View Full Version : Tech Haven Defenses
Over the last couple of months a lot of FA enemies have come to realise that TH is a great place to come to PK some ppl and hack some belts or just generally terrorize ppl. I personally have lost some good items including a Silent Hunter and Anti-Radiation suit to the PKers but this is something i have had to deal with. Now i don't want to make it a warzone so belts do not drop or stop the enemies from coming in there after all this is roleplay and some enemies might be coming in to raise sympathy to join FA. But why are the defenses so bad? Ok the MB soldiers are nothing special but at least there are a a lot of them. Same with TG guards, they are all over TG canyon. All faction HQ's in NC have good guards in them that do a lot of damage. So why do the so called Techies of Tech Haven have a few Spiderbots that for starters do basically zero damage to the noobest of noobs, they might be rubbish but surely there should be more of them and in better places like TH Sector 2 which is where most of the PKing takes place. Fair enough we have turrets outside but even they are rubbish and easily avoided. Maybe we should have some more inside and more spiderbots or those Y-Reps that are on the all singing and dancing French server.
I know quite a few people that are leaving FA or want to coz of this and i am sure the enemies are happy that they are driving ppl out but we have better things to do than defending TH all the time. Its sad when it gets to a point that the enemy factions are able to just camp outside our appartments so we cannot come down, fair enough we could GR out but not in to TH coz the GR's are being camped. I mean if the defenses are not to be improved then why not mod the spiderbots with 'vending machine' capabilties to make the enemy factions stay a little more comfortable? O_o
Just like to hear ppl's views on this. Cheers
st0ck
QuantumDelta
29-09-03, 15:20
I gave up giving a crap....seems KK are busy with other things.
Ruh...
I am no expert on game mechanics, but spawning some more defenses 'current spiderbots or new Y's' doesn't seem to look like it would be difficult??
maybe im wrong, but you look at the mercs when there place gets raided, they respond(normally) with force, you go to TG canyon, and they will defend it, but you go to Tech haven, and its rare you see a FA dude in there.
id rather see the areas policed by the faction members rather than NPCs, but it seems at the moment the FA runners have no reason to stay in there own base, they have a better leveling area at Grant or CRP so they got no reason to stay in the area of Tech haven.
it would be nice to see the FA respond in force to Pkers, on the odd occasion i have been in there as BD runner, more than likely it was a TG runner who i would bump into.
QuantumDelta
29-09-03, 15:36
FA do on Uranus.
Actually having some Faction NPC Guards would be nice though.
I mean, even the sec bots were a nice token..even if they're probably the most pathetic mob in the game.
Yeesh.
I know a lot of runners that fight back but it is usually quite difficult coordinating attack from your camped appartments. Plus there is the dilemma now of who is actually an enemy, it could be the classified enemies TT/BD or CS (incidently most FA never used to class Crahn as a realy enemy - saturn) or you get CA/PP and now TG are joining in the PKing, but all this is another issue.
MB is slightly easier to defend as well, one entrance and 1 GR which is easily camped and usually quite busy.
I am more concerned about the NPC defenses in TH.
why r u wearin an anti-radiation suit in the first place if your a fallen angel? Its "supposed" to be for friends/allies of Tangent, which your not O_o thats something that bugs :p
In answer to that, i was actually NEXT before FA eons ago. Faction restricted items are also another issue. :D
enigma_b17
29-09-03, 15:47
Point 1
but it seems at the moment the FA runners have no reason to stay in there own base
no1 stays there cause it gets invaded so often...although alot of good lvling spots do exist outside the tech"haven"
Point 2
Tech Haven is supposed to b a safe place for the Fallen Angels and her allies. At the moment its about as safe as pepper park alley. Its NOT a Haven at all. The "guards" in there are pathetic
Point 3
id rather see the areas policed by the faction members rather than NPCs
We dont all have hours and hours and hours of free time on our hands. The point of having defences is so that ppl dont have to b the copbots of techhaven. Personally, id rather go hunt something then wade my time away wondering round techhaven stoppin all the pkers who would kill our n00bs.
Point 4
Last nite really took the biscuit. A crahn clan came into techhaven and challenged all of fas enemies to a battle in our hq. If u did that in TT hq or the crahn hq in pp wed get mauled by guards. Its ridiculous
Why FA don't defend their HQ? Because the clan that was once called "Blue-tech" is no more.
That's why. There aren't any FA clans around and now that the oldest one that actually DEFENDED TH in the good old days is gone, TH is open for attacks from TT and other hostile factions.
// Wannabe
JustIn_Case
29-09-03, 15:52
Originally posted by st0ckman
MB is slightly easier to defend as well, one entrance and 1 GR which is easily camped and usually quite busy
One entrance yes, but that is not the only way they enter MB.
One GR no, most frequent MB PK:ers have their own private
GR (appartment) and that is also how they enter MB.
But the problem with TH isnt the lack of NPC guards, it is the lack of high level runners guarding it (on Saturn anyway). So maybe some nice hunting grounds outside TH entrance would solve it?
enigma_b17
29-09-03, 15:53
Why FA don't defend their HQ? Because the clan that was once called "Blue-tech" is no more.
thats a very narrow point of view. On saturn, we do defend th, but we cant defend it all the time, 24 hours a day. When ppl come on for an hour or 2 during the week they might want to go hunt or do somethin a little more fun then defendin their home from the scum of southern society
JustIn_Case
29-09-03, 15:57
True!
