View Full Version : PPUs ~ Nailed.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 21:46
Read it all before you post/vote.
[20:20] <Himura> Balanced PPU;
[20:20] <Himura> Cannot rezz under fire from more than one person (so you make it so that they can't rezz unless they have a certain amount of HP)
[20:20] <Himura> Para removed.
[20:20] <Himura> Holy Cath Sanct Removed.
[20:20] <Himura> Holy Cath Cost brought down a tad (Increase Holy Cath RoF).
[20:21] <Himura> Foreign cast buffs become over-ridable.
[20:21] <Himura> However.
[20:21] <Himura> If someone like a PE casts shelter on a PPU twice
[20:21] <Himura> the PPU needs to recast shelter again because it'll over-cast the holy shelter
So basically, no ultra passive protection of the PPU from holy cath sanct (Para/DB/Poison will stay on the PPU until they cast holy cath), no holy blue shit from the sky.
TL 3 Deflector / Heal and TL 25 Shelter can be cast over.
Edit; I forgot.
Holy Antipoison sanctum, and Holy True sight aura's range should be increased.
In True Sight Aura's case, increased dramatically.
The idea behind the external overcast is this;
PEs can basically stand there and spam PPUs with a freq modded shelter, to make sure PPUs can't spend the time rezzing.
2 Shelter casts from a PE doesn't take long (my PE gets something like 32/min RoF on his shelter, so that's once every two seconds AND it's not even freq modded) and those two casts will over ride holy shelter.
The PPU can recast shelter in one cast, but it will cost more mana.
Same goes for deflector.
TL 3 Heal cannot be externally overcast though because it's castable by a lot of PEs at 52/min (same freq as holy heal) which defeats the point...
Oppinions?
Constructive ones please.
I tried to cater for all sides too, bare in mind I am a high level and well trained PPU and before that I was a major major PE player.
I still play my PE significantly.
So no bias comments pls :p
JackScratch
10-10-03, 21:55
You are asking for a lot of change here, and there is no way to fully calculate the conciquinces. Im not interested in haveing to LOM to APU, because you decided to rewrite the damn game for me. As for the Low TL buff thing. I like it the way it is. As it stands it is the chink in the armor. It is the reason that all the other crap you listed isnt nesecary. No one seems real interested in hearing this, but it isnt the PPUs that are your problem. It is Hybrids mascaradeing as PPUs. The whole PPU discusion shouldnt even exist, but sadly it will probably bring more problems to a game already frought with them.
The higher TL shelters being overiden seem a bit sloppy QD.
Perhaps an introduction of a shield poping rifle/pistol.
im a little confused about something, would a PE be able to override a ppu's shelther just by casting it twice on him??? that seems a little unfair to me. If a ppu cast a high lvl spel, nothing should overide that unless its like a anti-buff.
If thats not what you saying pls explain, ill vote when i understand. :wtf:
[edit]my idea (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78444)
I welcome all changes to the game.
Jackscratch, were you around when KK mega-nerfed Hybrid monks? =P
Hmm that seemed a little complicated, but then again ive never played a monk. About the ressing stuff. Why not just make it so that using a ressing spell automaticaly debuff the casting ppu? That way he cant ress without being in a safe spot. Seems like a fair tradeoff to me. You leave yourself totally vurnable in exchange for bringing someone back to life.
If I`m not completely wrong my suggestion would have the same goal as yours QD, with a slightly different path to reach that goal.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 22:04
Originally posted by Mantus
The higher TL shelters being overiden seem a bit sloppy QD.
Perhaps an introduction of a shield poping rifle/pistol.
Heh, the reason behind the double cast-rebuff is that;
A) PEs/Spies/Tanks who spec themselves to do so, can in a team defeat a PPU if well enough organised but at the same time the PPU stands a fair chance of defending himself.
My PPU would probably have no trouble at all living through this treatment, however it would mean that I wouldn't be able to run through 15 people like I did in a08 the other day, and rezz people while under fire from turrets and players alike..
These are the main things people complain about when they deal with PPUs.
The reason for it being two buff instead of one, is as you guys said a little unfair.
