View Full Version : N00b tactics to win a fight :/
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 18:30
It really bothers me how people will revert to exploits and n00b tactics rather than skill to win a fight :/
KK should fix this somehow
http://www.artuproar.com/uploads/skins/previews/n00b1.jpg
http://www.artuproar.com/uploads/skins/previews/n00b2.jpg
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:32
I'm with ya on that one, check Judges Thread a little ways down
2 secs after i make a whine thread about this subject my clanmates go do it to cc, i was even there 8|
That sucks, but, gotaa admit one of the few ways to really gank a ppu.
But,.
its bollocks.
... O_o
I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused. CC, can you explain what the exact exploit is?
And I'm also sorry on two counts before you can reply to my first question but..
1.) If I'm understanding this right (Again, please explain what the exact problem was), them buffing you so you can't do higher buffs, whether cheap or not, is a tactic to win nonetheless. Shorting out a ppu's own protection may very well be one of the only ways you can kill a PPU currently, if they're skilled and at top buff capability. Besides, if they had implemented the buff system the way I'd have liked (being able to switch out/in buffs before the timers were up), this would indeed mean less power on the PPU in return.
2.) Erm...how many times did they heal you? O_o
Also, I can see classes other than monks starting to have more use. =P
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:42
[please do not make baseless accusations about exploits]
I hate newbies that weren't around to see the whole development of the game ~ or people that just conveniently forget when it suits them.
Vampire222
10-10-03, 18:44
well see it as a big compliment cc... i never get tl3 healed :( so im quite sad people kill me without lame tactics! :mad:
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 18:44
[do not make baseless accusations about exploiting]
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
[edited for consistency]
Heheh translated into noob speak as:
Stfu and get some skillz noobie.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Joking,
when you deprive someone of using their basic equipment, you gain an unfair advantage,
either fix it,
or give ppu's a spell to cast to stop people using weapons armor spells, resists health, etc, inf act fuck it, lets all make evryone start capped at 0/2 with lowbie skillzes.
Fistorama Biatch
i shouted at a friend in a certain tg clan last night too because of his clans lame tatics and the fact they darent fight me on evn numbers without at least 2 ppu`s to each of their offensive fights
pussys really piss me off
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 18:46
they should just take ppus out of the game and give spys a ressurect ability
oh and they also had around 6 ppl there too just to kill me and STILL used lame tactics... thats funny
[QUOTE][edited for consistency]QUOTE]
healing someone is an exploit ? why shouldn't u be able to "crappy" buff a ppu, works well for me :) ... its a tactic like anything else, i haven't heard of a GM or dev calling this an exploit, just you...
YO crypto maybe you should have been moving and running instead of getting a good photo angle and standing there making sure everyone was posed right.
bla bla bla ff have 100 peops we had 4 bla bla
same old story
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 18:51
[edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
Originally posted by KimmyG
YO crypto maybe you should have been moving and running instead of getting a good photo angle and standing there making sure everyone was posed right.
maybe, but considering with ALL spell's you dont actually need line of sight, if they just had the dot on him when they hit the mouse button he coulda been around the other side of the world and the spell woulda still hit him........
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 18:53
Originally posted by Morrow36
healing someone is an exploit ? why shouldn't u be able to "crappy" buff a ppu, works well for me :) ... its a tactic like anything else, i haven't heard of a GM or dev calling this an exploit, just you...
just me? how bout the 80% of the other people on the forum and in games... i only see ff doing this n00b tactic....
you expect a gm to call this exploit? GMs are volunteer and dont get such a privalige n00b....
you expect a dev to call this exploiting? im not even sure the know what game they are coding for in the first place
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:57
[again, cool it with these baseless allegations of exploits]
Running or not the heal will still get landed on him...
Get a apu with antibuff.... after all there the only class that should be taking out ppus..... kk's way
Suprised there wasn't any stealth turreters to.... :p
you expect a gm to call this exploit? GMs are volunteer and dont get such a privalige n00b....
i won't accept it as an exploit and will continue todo it untill it is officially announced as one... also i have asked GMs about exploits to make sure i haven't been doing so in the past and they seem to have a very clear idea of what they are.
[edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
And morrow...
What you're saying is similar to "Its not murder because it wasn't done with a gun".
There's a precedent to follow, that precedent was brought up with the use of psi sheild.
[edited for consistency]
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 19:09
actually i recall speaking to a GM about this and he said he is aware of the problem and they are working on it and he knows its an exploit... ill just report the ppl who did it to me and see what happens
Originally posted by Marx
[edited for consistency] [/B]
Without mana ur a fucking meat brick. with a shit shelter u still can do stuff your just weaker.Funny to see PPUs bitch about this though seeing as I will alwasy get hit with usless buffs from them. Giving my pistol PE rifle boosts and so on.
Cryotchekk
10-10-03, 19:11
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Without mana ur a fucking meat brick. with a shit shelter u still can do stuff your just weaker.Funny to see PPUs bitch about this though seeing as I will alwasy get hit with usless buffs from them. Giving my pistol PE rifle boosts and so on.
ONOZ< LOLZ BUT DUZ IT PREVENT YOU FROM TEH CASTING HEALZ ON URSELF?!!1
No. Moot point.
Gotterdammerung
10-10-03, 19:16
First off, with all the allegations of this being an exploit that CC & QD are tossing around, this thread is teetering on closure. However, I'll let it remain open a bit more after I put in my 2 cents worth.
