View Full Version : How do u feel SL BS helps the game
How do people feel the absolute SL and safe zone hanicap to PvP aid this game. Does everyone here really enjoy double protection condom saftey in all the hard areas of the game Caos caves,MC5 and so on. I mean rival clans cant fight for it for very long cause they will go ass red. Some clan is green to you yet allied to ur enemys you kill someone in pepper and a allied monk comes and rez's him yet what can you do not much kill him once -8 Sl 2 times -14 time now its time to leave cause ur day is over same goes for fighting a neutral clan.
How how bout the LE im sick of seeing city admins poping in an LE to go lvl in TG territory putting it in when u wanna go somewhere were u will get attacked and then taking it out when u wanna fight or op war with ur clan in my opinion is as much an expliot as players using bugs to kill LE user.
I just wanna get the communitys thoughts and maybe some dev thoughts on how they feel this helps neocron out?
Edit - Please feel free to explain how you feel this hinders the game
Whiety Bulger
06-10-03, 19:25
lol Kimmy i agree but lost of people are like I AM CA AND I ENJOY LEVEL NEAR CAYNON ENTRANCE AND IF U DONT WANT ME THERE THEN U ARE ANTI RP. I say STFU we are arch fucking enimies we are supposed to fight each other. Then they naturally respond OMG KOS KOS TG NEW DAWN WHORE!!!!!! I also h8 when they put LE and rape the caynon vendores and fight the retarded guards.
yah that le crap is bs. after a week of killing around 100 peeps at mb on my pe i went bak and everyone and their damn grandma had le in i was so pissed. becuase i had to walk freaken across the map just to get short of killing someone.
then when a le nub spots u thay follow u all over. saying shit.
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
.... I also h8 when they put LE and rape the caynon vendores and fight the retarded guards.
reminds me of early retail with TG players at MB. though without LEs in.
Whiety Bulger
06-10-03, 19:30
Originally posted by enablerbr
reminds me of early retail with TG players at MB. though without LEs in.
Ya we didnt have LE in so you could kill us. Alota people especially a certain some one with a matrix name does it with LE. So we have to whatch is dumb ass rape everything and we cant do anything about it. So we usally resort to zone barreling his ass.
once LE is out it's out, no putting it back in
think that might be cool
GambitFlame
06-10-03, 19:31
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
lol Kimmy i agree but lost of people are like I AM CA AND I ENJOY LEVEL NEAR CAYNON ENTRANCE AND IF U DONT WANT ME THERE THEN U ARE ANTI RP. I say STFU we are arch fucking enimies we are supposed to fight each other. Then they naturally respond OMG KOS KOS TG NEW DAWN WHORE!!!!!! I also h8 when they put LE and rape the caynon vendores and fight the retarded guards.
Who said anything about New Dawn ;)
But i do agree with you, i have from time to time gone up there with an LE in as a City faction just too level, it does however kinda mess around with the holders of say Cycrow, i mean wats the point of holding the OP and not protect the zone from your enemies potential but with LE wearers its just not possible for all you know they could be there to spy on the OP and the forces around it for a rival faction and there aint shit you can do about it....unfortunately wat are you gonna do, stop all LE's from GRing to OP's o_O
Guess there is no justice :rolleyes:
well i have my LE in at the moment. yet i wouldn't go TG or cayons with it in. as like you show , just makes an arse of the faction system. when i go hunting in TG territory again it'll be without LE.
Originally posted by greploco
once LE is out it's out, no putting it back in
think that might be cool
You forgot the im a stupid ass mother fucker factor
WARNING......................WARNING........................WARNING..............Rip out ur LE you cant put it in...........2 minutes later on the forum WTF WTF WTF i cant put my LE oh shit I ddn't think when it said once ripped you cant reimplant meant once ripped you cant reimplant.
hehe thats life u get alot of idoits :)
GambitFlame
06-10-03, 19:35
Kimmy
Seriously
Lay off the coffee and chill
What if the LE was to only work in the city, major leveling and anarchy zones and be useless in warzones or MC5 etc...
Well KK should make a option where both Clans can make each other hostile (like the war thingy), and when BOTH clan agree on this no mather where they kill each other they will not lose any SL anywhere. This should be easy to make , at least if KK wants to....As crahn fighted alot neutrals and yes its one of the most annoying things in the game, kill a few run like hell for some missions before getting f00ked.
I think that the LE should be changed to have condition 10/10 or something, and make it non-BPable and non-repairable. Also remove the need for it to make Monk PA.
Then make it so you lose SL for killing ANY NPCs when you have your LE in, or even better make it so you can't shoot them at all (with the exception of epic NPCs)
Originally posted by GambitFlame
Kimmy
Seriously
Lay off the coffee and chill
You think im joking im jokeing you could write a big warning msg in red the second u touched the LE moved cursor over it or even thought the word LE and people would still rip it out then come to forum bitching about not being able to put it back in.
RATTLECAGE
06-10-03, 19:37
u mean pple can actually do that woah !!! >:)
me personnal think that the LE should allow me to pk them. and thay cant pk me. the LE should only prevent them from droppping their belt when thay die. and double impairment at gr's maybe triple :)
Whiety Bulger
06-10-03, 19:39
WTF belt drops are belt drops dont mess
lol don't mention synap. the way it is at the moment. it's so slow going down.
I never anything about city saftey I really dont have a problem with sewers and low-mid lvl saftey like aggy and maybe even up to mutant pool being hunt zone let nibs lvl in some peace. I am referring to high lvls fighting ** and *** mobs and farming in the high end caves there is zero reason to have a saftey net there.
really now i think my idea is good becuase. if ur a nub u dont want to lose ur crap with le in. but i should get the benefit to kill u if i dont hav my le in. and y shouldnt u get more impairment when u die :) i hate that everyone is using le's. i never told anyone to put e in i usally tell themt ot ake it out :)
Cryotchekk
06-10-03, 19:43
the sl bs aint too bad, its the kk, doy, server, balancing, bugs, not listening to us, content, events BS wich really is annoying
i'll agree that if pro-city players want to hunt at say CRP. then they should go in force. have players outside guarding the area to keep it clear of TG. while the others lvl and take turns.
I really dont get why TG should care about people with LE's. Or why people should give a damn abuot the LE chip in the first place.
Its not like LE users are going to PK every one. As for them not "role playing", not every one is into that. Its not like PK'ers = role players anyways, most of them are just a-holes that like killing newbs because some guy killed them when they were 0/2 and now they got some emotional scar and a lost sence of manhood.
Whiety Bulger
06-10-03, 19:44
Then no one would take LE out cuase they could PvP without any chance of losen items while non LE's lose there shit thats a terrible idea
LE, SL and Safezones are neccesarry cause theres simply too many brainless idiots out there.
But the SL system and the LE still needs some more work.
LE should not work in certain zones like a CAs LE doesnt work when hes in enemy controlled terrain (i.e. Cycrow). And XP and sympathy from enemy NPCs should simply be removed. Go kill some players if you need sympathy. o_O
About the SL system, well i dont have any ideas actually how to improve it. :mad:
Originally posted by Mantus
I really dont get why TG should care about people with LE's. Or why people should give a damn abuot the LE chip in the first place.
Its not like LE users are going to PK every one. As for them not "role playing", not every one is into that. Its not like PK'ers = role players anyways, most of them are just a-holes that like killing newbs because some guy killed them when they were 0/2 and now they got some emotional scar and a lost sence of manhood.
well i am sorry to say but in this game rping ='s random pking. really now wut other story lines we follow other then just be allies or enemys. maybe kk should add missions that can take days and such. for everyone with some uber rewards. like rares so instead of taking 1 day to buy parts of cs let it take weeks :)
Whiety Bulger
06-10-03, 19:49
SL was orignally ment as a ranking tool ie u could become copbots if ur where CA bisops if u where charn etc but alas KK droped it
I'll stick to my guns guys
I think a non-reimplantable LE would be cool
they could have enough warning to minimize the bitching
JackScratch
06-10-03, 19:53
Anyone talking about PKing clearly has no interest in RP in the first place. This red=dead crap has got to go. The Faction system is BS, we should all start out neutral and then develope aliances and hostilities as individuals and clans. And as for the Random PKers, aforementioned as red=dead, you should be hunted down and griefed till you can no longer play the game. It is my full intention to do just that. This ranting about LE and hunting grounds being anti RP is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Here is a thought, how bout RPing Dickheads Vs Decent human beings, my only concern is that the Dickheads will have most of the good PvPers. They have trouble working together as a team though, so Im willing to take the risk.
Whiety Bulger
06-10-03, 19:54
They should rename the LE th WARBOT STEALING NUBLET CHIP
Originally posted by greploco
I'll stick to my guns guys
I think a non-reimplantable LE would be cool
they could have enough warning to minimize the bitching
i dont liek that idea becuase if u piss a nub at a lvling gorund like crp he can just camp entrance all day just to greif play. and really no gm really answear if u use help or occ even trades. so next best thing ishelp system. so ill just log for the night till gm gets on next morning to take him out of the cave 0_o ruined my game for the night. main reaosn y i rather beable to kill them.
RATTLECAGE
06-10-03, 19:56
haha i seen gays using creature focus bug.pple with le's casting creature focus at pple without le's and focus does damage to pple without le's so theyre technically exploting. so dont cry when i killya. and bitch on the forums like a faig
why safely tip toe thru life to only arrive safely at death!
Originally posted by JackScratch
Anyone talking about PKing clearly has no interest in RP in the first place. This red=dead crap has got to go. The Faction system is BS, we should all start out neutral and then develope aliances and hostilities as individuals and clans. And as for the Random PKers, aforementioned as red=dead, you should be hunted down and griefed till you can no longer play the game. It is my full intention to do just that. This ranting about LE and hunting grounds being anti RP is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Here is a thought, how bout RPing Dickheads Vs Decent human beings, my only concern is that the Dickheads will have most of the good PvPers. They have trouble working together as a team though, so Im willing to take the risk.
yes then the story line wouldnt even match and then any story line representing it would be totally faulty and making rping even worst fromt he story lines. but i do liek that for factionless peeps
i want actully a story to follow as u lvl like if u want certain items from vendors u should beable to do story missions like u want a DB rare u go to diffrent npc bring them items and doin kills trying to track the db by following rumors and tracking the db. and get random slot db's and really good stats like someone high lvl constructed it. or maybe constructed it but try and gather the parts.
same with tank pa. but after u get the mission complete vendors wills ell it to u. like it goes u head to a store manager ask him u know were i can get some good armor he will mention we got alot of fine gear here sir. u go no i mean real good armor. and he goes it hink i know wut i mean i heard a rumer from the ceres wars story that theirs the old power armor out in the waste land. and u go around to npc doin missions and requests until liek u end up to blackmist and he has a pa armor thats riped apart and shreaded. u take it bak to the vender and he goes wow i beleive i can copy this for u and repair it and sell them to u at a price ofcourse my way of rping.
TheonlyoneIknow
06-10-03, 20:13
This may suprise some, (generally those with lower IQ levels one would assume, be they pre-pubescent or otherwise), but when was NC declared a KILL or BE killed game? And even if KK intended it should be "thought" of as such a game, who are YOU, (substitute YOU with the player killers), or KK for that matter to tell those of us that DON'T player kill that we have to conform to YOUR, (sustitute YOUR with the player killers), wants and desires?
Some of us just like to play. Just PLAY and that means nothing more than fighting mobs for just rewards. Why shouldn't we come to Cycrow or CRP or Nemesis and rape mobs? Who the fuck said they were ANYONE'S?
I for one am glad that the LE and the users thereof piss you off so much that you have to rant and rave. If you want to kill then kill those that want to fight back. Not EVERYONE does. Is that SO amazing?
If NC doesn't gratify you enough, then go play Planet Side, coz my account fees WON'T be making YOUR game play any more pleasurable.
Death to Player Killers.
Long live the carebear (takes tongue out of cheek).
:lol: :lol: :lol:
[Edit: I knew someone would throw the old "the storyline...." blah blah blah into the mix somewhere]
Originally posted by TheonlyoneIknow
This may suprise some, (generally those with lower IQ levels one would assume, be they pre-pubescent or otherwise), but when was NC declared a KILL or BE killed game? And even if KK intended it should be "thought" of as such a game, who are YOU, (substitute YOU with the player killers), or KK for that matter to tell those of us that DON'T player kill that we have to conform to YOUR, (sustitute YOUR with the player killers), wants and desires?
Some of us just like to play. Just PLAY and that means nothing more than fighting mobs for just rewards. Why shouldn't we come to Cycrow or CRP or Nemesis and rape mobs? Who the fuck said they were ANYONE'S?
I for one am glad that the LE and the users thereof piss you off so much that you have to rant and rave. If you want to kill then kill those that want to fight back. Not EVERYONE does. Is that SO amazing?
If NC doesn't gratify you enough, then go play Planet Side, coz my account fees WON'T be making YOUR game play any more pleasurable.
Death to Player Killers.
Long live the carebear (takes tongue out of cheek).
:lol: :lol: :lol:
[Edit: I knew someone would throw the old "the storyline...." blah blah blah into the mix somewhere]
well am sorry that nc is a world of death and ur not enjoying it. and wut ur saying reminds me of a game called diablo. thisis nothin like that. y u think i want mroe story line missions. so i could gather all the rewards and such. even if it takes months. and every story should tell a little more about the game and history :)
Ok some interesting feedback alot of pro remove or change SL LE system.
We got some PKers are mothers fuck you all I like LE so I can hunt then rip it out and do other shit yet. You guys can curse, whine and say I like to expliot my LE, but you have not answered the question which is how does the SL LE system help the game.
Point one - people PK no shit this is a cyber punk, harsh world this game is about a war between TG and CA. TGs should kill city folk and city players should kill TG not have it so everywhere they go they can kill 2 runners then go home and spend an hour fixing SL.
Point Two u like ur LE you like to hunt in enemy turf good for you keep ur LE in and do so and never take it out. Make the game so if you rip it u lose it for good reroll or deal.
As for the epic factor you have chosen to remain neutral in the kiilling and war against factions and the rewards are for faction fighters. If all you do all day long farm and collect items it should be to hard to barter for an epic item.
Or change epics so you dont need to kill maybe have to paths or maybe just make them like the next epic.
Anyway fuck you bitch PK u should go ass red and lose all ur items and make it so you have to spend a week fixing it and I like to LE hunt and piss you all off does not answer the question of how this crap helps the game.
RuriHoshino
06-10-03, 21:00
Originally posted by KimmyG
Ok some interesting feedback.. alot of pro-remove or change SL LE system.
We got some PKers are "mothers fuck you all I like LE so I can hunt then rip it out and do other shit yet". You guys can curse, whine and say I like to expliot my LE, but you have not answered the question which is how does the SL LE system help the game.
Point one - people PK. no shit! this is a cyber punk, harsh world ... this game is about a war between TG and CA. TGs should kill city folk and city players should kill TG... not have it so everywhere they go they can kill 2 runners then go home and spend an hour fixing SL.