However, a PE Shelter comes up to about 32/min, PPU Shelters cap RoF totally.
If certain configurations come to light that are able to abuse this then I can just say lower the low TL Shields RoF.
As I said I am myself a PPU, /64, PSI Capped, DEX Capped, CON Capped, STR Capped, and I know what I'm doing when it comes to PPUing.
Some people have said there is probably no way to balance the PPU, well that's because less orthadox methods such as these have not been tried.
For your critics, if you come to me with a problem about this, in this thread I will tweak the idea until it is in everyone's oppinion fair.
However at my skill level with a PPU this seems like a fair deal to me.
The only thing that concerned me much was PE S/D RoF.
Which can easily be fixed, but it also gives PEs and Spies something to do in op fights.
People are complaining about monkocron, this is just one of the first steps in a long series of ideas I've had that would lead to Op and Duel balance.
KramerTheWeird
10-10-03, 22:04
awesome ideas :)
one suggestion: instead of having a rule about ressurection based on how many fighting, rez adds SI to ressurected, maybe 5%
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 22:05
Id LoM APU because everyone i encounter would have perverse joy at finally being able to easily drop a class that has been considered god-like for so long.
thats not bias..thats inevitable, I'd feel pity for all PPU's, even the assholes I don't like.
Im fine with removing para.
holy cath is all but useless and could only be truely viable in independant situations unless it had the RoF of lower anti-spells.
I dontget what yur saying about rezzing other then its useless in an OP battle. Because im never ever shot at by ONE person. If i am those people have some severe coordination issues.
and PE owns me...Lib + TL3 def spam. As would most well setup spies. Add DB which is in their arsenol...you basically gave an already. If used properly a smart PE or spy can solo drop any PPU easier then an APU ever could seeing as how they have a 1 second anti-buff and their lib does more damage to most of us unbuffed then an HL . God forbid if some APU is toxic spamming me.
Basically our class would be constantly harrased and primed, one PE woudl be able to consume all of our attention..not leaving us time or mana to deal with our teamates..making us an effectivly useless class...more worthless then current spies.
Procedure:
DB
def
def
heal
lib spray
def
def
lib spray
def
def
heal
lib spray
collect dog tag
repeat if neccesary
a higher level monk should be allowed over cast other shields if thier skill was higher then the original cast (with % based on difference).
As for rezzing, don't like the idea. A better one is to transfer a large portion of the PPU's health to the person being rezzed. The transfer is reserved health based at the time of casting.
Example. 100 health is transferred by PPU
- PPU has 99 health. Cannot cast.
- PPU has 101 health. Can cast and will have 1 health on completion.
- PPU has 101 health and takes 40 damage while casting. The person rezzes with 100 health however the PPU dies from the drain.
Para should be a totally passive spell in that if you attack the caster then you get parashocked (a para shield) otherwise the mana used should be upped. For me to cast holy para is 33, up it to 100 easily based on that level. "Give Parashock a rectilce?" a good idea actually if only for that spell.
Cath spells, no leave them in game. Up the Sanctum and lower the normal one.
Why not just make it so that using a ressing spell automaticaly debuff the casting ppu?
Then I would never rez anyone under any condition. Without any form of shields a PPU is dead.
PPU shield popping weapons. No, unless the ability to pop the shields made two checks. One against the skill of the PPU (if cast on themselves) the other based off the resist PSI skill (for shields put on by other players). It would also have to be level based, not a % chance. So if you can't pop the shield, then you can never pop the shield. Either that or the ROF has to be insanely low for the weapon.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 22:12
That's the reason I suggested two casts, because currently PPUs > All other classes for holy buff rof compared to non-holy buff rof.
Even if you do try to spam it on the ppu it would take more than one person casting the deflector to be able to keep the holy deflector off for a long enough period of time to take advantage...
Even then the person taking advantage would have to be lib/pe/tsg owning because otherwise they wouldn't make a dent.
The idea with holy cath is to bring it down to usable levels like Holy Anti spells, however require manual attention rather than the automatic process which the sanctum gives.
Any PPU who is fully battle specced and not gimped with constructed spells (so generally people who are trying to work to be great at their class) are going to be fine.
