View Full Version : Overriding spells
as a PPU, i would like the opportunity to override noob spells that people put on me, a certain clan on pluto has adopted this tactic:
first antibuff, then they have spies and PEs use their deflector, shelter and heal on me, so im fucked either way, i wont name any names, just that it starts with a S and ends with R (there might be an X in between)
i mean, isnt antibuff enough? it cant be too hard to implement this.
good idea, i say we do this and make PPU's COMPLETELY unkillable. some people have a nerve trying to stop you going round rezzing all your teammates.
Phiberdelic
10-10-03, 17:37
hahahaha....
this is not considered an exploit but rather a tactic
and the only tactic that anyone had against a PPU who paraspams.
BTW...no im not S*R, just a hater of the damn paraspam'o'death that PPU's have. Don't be surprised if this thread is closed as you have implied a clan in wrongdoing, which IMO is a great tactic, I just wish I could successfull execute a shelter/heal/heal sanctum combo ...
yeah sucks a lot dont it :| the way i usually deal with that kinda thing is to have heal sanc on all the time so even if they TL 3 heal u, u can run around like a headless chicken and still have some kind of heal working on ya.
And the anti buff thing, as a ppu u should easily be able to out cast a crappy spy def, just experiment with anti buff timings and as long as u dont miscast u should be fine :) --oh yeah and spam holy para on em so they are glued to the ground and cant hit ya with there crappy heals :)
using tl 3 heal isnt the problem here, its that first they antibuff, then the pe and spies or whatever are ready with their noob buffs. a tl 3 heal i can survive, but this is completely impossible to survive. it would be nice to actually stand a chance....
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 17:43
It's an exploit, just the same as when people used to cast PSI Shield on monks.
Period.
It should be fixed along with Parashock and possibly the new sanctums (parashock removed, considering removal of holy cath sanct, and then extending the range of the other sanctums slightly).
Fixed.
People use the "ITS A PPU! OMG OMG OMG" Excuse, which is weak.
It's an exploit. (A use of the system for which the system was not originally intended).
what lvl is your ppu? surely u can be ready to out cast the pe's and spy's? Like i said watch for the anti buff and cast your shelter in time for when his anti buff removes your shelter.
ghandisfury
10-10-03, 17:43
Coming from a capped PPU, I say that noob spells are a great tactic, and they need to stay in the game. I should not have a chance to override a noob spell....PPUs are imbalanced as they are. Without parashock, noob buffing isn't that big of a deal.
Give PPUs the ability to over-ride lower spells.... cool. That is as long as you take out parashock.
Also QD its not an exploit, working along the same lines as rez-killing. You are allowed to cast low level buffs, you are allowed to cast them on other people. Thus it is a valid tactic. KK could change it if they wanted but they haven't thus far. It may be a really dirty tactic, but so is paraspamming. If a PPU paraspams then he deserves to be TL3'd.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 17:47
Originally posted by DIS
what lvl is your ppu? surely u can be ready to out cast the pe's and spy's? Like i said watch for the anti buff and cast your shelter in time for when his anti buff removes your shelter.
Amature.
If the PPU Casts Shelter,
The PE Casts Deflector.
If the PPU Casts Heal,
the PE Casts Shelter.
If the PPU Casts deflector,
the PE Casts Shelter.
There's no way out of it, add damage boost to that and you have one dead PPU, Period, with nothing the PPU can do about it.
People say it's not fair that PPUs have defence that is unkillable, THAT is the idiocy, simply because of the way PPUs are meant to be, Paraspam needs to go, however other than that PPUs do not deserve that kinda bullshit.
Which is giving them a worse treatment then hybrids had.
edit;
For those that still don't understand... TL 3 Heal doesn't even make my PPU Flinch anymore.
Early last week we had a large fight with 2 APUs/2 PPUs some PEs and A couple tanks all focusing on myself at one point (simply because I was the only one in the zone, I had to run through them to get anywhere), I survived about 10 HABs being paraspamed the whole way through a wasteland zone, made it all the way through OZ Station, all the way to Jeriko gates, because I timed my buffs correctly.