*these are my own personal opinions*
What purpose do you think the line of "anti" spells serve? to distract you for a moment or 2 when you own shelters/shields drop so you can them recast them, remain invincible and proceed to resurrect your dead friends? These "anti" spells are your achilles heel, it's your only weekness, and it's not like you run into people at every crossroads and corner casting "anti" spells on you willy-nilly. It happens once in a blue moon. That moment you are vulnerable is your opponents opportunity to try (yes try) to take advantage of your moment of weekness and their efforts do not always suceed. So the bottom line is......everybody dies. Sooner or later everyone gets killed by monsters, battle or happenstance no matter how good they are. Someone casting a tl3 heal on you after you have been anti-buffed is usung their only recourse to slay you, it's simple, good battle tactics.
And inspite of what many people think, I and many of the other people involved with the game are avid players.
*personal opinion off*
Now, keep this discussion above the boards, stop with all the "it's an exploit" talk and stay on topic.
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 19:16
[edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
crypto, u prob dont wanna hear this but if anyone remembers polarity. Every op fight he got ath shit done to him.
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 19:22
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
First off, with all the allegations of this being an exploit that CC & QD are tossing around, this thread is teetering on closure. However, I'll let it remain open a bit more after I put in my 2 cents worth.
*these are my own personal opinions*
What purpose do you think the line of "anti" spells serve? to distract you for a moment or 2 when you own shelters/shields drop so you can them recast them, remain invincible and proceed to resurrect your dead friends? These "anti" spells are your achilles heel, it's your ownly weekness, and it's not like you run into people at every crossroads and corner casting "anti" spells on you willy-nilly. It happens once in a blue moon. That moment you are vulnerable is your opponents opportunity to try (yes try) to take advantage of your moment of weekness and their efforts do not always suceed. So the bottom line is......everybody dies. Sooner or later everyone gets killed by monsters, battle or happenstance no matter how good they are. Someone casting a tl3 heal on you after you have been anti-buffed is usung their only recourse to slay you, it's simple, good battle tactics.
And inspite of what many people think, I and many of the other people involved with the game are avid players.
*personal opinion off*
Now, keep this discussion above the boards, stop with all the "it's an exploit" talk and stay on topic.
well your right that is your 'personal oppinion'. From your post it seems to me that you dont play this game much because anti-shields do not happen once in a blue moon they happen every 5 seconds if its a good clan... [cool it with all the "exploit" talk] so in other words, i dissagree
Cryotchekk
10-10-03, 19:22
also make it so people cant drop turrets when stealthed during op wars (coughffcough) coz that is rather gay to. not quite as gay as box camping though, but still gay.
[i][edited for consistency][/B]
[don't feed the trools please]it seems like ur deliberately trying to get ur own threads closed
[QUOTE][i][edited for consistency][QUOTE] I lov these threads. Wolfwood, every small battle I was in with Polarity and an APU he did the low buffs crap. Every battle I have ever been in since APU's learned antibuff, every side does this. Hell I've even done it myself. The whole "you do it but not me" is bull shit. Grow the fuck up all of you.
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 19:24
[edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 19:24
Sigh, CC, if you're going to complain about these buffs don't name names.
There are people on uranus that do it too, I haven't named a single one.
I am not saying that people are exploiting, Gotter, so much as I am arguing that their "tactic" is an exploit, I am not saying these people should be banned for doing it.
I am simply trying to change their oppinion since if you note my comment in bold, that is, how this game stands.
Period.
PPUs are not meant to be killable by just two people, that, in itself, is sad considering what a PPU is supposed to be doing.
If this is the true nature of the PPU the point of them being there on the battle field is far less of worth than anyone can make them out to be, because simply they can be removed with the level of attack it would take to kill a badly configured PE.
That is why it's a borderline exploit.
and would you pluto people stop biting at eachother? how often do you see the other servers yelling at eachother? not as often as you guys go at it.
your thread, not mine :rolleyes:
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 19:26
[edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 19:28
Well this thing is closed -_-
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 19:29
i dont care anymore.... this game has pushed me too far im sick of it
Cryotchekk
10-10-03, 19:30
b4 it is closed, i want to ask kk, how fucking hard can it be to make boxes solid?
i never tl3 heal people(ok maybe 1 or 2 times before everyone did, but not anymore), ive thought about it, and i know everyone does it, but its low. i'd rather die and know i fought a fight then be cheap, cast wrong buffs on someone just to win. ive had br1 and psi combat 3 cast on my ppu a few times, and my PE and tank have also got wrong buffs alot. wont drop names.... but if you play uranus you know what clans will do whatever to win.
now if i get the wrong buffs on me, i just leave. i dont even fight people like that
Solution- Remove Psi Monks
ONOZ!
Its not an exploit and its not lame. whats lame is when a stupid ppu stands there laughing as 3 people shoot him. Its the only way to kill good ppus, i tl 3 heal and tl 3 defelct ppus all day long, stops em from being so cocky. omg WOW your a ppu who can take good damage, aent YOU special? if u dont want it one on you, run around zig zagging. when you go to ress, put your heal on then immeditly switch to ress... I hope tl 3 tactics stays in game, ppus have to go down.
Sorry crypto, but i really cant feel sorry for you because u cant stand there laughing at 5 people while they shoot you and you ress someone. ppus need weaknesses.
Why dont you ty being a pe, spy, tank or apu for once instead of hybred o ppu and see what ts like to fight against one instead of always being one so you can see how lame it is when a ppu that an army is shooting just wont die.
...Hm...
After some consideration, I'll just point out something, and then I'll leave CC to heal his wounds.
If I'm understanding this, to you, CC, anti-buffing and then casting weak versions of buffs on you is an exploit. To you this is because it weakens your general effectiveness.
I'll throw this into another PoV. Monsters.
They have their poison, their fire. They throw it at you because it's their best stuff. They start out at their best general effectiveness.
