the locked GR's gotta go...

[KidWithStick]

im sorry, i cant help it....i gotta say somthing...

the locked GR's are driving me insane. i cant go ANYWHERE...i litterially can only go to

1)MB
2)TH

neither of which have a high levling place where groups gather.


this crap is killing the game, within the last couple of weeks soooo many people have been complaining about being bored, and litterially 30 people are about to cancle account within the next few weeks because of it. it would improve bordem to atleast let us GR where ever we want.

if you unlock GR's, but still allow clans to GR directly to there OP basment with no SI, it will NOT effect OP fights. i do not care what you say, the locked GR's only make it so a clan goes, "aghhh i dont wanna run 5 zones with 10 people just to attack a shitty OP"

let the fucking clan GR directly to the OP, it will spice things up, let more OP fights accure... PLUS let people fucking get places to level.

i highly suggest that you remove locable GR's ASAP...like...within the week. i wasnt even slightly joking about that many people cancling there accounts in the next few weeks...

shit, ill probably reactivate my account if the locked GR's are taken out, and thats the only change.

PLEASE...PLEASSSEEE remove the locked GR's. PLEASEEE

its putting an end to the game.

EDIT: please vote 5 stars so this gets across to KK...and PLEASE do not make it take a month just to remove the locked GR's...throw it in the patch thats hopefully going to fix the PE bug.

[BlackPrince]

Instead, why not let the owning clan form a "Banlist" of those clans or individuals who cannot GR there, thus allowing neutrals and noobs to go there to level without any hassle?

[Dribble Joy]

Several clans on uranus are being almost being put on KoS because of this.
None can go anywhere, The only way I get to any where is through the non OP grs, El farid, escuador oasis, Th and MB.
Vehicles are NOT an option, I would be nice if they were, but they aren't.
Please, do as the stick wielding kid says.
Let clans/factions (can chose whether factions can or not) gr to the underground, and evertone else to the GR.

[Tazo]

/me votes 1 star

25 vhc for a hovertec aint THAT much, dude... a small price to pay to be able to be anywhere you want in like 5 minutes.

[\\Fényx//]

Just remove the locked GR's... What exactly was the hassle before ?!? A Defending clan can STILL GR into the UG so why locked GR's ?!?

[Tazo]

Originally posted by \\Fényx//
Just remove the locked GR's... What exactly was the hassle before ?!? A Defending clan can STILL GR into the UG so why locked GR's ?!?
because OPs are useless enough as they are already... genrep points are at least something worth fighting for.

[Q`alooaith]

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
I can think of at least 7 puplic GR's.. yes I'm counting MB, TH and TG..

But look at it like this.. with the placment of public GR's you can get near anywhere you need to, MB give's you the north west, TH central area's.. TG the east..

El Farid give's you the northwest..


We don't need more GR's, and if you ask the owning clan most time's they'll let you though if you ask nicly..


Remember, you can go anywhere and hunt anytime you like, but the GR changes should inspire you not to return to the city each time you go out, but to log out in the wastlands and log back in and stay out a bit longer..


Now if op's had always been lockable, then you'd not worry about it, as VHC skill would be the norm, and you'd be used to it..

Give it time, get some VHC skill..

BTW, saturn's world map looked worse than that at some points anti city held almost all the op's, only a strong CM precence near MB forced them back from there, TH also held near the DoY gates.. while near the city was all TG and crahn and others.. things change, find some clans try and form an allance aganst the anti city.. take the op's, don't complain if you don't try.





Thread's only on the second page too... a case of look before you leap maybe?


anyway... GR's are the bane on this game's longlivity, right now since you can't GR everywhere insta fast, you have to run, or drive, and this make's the map bigger by effect, since it's not, warp to point XXX and run one zone to get to hunt spot, it's now GR to YYY run three zones to hunt spot..

You see more of the wastland's, and clan's can defend op's deep in their own faction controled turff more safely..


I like the new GR system, it should have been in froom the start..

[Tazo]

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
I like the new GR system, it should have been in froom the start..
yup, especially since the community is suffering from a bad case of "i want EVERYTHING right f*cking NOW, and i canNOT handle having anything taken away from me!" :p

i wish cdvs advertising would have been better, we would have less shooter players... shooter players only seem to be concerned about killing stuff and having the most personal fun possible (no matter how bad it might be for others)

[.Cyl0n]

fenix i dont want em at my ops .. simple
i like the locked gr idea... everyone can dm someone from my clan asking em to open the repp .. its np.. i did it like 50 times now

not for kid's clan tho... no way

i like blackprinces idea ALOT !
you should be able to set a banlist for all your op gr's

and now go buy a hover kid

.cy

/e voted 1 star...

[BlackPrince]

Originally posted by .Cyl0n


i like blackprinces idea ALOT !
you should be able to set a banlist for all your op gr's





I feel so dirty now:p

[.Cyl0n]

Originally posted by BlackPrince
I feel so dirty now:p

i would add you to it .. dont worry^^
feel better now ? :p

.cy

/e i knew it :D :p

[BlackPrince]

Lol

much

[Shadow Dancer]

99% of the clans selfishly lock down their GRs anyways. It's pretty stupid IMO.