However, if they had had a PE with the skill and configuration of MY PE I would have been dead to even half their numbers, considering PPUs are supposed to have Godly Defence, I object to being killable by 2 people no matter what I do.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Amature.
If the PPU Casts Shelter,
The PE Casts Deflector.
If the PPU Casts Heal,
the PE Casts Shelter.
If the PPU Casts deflector,
the PE Casts Shelter.
There's no way out of it, add damage boost to that and you have one dead PPU, Period, with nothing the PPU can do about it.
People say it's not fair that PPUs have defence that is unkillable, THAT is the idiocy, simply because of the way PPUs are meant to be, Paraspam needs to go, however other than that PPUs do not deserve that kinda bullshit.
Which is giving them a worse treatment then hybrids had.
yes, this is my point. im lvl 62 btw DIS
If people cant win, they cheat, its as simple as that. If they cant take down a PPU using fair means, they cheat.
Anti Buff on its own = shelter/def down, in that time, the APU could have said "ok, castin antibuff" PE and Spy could be there ready to cast Shelt/Def/heal, the PPU is then buffless.
As a PE and a PPU on Pluto (yay ph34r t3h mule), i get to see it from both ways, my PE got attacked by a PPU with holy para, n coz i had no armour n my con is low :( he did a little damage to me, still, i managed to survive, the PPU would have died cept I took a wrong turn, blergh.
It takes no skill to cheat, takes a lot of patience to kill a monk, so yes, my ub3r 3 slot holy heal/shelter/deflector's should override any newb's buffs.
And parashock is only a problem for those who cant think "well, how do I get out of this O_o" hehehe.
now now furion.... your clan do it aswell :rolleyes:
but tbh it should be like this, with primaries only but not with shelters or heals...:p
Shadow Dancer
10-10-03, 17:51
I think it should be fixed when the whole damn PPU class is fixed.
I'm not exactly crying a river that this is happening to them, just like I didn't cry a river when it happened to hybrid.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 17:51
Nah Lexxy...parashock does need to begone from PvP :p
It's useful in PvM though... (bat caves...etc)
Lexxuk, EVERYONE except PPUs (funny that) thinks that Paraspam is a problem.
"Well how can I get out of this".... hmmm well if you are a tank or APU and the PPU has a buddy with him then you are fucked. He paraspams you and the buddy kills you. Drugs won't help you because he can just spam you again as soon as you start moving again. If you are a PE or SPY then you have more of a chance because of stealth, but 10 seconds isn't very much when they can see you (because of the paraspam graphics) and when you can't move fast. Thus you will probably be killed in any case, and for a spy a PPU would just damage boost whilst his buddy kicks the shit out of you. He might even be dead before his stealth hits in.
So... how do I get out of this. Dunno.
i think paraspam is a problem, i hate getting parashocked, and i would gladly sacrifice para if they let me override the noob buffs...
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:05
Originally posted by Furion
i think paraspam is a problem, i hate getting parashocked, and i would gladly sacrifice para if they let me override the noob buffs... Same
How is hitting a PPU with a low shelter an expliot?
There are some PPU's that are unkillable and to anti-buff and low TL shelter is the only way to kill them. A well set up PPU will have near tank resists and have little over 400 hp. with a heal on they can take alot of punishment without there shelter leaveing them ample time to resheild and continue on as before.
can you plz tell me the point of being ppu if we drop like unbuffed spies? huh? and how the fuck am i gonna protect me team if im dead?
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:37
Furion ~ That's the point.
It's human nature to want to kill something if it can be seen.
"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh target....shoot target.......target go boom.....yeay......"
"ohhhhhhhhhhhh........ target.....shoot target...........no boom? .....................WAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
o_O
Seriously though, PPUs will forever be held as unbalanced by amatures until they drop like a spy. :rolleyes:
Syntax-Error
10-10-03, 18:37
O right sod it
KK give them what they want , give PPU acess to the
/set god_mode 1
thats what they want it seems.
yes i use TL3 spells u dont like it. play a diffrent class.
