View Full Version : Stiffer penalties for attacking neutral/allied runners
Andronicus
01-10-03, 19:10
Its getting pretty lame the amount of runners that ruin any last remaining role play aspect this game has by attacking those who are neutral or even allied to them because they want to 'join in' whatever the current fight is. If you don’t like a certain faction - join that factions enemy.
I purpose that every time you help kill someone that your faction is allied / neutral with that you lose your own faction sympathy to the point where you can be 'kicked out' of your faction. And these particular 'no-faction' runners should then be allied or enemies depending on what there current faction sympathies are. And it shouldn't take much to be kicked out of a faction either - the current system makes it far too easy to regain any minor sympathy loss.
Doc Holliday
01-10-03, 19:15
this happens mate. just not in warzones. its why pkers can end up with no faction if they are particularly bad.
It's bad enough. There is no way around clans fighting... Making the penalties stiffer would only make it a pain in the ass for everyone. KK needs to fix the clan war system so neutral/allied clans can fight without soullight loss.
You can always put your LE in.
Andronicus
01-10-03, 19:23
Well then clearly it is still not enough of a deterrent as this game is running rampant with people killing anyone they please.
Andronicus
01-10-03, 19:26
Originally posted by Drake6k
It's bad enough. There is no way around clans fighting... Making the penalties stiffer would only make it a pain in the ass for everyone. KK needs to fix the clan war system so neutral/allied clans can fight without soullight loss.
You can always put your LE in.
Yes - clearly enemy clans should be exempt from this - they have made the conscious decision to be enemies.
But put my LE back in? I didn't say i didn't want everyone to stop fighting me - i enjoy a good OP war adn being in a clan - not to mention the fact that by puting in my LE i will lose another of my vital implants. This will not help promote RP at all which is what this post is about.
The penaties are already stiff enough, you can only kill2-3 neutral/allies until your red. Often times when im pking hostile factions, a neutral will get involved, and I have to kill them too. I think that unless a copbot SEES you kill a neutral/allied, there should be no sl loss. Afterall, when I kill someone in J_05, how the hell does the copbot know?
Originally posted by Hamlet
Well then clearly it is still not enough of a deterrent as this game is running rampant with people killing anyone they please.
Which believe it or not is allowed in the game. However the current system stops the rampant killing, instead lowers it and makes those who go hardcore juicy targets to try and hunt.
Or prehaps you weren't here before the system was in place?
It is fine now. If its not broken don't fix it.
The last thing that PvP people need is more rules imposed by KK.
Andronicus
01-10-03, 19:55
Originally posted by VetteroX
Often times when im pking hostile factions, a neutral will get involved, and I have to kill them too. I think that unless a copbot SEES you kill a neutral/allied, there should be no sl loss. Afterall, when I kill someone in J_05, how the hell does the copbot know?
1. The reason for stiffer penalties isn't so you can't fight back against the neutral - its so the neutral doesn't get involved in the first place
2. Just because a crime isn't witnessed first hand by the police - doesn't mean the police dont hear about it and try to arrest (or in neocron kill) the suspect. If police had to witness every crime in RL to make it a crime this world would be as uncontrolled as Neocron.
Dont get me wrong - I love PVP; its the main reason i spent so long leveling my characters. But the one thing i like more than PvP is Roleplaying - so its nice to know that i can build certain alliances and also depend on those same alliances when it matters most.
But what, for example, if someone from an allied faction is being a tosspot and killing loads of noobs who are allied to you yet enemy to them. Then what do you do eh? Now its fine, you can kill them but suffer some consequences. Any more and you just couldn't be arsed to help out those allied to you from being killed. Wouldn't that be like err..... not roleplay?
I voted no but thats only because of Clan Wars not being implemented. I would agree about allies but not neutral, if clan wars were in the game, lots of our wars end atm jsut b/c like 3 ppl go red even though we are at war with them.
Originally posted by Hamlet
2. Just because a crime isn't witnessed first hand by the police - doesn't mean the police dont hear about it and try to arrest (or in neocron kill) the suspect. If police had to witness every crime in RL to make it a crime this world would be as uncontrolled as Neocron.
um it is how it is in RL; if theres no witness u cant be convicted of a crime. (neglecting evidence because in NC theres no such thing). I've always wondered about that and i think vet has a point; if i were to kill someone in an anarchy zone (note anarchy means lack of order or law) whos gonna know? (the one i kill is dead so he cant be a witness)
perhaps make it as thus: if u kill someone in an anarchy zone, and thers other people around (players, npcs) who then "zone", the game automatically logs it as a "report". So then if u wanna kil people without a SL hit u need to kill the "witnesses". (more realistic). Ofcourse if your teammed with someone then they wont report u, etc.
•Super|\|ova•
01-10-03, 20:36
I'm all for it. There are bunch of retards who say those "OMG UR A FUCKING F6 RPER!!11" and such... they just dont want to accept the fact that this is a RPG, KK has placed us the rules and we should follow them by RPing. These things get fucked up when some genius gets a marvellous idea and attacks an friendly faction guy and kills him. Do not try to create your own RPG here, just follow the RP that KK has set up for us. Imagine what it is when everyone wants to NC to be even just a bit better for themselves and starts to create their own rules with their kind of people. That will just end up to total chaos and disorder. But if we all just compromize we can get some equal and balanced RP aspect in this game as it was meant to be. Amen.
i went on a raid at the MB, i attacked a CM member, but 3 TTs decided to attack me for it, who i had left alone, so what the fuck and i ment to do not attack back? there neutral, but there attacking me so ive got to fight back, you put higher penalties onit then it will fuck up the current balance.
you used to be able to kill EVERYONE with no consequences, back in the day, now that was interesting, at least its a lot easier for you now, you more or less know whos gonna attack you
If I play a sociopath by killing people regardless of faction then I am roleplaying am I not?