Anyhow their aren't enough ASGs to use the "get a vehicle dude" excuse, and their should be a bit more public grs. But definitely more asgs.

[Q`alooaith]

More ASG's?


maybe each fort or uplink should get their own ASG's.. but not many more than that... def none at lab's and fact's unless they can limit ASG's to only be able to spawn cetain vehical's...

[KidWithStick]

you guys need to think of it like this,

if a player is mad about not being able to GR ANYWHERE, and get very bord very quick, hes going to leave the game...its simple.

now if it goes back to the way it was, that player wont leave the game, and it wouldnt make since for the people defending the idea to leave, since it wasnt always like that and they seemed to never complain about it before.

the fact is theres to many people who just give up very fast, i admit im one of them...and i would have to say atleast 70% of NC players are the same.


i understand the reason why there locked, and i understand the good reasons of them being locked, however there are MANY more bad things that come out of the locked GR's than good things.

[KidWithStick]

and BTW, i can run almost as fast as i would driving a hovertech, so in battle i dont see the point in having to gimp myself just so i can get somewhere 20 seconds sooner...not to mention that theres only like 5 ASG's in the game, and more than half of those are all right by neocron, all within one secotr of each other.

[ichinin]

I agree, i play on saturn and the OP's we can GR to are turned on and off like some friggin pinballgame, i bet CM do that to piss people off.

i got a simpler idea; Allow Neutral and Allies to GR in; Enemies are kept out.. Neat and simple.

Auto-ban feature - If an allied/neutral player shoot a turret or any NPC's (or even plauyers) - Auto add him/her to block list, then have them pay 50K or so to open up that OP again..

[Q`alooaith]

Kid, you don't understand the problem there...


If a new player who's never been able to GR everywhere at will, suddenly gained this abblity that older player's have had in the past, they'd soon feel that the wastland's are not a very big area at all, and leave NC..


Neocron is not held togther by all the vet's, it's kept alive because more people find it, and play it... look at the server population's for proof, a few month's ago saturn was capping out at 300 or so, now 500 or very near at time's...


so if a few old player's leave, fine, if it mean's the game retaines new player's then I'm ok with all the 65's going.. hell I'd not care if the 55's left much...


this game will only grow by adding new face's, and with the GR change's people have more to do, and don't have it so easy, so they might not see all the places in a few month's..

This game live's or die's by how many newb's it can keep.
In this game, it don't realy matter if all the old player's go away, hell it might even improve the game as there'd be less complaining about changed stuff like GR's and crap.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
More ASG's?


maybe each fort or uplink should get their own ASG's.. but not many more than that... def none at lab's and fact's unless they can limit ASG's to only be able to spawn cetain vehical's...


THey don't have to be at op zones.


But you can't deny that the map needs more asgs.


Originally posted by KidWithStick
and BTW, i can run almost as fast as i would driving a hovertech, so in battle i dont see the point in having to gimp myself just so i can get somewhere 20 seconds sooner...not to mention that theres only like 5 ASG's in the game, and more than half of those are all right by neocron, all within one secotr of each other.



Um no way kid. Hov-tec BLOWS AWAY any runners speed. And you can get across a few zones fairly quickly.


But you're right about the asg problem.

[Q`alooaith]

there is a very small ASG problem...


We do not need 100 more ASG's..


TH, there's three around the TH sector's..

TG, there's one at the mouth of TG..


Neocron, three, one for each gate..


MB, one, right outside..


hell there's even one near DoY..


so at least 9 ASG's so far.. all in sane places..

If uplink's gained ASG pannel's then the wastland's would have more than enough... Since the number doe's not matter as much as the placment..

[KidWithStick]

ok now Q`alooaith

compare how many new people came to the game in the last month, compared to how many have been playing since the last 5 months, and then add the fact of how many people have left in the last month.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
there is a very small ASG problem...


We do not need 100 more ASG's..




I don't think it's a small problem. And i never said 100 more ASGs, don't exaggerate. ;)



Originally posted by Q`alooaith
there is a very small ASG problem...


We do not need 100 more ASG's..


TH, there's three around the TH sector's..

TG, there's one at the mouth of TG..


Neocron, three, one for each gate..


MB, one, right outside..


3 near th and 3 near neocron? It seems like a bit of a waste to place them so close then leave such huge gaps elsewhere.



Originally posted by Q`alooaith

If uplink's gained ASG pannel's then the wastland's would have more than enough... Since the number doe's not matter as much as the placment..

I agree it's more about placement.

I also think the desert racetrack should have a GR.


sex

[Q`alooaith]

Originally posted by KidWithStick
ok now Q`alooaith

compare how many new people came to the game in the last month, compared to how many have been playing since the last 5 months, and then add the fact of how many people have left in the last month.


how many people will leave if the GR rule's stay?

How many people that have recently joined will leave if they are changed back?



Simple is, with GR's locked the wastland's are a big area..

With them open it's a small area..

The size does not change, but the time accross it does, and so it feel's smaller, smaller world = less to keep people playing..