But when i was CM, i didnt camp MB allday waiting for it to get attacked, but when we got an alert in FACTION channel i usually GR:ed to my MB app and started the PK hunt (most likely a stelth sniper).
Originally posted by JustIn_Case
One entrance yes, but that is not the only way they enter MB.
One GR no, most frequent MB PK:ers have their own private
GR (appartment) and that is also how they enter MB.
I would like to see faction enemies not being allowed to buy apartments in enemy bases. But remember we also have this problem where they can GR into apts. Plus we have have North and South Exits and an A and B GR. I have spent a many hours running from GR A to GR B making sure no enemies were attacking. Not sure i should be doing this.
Heh ... turrets can make wonders ;)
Just remember some time ago at retail turrets attack every enemy faction inside TH and they was placed almost anywere ... not only near command center.
Or at Beta 4 times turrets was almost anywere to (even a little more compaired with retail) and attacked ALL runners who took away weapons (like copbots). Yes, they do crap damage (or no damage to high lvl PPU), but they numberous and can help FA runners to fight back those PKers ... (btw, last times not only enemy factions runners PKed at TH - even some neutral do it).
enigma_b17
29-09-03, 16:01
aye st0cky, and not that alone but the whole not being able to c any1 bug in the th1 appy lifts is a rite pain in the arse. U can b standing there minding ur own business and u literraly get attacked from nothing, as if they were stealthed :\. Somethin must be done
enigma_b17
29-09-03, 16:04
also I would like to add also that FA do NOT have an active Faction GM. I have tried dming Lupus Wonderboy, the sposed Faction gm to no avail. If any gms read this please tell me who in gods name we can organise a meeting with to sort this out
/Nid's edit - use the edit facility next time, please. Also, send an in-game email to Lupus, or create a thread on the in-game forums. DM is not an effective way to contact someone in a 24/7 persistent world.
Ah yes, i have been attacked by the invisible runner as well! :D I came down from my apt, noticed a lot of enemy names in my local so i equipped myself to at least try and cause some damage, opened the door and there was nobosy there. So i am thinking well they must be in the corridor then bam, all hell breaks loose, i have multiple poison stacks and have taken blast from all sorts of weps - dead. But nobody was there. :confused:
enigma_b17
29-09-03, 16:10
dont u love how much kk loves the fa?
Syntax-Error
29-09-03, 16:17
Right now lupus wonderboy is away on personal bussiness IRL.
were working on getting a second FA FC. right now. if you need anything on any server please feel free to contact me and ill get the correct people to contact you.
On the TH side.. We at Fallen angels are already deep in the process of developing a new defensive system for TH. and hopefully will be ready to do some trial in the next few months.
Can't say i was too happy to see 'months' mentioned coz if it's anything like KK's 2 weeks for Spy PA then the children that i am yet to conceive are going to be bloody old by the time it happens! :wtf:
Surely even a temporary spawn of more spider bots in vital areas would suffice for now. Look at the beach party, shit loads of STORM bots spawned for that and we saw them being spawned, it didn't look too difficult. Seems the politics is getting in the way of any kind of action again.
Syntax-Error
29-09-03, 16:32
i tried this line. apparently they just flat out refuse to help FA
the FA on pluto died. plain and simple we had 2-3 ppl online at busy times. were picked up now no thnx to KK . ive asked a few GMs and even the head of ECT tensh. and i got told it wasnt nessisary and they wouldnt do it. (yet. again they spawned guards in CA HQ. only callash seems to know how bad CM and FA have it and is working to fix this already.
I've been on more "stop the PKs in TH" hunts than I've been on cave runs. When pkers attack after 9pm EST, Fuzzy almost always goes to defend unless we're busy taking ops.
I think the problem with spawning Y reps or some other mobs as defenders is that.... people would just kill them. The layout of TH is conducive for attackers - lots of high place with no easy access from the lower point. A Y near a GR would be easy pickings for someone standing up top.
Yeah, it'd be stupid to kill your own guards, but you may have noticed that MMORPGs aren't populated by the geniuses of our society :rolleyes:
We really need fairly good powered, low xp mobs as guards. Copbots are too much, sentrybots are too little - although if the number of sentrybots was quadrupled (at least) and their placement was fixed they'd be a lot more helpful and a much better deterrent.
enigma_b17
29-09-03, 17:21
although if the number of sentrybots was quadrupled
in order for those things to hurt ud have to have 10 of them shooting all at u at the one time. So 20-30 per person that invades th would be "helpful"
This has been solved on Venus (amid weeks of PKing by faction ennemies) with the addition of new guards + a lot of excellent diplomacy from the GM with the PKers
This is the link (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73262&highlight=nouveaux+gardes) to the thread in French where you'll have the link to the pictures
Syntax-Error
29-09-03, 17:27
Venus isnt part of KKs stuff and KK flat out refuse to help us.
what wud be cool is summat like fixed gattling towers a cannon either side of a base (like those that guard zion in matrix2) . say the strength of two TGC's and have a few of those around.
Originally posted by Rinaldo
This has been solved on Venus (amid weeks of PKing by faction ennemies) with the addition of new guards + a lot of excellent diplomacy from the GM with the PKers
This is the link (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73262&highlight=nouveaux+gardes) to the thread in French where you'll have the link to the pictures
A 120/120 guard is ridiculos an just a nice way of pussifiying I would be pro to changeing tech haven to a war zone im sic of taking SL there and I stop caring about belts a long time ago just a nice time waster to get myself a medpack or a used psi booster.