Then you go along, get out some anti-whatever, some whatever resist drugs and/or buffs, and then you go stick one up their ass.
The only reason the monsters don't complain about us exploiting their setup is because they can't talk unless scripted to.
By the way, this is all based on how I see your views, so please step up if I read you wrong. :)
gotterschomottenthingy the 'anti spells'' arent the problem here, it's when some anti buffs ya and then gets a PE etc to cast a TL 3 heal, TL 25 shelt and TL 6 deflector on them, thats when the PPU gets the shaft.... thats the point in this thread, not the ''anti spells''
Guys calm it down, mod remove the stupid posts, and let the thread be civilised so that maybe something is done and higher level buffs can be cast over lower levels...
did I just say that ?
BlackPrince
10-10-03, 19:48
So if using a Tl3 heal is an exploit because it deprives the PPU of his basic abilities, I guess PPU's using HP is an exploit as well. It deprives other players from use of their basic abilities. Same goes for True Sight against stealthers.
Sorry, but so far all the arguments I've seen for it are full of holes. PPU's have this mindset that they are not meant to die and therefore are godlike in their scope and breadth.
Guess what, you're not. A tl3 heal and 3 shots from a SH later and you're ground beef just like the rest of us.
Don't like it? Start dodging and stop trying to show everyone how big your dick is by sitting their sucking up punishment for no other reason than the fact that you can.
At this juncture Tl3 is the only effective way for a non-monkified group to take out a PPU. Until such time as KK includes effective measures for non-monks to combat PPU's Tl3 healing should be left in game as our only viable offense.
Sorry to say its a legal move.
Game mechanics allow you to take the sheilds down and allow you others to recast sheild who casts them and what they cast are perfectly legal just like casstin PSI sheild was legit. Now that you cant cast PSI sheild if you were to find away to cast it that would be an expliot. But if the game mechanics allow it then its legal.
I have zero problem with the ability to end the BS of a PPU walking up to a dead running and casting rez and sheilding up and getting away with the rez'ed person while 5 players blaize that monk with all they got.
I dont see a problem with PPus having a weakness like every other char in the game does.
Gotterdammerung
10-10-03, 19:51
ok, after some surgery and the removal of offending posts, I'm reopening this for soem valid discussion, but understand that this thread is already walking on eggshells
What purpose do you think the line of "anti" spells serve? to distract you for a moment or 2 when you own shelters/shields drop so you can them recast them, remain invincible and proceed to resurrect your dead friends? These "anti" spells are your achilles heel
Exactly, the anti-spells are out there, why should we continue allowing the TL3 heal/shelter/etc EXPLOIT continue on?
How about this, you a tank casts his shity ppu spells on himself. Then his ppu friend comes along and wants to go hunt wb's with him. So instead of having the tank kill himself to get the ppu's buffs and boosts just let the HIGHER TL spells override the lower ones. But not the otherway around
Nullifidian
10-10-03, 20:50
The whining won't end until they DELETE THE PPUs
Originally posted by Owain
How about this, you a tank casts his shity ppu spells on himself. Then his ppu friend comes along and wants to go hunt wb's with him. So instead of having the tank kill himself to get the ppu's buffs and boosts just let the HIGHER TL spells override the lower ones. But not the otherway around
thats the way it should be dude.
I'm still slightly confused about this 'exploit'... O_o
If it's about anti-buffing and then casting weak buffs to short-circuit people, that's valid. Doesn't mean I'd do it, but I see it as valid.
If it's about weak buffs overriding strong buffs outright, now THAT'S wrong.
A PPU is all about defense and healing.
If they get a TL 3 heal casted on them, they can't use their uber heal. If they get a crap shelter on them, they can't cast their uber shelter, etc etc.
Leaving them wearing paper when they can be shrouded in titanium.
Figuratively.
@ Marx:
Is there something wrong about the APU anti-buffing the weakened PPU so that the PPU can rebuff to their max?
Seems like people put too much emphasis on the PPU these days.. =\
Its not about anti-buffing or APU's
Hell, a PE (corrected, see below) can royally fuck over a PPU with the TL 3 heal/shelter.
Nullifidian
10-10-03, 21:24
Originally posted by Marx
Its not about anti-buffing or APU's
Hell, a Tank can royally fuck over a PPU with the TL 3 heal/shelter.
Tanks can't cast shelter.
Neither can Spies unless they are drugged and gimped.
Its simple, higher TL spells should override the lower TL ones.
Every other comment in this thread about how “its okay as long as its in the game" is purely spam. Its obviously a major flaw and should be fixed.
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Tanks can't cast shelter.
Neither can Spies unless they are drugged and gimped.
Sorry, was thinking PE.
Originally posted by Mantus
Its simple, higher TL spells should override the lower TL ones.
Every other comment in this thread about how “its okay as long as its in the game" is purely spam. Its obviously a major flaw and should be fixed.
agree.
Marx...an APU ally of the PPU can debuff those shitty things from the Tank/PE/etc so the PPU can rebuff themselves...
Oh, but this would require most lilkely the PPU retreating or the APU coming, which would complicate matters.
Wouldn't this be why you have backup PPUs/APUs?
Something tells me this game doesn't even do clanwars right...and I'm starting to think it's because people don't have all the resources available to them at the moment they need them. Preparation, anyone? :o
To those that would retort by saying, "No, it's actually because of parashockspam/exploits/etc.", I hear ya, but perhaps you could try a little harder?