So if only 1% of the old pre GR changes player's leave, and we keep only half the new player's, we'll still have gained players.. I think, though it depends' we've lost a lot of old player's already..


These change's must not be taken back.. All changes made now must stick untill they are improved upon.
The only way to improve the GR system is to enlarge the wastland's and let hacker's open GR's for a short time, AkA hacknet...


If it where my game to change, I'd make some alteration's that people would not like, but I'd not back down on any of them..

Better to live the dream for a day, than to live a nightmare for eternerty.

[Benjie]

I made my own thread that could solve this problem. I am not sure if I am allowed to link to my thread. But I will and if a moderater wants to remove the link then fair play. :)


This idea tbh I doubt kk would do. But it would be a sweet event with an amazing conclusion. It would mean you could GR to an always open GR in the centeral watelands, grab a vehicle, and drive where you want to go. Mad Max style.


Anyway here is that link.
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77042
And if it gets removed then the thread is called:
"Story Idea: NEXT respond to locked GR's with a new faction building in central WL."

[KidWithStick]

your not understanding that its not only 1% going to leave. i personally know 4 people alone, personal friends, who are cancling there account in almost direct relation with the GR changes. they said its pointless yo keep playing, they cant go anywhere to lvl, and they cant be good in OP fights because they cant lvl, when theres nothing to do they cant go lvl...etc.

and thats just me. ive also over heard MANY people on saturn saying its getting really lame not being able to go anywhere...and then ending the sentance with fuck this game. fuck kk, or, fuck this im cancling my account.

[VetteroX]

I hate locked Grs. The only people who support the idea are people who own the grs because they are in large clans, or people who can afford 25 vehcile and dont mind crashing at zone lines. A GOOD PE/SPY CANNOT AFFORD 25, OR 17, OR 12 POINTS OF VEHICLE!!! it cant be done! You NEED every point in weapon and agil.

I say add bare minimum, 4 more grs in non op zones. one in F11 for starters, another in like B14 or so, one in F03, and I_10

You also must add more vehicle stations, and nsterad of forcing us to use vehicles for travel, make them useful for hunting, give them a trunk and good weapon, so people who wanna use them for hunting or op wars can, and people who want to actually have good combat skills and running sped can have it and still get around through grs.

[Mantus]

We dont really need that many public GR's. The only two places i can think off are the Race Track and the Swamps. I say the swamps because at the moment there are 4 great leveling caves that hardly any one uses because they are 2 zones from the nearest OP and 5 zones from the nearest public GR. The Race Track would also be great as its close to the Gabanium fields as well as CRP.

[KidWithStick]

if they do not take away the lockable GR's, they need to add seriously atleast 10 more public GR's scattered across the map.

atleast 10, and one needs to be 1 secotr away from CRP =/

[Mantus]

Originally posted by KidWithStick
if they do not take away the lockable GR's, they need to add seriously atleast 10 more public GR's scattered across the map.

atleast 10, and one needs to be 1 secotr away from CRP =/


I think that some veteran players are just too spoiled by the old GR system. At the moment the GR's give clans and factions something substantial to fight for. I don’t think that everything in NC should be so frigin easy. It also put a real value on vehicle use.

The new system is better, I think you should start getting used to it. Walking two or three zones to level where you want is not the end of the world…

[KidWithStick]

The new system is better, I think you should start getting used to it. Walking two or three zones to level where you want is not the end of the world…

no, but dont you think 5-10 is a little to much....?

[Peeping Tom]

get rid of it\ change it
balist sounds nice better atleast...
and ffs add more GR's
K4F

[Mantus]

Originally posted by KidWithStick
no, but dont you think 5-10 is a little to much....?

5-10? The only place that's hard to get too is the CRP, and that’s bugged because that GR is not supposed to be clan controlled. Personally I think it should be taken out and replaced with a Race Track GR cuz that zone doesn’t have an OP in it.

So that’s one GR that defiantly needs to be fixed, though I think that the real issue here is not a lack of GR's but rather a lack of good leveling spots, which can be solved by placing another GR in the swamps. So where do the other 8 GR’s you proposed go?

[•Super|\|ova•]

Ok. Lets see. Back in the Gang times people whined about us closing the cycrow/crp/tezla gr's from most ppl. No one understood why we did that. Then one day cycrow got hacked by SS and our fellow faction members FF took it from SS. They thought it would be a nice idea to let all GR in and run around. As we already knew it wont work as they were hoping for. There was a posts in the citycom forums few times about how the cycrow will be closed again or something like that. Some of the citizens realize that it isnt a hostile act from the owning clan to let all GR in a leveling place like CRP but there's always a huge amount of those wankers who thank them with fucking around, PKing lvling ppl etc.

My point is... if the ppl would REALLY respect the act that the OP owners let even the hostiles to GR in, more GRs would be open. But since we are such a bunch of assholes I don't think that will be ever for real.

[Gotterdammerung]

Speaking from my personal point of view as a player, I like the present GR rules. Let me explain why.