Again, if Low TL buff RoF is too high then it will require tweaking.
Looking at rezz;
Giving SI out is okay I guess, it is another solution, there's a few on the table, but most people (arcadius and icarium for two immediate examples) don't like the fact that a PPU can make a successful rezz with 5+ people shooting at them.
the idea of dropping ppu buffs for doing it is worse than my one of limiting hp ...because in places like chaos caves and MC5, it just wont work, PPUs need to be able to tank some damage.
The idea behind my concept is that you need to use the buff-buff-debuff method on a ppu that's trying to rezz in order to force them off it, while still allowing the PPU if they choose to, plenty of time to rebuff their own spells...
Not bad Simon some well thought out ideas, some old ones there too.
If this thread doesn't develop into something useful i'll take all the ideas and try to work the best way through it from there maybe we should setup a room for ppus on ETG IRC and discuss it (PPUs only =P), then present it to the community, trying to find a viable solution.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 22:16
i liek the health xfer idea... damage % on rezzes could eb a multiplier..i.e. target always gains same amount of HP on rez but if the % is higher then oh say..300% the less health that is transfered from PPU....i think itd be better to go % based on health..not flat rate...that way a PPU can tkill himself by rezzing..that just seems kinda silly. like say 40% standerd..and capped % on holy rez would drop it to 25% drained but still 40% givin to the rez target.. Um I think it woudl also be smart to say 40% drain based on PPU's HP...and the gain based on the targets max HP. becauses theres probably occasions where a PPU could end up rezzing someoen at full HP..lol
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
the idea of dropping ppu buffs for doing it is worse than my one of limiting hp ...because in places like chaos caves and MC5, it just wont work, PPUs need to be able to tank some damage.
The idea behind my concept is that you need to use the buff-buff-debuff method on a ppu that's trying to rezz in order to force them off it, while still allowing the PPU if they choose to, plenty of time to rebuff their own spells...
This may sound crazy but what about just weakening shelter/deflector some:confused: You know you don't have to come up with ideas that make ppus useless just to balance them:rolleyes:
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 22:24
sure a PPU can still out RoF the basic spells..but hes pretty much putting all his time into defending against ONE PE....that PE can over-buff fast enough if he doesnt even try to use his lib, trust me. On top of that the buggers can stealth in behind me..its bad enough i can be antibuffed near the edge of my clipping range with force fog on..........
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 22:24
Cuz that doesn't really fix TL 3 Heal / TL 3 Deflector / TL 25 Shelter abuse...
Far from makes you useless, just makes you need to pay attention.
buff-buff-debuff can be given an actual graphical representation on the screen as well like PSI Manipulation for Shelter, because this gives the PPU added awareness.
*Shrug*
Useless?
At least I'm trying pete, haven't seen you made any well thought out suggestions (weaken shelter/deflector? heh, PE self cast buffs will be more effective then foreign based PPU buffs after that, additionally, places like MC5 and Chaos Caves could become unhandlable).
A simple solution wont fix all these problems.
If it did, it'd be fixed by now.
True sight needs to be increased.
If you PPUs didn't notice there are PPU-Helping Bonus ideas in there as well. -_- jesus.
QD some times u post and you seem to have it worked out but in a idealistic kinda way
[20:20] <Himura> Holy Cath Sanct Removed.
ok i do play a PPU, and yes my holy para is on 87/111% so it gets used, but i do use it when lvling, and holy cath sanc is the ONLY thing that keeps me alive some times.
my QB =
Holpy para
damage boost
Spy bosoter/ support / holy cath / holy anti posion
booster
haz/heat
primar (PSI/HC/PC/RC)
def
shelta
HH sanc
HH
i don't have room for anti damage bosot + anti posion + anti para which you need and which can be taken over by casting the sancs
[20:20] <Himura> Cannot rezz under fire from more than one person (so you make it so that they can't rezz unless they have a certain amount of HP) this isn't a walk in the pissing park here the ammount of times in PvM i have rezzed some one when under fire from grim chaser+ other mob + guard where my health is flickering up and down. LET ALONE to say MC fucking 5 im a ppu i can take 2-3 of them shooting me before they nail me with HH on and HH sanc but do i fuck like have full hp all the time. also lower lvl players how are they meant to have full hp
[20:20] <Himura> Para removed.