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 21:32
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
What purpose do you think the line of "anti" spells serve? to distract you for a moment or 2 when you own shelters/shields drop so you can them recast them, remain invincible and proceed to resurrect your dead friends?
anti-spells if used correctly in combination with other weaposn will effectivly drop 90% of the PPU's on any server. IF you cant do it it seems to be a personal skill or timing problem...so this is another excuse to use PASSIVE spells to kill people? FFS it was fine before, but now they have anti-buffs and shouldnt be using ghey tactics like this.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
These "anti" spells are your achilles heel, it's your only weekness, and it's not like you run into people at every crossroads and corner casting "anti" spells on you willy-nilly. It happens once in a blue moon.
umm..do you ever participate in OP battles? i get anti buffed atleast every 30 seconds...usually more towards the end of a losing battle..and most likly 4-5 times in a row when im the last man standing..
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
That moment you are vulnerable is your opponents opportunity to try (yes try) to take advantage of your moment of weekness and their efforts do not always suceed. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
yes TRY..with an anti-buff..takes some coordination and tactics to get it to work..ok now lets do anti-buff + newb spells..its basically a garunteed kill unless yur facing a very very exceptional PPU or are just plain unlucky.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
Now, keep this discussion above the boards, stop with all the "it's an exploit" talk and stay on topic.
it is an exploit/abuse...are you telling me a spell named "HEAL" was intended to kill people? Parashock can be argued..but HEAL?
----------------------------------------
a PPUs spells are its "weapons" TL3 healing a PPU is essentially replacing a tanks CS with a combat knife..CAN WE DO THAT? fuck no..why should they be able to do it to us.
@KimmyG "But if the game mechanics allow it then its legal."
Game mechanics allow LE barrelling and stun turrets trapping people in corners.....yet they are still exploits..please find a legitimate argument.
Originally posted by Kenjuten
Marx...an APU ally of the PPU can debuff those shitty things from the Tank/PE/etc so the PPU can rebuff themselves...
Oh, but this would require most lilkely the PPU retreating or the APU coming, which would complicate matters.
Wouldn't this be why you have backup PPUs/APUs?
Something tells me this game doesn't even do clanwars right...and I'm starting to think it's because people don't have all the resources available to them at the moment they need them. Preparation, anyone? :o
To those that would retort by saying, "No, it's actually because of parashockspam/exploits/etc.", I hear ya, but perhaps you could try a little harder?
Dude, its a flaw in the game. Stop trying to defend it. Its like saying that its okay for spies to lay turrets while stealthed or that certain spells should be able to kill newbs with LE's in or that peopel whith LE's in should be able to hurt other people. They are all flaws. Just because they are in the game doesnt mean they should stay in the game.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 21:35
Heh I was wrong in my PM.
18-21% frc/prc 120 sec (TL 3 Deflector)
27-35% fir/enr/xry 120 sec (TL 25 Shelter)
51-75% fir/enr/xry 120 sec (Holy Shelter)
45-73% frc/prc 120 sec (Holy Deflector)
Include 50% reduction in protection afforded by Foreign based casts on the first two spells.
TL 3 Deflector = 9-10.5%
TL 25 Shelter = 13.5-17.5% for the PPU.
Then there's heal spam (52/min on my PEs heal, I don't get 52/min on my holy heal but of course I'm not INT Capped yet).
This is much the same as PSI Shield casting, you lose defence to a crippling degree.
Hense the Para vs Over-ride Poll.
Originally posted by Kenjuten
Marx...an APU ally of the PPU can debuff those shitty things from the Tank/PE/etc so the PPU can rebuff themselves...
Oh, but this would require most lilkely the PPU retreating or the APU coming, which would complicate matters.
Wouldn't this be why you have backup PPUs/APUs?
Something tells me this game doesn't even do clanwars right...and I'm starting to think it's because people don't have all the resources available to them at the moment they need them. Preparation, anyone? :o
To those that would retort by saying, "No, it's actually because of parashockspam/exploits/etc.", I hear ya, but perhaps you could try a little harder?
So just like how tanks had to keep PPU's in their asspocket... now PPU's have to do the same with APU's?
Hell, it'd just be easier to make the stronger higher TL buffs/heals override the lower.
Originally posted by Mantus
Stop trying to defend it. Its like saying that its okay for spies to lay turrets while stealthed or that certain spells should be able to kill newbs with LE's in or that peopel whith LE's in should be able to hurt other people. They are all flaws. Just because they are in the game doesnt mean they should stay in the game.
exactly.
Most of these GMs/Mods speak with experience from the German servers.
You have to keep in mind that things are almost entirely different in terms of ethics, playstyle, and general picture, in another region server. This applies to many games I know, as well as here.
Marx, I 100% agree that higher TL versions of kinds of spells should override a lower TL version, but until then...?
Also, beforehand you had to have a PPU in your asspocket, or so I understood. What's so wrong with having dual dependancy, where one (sub)class has to help out another (sub)class, and do the same to each other? What's so bad about having a PPU depend on another class to help them out?
On the other hand, this could be why the APU/PPU combo seems to be so extreme...hm...
Interdependancy is great.
But it doesn't change the fact that in this situation the TL 3 heal is being used to kill instead of heal.
When PPUs stop ruining my game, I will stop ruining yours.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 21:45
When you stop ruining my game ill not ruin yours.....my parashock and DB is usually only used to counteract your invincastealth.
BlackPrince
10-10-03, 22:23
Stealth makes us invincible?
Look Martha, Quasimoto got his PhD in Rocket Science!
Think again there bub. Real easy to parashock a stealther if you're half competent. Its not that hard for a PPU to stick to the stealthers ass and track him down, or for an APU to barrell the most likely spots for the stealther to run to.
anyways, do you what you want. /set god_mode on.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 22:36
I love the barrel excuse, just love them... this isnt a stealth thread..go start one and ill explain the 'flaws' in the stealth concept. Mind you ive enjoyably played every class int his game to within 3 levels of total cap or complete cap with the exception of my monks INT, so anything i present is pretty in biased.
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
@KimmyG "But if the game mechanics allow it then its legal."
Game mechanics allow LE barrelling and stun turrets trapping people in corners.....yet they are still exploits..please find a legitimate argument.
Thats my point.
Your not allowed to hit an LE'ed player but by doing something differn't you can hit them. Game mechanics deny hitting LE's but there is a way around that. Hitting LE'ed is an expliot.
How ever you can target and buff someone when ever you want you point and shoot. You dont need to do anything differn't what is this now you need permision to cast buffs on people.
what is this now you need permision to cast buffs on people.
No, its simple and common-sensical. Make the higher TL spell override the lower one. Prevents this - and also makes hunting and stuff easier.
KidWithStick
10-10-03, 22:43
i like it how at the GR entrance of chester the DarK APU's like to go in 3rd person and shoot over the wall.
if only i had fraps on :o
That's one of the reasons I ALWAYS keep a heal on myself, even if I don't need it. It takes little time to cast and I can runcast most of the time (if I don't run straight ahead that is, which is a little too much to ask with all dex in agl and enough in ath)...
It's routine stuff really after a while, often I don't even notice I do it ;)
BlackPrince
10-10-03, 22:47
Congrats Sig, I cited an example someone used and now I'm trying to hijack? Don't flatter yourself. As for all you've achieved, thats very nice and all, heres your cookie.
Back to the point though, the majority of PPU's I've met have this mindset where they don't Die . Somehow they believe that they can only be killed by an APU, therefore anything which doesn't allow them to walk on water must be an exploit.
Until a representative of Reakktor, Incorporated says its an exploit, its not. Until such time its a legal and valid countermeasure employed by non-Monks to take care of an obvious case of inbalance.
Love it, hate it, or what ever, I don't care. Shut up and deal with it.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 22:53
Originally posted by KidWithStick
i like it how at the GR entrance of chester the DarK APU's like to go in 3rd person and shoot over the wall.
if only i had fraps on :o
I love how the PIMP APUs do the same thing by standing on the debree in the Seiger hack room....not that it has shit to do with the price of tea in china..OR the contents of this thread..
Tho I wasn't aware there was a place to do this at chester.. *runs to check it out* I know plenty of places an APU can "abuse" third person and be completely hidden while targetting you.
Anyway Kimmy..yes you have a point with the LE killing..but still the turrets....I'm sure theres plenty of other minor exploits still in the game that the mechanics allow without having to do 'special things' to get them to work. (like zone)
"Love it, hate it, or what ever, I don't care. Shut up and deal with it" YES EXCELLENT IDEA shut up and deal with whatever you dont like..that way KK has no idea that many people disagree with the way it works or was implimented...so they can continually add unbalanced and lame things to the game and not even realise the effect it has..
Whiety Bulger
10-10-03, 23:04
[edited for violation of the forum rules - bringing unwanted attention to another runner]
BlackPrince
10-10-03, 23:04
Hey, we spies have been told that since Day 1. Get used to it. 99% of the people now bitching about how Monks are getting unfairly nerfed were hybrids 3 months ago, tanks before that, etc. and so forth.
It's always going to be a game of "Follow t3h uber!!11!", time to enjoy your fun under the nerfhammer. KK wouldn't know balance if it came and bit them on the ass. I don't even blame them when the playerbase can't decide on whats balanced and whats not.
One thing I do know is that right now the current system has failed miserably, so at this point almost any change has an equal chance of success or failure.
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
Anyway Kimmy..yes you have a point with the LE killing..but still the turrets....I'm sure theres plenty of other minor exploits still in the game that the mechanics allow without having to do 'special things' to get them to work. (like zone)
IM just saying its not an expliot some go on like it should be a bannable offence as of now it is tactic it may be cheap or lame but I feel its a legit move all around.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 23:15
I'll say it again since I've now talked to Nid about it.. :p
To my mind, TL 3 Heal, TL 3 Deflector and TL 25 Sheltering PPUings is exploiting because it works in the same precident as PSI Sheild, it is a buff which is meant for curative, or defencive use, that is being used offencively, in a way that limits the function of another class.
Parashock limits movement in the same way.
For all those people that whine about paraspam, you are, the exact same as the paraspammers as you do these actions, it's not an exploit, but you hate it, don't you?
So, the solution is simple, remove the ability to do those foreign based buffs and remove parashock from PvP.
The foreign based cast of Shelter/Deflector restrains a PPU from casting their own self holy buffs for two minutes, this is something which is paralelled by the PSI Shield, which was cast on PPUs and Hybrids to drain their mana pool allowing them to either, not attack, or not cast buffs.
It's not been declared an exploit, but how can you possibly provide a straight faced argument that says it's not borderline when you read this argument thoroughly? o_O
edit;
wow....t0tt3....just...wow..... I'm so blown away by that..... I mean I don't even know how to approach that...... o_O
I am drunk but happy to write this down :lol:
This will take me some time but PPU sucks they ruin all the PvP
Me as a APU can run at least 1000 m to get to the gr ant have 2 tanks and a APU hunting me down and I can still *hick* take the GR thats lame....... Kill THE ppu m;ael ppu DIE YES IM IN ABIT HURRY liilkillM MIHAHHAH NO IM NOT 14 LOL *:P ops casp... oh well nod kill me :D
Well if the situation was differm't I might be inclined to agree that this is a lame form of borderline exploitation cheapness. But as of now I have seen PPUs take the dmg delt by a ton of players. Some of whom run around taunting high lvls as they take the beating from every form of attack. If there were other ways to bring down a PPU I could be sympathetic.