Originally posted by Furion
can you plz tell me the point of being ppu if we drop like unbuffed spies? huh? and how the fuck am i gonna protect me team if im dead?
you completely negated your argument when you said "whats the point of being a ppu when we drop like unbuffed spies" when evidently that isnt the case. i would also venture that you made yourself look a touch foolish by intimating that fact as well.
when your team is deead (opwar) a ppu should NOT be able to run about unkillable rezzing his entire team back. when your entire team is dead LEAVE and you wont get tl3 healed etc. fairly simple concept to grasp i would have thought.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:39
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
yes i use TL3 spells u dont like it. play a diffrent class.
Same can be said about parashock.
Can you grow up please? when you started coming on this forum you were actually a pretty decent poster.
Now you're just a troll, you haven't actually given VALID and HELPFUL input to any discussion for a while.
Originally posted by Furion
can you plz tell me the point of being ppu if we drop like unbuffed spies? huh? and how the fuck am i gonna protect me team if im dead?
Run away when u see that unbuff ball and be sure not to be in range of a lowtl shelter caster so stay away from the enemy PPU.
It may be lame but it is not an expliot.
Ok thinking about it maybe add a selfremove shelilds with fair speed. This would allow some time to nail a PPu with the low shelter but allow them to drop and resheild with there holy line
CryptoChronic
10-10-03, 18:41
http://www.artuproar.com/uploads/skins/previews/n00b1.jpg
http://www.artuproar.com/uploads/skins/previews/n00b2.jpg
Syntax-Error
10-10-03, 18:42
Maybe thats down to the community.
and iam sorry but PPU are already over powered and now your calling to boost them even more..
were already monkocron. and hell i dont like it bcos it goes against the storyline.
and frankly. it seems people are doing JUST what you said. they dont like paraspam so they all start monks.
Hmm.. need i say more?
Originally posted by icarium
you completely negated your argument when you said "whats the point of being a ppu when we drop like unbuffed spies" when evidently that isnt the case. i would also venture that you made yourself look a touch foolish by intimating that fact as well.
can you tell me the point of sacrificing any kind of offense for extreme defense, if i cant even have that?
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:45
@ Kimmy.
It's an exploit.
If it was not an exploit, PSI Shield would still be able to be used on other people.
PERIOD.
I hate newbies that weren't around to see the whole development of the game ~ or people that just conveniently forget when it suits them.
@ Syntax ~ I want balance as well, hence this thread, hense the compromise of removal of Parashock (Parashock to a PPU is a Liberator to a PE, it's the PPUs "I'm here haha!" weapon, it's like Tanks CS), it's NOT like the PPUs are not willing to compromise or strike a deal, it's just that everyone else is being cocks about it.
Other balance issues also need to be addressed, I have a small list and I know Shadow Dancer has one too.
Originally posted by Furion
can you tell me the point of sacrificing any kind of offense for extreme defense, if i cant even have that?
you are asking for PPUS to be indestructable. this would fuck up the game even more than it already is
incidently i have a ppu
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
KK give them what they want , give PPU acess to the
/set god_mode 1
thats what they want it seems.
yes i use TL3 spells u dont like it. play a diffrent class.
we dont have godmode, we are hard to kill, TL 3 heal makes us less hard to kill, but we can survive, noob buffs make us extremely easy to kill with no chance of survival, whats the point?
Syntax-Error
10-10-03, 18:46
I wouldnt mind it that way, but i WILL NOT sit by and let them remove the TL3 heal TACTIC untill they REMOVE para spam
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
@ Kimmy.
It's an exploit.
If it was not an exploit, PSI Shield would still be able to be used on other people.
PERIOD.
What rule says who can or cannot buff?
Originally posted by Furion
we dont have godmode, we are hard to kill, TL 3 heal makes us less hard to kill, but we can survive, noob buffs make us extremely easy to kill, whats the point?
the point is a ppu should not be able to outheal 4 capped characters attacking them with rares with EASE allowing them to rez the team the aforementioned characters have just layed the smackdown on :).
and before someone brings it up (eric?) ANTIBUFF is a APU spell. no apu = no kill ppu = wrong.
i am not saying that PPUs should be able to be soloed but when you have several characters attacking them they should not be able to brush it off and still have time to rez their dead clan, only stopping for tea and perhaps a small scone.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:50
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
I wouldnt mind it that way, but i WILL NOT sit by and let them remove the TL3 heal TACTIC untill they REMOVE para spam
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
It's an exploit.