Point Two - u like ur LE. you like to hunt in enemy turf. good for you... keep ur LE in and do so and never take it out. Make the game so if you rip it u lose it for good! reroll or deal.
As for the epic factor, you have chosen to remain neutral in the kiilling and war against factions and the rewards are for faction fighters. If all you do all day long is farm and collect items, it should ( or shouldn't? ) be too hard to barter for an epic item.
Or change epics so you dont need to kill... maybe have two paths or maybe just make them like the NEXT epic.
Anyway "fuck you bitch PK, u should go ass red and lose all ur items and make it so you have to spend a week fixing it and I like to LE hunt and piss you all off" does not answer the question of how this crap helps the game.
Is this correct Kimmy? I made a few changes that made it more readable to me. I just want to be sure this is what you're saying?
superfresh
06-10-03, 21:05
The LE's and SL allow young characters to level. I'm no expert but it seems like there aren't many PvP'rs out there bold enough to attack someone their own level without a PPU nursing them, so they primarily go to the lower levelling spots and pk there.
There used to be some amazing pk'rs out there. Would scare the crap out of me when I least expected it, and whoop my tank even though she was pretty high level. Unfortunately most of them have left or have been ejected. Now its all about how many ppl you can throw into your pk mob to assure victory. Bummer.
Yeah, I watched a high level PK taking out lower level characters last night who were just trying to hunt. I'm sure they had a wonderful time, they were unable to hurt their attacker so they just ran for their lives.
I love watching the (usually) illiterate, whining posts of the losers that are wetting their pants in frustration because they can't kill some runner who isn't interesting in PvP.
I'm always amazed how "Neocron is a dark, cyberpunk game" translates into "I'm a loser that wants to kill weaker players and I'm pissed that they have a way to protect themselves".
was using le to not just be there for (example)
BombShell needing benefits of killing... what a statement, bombbabe :rolleyes:
no matter if u got le in or not - u can never just play this game
becasue there's always somebody around the corner to bitch at u
and most of the time it is not even a "red" guy
this is why i don't play red=dead but try to remember ppl...
Originally posted by superfresh
The LE's and SL allow young characters to level.
That is why I said to leave the sewers,cellars, and storage or whatever it is called as hunt zones.
I also never said remove LE I said after you remove it you cant put it back in give them a large fair warning about what would happen once removed.
Congrats on being the 1st person to phrase an opinion with something more than fuck you PKer kim.
JackScratch
06-10-03, 21:28
Alex Mars, you and I are going to get along just fine. Death to the RPKers. Death to Red=Dead. Im all for PvP, but have you assholes ever heard of motives? I'm a citicen of the United States, yet I don't have a desire to attack and kill every liveing Iraqy citicen, yet we are/were at war. Kinda makes you wonder why Every TG should have to want to kill every member of NEXT. it's crap, you want real politics, you want real RPing, let the runners make the politics.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Every TG should have to want to kill every member of NEXT. it's crap, you want real politics, you want real RPing, let the runners make the politics.
If your Twilight Guardian you are a rebel not a fucking Twilight Ghandi remove CA by peaceful protest come on really this game has libs, Cursed souls and holy lightnings not down with CA picket signs what do you really think this game is about Farm mobs all day build shit up all day NOOOOOOO it is about PvP, WAR WAR WAR. Axies vs Allies - Rome vs carthage come on this is about fighting not some peaceful fantasy world of trolls and faries with magic pixey dust
Voodoochicken
06-10-03, 21:43
I really don't play this game enough to read all this thread, but i'll type a random opinion.
If you kill anyone who is in a clan (neutral or foe) in sewer lvl 1 to wastelands (ie anywhere), then there should be no SL hit.
If you kill someone that is in a clan (friendly faction) then you should lose 6 SL points (ie. not go negative immediately unless you have <6 SL).
If you kill someone that is unclanned, then the SL penalty could be slightly higher than above.
(Faction sympathy loses should be slightly decreased to reflect the fact that more killing is likely.)
Once you take out your LE above lvl 20, then that should be it -No more LE for you. If you don't like it, then you can reroll.
Kill, Kill! Kill, Kill!
If all you are interested in is lvling, then you need to keep your LE in until you are ready to PvP.
"Wait!.. I'm trying to lvl!" shouldn't be a defence against being attacked (because that's what the LE is there for).
Of course.. .something needs to be done about PPU monks first, so that pker teams can actually be killed.
Good Idea voodoo that is probably one of the best ideas I have seen so far.
JackScratch
06-10-03, 22:00
Yeah, Voodoo, thats great, hell I think they should just change the name from Neocron to CounterStrike, that would fix everything, Kill kill kill. Why do RPKers bother playing RPG's? Oh yeah, because they suck, they get bored cause they dont have a creative bone in their body, so they decide to bring everyone else down. Why dont you and Kimmy just go make a game where you kill each other over and over as much as you want, I think that would be great.
Edited for violating the forum rules. Flaming of other players will not be tolerated. Last warning.
---Garm
*EDIT* Sorry. Didn't mean to close this thread ;)
The LE was, at one time supposed to be unimplantable over rank 20 but it never worked that way.
IMO the LE is the lesser of two evils. The other being a game with no-one in it because half of them left because it was too like CS and the other half because it wasn't enough like CS.
There are lots of reasons why it is the way it is now. I don't know whether you really don't understand them or refuse to accept that it was the actions of people who think as you do that made it this way. Either way it's a very old argument and one that KK have long since resolved.
JackScratch
06-10-03, 23:08
Not enough like CS? How can it be "not enough like CS"? If it iasn't enough like CS, then find something that is. You know, Like CS. In fact I cant think of a more CS like game than CS. I would dare say that there is not, nore could there ever be, a game more like CS than CS. So I ask, why dont those who want NC to be more like CS just go and (please try to follow me here) play CS? If it would makie it easier, they could call CS, NC.
Whiety Bulger
07-10-03, 00:35
Come on Kimmy you know you want a peaceful world where there is no player killing and players fight mentally retarded mobs all day side by side and there are no factions and conflict. Clan Wars can be won through thoaught full debate and peer mediatiation and hackers can camp at OP's and play catch with the ownership of the OP all day. O there would be only onme type of ammo mod becuase mobs dont have resists so it doesnt matter.
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
Come on Kimmy you know you want a peaceful world where there is no player killing and players fight mentally retarded mobs all day side by side and there are no factions and conflict. Clan Wars can be won through thoaught full debate and peer mediatiation and hackers can camp at OP's and play catch with the ownership of the OP all day. O there would be only onme type of ammo mod becuase mobs dont have resists so it doesnt matter.
And how is the worse than a game where idiots who think they are tough go around killing weaker opponents for fun?
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
Come on Kimmy you know you want a peaceful world where there is no player killing and players fight mentally retarded mobs all day side by side and there are no factions and conflict. Clan Wars can be won through thoaught full debate and peer mediatiation and hackers can camp at OP's and play catch with the ownership of the OP all day. O there would be only onme type of ammo mod becuase mobs dont have resists so it doesnt matter.
TG - "I beseech u give up your dictatorships and embrace a world of democracy!"
CA - "Alas we cannot tolerate your rebellious ways... oh woe is me! WOE I SAY!"
TG - "A world of woe it is... but there must be a way!"
CA - "Yes let us sit down on the green pasture yonder and discuss amiably how we can work together to form a better world union!"
o_O
but ok...
LEs are for lvling n00bs to make it so that they wont be killed by others... fine... i can accept that.
BUT then they should make it so that after a certain lvl it automatically disappears so u cant use it anymore (just like before)... this would solve many problems... and the whole SL shindig... make it so killing neutrals dont have penalties with your faction or SL; only lose FS with the factoin your killing... SL/FS loss should ONLY acompany killing an allie. And no more hunting zones... just anarchy and warzones.
why? at the current "hunting zones" will be people with LE because they are lvling "n00bs" and thus will be protected none the less. At the higher lvl areas, the shouldnt need protection as if they are of low rank they shouldnt even be there in the first place...
The real question is:
Given that there are only a few runners with LEs in, why are there so many deeply pathetic players who are getting their frilly panties in a twist over not being able to kill them? Aren't there enough low level runners for you all to kill?
Originally posted by Alex Mars
And how is the worse than a game where idiots who think they are tough go around killing weaker opponents for fun?
The current SL system does absoultelly nothing to stop me from killing low lvls most are red to me and if its a hunt zone or there not red to me, a mission here a mission there. Ushally can kill at least 3 before going to close to red. So right there that is one of ur arguments gone it really doesn't protect n00b lvlers.
My problem is what it does harm is high lvl clan v clan and groups of higher lvls who wanna fight they have a nice fight then when its time for the encore one side will have to leave due to SL complications.
One time fighting at mb a neutral got involed and got killed he called his clan we battled but then we went low SL it was time to go, both sides were having fun but the fight ended due to SL.
As for the LE making so u cant reimplant it after say around 30 ,what is the harm in that? Right now it is do some clan stuff fight a runner rip LE go to MC5, cycrow or some other enemy territory or go spy on rival clan at OP pop it in this in my opinion is an expliot.
Ah maybe Whiety is right can the guns GMs let it be so we can trade in the CS's for empty data cubes and let us commence Pax Romana instead of takeing an op with wepons let us write peace treaties and exchange pleasentries via data cubes.
Remove the guns
Remove the anger
Remove combat
I love you all
Then in 2 weeks we can see where this game is at population wise.
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
Come on Kimmy you know you want a peaceful world where there is no player killing and players fight mentally retarded mobs all day side by side and there are no factions and conflict. Clan Wars can be won through thoaught full debate and peer mediatiation and hackers can camp at OP's and play catch with the ownership of the OP all day. O there would be only onme type of ammo mod becuase mobs dont have resists so it doesnt matter.
Yes, that's right Whitey - there's no such thing as "a middle ground" or a compromise. The whole world should conform to the extreme desires of a minority. I'm glad no-one whose opinion matters agrees with you on that one.
Originally posted by jernau
Yes, that's right Whitey - there's no such thing as "a middle ground" or a compromise. The whole world should conform to the extreme desires of a minority. I'm glad no-one whose opinion matters agrees with you on that one.
Yeah, you read some of the idiotic posts here and you come away believing that most posters here have heard of the concept of compromise.
I think he is being sarcasitic there highly
Anyway here is my sugestion
Leave the lower lvl areas as hunt zones and maybe increase SL lose for killing there. However once outside the city make it all war zones MB,TH and TG are not place to start if your fresh to the game and I think a nice arry of players who do start there are very advanced and can hanle it. If you cant you can still switch factions latter start in the city lvl up till you defend yourself.
Or make it so RED is RED you can never again return to neocron again. No loss of safe slot no 5 item drop u are nothing more than a red player that will get grilled by copbots if he is seen.
I have still yet to see a good argument to how it helps all I am getting is fuck you PKer. As stated before I can kill n00bs all I want the SL system doesn't do much to protect them. So how does system the wrecks up fight between waring high lvled clanned players aid this game?
From what I have heard, the loss of SL is pretty steep, I've seen posts from people who hit the negative end of the scale without trying too hard and didn't like it.
And the current SL rules do protect newbs, if you can only kill a few before you have to leave and do a mission, then you can't kill endlessly and you cannot dominate an area and drive them away from a hunting ground.
I have seen and fought through the shitstorm that is totally unrestricted PvP/PK in old UO. There we got to see the true character of the PKer. The vast majority of PKers simply want to kill players without stopping and they will kill everyone and everything that moves if they can and they will destroy the game for other players by preventing them from playing the way they want to. This has been demonstrated and proven and is why I find most of the unrestrained PK arguments to be total lying bullshit. Most of the posters here claiming to be reasonable PvPers are lying turds that would kill every weaker character they came upon if they could get away with it, regardless of faction or alliance or any other qualification. If you read various PK guild forums you will see them state this explicitly, and NC PKers are no different.
Somewere out there English is doing his best to comfort an inconsolable Grammar:(
Seriously, what is the big deal about LE users? Can they harm you? No! Can they steal your kills? Considering most LE users are low level.....not really. Can they paraspam you or screw you with buffs (psi 1 on a tank)? No! Just because some tit with an LE acted like a spaz you want to ruin things for the majority of LE users who keep their LE in just so they can level in peace. I keep my LE in my tank for one reason. I got sick of being ganked for no reason on my APU. Night after night while I was leveling in P1 aggies or sewers I could be assured of getting ganked at least once by a player alot higer level than I was. I stood no chance of defending myself against some sexless half wit who thought he was great cause he killed a nub. Yeah, having a /20 char being ganked nightly by capped players was real fun.
I started my latest character in TG. I kept my LE in through my leveling there. I'm now PP (switched to do the epic) and I plan to keep my LE in and only remove it when I need epic kills, then put it back in.
We LE users have enough penalties. We have to hunt alone. We forgo the luxuries of PPU assistance. When we die we know we arent getting rezzed. We cant rely on a clan for back up. We give up a vital imp slot. We are giving up on op wars and HQ battles so we can play the game in peace.
The problem isnt LE users. Its arsehole PK'ers who get a chubby by killing players half their level, and giving more people who just want to play in peace a reason to keep the LE chip in.
JackScratch
07-10-03, 02:18
What is the harm in no LE after 30? I would saye the harm would be Randome PKers, who should not be allowed to exist in the game. That is the problem with it. I have said time and time again, you want to fight, I have no problem with that, but not everyone does. We should each be allowed to make that decision. Your idea makes for a plentiful murdering spree, but doesnt take anything else into account. Do away with faction as it is. I would vastly to prefer to select who my allies and enemies are. All nutral areas should be hunting grounds and if I kill a TG in a city area I shouldnt get neg SL, but if he kills me there he should. How do like them eggs? The game should be condusive to conflict, not retarded player hunting. If you are a red=dead, I will do everything in my power to make this game unplayabe for you, and Im not alone in my feelings on this. All you you whine about the things that stop you from killing other players are inconsiderate PKing pricks. Im not against PvP, and it is my intention to demonstrate that. What I am against is griefing, the killing of players without an actual motive. I would be fine with clan wars, I think that would give you all the PvP you need, hell OP wars aught to be enough, but no, you wont be happy till you can wander into the sewers and cellars of NC and Murder all the leveling players in there, even the ones you have never seen. There are lots of people in this game that neeeed killing, and if those of you complaining weren't the very ones Im talking about, I would suggest you go find them.
The problem isnt LE users. Its arsehole PK'ers who get a chubby by killing players half their level, and giving more people who just want to play in peace a reason to keep the LE chip in.
ROFL, well said.
Im so sick of all the carebears saying go play CS. I play this because I like building chars AND pking. I can build better chars then other CAPPED people, so why shouldnt i be able to take advanatge of my brilliant char building skills and own people who suck at it? (95% of NC)
Also, again for the 100th time neocrons suppost to be a dark scary world. its after the earths destroyed and you have to fight for survival. if your using an LE, your ruinging that part of the game.
Heres my idea for SL. I dont fucking understand if I as BD kill a protopharm in J03, how the hell does anyone know? Copbot didnt see it, and hes dead, so hes not speaking, and im not gonna go confess to a copbot.
