View Full Version : Resists - anyone know exact "flip point" number?
I have with my monk at APU PA2 near 183 energy resist - and Y replicant sergant killed me in 2 bursts (was at full health - 318 HP). But he did near 150 points of damage with same 2 bursts (almost all plasma "bullets" hitted me both times) to my tank, who have 88 energy resist with armor and 25 in Con. So - where is this infamous "flip point" for energy resist?
JustIn_Case
30-09-03, 09:37
There is no flip point. There is a point where you gain nothing from putting points into a resist (capped resist).
The Rustot (http://neocron.ems.ru) site is very helpfull when calculating a good armour/resist setup. Maybe not 100% true, but close enough.
they do xray and energy... so having pure energy is useless as u will still get pwnd...
that and ur an apu; yer meant to die fast =p
If so, who you can explain this shit?
183 < 88 + 25 ???
Also my spy with 50 energy resist in Con and heavy energy belt (70 resist) survived 4 bursts by same Y sergant (but only 1-2 plasma "balls" hitted him with every bursts, and he have 333 HP).
P.S. Ok, my monk have 30 xray in Con and near 44 from armor ... Tank - 5 from armor and 20 in Con ... Still dont get this ... :mad:
Put some points into x-ray if you don't have any already. Get a PPU and strap him onto your ass.
total amount of HP is a big difference too... more hp with good resists means u live longer.
Hm ... DoY bots do pure xray ... but they do more damage per shot to my tank compaired with monk ...
btw, just after patch 188 my antirad gave me 200 xray ... but DoY did to my spy more damage compaired with pre-patch stats (117 + bonus from heavy deflector belt ).
Also CON level plays huge role here. More CON levels, more effect resists are, thus having 45 CON and 100 energy is not that effective than having 90 CON and 75 energy.
ericdraven
30-09-03, 11:44
Originally posted by LVirus
Also CON level plays huge role here. More CON levels, more effect resists are, thus having 45 CON and 100 energy is not that effective than having 90 CONand 75 energy.
Wrong. Lupus proved that CON has no effect AT ALL toward resists (it's an quite old thread, but i am sure the search function should find it).
O/T @ Draven.
In your sig, how do you know theres only 4 parts to the Machina Gloves? Is it based on TL? I thought it was 5 parts, but I'll be so happy if it only requires 4.
Xandros Fidian
30-09-03, 11:54
Originally posted by ericdraven
Wrong. Lupus proved that CON has no effect AT ALL toward resists (it's an quite old thread, but i am sure the search function should find it).
Right, Lupus also said that 114 is resist CAPP so more points than 114 wont give an effect. He also said that with 114 you gain a 74% of dmg absorb, the real capp is at 76% witch only can bee reached by combination off armor and resist, so with 160 Armor resi you need 102 in the resist to gain the real absorb capp, con dose not have any influense in that, and armor resist is weaker than the resist you skill, so you cant add them 1 to 1.
What eric said, no effect of CON anymore. CON had an effect some time ago, but not anymore. Quite many things changed in resists in the past months :)
ericdraven
30-09-03, 11:57
Originally posted by Mankind
O/T @ Draven.
In your sig, how do you know theres only 4 parts to the Machina Gloves? Is it based on TL? I thought it was 5 parts, but I'll be so happy if it only requires 4.
Yes, it's TL based.
I can tell you in a few minutes for sure, got four parts of the researcher glove.
/EDIT: Yes, it needs only four parts. See here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77316)
Originally posted by ericdraven
Yes, it's TL based.
I can tell you in a few minutes for sure, got four parts of the researcher glove.
Damn you are lucky :p
I only have 2/4 then, those other 2 are probably gonna be a bitch to get :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ericdraven
Wrong. Lupus proved that CON has no effect AT ALL toward resists (it's an quite old thread, but i am sure the search function should find it).
Was this tested on a Live server or on the TS?
Originally posted by jernau
Was this tested on a Live server or on the TS?
Actually a good question. TS afaik.
What are you up to?
So I need near 120 resist total to near cap it?
So why the hell monk's PAs have so high energy resist instead of piercing/force? :confused:
Originally posted by Warlogis
So I need near 120 resist total to near cap it?
So why the hell monk's PAs have so high energy resist instead of piercing/force? :confused:
Because they need some kind of weakness....
Originally posted by Lucjan
Actually a good question. TS afaik.
What are you up to?
