BRAINPORT, Faction Alliances

[Stigmata]

Please take the time to read all of this before replying

The current faction alliances are messed up, lots of people have commented on this before.

I would like to see peoples opinions on an idea i have posted before in other threads.

Group A
TG, Crahn And Black Dragon all allied and enemy/neutral to all other factions

Group B
CM Neutral to all except TG/Crahn/BD (they are after all Mercs)

Group C
CA, DRE, TT, NEXT allied to each other and neutral to CM

Group D
FA, Biotech, Tsunami, PP, close allies, enemies/Neutral to A and C

Group E DOY when/if it is implemented they could join group A or just be neutral to Group A and be hostile to Groups C and D (Group B would be debatable as CM could not be neutral to both CA and DOY)

This would make the game so much better in my opinion, it would make the other factions that no body currently plays playable

DRE/PP/BIO no body wants to play Pro city becuase they have every factions and their dog allied to them.

TG is shit becuase your allies are enemy to each other. Same goes for FA and Crahn, CRahns allies are enemies and FA are neutral to most factions.

This is just a sketchy idea the rough edges could be smoothed/altered, but something needs to be done.

I mean what is the point playing protopharm they are allied/neutral to every faction except Next and how many next runners are their on saturn or pluto (cant comment on any other server) er... about 25 on each if that.

Please post your opinions on this idea and if you like it or not, if you do then rate it if you dont then it will sink to the bottom of the forum sea along with the other idea's (REMOVE PARASPAM)

Andy

[Crest]

Having tons of friendly factions / neutrals (Likr protopharm) has advantages, and one is for trade skillers. How easy is it to get my Protopharm barter to offer a service to TG's, FA's and in Neo City.

Yes I can GR to Tech haven, do my work and leave, no one normally raises an eye brow, as for TG Canyon..I was nervous first visit, and then surprised to see the amount of Proto in the area....Hey its a good faction.

As for not wanting to play someone like that. At present I have seen an increase in Proto Pharm players of late

Mercs...Now the mercs are different, being able to kill for hire (As their role is). How can they be hired to kill for a living if they can sustain loses of SL and Faction Symp....

Maybe Neutral to all, and then no loss of Sl when they do a kill

[Dribble Joy]

Originally posted by stigmata
CM could not be neutral to both CA and DOY

Erm why not?
CM is, despite it's somewhat odd stance, a neutral faction, as with FA.
Why should we be forced to take a side.
The NeMas show that DoY has no hard feelings vs. the Mercs and CA is willing to hire them....

Also why isn't NEXT allied to FA in your above ideas?

[Stigmata]

Having tons of friendly factions / neutrals (Likr protopharm) has advantages, and one is for trade skillers. How easy is it to get my Protopharm barter to offer a service to TG's, FA's and in Neo City.

Yes I can GR to Tech haven, do my work and leave, no one normally raises an eye brow, as for TG Canyon..I was nervous first visit, and then surprised to see the amount of Proto in the area....Hey its a good faction.

As for not wanting to play someone like that. At present I have seen an increase in Proto Pharm players of late

Mercs...Now the mercs are different, being able to kill for hire (As their role is). How can they be hired to kill for a living if they can sustain loses of SL and Faction Symp....

Maybe Neutral to all, and then no loss of Sl when they do a kill

good point for a tradekiller, but how many people GR around to every Faction HQ ? but that is for another thread.


Erm why not?
CM is, despite it's somewhat odd stance, a neutral faction, as with FA.
Why should we be forced to take a side.
The NeMas show that DoY has no hard feelings vs. the Mercs and CA is willing to hire them....

Also why isn't NEXT allied to FA in your above ideas?

Well in any war if a side joins/helps/is hired they other side will inevitably hold it against them, surely that is how any fall out occurs.

And as i said this is just a rough idea, the sides could be changed completely this was just how I would like to see it. But why should NEXT be allied to FA ?

[Stigmata]

I guess the idea must of sucked

Andy

[enablerbr]

well i'd rather see neutral faction dropped. simply have it allied or hostile. afterall nobody should be sitting on the fence in NC.
if neutral is to stay then CM would have to be neutral to all factions. despite the probs with BD and CM leaders. we're mercs afterall. so it's all about who pays for our services rather than personnal differnces.

[BiTeMe]

Excellent idea..5 stars
Maybe something for trade skillers but that's another topic if KK ever decided to alter the faction alliances.

