of something called "Java applets".
Java can be as complex as you make it basically.
It can be a simple program only printing "Hello" on you screen, to a vast and complex booking system for a travel agency for example...
If you want to see what it is about check out http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/index.html and look in the first "Learning the Java language". There you can read a little about the concepts of object oriented programming and the basics of Java. If it seems too complex to start with, you can always choose VB ;)
Originally posted by Nidhogg
C#.NET > all
N
P.S. ONOZ Pro-MS post!!!!1111ONEONE
P.P.S VB.NET's pretty good too - it's nothing like its flabby forebears.
Omg nid, barbecue time!! ;)
C and derivatives owns your pitty .NET :p
...from my point of view then.. which would be a mad skill0red programmer :eek: o_O :p
nid I dont like your incoherant posts, spam is not allowed.
G
Isnt Spam bannable for 3 days? :D
Originally posted by Hippieman
Isnt Spam bannable for 3 days? :D
I'm quite sure Nid will open up a can just for you dear :p
"I'll show you spamm0r hawr hawr"
*huge muscles descending*
...
"...dust to dust... the Lord haveth taken you..."
Ill let him off with a warning this time.
G
C was an inspired language and was my favourite by far for many years. C++ was an absolute bag of shite and an embarassment to it's older brother. Java put C++ to shame but was still only an imperfect step along the road to programming perfection. C# is our next stop. Hold tight. :p
N
Originally posted by Nidhogg
C was an inspired language and was my favourite by far for many years. C++ was an absolute bag of shite and an embarassment to it's older brother. Java put C++ to shame but was still only an imperfect step along the road to programming perfection. C# is our next stop. Hold tight. :p
N
Ack ack ack *puts forehead in palm*
Damnit... I was making a nice cartoon and all.. then I closed wrong window... bah. Wasn't any good anyway :p
Anyway... if your primary concern is speed, which it is in my work, Java or C# is.. errr...
I believe Java and C# to be very intuitive, no question there... But for hardcore control and speed - Pure C ownz. ;)
I thought that C++ was meant to be better than C (by the whole ++ bit :p)?
Originally posted by Judge
I thought that C++ was meant to be better than C (by the whole ++ bit :p)?
Well.. depends on how you use it I guess. I haven't used C++ that much, mainly because I do C, Objective-C and Java mostly.
Objective-C is what C++ should have been. Onfortunately it isn't widely used other than on Mac/OSX platforms. It derives from the NeXTStep times and is, in my meaning, very well thought through.
It's basically C, but with object oriented. Fast as pure C and very good libraries. You can mix pure C code and Objective-C code freely as you like, which makes it very powerful for a program which is cumbersome to program out of a non object oriented design.
The things I've done is real time application with extreme requests for speed and reliability, and I haven't had a single problem so far.
Java is out of the question, anyone knows that.. when it comes to switching to another language, well - if it ain't broken, don't fix it ;)
From the top of my head I don't think C# would be able to provide me with the control and speed I am used to with pure C.
But I might be wrong, I haven't done serious tests yet (which I won't be doing anyway so... :p). But I'm always open for better solutions if they present themselves...
EDIT: I'm going to bed now, so don't think I'm rude if I ignore anyone ;)
EDIT 2: ONOZ, The hotties thread was deleted... No bed slideshow for me then :(
Progenitor
12-10-03, 04:07
Originally posted by Nidhogg
C#.NET > all
N
P.S. ONOZ Pro-MS post!!!!1111ONEONE
P.P.S VB.NET's pretty good too - it's nothing like its flabby forebears.
It all depends on what you are wanting to do.
It you are wanting a front end GUI application that most users are going to run, C# is a great way to go.
For web applications and backend servers (that the front end GUI application can connect too) Java, IMO, is a better way to go.
-p
AlphaGremlin
12-10-03, 08:08
*cough* Macro Assembler *cough*
Seriously, I started with QuickBasic, moved to VB, then to x86 and z80 Assembly, and finally C++.