i could live with that *shrugs* but it would only mean the "people" would find sound thing else to be bitch of the week
[20:21] <Himura> If someone like a PE casts shelter on a PPU twice
[20:21] <Himura> the PPU needs to recast shelter again because it'll over-cast the holy shelter we both know what the resists calculations takes to work and we both know that by the time you had realised as tbh if u got some one anti deflectoring you and then some one shelthering you *shrugs* would u notice ? or just think ur shelters gone down and it won't cast again
oh and BTW has any one USED true sight sanc ?? that should be in with the bloody Melee rares, i have had spys come up to me and decloak next to me of there own choice and people run threw it basically unless the person is moveing para shocked speed it don't fecking work.
meh
Just remove ppu's..... :rolleyes:
I dont agree on the PE thing, they already have the 2nd best protection and if this sort of thing was implented, they would be like a judge/RoG weilding apu but without the 'shit resists'.....this would technically make PE's the hybrid monk....
I think to please the 'VAST' of this game, ppu's Holy Para needs to A) weakened an awful lot or... B) removed completely from the game, pronto :mad:. The reason i say this is because 1) a ppu never uses a Freeze spell to evade being attacked....now ffs, come on, even you ppu's know this, but its like a 3rd arm to you so....Flame on!..... 2) It's offensive magic, can i just take one moment to think again what the P in ppu means....ahhh.....yes, thats right Passive....ooohh....i feel something else, rawr....yes, yes, its the A in apu.....Mystic Meg said it stands for Agressive, Now why is the Ppu monk able to take small fractions of your health away from you and at the same time glue you down and in a few zones, actually bring your slow walk to an end? Death?
Anyway....enough about all these fancy ideas in one fellow swoop...Just do either A) or B) and Walaa.....Ppu's are once again, a Balanced class sort of.
yeah :rolleyes: remove PPU's then you would have people begging for PE's to come lvling with them, because who the fuck can solo MC5?? have PE's drunging up and specing to use rezzz alig u play a char that has low INT don't act the same way
Originally posted by Ryuben
yeah :rolleyes: remove PPU's then you would have people begging for PE's to come lvling with them, because who the fuck can solo MC5??
Definition of the ':rolleyes:' smilie = sarcastic. :rolleyes:
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 22:45
heh TS does need a boost really..as it is..a non parad PE can be right in front of you plain as day with a stealth cloud (IE if yur chasing them)..but even tho theyre inside the sacnt they dont un stealth...they have to be dry humping you for it to work..ive found one usefull application..camping OP UG's...oh and belts :D I also love watching a stealth cloud run right through it and out the other end...de stealth on a ridge..and pop me with a PE...
never badly thought out and ill concieved idea's... (pete, not sexin u for a month now, weakenin my shields indeed :p)
...
=
Cannot rezz under fire from more than one person (so you make it so that they can't rezz unless they have a certain amount of HP)
=
Like Ryuben said, there are plenty of times when you need to Rez someone, when your under attack from multiple mobs. Just because people out there are not prepared to put the effort into killing a monk that is rezzin, doesnt mean to say its inbalanced, just says that they r crap ^^
=
Para removed.
=
And replaced with...? Seriously, replaced with what? A TL 4 soul cluster to get 127 million exp with? Like I said, its only certain groups, tanks/apu's/ub3r ppl that get effected by PPU's with parashock.
=
Holy Cath Sanct Removed.
=
Why? Because it removes the holy para if your close enough?
=
Holy Cath Cost brought down a tad (Increase Holy Cath RoF).
=
That should be done anyhow, the mana cost is too high as it is.
=
Foreign cast buffs become over-ridable.
[20:21] <Himura> However.