If it was not an exploit, PSI Shield would still be able to be used on other people.
PERIOD.
I hate newbies that weren't around to see the whole development of the game ~ or people that just conveniently forget when it suits them.
Exploit.
Same as PSI Shield, which was prevented from foreign cast (has been made SELF CAST ONLY) because it was being cast on PPUs and Hybrids to drain their mana pool during combat and not allowing their class to function properly.
It's a EXACTLY THE SAME as Parashock, because the Both cause the characters to function 50x less effectively than they should.
The deal is Paraspam for override.
As the Poll askes.
edit;
Next time you're in that situation icarium, use your brain.
Damage Boost the enemy PPU if they do manage to get their dead friend standing before they have to move (not too unlikely if they have holy rezz capped and holy heal sanct and cast holy heal before they started), then shoot their friend, he will be unbuffed on low hp and ready for the killing almost instantly.
All you need to do is keep killing his friends and he'll give.
Syntax-Error
10-10-03, 18:51
i fully agree i hate that fact that no matter the size of your team. if you have no PPU or APU you might aswell go home if they have a PPU.
@QuantumDelta - what poll o-0
well easy lets higher TL spells be able to override low TL spells
thats way even if they cast n00b spells then u can always override it easy
QD, if they do the same to TL3ing as they did to Psi Shield then I will agree with you that it was an exploit. BUT atm its not an exploit. As I said before going along the rez-kill vein.
When there is an official announcement that it is an exploit then it is.
Originally posted by solling
well easy lets higher TL spells be able to override low TL spells
thats way even if they cast n00b spells then u can always override it easy
Yes thats what we are arguing about, some people think that it will make PPUs too hard to kill. Especially in the absence of a APU to anti-buff them.
Syntax-Error
10-10-03, 18:57
Originally posted by solling
well easy lets higher TL spells be able to override low TL spells
thats way even if they cast n00b spells then u can always override it easy
hence making PPU unkillable
and PPU bring this on themselves when they run into a group of 6 enemys and go "hahahahahah you cant kill me sex sex sex sex sex sex"
or they stand there and luagh and say "your such a bunch of newbies"
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
edit;
Next time you're in that situation icarium, use your brain.
Damage Boost the enemy PPU if they do manage to get their dead friend standing before they have to move (not too unlikely if they have holy rezz capped and holy heal sanct and cast holy heal before they started), then shoot their friend, he will be unbuffed on low hp and ready for the killing almost instantly.
All you need to do is keep killing his friends and he'll give.
hmm yes, the problem is i can kill his teammates as they are rezzed however this means the ppu has now cast holy heal and got back all his health in the blink of an eye, so i now do some damage while he rezzes someone again, i kill the rezee the ppu has healed, he rezzes someone i kill them....you can see where this is going right?
if all your team is dead ppus should leave, coz tbh its just annoying, fair enough regroup rebuff come back with some mates and have another go but to run about unkillable is just fucking annoying, not only that it gets exceedingly boring very quickly, it becomes a war of patience and bears no resemblance to any skill whatsoever.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 18:59
This poll (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78427)
Icarium ~ It's annoying, I know, I said some where else there was a small list of things that need to be addressed.
Rezzing underfire is one of them :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
This poll (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78427)
Icarium ~ It's annoying, I know, I said some where else there was a small list of things that need to be addressed.
Rezzing underfire is one of them :p
omfg i agree on something with qd :p
Originally posted by Judge
Lexxuk, EVERYONE except PPUs (funny that) thinks that Paraspam is a problem.
