View Full Version : Let's make all the classes more useful
With the new weapons and PA's soon coming out, I think the classes are getting much closer balance wise. But the fact remains that none of them are needed he way that monks are. A monk can do everything that needs done in this game. OP wars are won or lost by the number of monks on your side. Here's a few ideas to help make the other classes more useful.
Change RGC's to cut through shields, at least partially. Might hurt pure APU's and spies a bit much, though.
Or, give tanks a debuff cannon. Would need to be powered up (RoF lower than holy AB, and must stand stationary).
Make Dex based items that explode corpses and force the player to choose a GR. Two different TL versions. One low enough for a PE (or a dex imped tank) and one high dex for spies. Difference would be charge time, both still considerably slower than res. Maybe 40 seconds and 25 seconds.
A drone (TL 115-120) that "shot" heals. Make it about as strong as blessed heal when the drone is capped damage. Would have a very short range, and very little armor.
I also think it would be cool to have a debuff drone, kami style.
Although all of these things can be done more efficiently by monks (except the corpse remover), it would be great to lessen the monks load a bit, allow other classes to fill needed roles if you are low on monks.
Jesterthegreat
01-10-03, 12:13
i think dex based armour would make spies and maybe PE's more useful...
also lets be honest... rares... tank = CS, pistol = lib (judge + ROLH possibly), rifle = PE (RoG for some)
some more PVP READY rares would be nice....
[TgR]KILLER
01-10-03, 12:17
Originally posted by hose187
Make Dex based items that explode corpses and force the player to choose a GR. Two different TL versions. One low enough for a PE (or a dex imped tank) and one high dex for spies. Difference would be charge time, both still considerably slower than res. Maybe 40 seconds and 25 seconds.
ow cool.. gibs.. hehe.. well.. i like all the idea's tho. the antibuff cannon sounds cool to.. something like antibuff only for tanks... hmm.. same with the drone.. anti heal for droners.. so monks are a little less NEEDED in OP wars.. thats why i dislike 1 certain clan on pluto.. they got about 2 PPUs for every other player they got haha and we just got 2 ( atm ).. for all
switchback
01-10-03, 12:55
thats why i dislike 1 certain clan on pluto.. they got about 2 PPUs for every other player they got haha
yeah i know that clan
JustIn_Case
01-10-03, 12:56
I think it would hurt roleplay!
Yes: Make all classes important
No: Not by letting all classes do everything.
Justin.....
Your sig.....
http://www.docassist.se/graphics/pictures/Ex2.jpg
Whats a TL 6 Heal ? Has my tank been missing something here ? It's TL 3 no ?
JustIn_Case
01-10-03, 13:06
:eek:
As you can see, i dont use heal spells :D
(time for some PhotoShop work)
Hi,
IMO since the hydrid-nerf and the MC5 imps the game is inbalanced.
I hated the tanks, but these masses of monks now... I am sure this is not how KK wanted to have the game. :(
QuantumDelta
01-10-03, 13:39
However most people will point out that there are not so many monks because monks in themselves are overpowered, it's simply that a few tendancies in the monks on either side of the field are unbalanced (APU Range, PPU Para), also that APU/PPU Naturally compliment eachother.
Can we get a PPU free server?
I'm pretty sure beside some minor tweaks the major balancing problems that keeps the forums flooded for quite a time would be gone...
I agree and i rate the thread 5 stars:
Imagine if Spies could plant a bug on a char and they could hear what they typed. That would be kewl. Or imagine if you had a hack of 150 or so you could hack an apartment and hack a couple of cabs? Or maybe hack a GoGo. There are so many ways to make this game much deeper. Sure expansions like DoY make it better. But for me the world will be big enough then. Start making Each class be important for different reasons. Spies useful for...well spying... Make Vehicles Viable. There are so many skills out there that are completely useless. There is a lot of room for improvement. Making the classes balanced by making them all fight the same is NOT the way. Sure a spy in new SPY PA can fight like a tank and may win, but WHY? As a SPY I would rather snipe, hack, or drive, or something completely different than a Tank. The ideas are endless, but apparently we can't make much progress against even bugs as we don't have a TS and our patches are released without major testing.:rolleyes:
Jesterthegreat
01-10-03, 15:51
well we do have a TS.. it is just rather unpopulated (other than people testing char setups O_o)
personally i am trying to test if kami's give negative resists (IE is 0 NRG resist - 100 0 resist overall? or -100?... i have got many respected peeps opinions but cannot test it as i am not gonna spend HOURS hunting for he right one on the test server)
Junkie
can i ask you something, have u ever played with a capped or nearly capped spy?
if u havent then plz dont try to comment on taking the spies shield away.
no point to 'heal" drone, spies can heal themselves.
also gives spies like a debuff 1 shot shotgun lol ( in accurate and hard to hit people with).