VB = Nice and quick to make things, relatively powerful once you get past all the BS restrictions of Microsoft.
Assembly = Really powerfull, similar in terms of Windows, to C++, except everything is a whole lot more step-by-step. Once you get good at it, it's quite easy really, and a whole lot less restrictive than C.
C++ = Powerful as ASM, easier to make things in, but more restrictive, which is good for a beginner, since it can be tight about certain things.
Only a little experience with Java, mainly JavaScript. I found it very much C++, with Visual Basic-style object orientation.
http://planetsourcecode.com/vb/default.asp?lngWId=1
and
http://www.codepedia.com/1/BeginnersGuideToVB
FBI
Ta, very much FBI :D
One question for you dude.... what language have you written your various third party programs in?
Also can anyone tell me exactly what programs I need to err.... make my programs. Like compilers and stuff, I'm seeing lots of names of different tools used and I'm not sure which are neceassary or not.
Originally posted by Judge
Ta, very much FBI :D
One question for you dude.... what language have you written your various third party programs in?
Also can anyone tell me exactly what programs I need to err.... make my programs. Like compilers and stuff, I'm seeing lots of names of different tools used and I'm not sure which are neceassary or not.
I wrote all my nc thirdparty programs in vb, my server stat project
is a hybrid Vb/delphi one though.
If you want to learn visual basic then i suggest going here:
http://visualbasic.about.com/library/bllearnvba.htm?once=true&PM=ss11_visualbasic
That's where i learnt the delphi7 language, it's a good site.
If you really get into vb, i suggest buying this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0078825083/104-7145845-8525518?v=glance
I own it and have read it even after years of programming on
my own, it has helped immensly as a learning tool and reference
tool.
I'm a hardcore vb programmer, meaning I can make anything
in vb even if it means getting around it's own limitations. 6 years
pass but in those years, I've made some great stuff in visual c++,
but I never liked microsofts editor & gui, so i moved to borland
C++builder 6 which is cleaner and much more professional even
though some will deny it. Today I still use vb, depends on what
i'm making though. From vb, i migrated to borland delphi 7, i fell
in love with the delphi syntax and compiler and the thousands of
professional components it has built in. I rarely use borland
c++ to program, usually only to convert c++ code to delphi :)
Most of the time I'll make something in vb and if something is
time critical, i'll write a dll in delphi or c++ for that reason. That's
being a vb hardcore :)
Though, these softwares are quite expensive, i suggest downloading
microsoft learners edition which will let u execute and program in
visual basic but not have the ability to compile it into executables.
FBI
Cruzbroker
12-10-03, 21:39
Could I get some help to C/delphi from pro's too ? khv @ quakenet & netgamers :D
I wonder how do you mod something, like neocron the neocronlauncher pro..
What's my experience, you can see in my sig :p
As a small linux resident here, may i suggest learning a programming language which is NOT platform dependent? Believe it or not, but a lot of things are still being made in C, including the linux kernel.
People say VB is the shit, but VB isn't portable. Java was supposed to be portable, but M$ fucked it up by making sure THEIR VERSION isn't 100% compatible with everyone else's, and it's one of the reasons SUN don't like M$ anymore ( because they fucked up ON PRUPOSE the project of having a nice, powerful, portable language for many platforms).
{MD}GeistDamnit
12-10-03, 23:58
Originally posted by Nidhogg
C#.NET > all
N
P.S. ONOZ Pro-MS post!!!!1111ONEONE
P.P.S VB.NET's pretty good too - it's nothing like its flabby forebears.
where can I find out about this language and maybe learn it? pm me a link since u cant post it here plz :D
Well I am learning it riht now of thi moment in class, well as u can see I an't, but I'm ment to be
Farto u ain't gonna get very far in programming with spelling like that.
