Spy question and Weaponlore

[NeoChick]

I am a bit puzzled about spy and sniper rifle. Basically, the bread and butter of a spy is construct/research etc. However, to ever get anywhere with that you need every little point for it.

So that leaves really nothing for Weaponlore and you really need that for snipe rifle and other rifles too, don't you?

Or you sacrifice your trade and be a sniper, but then, you could rather be a pe and be mor effective.

Either way, as a spy you will either be a very good constr/researcher, or a medium good tradesperson and medium good rifle person which is not very exciting

Is that how it is supposed to be?

[StryfeX]

Get used to it. :( It's been that way ever since KK introduced the major fucking specialization patch. (166 was it?) I personally hate it since I'd like to be able to do things other than shoot or tradeskill as a spy.

As a spy, you can generally do one other thing in INT fairly well. Most spies choose either hacking or implanting or a combination of both.

--Stryfe

[Drexel]

How many PE's with a capped First Love have you got ?

PE with capped Pain Easer can do 40800 points of damage per minute.

Spy with capped First Love can do 69500 points of damage per minute.

So who's teh gimp ?

It is a shame trade skills eat into combat points.

All my characters are pure combat, coz i just cant bring myself to gimp for that sake of a trade.

[hose187]

Actually, it's not that bad anymore.

If you just want to be a clan constructor, you have plenty of points. OP, Cst boost 3, SS, Cst CPU 3 gives +95 cst. You only need 130-140 with high Dex/Int.

If you want to pimp out in Plaza, pop in a Cst CPU 2 + 3, machina glove, and SS. That's +50. You can get 40 or 50 Wep from combat imps, so you'll still get good aim on the rare rifles. Spies get enough Int points to get two skills to 120. So that's 160-170 in Cst and Wep.

Implant and hack need less points, so no problems there.

Researchers kind of get the shaft. They need much higher skill, but don't have CPU's to help get there. But still, you have advanced nerves 3, SS, and machina.

Or, just get a kami chip. 30 Wep from that bad boy. Saves alot of points. Only lasting 2 shots instead of the normal 3 isn't such a big deal.

[KidWithStick]

you can just do what i did...make a pure PvP spy...screw tradeskilling.

[kurai]

You can be a good tradeskiller, or a good PvPer.

You can't be both.

As far as the Spy vs PE part ... PE gets the defence, Spy gets the offence.

[enablerbr]

Originally posted by StryfeX
Get used to it. :( It's been that way ever since KK introduced the major fucking specialization patch. (166 was it?)
--Stryfe

try PATCH 163. i have that number fixed in my mind. why beacuse i stopped having fun. stopped hunting mobs that had rares. stopped using my reeza gaze. spent all my time from then on doing very hard faction research missions. need i go any further with my whoas.

[hose187]

Kurai, how much Wep you have after imps?

Think about it.

Cst= 100 natural
SS, Cst 3, Cst 2, Cst 1, Machina, self buff= 160 total

Wep= 140 natural
SF, Distance 3, Rifle eye 3, Ballistic 3=185 total.
Still room for one more brain imp if you don't use a Move-on.

Leaves 3 points for PSU or barter.

That's enough to cap aim on First Love. The effect of Wep on dam% is negligible, and the difference between 160% damage and 178% damage is very little to a buffed target. Granted, there will be situatons where that extra 15% would have meant life instead of death, but there's still so much randomness to PvP (how many shots per burst hit, whether you lag at a very inconvenient time, if you sneeze while trying to aim).

[Sovellis]

U cldnt be more stupid using a ballistic 3 as a spy in my opinion. If you wanna do any sort of combat even as a sniper, u need all the str u can get, cos if someone jumps u while scoped, then u may as well bend down and take the beating. Spies damage is good, but what no realises is spies rarly live long enough to be able to deal that damage. PE is much better on the whole as they actually have the capability of capping of capping PE (still and awesome wepon , close and distance) and it get fucking awesome defence from armor and resists from con. Tbh id gladly drop 10 psi points to have more con or str.