[Stigmata]

well i'd rather see neutral faction dropped. simply have it allied or hostile. afterall nobody should be sitting on the fence in NC.
if neutral is to stay then CM would have to be neutral to all factions. despite the probs with BD and CM leaders. we're mercs afterall. so it's all about who pays for our services rather than personnal differnces.


Yeah the neutral thing is annoying for the pvp'ers but the tradeskillers and those not into pvp would need a home.


Excellent idea..5 stars
Maybe something for trade skillers but that's another topic if KK ever decided to alter the faction alliances.

thanks, :) the faction alliances really really need to be changed, as things stand now most large clans are either allied with everyone or enemy to everyone, which just ends up with daft inter-faction fights and SL loss

Andy

grrrr please post a reason why you dislike the idea

[superfresh]

Selfishly speaking...

as an FA I'd like some allies that have some players in them.

As far as storyline goes, I'm not sure why FA would be allied to Tsunami. Biotech and PP make sense. Can't speak for the factions in your other groups.

FA is also supposed to be tight with DoY. Many FA's are holding their breath for it. Making the two hostile would kinda stink.

Less selfishly...

I don't know if all alliances should be an even split. Some players LIKE BD because they have so many enemies. Some players like PP because they don't. Faction choice depends on the type of challenge a player wants.

I do agree that its frustrating 2 of a factions allies can be hostile to each other. Some less dramatic shifting would be nice.

[Ascension]

Originally posted by stigmata

Group B
CM Neutral to all except TG/Crahn/BD (they are after all Mercs)


CM are allied to the factions who have used and paid for there services.. As for Cm neutral to DoY why not?..

[QuantumDelta]

There is actually no real storyline sense in FAs Hostile stance with Crahn/BD, kinda stupid if you ask me.

TT doesn't even have that strong a hostile relationship, because it was mainly caused by an ex TT going FA.

Sad.

Anyway, most relations have storyline sense ones that don't make sense (aren't Explained I mean);

BD/CM
TG/BT (If you look there is actually no reasoning behind it, they should be neutral like PP)
FA/BD
FA/CS

There are a few more "iffy" relationship positions...

FA/NEXT ??
TG/BD (imo anyway...real estate....pfft)
CS/TG (never really explained, mutual enemies just don't cut it for CS)
FA/TS (They share so many enemies, even if those enemies aren't shared for any specific reasons).
FA/CA (because of current storylines)
CA/CM (Neutral..?)

Heh.
Just some stuff imo.
TBH, The DoY's should end up neutral to eachother, or TS/FA vs CS/BD with TG trying to mediate (having an ally+enemy/neutral on one side each).
DoY itself being allied to CS/BD/TG *Possibly* Neutral to FA/TS (unlikely that DoY would be neutral to FA).

Makes a little more sense on that end.
In consequence, FA becomes more polarised >> NEXT become Neutral and CA become Enemy.
BD become neutral to CM and enemy to BT/TT (meh).
CS become enemies with TT or NEXT (or both).
TS become enemies with BT/TT or NEXT.

BT/TT become neutral (still competitive)
NEXT/PP become neutral (still competitive)
CA remains unchanged apart from FA change...or POSSIBLY becoming neutral to TS (yea yea pluto'll hate me for that).


That's about all I can really think of better than yours.

I don't like the way you grouped Fa at all though heh.

[superfresh]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
There is actually no real storyline sense in FAs Hostile stance with Crahn/BD, kinda stupid if you ask me.

I think it was the Crahns that ejected the FA's from the City, back when the Crahns supposedly ruled NC. The FA's buried themselves underground for refuge, resolving to fight fanaticism with technology. Thats what little NC lore I know...

[Stigmata]

FA is also supposed to be tight with DoY. Many FA's are holding their breath for it. Making the two hostile would kinda stink.


where did you come to that conclusion ?

@QD you gotta admit the current faction setup truely sucks.

Andy

[Disturbed021]

Well I think they need to rework the Faction system just a bit and with the release of DoY (eventually:rolleyes: ) that would be the perfect time to rework it. Imo there are too many factions which is why it gets extremely complicated to balance it out.

You have lots of allies who have allies to one and enemies of the other; FA + TG allied, CS enemy to FA but allied to TG, DRE and Next allied to FA but enemy to TG, etc....
And they should have some sort of Traders faction that is neutral to all but cannot obtain OPs, would give pure tradeskillers a Faction to go to.

[RuriHoshino]

Originally posted by Disturbed021
Well I think they need to rework the Faction system just a bit and with the release of DoY (eventually:rolleyes: ) that would be the perfect time to rework it. Imo there are too many factions which is why it gets extremely complicated to balance it out.