"Well how can I get out of this".... hmmm well if you are a tank or APU and the PPU has a buddy with him then you are fucked. He paraspams you and the buddy kills you. Drugs won't help you because he can just spam you again as soon as you start moving again. If you are a PE or SPY then you have more of a chance because of stealth, but 10 seconds isn't very much when they can see you (because of the paraspam graphics) and when you can't move fast. Thus you will probably be killed in any case, and for a spy a PPU would just damage boost whilst his buddy kicks the shit out of you. He might even be dead before his stealth hits in.
So... how do I get out of this. Dunno.
/e sex sex sex - was talking about my PE, it was my PE that got attacked wiv a holy para, thing is though, PPU's who get high enuff PPU to stick u to the floor wiv a capped HP have low mana, so they cant keep it going forever, cause they run out of mana, then they gotta keep takin boosters, n hope to have enuff mana to heal etc..
Me, I was there healin a newb, PPU attacks, I'l like "ok" shelter the newb (i'm nice) PPU is still spamming, so I'm like "ohh... heal" still going "yawn" stealth :D heal up/stealth/shoot, in the end, i call in pete teh psi (my hero) and then, PPU monk almost ends up dead ppu monk.
Thats why "i" have no problem with HP, because I've gone tech, so i can use stealth, the people who do have a problem, are APU's and Tanks, as neither can stealth, and the "ub3r" group, who die to a PPU O_o go figure :D :lol: :lol:
BlackPrince
10-10-03, 20:00
Give non-monks effective countermeasures beyond Tl3 Healing and people will use them. ATM it's very difficult to use under combat, and generally the only time I've seen it used is when the PPU is running around after the battle making an ass of himself and rezzing his fallen comrades for the umpteenth time.
Hell, make sniper and droner spies more useful. Give us a weapon mod/drone that can pierce psi shields. That'd work fine for me. Not negate them totally mind you, but have them function similar to an AP round.
Original monk
10-10-03, 20:06
Tl 3 heal is cool with me, they did it alot to me :P Never succeeded to kill me with it tough, or i ran away and zoned like a chicken fearing for my life or they yust didnt had the power to kill me. Maybe cause my holy healsanctum was on or sheltersanctum or sumthing, i even think its funny when there trying to tl3 heal me actually, you see em preparing in adavance, ya yust notice it :D
Only way they can kill me is if they sneak up behind me and hit me with some rarespell witouth me being buffed. A antishelter is obvious, you see a APU casting a yellow ressurection :wtf: and ya yust zone, in PP1 i prefer the PP3 sewer, then ya zone back quickly, the spell didnt work for them, their out of manna and ya can start freezing or damageboosting or hittin em with youre assault rifle until they run hehe.
TL3 techniques doesnt look dangerous ... its them snipingpowers of the APUmonks that freaks me out, they can sneak in or hit ya from miles away witouth you even knowing what is happening. Creepy stuff ... very painfull when you aint expecting it.
well good luck with youre discussion im off playing game
:)
the TL 3 heal is fine, valid tactic id say, it only lasts for 10 secs so i have a chance at surviving. but the newb shields people put on me lasts for 2 minutes, so i got no chance whatsoever at surviving.... unless im standing in a GR room that is
i agree with QD.. its an exploit .
in my eyes an exploit is ABUSING GAME MECHANICS ..
the tl 3 heal isnt meant to do that .. period
same with the psi shield
Originally posted by icarium
good idea, i say we do this and make PPU's COMPLETELY unkillable. some people have a nerve trying to stop you going round rezzing all your teammates.
dude.. we kill ppus everyday.. there was NO ppu on this server that we couldnt kill in an op war..same with others...
if you cant kill em get some skill instead of using cheap tricks / abusing game mechanics...:rolleyes:
i start to get really pissed about this.... KK should fix it finally .. like they did with the psi shield b4
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i agree with QD.. its an exploit .
in my eyes an exploit is ABUSING GAME MECHANICS ..
the tl 3 heal isnt meant to do that .. period
same with the psi shield
dude.. we kill ppus everyday.. there was NO ppu on this server that we couldnt kill in an op war..same with others...