I say if a copbot SEES a cityt allied fac kill a city allied fac, then u get neg SL. If a TG guard SEES a TG kill a chran, then you get neg SL. But if you kill someone in the middle of nowhere whos allied or neutral and nobody is a witnes, you should get a penalty.
JackScratch
07-10-03, 04:10
Youre assumeing that anyone cares what you are sick and tired of. Youre so sick and tired of it, the go play CS, where they wont tell you that. You think all these people are playing NC so you can feel like you havent wasted you pathetic life? Here is a thought, Ive spent a lot of time developeing my asorted physical and mental prowes, would it be wrong for me to pwn you IRL? You know right and wrong, you need a reason to fight, well there are plenty. Youre unimaginative enough that you cant figure them out, that's not my problem. PKers are sad people with fragile egos who think that its ok to make themselves feel better at someone elses expense, well you are wrong. Every time the PK subject comes up, some PKer says its role playing, well why dont you try that, find someone you actualy disagree with and pwn them. Oh, but that would mean talking to other players, and gawsh, I guess you probably dont have time for that, what with all the pwning people youve never spoken a word with. Carebear, no carebear, I dont care what you call me, If I cant ruin this atitude for you, then Ill find enough people who agree with me, and we will ruin it for you.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Im so sick of all the carebears saying go play CS. I play this because I like building chars AND pking. I can build better chars then other CAPPED people, so why shouldnt i be able to take advanatge of my brilliant char building skills and own people who suck at it? (95% of NC)
Which is why I consider NC to be a catass PvP game, you can camp mobs and build up a character by playing 24/7 and then go out and PvP. There may be character building skill required in NC, but it dillutes PvP skill to almost nothing.
Also, again for the 100th time neocrons suppost to be a dark scary world. its after the earths destroyed and you have to fight for survival. if your using an LE, your ruinging that part of the game.
Not according to the people who leave their LE in. Besides, no one roleplays shit in this game so the "it's a dark world" bullshit won't fly. The only excuse for whining about LEs is that someone wants to gank lower level characters, presumably because that someone is too inept to risk getting into an even fight.
Heres my idea for SL. I dont fucking understand if I as BD kill a protopharm in J03, how the hell does anyone know? Copbot didnt see it, and hes dead, so hes not speaking, and im not gonna go confess to a copbot.
I say if a copbot SEES a cityt allied fac kill a city allied fac, then u get neg SL. If a TG guard SEES a TG kill a chran, then you get neg SL. But if you kill someone in the middle of nowhere whos allied or neutral and nobody is a witnes, you should get a penalty.
Surprise, your Protopharm victim is revived (you remember these things called Genreps?) and HE tells people you shot him. This should have been obvious to a tree stump.
Didn't bother reading anything, just going to pop this in and see how its received.
SL Loss is fine as it is, they just need to make being red viable. I'm sick and tired of the gay UO type setup where yeah, you can be an evil dude, but its fucking impossible to keep it up. They should make it so you don't get any extra drops if you're red, they should make it so you lose your faction affiliation or something if you go below like... -25 or -30. Then anyone can kill you and all they get is SL gain.
Hell, Can't wait for Anarchy Breed - the only faction with the semblance of being evil - while not giving a flying rats ass.
Danke, Danke.
*throws candy to the crowd*
OK WTF is this CS crap?
You wanna pvp you wanna PK go play CS?
Well why dont you go play Everquest?
What do you think this game is geared for the collecter crafter? There are 2 skills ressers and builders and anything really rare and cool to make no you can sit there and either make the same thing over 100 times to get a 5 sloter or get 6 parts to build a good yet not really rare wepon and hope you are blessed with slots.
Rare hunt? spend 2 hours hunting warbots or fire mobs real load of content there.
Anyway what is this shit about why should the PvPers, PKers ruin they game for me um think againwhy should you ruin the game for pvpers PKers.
When I started here there were rare wepons droping no safe slots TG's could kill anyone all they wanted red faction ment goodbye zero consiquences. Type a person who mouthed off to yea in game and u could track him done.
This game had a great PvP dangerous dark world ellement to it for the most part no that has been raped into something foul.
KimmyG, you rant on but you avoid answering any of the points people raised against your argument. Typical, I suppose, for this forum.
Dude, get off your high-horse.
Go back to your little planetside fanboi page - maybe you'll make more friends that way.
You obviously don't read the site, I declared PS a dead game weeks ago. You couldn't find a decent big battle anywhere except on one server and then only during primetime, which made the game not worth the money. I think that the subscription FPS idea is a failure.
I'm not surprised that you stand up for someone who ducks the issue, though.
Planetside's been dead since they closed off the beta.
And no, I simply feel that the current soul-light system is amazingly stupid.
You can't tell me that the future wastelands of the world are full of upstanding people.
Well, right now the average runner has decent, if not above average SL because they fear losing desirable items in their hackable belts.
The game needs to make it so being evil is possible and viable.
That is easy to fix, remove item drops entirely for death and just let people fight for the sake of fighting, then perhaps you'd have people playing evil (except that no one roleplays in NC).
People roleplay, you just seem to be in the wrong circle. Pluto FA before the council breakup was beautiful.
Removing item drops would be one way to fix it. But if this is done again - it would have to be done right.
Or else we'd have half the servers as some of those rampant PK's.
I doubt you could do anything to me if we met inreal life jack scratch. Despite what you may think, im not some little computer geek. Plus, i doubt your anything special in strength or inteligence, last time a checked, not a lot of great athletics or scholars used the word pwn.
At Alex, so what if he gets repped and tells... there no witness. My word vs his. and it still the same point, why would a copbot care if I kill a chran? or a TG kills an FA?
There are plenty of care bear mmorpg games out there, try star wars galaxies, you both have to agree to fight.... LOL...
This game used to be so much more hard core, sl was sketchy so you could pk a lot with no penalty, and you could look up anyone you wanted on the comms and find thier location and pk them. LE had huge penalites. Oh, thoes were the days, thoes were the days.....
I really dont care that some people dont want to pvp... if you want that time of game AND wanna kill mobs, plat SWG, there you cant get pked. This game was SUPPOST to be a pvp mmorpg, not the care bear world its turning into. Stop thinking its just a carebears game. If you look around, most people have LEs out, so want to be involved in what the game was made for, PVP. Pkers pay for this game too, and we want less sl penaties, le removed completly or at least nerfed in some way, and things like player locator back.
Why should I play SWG? Combat sucks in that game, you can go to sleep and still play. I like the FPS interface in NC, I also hate the way autocombat works with firearms in AO (I have gun using characters in NC and melee characters in AO). I don't play level-based MMORPGs for PvP, I don't have time to compete with the catasses that can camp monsters all day long for top end weapons or weapons parts. When I want a vicious kill-or-be-killed experience I play Delta Force BHD, not roleplaying games.
and it still the same point, why would a copbot care if I kill a chran? or a TG kills an FA?
I missed that part of your argument, good point there. The question of a need for SL basically gets down to a need to control the level of PKing in the game. If not controlled in some manner PKs will destroy a game by driving off customers (and, for the record, it is also the PKs that are often exploiters and cheaters), it's that simple.
Face it, there is a small part of the game population that will keep their LE in (and it is a small part, I am usually the only one with a LE chip around where ever I go) and you will not get to kill them. Time to cope with reality.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
KimmyG, you rant on but you avoid answering any of the points people raised against your argument. Typical, I suppose, for this forum.
I dont think you read one of my posts.
I have stated how the SL system doesn't protect n00bs all it does is hinder high lvl pvp action. 3 kills = 3 missions. Anyway I dont have a problem with takeing SL for killing a /15 in the aggy cellar but I do have a problem with taking SL fighting a large merc clan in MC5.
I have no problem with the LE being used as safety at the begining but when I see player using PA and a doombeamer in the cave that are just using the LE to lvl in saftey I got a problem with that.
Also I have to agree with Vet even though I hate that kim this game was a harcore PvP game from the start almost like old school UO lots of battles loads of danger just less loot that is what it was made to be thats why i started playing this if you dont like PvP there are other games with loads more content for the PvMers mob hunters. EQ,SWQ and so on less to zero pvp no pking lots of rare goodies to please you.
I feel that the absolute soullight rules are fine. Keep track of where and who you are shooting, and maybe be smart enough to use precision weapons vs. AoE when in proximity to your buddies. Droning doesn't apply, since its bugged. Only thing I'd change is that you can safely retaliate if you aren't neg sl without worrying about your own sl. Other than that: Gee, what a bitch, you can't kill indescriminately and profit at the same time. Cry me a fucking river.
Safezones? Let me see, your upset because you can't draw a weapon and mow down mostly folks that aren't equipped worth a shit either offensively or defensively, or skilled worth a shit offensively of defensively, am I right? It seems weird to me that people seem concerned that they wont be able to sneak into p1 and level the whole place.Never happened before, so why now?I will say though, that such safezones should exist somewhere in all of the major settlements,(NC, MB, TH, TG, DoY)
Currently, the rules favor those that don't pk indescriminately. I fail to see what's wrong with this. I figure this seperates the men from the boys; the men sack up and roll with the punches and the boys whine and bitch.If the RPK'ers weren't bitching it would be logical that they weren't limited enough, since you will never hear about the disappointment in the lack of tradeskiller rushes.
If you are complaining too much you are whining, not whinging
I've been told that in England the term is, in fact, "whinging". I haven't been to England since then to check, though.
Original monk
07-10-03, 12:19
every fecking time i say: yes i will help you poor noobs level in the chaoscaves (im a ppu) , i regret it later on, cause every time i get PKed by around 14 new dawns in the back, go get some skill they say, with 8 apu's 4 tanks and 2 ppu's they attack me, paraspam-antibuff-damageboost, not alot skill about this, evrytime when im healing some noobs, everytime in the back, darn backstabber techniques... does that proves off alot of skill ? dont think so :rolleyes:
to make my story a bit shorter: next time i will put an LE in yeah kimmyG, so people like YOU cant PK me anymore in the back while im helpin out some noobs :) ty for the nice tip, i will enjoy laughing at them TG's when they start yellin : LE noob .
same in MC5 area...
(not that an LE makes you unkillable, still people enjoy using exploits to kill LE'ed people, cause yeah thats still possible, i even made a video about it, but i aint postin that one...cause its not legal on this forum to post video's about how you get killed with youre LE in)
Voodoochicken
07-10-03, 17:51
One thing I admit I forgot was that you have to take your LE out to do the epics.
The problem is that you shouldn't have to PvP to complete an epic run. The imbalances in faction populations/ranks (ie.. some factions only consist of a "few" high lvl characters) mean that most people use money/PPU to hire people to be killed. :wtf:
If epic runs were changed, then there is no reason for peeps who don't want to PvP to take their LE out.
[Also.. maybe in the future there could be "diplomatic/trade" clan keys available where you have to be an LE wearer, but can't take over ops.
These would basically be "Shop Keys".
I only say this, because someone will complain that they have to take their LE out so they can have clan chat/tag/appartment.]
The loss of a "precious" implant slot to the LE is a complete bs argument, because if you aren't PvPing you don't need ANY implants (and it certainly doesn't have an effect on Roleplay).
***
Anyone that doesn't want to risk non-consentual PvP should keep their LE in for the whole life of their character.
If you want to PvP, but only once a month, then instead of taking your LE out, why don't you go and play CS for a bit?
(Ok, so I'm mocking some people a little by using CS as the example. Imo, it's shit.
Games like bf1942 are much better.)
If the only people you are willing to PvP against are "evil pkers", then keep your LE in so they can't pk you. Problem solved. :)
***
Little rant:
Besides other changes I've mentioned, I wouldn't mind if SI wore off faster (to reduce a nasty timesink) and non-consentual res-killing was made impossible.
[remember: PPU needs changing/balancing]
Also, I wouldn't mind if implants didn't fall out when you are killed - Implants falling out is just another lame time sink (and you think it affects a [pking] clan? Nope).
Instead of falling out, random implants would be damaged.
(I'd still keep my 84 implant skill, because I like to shuffle my imps around.)
***
For your information:
-I don't have any maxed characters (they are under xx/50)
-I want to PvP with any lvl character
(currently I can't because the costs are too high from timesinks and SL/faction sympathy loss - not from item loss.
This is one reason why many people want to lvl until they max, then PvP.. how ironic.)
-I don't want to pk everyone in sight for no reason
-I mainly PvP solo and never have a PPU with me
-I'm unclanned
***
please take note that i have made an attempt not to be nasty about anyone - if the only thing that you can comment on is an agresive insult or the "bad " use of the english languade (spelling is only as usefull as table maners - you use them to suck up to peaple that you want something from - in the real world, if your hungy, then eat! it don't matter if you hold your little finger out at a 45degree angle) then you are only showing your self up to be nothing more than your parents genetic garbige (a faild abortian)
so with that in mind.....
i think the whole problem, is that as a single group, the pepale who play neocron can't decide what thay want. some of them whan't to roleplay - some of them don't want to (or can't).
this will eather end when all the peple who like one thing but hate the other leave, everyone leaves or some compramise can be work'd out.
the third option is (in my opionon) the best, as it give's a bigger resorce to KK who will have more of a chance to improve on the game for everyones benifit. if the game gets better, more peaple play = more resorces etc.
one way of makeing an compramise would to chainge the way that the sl and Le works, for example - instead of having warriors everywhere (some of who are invulrable) you have warriors (no LE) and civilans (scientists - constructors - reparers - hunters etc.) who although have an LE can still be killed by the warriors. (the civilans would be harmless to non - le)
but the penalty for killing a civilan would be far grater than killing another non - le
the thing i think about, is who owns and controls the way LE chips work and who also owns and controls the way gen-reps work?
if it's neocron (i.e. pro - city fractions) who tell you that thay wan't you to keep your LE in, then shurly thay could make life more comftable for themselfs by not gen-reping peaple who have taken there LE's out.
if it's also DOY technolagy (who seem to be have the same harsh rulles for anyone that dusn't agree with them as neocron has) thay might also have a simular system in place.
as both sides would not want "loose cannons" amongst there ranks (unless thay have full controll of the cannons and as has been shown, make shure that the loose cannons are unable to survive lon enuf to be turn'd against them)
so, the way it would work would be something like this.
non-le kills non-le from an enemy fraction = no loss of soul points
non-le kills non-le from frendly fraction = loss of 10 sl
non-le kills LE = loss of 20 sl
thease don't have to be exaclty as iv'e put them (could have multipyers dependent on the type of zone etc.)
but as soon as someone has a sl less than (for aguments sake) -50 sl, then the powers that be temparary deleate the DNA from the genreps (untill sl can be gain'd)
this would give anyone the opitunity to take revenge on a random pk'er by grouping together and hunting him/her down and what better revenge, than makeing shure that peapson stay's dead.
like i said... just my thoughts - you can go back to your name calling now.
welll em i recall reading on something that says NC is meant to be a pvp based mmorpg...
but either way i think that they should make it so that being red is viable... like u dont drop all that shit... and can still go places tho only cops will kos u...; and the only down side would be a loss of FS against who u kill, and that faction ONLY... currently u kill a neutral and u lost FS with your own... ITS A NEUTRAL! NO ONE CARES! :D
i think the whole problem, is that as a single group, the pepale who play neocron can't decide what thay want. some of them whan't to roleplay - some of them don't want to (or can't).