They absolutely should not put more guards in TH. In fact, they should take out many of the guards in MB and TG. Its up to the Fallen Angels, TG's, and CM to defend their homes. If they cant do it, then die. I riad all three places, and I hate that certain areas are so choked with guards I cant go. Also, putting in more guards will just encourage more PPU use. As it stands, I sometimes pk without a ppu as others i know do... I can kill until and enemy ppus shows up. If motr guar are put on, it would create an even greated reliance on ppus.
But basically, I think more guards is awful. You ave several choises.
1) fight and die... alls fair, if the attackers stronger we deserve to occuppy TH. Or, attack and win.
2) Dont come.... keep hunting. ive noticed less and less FA comming to fight me recently.
I hate npc guards, would you like it if KK did some roleplaying thing and spawned BD or Tangent Guards inone of your favorite places to go? i doubt it.
Just Know TH ISNT a safe Haven. Its an anarchy zone. You have to stay on your toes, because you can, and probaly will be attacked at any time. Personaly, if BD had a big HQ and people would raid and i had to come defend, Id love it.
last point... how the HELL did you lose a Silent Hunter... ever heard of slot 1? if you carry 2 rares, you were careless and the SH is going to a more deserving person who will take proper care of it.
Disturbed021
29-09-03, 17:53
Originally posted by Wannabe
Why FA don't defend their HQ? Because the clan that was once called "Blue-tech" is no more.
That's why. There aren't any FA clans around and now that the oldest one that actually DEFENDED TH in the good old days is gone, TH is open for attacks from TT and other hostile factions.
I have always been FA on Pluto and I was in TecH, THSC and now TgR and all FA clans I have been in defend TH, not just BlueTech. When Dark was there they would defend it aswell, also alot of TG clans are willing to come help TH out as most of the ppl raiding TH are their enemies too.
Problem is after playing as FA for months you get really tired of running to TH to defend it 2-3 times a day.
I think it burns alot of ppl out quickly on those servers that dont have a really stong FA faction.
Its quite obvoius that TH has shit defenses cause it gets raided way too much. I'm all for raiding factions HQ but TH is supposed to be a home/HQ and while we FA can strike back and raid TT HQ but we cannot raid TT homes so I think the balance there is a bit off.
Imo the defenses should be much better, but we have complained for sooo many months and nothing has been done, so me hopes DoY is a better guarded city and we will just go there.....
warzones are a total waste to pk in. I pk 50% for fun 50% for belts. maybe from where you pk you get psi boosters and medkits, but ive gotten a 3 fire apocs, a HL, a CS, a MAL, and several nice level 3 ppus spells and high level cannons/rifles/pistols with multiple slots. I also have about 12 apu suits and 3 or 4 ppus suits.
Keep TH as is.
Syntax-Error
29-09-03, 18:16
Originally posted by VetteroX
warzones are a total waste to pk in. I pk 50% for fun 50% for belts. maybe from where you pk you get psi boosters and medkits, but ive gotten a 3 fire apocs, a HL, a CS, a MAL, and several nice level 3 ppus spells and high level cannons/rifles/pistols with multiple slots. I also have about 12 apu suits and 3 or 4 ppus suits.
Keep TH as is.
Hmm i wonder how much people like you will bitch if they remove safe zones from neocron. the fact is. people DONT WANT to PK 24/7
its ok for the attakc he comes for as long as HE/SHE wants then pisses off. to be replaced by someone else
have you ever played FA or CM for any lengh of time?
it's like Xin pointed out. most of the people who play MMORPGs really don't treat such worlds with respect. hence most of the non-sense that goes on.
as for TH. it has always been (well least during my beta days) an empty place with few players. most players have used it for PKing and battles. the early security was a joke and simply used for lvling off. of course TG and MB were similar to TH. yet KK seems to have taken a liking to them and boosted the security, if only by numbers rather than phyisical strength.
though to be honest it wouldn't matter what the security was like at any of these locations. unless the players disrespect for MMORPG worlds is changed. it's simply a waste of effort.
Most people dont stop and think about who the FA are. Mostly tradeskillers. Those guys cant defend themselves. And i hate beeing killed almost every time i set my foot outside my appartment. Give us some better guards please. Or let us raid NC, so we have the same chance to do it to our enemies. But then replace CopBots by with some stupid 80/80 gurds, like the TT guards maybe. That would be fun. And raiding Tangent headquarters is not really worth it, cause there is usually nobady there, and it ends in safezone hopping. So give us better defences in TH at least until we can get better protection in DOY.
Xaru
Originally posted by Xaru
Most people dont stop and think about who the FA are. Mostly tradeskillers. Those guys cant defend themselves. And i hate beeing killed almost every time i set my foot outside my appartment. Give us some better guards please. Or let us raid NC, so we have the same chance to do it to our enemies. But then replace CopBots by with some stupid 80/80 gurds, like the TT guards maybe. That would be fun. And raiding Tangent headquarters is not really worth it, cause there is usually nobady there, and it ends in safezone hopping. So give us better defences in TH at least until we can get better protection in DOY.
Xaru
Most FA are tradeskillers? They might have tradeskilling alts, but I'd strongly disagree with your statement, at least on Saturn during my play times...
PKers in TH are almost always forced to leave. Sgt Striker and co. raid almost every night and we eventually drive him off every time. Admittedly, when you get something like 7 Templars in there, it's a lot harder to round up sufficient counterforces so they usually get bored and leave before we get our at together, but 1-3 PKers never go unmatched for long...