You have lots of allies who have allies to one and enemies of the other; FA + TG allied, CS enemy to FA but allied to TG, DRE and Next allied to FA but enemy to TG, etc....
And they should have some sort of Traders faction that is neutral to all but cannot obtain OPs, would give pure tradeskillers a Faction to go to.

And no OP bonuses....no thanks. I break enough rares as it is.

[Disturbed021]

Originally posted by RuriHoshino
And no OP bonuses....no thanks. I break enough rares as it is.

I didn't say no OP bonuses, just said they can not obtain OPs, meaning to control them. If a Faction was created that was neutral to ALL it would be silly to allow them to gain OPs as then a ton of ppl would go to this Faction to just be neutral then there would be no PP fights, etc cause everyone would be neutral :lol:

[RuriHoshino]

Then the Attack/GR would have to be changed so that people in that faction would be unaffected by the settings. Else they would never get any bonus anywhere.

[superfresh]

Originally posted by stigmata
where did you come to that conclusion ?



Killing a City Admin is a part of our epic. The CA are also "staking out" Techhaven. I'm assuming that as an eventual enemy of the city, the FA will be an ally of DoY.

[Kenjuten]

Hello there, I decided to answer and/or clarify some things regarding faction relations.



@ QuantumDelta


From Connections Within The Chran Sect:

"The Fallen Angels' research activities make them an interesting target for the Monks' spy attacks."

I am of the Sect, however I myself have claimed mutual neutrality with the Angels, so long as I am not attacked. For certain reasons, I do not wish to infringe on their right of privacy, peace, or freedom. However it is to be known that the FA are prey for people seeking information, unfortunately...and as it is my faction, I shall also not interfere with its tactics.

"The Sect provides Biotech Industries with valuable information in return for biomedical equipment."

(I however just love implants. ^^ Such a tempting venue, I know...)

From History Within The Fallen Angels:

"In 2633, 62 men and women left Neocron under the leadership of Thomas Cooper..."

Many of Tangent Technologies have jumped ship even long after this primary secession to become Fallen Angels... We may be aware that BT and TT are enemy companies, however still their leaders are linked by blood. But even if that can be debunked, one cannot disagree this:

FA information is tapped into by Chran (and other factions), then the information is leaked to numerous factions, and as cited from Chran to Biotech.

From Connections Within The Black Dragon Clan:

"The Brotherhood of Chran is a valuable source of information."

Sometimes the info doesn't make it all the way to their intended target, and can get leaked to other places as well...

And for the record, members of both TT and BT (among other factions) have went into FA, and as such FA is a common enemy to the brothers.

From History Within The Fallen Angels:

"In 2685 Frederick Lauster of Biotech Industries joined Tech Haven."


Moving on...

Black Dragon and City Mercs are hostile with each other because one of the higher BDs went to CM ...

From VIPs Within The City Mercs:

"Kim "Sushi" Mawong, 31 is the Sysadmin for the mercenaries. This close combat expert turned his back on his former employers, a criminal organization, after losing all hope of becoming Sysadmin there. The City Mercs have promised to protect Kim from possible attacks by his former friends."

From Connections Within The Black Dragon Clan:

"The Clan's hostility with The City Mercs stems from the 'treason' of one of the clan's more important members. This man turned his back on The Black Dragons to become the Sysadmin of the mercenaries, who offer their protection to many legal companies."

...or clients. Permanent protection for Sysadminship is a pretty good deal to say the least. Too bad it costed a lost business venue for CM. Apparently this deal is better to them than dealing with BD.


Next: TG vs. BT

From Connections Within The Twilight Guardian:

"To say that the Cityadmin is the Freedom Fighters' main foe is superfluous. Consequently, all legal (and therefore pro-government) companies within Neocron are also opposed to The Twilight Guardian. These are Biotech Industries, Tangent Technologies, N.E.X.T. Systems, and Diamond Real Estate. These companies employ The City Mercs to fight the rebels."


Fallen Angels Vs. Black Dragon

This is an interesting one... Black Dragon is another benefactor for information from Chran. And where does info from Chran mainly come from?

Yes, it is true that Chran can obtain info from elsewhere...however as cited BD looks to Chran for info, and within Chran's Connections it states that FA is their main information target.


That's it for "Unexplained" Connections...now for the ones that don't seem to make sense.


Fallen Angels Vs. N.E.X.T.

By technicality, the Fallen Angels are rebels. Not FF-TG, persay, but still rebels.