In the not too recent past, everyone complained about how they thought OP's were irrelevent and to may players/clans they were. All a person needed to do was make the circuit of the wastelands once to tag all the GR's then anytime they wanted to do/go anyplace they simply GR'd there. Now this "GR anywhere" also applied to a clan that wanted to take an ops from an enemy clan. Remember all those not-too-long-ago threads about Ninja hacking????? Remember it used to take just 1 hacker? So people didn't like that, hence the ops now have 3 layers and need 3 different hackers. Still, an opposing clan could GR right to whatever ops they wanted to take via the existing system and STILL hack the ops.

Now, they have made OP's and OP owning relevent again. Previously it was akin to leaving your front door open and unlocked with a sign saying you weren't home and anyone who walks by can come in and take what they want. Now, if a clan wants to take an ops, they actually have to put some forethought into planning, GR'ing to a neutral location or friendly OP's and then making the assault. In other words, they've made it so you have to work a bit for your prize now. They even toughened up the armor on the vehicles and made the tanks punch harder and be a viable option in ops taking.

As far as just exploring the wastes, vehicles are one of the best aspects of the game. If you wanna go to a swamp cave to level, you pickup your bike at the Mil base, ride to the one near Jankins lab, level to your hearts content and if when you emerge your bike has despawned you walk to the GR and GR back to the base. Pertty easy huh ?

From a leveling standpoint let me put it this way. City factions have always had the best early leveling place there was, Outzone and Industrial were godsends. On top of all that there are even the agressor cellars. Once you've made it to the point where the cyclops in the storage halls or at the bunker aren't enough then you should be amply ready to handle a short ride/run from a public/neutral/friendly GR to whatever place you want to level at

This game is an MMORPG with fps aspects and any personal choice you make with your character is just that, personal. If you want to have 25 VHC to drive you'll have a great time driving the wastes and you'll still be good at pvp, if on the otherhand you choose not to have the vhc, then thats the choice you made and you'll do alot of running and see the wastes from a different perspective, but the bottom line is there is no right or wrong, it's a personal choice. It is an MMORPG though, not a CS server and not everything can be granted a free ride, some things you'll have to work for. It is part of the whole of the mmorpg and I'm for anything that gets people out and exploring the wastes.

*as I said, the above is my personal view*

[Benjie]

I like GR's as they are just becuase vehicles will need to be used more, and with the Vehicle boosts and new Garages it will push VHC into the foreground of the Wastelands.

100% perfect as it is at the moment.

[___T-X____]

First of all thanks for getting involved with the thread Gott.

Yes, the community does have some responsibility in making the Ops more relevant - however, we've give it a go, and most people dont like it.

The reality is :-

You cant get around - meaning less variety, less leveling, etc. Only last night the clan I was in on Pluto was bored, so we said lets go leveling at CRP - we tried it and Locked. SO where do we drive from N-C ? No thanks.

Now, if your a smaller clan and you take an Op, u cant keep it. Because when starts to get hacked back. The fuckers all camp outside the Under Ground and Barrel, Para and Moonstrike it, so by the time you Zoned due to syncing - your dead.

Previously you could GR to the nearest, more tactically best GR close by, and mount a counter strike with allies.

On Pluto, a TG clan have openned an City Admin division so that they can abuse the GR rule when its been left open for for CA allies to take the op, then get TG to GR in and take the ops in the sector - its a joke.

I say keep the Hack rule but maybe reduce it to 2, and scrap the Locking GR rule.

@Benji - why dont you try Rerolling ? and not putting your self in a big clan and see how you get on...100% perfect, my arse

[Benjie]

The only reason you complain is because vehicles still arn't fully implamented. They are still being sorted out. The idea is that you drive where you want to go.

Gene replicators are for PvP at outposts. Thats the way it is now. :)

___T-X____, I have played Neocron for about 10 months. I know Neocron quite well thanks. Your clan should get more Vehicles.

[___T-X____]

The only reason you complain is because vehicles still arn't fully implamented. They are still being sorted out. The idea is that you drive where you want to go.

Dont talk shit mate, your comment doesnt hold water.

The Hovertech has been reduced in speed, making the faster choice of vehicle a less appealing option.


Gene replicators are for PvP at outposts. Thats the way it is now.

Then put TH, The Canyons, MB and NC next to each other, with ALL the places to level just outside, and all your 'PvP' Ops (lol) as far away from NC etc as possible.

Why dont you just Reroll Benjie, and stay unclanned ? Try Black Dragon on Pluto and see how much _fun_ you can have...

[Gotterdammerung]

When i was playing beta, everyone was drooling for the vehicles, we were all hoping to get a taste before beta ended and when we did get them everyone was thrilled. I'm dismayed that such a great aspect of the game, something thats so much fun has become underused.

And in my personal opinion, getting the clan together, jumping on your hovertecs and zipping out to a place to level is a great group thing to do. It's the kind of thing that makes clans have that cohesive feeling.

[Lanigav]

The whole concept is flawed.

Okay, so locked GRs keep hostiles (or everyone) out to protect their op. That's all well and good.

However, people say you can just grab a vehicle and get to where you need to go with very little time. In other words, 3 hackers can just grab their hovertecs and head over to an op and hack it with minimal loss of time anyways. What difference does 3 seconds or 5 minutes mean? The op holders response time will still be the same, as will the effeciency of the attacking team. The only real difference is that they won't be able to instantly GR back in, which is stupid anyways because you'll have a lot of SI and basically be a sitting duck.