[20:21] <Himura> If someone like a PE casts shelter on a PPU twice
[20:21] <Himura> the PPU needs to recast shelter again because it'll over-cast the holy shelter
=
2 PE's will then gang up on a Monk, blast it with shelter, both at the same time, then gank the PPU whilst it tries to get his/her shelter/deflector back up. Or, PE's going "shelter/shelter/deflector/deflector" quicker than an APU can ever cast Anti Buff.
Bad idea's which will totally ruin PPU's, overpower PE's etc..
ghandisfury
10-10-03, 22:52
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Heh, the reason behind the double cast-rebuff is that;
A) PEs/Spies/Tanks who spec themselves to do so, can in a team defeat a PPU if well enough organised but at the same time the PPU stands a fair chance of defending himself.
My PPU would probably have no trouble at all living through this treatment, however it would mean that I wouldn't be able to run through 15 people like I did in a08 the other day, and rezz people while under fire from turrets and players alike..
These are the main things people complain about when they deal with PPUs.
The reason for it being two buff instead of one, is as you guys said a little unfair.
However, a PE Shelter comes up to about 32/min, PPU Shelters cap RoF totally.
If certain configurations come to light that are able to abuse this then I can just say lower the low TL Shields RoF.
As I said I am myself a PPU, /64, PSI Capped, DEX Capped, CON Capped, STR Capped, and I know what I'm doing when it comes to PPUing.
Some people have said there is probably no way to balance the PPU, well that's because less orthadox methods such as these have not been tried.
For your critics, if you come to me with a problem about this, in this thread I will tweak the idea until it is in everyone's oppinion fair.
However at my skill level with a PPU this seems like a fair deal to me.
The only thing that concerned me much was PE S/D RoF.
Which can easily be fixed, but it also gives PEs and Spies something to do in op fights.
People are complaining about monkocron, this is just one of the first steps in a long series of ideas I've had that would lead to Op and Duel balance.
go here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78347), vote and bump the thread. I think PPUs SHOULD be able to rezz under that kind of fire, but I aslo think that there needs to be a way to remove the dead people from battle.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 23:05
Originally posted by Ryuben
QD some times u post and you seem to have it worked out but in a idealistic kinda way
I'm an idealist ^_^
I am trying, as I said this can be adjusted. The idea isn't set in stone most of these were put together about an hour before I talked with Nid about them.
They are exactly that, idealistic... Remember I do play a PPU heh..
ok i do play a PPU, and yes my holy para is on 87/111% so it gets used, but i do use it when lvling, and holy cath sanc is the ONLY thing that keeps me alive some times.
Cath Sanct makes PPUing easy in my oppion, Polarity had exactly the same view, it takes all of the skill out of it...
As I'm sure you know, Damage Boost and Parashock can be just as deadly to a PPU as any other class in the game.....unless you maintain a close eye on it, but cath sanctum removes that...
my QB =
Holpy para
damage boost
Spy bosoter/ support / holy cath / holy anti posion
booster
haz/heat
primar (PSI/HC/PC/RC)
def
shelta
HH sanc
HH
Similar to mine.
My QB=
Parashock Beam (better than HP I swear by it :p)
PSI Booster
HD
HS
HH
HHS
Haz/Heat
Prims
Support or Holy Cath.
Damage Boost
Think though, Para goes.
Holy Cath (normal spell which has been revamped to make it actually usable) goes in slot one and makes up for all three anti spells...
i don't have room for anti damage bosot + anti posion + anti para which you need and which can be taken over by casting the sancs
It's my intention that Holy Cath (non sanct) replaces those spells for a capped out ppu.
this isn't a walk in the pissing park here the ammount of times in PvM i have rezzed some one when under fire from grim chaser+ other mob + guard where my health is flickering up and down. LET ALONE to say MC fucking 5 im a ppu i can take 2-3 of them shooting me before they nail me with HH on and HH sanc but do i fuck like have full hp all the time. also lower lvl players how are they meant to have full hp
It was probably best suggestion I could come up with for limiting rezz.
There is Kramer's idea as well, adding SI, though I don't know if that's the right solution.