Not up to anything really. It's just that I know there are HUGE differences now between the TS and the live servers and I hear that one of the areas affected is resists.
Saying that CON has no effect and resists cap at 114 on Test does not necessarily mean either is true on the live servers.
Originally posted by jernau
Not up to anything really. It's just that I know there are HUGE differences now between the TS and the live servers and I hear that one of the areas affected is resists.
Saying that CON has no effect and resists cap at 114 on Test does not necessarily mean either is true on the live servers.
"I hear"... <--- Rumors are ugly little bastards.
TS & Retail only differ in patch # for the most part. Beyond that theres only a few minor things like reward levels, and exp gain that really seperate the 2. TS has to be kept the same as retail for testing purposes.
As for the Testing.. it took place both on the Test Server & on Retail.
Tnx for this kind of info, Lupus, but I'm still wondering - why better energy and xray resistances gives less real resistances to monk compaired with tank? :confused:
Monk setup - 183 energy and 37-44 (or near, cant remember exactly now - I'm at work ;)) xray from armor and 30 xray in Con.
Tank setup - 88 energy and 5 xray from armor, 30 energy and 25 xray in Con.
Monk - loose all 318 HP in 2 bursts (at close range, so 7 or 8 plazma "bullets" hitted him).
Tank - loose 160-200 HP (from 540 HP total) in same 2 bursts (at least 6 "bullets" hitted to), and retreated back to previous zone.
Dribble Joy
01-10-03, 16:33
Originally posted by Warlogis
Tnx for this kind of info, Lupus, but I'm still wondering - why better energy and xray resistances gives less real resistances to monk compaired with tank? :confused:
Monk setup - 183 energy and 37-44 (or near, cant remember exactly now - I'm at work ;)) xray from armor and 30 xray in Con.
Tank setup - 88 energy and 5 xray from armor, 30 energy and 25 xray in Con.
Monk - loose all 318 HP in 2 bursts (at close range, so 7 or 8 plazma "bullets" hitted him).
Tank - loose 160-200 HP (from 540 HP total) in same 2 bursts (at least 6 "bullets" hitted to), and retreated back to previous zone.
88 energy armour and 30 in con will absorb not much less than 183 armour, about 3% difference.
The monk took at least 1 or two more 'bullets' but remember burst bonus, this has HUGE effects in PvP, miss two of the 4 shots and the dmg taken plummets. Added together it's not unlikely for the monk to get mashed.
//edit the tank could have had a shelter on as well.
Main difference between a Tank & a Monk is the amount of Health. There is a cap on just how much damage can be done in one shot, not sure exctly how thats calculated, but when Testing QD never took more then iirc.. 260 damage as a PE. (from a Silent Hunter) That number did not immediately start to go down as resists were added either. A certain amount of resists was needed before it started to have an effect. I'm assuming that was due to the fact the SH had the potential to do alot more damage but was being limited by the no 1 shot kill rule. (Stuff like this can make things like resists seem bugged to most people, when theyre actually still working correctly just hidden by other rules)
260 to a Tank is not that much when compared to 260 off a Monk (pretending the 260 works for everyone)
Your also using a burst weapon, and as was pointed out, they're not the greatest thing to use for Resist Tests as theres way to many variables. Even if you could tell if all of them hit or not (just because it hits the person on your screen doesnt mean it counted) you also have to account for teh fact headshots are worth more then torso which are worth more then leg shots..
So assuming all 4 hit, in one burst you may get 2 head shots and 2 torso shots, while the next burst maybe 3 Torso and 1 head.
Hm ... tnx ... but as I saw this rule about zone damage (head, torso, leags) do not works since one of 179-182 patches ... I did same damage in PvP in all zones ... only reason to aim now its to slow down opponent shooting at his legs ...
Dunno maybe devs changed this in last 188 and 189 patches ...
Or this rule still works at PvM?
Clothing_Option
01-10-03, 17:03
Originally posted by Mankind
Put some points into x-ray if you don't have any already. Get a PPU and strap him onto your ass.