The real problem is this: effective standalone base defense by and large simply doesn't exist. Turrets are strong enough, but any tank with an AoE weapon can blast them to smithereens without a single worry because of walls, terrain, or distance. As a result, there need to be AoE turrets as well, so they can still do damage through walls and terrain. The ability to place them directly next to the Op terminal would be another major plus as well. There also needs to be a minimum distance required for you to hurt a turret, so that tanks and spies can't just snipe them with a Silent Hunter or Moonstriker. Along with that, there needs to be an option for the turrets to act defensively (such as attack only when the op is under attack), so people just passing by to hunt won't get utterly destroyed the second they get near it.
In short, better base defense = no need for silly locked GRs.

That aside, I do like the concept of getting a bunch of your friends in vehicle and heading out to a big leveling spot, and possibly using those vehicles as an offensive tool while hunting. However, what happens if you die and you don't have a PPU around? You've gotta walk allllllllllllllllllllllll the way back on your own. Also, a fair few of us still get numerous sync errors and crashes, often with some sort of uber mob right on the edge of the zone ready to kill us will we sit defenseless with a synch screen or a fatal error window. So not only does it take a lot longer to get where your going (along with the frustration of having to constantly relaunch the game), but your chances of getting unfairly killed are high as well.

Until those issues are sorted out (adding more non-op GRs for backpack/belt recovery and getting back to where you need to go without having to walk an insane distance, and of course, fixing the stupid crashes and sync errors), vehicles will never really reach their full potential.

[___T-X____]

Yes it is Gott, but all our Hovertech's keep getting blown up, and its a really rough ride driving 10 zones from N-C to get to CRP, or 15 Zones to go look for Kazi soldiers.

We all have driving skills in the clan im in, but the distance is to far. Half the time you zone into a Grim, DOY, Y-commander.

[KidWithStick]

5-10? The only place that's hard to get too is the CRP, and that’s bugged because that GR is not supposed to be clan controlled. Personally I think it should be taken out and replaced with a Race Track GR cuz that zone doesn’t have an OP in it.


now i know that you know nothing about the subject.

when a clan owns a OP the WHOLE SECTOR is blocked for anyone to GR.

CRP is not bugged. and yes its a hard place to get too, and also basically the only good place to level. so do you see my point now?

[Delloda]

the best fix would be create more non-op GR's.

[KidWithStick]

And in my personal opinion, getting the clan together, jumping on your hovertecs and zipping out to a place to level is a great group thing to do. It's the kind of thing that makes clans have that cohesive feeling.


maybe you got one of those perfect computers built by reakktor to play there game perfectly...but in reality when a clan gets like...5+ people on vehicles, its almost gauranteed that someone will crash every secotor. not just from the sycnings, but people crash just from standing still looking at a wall.

and Lanigav made a very good point. if going everywhere on vehicles is so easy and fast, then wtf's the point of locking the GR's. its obvously no biggie for you guys, so what makes a difference.

and BTW, the main point i was trying to get across about GR locking is people are leaving the game simply because they cant go no where. i dont care who you think you are, you cant tell me different. go stand in plaza and mention sotmhing about not being able to GR anywhere and your bored and listen to 10+people jump in on the conversation saying they agree, or there extremely bored too, or there cancling there account because there so bored from not being able to go anywhere.

is keeping a dumb thing like GR locking in the game more important to the game than losing customers? dont forget...when someone leaves it causes a chain reaction. for example when i leave i know a couple of my friends who i always play with are leaving too....

[trigger hurt]

Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
When i was playing beta, everyone was drooling for the vehicles, we were all hoping to get a taste before beta ended and when we did get them everyone was thrilled. I'm dismayed that such a great aspect of the game, something thats so much fun has become underused.

And in my personal opinion, getting the clan together, jumping on your hovertecs and zipping out to a place to level is a great group thing to do. It's the kind of thing that makes clans have that cohesive feeling.

My opinion about why vehicles are so underused is probably the same as several other people here and I know 5 or 6 people I play along side on Saturn.

Over-Specilization.

KK made the decision to force any character to over specilize in one form or another of combat to even have any hope at being decent at PvP. I have a better idea than adding ASG's or more public GR's.

Let's put the TL's of the weapons back the way they were. Let's make it so to get maximum damage on a weapon, I don't have to put every available point I have into pistol, heavy or rifle combat...or apu/ppu either. I'm not great at numbers, but with a TL 91 liberator, I need close to 180 pistol combat to cap frequency/damage on it.

There is no possibility to have multiple skills and be truly effective. I'm sure there are cases where the players skill makes up for the lack of sub-skill points assigned, but if you want an edge over that tank with a capped cursed soul, you need to have a capped weapon and decent runspeed.

Those 25 points are 5 points in pistol/rifle combat on the top end, or some very needed points in Agility or Athletics. Either that, or make t-c affect damage/frequencey or range of a tech weapon...it's really friggin boring using only a liberator or pain easer because you can't spare the points to put into T-C without being slow as a snail.