But right now this is the only weak point in there defence so untill things are a bit differn't all I have to say is though shit.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 23:40
There are other ways..anti-buff... its not an insta win..but then PPUs dont magically stay alive to survive such beatings..takes skill to stay alive..and takes skill to drop one...fair deal...having newb buffs on top of that is pretty much a double advantage with no drawback and minimal requirements.
And trust me..ive dropped plenty of PPU's SOLO as an APU..even before i could use the rare anti-buff....most PPU's are not as godlike as many would like to think..takes practice, know how, and at times luck, and most often reliance ony our opponents lack of skill/knowledge/experience. Not to mention..any PPU PPU taking fire form 10+ peple etc etc is WAY to busy to be of any use to his team other then a really really juicy decoy. Look at it this way too.. a PPU alone is useless..all he can do is run aroudn and piss you off...and its fairly easy to drop his entire team.
Oh BTW KWS i just spent the last 20 minutes or so at chester..found 2 places to 'abuse' 3rd person camera..one im pretty sure the APU is still within LOS tho...and neither of them give view "over or through" the front walls. theres other places but they let u get a nice hidden view of a back wall woohoo..real exploit.
Sigma Im not talking about some n00b shity ppu im talking about the good ones. Hell some ppu's you dont even need to debuff hitting them with apoc or HL is more than enough to bring them down. But the good ones even with anti-buff it is an absoute bitch and frankly unless you get a nice drop on them or nail them off guard I dont think its possible to wet dream about soloing them.
SigmaDraconis
10-10-03, 23:56
Well the number of godly PPU's isnt that high..if they dont die its usually do to lack of competant APU's, like i said..it takes skill to stay alive.so naturally it should take skill to drop a PPU..esspeccially a PPU...many APU's ive ever talked to dont even own an anti-shield...because of their lack of intelligence you and others feel the competant and good people should now have yet ANOTHER way to drop a PPU..which is also coincidentally cheap and borderline exploitive. Shitty fact is newb buffing is easier then anti-buffing in many situations.
TL 3 heal, TL 6 deflector, TL 25 Shelter are NOT EXPLOITS.
Live with it. And if you won't, why don't you just QUIT neocron or QUIT the damn whining!
And I'm for the higher TL heal/def/shelt over-riding the lower TL stuff.
And oh, every whinebitchmoan will be forwared to /dev/null 'cause I'm in FF :p
// Wannabe
Ps. What the hell is up when you guys lose an op fight againts us you start blaiming us for exploiting?!
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
Well the number of godly PPU's isnt that high..if they dont die its usually do to lack of competant APU's, like i said..it takes skill to stay alive.so naturally it should take skill to drop a PPU..esspeccially a PPU...many APU's ive ever talked to dont even own an anti-shield...because of their lack of intelligence you and others feel the competant and good people should now have yet ANOTHER way to drop a PPU..which is also coincidentally cheap and borderline exploitive. Shitty fact is newb buffing is easier then anti-buffing in many situations.
Antibuff is nothing to a good ppu. You can time a shelter to be recast within a second of antibuff finishing. Then cast a deflector at 52/min = just over one second, and follow up with a heal just in case. Antibuff is only really effective if you either use low level buffs in conjunction with it or if you can cast it without the ppu noticing. The screenshot CC posted shows him in front of enemies who are trying to take him down. He's going to notice an antibuff, which means he can completely nullify its effect. That means the only way he's going to die is if he is low level buffed.
The simple fact is, there are now far too many people playing ppu chars who are for the most part invulnerable, who spend their entire lives parashocking, then shit talking when someone tries to kill them. It is the most annoying part of the game atm, and it's one of the reasons when I only have an hour to spare, I don't bother with Neocron any more, I'd rather spend time playing DoD or NS since if someone shit talks me there I can actually kill them without them zone hopping, or being flatly invulnerable.
BlackPrince
11-10-03, 02:01
"He who lives by the sword will be shot by someone who doesn't."
Suggest you PPU's learn and adapt.
SigmaDraconis
11-10-03, 02:12
yur right a good PPU can completely out do a single anti-buff...waa you cant solo him...good i say..otherwise the class is too vulnerable on his own..forget trying to support a team.
Most PPU's arent good...ffs atleast on pluto..I cant think of but a handful of PPUs that i coudlnt solo kill as an APU, most PPU's i encountered dropped to spamming of a single damage type often without even anti-shield. On the other hand... 2 good coordinated APU's can drop any good organized PPU... its rather equal with just the anti-spells, the no0b buffing is just a cheap underhanded way of saying "i dunno wtf im doing with an APU". Its easier..more common..and more effective...not to mention completely hypocritical of the spells nature...and you see nothing wrong with that O.O
Originally posted by BlackPrince
"He who lives by the sword will be shot by someone who doesn't."
Suggest you PPU's learn and adapt.
then give us a sword. cus right now our sword would be a parashock which everyone wants taken out. that reply was just as usefull as a "why dont you leave" reply.
SigmaDraconis
11-10-03, 02:16
Originally posted by BlackPrince
"He who lives by the sword will be shot by someone who doesn't."
Suggest you PPU's learn and adapt.
We can and we do...the only time no0b buffs ever get me is when im spammed with 300 toxic or flamer effects and some genious at KK decided new effects should stack on the bottom of yur list and shove yur buffs 500m out of visable sight above yur RPOS so you have no fucking clue whats going on. Opps i revealed a weakness..and an abstract tactic all at the same time :O Amazingly enough FF is the only clan with the brains to do this....the poison does jack all to me honestly..but the graphical effect alone is enough to keep me guessing as to wether im buffed or not.