Yep if u aint got a PPU against xray and are APU
u aint gonna last long for example..I got my xray armour resists up to 46 plus i took xray potion which would bring that to 66
plus 20 points in xraresist and i still died after 4 shots from a DOY
[TgR]KILLER
01-10-03, 17:23
i don't care that much about flibs hence i dont know shit about it :p i just fuck around whit my points till i get something working.. hence when i duel a few times with QD or vet or kramer.. I always have to ajust my setup.. Most of the time its costing me millions :p
Dribble Joy
01-10-03, 17:28
I've given up on my setup, I take over 50 from any CS, BS/HL/Libby/PE(despite capped FOR) rapes me and I'm not good enough to deserve to know how to improve it.
[TgR]KILLER
01-10-03, 17:30
sigh your aint that bad DJ.. don't make me tell u again
QuantumDelta
01-10-03, 17:44
listen to lupus....he wise :p
he test, not guess... lol
Generally;
Test with single shot weapons (laser pistols, sniper rifles, gives a good range).
Realise that the one hit kill rule only applies to the max hp, not percentages (as was the assumption way back when I started studying resists).
Realise that the hard work is done (hard work I suppose is one way of looking at it, anyway, Natural Resists (in CON/STR) cap at 114).
Try to find a setup that is best for you, be it generalised, specialised, or otherwise.
NB;
114 Natural Resist = 72% resist, armor resists can from there push you to 76% resist, no higher.
Good luck :)
Doc Holliday
01-10-03, 19:01
just a query on the subject then a little off topic i guess but what type of damage do Y commanders do? is it pure nrg or Xray as i swear its nrg alone but seein that kinda makes me 2nd guess.
O/T @ QD so u like linkin park hmmmm? :p
Phiberdelic
01-10-03, 19:53
Originally posted by mdares
they do xray and energy... so having pure energy is useless as u will still get pwnd...
that and ur an apu; yer meant to die fast =p
They are not Xray and Energy...fuk Callash has even stated that they do PURE ENERGY.....PURE ENERGY...
Sorry it was Lupus who said this...had to search for it again: READ THE FOLLOWING
Originally posted by Lupus
Y Trooper Replicants & AREA MC5 Low Security Bots use a Ryker Napalm
Y Sergant Replicants & AREA MC5 Medium Security Bots use a Enhanced Plasma Rifle
Y Commander Replicants use a Tangent Plasma Wave
All the above use the base ammo for the weapon which is Energy Only by default.
MC5 Guards, High Security Bots & Base Commander use CopBot Rifles which do Energy & X-Ray by default.
None of them do Poison.
Wait...wait.....wait....did he just say ENERGY ONLY??????
I think he just did, so people stop giving false advise.
I am a Spy who hunts these on a daily basis, I only have 95 ENR and a Heavy Energy belt...ZERO other resists, and I have no problems taking several hits from Seargants...Commanders on the other hand I can only take 1 direct and 2-3 indirect (when you run into his beam not when he directly hits you in the face with it)
QD, PLEASE stop helping people. I and a handful of others, including you put in a lot of work and time to figure this stuff out. If people dont wanna work, screw them, let then suck. If theybwanna be good, make them put in the time we did to achieve it.
Originally posted by Lupus
"I hear"... <--- Rumors are ugly little bastards.
TS & Retail only differ in patch # for the most part. Beyond that theres only a few minor things like reward levels, and exp gain that really seperate the 2. TS has to be kept the same as retail for testing purposes.
As for the Testing.. it took place both on the Test Server & on Retail.
I used the phrase "I hear" on purpose ;)
I do know that several people that went there to test resists (:mad: ) gave up when they found the results where HUGELY different from what they saw on retail.
I'd like to believe what you say Lupus as I know how hard you are working for us all but I do trust some (not all) of the people I've heard this from.
Maybe it's changed since the last retail patch (as you would expect) but I have serious doubts about how close TS and Live are as I have never seen the TS being stripped and rebuilt to match a retail patch.
Originally posted by Phiberdelic
They are not Xray and Energy...fuk Callash has even stated that they do PURE ENERGY.....PURE ENERGY...
Sorry it was Lupus who said this...had to search for it again: READ THE FOLLOWING
Wait...wait.....wait....did he just say ENERGY ONLY??????
I think he just did, so people stop giving false advise.
I am a Spy who hunts these on a daily basis, I only have 95 ENR and a Heavy Energy belt...ZERO other resists, and I have no problems taking several hits from Seargants...Commanders on the other hand I can only take 1 direct and 2-3 indirect (when you run into his beam not when he directly hits you in the face with it)
erm chill dude... sheesh o_O false advice? this is my experience; it might be bugged but thats wut it found. kthnx
and i'm not sure its only energy as having a haz takes less dmg than having a heat (haz is xray; heat does energy too)... but thats just what i got in my experience when i hunted those buggers.