Jesterthegreat
01-10-03, 16:00
i know your not talking to me... but im a 66/52 pistol spy ^.^
and yeah, a spy caps tl3 heal, and can have a good heal sanct too
plus the deflecter / shelter combo (and rad suit) and we turn out to be ok... the only improvement i would suggest is dex armour... psi's dont have to use str armour... but spies do?
Take the spies shield away? What do you mean?
And the heal drone wouldn't be used on yourself. It's for others.
Shadow Dancer
01-10-03, 19:11
rofl nice sig Justin.
Disturbed021
01-10-03, 19:23
http://www.docassist.se/graphics/pictures/Ex2.jpg
This would help make APUs a little more useful. I swear half the time I take a Medkit and it raises my health by like 5 points o_O .
I pay alot for those damn things and have to lug them around with me taking up lots of my already low Transport, the damn things should work just as good as a TL3 heal if not better!
/rant off
Ya I like the idea of an anti-rez weapon of some type. Something that takes awhile to charge up but explodes the body so they cannot be rezzed.
Also a anti-buff drone would be wonderful. Would work like a Kami drone and explode, but instead of causing damage it debuffs whoever it hit. :D ;) me likes.
Originally posted by Disturbed021
This would help make APUs a little more useful. I swear half the time I take a Medkit and it raises my health by like 5 points o_O .
I pay alot for those damn things and have to lug them around with me taking up lots of my already low Transport, the damn things should work just as good as a TL3 heal if not better!
Yay, lets make APUs even more powerful. I think that the damage that APUs can deal out is balanced with their low cons and no heal. Their range is something else entirely. Put some points into recycle... you have a few spare as a monk.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
fix the damn hybrid nerf
Warning! Warning! Biased ex-hybrid alert.
So you want loads of hybrids back winning in 5-on-1 odds? No thanks mate.
I think that spies should be the ones to have an anti buff device if there is going to be another one around... They need more technological devices to make them less shit. Also if monks can get an anti stealth spell then spies should be able to get an anti buff device.
I will vote 5 stars because this thread is aimed toward helping all
classes, which they need. Currently it's spies for tradeskill, monks
for pvp, pe's for solo. Oh, in other news tanks are now obsolete :o
FBI
Oh stop whining, tanks aren't obsolete. They are the medium fighter. They do second best damage and unless you are fighting a VERY WELL SET UP pe then you will have second best defence in the game.
Disturbed021
01-10-03, 20:11
Originally posted by Judge
Yay, lets make APUs even more powerful. I think that the damage that APUs can deal out is balanced with their low cons and no heal. Their range is something else entirely. Put some points into recycle... you have a few spare as a monk.
The point is the Medkits do not work right.
Yes I agree based on the damage they do they should have low con (which they do) should be weak against pierce/force weapons (which they are).
If you have played a character that HAS to use medkits in order to heal themselves you would release that half the time the medkits do not work at all. Whens the last time u used a heal spell and your health did not go up?
The money to buy them or the recycle to build them is not the point...the fact they do not work at all sometimes is the point here.
And I highly doubt allowing the APUs to heal themselves better is somehow going to make them more powerful:rolleyes: Without Shelter and deflector and resist booster they are extremely vulnerable.
The thing is that with your ability of shooting round corners I don't see why APUs should get hit that much. The same could be said about sniping spies, and I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving up heal as well, if they did the same damage as you.
I have never had a medikit not work on me, but if they do not work sometimes then that does need to be sorted out.
Disturbed021
01-10-03, 20:25
Originally posted by Judge
The thing is that with your ability of shooting round corners I don't see why APUs should get hit that much. The same could be said about sniping spies, and I'm sure they wouldn't mind giving up heal as well, if they did the same damage as you.
I have never had a medikit not work on me, but if they do not work sometimes then that does need to be sorted out.
Well PvM I can go several minutes without being hit yes (of course it depends on what mobs), PvP is a different story tho.
Ya the medkits are trippy cause sometimes they work fine, sometimes not. Like I can have 150/250 health pop a medkit and the yellow bar raises like it is going to fill my health bar up completely. But when it finally raises as much as it does of my health I sometimes gain only a few health points. And sometimes I gain alot, normally tho I never actually gain 100 health like the medkit says I should.
I'll have to test it again in my apt just to make sure I'm not imaging things or just a victim of invisible mobs, etc...
•Super|\|ova•
01-10-03, 20:44
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
fix the damn hybrid nerf
Oh come on... wake up already! Don't you people remember why they got nerfed in the first place?