[Doc Holliday]

OK im with kid on this one. The gr rules suck if u are in a small faction and struggle to hold ops. u cant be held responsible for a number of intangible reasons ie your faction is tiny ( black dragon on uranus is an example ) or u dont have enuff skilled pvpers in the faction to take ops ( ca on uranus :p j/k ) or simply u dont wanna be part of a huge clan etc. What happens when u go to take an op and u try an gather a group of clans allies and 3 major clans turn up to oppose u and u get beat? where are the neutral grs to rally to.......................... we tried to take crp back the other night a force of 15 to 20 got beaten down in just such a way. loads more support on the other side. losing is cool but having no gr to gr to short of nc is fucking rediculous.


KK change the gr rules so they cant be locked FOR NOW. then implement some neutral grs in diff zones so people can get around and lock em again and then see how many people moan. not all clans are pvp. not all are good but try and avoid the situation cropping up on uranus where one faction controls the map due to 2 clans pretty much who claim they got skills yet any opposition is offered to them they first off make out they got 3 ppl in the ug then swarm u with the other major clan plus a couple of other smaller Lap dog clans they brought for cannon fodder. it will piss people off and trust it already is. im thinkin about a move to pluto to see whats what over there cos its all gettin far too political and frankly lame due to the gr rules AS THEY ARE. Failing that it could be a move out to another game.

[Dribble Joy]

I think GRs should be only lockable to enemies and possibly neutrals.
That and add, as said by several, more public GRs. Desert racetrack should have a fuck off big vehicle station (not garage, a station, big fucker like a English railway station, big domed roof and loads of bays.)
The public GRs should have an ASG each.
CRP shouldn't be opened to public, as what would the point of locking the OP be?
Lowering the cap lvls on guns/getting rid of or reducing TC will help.
I WANT to use my hovertech (it needs to be faster though.) but I 'can't'.

[KidWithStick]

CRP shouldn't be opened to public, as what would the point of locking the OP be?

i thought that the reason you lock the GR's is so an attacking clan just GR straight to the OP.

now its suppose to make it so people cant level? thatis EXACTLY what the problem is.

i got a capped tank, i dont need to level. however LOTS of people do, and they cant. they ARE eventually going to leave.

[KimmyG]

MB,TH,Crest Villiage,outzone station,escador village, el fadrid villiage lots of places to go. All I feel that is needed is to add GR's at race track battle dome and maybe catlock.

[KRIMINAL99]

IMO people just need to have at least enough vc to use one vehicle. B4 you didnt now you do. Its not a huge deal until there is a pker where you are going. And thats a good thing because it means that if a faction has taken over an area of the map, they can level there with much less fear of being attacked by random enemy faction members. As far as clans making their grs clan only, thats why warzones allow you to kill anyone.. A clan only OP is a perfect invitation for faction allies to raid the OP.

I think it might be cool if factions had tighter allegiences, so allied clans couldnt hack each others OP's and all OPS could not be set to clan only.

I also think that all World Map GR's should be removed, but then all factions should have access to high level dungeons like tg does. They wouldnt have any special items like bq or storm lasers, but they would allow people to level pretty much to cap. Then all special dungeons would have to be fought for between clans. Remeber when DOY comes out everyones gonna be limited to their own areas.

[Berzerker]

I like the GR's as they are now. Makes travling fun. Makes for interesting political situations to.

I remember Beta when one of the biggest crimes of a clan. Was to booby trap the Gr's with turrets. So every body would gang together and force the offending clan out of there fortress.

So Kid if you don't like the fact that some clan has locked down there Gr's. Just ask em nicely to open them. If they won't, Go and kick there arse, an take there OP:)

There is a problem moving an attack force around though. With all the veh, synche bugs and stuff, half the time yur forces end up spread all over the place, an that most of the public gr's are buged in some way. You still end up in the middle of mobs at Escodor and you cannot gr out from El farid. So I agree that they really need to fix some stuff. These small things can couse a lot of frustration.

[alig]

Originally posted by Tazo
/me votes 1 star

25 vhc for a hovertec aint THAT much, dude... a small price to pay to be able to be anywhere you want in like 5 minutes.

The guy from uranus allied to the clans that get together for sex every week in the pussy club that can Gr to any GR he wants to saying 'No' to this......hmmmm i wonder why, i wonder!! :rolleyes:

[Q`alooaith]

I understand why dictatactor's shoot people who have diffrent view's to their own...


Kid, you know four people who are going to quit because of the GR change's... I know ten new player's that are going to stay because of the GR changes.



The Vehical's didn't get a look in before unless you where out on a GR taggin run, which you only do when your relativly low level.. Now vehical's are an integeral part of the game. If you can't spare 25 point's of VHC find somone who can spare enough for a jeep or car and level with them...



A good PE can spare 25 point's for a hovertech, because a Good PE will not be so reliant on their setup and capping damage on their weapons.

All my char's have some vhc skill's, some high enough to use trike's, which are currently the highest vehical's in game..

Are any of my char's gimped? maybe 5 point's or damage, but I'm good enough to make up them 5 point's and I can drive out and level anytime..