There is also Simon's idea which I am pretty fond of right now.
i could live with that *shrugs* but it would only mean the "people" would find sound thing else to be bitch of the week
Yes I know, I've tried to explain the psychology behind peoples hatred for PPUs for a while, it's bullshit that they can't rise above natural base level human instincts even in a game..heh
we both know what the resists calculations takes to work and we both know that by the time you had realised as tbh if u got some one anti deflectoring you and then some one shelthering you *shrugs* would u notice ? or just think ur shelters gone down and it won't cast again
buff-buff=debuff or maybe even buff-buff-buff=debuff would obviously have a graphical effect on your screen.
the wont recast "bug" is caused solely by alt-tabbing, unless it's just under two seconds which tends to just come from lag...
oh and BTW has any one USED true sight sanc ?? that should be in with the bloody Melee rares, i have had spys come up to me and decloak next to me of there own choice and people run threw it basically unless the person is moveing para shocked speed it don't fecking work.
True Sight Sanctum, just like Anti Poison and Holy Catharsis Sanctum has a range of 6 metres.....o_O
Needs to be fixed, I know...
Lexx ~ Holy Para needs to go from PvP end of story.
All Parashocks do. - I was hoping people would not mind the over-riding of buffs to counter that.
If buff-buff=debuff does indeed appear to be TOO overpowered, buff-buff-buff=debuff is an easy way to extend it...
As for 3 PEs + APU vs PPU = Unfair .... I'd start to think you are just out to have an overpowered class (and you tried to nerf pistol pes saying they'd be overpowered? lllloooollll).
Holy cath sanctum is a personal bitch of mine.
When I'm using that spell there is nothing on this earth that can kill me except a PE + APU + HAB + S/D/Hing if their timing is PERFECT, if their timing is not perfect, it ain't gonna kill me.
HCS Removes all the skill from PvP PPUing, because it automatically removes your need to worry about three things ..completely, passively, for a whole minute, without direct action from yourself.
My PPU doesn't even use HCS because when you do it lowers your reaction times and situational management, if I do eventually start to use it again I'll be about 5-10x better than a PPU who had been relying on it the whole time.
Simply put constant removal of DB/Para/Poison is a tad rediculus..
Pistol PE's can be heavily overpowered, they dont have the constraints a Rifle PE has, i have to stick everything into weaponlore just to get decent rate of fire on a pain easer, whilst a pistol user can keep low lore, higher PSI, hack, and poke, and when the MC5 had no limits, as in, anyone could use it, it gave pistol PE's 2 chips to lib (with capped rof etc..). I still think pistol PE's are over powered, I just dont bitch about it, and a fair few people also think pistol PE's are over powered, its just everyone's to busy bitching about monks, but, soon as monks are nerfed to hell, Pistol PE's will be next.
PE's use freezers now, the little spells, it slows people down a little, i dont bitch about that either.
PPU's should be considered a fortress, they should "never" be solo'able, one person shouldnt be able to kill a PPU, ever, but its possible, and over-riding high level anything with low level, would be exploited to high heaven, one PE casts def, the other shelter, then changes over, the PPU is going to have to wait for one PE to cast his 2nd buff, which one will it be, which is going to do down etc.. nope, a PPU should be able to override any spell set on him/her, and that spell should then stick.
*voted no*
it's nearly there, but it's just PPUs imo are slightly overpowered. Not ubbar gods. Parashock should stay though.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 23:30
Im kinda lovin this shti about nerfing rez..i post about it i get flamed to high heaven....you mention it and half the people go hmm ok sounds like it might work :D...talk about bias popularity contests :P
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 23:38
Well...trying to find balance is hard....it's insane to please everyone, especially when some people are just plain annoyingly stubborn and awkward...
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 23:47
damn straight QD..was born this way and im dyin this way..with or without my parashock :P
Dribble Joy
10-10-03, 23:47
Ugh.
The whole, buff to debuff thing may work... kinda, but it don't feel right.
Para needs to go.
Rezzing in combat is fucking annoying, leaching hp won't work for various reasons.
Being hit by people to counter it, would have too many problems.
If it doesnt allready, rez should drain the mana pool regardless of how big it is.
Possibly cause SI to the PPU, the concentration needed to bring someone back from the dead.
Gah, a complex issue indeed.