No, the problem is that the game has evolved to try to satisfy both the PvP and PvM market and some children are throwing tantrums over the fact that they cannot kill every single other player in the game. The game does not revolve around PvP, PvP just happens to be a large part of the game but only a part of it. If the game revolved around PvP then there would be more in-game effects other than I cannot go to this or that OP. If someone isn't interested in PvP then it has no impact on them at all, something that wouldn't be true if the game revolved around PvP.
Some of us play this game instead of SWG or AO because we prefer the FPS interface for high tech combat. I specifically don't PvP in this game because it is a catass level based PvP system that favours the camper with their ass numb from sitting endlessly waiting for cool gear or weapon parts to drop. Sorry, I don't have time to compete with that.
The loss of a "precious" implant slot to the LE is a complete bs argument, because if you aren't PvPing you don't need ANY implants (and it certainly doesn't have an effect on Roleplay).
That may be the most dishonest statement of the day, so far. LE users need implants like other people for the various skill point boosts, I couldn't drive a Rhino without losing the edge off another skill if I didn't have implants.
Whiety Bulger
07-10-03, 21:26
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc8.jpg
LoL this is a long clone all the old threads in whitvh half the people are like "STFU CAREBEARS" and the other half are like "OMG BIG MEAN NEW DAWN PK ME ALL THE TIME WAHHH"
Originally posted by Alex Mars
That may be the most dishonest statement of the day, so far. LE users need implants like other people for the various skill point boosts, I couldn't drive a Rhino without losing the edge off another skill if I didn't have implants.
If you have no interest in pvp then what do you care if the SL is system is canned?
Yes LE users lose 1 slot and lose out on Epics the epic argument is valid but I am for a 2 way route one of comabt one of peace or just make them like the NEXT epic.
Anway back to the one slot if you lose one slot what do you care if your a no pvper and have an LE you wont need what pvpers need in there setups do you really need to cap out a highend weapon like the CS,HL or FL. DO you need to get the perfect balance of imps and points to have the mint pvp setup.
Pvpers need to cap out there weapon and at the same time balance there resists so they have good HP take low dmg from all forms of asualts and at the same time have good speed.
Ok so maybe to answer a question I have on the matter alex what is that one slot costing YOU?
Now would you have a problem if KK changed Epics and implented
a 5th slot soloy for the LE chip that had a limit to it? I am still opossing to the in out style of gaming.
Ok so maybe to answer a question I have on the matter alex what is that one slot costing YOU?
Well, I have been looking at some of the epic chips, but other than that I don't have a specific chip in mind.
This and most of your above post is totally irrelevant to my quote that you list above. It was said in response to the statement that LE users didn't need ANY implants.
What are you trying to do by taking my quote out of context and asking questions that do not apply to either the post I was answering or my quote itself?
You also continue to weasel around and avoid the fact that you are wrong in your assessment of the SL system. It does protect new players by preventing PKs from continuously camping and killing new players, somnething that they would be doing if the SL system didn't exist. The time a PK spends doing a few missions is time they cannot kill anyone. History shows us that PKs will in fact continuously camp an area and kill newbs endlessly for hours if something doesn't force them to stop.
I'll stop believing that you are an ignorant troll if you can actually answer the points that were raised against your argument instead of posting more of your usual ranting.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
No, the problem is that the game has evolved to try to satisfy both the PvP and PvM market and some children are throwing tantrums over the fact that they cannot kill every single other player in the game....(snip)...weapon parts to drop. Sorry, I don't have time to compete with that.
thats what i was getting at - the reason i don't play anymore is due to some peaple just as you discribe, not there actions so much as there hostile attitude (in my case, i was told that I was spoiling the game by having LE- i.e. the hostility was a RL one and nothing to do with roleplaying ).
so where to go from there? argue over who should stop playing and who shoud stay? split the servers into PvP only and PvM only?
i personly could cope with the mindles PKing if there was proper cause and effect. i.e. you murder (as apose to lawfully kill) someone and face a consecence (greater than an inconvinace).
in a roleplaying way of thinking about it (i.e. you forget about peaple PKing cos thats the game thay wana play) i see PKing as pointless.
1) the human race has just recoverd from a nuclear war - so just as the 60's hippy movement grew when the usa conshance was sick of women and children being murderd by teenage troops in veit-nam - so to would the survivors of the wars know that warfare isn't a good thing.
and 2) with the gen-rep invention, it makes killing someone pointles - if there only gona come back, troops would never loose numbers - eventuly both sides would get bord and not bother to fight (prehaps thay'd turn to eaconomical battles) cos there would be nothing gain'd
but that's would be in a real (or relistic) demografic, the problem is - with the curent AD&D like rulles - there is no way for a victim to take revenge. there is no way that someone can beat a higher (more powerfull) charictor - and if thay some how find a way, whats the point? there only gona do it again (and again, and again)
so would there be room in an ideal sinario for both the PvP fans and the PvM fans? dus that ideal sinario exist? cos if not - this game is well and truly screwed in the long term.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
You also continue to weasel around and avoid the fact that you are wrong in your assessment of the SL system. It does protect new players by preventing PKs from continuously camping and killing new players, somnething that they would be doing if the SL system didn't exist. The time a PK spends doing a few missions is time they cannot kill anyone. History shows us that PKs will in fact continuously camp an area and kill newbs endlessly for hours if something doesn't force them to stop.
Yes I do agree the SL system does hinder PKing n00bs and does so quite well. Now do I have a problem with this NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I have stated many times leave it in at the low lvling spots in neocron leave it as is this.
This posts has nothing to do with returning the game to the days of TG camping the aggy cellars 24/7 and killing n00bs none stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What this posts does have to do with
Hight TG runners fighting High Merc runners over the right to farm MC5
Right now several saturn FA clans have enter in peace with the MERC's in an NAP. This post has to do with fighting high end chars claned and involed in the battle for neocron.
This has to do with a neutral clan of high end users attacking me and some freinds around gaya mine and us and them fighting.
POINT IS I DONT GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT THE SL SYSTEM IN LOW END SEWERS,CAVES, AND GRANDMA KITCHEN LEAVE IT AS IS AND LET NIBS LVL AWAY.
THE POINT IS THE CURRENT SYSTEM RUINS HIGH LVL CHARS ALL CLANED AND FAR FROM BEING N00BS BATTLEING IN THE GAME.
NOW ANYONE GONNA READ THE CAPS AND SEE WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT OR ARE YOU GONNA CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT THE P00R AGGY CELLAR N00BS?
JackScratch
08-10-03, 03:09
I feel strongly that I represent a third party in this arguement. The PKers will call this third party carebears, but then they call everyone that other than themselves because they are simpleminded and unimaginative. I represent those who are in no way against PvP, but rather against what I will call in game, un provoked murder. You fight over an OP, thats cool, you fight a clan who's values you disagree with, thats cool, you hunt down neanderthal random PKers out to prove that they actualy have sex organs, when they, in fact, do not, thats cool. You run around killing anyone for a reason as stupid as their faction alone, thats uncool. Im all for PvP, Im against the retards who think that means kill everyone.
JackScratch! i salute you sir.
Some idiots here call me a carebear also, even though I play PvP games and ran a PK guild in UO. I guess not killing newbs or helpless opponents and looking for challenging and fair fights in a game make me a carebear.
The funny thing is that there is no one in the argument here except PK extremists who want to be able to kill everything in the game and moderate PvP players who like some limitations to prevent the game becoming a all-out gank-fest. Despite some of the lying posts that regularly pop up on this forum, no one is trying to turn this game into an EQ clone. It is just that there are a lot of stupid children here that can't distinguish the difference between some limits on the killing and a total carebear server. It doesn't help that there are a lot of fools here that think that playing a PK in a video game makes them a tough guy in real life.
JackScratch
08-10-03, 06:22
Well I am a tough guy in real life and I sure as hell dont RPK. And thank you Wardivitch, I like knowing Im not alone in my feelings.
OK well seeing as you guys arn't down with the SL idea maybe you can give me some tips on what is fun to do in neocron other than runnnign about pking and starting fights?
Whats is a typical day for you in neocron?
JackScratch
08-10-03, 07:31
Fun being entirely a matter of perspective, no I cant. However I can tell you that PKing can only be enjoyable for so long. PKers done last. I enjoy createing, persureing justice, makeing NC a better place over all. Why fight for the wrong reasons when there are plenty of right reasons to fight? I enjoy heading my clan, I enjoy teaching other runners what I have learned, I actualy enjoy hunting and leveling. I enjoy creating new ways to make things run smoothly, I enjoy interclan politics. I dont know what you would enjoy, if it's just PKing then maybe NC just isnt for you. Hell, if you like to fight so much, try dueling, Im all for that, show a little honour. You know, thats the worst part, people see this game as just a game, but what it realy is, is humans interacting. When you PK, you are doing more than killing some AI, That's a representation of another persons wishes and desires in a created world that you are interfiering with, even violateing. We are realy talking about respect here, PKers have none, and as such deserve none. You like to fight, there are lots of ways to do it that are far from wrong, in fact would be most respectable, but whacking people as they try to walk through PP1 is not one of them.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Fun being entirely a matter of perspective, no I cant. However I can tell you that PKing can only be enjoyable for so long. PKers done last.
I have to dissagree I spent a long dam time pking in UO and it wasn;t so much that pking got boring that made me leave it was more of just the game getting old.
What else is there to do I have just about everything I could ever need in game. Anyway rare hunting? 1-2 hours u can haul in a good 30.
Most of my chars are all high lvl.
So I got loads of items, nice arry of cash, high chars so yea I just wanna fight now.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
I've been told that in England the term is, in fact, "whinging". I haven't been to England since then to check, though.
Interestingly enough, you are correct, much to my surprise. While I'm not much of a spelling ************, I've never felt it right to allow someone to continually mispell something; Kind of like letting someone go around all day with a "Kick me" sign on their back instead of telling them so. I'll not remove that particular line from my sig, however, since its a matter of dialect, not language.
Back to the topic: If the so called pk'ers are bitching about it, it must be hitting close to the target and be at least somewhat appropriate and accurate.
So far, lately, all I hear is that some people think they should be able to attack tradeskillers in P1, and they are mad that they can't. IMO, there should be at least one safezone per major area, like NC, TG, TH, MB and DoY.
I just think its funny as hell that the pk'ers are now put into the whining zone. And some of them claim to be sooooooo damaged because they actually have to put some thought in shooting at a target box, instead of just twitching acustom setup.Then again I do have enough sypmathy to say that selfdefense should be an option. If you don't start it, you should be able to finish it with no penalty.
JackScratch
08-10-03, 07:51
Kimmy
You do understand that what you are saying is evidense in my favor? It also shows a lack of comitment. Try to see the big picture. If you cant think outside your own character, then you are completely missing the point of NC in the first place. You can create a PKing character, or you can be a part of the creation of a world, which do you think is a greater acomplishment? To destroy is easy, to create is the sourse of all true greatness. I hope to one day say that I was a part of the creation of a world where people from across the globe could come together in a situation that is benificial and enjoyable for all, not where I get my kicks. There is no reason why you cant do what you want to do without ruining the game for someone else. Why would you even want to?You can find others like yourself withing the game, and beat yourselves bloody to yoiur hearts content. Why do you feel it is either good or right to seek out someone who has no desire for that kind of thing and attack them, usualy unexpectedly and with a grotesque advantage on your part?
Soon when the clan wars thing is actully working, I don't think you will lose SL for killing members of a clan that you are at war with.
Originally posted by JackScratch
KWhy do you feel it is either good or right to seek out someone who has no desire for that kind of thing and attack them, usualy unexpectedly and with a grotesque advantage on your part?
Ok how bout answer this a few days ago at TH me and to friends got involved into a scuffel with a FA clan they had even numbers all were 60+ and all had rares wepons. Now I was having fun fighting them and seemed like they were haveing fun to. Now the question is should this fight have ended because we hti low SL.
Nobody won, Nobody lost, dead center of the fight we chacked are SL and hit the GR and left.
@Erinyes I really dont know were this remove of safe zone from plaza 1 talk came from.
This is more towards change high end *** caves from hunt zones to anarachy zones.
And making it so you can fight a clan that is not hostile to you and not have the fight end in 6 mins cause of SL complications.
Voodoochicken
08-10-03, 17:13
WEEE WOOOO WAHAHAH>..
Can people at least read the posts they are responding to?
I guess not.. that's why "I have left the game".
Imo, this thread is about the SL system/people abusing the LE.
It is not about removing the LE or safezones.
****
My current character is a rank xx/48 semi-hybrid monk.
I have 84 in implant, plus gimped APU damage due to the few points I have in PPU. My only PSI related implant is an aggressive PSI cpu 1 and I can't runcast.
The only advantage I might have over runners of similar rank is that my CON is maxed (though I have 30 unspent points atm).
I'm quite happy to occasionally PvP with this character even though i'm not maxed and I don't even wear armour.
I've been attacked several times by characters using rares, yet I managed to escape death by running away.
I've been attacked by individual runners of similar rank to myself, and they've ended up retreating.
Of course, if I came up against a runner with a pure PvP setup (who also had the ability to use it), I'd die very quickly if I stood and fought them.
My (longwinded) point is that I basically have a setup that's manageable for some PvP and easily good enough for PvM, yet I have no armour and use some shoddy implants (as well as one slotted-spells.. .oooooh, wow).
Imo, someone (who doesn't want to PvP) complaining that they'd lose "precious skill points" (by wearing an LE) is laughable.
[edit] And if you still have a problem with losing an implant slot, then you should consider why that is.
Hint: Specialisation is a problem in this game.[/end edit]
At least some can read and gets what this post is about.
JackScratch
08-10-03, 19:05
Kimmy, in response to your story I have to ask some questions. First of all, how do you know they were happy about what was going on? Last night some PKing Ho about 20 ranks above me shot my leveling Broker in the back in aggie sewers, I went and got my CSTer who was much higher rank and ganked her ass (good reason yo PK by the way. ) I wasnt happy about haveing to do it, and she got Neg SL as she should.
Next, if in fact all involved were pleased with the situation, what stopped all of you from finding an anarchy or war zone and haveing a party? You make it sound like the stupid system has completely removed the ability to PvP, far from it. If you want to PvP and they want to PvP, there are plenty of acceptable ways to do it, and that is my entire point. I have been involved in some glorious OP wars, and The TechSyn v DARK war was spectacular and spanned the entire globe. If you want all kill all the time, you have discribed CS, but if you are willing to play withing the boundries, the only thing you cant do, you shouldnt do in the first place.
If and when the implememnt the red clan war stat, you should even be able to fight in anarchy zones with impunity if you want. Cmon, what are you realy after, cause its all there. You can have all the PvP fun you want if you are just willing to leave alone those wishing to be left alone. They need to make bunker a hunting zone to, then it would be freaking perfect. You might try asking your oponents, if you havent already, if they enjoyed the fight. They might have been very angry at being attacked and haveing to deal with the situation, then again they might not have.