Rebels of any kind are a threat to pro-government business.

Also remember that many scientists, not just from TT, defected into FA.

From Connections Within N.E.X.T Systems:

"A cooperation agreement exists between Tangent Technologies and N.E.X.T. Systems INC."

I'll just let that speak for itself on top of the rest of the points.


Twilight Guardian vs. Black Dragon

I'll not use the Twilight Guardian's Connection info as it is rather ill-defined. The Black Dragon's Connection details it much better.

From Connections Within The Black Dragon Clan:

"Although the organization's relationship to the government and CityAdmin (besides its social effects, its activities on the real estate sector decrease public income), the mafia's business still depends on the current political order, which is endangered by revolutionaries like The Twilight Guardian."

Suffice to say that if there was no government, as much as the BD/CA conflict is, the BD could not be anything. No offense to BD as it is one of my faction's allies, but it does leech off the city for its own gain.

...as does everything else, but eh.


Chran & Twilight

Understand that both CS and TG were exiled by Lioon Reza. They may have idiological differences (TG being democratic and CS being dictorial (or something along those lines anyway... yes, even I don't recall everything within Neocron's history. I'm a relatively new soul. In any case, they're polar opposites)). And yet, even the most opposites can attract for a final cause: To overthrow Reza. Once (and IF...yes, I have little faith at the moment...I'll see what happens in DoY) they do that, then they can battle it out to see what really happens to NC.

The TG needs information as well as resources, both of which Chran is willing to give, within reason of course. They both have their own agendas.


Fallen Angels & Tsunami Syndicate

This is actually something that I have no clue about...I've only been in my Sect for a week or so, and as such I have no real idea on the exact lists in each faction except for my own. I'll hand you this one for now.

My only explanation to this is... the mutants. The mutants are a link, and we take them for granted far more often and grander than we should. *coughReagentscough* Anyway... the mutants.

I'll restate this later, but when it comes to factions, in past history or in present Neocron, usually webs of alliances are so complex that friends of one are enemies of another. The phrase/concept "Friends of my friend are friends of mine, and enemies of my friend are enemies of mine" doesn't apply here. If anyone knows/remembers/learned about WWI, they'll have at least touched on that very example of the events before WWI started.


FallenAngels/CityMercs & CityAdmin: Neutral?

Well, we know FA is basically a defection of scientists from various pro-government companies. FA is ideologically hostile vs. CityAdmin. The epic is the basic blood on the knife on that one. However...

From Connections Within CityAdmin:

"CityAdmin has a neutral stance towards the CityMercs as well as the Fallen Angels. The scientists appear to be reluctant to build a binding cooperation with Neocron."

I left the sentence following that last bit out. This Connection info, like all of the others, is through the eyes of the faction. The companies may have beef with FA, but CA has no reason to be against them. For the same reason as well as the obvious, they cannot be true allies with FA, on the ideological as well as the interest plane. As a result, CA must remain neutral even when provoked, for they do not want to lose the people at FA altogether (if they haven't already).

CityMercs are mercenaries. CA cannot be allied with CM. The web is complex already. If CM had the backing of CA, there would be worse revolutions going on than TG, FA, etc. because CA would be endorsing the companies to basically kill each other off, even with "Protection of Equipment" agreements in place. Reza, CA, much like BD, needs to keep everything as stable as possible. It is your choice to speculate that CA already allows a lot. But imagine if it was actually endorsed. This goes for the red light district and mafias as well.



@ Disturbed021


If I recall correctly, there IS a trader union, it's just not a faction we can pick...perhaps that will change with DoY.



@ enablerbr


Nobody SHOULD be sitting on the fence in NC. Nobody SHOULD be fighting, and there should be peace. No one CAN be at peace, for what we want results in conflict. No one WANTS anything irreversible to happen, and so tries to prevent certain things from occuring as much as possible.



I think I got down all the weirdness that was brought up...thanks for that, this thread gave me more than enough reason to get myself re-researched in the realm of Neocron.

Now all I need is to find and/or create a damn giant chronological timeline...

In related info, I picked neutral on this poll. On the other hand, I don't have any suggestions myself for the future. I will prefer KK...no, Neocron, its people, and the events within (or outside of it), to decide the future. Not a forumpen.

[QuantumDelta]

....Good first post......o.o

[Pill]

cm can be neutral to both ca and doy, they're mercs, they work for the highest bidder.

actally, to make it better, cm alliances,neutrailitys, and enemys should be based on a runners, or cm clans faction sympathies.