Syntax-Error
29-09-03, 19:25
All very nice but pluto is a 1 char server and 90% of actives are tradeskillers right now.
QuantumDelta
29-09-03, 19:41
Pluto isn't the world you know.
FA are a fairly stable power on Uranus.
(I say fairly because I'd get shot if I said major) *s******************s and runs off*
Originally posted by Xin
Most FA are tradeskillers? They might have tradeskilling alts, but I'd strongly disagree with your statement, at least on Saturn during my play times...
PKers in TH are almost always forced to leave. Sgt Striker and co. raid almost every night and we eventually drive him off every time. Admittedly, when you get something like 7 Templars in there, it's a lot harder to round up sufficient counterforces so they usually get bored and leave before we get our at together, but 1-3 PKers never go unmatched for long...
I know that, i play on Saturn aswell, but you know aswell, that there is not always fighters online. And even if so, it usually takes a while till there are defenders in TH, and lots of times, the raiders have left then and leave a lot of dead youngsters behind.
I wouldnt rant about about the bad defence system, if we could go to NC and gank every little TT we see. But we cant, and that makes me mad, cause that is just not fair, because they can. Just let us raid NC and all will be fine :)
Xaru
Xaru yep safe zones suck. of course i dream of neptune though it'll never happen. also most of NC players i think would leave if safe zones got removed. though as it looks like the LE ( devils spawn ) is here to stay. i don't see why KK don't drop the safe zones as people would still have LEs to hide behind.
Originally posted by VetteroX
[B]They absolutely should not put more guards in TH. In fact, they should take out many of the guards in MB and TG. Its up to the Fallen Angels, TG's, and CM to defend their homes. If they cant do it, then die. I riad all three places, and I hate that certain areas are so choked with guards I cant go. Also, putting in more guards will just encourage more PPU use. As it stands, I sometimes pk without a ppu as others i know do... I can kill until and enemy ppus shows up. If motr guar are put on, it would create an even greated reliance on ppus.
But basically, I think more guards is awful. You ave several choises.
1) fight and die... alls fair, if the attackers stronger we deserve to occuppy TH. Or, attack and win.
Hello Vet, well we don't always fight and die as you probably know and all isn't fair as you also probably know. The majority of ppl will admit that the place is easy pickings. All i am asking is for it to be a little bit harder to do the raids not complately stop them.
2) Dont come.... keep hunting. ive noticed less and less FA comming to fight me recently.
You are probably right we should set up base somewhere safer and i have mentioned this but it doesn't seem condusive to the rp in the game so catch 22. The upper hand is usually with the raiders coz they can come in the knowledge that there might be a few noobs there to kill or maybe 1 or 2 higher lvl players if you actually feel like taking on someone worthy of your PKing prowess. So by the time the ppl are dragged away from their hunting ground (maybe there should be better hunting grounds at TH?) they cannot group with other FA runners coz a lot of the time they cannot go in to TH-1 coz the apartments are being camped and out spiderbots are tickling them.
I hate npc guards, would you like it if KK did some roleplaying thing and spawned BD or Tangent Guards inone of your favorite places to go? i doubt it.
Just Know TH ISNT a safe Haven. Its an anarchy zone. You have to stay on your toes, because you can, and probaly will be attacked at any time. Personaly, if BD had a big HQ and people would raid and i had to come defend, Id love it.
I used to be in NEXT so i know what it is like trying to hunt mobs in the canyons and at CRP dodging TG guard fire. As for you loving it i very much doubt you would if you were doing at as much as some of us are.
last point... how the HELL did you lose a Silent Hunter... ever heard of slot 1? if you carry 2 rares, you were careless and the SH is going to a more deserving person who will take proper care of it.
Thanks for the advice dad i will take care of my toys in future. I had a Disruptor in Slot 1 coz i had just been at an OP war. Having just a SH would make me a sniper and not much else...anyway...i came back to swap weps and grab some ammo to go hunting, GR'd in synced...crashed..cursed...came back dead and with a hacked belt. Can't do much about it, might have had more of a chance if the raiders were being kept busy by some TH defenses.
well, GR to your apt, or plaza 1. NEVER carry twi rares, not ever, or you will lose one.
Originally posted by VetteroX
well, GR to your apt, or plaza 1. NEVER carry twi rares, not ever, or you will lose one.
Things are not always be as simple as you want them to be. As you maybe be aware there are some bugs in the game? I would not have been able to GR to my apt in TH coz it kept sending me to my NC apt which wasn't gonna be too much use coz i wanted to hunt in F_08 so i would have had to get to TH again at some point anyway. Gab mine was TT at the time. Losing the SH was not the subject of this thread and after enduring the 'we pwnd joo noob' (with SI, sync bug and a PPU attached to your arse) comments i really have got over it.
We need better defenses, simple. If any real life faction was under attack this way don't you think that defenses would be thought about? However because the runners do not really have direct control over the placement of guards or turrets we turn to KK, GM's or FC's coz they are the guys that are supposed to help with any issues. However they cannot or will not help. Which is ludicrous because it is obvious to most that the TH defenses are absolute toss, especially to ppl like yourself who exploit this.
Disturbed021
30-09-03, 00:32
Originally posted by VetteroX
well, GR to your apt, or plaza 1. NEVER carry twi rares, not ever, or you will lose one.
Gee thats easy for a PE to say:rolleyes: What u carry a Lib and BS (if you have TC) I bet? The rest are drugs and spells?