@ SovKhan:
He meant that those who live honorably will usually will be at least harassed by those who don't and at worst be destroyed by an evil power, nowadays.
In short: Fight sand in your eyes with dirt in their mouth if you don't like it, until they fix the problem.
SigmaDraconis
11-10-03, 02:22
" I know this is bad..i know i probably shouldnt do it, but mommy never specifically said I _couldnt_ so im gonna try n get away with it as long as i can untill mommy spankies me"
O_o Sigma... lol
Maybe I should rephrase.
It IS a bad thing if you stoop to someone's level, and go eye-for-an-eye, but you don't have to do that. You can either do worse, and 1up them, or do better and make them shut up or cry.
That's why I said fight sand with dirt and not fight sand with sand. It's just bad form :D
I think that TL3 heal is a bit pathetic... ok.. one anti buff can't kill a GOOD ppu (which 9/10 ppus on pluto won't even see). If u only have 1 apu and a small force you shouldn't be able to kill a PPU anyway + in a big fight ull get about 3 or 4 anit-buffs.
Plus why are you only talking about anti buff? Heal only lasts 15 seconds ffs u get 4 chances a minute...
PPus don't destroy pvp if PPUs weren't there you would argue That fights weren't long enough or something else.. someone will always argue about something. KK won't delete PPUs as so many people would leave hence less money.
Thread has gone to far and i think it has proven that lots of people want higher TL items to go over low TL.
Syntax-Error
11-10-03, 03:04
Lots of ppl want Para spam to stop and i wont let them take my TL3 heal tactic untill paraspam is fixed
SigmaDraconis
11-10-03, 03:09
sin begets sin I guess o.0 Parashock isnt even in my belt..if my clan mates cant hit a moving target they need the practice..i para each person maybe once or twice a battle lol
Nullifidian
11-10-03, 06:18
All of this arguing is pathetic.
Clearly if you actually wanted balance, you'd ask that PPUs be removed from the game entirely.
But you don't want balance. You just want to bitch. So please, by all means, bitch to your hearts content. Shit might get changed, but it will still be unbalanced. You'll all still be unhappy, and this still won't be a a roleplaying game.
Being able to cast a tlv3 heal and some n00b shelt0r on a high lvl ppu just shows one thing: YOUR TIMING SUCKS!!!!!!!!11111111111
Originally posted by Deicide
Being able to cast a tlv3 heal and some n00b shelt0r on a high lvl ppu just shows one thing: YOUR TIMING SUCKS!!!!!!!!11111111111
yeap its hard to time anti sheild AND low lvl shelter than just to anti shield...
Its up to the ppu to make it not happen...
anything that can kill a ppu is good in my book...
im with you CC and QD
but i dont think it will change :(
look at parts of these posts.. lame excuses in every of those threads...
some ppl just need such things to win fights and they know when they loose their "tricks" they're fucked..
its like the hybrids ... there are too many haters out there =/
i say it again... exploits are ABUSING GAME MECHANICS
and tl 3 healing other ppl to STOP them HEALING themselves what the purpose of a ppu is.. is NOT the point of a tl 3 heal ffs
Originally posted by CryptoChronic
i dont care anymore.... this game has pushed me too far im sick of it
yup !
/e
Being able to cast a tlv3 heal and some n00b shelt0r on a high lvl ppu just shows one thing: YOUR TIMING SUCKS!!!!!!!!11111111111
dude you dont know wtf you are talking about .. come to pluto to some op wars... you and a tank for example vs 10 ppl from 2 certain clans... and i tell you that you have 2 -4 ppl around you that dont do anything else then constantly casting tl 3 heal and noob buffs on you... so mr uber timing ppu.. come to pluto and show me that YOU can time that
.cy
ack doublepost :I
delete pls
olololololol... dude, you`ve been ZERGED!1111111ROFL
Cryotchekk
11-10-03, 10:25
ppu's aint that hard to kill really, but i do think the low tl stuff is stupid and exploiting. its been around for ages, obviously no1 noticed.
box camping sucks.
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
ppu's aint that hard to kill really, but i do think the low tl stuff is stupid and exploiting. its been around for ages, obviously no1 noticed.
box camping sucks.
here we go... first intelligent thing i`ve read in this thread
true, this "exploit" has been around for ages, but nobody complained about this ...
I almost never played anything else than monk, but I think this "TL3-heal" trick is ok; actually I like to hear that more people use this now. I don't call this an exploit, even if it can be used against me. In fact I give kudos to those who do, because it shows they play not only with the trigger of their guns but with their brains.
There are many ways to kill PPUs and I hope this low-tech-"override" will be one of them even in the future (and I play PPU :-P). Thats how the magic works. Either you adapt, or you die.
Originally posted by Scikar
Antibuff is nothing to a good ppu. You can time a shelter to be recast within a second of antibuff finishing. Then cast a deflector at 52/min = just over one second, and follow up with a heal just in case. Antibuff is only really effective if you either use low level buffs in conjunction with it or if you can cast it without the ppu noticing. The screenshot CC posted shows him in front of enemies who are trying to take him down. He's going to notice an antibuff, which means he can completely nullify its effect. That means the only way he's going to die is if he is low level buffed.
how come the APU with antibuff that arrived just after cc took that pic dropped him like a bag of rocks then?
All that want TL3 heals removed as an offensive weapon,
Keeps talking about using antibuffs instead.
Well not everyone is running around with lots of APU monks.
In Fallen Angels we have been killed repeately,
and it doesnt matter how big the task force is.