I don't think Holy Cath Santcum should be removed and I don't think that lower level buffs should be able to overide higher ones, but other than that it looks good.
Gets my vote. All seems reasonable to me. The reason you can't please most of the people here is because they won't admit there's a problem. If they don't agree there's a problem then they won't agree anything needs to change. It's hybrids all over again basically.
Shadow Dancer
11-10-03, 00:00
Gets my vote.
Dribble Joy
11-10-03, 00:08
Sod it.
*votes yes.
Serious tweakage needed though.
I think buffing by using low lvl spells should be over-ridable, and double/triple/whatever buffing should not override these.
PEs are IMO balanced and this would possibly make them overpowered (the wrong word in these times of discontent)
Remove Holy cath sanc and Parashock.
Increase RoF of Holy Cath.
Increase rez time/mana use, SI to PPU (possibly)
Meh, what do I know?
Originally posted by Ryuben
yeah :rolleyes: remove PPU's then you would have people begging for PE's to come lvling with them, because who the fuck can solo MC5?? have PE's drunging up and specing to use rezzz alig u play a char that has low INT don't act the same way
Few words for you.....Fucking Shut Up.
Why would i seriously want ppu's removing when ive got a capped APU :mad: :rolleyes: n00b.....
Also APU monks dont have low int you shithead.
Perhaps raise the TL of the lower level shelter sanctum + deflector sanctum and make all single target shelter/deflector spells selfcast [viva le hybrid]? Or making the over riding of an existing defense/heal be dependant on the TL of the newer shelter/deflector/heal, in that the newer cast has to be equal or greater TL and for the previous 2 suggestions making a dynamic time limit to the length of a shelter/deflector/heal which is reduced by the amount of damage that defense absorbs [and increased by the damage % of the caster]? Or decreasing [again] the recovery rate of psi boosters then decreasing the cost of all spells except parashocks. Or increase the casting time on rezzing [again].
I'm all for reducing dependance of combat on ppu's, but they should be somewhat difficult to kill. I dislike being parashocked, but that's what the anti shock drugs are for [except for the ease of recasting and low mana cost that might have been the solution right there for parashocks], the real problem I have is when a ppu is standing still rezzing a team mate and taking fire from 3+ guys and totally ignoring it, then when the guy stands up, we have maybe a second to kill him before a holy heal makes him almost invulnerable, also stopping the attack on the ppu for 20 seconds and he can rez 2+ guys who might take as much as 2 minutes each to kill... if we can separate them from the ppu.
I DO believe that ppu's should have some form of attack, and something signifigant enough they can solo hunt with, after all a ppu is a support class, but that doesn't always mean they will have someone there to support. Such a change may be removing damage on parashocks and increasing damage/firing frequency on soulclusters.
I just feel that reducing the range of a ppu's abilities is not the way to balance them, nor some kind of on/off effect [excluding apu's antibuffs, as if everyone had access to them, ppu's would be overly weakened], but rather to reduce the effect of specific abilities.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Pistol PE's can be heavily overpowered, they dont have the constraints a Rifle PE has, i have to stick everything into weaponlore just to get decent rate of fire on a pain easer, whilst a pistol user can keep low lore, higher PSI, hack, and poke, and when the MC5 had no limits, as in, anyone could use it, it gave pistol PE's 2 chips to lib (with capped rof etc..). I still think pistol PE's are over powered, I just dont bitch about it, and a fair few people also think pistol PE's are over powered, its just everyone's to busy bitching about monks, but, soon as monks are nerfed to hell, Pistol PE's will be next.
PE's use freezers now, the little spells, it slows people down a little, i dont bitch about that either.
Yeah, damm those Pistol PEs, they can do everything and gimp their range, so they cant aim at all unless they are so close they can give you a hug while trying to wait 5sec for the lib aim to lock.
Yeah Pistol PEs use freezers now? Yeah that Parashocklance and the tl 1 parashockbolt makes PEs too good. Hybrids all over again.
Also, ive seen people ask PEs for buffs like "shelter". Omg, soon enough everyone will ask PEs for buffs all the time and everyone will forget about the PPUs!!!!!!!
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