Its not so easy for other classes, for example;
APUs should carry 2 rares one attack spell (HL for most) and an anti-PPU...errrr Holy AntiBuff Spell. If they dont carry an antibuff and get jumped by a PPU they will be picking a GR shortly.
All of my chars (bar 1 whos out of action) Are FA. Myself and a friend have founded a clan there etc. Thing is im levelling my n00b Pe i get Pked by whoever, fair enuff, I get on Faction chat and theres like 5 runners who say they will help, no response from others ( i accept not all use fac chat). Have u ever tried to defend a place as big as TH with 5 runners? Sure you can camp the GRs but with the endless maze of places to hide in TH, all u end up doing is running between the A and B grs. Theres no NPC guards, and lets face it the bots in TH are hardly a threat to any runner above rank 25. Why not make NC a zone like TH. IM sure every1 would love that. :rolleyes: TH needs a major rework, some proper involvement from GMs to get TH used as a useful area and to encourage more people to Play as FA.
People who want fusion mods HAVE to ask TG runners to get them, teh guards and location of said mods make it very hard to get there if urnot allied to TG. People who want Lserblades etc just stroll into TH knowing that mostof the time they will be unhindered
it didn't help with FA when NAT etc.. became new dawn in twighlight guardian (the pk faction) and FA lost 3/4 of their members. been in FA is hard work cause there are so few caped players now compared to before. i miss NAT :( i liked been in NAT
[TgR]KILLER
30-09-03, 02:09
Originally posted by Wannabe
Why FA don't defend their HQ? Because the clan that was once called "Blue-tech" is no more.
That's why. There aren't any FA clans around and now that the oldest one that actually DEFENDED TH in the good old days is gone, TH is open for attacks from TT and other hostile factions.
// Wannabe
err... BT left.. but we'r there now.. and damn sure we are defending TH as good as we can with some help from allies when we need it.. BT aint FA.. FA is a faction..
Is there any GM's that would like to comment on TH? Do you feel the defenses are adequate if so, why do you feel they are?
Cheers
st0ckman
heh BTSC wasnt much of a defence(just ask another FA clan who moved to CS :p)
laughs and remembers raids on TH when there was NO guards at all mwhahahaha
and TH was _the_ place to PK, not PP but TH.
remembers Raids on TH (was a member of TH clan pure fighting clan :D) and us defending it from almsot any one :P:D
you lot have it easy back in those days we had no faction chat and alot buggier game, be grate full. also i seen some new mobs kicking about for TH with redeemers so jsut keep ur fingers crossedand ur eyes open ;)
NS_CHROME54
30-09-03, 04:32
th is a really hard place to defend. first of all, you have to send someone who can get around without the threat of being killed (either make a LE char real quick, or get a spy w/ stealth, making sure to stay away from the ppu), then you have to organize your force (believe me it gets harder to do this every time, as the pkers sweep all the apt.'s). ppus are essential. you have to go after the tanks, then the spies and pe's, then the ppus last, attacking the apus whenever they threaten you. you have to gr into an apartment (if your apartment isn't in th then don't bother coming). you have to seek out EVERY enemy and kill them, and you have to be on alert for at least another half an hour, running around th and checking the outsides of the entrances and the genereps in between, because the likelyhood of a counter-counter-strike is very likely, especially from tt.
bd's attack daily, though usually with a maximum of 4 runners. tt attack weekly generally, but come in great force. crahn attacks are totally spontaneous, but they also come in large forces, sometimes with bd backup.
all this knowledge i have gained defending th loyally. and i think it needs to stop.
I still say do not add any guds to Th, and cut the guards in TG and MB in half. Its up to the players to defend. Like Xia said, we always get bored and leave or we are pushed out. Its part of the game. The onlything I could agree to would be if KK made a new guard, one that had decent firepower but much less firepower, so attackers could take it down in under a minute ( a minute, or even 30 seconds is CRITICAL in these situations) but it would still be a distraction to pkers.
To be honest why not give the shop keepers better guns, they are perfectly placed to hit ppl coming in from the GR's, just a thought.
Anyway as for defending TH ourselves 24/7 well that is just plain stupid. It may be an idea KK will promote coz they might think it will be another thing to do to avoid capped boredom, however i have better things to do coz i like to make my own fun. Defenses are provided so just provide some more. If you think that players should be defending their own HQ's, bases or even Plaza then take out the guards and the CopBots and make this a pure fps with only aggressive roleplay, then i will probably play another game. Obviously none of this will ever happen coz taking Copbots out of plaza is nearly as ludicrous to KK than increasing defenses in TH.
I think all FA members are asking is that we at least get brought in line with the other bases and get some decent defenses in TH-2.
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
Hmm i wonder how much people like you will bitch if they remove safe zones from neocron. the fact is. people DONT WANT to PK 24/7
Based on the layout of Plaza I it looks like that safe zone is going away soon. :p Let them see how they handle it.
Funny that Plaza I gets souped up with more copbots yet the necroncile has a quote from a Cop saying they didn't want to enter tech haven as the defenses were too strong :lol:
Are u guys still talking about TH-pking on Saturn or on Pluto as well? Seems some of the participants of this thread mixed it up already. :wtf:
btw. Saturn-TH used to be better protected in the old days when there are organized PK-clans arround like HATE and the KNOX. Nowadays any wanna-be PK scums come to TH. It's no more fun defending something if you dont have clear targets.