if you cant kill em get some skill instead of using cheap tricks / abusing game mechanics...:rolleyes:
i start to get really pissed about this.... KK should fix it finally .. like they did with the psi shield b4
.cy
thats my point, i am extremely good at games like ut q3 etc so i know how to aim etc. yet no matter how skilled i am i have no chance of soloing a ppu. and thats fine it makes sense, but when you have me, someone who has represented his country playing ut (not me my m8) and a capped tank all hitting a ppu with rare weapons and not able to kill him then i think you have problems
anyway am past caring am reading me book then gonna play a bit of anarchy online :p
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 21:06
Originally posted by icarium
thats my point, i am extremely good at games like ut q3 etc so i know how to aim etc. yet no matter how skilled i am i have no chance of soloing a ppu. and thats fine it makes sense, but when you have me, someone who has represented his country playing ut (not me my m8) and a capped tank all hitting a ppu with rare weapons and not able to kill him then i think you have problems
Oh....Soudah....?
http://www.smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/twix.JPG
Bristol Regional heats.
Twix Games Player of The Year Competition.
http://www.smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/Medalion.JPG Silver Medalion for being world #2 Games Player.
http://www.smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/scriptquantumdelta/Medalion2.JPG
Second shot.
I am also just as good as your "friend" at other games, though I have obviously no true expertise in UT(UT2K3) because I don't play them much. (I was pretty good with rocket launchers and the grenadey thing that sprays bullets everywhere or launchs like a real grenade launcher...).
Point is, this game is not an FPS.
It's an RPG.
If there is more than one of you the PPU cannot really hope to kill you both because they have to actually worry about your attacks, if there's more than that, there's no hope.
The PPU Cannot kill an intelligent opponent (props if you're not), therefore should expect to have the defence to counter.
This is more or less the whole point of a PPU, not being able to kill while having massive defence to counter that point.
It is not just there to be another target for your high flying friend who's good at FPS ~ Because this ain't an FPS.
lol n64, hardly a large market for competition was it ;)
anyway like i said, past caring tbh
also having that plaque framed and still handy? touch on the bizarre side?
Edit, bristol? lol! cool surname tho ;)
2nd edit: incidently you arent as good as evs at UT2k3, trust me on this lol
QuantumDelta
11-10-03, 00:22
Nah, got all the images on the old HDD.
Pretty much every personal/person pic I've ever had is still there, just for keepsakes...
Was simple to find twix.jpg :p
The Regional I fought N64 Golden Eye License to kill Pistols bleh.
The final was across every major console at the time with what was their representative games.
PC Game was FreeSpace....which is how I got into the game :)
The Plaque was presented like that...
Me, First place kid (john ..somethin beginnin with c) and third place kid (david issaacs), all had to fight other internationals in London in Virgin megastores...TV cams and stuff :p
Hard to forget really.. it's just one of my ways of saying I could easily be regarded as a Qualified authority on games :p
edit;
As for UT2K3 ...nope I'm not that great at it but I've only completed single player then I gave it back to my friend :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
It's an exploit. (A use of the system for which the system was not originally intended).
Then you should make it so PPUs can't heal other people.
Heal was meant to use to heal other people. Your getting healed, not on your Holy one.
It's not an exploit. It's tactics.
// Wannabe
QuantumDelta
11-10-03, 00:30
Well in your case I would simply make the suggestion that you're not exploiting it you simply don't have enough skill to operate any other way.
Prove me wrong and I'd take my words back, but something tells me I wont ever need to with the kind of attitude you posted your last comments on the subject with.
You have no morals, no remorse.
I was talking to the FF uber PvPer over there o_O
Unless you have a guilty conscience icarium :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Well in your case I would simply make the suggestion that you're not exploiting it you simply don't have enough skill to operate any other way.
Prove me wrong and I'd take my words back, but something tells me I wont ever need to with the kind of attitude you posted your last comments on the subject with.
You have no morals, no remorse.
lies, i helped an old woman across the street yesterday
I would like the ability to override spells, however it should be based on the skill level of the orignal caster.
This would still allow TL3 in combat but can be blocked. Prehaps have it that the TL3 timer still remains when it is overloaded on top of the spell.
Or make resist work properly, so resist matches TL of spells.
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