You can send 14 people like SS did,
or just the random Killing like DARK, with 1 monk team.
We never have any monks of high rank so were dead before we retaliate.
And it doesnt matter how many Tank, Spies and Private Eyes we are.
So far we have refrained from using TL3 heals and buffs,
mostly because were dead before ever getting a chance to cast them.
But we feel we shouldnt be forced to use such options.
Remove the option of using aggressive Passive modules,
but by god give us some way to kill a PPU monk if we dont have are APU/PPU monks.
(I wonder why FF and DARK all are monks, certainly not because they have an advantage in playing those classes).
APU and PPu are bot support classes.. if the enemy has a ppu maybe u should have to have a ppu. Same as if they have a good apu, u needa good ppu to keep u alive.
lots of people have proven u can kill PPus with just low tech weaponary.
I tried to get back into this post, but after the first three pages, i gave up, theres simply too much flaming and bs going on.
Untill KK come forward and Say *XPLOITOR JOO MUTHA TRUCKA* then its just tactics, although it does gain an unfair advantage, wich, according to kk's policy CONSTITUTES an exploit, tbh it seems like tactics, lam ass mo foing tactics yeah, but tactics none the less.
I wonder why the thread isnt actually just closed though.
And........tactics or not, i agree that that is suck a farkkin noobie thing to do,
noobs: 'we cant kill you mr ppu'
ppu: 'get some skills then'
noobs: 'no we'll noob heal you instead'
ppu: 'oh fuck'
Ah well, like i said till kk say its a) an exploit or b) good tactics c)lame tactics, then theres not much help getting done bitchin on the forums about it, abuse here (abuse@neocron.com)
Peace out brothers, n sisters.
SigmaDraconis
11-10-03, 15:10
@ken- the mommy spanking thing was more a general statement directed at all the people saying this is a legit tactic..not you directly :P
Originally posted by Calabim
(I wonder why FF and DARK all are monks, certainly not because they have an advantage in playing those classes).
Were not all all monks :P Anyway...most of the people in DarK who are monks have been monks since they started playing. I rolled a PPU because we were WAY behind other major clans with the number of PPU's we had. Any new people that've joined asked to join, it's not like we asked them just because they were monks. And for any new recruits...look around at the unclanned CS runners...99% of them are monks..maybe theyre trying to role play.
"I almost never played anything else than monk, but I think this "TL3-heal" trick is ok; actually I like to hear that more people use this now. I don't call this an exploit, even if it can be used against me. In fact I give kudos to those who do, because it shows they play not only with the trigger of their guns but with their brains."
A con artists doesnt brutally beat you and steal yur credit cards and wallet either, so do you still give him kudos for tricking you out of yur money? ( like KK!! )
CryptoChronic
12-10-03, 20:09
Originally posted by VetteroX
Its not an exploit and its not lame. whats lame is when a stupid ppu stands there laughing as 3 people shoot him. Its the only way to kill good ppus, i tl 3 heal and tl 3 defelct ppus all day long, stops em from being so cocky. omg WOW your a ppu who can take good damage, aent YOU special? if u dont want it one on you, run around zig zagging. when you go to ress, put your heal on then immeditly switch to ress... I hope tl 3 tactics stays in game, ppus have to go down.
Sorry crypto, but i really cant feel sorry for you because u cant stand there laughing at 5 people while they shoot you and you ress someone. ppus need weaknesses.
Why dont you ty being a pe, spy, tank or apu for once instead of hybred o ppu and see what ts like to fight against one instead of always being one so you can see how lame it is when a ppu that an army is shooting just wont die.
dont tell me howto be a ppu k thx i think ive had more experience than you
I agrea with verttero's post (for the most part)
Deshielding takes to long for apus, maybe if it was cast in half the time then I would agrea with making more potent heals cancle out lower tl ones.
Shadow Dancer
12-10-03, 20:51
I totally agree with Vet.
StoneRayne
13-10-03, 07:10
Lol. Perfect way to go from wrong to wronger.
So you take one set of people that play like newbs (aka, para spam) then you get the 2nd set of people that exploit game's mechanics (newb buff)
... and then you wonder, what the fuck happened to skill in this game?
wow this threads been edited more times than debby does dallas on public television
TL3 Healing... it's lame in it's own ways, by very tactful in another sense. thing is, ppus say it's an exploit or something stupid, while people using it say it's a good actic to use. in reality it's not a exploit, it's just good thinking/good playing. I seriously don't know why people constantly bitch about it...
mm i hate TL3 healing but there are some that dont deserve the mana it takes to cast anti on......... Im really surprised ppl take notice of stuff like this from .... ok wont say.
newayz I have sum Pics too that might explain this ..... anyone has a place i can host em?
ONOZ!!!! MY PPU CAN BE KILLED!!!! HE IS TOO WEAK!!! H4X!!!! XPLO1T!!!! MUST BE STOPPED!!!!
On a more serious note, another goodmethod of killing PPUs is to have your PPU constantly damage buff them. They can't take it off fast enough and often cant buff themselves fast enough now because they're trying to take off the damage buffs. Now your fighters (tanks, spies, apus and PEs) can have some fun riddling the poor PPU with holes.
There's no way this stuff is an exploit. PPUs get to live long enough as it is.
Athon Solo
CryptoChronic
17-10-03, 14:41
Originally posted by ZigZag
mm i hate TL3 healing but there are some that dont deserve the mana it takes to cast anti on......... Im really surprised ppl take notice of stuff like this from .... ok wont say.
newayz I have sum Pics too that might explain this ..... anyone has a place i can host em?
www.artuproar.com
edit: sorry didnt realise i bumped this from 3 days ago (ive havent been on comp since so oops)
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