Ok, final question (I think) I have been searching the net and have found many references to VB as a program. Is this like the official MS compiler jobbie for VB?
lullysing, I'm going to learn C and C++ after a while of using VB. Just using VB to get the drift and mindset for programming. I'm very interested in linux but as far as I know you can't run Neocron on it. So its a bit of a no no atm :(
Progenitor
13-10-03, 20:21
Originally posted by {MD}GeistDamnit
where can I find out about this language and maybe learn it? pm me a link since u cant post it here plz :D
Grap the DotNet Framework SDK (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=9B3A2CA6-3647-4070-9F41-A333C6B9181D&displaylang=en).
Grab a copy of Sharp Edit (http://www.c-point.com/csharp.htm). There are some other editors out there, that aren't microsoft, but this is decent.
There are a multitude of sites to get examples from.
Originally posted by Judge
Ok, final question (I think) I have been searching the net and have found many references to VB as a program. Is this like the official MS compiler jobbie for VB?
lullysing, I'm going to learn C and C++ after a while of using VB. Just using VB to get the drift and mindset for programming. I'm very interested in linux but as far as I know you can't run Neocron on it. So its a bit of a no no atm :(
If you don't go VB.Net right away, I highly suggest you stay away from VB.6 or prior. It teaches a lot of bad habbits.
Learning good structured C will take you far as there are a lot of platforms that support C compilers. C++ is a little harder, and the concept of objects in C++ isn't exactly great, but they work.
In all honesty, if you are going to pick a language to start from scratch, something like java might be a better start. It is a decent learning language and there are a lot of free compilers/editors/debugers/tools with plenty of examples to go around. It has the ability to teach you fundamentals of programming without having to know about objects, plus allows you extend yourself when ready to get into object oriented programming.
And if you really want to do things right, of java, grab junit from the start and develop in strickly Test First Design (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestFirstDesign) or sometimes called Test Driven Development (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestDrivenDevelopment). That way you won't develop any terrible habits that you will have to break latter on in life. It sometimes is a pain in the ass, but in the long run you produce better code, less bugs and overall faster time to deployment.
-p
Oh dear god.... when you guys are talking about VB.Net I hope that you don't mean this: Amazon VB.net (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089GKO/ref=sr_aps_software_1_1/026-5662486-5475604).
If you do then...... fuck me.
Progenitor
13-10-03, 21:00
Originally posted by Judge
Oh dear god.... when you guys are talking about VB.Net I hope that you don't mean this: Amazon VB.net (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089GKO/ref=sr_aps_software_1_1/026-5662486-5475604).
If you do then...... fuck me.
Yep, but you don't exactly need it.
Grab the dot net framework sdk I posted above. That gives you the basic compile, but no gui editor.
Grab this Sharp Edit (http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/) (different from the one I posted above - I meant to post this one - too many damm bookmarks.) It does both vb.net and C#
-p
Learn Java. Pick a non MS JDK though (IBM or SUN, but there are others).
Apart from Applets, Java really shines on the server end of things and you can make autoexecutable Jar files as well as cross platform. 1.4 supports decent graphics as well (I haven't looked it at all).
Easy to learn too.
I would recommend picking up Eclipse (www.eclipse.org). It's a free IDE with 1000's of plugins to help you code better as well as teaches you to create your own plugins.
Originally posted by Judge
Just using VB to get the drift and mindset for programming.
Getting the drift for programming is a damn good idea - learn the theory, learn the practice then learn how to really program.
But don't start with VB - it will teach you lazy, poor programming techniques
I'd actually recommend you start with Pascal - its an old language, but that means you'll be able to get lots of free source etc. For actually building real world software Pascal is pointless - but it does teach you how to program. Pascal has absolutely no scope for lazy development techniques - it will force the theory on you.
Once you've learnt Pascal, learn Java - its a nice pure OO and will help you learn the practice of Software Engineering.
Once you understand the practice then either go for J2EE (Java Enterprise Edition) or C#.NET (MS equiv to J2EE)
Depending on which path you take - you probably want to go for certification. Its 10x harder to get the Java certification so it usually means more. But there's lots of MS jobs out there so lacking MS certification maybe a bit of black mark for a rookie dev.
R
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