[Jakobe~Ezthrel]

Nah i think they rock. I like being able to only GR to major communities and have to walk 2 hours to get somewhere.

Sometimes I come across the occasional vehical or person which I catch offguard. Its fun.

[KidWithStick]

Kid, you know four people who are going to quit because of the GR change's... I know ten new player's that are going to stay because of the GR changes.


no, you mis-read. i said i personally know, in real life, 4 people who will end up cancling there account because of this. i have over heard 20x saying there going to just from over local chat.


and another reason why new players dont seem to mind is because they know hardly shit about the skill system, and the fact that you need every point in only like 2-3 things to be reasonably good in PvP, so they have no problem spending 30 points into VHC, id rather use those points for agility on my tank/monk and agility/TC on my PE/spy

whatever though, just remember if you see the population get even lower than it is now, and you ask people why there leaving/getting bored and they tell you that one of the reasons is because they cant go no where... maybe youll see then.

[QuantumDelta]

Heh, SSC was dead set on leaving their GRs open, however a group of people decided to abuse that...

Since then, we've had it set to faction only, and will open it when people ask.

If a ban/safe list were available, we'd use that, a kos list for our turrets, and a block list for our GRs (or even same list) and an allies list of people who can always use it.

it's not actually the control of the ops, for most, it's the degree of control...

I don't really know, I wanna keep emmerson and chester open, to allow Researchers and Constructors to work there, however people continue to abuse this, the moment the settings are switched.

....So we just stopped switching them except in cases of "for a few seconds so I can use it to go hunt." or "on my epic."

Sigh.

[Smugly]

Personally I've decided to sod it. Been playing Planetside for the past week and now I don't see the appeal of Neocron at all. I'm sorry, but crap like GR lockdown simply made the game unplayable for me. So I don't want to play any more. I'm one of the people Kid described. It was okay when friendly groups ruled pluto. Now they don't. And frankly I do not give a shit anymore. Combined with several other factors, I fully expect not to be resuming my subscription this month.

And to that moron screaming "You want everything on a plate". How about I'd like SOMETHING on a plate? I'm not even getting that. I can't just spawn an army. I can't lead troops if there are none fo lead. I can't have a soldier ready to force the GR's open when I want them and I can't see the point. It'll be the same crap tomorrow night where I'll have to force open the GR's again.

[Drexel]

I had a spare hour at home the other night, & for the first time in a year I did not log onto Neocron.

Because I know if I logged in theres a 95% chance i could not get to where I wanted & have a decent session.

Something needs to be done, keep it simple, leave the GR system as it is but put a public GR at the Racetrack Garage & a new Garage at El Farid and this would solve a shitload of problems. A public GR & Garage near Regents wouldent go astray either.

Simple.

@ KK, my girlfriend thanks you for the hour i was able to spend with her instead. ;)

[ghandisfury]

Before they open up the GRs, a few other things need to change (imo).

#1 they need to move VHC from dex to intel. PEs and Spies lose out on to much by specking for a hovertech (the only usable low level vehicle).
#2 Defending clans need a choice of Genrepping to UG or the actuall GR. They should not be locked down to the UG if they decide to defend thier OP.

I have made another list of things that I feel need to change, they are here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77003) if you care to read them

[OTIS]

the reason VHC's arnt an option is because when u travel u can go through about 2 or 3 (sometimes more on a good day) zones an crash...then guess what...while ur double clicking the nc icon again there is a WB or Grim blasting ur ass on the other side...come in with ur legs broken and no VHC in site...your dead...dont even say that hasn't happend. Im not bias at all in this GR matter i agree and disagree with both sides i'm just saying that the VHC excuse is dumb and shouldnt be talked about anymore

[El Barto]

I'm not to bothered about it, running around the wastes to get to places isn't that hard, but then I am a Gen-Tank so am prity fast, might have some thing to do with it. I think it was a good idea by KK, because it should get people to start using driving as a trade skill, which hasn't happened yet, but I think would make alot of cash if some one did take it up as a trade skill and let every one know about it.

[Drexel]

Its not the moving accross the zone thats a problem (although 3 zones is the most youd want to run).

Its the god-dammed syncronising time between zones & the potential for a crash, each zone takes me about 15 seconds to syncronise if i cross the map MB > canyons thats 12 zones = 180 seconds = 3 minutes ive sat there looking at a syncronising screen.

Then every 3rd zone I come off my vehicle & have to remount, & every zone I also lose the momentum built up in the prevoius zone so if im doing mountains (hovertech) i cant clear the slope usually.

And usually every 10th zone i just lose my vehicle completely. Not to mention theres a shit load of mobs that can kill a middle level character in 2 shots, so you drive very slow (walking speed) to avoid these.

Vehicles are not convienet for more that 3 zones, any further I just dont play until theres a GR available.

Maybe if there was an option to preload the next zone (would slow down PC alot) then vehicles MIGHT be an option. At the moment I just change my factions to match where I like to hunt. And i dont like to do this as I am the founder of a clan & like the RP aspect & want to stay loyal to one faction.