Originally posted by VetteroX
QD, PLEASE stop helping people. I and a handful of others, including you put in a lot of work and time to figure this stuff out. If people dont wanna work, screw them, let then suck. If theybwanna be good, make them put in the time we did to achieve it.
Boo hoo! :rolleyes:
Phiberdelic
01-10-03, 23:02
Originally posted by mdares
erm chill dude... sheesh o_O false advice? this is my experience; it might be bugged but thats wut it found. kthnx
and i'm not sure its only energy as having a haz takes less dmg than having a heat (haz is xray; heat does energy too)... but thats just what i got in my experience when i hunted those buggers.
I'm not sure what you were smoking at the time, but you can't tell me that +20 XRR from Haz absorbs more damage than Anti-Rad Suit of +117 XRR and XRR Potion of +25, because wearing and drinking that doesnt take any less damage than without.
QuantumDelta
01-10-03, 23:15
I swear that's a copy and paste of last time....hmm, you're just like ND (not the clan the EX-SSC from FS2...) ...evil...but i like it :p
Originally posted by VetteroX
QD, PLEASE stop helping people. I and a handful of others, including you put in a lot of work and time to figure this stuff out. If people dont wanna work, screw them, let then suck. If theybwanna be good, make them put in the time we did to achieve it.
Oh come on, thats so fucking selfish...
Its not like anyone posted some exact setups here or shit like that, and i think even if someone did, this game is so screwed up it wouldnt help most ppl o_O
Originally posted by Phiberdelic
I'm not sure what you were smoking at the time, but you can't tell me that +20 XRR from Haz absorbs more damage than Anti-Rad Suit of +117 XRR and XRR Potion of +25, because wearing and drinking that doesnt take any less damage than without.
read the fricken original post... HES A MONK! not a spy. kthnxbye :rolleyes:
Hows it selfish? I dont like seeing freeloaders get things I and others have earned... I hate when people get stuff for free when others work for it.. its not THAT hard, people just give up so easily, put a little effort in and you can get a good setup, stop begging for help.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Hows it selfish? I dont like seeing freeloaders get things I and others have earned... I hate when people get stuff for free when others work for it.. its not THAT hard, people just give up so easily, put a little effort in and you can get a good setup, stop begging for help.
I agree. But imo ppl just get hints and tips. Thats it. So where the problem? Most of the stuff ppl tell here is so damn easy to find out anyway.
Hows it selfish? I dont like seeing freeloaders get things I and others have earned... I hate when people get stuff for free when others work for it.. its not THAT hard, people just give up so easily, put a little effort in and you can get a good setup, stop begging for help.
At the rate this game is dying you will soon be buried with all your 'l33t secrets'.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Hows it selfish? I dont like seeing freeloaders get things I and others have earned... I hate when people get stuff for free when others work for it.. its not THAT hard, people just give up so easily, put a little effort in and you can get a good setup, stop begging for help.
Okay, then by what you are saying Newton shoul not have written his book on the force of gravity.
Hell, no one should have written down anything for anyone to read. It was those people's hard life long work. Why should the rest of use benefit? :lol:
QuantumDelta
02-10-03, 03:03
Well not really....this is a competitive environment...newton was in a different environment, his studies were, specifically to further humanity in the realm of science.....
I kinda take newtons view saying to myself ..."If they get better...they might beat me....which forces me to get EVEN better..."
Vett just pwns everyone :p
exactly, you cant compair the 2. If i found a way to stop NC from crashing, I would share, because that would help the game and not hurt me, but people (most of whom are enemy factions) getting free tips sucks.
Hm ... topic was about damage type of Yo's ... and some ... ( hm ... dont want to use F-words) like always converted it to "ego competition" :mad:
I heard some answers, but not for all my questions ... So be it!
Mods, pls, better close this topic before it changed to useless crap.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Well not really....this is a competitive environment...newton was in a different environment, his studies were, specifically to further humanity in the realm of science.....
I kinda take newtons view saying to myself ..."If they get better...they might beat me....which forces me to get EVEN better..."
Vett just pwns everyone :p
Actually Newton, like many scientists and inventors, was in a very competitive environment. The difference is that the "winner" in that environment is the one who publishes the answer first not the one who finds it first.
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