Well i am personally referring to Saturn but i am assuming that the problem is the same on other servers other than the French server. I would be interested to hear if there are any of the French server users on here and what they think of the new improved Y Rep defenses and if it helps at all?
Oh and a GM opinion would be nice, i know you are out there! :D
enigma_b17
30-09-03, 12:15
all these comments mayb b true or not, but the simple fact of the matter is techhaven needs more defences, not only more, but better ones. Personally id like to c grim chasers with copbot rifles guarding the grs and the entrances :D
i'm on about saturn, and yes i agree with stockman, a GM opinion would be nice.
Originally posted by st0ckman
Well i am personally referring to Saturn but i am assuming that the problem is the same on other servers other than the French server. I would be interested to hear if there are any of the French server users on here and what they think of the new improved Y Rep defenses and if it helps at all?
Oh and a GM opinion would be nice, i know you are out there! :D
Thanks, back on with the opinion from Venus.
1. this is a big change to have the guards with rares somewhat everywhere in TH and provides with an excellent feeling going through TH... good change
2. the regular in and out of PKers in TH has now dropped tremendously with new runners joining FA again
- as an effect of the levelling up of those who suffered the PK
- as an effect of the guards
- as an effect of the discussions between the GM and the major group of PKers
The drawback to the inception of the guards came from the fact that the loot they gave were lvl 3 implants... ppl started to hunt on the guards :rolleyes:
Cheers for your input Rinaldo. :) From your description there seems to be more positives than negatives for putting in new guards and it would be nice to see ppl start joining FA and feeling a bit safer in the 'haven'.
If people are hunting the guards for lvl 3 drops this is not so much of an issue coz some enemy runners will die and some will die with our help. :) People might think twice about coming to TH if they are getting thier belts hacked. Besides surely there is a way of making the guards not drop lvl3 imps etc??
This is the scenario i would like to see in TH. I hope it will be implimented although i am not going to get my hopes up anytime soon.
At this point it would be really good to get a GM's point of view on this. I think there is enough support for changes amongst FA runners and probably some support from the neutral amonsgt us.
st0ckman
I have to agree with VetteroX. The game used to be much more fun before they made the NPC guards @ TG stronger. In the past I played TG and welcomed the attacks from city folk on my home, as the whole of TG would rally and repel the invaders.
@ HumphreY, long time since I heard the names Knox and H.A.T.E. I even had a few good fights with them around TG/TH and TBH, PK clans like these made the game more exciting. You always knew where you stood with a knox :lol:
I have tried to defend TH on my own (a long time ago), and it was a waste of time as almost all FA clans didn't want to know. Don't know if that has changed now, but I might have to try it being hostile faction to FA nowadays.
Originally posted by Archeus
Based on the layout of Plaza I it looks like that safe zone is going away soon. :p Let them see how they handle it.
Funny that Plaza I gets souped up with more copbots yet the necroncile has a quote from a Cop saying they didn't want to enter tech haven as the defenses were too strong :lol:
Well, it seems KK think it's gonna be difficult to handle it as they've slapped about 1000 new copbots on the streets covering every conceivable hole. We cope with this every day in TH. Luckily those lameass security bots cover corridors (not in the actual corridors, but stuck in a door somewhere) :rolleyes: . It goes to show how crap they are when you can take them down with a freezer, tazer or even flamer!
The Neocronicle quote - if only the Cop had actually been into TH and seen the defenses. Rated at "zero" on any scale.
As for all this "defend your own" BS - some of us don't have the time to defend TH 24/7. It's much easier for BD peeps to gank other people as they have nothing to defend. It's so much harder to defend TH than attack it. If you think you're good in a fight, try it from the other angle for a change. It pisses me off when I quit short hunting to come back and find some /40 spy stealthing around and then GR off when someone of equal level comes in. That sort of pker should have hassle from the guards...
Originally posted by Lecko
As for all this "defend your own" BS - some of us don't have the time to defend TH 24/7. It's much easier for BD peeps to gank other people as they have nothing to defend. It's so much harder to defend TH than attack it. If you think you're good in a fight, try it from the other angle for a change. It pisses me off when I quit short hunting to come back and find some /40 spy stealthing around and then GR off when someone of equal level comes in. That sort of pker should have hassle from the guards...
the amount of people i find in the black dragon HQ is amazing and also the secret area i often find mercs leveling of my guards.
BD are getting the entertainment area in the OZ, which is going to need defended soon, so we will see if us BD start whineing about it;)
before BD i was a Merc, and its the biggest pain in the ass to defend against enemies,there may only be one entrance and one genrep, but it doesnt stop Pkers going on nice long Pk runs(though the mercs do a damn good job-at times-of defending the place)which is a lot worse than TH, and there is a lot more noobs leveling at the MB, but most of the mercs just get on with it and defend there base
Ezza you said about the one GR and Entrance to MB and then said it is worse than TH? Confused.
I used to lvl at MB when i was in NEXT and the only people that used to attack MB were TG runners (this may have changed), in fact i was ganked many a time by them. However we just get all the factions that want to do a bit of killing, be it TT/BD/CS/CA/CM(sometimes) and the latest is TG coz some of them think we are now in bed with CM? Which we are not and it is another issue.
I think it is very obvious to most ppl on here that TH is a haven for raiders and PKers, some have even admitted it. MB does not have the same problems no matter how you try to paint it, neither does TG. Even if NC was an anarchy zone, you honestly think any invading faction will get past the copbots and storm bots?
Originally posted by st0ckman
Ezza you said about the one GR and Entrance to MB and then said it is worse than TH? Confused.