My characters are Pro-City however I feel TG has an unfair / uneven advantage as the canyons are the best place to level & rare hunt(dont tell me about everywhere else, ive done them all & they dont compare). So I am forced to 'switch' to a faction I dont politically agree with just to further my characters.

Its not that I want everything right now, but the truth is I have a life & can usually only play an hour here & there & an hour is not long enuf given our current transport system to do any thing meaningful, so at the moment I dont bother & go do the dishes instead.

We need more public GR's with Garages attached, & we need leveling / rare hunting areas within or very near the city.


And we need them VERY SOON. :(

[BiTeMe]

I do think the game is quite buggy for using vehicles across zones but I have yet to loose my bike because of this. I don't think we need loads more public GR's, just ASG's by the existing public GR's and maybe 1 or 2 more GR's to help fill the gaps in the map would be good.
Since most of the GR's have been locked to me (because I am in a minority faction) I have explored MUCH more than I ever used to. I would however like it if vehicles can not be destroyed if you are nowhere near them though, as it can get expensive and doesn't promote exploring. Maybe an option to send the vehicle back to the garage when you dismount, and not have to be at an ASG to do it would fix this.

[Vampire222]

hes rite, small factions get massively raped in the ass cause of this... either make crp open ALWAYS and some other hunting spots too... or remove the system completely, ktnxbye

[Deighton]

The GR thing needs to stay up! Know why?

Because,...


this rule upgrades the worth of Vehicles, and the need for runners (low to mid levels) to pack together travlling the wastes! I don't know, if anybody of your were playing NC at the GER launch, but those early days were the best, because NOONE was high level AND everybody entering the wastes WERE in insane danger. So going from NC to MB or where those days, you needed to pack together an look out for your nexts plas ass, Because when he was eaten from a big spider, you were surely the next, NOONE was at this stgae powerfull enough to get along easily with those mobs.

So, in these days, the GR rule ensures, that noone can go to everywhere quiet easily! And that is a good rule. If I were a Mega Company in the future and i had some sorta GR next to my facility, i would definetly NOT let anybody materialize NEAR OR NEXT TO IT. If anybody wants to get there, HELL LET THEM WALK AND RISK THERE ASSES! Don't you see, that this rule forces you to use some game enviroment, like vehicles? Or call for a Merc to look out for your ass? This rule boots RPG massivly. It even makes NC harder to deal with. TO be honest, ok i am not playing anymore, but enjoyed this rule. Because the easy days were over!

I can also remember the days, when we rolled out from MB with a large Convoy of tanks and Jeeps to take an OP! We rolled through six or 10 zones, to sneak to it. We made a real event of it. But today the "ladies and gents" more likely would spawn from the GR right next to the OP Term, to have it nice and easy.


See the advantages of this rule. OK, there are still bugs in the game driving you insane but using alternatives. The car does not spawn in the next zone, you get a fatal and spawn somewhere else, your escort gets a fatal and so on and so on and so on.

When those bugs are finally fixed, believe, this is the best they implemented in the game!

And for fucks sake, stop whining.


/EDIT

Besides, the clan can open the GR if they want, they even get a reward from every runner, using the GR. SO every OP owner got the choice:

1. Money and possinly and direct GR attack via GR (wrong, lots of money if the GR is next to a good level spot)
2. Close the GR and get nothing.

Laughed out loud as i read, that Clans were put on KoS on Uranus, as they kept up GR's locked. What a giant sea of smoking elephant shit. Clans and runner putter a Clan or members of a clan on KoS as they can't use a specific GR HAVEN'T UNDERSTOOD anything about the game. Hey, wake up you easy consuming Kiddies. As something begins to take some effort, it is WHINING TIME! I can't get to XYZ *BWAHAHAHAHAAHUUUUU* and level *BWAHAHAHAHAHUUU*!!! You are KoS!

And now we imagine: The runner whining and standing up to his bneck in tears is a CA runner, wanting to go to a TG held OP, next to a good level spot!

What the fuck you imagine? That is so damn right! Hey, when you set this TG clan on KoS you are even doing RPG. I just found by coincidence a bright side of the medal *HOSIANNA*!!!! But if the TG op was a TT OP, this is going suck wanker-like! That's it is, why the kids leave! They all want i nice'n'easy these days. If something takes effort, hell I am off. When i read along here it makes me sometimes feel hell sick. So damn good posts are really found rarely!

[KidWithStick]

i was playing on saturn last night, the GR to CRP was finally open...


so i went with my APU and put in a LE with a group that was already there...

that was the msot fun ive had in neocron since they put the fucking GR lock thing in the game...i actually stayed on and played for a few hours, instead of 5-10 minutes....


this just goes to show you how much of a difference the GR's have in this game.

[DigestiveBiscui]

the closed GR idea is good, but not all GR's closed at once

i was thinking, and an idea popped up where a clan could have a certain number of GR's they are allowed to close....say 3, the rest have to stay open

Then they can keep there best Factory, lab and/or fortress/uplink closed, so enemy clans cant gr in and take it, and the other GR's they own have to be open

[Deighton]

I think a small solution can also be some "public" GR's. Those GR's could be located next to a ASG. I would recommend, that those public GR's shouldn't be to safe.....