I actualy have an idea about starting an ingame deuling society, through group preasure the society would call for a very strict code of deuling ethics, which would include ostricisation for the repeated refusal of deuls with those of near equal ability and rank, shame on those who GR camp, suprise attack, unless agreed upon by the terms of the deul, and Chalengeing of those of vastly lesser rank. If you are going to fight, for god sakes fight with honor.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Kimmy, in response to your story I have to ask some questions. First of all, how do you know they were happy about what was going on? Last night some PKing Ho about 20 ranks above me shot my leveling Broker in the back in aggie sewers, I went and got my CSTer who was much higher rank and ganked her ass (good reason yo PK by the way. ) I wasnt happy about haveing to do it, and she got Neg SL as she should.
Again you go back to the aggy cellar with a sob story of a poor n00b that got killed by a high lvl for the last time this has nothing to do witht he aggy celler or removal of the SL system.
This has to do with groups of high lvled runners having it out in differn't places. When have I said make the aggy cellar a anarchy or remove the SL system I am talkin about changing to allow large fights bettween high runners to last more than 5 mins cause one side starts losing SL.
Make bunker a hunt zone MB is A) givena warning about its danger and B) Anyone who lvls there is either a noob or a moron bunker is the worst lvling place in the and you never need to go there it is always over horded with lvling runners and pks, stay away from the bunker plain and simple you never need to lvl at the bunker. You want to fight cyclops there is several spawns that are un populated and then there is pool wich is a hunt zone.
So to finish I dont care about the AGGY CELLAR leave it as is I DONT WANT THE AGGY CELLAR SYSTEM CHANGED. Read the post and stop looking like a retard.
JackScratch
08-10-03, 19:50
Kimmy, ther aggie cellar story was ment to show the interaction of SL and PKers and how they should work. You completely ignored the questions I asked pertenant to your spacific story.
Bunker is the only fast spawn cyclops spot with a City term moderately near by, its only real detraction would be the PKers which would be modified (not fixed) by makeing it a hunting ground. I m begining to see that you didnt come to this table very open minded, but the title of this string should have been a clue there shouldnt it? The fact is I have given you everything you asked for and you dont care, you want to PK, your goal is to PK, and damn it no one is going to stop you from PKing. However you are unhappy that the game has factors which inhibit your PKing, and youre here to see that it is stoped, because by gum, you are going to PK, and no one can tell you you are not.
The thing that realy worries me is the promotion of actions without consequince, Im not saying its bad to PvP, Im saying be conciderate of your fellow runners, and thats just not an ideal PKers can grasp. Like I said, they are people, real people andworthy of the same kind of considerations you should give real people in the real world. And there it is, have you looked around, all the nice people shareing there low base music with the neighborhood at 3AM, people cutting in line, no consideration ever given to the fact that you are shareing this planet with a lot of other people. I mean that's life right, "I get what I want and to hell with everyone else."? What kind of world (NC or Not) do you want to live in? Is life just a game to?
It was an anarchy zone and what, stop guys to the nearest op and lets continue. That is boring not fun and all around lame.
Problems with challendges
to Often more than nearesary show up.
Not as fun TH is a fun area to fight
some times you go there an no one shows and u watste forever waiting.
Bunker is not the only fast spawn
there is mini bunker
the pool
dome
and other spawns around the world.
ghandisfury
08-10-03, 21:09
Originally posted by JackScratch
Fun being entirely a matter of perspective, no I cant. However I can tell you that PKing can only be enjoyable for so long. PKers done last. I enjoy createing, persureing justice, makeing NC a better place over all. Why fight for the wrong reasons when there are plenty of right reasons to fight? I enjoy heading my clan, I enjoy teaching other runners what I have learned, I actualy enjoy hunting and leveling. I enjoy creating new ways to make things run smoothly, I enjoy interclan politics. I dont know what you would enjoy, if it's just PKing then maybe NC just isnt for you. Hell, if you like to fight so much, try dueling, Im all for that, show a little honour. You know, thats the worst part, people see this game as just a game, but what it realy is, is humans interacting. When you PK, you are doing more than killing some AI, That's a representation of another persons wishes and desires in a created world that you are interfiering with, even violateing. We are realy talking about respect here, PKers have none, and as such deserve none. You like to fight, there are lots of ways to do it that are far from wrong, in fact would be most respectable, but whacking people as they try to walk through PP1 is not one of them.
I just wish I could make this my sig.
You like to fight, there are lots of ways to do it that are far from wrong, in fact would be most respectable, but whacking people as they try to walk through PP1 is not one of them.
It is my contention that people who like to PK don't actually like to fight. Fighting, by definition, carries risk in it; PKs don't want any risk (if you read PK guild websites you will find that they will state this explicitly). Lumping PKs in with PvPers is an insult to those PvPers.
PKs are losers that are trying to make themselves feel better by attacking weaker opponents.
PvPers are looking for a challenging fight.
As to the SL question, from reading KimmyGs ranting on the subject I realize that I only know how the system protects newbs and I actually don't know how the interaction of factions figures into the mix, can someone point me to an explanation of how it works?
QuantumDelta
08-10-03, 21:32
Outside of hunting zones, you can kill any enemy faction without being penalised.
In warzones you can shoot any faction without being penalised.
Meh.
JackScratch
08-10-03, 21:32
So is Texas the only place where we say "care to take this outside?" Do you just have your fights in the bar? What you are telling me is that you realy cant be bothered to put any effort into your PKing. My concern for meeting your needs is lessening by the word. It realy is just all about you isn't it. Youve decided you want it your way and no one can make you think otherwise. You dont care about what anyone else wants needs or even has a right to. Do you know why you keep getting told to go Play CS? It's because it is not NC, there is nothing to do in CS but PK, just what you keep asking for. In fact I believe that the only reason you play NC is bacause you have an unlevel playing field and you can actualy attack someone who does not intend to fight. Solely because there is much in NC to do besides fight. You like the fact that you get to be rotten to someone else. Well tough shit. this world isnt all about you. You dont likre it, go else where. Or better yet, learn to be a productive member of society rather than a cancer on it.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Outside of hunting zones, you can kill any enemy faction without being penalised.
In warzones you can shoot any faction without being penalised.
Meh.
Is the SL loss from killing a neutral clan member the same as killing an allied clan member?
QuantumDelta
08-10-03, 21:39
No.
And it applies to clanned and unclanned, afaik rank is also not factored.
uhm....bleh?
Are Anarchy Zones only found close to the cities? What is the percentage of Anarchy Zones to War Zones? Has anyone done a map that shows the zone types? Are there any OPs in Anarchy Zones?
Is the real problem that people want to kill allies without penalty or that neutrals want to fight it out in Anarchy zones?
OP zones = warzones.
non-op zones = anarchy zones
city = safezone.
KRIMINAL99
08-10-03, 22:13
Originally posted by JackScratch
Anyone talking about PKing clearly has no interest in RP in the first place. This red=dead crap has got to go. The Faction system is BS, we should all start out neutral and then develope aliances and hostilities as individuals and clans. And as for the Random PKers, aforementioned as red=dead, you should be hunted down and griefed till you can no longer play the game. It is my full intention to do just that. This ranting about LE and hunting grounds being anti RP is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Here is a thought, how bout RPing Dickheads Vs Decent human beings, my only concern is that the Dickheads will have most of the good PvPers. They have trouble working together as a team though, so Im willing to take the risk.
Oh brother... Anyone talking about pking has no interest in roleplaying? How does that work... Do us all a favor before you post anything else.
First - Go read the definition of roleplaying in the dictionary. If you actually believe you have a valid point, feel free to explain how pvping enemy gang/faction members contradicts the definition of roleplaying, and how using LE's to hang out in enemy base camps and penalizing enemies for fighting in a snake infested grave in the middle of the desert with no authorities around is in line with the definition of roleplaying.
Second - Calm down and realize that just because someone killed you doesn't mean that you are worthless, doesn't mean that you suck at Neocron, etc etc. When you truly understand why that is you will no longer feel the need to spam the forums out of anger with stuff like this.
Third - If you cant accomplish the second goal then its obvious you can't function healthily in a competitive enviornment and thus you should not be playing neocron without your LE cause your just going to cause your self more stress than anything else...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote # 2 by you:
So is Texas the only place where we say "care to take this outside?" Do you just have your fights in the bar? What you are telling me is that you realy cant be bothered to put any effort into your PKing. My concern for meeting your needs is lessening by the word. It realy is just all about you isn't it. Youve decided you want it your way and no one can make you think otherwise. You dont care about what anyone else wants needs or even has a right to. Do you know why you keep getting told to go Play CS? It's because it is not NC, there is nothing to do in CS but PK, just what you keep asking for. In fact I believe that the only reason you play NC is bacause you have an unlevel playing field and you can actualy attack someone who does not intend to fight. Solely because there is much in NC to do besides fight. You like the fact that you get to be rotten to someone else. Well tough shit. this world isnt all about you. You dont likre it, go else where. Or better yet, learn to be a productive member of society rather than a cancer on it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do pkers like to play Neocron? Is that what your asking? Ok ... Back when there was a lot riding on pk matches, that is losing an item from your quickbar or getting one from your enemies, pvp was a major adrenaline rush. Now I'll admit when you are killed unexpectedly its not as fun because you don't have much time to jolt to action before you are dead. But there are two ways this is fixed... One- Always expect and be ready to be attacked by people, or at least faction enemies. and Two- When you are killed, now you get to go hunt down the person who killed you and even if you don't get the drop on him its still a fun adrenaline pumped pvp match. The end result of this type of play is that you are wandering randomly through the desert and see and enemy and immediately jolt to action and fight and he fights too. That is the most fun the game could possibly be IMO and probably many others. But NOT "Gee golly gosh guys were feeling up for an OP war how about yall?" as if it was like a bowling match or something...
Now if you are one of those people that slams your desk whenever you lose and immediately looks for reasons why the other person won cheaply then its not healthy for you to be playing the game to begin with, unless you get REALLY good at only fighting when you know you will win.
JackScratch
08-10-03, 22:25
Wow, Ive seen people take things out of context before, but youve made it an art form. Let me guess, you read what you quoted and nothing else in the entire string. Do me a favor and go back and read it. If you care, Im betteing you are just preaching the holy word of PK.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Solely because there is much in NC to do besides fight. You like the fact that you get to be rotten to someone else. Well tough shit. this world isnt all about you. You dont likre it, go else where. Or better yet, learn to be a productive member of society rather than a cancer on it.
Like what?
What gives you the idea that this game isn;t geared towards PvP and wars and rough wild killers?
Look at it from an advertiseing standpoint, a Role play stand point, or just look at the game.
Look at neo history it is WAR,gangsters and so on. If you RP what role is the peaceful role? most factions are some what involed in the War.
You guys say compromise I think having low lvls protected is part of the PK compromise what is your compromise?
All I am asking for is people to look at and rethink the SL system for high lvled players. I cant fight rivasl that have shifted away from the TG side and over the the gangster or merc side of the game for very long.
If crahn wants to side more with BD fine
IF TH wants to side with Mercs fine
But if TG wants to fight these clans for allieing with the enemy why should they be able to do so for only 5 mins?
KRIMINAL99
08-10-03, 22:49
Originally posted by JackScratch
Wow, Ive seen people take things out of context before, but youve made it an art form. Let me guess, you read what you quoted and nothing else in the entire string. Do me a favor and go back and read it. If you care, Im betteing you are just preaching the holy word of PK.
Yes thats right, IMO pking is part of the game, and roleplaying in the game. Now lay it out nice and simple without all the antipker propaganda, why do you think its wrong again?
JackScratch
08-10-03, 23:25
Let me get this straight, your parents didnt teach you right from wrong, so you want me to do it in a game forum. As was made perfectly clear in a previous post, I am in no way against PvP. If you think that something is OK just cause of the way Reakktor structured a game, then you should pipe down and let the adults have a converstation.
Im not just talking about the damn game anymore, the attitude of the RPKer sticnks all the way around. You dont care what the game isment to be, you dont care what is right or wrong, all you care about is what you enjoy, and the thought of who else it affects never crosses your mind, cause if it did you might feel bad about what a piece of crap you are, and we cant have that. bSo I guess that I am to understand that the future is inhabited by mass numbers of cerial killers coating the land killing on sight. Bullshit, its all just an excuse for you to do whatever the hell you want. You dont care about RP, you dont care about factions, you dont care about anything but you. Well fine, go ahead, KK has set up the rules, so play by the. But myself and those like me are going to hunt you down and get rid of you. And as life is always a GR away I guess we will just have to do to you, what you do to us. Hunt you down till the game is no longer playable. An then when we have rid NC of your kind, the rest of us will create something better than we were handed. Sad that you wont be there to see it.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Let me get this straight, your parents didnt teach you right from wrong,
Yes killing is wrong,lieing is wrong and stealing is wrong. So what what they taught me is all good for real life. This game is however not real life.
I murder
I lie
I steal
You have no argument you sit here an rant about PKs in the cellar wich is in no way what this post is about at least alex is thinking about my objection to the system . Obey KK rules? they didn't change the rules for me they changed them for you obey the rules of the game? When there was tracking,drops and full PK everywjere did people like you obey and accept NO u whined till it was changed
I agree change was need to protect new players and low lvl players but with all changes to PKing they went to far instead of protecting the low lvls they went out and made everyone feel the harshness of the low lvl protection rules wich is to much this has nothing to do with returning the game to the days or early retail this is about meeting in the middle from the days of early retail and the current system.
Low protection is needed but high lvl protection is not. Go LE if dont want to deal with the PvP. However dont do both for whenever you feel like PvP and whenever you dont or dont go no LE and whine about the PvP asspect.
I bought this game cause of its PvP asspect thats what sold me on it and a few losers joined up and cryed about it so it got ruined say what you want about peace the non fighting RP asspect that has nothign to do with this game
You are the changer of the story
You are the changer of the game
Read this games story line and tell me where there peaceful, full safety part is. Show when in the early stages and vission of the game is the peaceful, full saftey side.
KimmyG :
you ask...
"If crahn wants to side more with BD fine
IF TH wants to side with Mercs fine
But if TG wants to fight these clans for allieing with the enemy why should they be able to do so for only 5 mins?"
but then TG is allieinc'd with crahn, so to follow your agument you could say that it's ok for a TG to randomly kill other TG's because thay are in alliance with the frends of the enemy ?? - thats not roleplaying, thats makeing up an excuse to hit things and ignoring logic to do so.
also - the game IS a mmorpg (the rpg bit means Roleplaying) i don't think you read the lable, try Planetside which is a mmofps (fps stands for first person shooter) - and then list why ps is not a verry good game.
KRIMINAL99 :
i'd be more than interested to find out which definition of "roleplaying" you use and how you can say that the random killing of anyone who can't fight back fits in to that definition.
espeshaly when killing them dusn't change anything for the "cause" of whatever side you are on - as the only way someone can die and not come back is by suicide.
or are you also mistakeing roleplaying for makeing up an excuse to do exactly what you whant at the expence of other peaples enjoyment?