I used to lvl at MB when i was in NEXT and the only people that used to attack MB were TG runners (this may have changed), in fact i was ganked many a time by them. However we just get all the factions that want to do a bit of killing, be it TT/BD/CS/CA/CM(sometimes) and the latest is TG coz some of them think we are now in bed with CM? Which we are not and it is another issue.
I think it is very obvious to most ppl on here that TH is a haven for raiders and PKers, some have even admitted it. MB does not have the same problems no matter how you try to paint it, neither does TG. Even if NC was an anarchy zone, you honestly think any invading faction will get past the copbots and storm bots?
just cos theres less entrances to the place doesnt mean its easier, TG or BD all have there own apartments at the base, the entrance is easely camped on the zoneline, the amount of people that die at TH is nothing compared to some of the killing sprees i witnessed at the MB, one occiassion the whole area was littered with about 50 backpacks, unlikely to happen at TH, you may have shit defences but lets face it very few people use it, so although you guys get a lot of PKers through the area, how many people do they get to kill, 2 or 3 wow maybe 5 at tops, head to the MB you can collect 15-20 tags ago
Disturbed021
30-09-03, 17:05
Originally posted by ezza
just cos theres less entrances to the place doesnt mean its easier, TG or BD all have there own apartments at the base, the entrance is easely camped on the zoneline, the amount of people that die at TH is nothing compared to some of the killing sprees i witnessed at the MB, one occiassion the whole area was littered with about 50 backpacks, unlikely to happen at TH, you may have shit defences but lets face it very few people use it, so although you guys get a lot of PKers through the area, how many people do they get to kill, 2 or 3 wow maybe 5 at tops, head to the MB you can collect 15-20 tags ago
Thats cause shitloads of ppl from different factions go to MB. Its called WB farm:p
There really is nothing in TH but FA ppl now and then and newbs trying to level so ya you're right there.
Back in the day tho there was actually quite a few ppl there most of the time. I think the constant PKing/defending caused lots of ppl to leave (and on Pluto internal struggles caused everyone else to leave).
I mean unless you are looking to fight, defending TH is just a major chore. Its not like an OP where you get + to stats or $$ but it certainly feels like defending an OP sometimes.
you maybe missed the point, for every raid you have at tech haven, there is a raid at MB, but at the MB a lot more people die
More and more people are starting to use TH again because it is FA's home and we feel that we should, i guess by the same token we should be prepared to protect it but i will re-iterate that the defences need to be improved. Also the reason why there are more ppl killed at MB is that the TG runners are not just targetting CM runners, they target the majority of the people lvling there. Therefore the amount of CM runners dead will probably be comparable to that of the FA in TH.
I am not going to turn this into a 'my dad has a better car than your dad' conversation coz it's petty. I actually thought most ppl would agree that TH has shite defences and agree that it needs a bit of an upgrade. If anybody has forgotten this then read the original post again.
Still waiting got a KK rep to comment! If even to tell us that you actually don't give two shits what your FA customers think.
enigma_b17
30-09-03, 17:38
Still waiting got a KK rep to comment! If even to tell us that you actually don't give two shits what your FA customers think
u wont.......and
they dont
unfortunately :\
I believe that people who start in a faction like FA/BD/TG/CM should have to live with the consequences and roleplay a little. I know that sometimes it may seem wrong for people to invade your home and kill the runners there, even the n00bs.
What you are suggesting is going to take away the fun of others who go there to PK.
I am not going to say STFU and put your LE in, but I do want to make the point of it's your faction alliance that's putting you at risk. This is why I believe TG was a better place before the guards got a boost (I was TG before they got a boost). This is why as a FA you should be contacting other FA's, hiring other runners...whatever you need to do to protect your home and not rely on KK to do the job for you.
I also agree we should have some degree of PKing, i have never ben against it and i have bn know at times to actually do it. :angel: I actually do not have a major problem with the raids, it is an anarchy zone after all. The problm that i and a lot of FA have is the ease in which TH defences are breached because of the lack of defences. TG defences are quite good with guards around the base that do hurt quite a bit. MB may not be so good on the soldier front but at least they are about in numbers and they actually move!
TH's bots are hopeless, they get stuck and they hardly move and do no damage. Bring us in line with other factions and this will make the raids harder coz they will be getting us the FA runners shooting as well as a guard that might be able to do more than fire a spud gun. No, infact a spud gun would be better...please do a spud mod or water pistol mod to provide amusement to accompany the tea serving mod. :)
Yes, but you would imagine that the role-playing aspect would also work the other way.... like TECHhaven having something very TECHNICAL to defend it. Not bloody lego bots with capguns....
well well...........
http://anastasius.arcangels.net/Hatza1.JPG
http://anastasius.arcangels.net/Hatzah2.JPG
Originally posted by Deicide
well well...........
http://anastasius.arcangels.net/Hatza1.JPG
http://anastasius.arcangels.net/Hatzah2.JPG
Blimey, i reckon thats gotta hurt! :D Seriously tho that seems like a bit of overkill having that many, maybe one in each corner on both levels.
But i think even the bots would be ok if they hit harder and maybe had an electric shock as well. Evil! :)
QuantumDelta
30-09-03, 18:51
Venus.
Nothin to do with KK -----------------__________________----------------
KK could follow their lead on that though.............