By the way as far as I know the current system throws you out of the faction you are in and makes you hostile if you kill too many of your own.
Actually you can also attack neutral SL people ( -1 to -15) without SL loss. At least I did the other day.
So it is possible to fight back in game.
•Super|\|ova•
01-10-03, 20:55
Originally posted by Archeus
If I play a sociopath by killing people regardless of faction then I am roleplaying am I not?
Yes ofcourse but sociopaths should still get punished as in RL. If someone with no sense of morals is running around the world and killing all who he sees then he should be treated like he deserves and punish him in a way that makes him think things over again before killing random people like a madman next time. So the punishment should be harsh enough. The world of neocron is all about corporations and clans working FOR them so this aspect really needs to be fixed.
I think things are ok for allied factions as they are. I think neutrals should have lower penalties (especially because ive been doing all the epics and i know how bitchy getting symp is , its by far the hardest part of the 'paladin' thing)
Dude ... what the hell is with my SL loss ?? even if i have like 40-50 i go to - instantly after killing allied/neutral (though this is only really tested on npc's) Allied i agree with , if you go around shooting your allies you'd expect to suffer a penalty for it.
Neutrals , i think the SL loss should be DRAMATICALLY reduced for this.
also you should only lose SL for being the attacker , if you defend yourself (i.e shoot second) because you cant always avoid fights you shouldn't suffer a penalty. if you dont start it why should you pay the price ? (then of course if you do have an ally betraying you and firing on you , you can hit him right back and suffer no loss) this in effect would stop totally random pvp.
Also how is SL going to work with Doy ??? will doy people shoot negative SL players ??? or should i take a closer look at the system and assume a player freindly to doy is never going to be in the position of ganking a pro-CA faction player and losing SL , therefore the only way for the doy troops to shoot him would be for him to attack pro-Doy players , which would obviously piss them off.
And they do get punished. They get fucked up Sl and factions. SL under or around -32 will rise like one point every 5 hours spent online. So tbh I think that is a pretty bad penalty, considering that if you are killed you will lsoe almost everything in your inventory and will lose the advanage of a Safe Slot.
So I think its fine atm.
Andronicus
01-10-03, 21:08
Originally posted by Leebzie
also you should only lose SL for being the attacker , if you defend yourself (i.e shoot second) because you cant always avoid fights you shouldn't suffer a penalty. if you dont start it why should you pay the price ? (then of course if you do have an ally betraying you and firing on you , you can hit him right back and suffer no loss) this in effect would stop totally random pvp.
If this can be implemented - i would be all for it; You wanna attack me when i am your ally / neutral? fine - just dont penalize me for fighting back.
Originally posted by Judge
if you are killed you will lose almost everything in your inventory and will lose the advanage of a Safe Slot.
yea... eek id forgotten about that... i dont think players who attack someone who is attacking them should suffer a penalty. it should be like runescape where the player who attacked obtained the penalty.
-In RS for 30 mins after attacking a player you had a skull and crossbones over your head and if you were killed you dropped EVERYTHING. The defender would not have to suffer at all, because he was not technically to blame. though I dont think this is the right solution for cron, just if you were wondering.
Originally posted by Leebzie
yea... eek id forgotten about that... i dont think players who attack someone who is attacking them should suffer a penalty. it should be like runescape where the player who attacked obtained the penalty.
Ultima Online had this sort of system and it was so easy to abuse it wasn't funny.
Basically you run in front of someone shooting a monster or something then kill them as they have now been penalised, while if you die you don't loose anything.
The current system is fine. It allows you to whack the occasional idiot without much worry while penalizing those who want kill anything that moves.
Originally posted by Archeus
Basically you run in front of someone shooting a monster or something then kill them as they have now been penalised, while if you die you don't loose anything.
yea I can see where a system like that could fall down.
HELL YEAH!
this would (should) prevent pissed of TG players when they get owned in aggy cellars take their revenge on neutral/allied noobs!
this happened to few days ago in saturn by an ND player :P i bet he musta been a bitter sob :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You do realise that in hunting grounds you lose SL even if you kill enemy people? So you can only kill one person in the aggy cellars, otherwise the cops are after you.
If you think that noob ganking is bad now, you should ask some people about the early retail months.
You can get away with about 2 or 3 kills if I recall.
If the person is yellow or red you get a free pop at them in the hunt zone too.
If they are red anyway they aren't leaving the place alive unless they can go up against copbots.
Shadow Dancer
02-10-03, 00:09
Originally posted by mdares
perhaps make it as thus: if u kill someone in an anarchy zone, and thers other people around (players, npcs) who then "zone", the game automatically logs it as a "report". So then if u wanna kil people without a SL hit u need to kill the "witnesses". (more realistic). Ofcourse if your teammed with someone then they wont report u, etc.
omg I love it. I LOVE IT!
It is nice, but then the person only has to camp say a zone entrance and kill everyone that zones.
okay this is probably a bad idea, but take that witness idea.. im thinking maybe the witness has to get to an NPC like a copbot to tell them directly and they will look out for the person (maybe send hunters if they've killed lots of people).. or if u tell a shop NPC they should contact NCPD, i mean they have phones in the future... dont they? lol... anyway just some feedback
(wheres the dead animal/maybe options... i want to vote maybe but with some tweaks)
I think that it ok as is excpet NO FACTION PPL should be hostile to all not allied&neutral to all
that would make things better imo
a resounding NO! only if kk implement Clan wars first so that enemy clans at war would appear red regardless of faction.
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