--------------------
........ other hobbies include shooting fish in a barell with a shotgun? - wow that sounds like fun, you must be realy talented to do that, your a verry speachal person (speachal as in needs that is, not forces)
JackScratch
09-10-03, 00:36
You have repeatedly placed me in the position of anti PvP, dispite anything I have said to the contrary. You have just said that I have changed the game, you are correct, I have and I intend to change it more, and I dont need KKs help, nor do I need to wine to anyone. I never said I agree or disagree with anything KK has said. You have said this game isnt life, you are partialy but not fully correct. Murder in this game is not murder, but it does have a real effect of the rights and actions of another real human being. If two people wanted to duel each other to the death IRL, I personaly wouldnt have a problem with that but I can understand why laws are made preventing it. Thus the game. The fact that this is a game, in no way excuses the behavior of the RPKer, and I could realy care less how you or KK feels about it. Once again I know the difference between wrong and right. To be perfectly honest I neither desire nor intend for KK to change anything about the game. It is my intention to do it myself. I dont need a safezone to root out the PKers. Those of use who do know right from wrong will do it ourselves. You want to see role playing, Ill show you role playing, Im going to show you how an Idea is more powerfull than any weapon, any class, any character. Now thats roleplaying, and the storyline be damned. There are too many things in this world promoting the lack of concequince in life, Im not going to allow NC to be another one. You want PvP, youre going to get PvP, we are going to cram it down your throat. And when the dust has settled, you will understand what is right and what is wrong. I dont need copbots to stop a hand full of children who dont understand why its a bad idea to be a bad person. There are plenty of people out there who do know, and we are going to show all of you RPKers why its a bad idea.
go for it jack.. give 'em hell on toast!
it's obvius that the peaple detumined to shit on others wont go for a compramize.
but then, they do say that you can only reason with peaple who have the intelect to reason.
also - the thery of "but it's only a game" is a shalow one. anyone who has atended a card game where lots of money are at stake will be able to tell you that - i pitty the poor fool who spoils one of those games.
PKers and Non PKers, calm down; It's not the end of the game for any of you, what the "anti-pkers" are talking about is the prevention of f*cktards who go on a killingspree like they think they are playing CS; Those players are not many and they are not easy to miss.
Personally i'd like to boot them from the game at the cost of an increased montly fee which i would gladly pay since NC is the cheapest MMORPG i've played so far, NC is only a slightly more expensive than an special order pizza - and i eat pizza more than once every month.
/Ichinin
how about making the le useless make everyone without an le.
make it so that all runners not in a clan cannot attack and cannot be attacked by other runners.
the implant slot lost by le runners would be gained back again.
if runners dont want to take le's out until they feel they have levelled and cant be bothered with the hassle of being targeted by other runners then make it so that until a clan is joined they are not in danger from pk
maybe a system could be set up where when a runner joins a clan a fee is paid per runner instead of the idea of a key that costs a set price.... reduce the price of the clan key and add a joining fee that the clan doesnt receive to discourage runners from clan jumping and possibly make it so that upon leaving a clan they have to wait a certain amount of time (hours/days) before being able to join another clan. this would mean the bigger the clan the more the clan costs overall even though it is the runner paying the fee not the clan.
Originally posted by wardivich
but then TG is allieinc'd with crahn, so to follow your agument you could say that it's ok for a TG to randomly kill other TG's because thay are in alliance with the frends of the enemy ?? - thats not roleplaying, thats makeing up an excuse to hit things and ignoring logic to do so.
This could be RP, it is treason and the penilty is death. If a TG were to ally with the enemy they would be a traitor so sure PK them.
@jack now you dont need copbots or safezones? Your gonna teach the PKs a leasson? Your jumping all over the place here one minute you need the SL and safe zones now all that is needed is the iron fist of the of the antipk player? Really though take a pill you make PKing sound like a violation of human rights.
Anyway you guys really should drop this little CS kiddy skill less PK crap. I have never seen anyone respond to Pks in a fair fight always mass numbers to handle the little skill less kid pathetic really.
But back to the main point this is not to do with PKing this is to do with changeing the SL system in places where only high lvled or experianced players should be what is so fear inspireing about this suggestion?
@wench not to bad an idea somewhat like UO's caos order system But I could still see the same problem with the LE
Oh what after I leave the clan I cant get back in for a few days
Or suppose some asshole wants to stop the spawn ;)
Voodoochicken
09-10-03, 03:54
If I have morals in real life, but play as a neocron runner with less morals.. .well, I can see how that is clearly not roleplaying.
Whereas, if I was a whiney bitch with super-duper-morals in RL, and chose to play my neocron runners with exactly the same personality/morals, then.. .why, of course, I can see why that is roleplaying.
***
Possible changes.
-Only lose faction sympathy in one faction per kill
SL loss:
-In anarchy zones
Friendly, unclanned/clanned -10 SL
Neutral, unclanned -6 SL
Neutral, clanned -3 SL
Enemy, unclanned/clanned -1 SL
-In warzones
Friendly, unclanned/clanned -1 SL
All others -0 SL (no SL loss)
-remove hunting zones
-LE unable to be implanted after lvl xx/20
-Fix epic runs so you don't have to kill enemy runners (eg. allow torture of that annoying hacker until he talks ;))
-Upon death (ie. at zero health) damage random implants, but don't make them fall out. This should happen even if you are resurrected (ie. it happens when you fall over, not when you generep).
-Increase rate at which SI is removed.
-Significantly lower the SL that triggers dropping more items, so that mass murderers can actually stay red. (Being red aids rollplay, because people know that you don't have any problem with getting messy. ie. less wolves in sheeps clothing)
Maybe these changes would make being a mass murderer possible, whilst also lowering the timesink-trauma suffered by "people who refuse to wear the LE chip and are shot in the back whilst trying to lvl".
It would also ease the pain of accidental kills/ those who only kill in self-defence.
QuantumDelta
09-10-03, 04:10
Originally posted by Voodoochicken
If I have morals in real life, but play as a neocron runner with less morals.. .well, I can see how that is clearly not roleplaying.
Whereas, if I was a whiney bitch with super-duper-morals in RL, and chose to play my neocron runners with exactly the same personality/morals, then.. .why, of course, I can see why that is roleplaying.
***
Possible changes.
-Only lose faction sympathy in one faction per kill
SL loss:
-In anarchy zones
Friendly, unclanned/clanned -10 SL
Neutral, unclanned -6 SL
Neutral, clanned -3 SL
Enemy, unclanned/clanned -1 SL
Sounds okay.
-In warzones
Friendly, unclanned/clanned -1 SL
All others -0 SL (no SL loss)
Even allied factions fight over ops sometimes.
-remove hunting zones
So retards'r'us can run up behind you and trap you between some of the most dangerous mobs in the game and their APU/PPU or CS/PPU Team and kill you while you're leveling? o_O
Right okay :p
Sounds like being a weak person, imo.
-LE unable to be implanted after lvl xx/20
Ehh...looks alright on paper but to my power leveler mind that's just nuts...
-Fix epic runs so you don't have to kill enemy runners (eg. allow torture of that annoying hacker until he talks ;))
Eesh..
-Upon death (ie. at zero health) damage random implants, but don't make them fall out. This should happen even if you are resurrected (ie. it happens when you fall over, not when you generep).
Oh yea that's a great way to discourage Rezz killing o_O
-Increase rate at which SI is removed. Think everyone would agree with that.
-Significantly lower the SL that triggers dropping more items, so that mass murderers can actually stay red. (Being red aids rollplay, because people know that you don't have any problem with getting messy. ie. less wolves in sheeps clothing)
Heh, significantly?
-16 IS 4 kills, more if you watch what you're doing.
Most factions would "kos" you forever in a real cyber punk world if you ran around mass murdering ("RPKing").
Maybe these changes would make being a mass murderer possible, whilst also lowering the timesink-trauma suffered by "people who refuse to wear the LE chip and are shot in the back whilst trying to lvl".
Heh, instead of mass murders being rare occurances, like in reality, they would be every other citizen, now, even in a post apoc world, that is not something that would be that common.
RPK is not RP, it's a weak excuse that people use.
Infact, the only two people I have ever seen RP PKing is Zed and Hivemind.
It needs to be reworked, not adjusted. :p
JackScratch
09-10-03, 05:25
I think you people are realy missing the point here. Im talking about suffering the ramifications of your actions. When I say we are going to hunt down all RPKers and ruin the game for them, what I have in mind is no fairer a fight than than the RPKer gave thier victim. No quarter. You people think that I am a moral fanatic? That's ritch, Im just a considerate individual who expects no less from anyone else. You want to have your fun, by all means do so, but you make your fun a problem for anyone else and Itll be my pleasure to solve the problem. I dont want the system to change, I have PKKed and gotten neg SL for it, and I wear it like a badge, honestly its never been a problem. Kimmy, you think responding to RPKing with excessive force is sad, well its not half as sad as the RPKing that spawned it. As for dealing with children, a level playing field isnt going to make the point I intend to make. I am calling every good citizen to rise up against the RPKers in mass. RPKers PvP more than anyone else in the game, but be it known, there are many more who wish for a fair and honarable confrontation, whatever form it may take. Im not going to fight you face to face, this is a campaign against you. A campaign to be fought by everyone who has ever suffered from the surprise death from behind. Have you not seen the amount of support my beliefs have recieved in this string alone? Your days in NC are numbered, you may out class us in PvP, but we have the numbers. Get a reputation for RPKing and you wont be leaveing a safezone ever again. I will be personaly happy to suffer the SL loss myself, and many will share in the glory of your demise. Watch your back, we are comeing for you, and you cant kill all of us.
AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
OK im done no wait
AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
Now? No some more still
AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
Bring it buddy.
You all will never know how much the anti-pk lingo interests me it is the most amuseing thing on the planet.
JackScratch
09-10-03, 06:04
OK, so youre what, like 12? No realy. 15 tops. Laugh it up, enjoy. Kinda like a last meal. How long did you think it could last? There are a lot of problems with this game that I cant do anything about, but you arent one of them. In fact I dont see you and your kind as a particularly dificult problem. If your PvP is as bad as your debate skills, then you wont be particularly dificult to deal with one on one, but rest assured, I have no intention of offering something as noble as that, you are unworthy of such pity. Rather we will hunt you like the animals you are. There is a reason humanity has carried us to the forfront of the animal kingdom. The lesser beasts, lacking it, are unable to think beyond their own needs, and will ultimately abandon each other. Makes them easy to dominate.
ZoneVortex
09-10-03, 06:24
Originally posted by JackScratch
OK, so youre what, like 12? No realy. 15 tops. Laugh it up, enjoy. Kinda like a last meal.
Why do people always go for insulting age first? Even if he was 12-15, he'd just laugh at you more for saying that idiotic comment.
JackScratch
09-10-03, 07:50
Sorry Zone, I went for clever but these guys dont seem to know the big words, you know like 5 letters or more.
I think the whole SL thing is BS.
Somebody attacks you in a 'warzone' and you defend yourself successfully and loose a massive amount of SL and faction sympathy
That just simply sucks
(probably it is better if somebody attacks you to just lay down and die)
You go to bunker and kill cyclops, you are supposedly in a 'warzone', some idiot is so greedy to get a kill and jumps right in front of you to get the kill with his claw or whatever, bang, you kill the idiot and who get's punished for his stupidity, you do. You loose SL and Faction Sympathy
this sucks so badly
JackScratch
09-10-03, 08:07
Uh, OK, your post is frought with errors chick. You dont lose SL (or anything else for that matter) in a warzone. Bunker is not a warzone it is an anarchyzone. You only lose SL for killing none hostile factions in an anarchyzone. And bunker wouldnt be anyof those if it werent where PK happy morons hunt runners.
quote:
KimmyG
@wench not to bad an idea somewhat like UO's caos order system But I could still see the same problem with the LE
Oh what after I leave the clan I cant get back in for a few days
Or suppose some asshole wants to stop the spawn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes u cant back in the clan for a few days ... and then u have to pay to join ... wouldnt that deter you from leaving in the first place ?
re: stopping spawning ... how about if an unclanned runner stopping the spawn had 5 minutes in that area before they became killable and would be until they left, this makes it possible to get rid of them if they are causing a problem, also, as soon as he is dead the spawn starts.
quote:
Voodoochicken
Possible changes.
-Only lose faction sympathy in one faction per kill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i kinda like that idea
quote :
NeoChick
You go to bunker and kill cyclops, you are supposedly in a 'warzone', some idiot is so greedy to get a kill and jumps right in front of you to get the kill with his claw or whatever, bang, you kill the idiot and who get's punished for his stupidity, you do. You loose SL and Faction Sympathy
this sucks so badly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmmmmm how about teamed members not being able to cause any damage to each other ?
the running in front of you happens wherever u hunt and is annoying at times but this would encourage more teaming
the whole soul light issue is a bad one ... soul light is lost far too easily, i frequently lose over 100 soul light from someone just being there and not being targeted, last week i went from 100 down to -14 in about 10 seconds and there was no one else from the factions i had supposedly killed in the zone and there were no backpacks either there should be a protection against accidental hits, possibly the soul light hit being related to the amount of damage you actually do to a runner. for instance 1 sl point for every 10 health u take from a neutral or allied runner and nothing for hostiles (in the interests of the roleplay aspect)
QuantumDelta
09-10-03, 15:37
Wench...
Please, for the love of god use [.quote] [./quote] (without the .'s)
Neo hun they're right about mb too...all anarchy zonage there...
Technocrat
09-10-03, 16:54
Maybe all this debate would matter if death had any real consequences in this game. As it stands, it does not.
The system should be self regulating. It should not depend on an artificial limiter like SL to influence behavior. There should be natural, in-built consequences for your actions that help regulate the way people play. Something that will make someone stop to think, "Do I really want to do this?"
I'll assume a PKing situation in an Anarchy Zone since this is a thread about Soul Light and other PvP venues de-emphasize SL in one way or another.
If one is PKed or killed by a mob there aren't any real consequences for the dead character. At worst you will lose an item from your QuickBelt and have to run out and retrieve it. This penalty has even been lessened with the addition of the "safe slot" on the QB. Also, you'll have to have whatever implants that were knocked out reimplanted. These items rank no higher than "minor inconvenience" and provide no real pause for any player.
Consequently, players are rather cavalier about their behavior in-game. They'll run through dangerous area with barely a second thought. They do things just to see if they can. And they will kill, safe in the knowledge that they're both not doing anything terribly bad to their victim and not terribly dangerous to themselves if they become a target.
Now, if Reakktor were to adopt stiffer penalties for character death I think the whole SL and PKing aspects of the game would change for the better.
Consider what would happen if a character lost five to twenty-five percent of his experience in all skills and his entire carried inventory every time he died. Experience loss could be based on a formula that takes into account the relative ranks of the killer and victim so that the higher the rank of the killer above the victim the less XP the victim looses. There should also be modifiers for faction, Soul Light, and other miscelaneous items.
This would inject some meaning into SL and faction hostility. Sure you could go around ganking people at random, but at what price. If you made yourself unpopular enough and became a target it wouldn't take long for your rank to bottom out at newbie level. Also, with the threat of major XP loss, you'd put far more thought into your actions. Do you really need to be in Pepper Park? Does it really make sense to yell about that SPY hacking your Warbot?
With real consequences, having negative Soul Light actually becomes somthing to worry about. With your red name you'd stand out like a sore thumb. People would go out of their way to gank you, just to see if you're carrying anything interesting. Roving bands of JackScratch-style vigilantes go from laughable to a real concern for the would be evil-doer.
Roleplay would be enhanced since the killing of faction enemies would have a real impact on the fighting strength and production capacity of the enemy faction. "Hey, Joe_Bob_CST, our best constructor, is going out of the city. We had better assign him a guard!"
Until changes like these are implemented (with proper consideration given to balance), all the bitching, whining, and pontificating about Soul Light, PKing, and RPKing are moot. It really just doesn't matter. So you got shot in the back or jumped by five people or sniped. Big deal. Suck in that lip, recall your pack, and get back out there. It won't be the last time.
Voodoochicken
09-10-03, 16:54
Oh, you can keep hunting zones if you like (since I don't even know/care where they are) :)
***
As far as the -1 SL for killing friendlies in Warzones goes - I was assuming that clanwars would be implemented at some point.
But, you could change the word "friendly" to "same faction".
ie. In warzone:
Same faction kill -1 SL
Though I doubt you kill 100s of friendlies at op wars, I had forgotten about City Mercs (but really, they should be neutral instead of friendly).
***
As far as implants not falling out encouraging res killing - heh?
People will just have to consider if it's better to GR than wait to be safely resurrected by a friendly (considering that SI should wear off faster).
The fact that your implants will already be damaged before you get resurrected might make some people think twice about lying around at an op war hoping their PPU will res them.
Plus.. imo, it's wrong that being resurrected means there was no penalty for dying.
***
Unable to implant LE after xx/20:
It's a low lvl, so if you did take it out (and decided you'd made a mistake by doing so) it would be very easy to reroll and re-lvl.
Once you get to ranks like xx/40 or more, then you should be able to cope with being killed occassionally.
***
"Eash" - Well, I don't know what this means. :)
***
Effect of negative SL:
Maybe make it so your name appears red at a higher SL instead.
eg.
SL > 32; name = green; 100% reward*
0 < SL < 32; name = yellow; 90% reward*
-16 < SL < 0; name = orange/red; 75% reward*
SL < -16; name = red/black; faction changed to "Danger!"/"Wanted"; increased QB drops begin; 50% reward.*
More penalties to reward at every extra -16 SL. ie -32, -48, etc., to minimum of 10% reward.
*% reward applied after rank adjustments, etc.
[edit] In response to the above post, I think it would be easier/more acceptable if SL had an effect on reward money from killing mobs. I'll edit my above list to include possible suggestions.
It makes sense that criminals would get paid less[/end edit]
JackScratch
09-10-03, 18:31
It was Technocrats intent to insult me, however he failed. The main problem I have with RPKing or faction kills, is that there is no real effect. Im not talking about player based effects on other players, Im talking about player based effects om the world. In CS you have a goal which is completely opposed the the game based goals of your oponents. You have to confront them to achieve the goals of the game. If a Member of NEXT ganks every member of TG 10 times, what effect does that have on the world, NEXT, or TG. There is no real motive, only a weak excuse to have fun at someone elses expense. Meanwhile, there are many many other things to do in NC, many of which can effect the world, one player at a time. If NC were structured in such a way that our actions could actualy effect and control the game, then I would perhaps reconsider my feelings on the PKing issue, depending on the spacifics of implimentation. In the meantime, the real NC which is not likely to change is fine the way it is, there are a few changes I might would like the Devs to make, but am unconcerned with them makeing them, as I feel strongly that I can cause them through gameplay. I can take part in the makeing of a better system, without a single line of code. I can spread my beliefs like a virus. I can politic and convince people that they can make a difference. I can lead by example and influence. I can guide the persecution of those who refuse to abide by simple rights and conciderations. You think a good PvPer is powerful, wait till you see what interaction, teamwork, and co-operation can do.
Wench...Please, for the love of god use [.quote] [./quote] (without the .'s)
sorry :( that better ?
another soul light thought, how about if you kill a runner and receive the soul light drop according to their soul light ? e.g. if u have soul light 50 and they have 30 you lose 30 ? the exception being no gain or loss if the runner is already negative
killing runners in anarchy zones becomes a bigger risk as you have no idea of the consequences to you. you may get away with it or you may not. people who regularly kill each other would have a relatively low soul light to start with so in theory the loss would be a lot less. also making new runners have a soul light of 100 (or just a high figure) could possibly deter people from killing them just because they arent powerful enough to defend themselves.
each kill would be a kind of lottery and you may or may not take a big hit depending on you opponent, but this also gives people who want to protect their soul light a fighting chance to retaliate, rather than thinking 'no im not fighting back i want to keep my soul light'
based on who you attack decides how much you lose.
JackScratch:
i saluted you before - i'm bowing down to you now.
wench:
sounds good. i personly would still want harsher penaltys for masive -sl though (i.e. there dna being wiped off the gen-reps so if you die when your -x sl, you don't come back etc.).
but the idear you put is simple and would work, i think.
how about gaining soul light if the target is in -sl ?
Originally posted by JackScratch
OK, so youre what, like 12? No realy. 15 tops. Laugh it up, enjoy. Kinda like a last meal. How long did you think it could last? There are a lot of problems with this game that I cant do anything about, but you arent one of them. In fact I dont see you and your kind as a particularly dificult problem. If your PvP is as bad as your debate skills, then you wont be particularly dificult to deal with one on one, but rest assured, I have no intention of offering something as noble as that, you are unworthy of such pity. Rather we will hunt you like the animals you are. There is a reason humanity has carried us to the forfront of the animal kingdom. The lesser beasts, lacking it, are unable to think beyond their own needs, and will ultimately abandon each other. Makes them easy to dominate.
Sorry but im showing the reaction that every PKer has ever time they see words like that launched.
Now Age Factor?
I laugh at threats, I PK people and enjoy it regardless of rank.
How does this make me 10 years old?
Look at the so called mature players that get pked and there reaction
They respond with
Racsist
Homophobic remarks
Filthy remarks regarding ones parents
Run to the board and demand that the game eb changed or to kick "The little fucking kiddies out of the game".
Are these the reactions of a mature adult what is more childish to PK someone or thrown a tantrum after getting killed lauch all forms of profanity?
JackScratch
10-10-03, 00:15
OK Kimmie, first of all I notice no claim to be an adult ther, so I dont realy expect you to understand that good spotsmanship, fair play and good behaviour are things you are supposed to learn by adulthood. That of course is not the case even half the time, but i9s almost the never the case before adulthood.
Youre thread is the one asking for the game to be changed, not mine, in fact my side of the arguement is that it is fine the way it is, is that mature enough for you? I dont want KK to kick the Kiddies or the PKers, I intend to do it myself, not as fast as I would like, but what the hell, gives me something to do. I dont make comments in or out of game that meet any of those descriptions, though I have been guilty of baiting people that offend me psychologicly, an age old tactic, vary effective.
So Kimmie, where you going with this? Some people who are not me but may or may not agree with me behave poorly so what I am saying is wrong?
Originally posted by JackScratch
Youre thread is the one asking for the game to be changed,
Not so muched changed, but returned in some way to its original form.
You say you want to end pks well should you meet me in say a hunt zone or should u be a neutral or allied faction and I land 2 kills on your party. You wont be getting to much vengence because I will leave because of SL that is what this post is about I will retreat to a safezone cause of SL and ur crusad will be over that is what this post is about.
--> edit--> Technocrat: i don't know how i missed your post, but i just saw it now and agree with you about the consecence idear, it means that you can be an outlaw but you would have to live an outlaw life style - if you can't do the time, don't do the crime, kinda thing. -->end edit-->
Originally posted by KimmyG
Sorry but im showing the reaction that every PKer has ever time they see words like that launched.
Now Age Factor?
I laugh at threats, I PK people and enjoy it regardless of rank.
How does this make me 10 years old?
i think he might be refering to mental age, which to be honest the higher the better in any situation
Look at the so called mature players that get pked and there reaction
They respond with
Racsist
i have never done this - and only thick twats would.
Homophobic remarks
again, not gulty - btw... anything i choose to do in this game (rightly or wrongly) dus not make me gay or a "fag" - now, if i was to stick my cock up another blokes ass, then that would make me gay (and IF i wanted to do so... then it would be no bodys busines but my own - ok the other bloke would have a say). so homophobic slurs have absoulutly no impact on me at all - because there not ofencive, there just incorect.
Filthy remarks regarding ones parents
agh... confeshion time i'm afrade..
i must admit i have said things like "mo-fo", i have also suggested that some peaple have also had sexual experiances with the following ; cats,dogs,hampsters,chickins,vegtables,ants,there own hand and sea slugs.
but i have always made shure that the insults are ones that are "in charictor" and have never (intentionly) insulted someone about there real life person - no mater how angry about it i get.
Run to the board and demand that the game eb changed or to kick "The little fucking kiddies out of the game".
Right on!
because the game has so much and is made unplayable by so little. it's like a game of chess where one player takes 3 hours to make the first move and the second player makes his first move by picking up his king and waveing it about makeing airoplane noises, knocks all the first players peaces off the table while shouting "BOOM! BOOM! your dead!".
Are these the reactions of a mature adult what is more childish to PK someone or thrown a tantrum after getting killed lauch all forms of profanity?
so you DO have a consept of just how thease much peaple get upset by your actions (in RL) but you still can't see why you shouldn't be having fun at the expence of hurting peaples feelings?
well, in that case you might as well be; Racsist, Homophobic and insulting because it takes the same amount of ignorance and stupidity to be like that than it dus to willfuly emotionly hurt someone just for fun - you must have a string of faild relationships in your life if you get a kick out of hurting peaple.
have you thought about geting counceling?
- thats what i'd say to any PKer who has that reaction, if they were silly enuf to put them arguments forward.
it's a good job that you were only showing the reaction of other peaple, cos else this post might be offencive to you. :)
JackScratch
10-10-03, 00:58
You realy dont get it do you? Are you going to stay in that safe zone? forever? And if so, how are you going to PK? Dont you understand? This is not just my crusade. There are many out there who feel as I do, and we occupy a great deal of space. Try to imaginf if you can, you go to hunt but because you are an RPKer, word has gotten around to all the "carebears" that you are an RPKer. And everywhere you go, you are see, and hunted. Ever seen Return of the Jedi? Enough "carebears" can be a real problem. So here is the story, You PK, you leave a safe zone, you die. You leave again, you die. And there will be no fair fighting, this is a hunt, and you are the prey. You fight without dignity, so you die without dignity, and the only way to stop it, is to hide in the safe zones. And as for SL, well Im not looking for a fight, we will each do our part, and my SL can recover while the next group gets a piece of you. How long do you think you would enjoy this?
I get I have heard that 100x over and over. Logically though its a big world and it is my choice who to fight the majority of the time I can hit MB fast abd by the time word gets around if I want I can be long gone by the time the crusaders get there. Leave a saf zone? there are dozens of places to drop in on and no way to track them getting me leaveing a safe zone is pure luck. Unless it is pepperline. Still your disscussion is to In game RP wich is fine I think and HOPE.
@wardivich
mental age is over rated.
And you would be amazed at what the coolest and most mature level of player will succumb to. Just be glad the majority of pkers arnt losers that make reports about what is said ingame . Like some players do when someone directs and insult at them.
and as regards to the little kiddie remark it was more towards how dum others are that assume banning under 18 players would accomplish anything seeing as lots of pks aer over 18.
Also what would the world be like without the evil,murderss villians? It would be lame. What would the game be without hated villians I say they are as much apart of the game as RPers and PvMers. Even the beloved carebears have there evil villian to fight who they fought and didn't cry nerf. Ironic that those little teddy bears have more balls than most of you.
I would like to see a neocron carebear though
"NERF NOHEARTS PENDANT"
I think I got it right I havn't seen the show in a while.
JackScratch
10-10-03, 05:06
I cant even begin to express how screwed up that is. Wait, yes I can. Tell me how important villians are when your uninsured car gets stolen. This "Im a badguy cause the world needs badguys" crap isnt just bullshit, it's stupid bullshit. Your goal as a member of the human race should be to make the human race better, besides, even the lamest badguy has some semblance of a motive. (OK not true, I saw Titanic, and there are others, and the movie always sux because of the lack of motive). In stories, real life, it doesnt matter, the badguy is some selfish shit who has rationalised what they do. Just like you morons, and just like you morons, they make the world around them suck. And just like the rest of us, the badguys are only allowed to get away with it, till the masses say "Im mad as hell, and Im not going to take it anymore. You arent roleplayers, you arent actors, you are inconsiderate pricks.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 05:28
Hunting zones;
Chaos / Cristal Caves.
Graves.
Gaia Mine.
Point Red Storage.
Worm Tunnels.
All Sewers.
All Cellars/Abandoned Rooms.
seem so bad? leaves the majority of the wastelands to be PKable in.
Apart from people who have to prove their power by picking on the weak.
JackScratch
10-10-03, 05:50
Well, it seems my posting has earned me a fan club. Leveling on Saturn this evening I was informed in local "jackscratch, you carebear son of a bitch, if I catch you outside a safezone, youre dead" Strangely this individual, whom I did not see, failed to follow me the 3 steps I took into the nearby Aggie cellar. You are right to be scared, ew are comeing for you. But attacking me will do you no good, the seed is planted. You might could even grief me out of the game, but this is bigger than me. I am simply the messenger for a group who is tired of being used for the amusement of others. The message is "your days are numbered."
Damn... If there were my kids... I would spank them...
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
seem so bad? leaves the majority of the wastelands to be PKable in.
And that majority is empty.
" In stories, real life, it doesnt matter, the badguy is some selfish shit who has rationalised what they do"
Yes true thats the point.
Imagine world with out villians
James Bond without Spectre
Austin Powers without Dr. Evil
The Terminator without the Terminator
Badman without the joker
Jerry without Newman
Indianna Jones without the ************s
It would be a boring place
So why neocron without PKs.
QuantumDelta
10-10-03, 06:39
'Cron without PK.
Hmm.
*Shrugs* Makes no different to me, I mainly play my PPU now... someone trying to PK him has to be just plain stupid...
As for my PE, Stealth, and PvMing in PvP Armor makes that a tough Job too.
Tank..................... I play my tank......?
I hate tanks......
sorry.. another LONG post, but please try and read it :)
Originally posted by KimmyG
mental age is over rated.
i beg to difer.
And you would be amazed at what the coolest and most mature level of player will succumb to. Just be glad the majority of pkers arnt losers that make reports about what is said ingame . Like some players do when someone directs and insult at them.
well, i think you'll find that peaple that get put in a situation where thay feel there is no way of fighting back will result in other ways that thay can (it's why terrorism exists in RL) - if the person who is pick'd on and buly'd, thay can't use (in-game) violence so thay use verbal violence, prehaps the thought is that if there's no way you (the attacker) can defend against verbal abuse you might know what it's like for them. (just sumiseing there though).
i strongly belive that if you were to give a reason for the kill, you would get a lot less abuse as it shows the target person that your doing more than playing CS - btw the excuse "your not my fraction so I R kill U" is the worse excuse to give, because it shows that you have not thought about your actions and have just come up with the minimum posable excuse to do it.
next time you RPK, try makeing up a sinario around it - prehaps if you want to be a weird psyco kinda of searal murder, stalk the victim abit, make creepy (in game) coments then after if thay ask "why?" or start with an insult straight away (cos thev'e used to there not being a reason why) you can make more creepy coments like "it's your hair.. i wanted to stroke it, so i took some.... just like mother used to do" - not only would you get less agro from peaple, but you would also gain propper "villian" status... you could even end up on the cover of the neocronical if you did a good enuff job of it.
another example would be: say that you want to have a gangster - set up a road block, anyone that wanders into "your" terortry, you say to them "pay your dues or i'll cut you!". that way the target dusn't feel abused in an out of game way - he/she can say (in game) that thev'e just been mugged (so in return for the person being a victim, thay get something to roleplay about).
please, just try it a couple of times and see if you get less greaf, who knows? you might even find it more fun to do than just "point and click" fighting.
and as regards to the little kiddie remark it was more towards how dum others are that assume banning under 18 players would accomplish anything seeing as lots of pks aer over 18.
which is one of the reasons why i think mental age is NOT over rated
Also what would the world be like without the evil,murderss villians? It would be lame. What would the game be without hated villians I say they are as much apart of the game as RPers and PvMers. Even the beloved carebears have there evil villian to fight who they fought and didn't cry nerf.
your right, a game world without villians would lack something (i strongly disagree about that concept in RL though)
but there is a big difference between a proper villian and some one killing anthing thay posably can, because thats the game thay like to play.
so, if i were to make a "fagen" charictor up, i could level with it, and using multiple accounts i could make up other charictors and use them to steal other peaples stuff (on the premis of fixing/resing/constructing etc.) and then give all the loot to mr fagen, delite the charictor and make a new one. to repeat the process. (prehaps even joining a clan and then steeling everything in the clan apart).
what would you think? after all, it would be a villian.
or do you think haveing everyone in a state of confution about who to trust would destroy team work, and therefore destroy elements of the game.
or what if i was to make a vandle, who's soul purpus was to destroy any and all unatended veacles that thay came about? that to would be a villian, but if it became popular (or i was realy efective at doing it), then the overal effect would be to make it so there is no point having veacles (exsept the next epic V.25), well you could have them, but you couldn't take them any where where there wasn't a garage.
Ironic that those little teddy bears have more balls than most of you.
I would like to see a neocron carebear though
"NERF NOHEARTS PENDANT"
I think I got it right I havn't seen the show in a while.
lol :)
JackScratch
10-10-03, 14:50
The cereal killer is rare, there arent many. If you had a whole city full of them running around then I think the charm would wear off. The kind of motives Im looking for are relatively noble ones. My clan needs OPs, that clan is hogging all the WBs, lets issue a chalange and get them to stop. He is an RPKer, he has got to go. These are all motivated attacks. Also, this death to everyone lower rank that me, from behind bullshit has got to stop. I mean realy, my 1 chev tank on saturn got it from behinf from a tank in PA yesterday in the aggie sewers. His reason, I PKed his alternate. Yeah I PKed her, she ganked me and 3 others from behind, no warning, no words. His response when confronted with this,"Oh, I was drunk, I dont remember." Asshole, people like that are ruining this game, not "carebears".
This game is supposed to be about conflict, not murder, it's supposed to be political, instead it is diluted down to simple kill or be killed. Oh please, just because you are smart enough to ujnderstand the games basi concept, dont take it out on the rest of us. You know, yesterday, there was a character on pluto, my clan had been hunting and all of a sudden a nearby player got 5 stacks of poison. Out of no where. We soon realised who the sneaky culprit was, but as there had been no death (not for lack of effort I think) we kinda let it slide. There had ben an incedent where someone had killed a drom and we had joked around about not killing them , I even tried to rez a drom. Then the poison guy attacked one. Techno told him not to and he asked him why. Techno said "because the droms are sacred omong our people" we had a good laugh about that. Then, right away the guy starts killing droms. So we chased him down and killed him. You want a motive for kills, he was being a dick, he needed killin. As noble a motive as there is. Im not suggesting that there should not be PvP.
But if your only excuses for doing it are "He was a faction enemy." or "I play a bad person, there has to be bad people for the game to be fun." Then realy, do go play CS, its not just a repeated retort, that is the game for you, made for you. It is exactly what you are looking for. All death all the time. No trade skills to fuck it up. No dirty safe zones or soul light to screw it up for you. Realy, Im not just saying this, it's true. Go play CS, cause you arent wanted here.
Originally posted by wardivich
"your not my fraction so I R kill U" is the worse excuse to give,
I think it is a good excuse
History
In 2722 the Twilight Guardian is founded by Hagen Yager and Lioon Reza, who met three years before. Only two years later, after numerous guerilla strikes against the PSI Monk government forces and not too few terrorist strikes within the city, they reach their goal of overthrowing the government and chasing the monks out of the city. In the turmoil of the coup Reza succeeds in seizing control over CityAdmin and closing his grip on the city. In 2726 Yager decides to reform the rebel organization and again takes up the fight. Today, after a life which for the last half has consisted of more or less constant fights, Yager knows that he is running out of time if he still wants to achieve his goal.
Guerilla and terror strikes, so killing every none allied runner and every runner that does not agree with is a terror assulat and a tactic used by many rebels in and around the world.
According to u guys I couldn't just play my random PK style of game and if I wanted to be the big bad roleplayer I couldn't do that either. Only thing I couldn do is play some lame style of crap play.
@jackscratch
"This game is supposed to be about conflict, not murder, it's supposed to be political, instead it is diluted down to simple kill or be killed"
Go talk to a copbot and they will tell you its listen or be killed so its either live with CA rules or kill them or they will kill you.
JackScratch
10-10-03, 18:52
You know Kimmie, that's my point. The plot is an excuse, a piece of shit, un involved, worthless, half assed excuse to do what you want to do and no one can tell you you can't. It doesnt even come close to being a motive, it's just an excuse. It's something that you can say, when someone points out your bad behaveior, "well its the way the game is supposed to be." You cant come up with anything better than that? Of course I guess you don't have to. You aren't trying to convince anyone but yourself. You will always be the easiest person to fool. You wont change till it suits you, because you are the only thing that you are concerned about. Im thinking of everyone, every single person gets what they want with my plan, but yours caters to the only person that matters, you, and anyone else that happens to agree, well thats just gravy. Im giveing you the rules for a game everyone can enjoy, but of course it asks for a concesion from you, and that isnt in your game plan is it. You have decided what it is, and what it shal be, and like all those like you in the world, no one can tell you otherwise.
I have used the word inconsiderate repeatedly in this string, have you thought about that word? What the word means. I want everyone to enjoy the game, you want you to enjoy the game. Have you looked carefully at the side you are argueing for? Have you noticed that your actions make people, reasonable people, unhappy? Do you care? Have you thought about the other people who play the game? what they want? How it affects you? How you affect them? And what conclusion would you arive at if you did? Would it be the right one? Would it be the considerate one? Once again, We arent asking you to take the PvP from the game. Just the injustace, now realy, is that too much to ask? And if it is too much to ask, what kind of person does that make you, in or out of the game?
IM just pointing out the story line and the whole point of the game not trying to convince myself. I dont RP
I pk cause
I can
Makes me feel better and raises my self estem
I like to laugh at n00bs
I like to read there enraged text spam and safeit for some late night reading
I like listen to anti-pks tell me I will end up qutiing cause they wont let me leave the safe zones
I like to get 3-5 people and gank 1 person and laugh 3vP is my motto.
It may be lame,cheap,unsportsman like and unfair. But to put it frankly I dont give a flying fuck.
But this post is still to do with peoples opinion on how 5 minute battles that end cause of SL hits, instead fo lasting a lot longer with won side winning instead of retreating helps this game out.
JackScratch
10-10-03, 19:31
Hey Kimmie, it's my job to make you look bad, youre not allowed to do it yourself. So just cut that out. No, like realy, if you mean all that, you probably aught to consider seeking profesional counceling. "He's a very disturbed little boy." - Cartman
I have to say this is the last bastion of those who have lost an arguement. " Fine, youre right, OK, are you happy?!?!?!?". To answer your implied question, yes, it won't be long now.
I may stop posting if you are going to do all my work for me.
JackScratch
10-10-03, 19:31
Hey Kimmie, it's my job to make you look bad, youre not allowed to do it yourself. So just cut that out. No, like realy, if you mean all that, you probably aught to consider seeking profesional counceling. "He's a very disturbed little boy." - Cartman
I have to say this is the last bastion of those who have lost an arguement. " Fine, youre right, OK, are you happy?!?!?!?". To answer your implied question, yes, it won't be long now.
I may stop posting if you are going to do all my work for me.
Well ur debating PK - antipks and overall morals and ethics. IM talking about should player waring players be taking SL hits PK, non pk or clan vs clan.
Dribble Joy
10-10-03, 20:05
Hmmmm.
I'm vaguely surprised this thread hasn't been closed, but never mind.
Kimmy, you are trying to explain that you want something done so that fighting can occur between people without haveing to stop every five minutes?
That you consider the current hunting zones rules to be OK?
From what I have seen in this 'discusion' people seem to be missing the point entirely.
Places like MB, TH, TG I think SL loss should be tiny/non-existance for killing neutrals and enemies over a cirtain level.
They are places for experienced runners no?
Same in any other anarchy zone.
Jack, put some spaces in your posts, and use the enter key occationally. I'd say something about your rather offensive forum... methods, but I can't be arsed, other than to point out that it does you no favours.
@ dribble joy
Yes I think you get my points once you look past pk and anti pk RP, I dont like pks and the poor aggy cellar people posts.
This thread is about mostly MC-5 being a hunt zone wich I think is rediculos if there is only one and everyone wants a peice of it. As TG i have gone there with friends to fight and sometimes find mercs from a large merc clan farming there, so were enemy and I would like to get mc5 parts so we fight now I have had to leave there 2-3 times cause because of fighting over the place I have hit -14 SL I think that is BS. Also I feel caos caves,cyrstal caves and swamp caves being hunt zones is ridiculos but overall I realy hate MC5 being huntzone because if your there you are no n00b.
Also this is about fighting the merc NAP FA clans and some of the neutral or crahn or FA clans that have attacked me and my friends. We have gotten into fights at TH and other places and everytime no one wins cause of loseing SL. Fight lasts 5 mins and then its time to leave cause of being near red SL.
I feal these SL factor really harm high lvl pvp and in doing so harm the game. I would still like to see how the 2 situations above aid this game?
JackScratch
11-10-03, 03:44
I feel that the game is fine the way it is. I hate all this changeing crap. You just about get things figured out and they change something, but does that fix it, noooo, something else has to be changed. Why dont you people try to solve your problems yourself?
KRIMINAL99
11-10-03, 04:23
Originally posted by JackScratch
I feel that the game is fine the way it is. I hate all this changeing crap. You just about get things figured out and they change something, but does that fix it, noooo, something else has to be changed. Why dont you people try to solve your problems yourself?
The games not fun anymore. It used to be. All the real incentives/rewards in the game are now aquired from static unchanging mobs which makes the game like a One player game that you would buy beat in a few hours and then never play again or at least not for 6 months to a year - where multiplayer is included nearly just as a novelty to compare your item/stat/skill against another player.
Those same incentives used to be able to be aquired from pvp where other player provided a much more fun and engaging obstacle to the wealth. Also you were risking a decent amount of wealth in pvp which together made it an adrenaline pumping experience.
Lets put it this way... You can pvp for like 5 or 10 minutes and then you get bored of it (maybe even not that much). Yet you fight stupid, unchanging rediculously easy mobs for hours on end why? To get experience and wealth... that alone makes fighting mobs somewhat "fun". Now if you got wealth and experience from fighting players (but random and not too much at once, not too little) who are also much more fun to fight, imagine how much more fun that would be. Thats how the game was before.
Only reason it was changed was because Noobs that swarmed the game at the beginning of retail took out the LE before they were ready, then all falsely claimed consiensous objector status to KK as an immature defense against being pked by experienced members who knew the ropes. Next thing you know the game is carebared, all the servers are deserted, and 95% of those same newbies are now either gone of boredom or are random pkers themselves.
Now it might be the case that KK didnt mean to encourage rpking that much in the first place and was hoping it would just stick to faction pvp or something. Most likely they have noone who understands or cares about the kinds of things Im talking about, have no decent plan of how to make the game fun again in ways that actually work, and it was just a fluke that the game was ever continually fun as a multiplayer game to begin with. However all they would have to do in order to make the game fun again for experienced community members somehow, anyhow tie wealth and/or xp back into PVP. They might even do it by accident and not realize how much of a good effect itll have on the game.
It doesn't have to be anything like it was the way before. Theres a million ways how like having OPS make rares instead of mobs drop them, or get a large percent of your income from a salary based on your faction sympathy (and then give it a much bigger range and give you more points for defending OPS pking enemy members etc.)
But right now they are just making it worse and worse... Is MC5 really a Hunt zone now? All I have to say is this.. 3 years of development + 1 year of running development = max 1 month of player interest. You want to run a monthly charged based game and have it be worth a crap then you make it player interaction based. Ive about had my fill of giving away free money to a company because for about 3 or 4 months they had a decent online game.
quote by Vodoo chicken:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I have morals in real life, but play as a neocron runner with less morals.. .well, I can see how that is clearly not roleplaying.
Whereas, if I was a whiney bitch with super-duper-morals in RL, and chose to play my neocron runners with exactly the same personality/morals, then.. .why, of course, I can see why that is roleplaying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roleplaying does not mean play yourself. Roleplaying means playing a role, any role. Anyways don't people usually have more fun roleplaying the OPPOSITE of what they are irl? And even if you were roleplaying yourself you wouldnt chill with enemy gang or faction members especially not when you were both equipped with weapons. Most of the people here talking about "pking is not roleplaying" seem to have very little depth of imagination or related experience either one regarding the situations involved. Think about all the propaganda involved, how this person most likely killed your brother as part of a mission, you might have grown up with your faction etc... Killing enemy gang members on sight is something that is done in real life, where death is permanent.
i would of posted sooner, but i had to go in for some more treatment, it turns out that the cansor in my leg has started to spread up my back bone - which is why i'm starting to loose control of my hands / finger movement. - so from my perspective this is a bit of a moot point now. (something else for you to laugh at KimmyG, that should make you feel better and raise your self estem)
reading the posts that iv'e missed - it seems like it all comes back down to what peaple think the game is and/or should be.
untill you can come together and decide (if some of you can cope with compramise) then there's verry little point in even discussing what change there should be (including DoY).
"i wish you a happy noel, be it heven or hell, the christmas we get we deserve"
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.