KK doesn't like hybrids so technically FA deserve nerfs only :p
Thanks for your input on this one KK, ignorance is bliss, this thread is now dead. I am so glad i wasted my time. o_O
I hope i am not wasting my money as well!! :rolleyes:
[TgR]KILLER
01-10-03, 11:44
Originally posted by st0ckman
Thanks for your input on this one KK, ignorance is bliss, this thread is now dead. I am so glad i wasted my time. o_O
I hope i am not wasting my money as well!! :rolleyes:
KK just reads not reply ;) but yea we need more defences in TH.. a few of those venus guys would do.. but as QD said.. venus aint onder direct KK control ( GM's ) but i heard we were getting the same defences.. or better ones ( DOY supported ) when DOY came... when.. i repeat WHEN doy comes :P
....so we're never getting them then. :D
A quick comparison last night of different faction guards showed the TH "guards" to be most lacking. The city guards are much harder and more numerous.
[TgR]KILLER
01-10-03, 12:12
Originally posted by Lecko
....so we're never getting them then. :D
A quick comparison last night of different faction guards showed the TH "guards" to be most lacking. The city guards are much harder and more numerous.
yea the TH guards are shit atm.. they don't do shit dmg.. only to monks mayby cause i think they do pierce / force ( well looks like that anyway )
Disturbed021
01-10-03, 19:34
Originally posted by [TgR]KILLER
yea the TH guards are shit atm.. they don't do shit dmg.. only to monks mayby cause i think they do pierce / force ( well looks like that anyway )
Thats if the bots don't get stuck in the doors;) :lol:
I heard a rumor somewhere that when DoY comes out all anti-city faction clan HQs are gonna be in DoY? Anyone know anything about that?
Why not put yourself in the pkers shoes? We need nice places to pk. If theres are too many npcs, we CANT. Some nights, I and 1 or 2 others own TH totaly. But most nights, we are eventually pushed out. Pkers pay for this game too, and we DONT want more npcs guarding TH or anywhere else.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Why not put yourself in the pkers shoes? We need nice places to pk. If theres are too many npcs, we CANT. Some nights, I and 1 or 2 others own TH totaly. But most nights, we are eventually pushed out. Pkers pay for this game too, and we DONT want more npcs guarding TH or anywhere else.
I can understand your view, and i wouldnt mind if i could come to NC and PK all your clanmembers who are just trying to build some stuff for others. But i cant do that, so i want what you have. Better defenses. I wouldnt care if they make TH a safezone as long as NC is one.
Xaru
id rather all safezones removed, i mean theres no real reason to keep them is there, if you dont want to get Pk'd keep the lovely little LE in your head that you start with.
id be happy if TG could actually do a raid on the Neocron plaza area against City admin and stuff like that
[TgR]KILLER
01-10-03, 22:42
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Thats if the bots don't get stuck in the doors;) :lol:
I heard a rumor somewhere that when DoY comes out all anti-city faction clan HQs are gonna be in DoY? Anyone know anything about that?
i heard the same. but its kinda crap.. TH is FA and FA is TH.. u can't move it :/ story wise it would be one load of crap if they would.
Originally posted by ezza
id rather all safezones removed, i mean theres no real reason to keep them is there, if you dont want to get Pk'd keep the lovely little LE in your head that you start with.
id be happy if TG could actually do a raid on the Neocron plaza area against City admin and stuff like that
yeah i agree that would be nice; i emailed callash about the same idea (removing safezones in NC when doy hits) but nothing :(
First of, from what i remember on test (i was a dome of york runner along with a few others) We were allied DEFINATELY with TG and FA there was one other and we wernet neutral to anyone. So i guess that even if TH isnt in DoY we will definatly be able to go there and vice versa. You can test his right now in retail, go find some johnny 5s dont shoot em, if your TG or FA u can run amongst them like u would ur own clan! They womt attack. Anyway i dont wanna go of topic so ill go on with the TH defence thing
There was another good example of how shit TH defences are....
Myself and a few other FA runners of various clans were involved in a skirmish with the TT clan Templars, they raided TH and were RPking which i dont mind ots fun and gives every1 the chance to get in Character. SO after being Pwnd i decide to run up into the "Command Circle" a pretty well defended area u might think if u havent been to TH....WRONG TT just ran up there and we had a drawn out fight whilst the FA director just sat and watched lol.
I know for a fact when ive been to TT HQ and raided there u get shot at by some nasty 80/80 *** NPCs with plasma pistols and they hurt.
@ VettoRox sure u need to find places to PK i agree thats part of the game but with Runners not being able to get into NC to attack any1 its hardly viable for us as FA runers to think hey we will go wipe out Plaza 1 whereas any god damn city dweller can raid into our precious TH.
KK really need to arrange a mutually good time for FA members and our Faction GM to come see us at TH and discuss what we want and how we can go about it. At the moment TH is a joke.
Why not put yourself in the pkers shoes? We need nice places to pk.
Thats all well and good, but when you go to the enemies HQ to PK you should expect heavy resistance from guards. It is their HQ after all. In most other factions HQ's that I've tried to get into, that Im an enemy of, its alot harder. Ive tried without a ppu on the test server (switching factions until everyone hated meh=/ ) and in TH I had the easiest time running through. Suffered very little damage overall.
I'm not FA and to be honest I rarely have any need to go to TH, but I do realise that for a faction HQ, their defenses are shite.
You want to PK in a faction HQ? Fine. But by pking in an HQ you should expect heavy resistance from NPCs. In TH that just isnt the case.
However I dont think the guards should be upped as much as they have been on venus. FFS that's just plain overkill!
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