Yeah, un-nerf the hybrids and make this game even more unbalanced as it is now and make a favor for the bored PKers so they all can reroll/LoM to hybrid and ruin this game for good´:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Judge
Oh stop whining, tanks aren't obsolete. They are the medium fighter. They do second best damage and unless you are fighting a VERY WELL SET UP pe then you will have second best defence in the game.
Whaaaa Whhahaaa Whaaaa that's whining. I'm simply saying
the truth and it's shows in all the servers.
I mean, the past month i've been playing a monk... he's x/60
and has a Dimension Splitter now. I wouldn't devote time into
a monk if my tank char wasn't the least bit viable. IF you can't
agree, oh well. I could care less.
FBI
Shadow Dancer
01-10-03, 21:52
I used to think apus need some form of heal, but not anymore. We do alot of damage and have a powerful role in PvP, so I consider lack of good healing one of the disadvantages of the class and not something that needs to be fixed.
QuantumDelta
01-10-03, 23:10
Maybe a heal would be a nice way to soften that big ol' range nerf we knows' comin for the APU...
why would a drone so pointless have such a huge TL??
why no armour??
it would be another useless high TL drone which means us as droners have to spend more pointless hours making our drones.
That in the end.. will be destroyed in 1 hit, will not do a job as good as a monk, and is more expensive.
i realise your main point is to take the needed role of monks to other classes. but i dont see it as a drone role.
if they add any more crappy high TL drones im going to get a ticket over to germany and personally hit them in the face with nidds ban hammer till they choke in a pool of their own blood and vomit.
annyywaayyy.
make all monks hybrids
SigmaDraconis
02-10-03, 00:28
anti-buffing drones and stealth breaking monks! brilliant! We have completely technological items focusing their mental powers to break anothers manifested mental barrier! and another neat tool to give to monks to make them more important!! haha
/end sarcasm
I dont think monks should have truesight as it is...give the anti stealth to the spies. and leave the buffing/debuffing to the monks.
Make HCK based more on DEx..that way PE's can scrape by a hack and spies can do it...but will be nearly impossible for monks, as it is a 90INT +spy3 monk can hack with only very minor nerfage.
Originally posted by FBI
I will vote 5 stars because this thread is aimed toward helping all
classes, which they need. Currently it's spies for tradeskill, monks
for pvp, pe's for solo. Oh, in other news tanks are now obsolete :o
FBI
Yup u have a good point there about tanks :(
my pure apu can kill mobs faster overall
my droner/lib spy can kill mobs faster overall
my rifle pe can kill mobs faster overall
and believe it or not my pure ppu can kill mobs faster overall
than my near capped tank :/
Originally posted by Shakari
Yup u have a good point there about tanks :(
my pure apu can kill mobs faster overall
my droner/lib spy can kill mobs faster overall
my rifle pe can kill mobs faster overall
and believe it or not my pure ppu can kill mobs faster overall
than my near capped tank :/
Well i'm glad you agree but I find it hard to believe your ppu can
kill mobs faster overall.. that's a far stretched claim ;)
FBI
Disturbed021
02-10-03, 03:45
Originally posted by Shakari
Yup u have a good point there about tanks :(
my pure apu can kill mobs faster overall
my droner/lib spy can kill mobs faster overall
my rifle pe can kill mobs faster overall
and believe it or not my pure ppu can kill mobs faster overall
than my near capped tank :/
What is ur tank a droner?
Theres no way in hell you can try to claim a PPU can kill mobs faster than a Tank :lol:
K, ur definetly streching quite far there. :lol:
Did give me a good chuckle tho...
Originally posted by hose187
Or, give tanks a debuff cannon. Would need to be powered up (RoF lower than holy AB, and must stand stationary).
I had this exact idea the other day, was just waiting for the right moment to post it, I had in mind sum kind of Mortar that has to fire from a far distance and can only be fired once every 30 seconds or minute or any long duration.
Off course the cannon would totally debuff everything so you would need some organisation to ensure you are not debuffing ur own ppl
And make the debuforizor (yes i patent that) a rare so its not easy for opposing factions to plant a spy in their enemies clan and get the upper hand.
ok i was away last night so i coudnt reply
my point is that the nerf of "30 % " is actually much more.. like 47 %
fix that.. imo hybrids are pure shit .. with a 30 % nerf they would be playable and BALANCED again...
i say it again for all the ppl that think i want my old hybrid back.. i knew he was overpowerd thats why i had absulutly no problem that they nerfed him..i even told pol and the other ppl about the shelter problem and they posted it here..
it seems some of you really hate hybrids and overreact a bit.. o_O
all i want is a balanced playable hybrid again....imo after 3 weeks of testing i can say whatever you do ( yes i tested kami hybrid too ) .. you are pure shit...
i said fix ( ! ) not un nerf
thanks..
.cy
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