[Sovellis]

oh and imo i wldnt bother trying to max FL lads, better off capping ROG and keeping ur agl high, u gonna want to run away when ur jumped by some CA fool ectrar etcrar

[cobrajay157]

Personally as my spy i cst and im good, and i have pistols to won ppl with my lib or judge ^_^. And resonally since ive changed my imp set up lvl more i have lommed out wl, cuz i hadtoo much, and putting some in hacking. If it doesnt work out tho i am going to lom that and put it in cst.

[Shadow Dancer]

How much damage does a capped Disruptor do in one minute?

[hose187]

Sovellis, then just play a PE. If you're not going to use SH, FL, or disruptor, why be a spy except for the tradeskill mulage?

[hose187]

You mean by what Rustot's site says, or actual PvP damage?

Guess you don't mean PvP damage. You can't really shoot somebody for a minute straight, now can you?

LOL> Get a calculator, then.

[Warlogis]

Dont forget that PE have 30 ammo clip and can fire 10 bursts w/o reload. FL need to reload after every 4th burst :(
Dis can fire 8 bursts w/o reload ... think about it ;)
Capped FL do much more damage compaired with Dis in PvP but total damage output almost equal because of crap magazine capacity of FL :mad:

[deac]

Originally posted by Drexel
How many PE's with a capped First Love have you got ?

PE with capped Pain Easer can do 40800 points of damage per minute.

Spy with capped First Love can do 69500 points of damage per minute.

So who's teh gimp ?



your the gimp since you die from 3 paineaser bursts and my pe sure as hell can take more than 3 firstlove bursts :P

[MjukisDjur]

Originally posted by Drexel
How many PE's with a capped First Love have you got ?

PE with capped Pain Easer can do 40800 points of damage per minute.

Spy with capped First Love can do 69500 points of damage per minute.

So who's teh gimp ?

It is a shame trade skills eat into combat points.

All my characters are pure combat, coz i just cant bring myself to gimp for that sake of a trade.

This is some interesting shit. Where did you dig up those numbers?

[StryfeX]

Everyone knows that plasma rifles generally suck for PvP. Having to reload after only 4 bursts is about the most suck-ass thing I can think of. And the damage of the First Love isn't anything special, either. A well set up tank (me) can take about 30-50 total damage PER BURST of the gun *to the head*. For a gun that's TL 114, it's a fucking joke. You're better off using the SH to get one fairly damaging shot off, then switching to RoG or PE.

--Stryfe

[Drexel]

Capped disruptor does 57000 damage per min.

easy to work out.

Take the weapons Max rate of fire.

Disruptor is 222 rounds, now multiply it by the amount of damage done per round. Thats 257 damage (no ammo mod).

so

222 x 257 = 57054 damage per minute.

just so ya know

Lib =66600 pm
CS = 73548 pm
PE = 40800 pm
First Love = 59462 pm
holy lightning = between 70875 & 245385 (allowing for variable damage) yes, up to 245385 per minute.

This method does not allow for burst bonus etc, however it is still a very effective mesure of output. (best for PvM) :D

{everyone logs in there old APU}

[hose187]

Also remember that those numbers are assuming that all the shots fired in that minute hit. In practice, FL comes up a little short compared to disruptor because so many blobs miss.

[VVerevvolf]

I think it's a pitty that the ROG is much better in close fights than the First Love, that suxx ass :(

[WithSlitWrists]

drexel you are forgetting the reload time in your calculations though.

[Rizzy]

I prefer disruptor over first love on my kami spy, because of its max range you can run fullspeed whilst aiming at something in medium range and have an almost fully closed reticle. First love is all over the place when you move around.

[Drexel]

Hi wrists, where ya been ?

Yes , im not sure if the figures use reload time or not, i suspect they dont which changes things again.

A high damge single shot weapon reloads less (RoG) so may be able to outdamage something that stops alot to reload.

But i do still find these figure very helpful and mostly accurate.

I wonder if anyone will do their PHd on translating the mathmatics of this game ? Now theres a challange. :confused: